"Please answer reasonably.  I refuse to talk in circles, or play games.  How about a real discussion?"

Ollie refuses to say anything except post enigmatic proof texts that do nothing to prove his case.

But he can do nothing else since his sect has no logical reason for existing, and indeed contradicts the very Bible it claims to follow to the tee.

Why should anyone listen to the campbellites "church of Christ"?  Which "church of Christ"?  There are several campbellite sects, all claiming to be to only church of Christ  containing  the only Christians, refusing fellowship, and all hurling proof texts at each other.
 
 

"The Lord's church worships in spirit and in truth - John 4:24"

What version of your paper and ink idol are you qouting Ollie?

My Bible does not mention the Lord's Church in Jn 4:24

"God is spirit and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth"

How does one worship in spirit and truth anyway Ollie?  Do you sit silently and meditate, since doing anything else would involve the "flesh?"

You are not a member of "the Lord's church" anyway, you are a member of the Fundamentalist campbellite sect.

You may as well lay off with your out of context proof texts, you are only impressing yourself and perhaps your fellow fundies.

Ollie, interesting proof text, but it proves nothing.

You see we who are Orthodox Christians worship and serve God alone.

Whilst you Campbellite sectarians worship and serve a paper and ink idol.

"Don't put a question mark where God puts a period."

Sorry Ambassador, but that is an enigmatic statement, at least to me.

Could you expand or clarify what you are trying to say?

[real]

"The church of Christ has never been in need of restoration.
It has been since the day of pentacost as related in Acts 2."

That is correct of the real church of Christ, but not of the Fundamentalist Sect you belong to that took on the name, but not the identity of Christ's Church.  It did not exist before 1906 Ollie.


"Preaching of the truth of God instead of men's religion is what was missing."

Nonsense, the truth of God was always taught in the real church.  Your dichotomy "from the Bible =s from God, not from the Bible =s form humans or 'men" is a false dichotomy.  The real church made and preceeded the Bible not the other way around as you have it, your portion of a verse out of context proof text aside.

And of course the Bible is still not God.

Folks,  Ollie is a member of the Protestant Fundamentalist denomination that calls it'self THE church of Christ.

(as in one and only)

The reason I know this is that I was raised in the same denomination and I am very familiar with the rhetoric they employ.  (also Ollie has posted links to Campbellite AKA cofC web sites).

They beleive that the Bible (NT only) provides a blueprint to "restoring" the original church back into existance after it became "totally apostate" at almost the very beggining and dissapeared to be replaced by the RCC.  Orthodoxy is a mystery to them, mostly they are not aware of it's existance.

The "blueprint" must be followed exactly to the tee, or one will go to hell.  This is called "patternism".  Anything not "authorised" in the NT is condemned, such as candles, vestments, icons and musical instruments.

The coC Campbellites have existed less than 100 years and are a schism from the Christian Church (disciples of Christ).  They began breaking away when the DoC began installing organs, and other "unauthorised innovations" such as inter-congregational organisations to fund mission work.

Ironically enough, the Christian Church (DoC) founded by Thomas and Alexander Cambell and Barton Stone, began as an effort to unite all Christians into one body, but has splintered into several denominations over such earth shattering issues as whether to have Sunday-school classes, or whether to use a common chalice for the grape juice on communion or seperate mini-glasses.  The congregation of my childhood actually divided over whether it was "scriptural" to build a social hall with a kitchen on church bulding premises.  The two resulting "churches of Christ" now refuse to have anything to do with each other, or even recognise each other as Christians at all.

Of course Ollie will deny all of this, especially he will deny (again) that he is a member of a denomination, just THE Church.  They think that by calling themself THE church of Christ, they become the church of Christ.

To be fair not all campbellites are quite as arrogant as Ollie.  Some will admit to the possibillity of Christians being in "the denominations" (everyone but them).

I voted for consubstantiation, but that only comes closest to expressing my postion on the Holy Eucharist.  There was no really appropriate choice in the poll for me.

Pastor Tom, am I correct in thinking the the Lutheran church also does not beleive in con..., even though the term is often applied to Lutherans by outsiders?

For me, Jesus "said this is my body and blood" and that is enough, I take him at his word without delving into the philosophy of Aristotle with it's talk of substance and accidents.

For those of you that believe in symbolic-only communion, how does "do this to remember me" erase "this is my body and blood", or change it into this is not my body and blood?

 

Ollie, your string of uncommented on proof texts do not impress me very much.

Your dumb act, and arrogance combined with false modesty
impress me even less.

How about honestly addressing the comments that Kerygma and I have made?

 

Pastor Tom, I thought your first post to this thread was very good, although a bit difficult to comprehend.

Thanks

[real]

There is a Protestant Fundamentalist DENOMINATION that calls itself "the church of Christ" and is not.

Ollie you can act dumb all you want to, but you forget that I to was raised in the Protestant Fundamentalist sect you belong to, I am very familar with all the rhetoric it uses, and none of that changes the fact that it is a protest denomination, and not THE CHURCH OF CHRIST  no matter what name it chooses to call itself

Only familiar with the denomination, "The United Church of Christ".
Do not know of a denomination that calls itself "the church of Christ".

That's odd since you a member of it and have provided links to sites published by the "church of Christ" denomination.


Only know of the true church of Christ as revealed in the Bible.

Sorry but the sect yoou beleong to has little to nothing to do with the REAL church of Christ as revealed in the Bible

It is very easy to establish this fact.

The real church of Christ, was founded in 33 A.D.

True

The protestant denomination that stole the name was founded in the late 19th to early 20th century, the official date it appeared in the US religious census was in 1906.

Not familiar with this denomination or the given data, so cannot speak here.

Again you are fooling no one since you are a member of it, it might be a good idea to familiarise yourself with the history and background of the denomination you "placed membership" in.  But again I am sure you are already familiar with this, and are just continuing your "dumb" act

The real church of Christ was founded by Christ himself,

True

 

the denomination using that name was founded by dissadent members of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) over the issues of organ music and missionary funding organisations, and other "unauthorised, unbiblical innovations", the DOCs were in turn founded by Alexander and Thomas Campbell, and Barton Stone in the early 19th century.

True, many of these denominations have practices not found in God's word. Not familiar with the so called "founders".
How can any man found a church that has already been established by God through His Son Jesus Christ? Entrance to it is only through obedience to Jesus Christ.

Perhaps you are getting my point after all.  Human beings or "men" did not establish the REAL church of Christ, but they did establish the Protestant denomination that the Protestant denomination you belong to schismed from,  whether you acknowlege that fact of not does not make it any less the truth

The REAL church of Christ was founded in Jerusalem,

A truer statement would be established when Peter preached and those that heard the good news of Jesus Christ, and were pricked in their hearts, repented of their sins, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were added to the church such as should be saved.

The only difference in our statements is that yours is much longer and contians a charectoristic quote from the idol you worship

the campbellite denomination was founded and is still for the most part limited to the deep south of the USA.

Cambellites are as unscriptural as orthodoxy. They can not be found in the Bible. However I donot know what a campbellite is, only know it is not a scriptural reference for God's people.

While is dissagree with you as to the "unscriptural" nature of Orthodoxy, as well as the need to get permission from the Bible for everything we do or say, if anything is "unscriptural" it is the Campbellite sect, of which you are a member, I know you are continuing your "dumb" act.  But if you really don't know what a Cambellite is, take a look in  the mirror, or look around Wednesday night when you go to church and you will see many more Campbellites

The campbellite sect claims to "restore" the first century church which supposedly "apostacised" itself out of existence when it ceased to follow the Bible as God.  Of course this too is impossible since the Bible was not followed as God by the first century church, it could not have since the Bible was not formed into one volume  until the year 390, long after the church and Christianity had supposedly gone into "total apostacy" and ceased to exist.

If they refered to themselves as campbellites, they were not Christ's church!
The New Testament Church in the first century had holy men inspired of God delivering God's word in person just as it is written for us today. This word is complete and claims itself to be all sufficient for the man of God to be thoroughly furnished unto good works.

{quote]To put it bluntly Ollie, you cannot "restore" a body which never esisted to begin with.

Christs Body has never been in need of being restored. It has been since the day of Pentecost as related in Acts 2.

What has been missing since the apostate, paganistic, traditions of men, church took over is the good news of Jesus Christ to be preached in truth, not adulterated, and people obeying it so once more they could be added to the true church such as should be saved. With this came a visible assembly of the church as Christians are told to assemble together.

I am not even going to bother to respond the the rest of your silly dumb act,  if you are unwilling to debate on an honest basis, why do you even bother comming here?

[real]

There is a Protestant Fundamentalist DENOMINATION that calls itself "the church of Christ" and is not.

It is very easy to establish this fact.

The real church of Christ, was founded in 33 A.D.

The protestant denomination that stole the name was founded in the late 19th to early 20th century, the official date it appeared in the US religious census was in 1906.

The real church of Christ was founded by Christ himself, the denomination using that name was founded by dissadent members of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) over the issues of organ music and missionary funding organisations, and other "unauthorised, unbiblical innovations", the DOCs were in turn founded by Alexander and Thomas Campbell, and Barton Stone in the early 19th century.

The REAL church of Christ was founded in Jerusalem, the campbellite denomination was founded and is still for the most part limited to the deep south of the USA.

The campbellite sect claims to "restore" the first century church which supposedly "apostacised" itself out of existence when it ceased to follow the Bible as God.  Of course this too is impossible since the Bible was not followed as God by the first century church, it could not have since the Bible was not formed into one volume  until the year 390, long after the church and Christianity had supposedly gone into "total apostacy" and ceased to exist.

To put it bluntly Ollie, you cannot "restore" a body which never esisted to begin with.