[Do you think America (in general) would support the idea of sending their daughters, as well as their sons, off to war if the draft came back?]

     If a man wants to avoid combat, or avoid being deployed… what can he do?  I am sure most of us have read, heard stories, watched a movie, or witnessed first-hand - a situation where a soldier intentionally wounds himself (sometime gravely) … in an attempt to escape the stress of a combat zone.  This indicates that soldiers/sailors/marines in  forward-areas, would be willing to do harm to themselves to avoid combat… but is that all?  Could they fake injuries or complain of ailments that are non-existent, or more truthfully... do they?  Men do not have an easy time avoiding combat, that is certain… why else would they do themselves bodily harm?
     Women on the other hand, have only to get pregnant.  If pregnant, they will immediately be evacuated to the rear (in most cases, Germany or the U.S.) and have the option to separate from the military with an honorable discharge – without completing the obligation they enlisted for.
     Some have proposed that the push for equality and to have women allowed to be in combat roles require a number of things.  I’ll provide a short list.
     1. Women should be required to register with “selective service” – women should be eligible for the “draft.”
          Do you think America (in general) would support the idea of sending their daughters, as well as their sons, off to war if the draft came back?
     2. Women in forward deployed areas should be required to take birth control, to protect the fact that pregnancies result in a serious loss to forward deployed personnel.
          Do you think that it would be morally correct to deny women the right to procreate – simply because of their choice of occupation?
     3. Women should be required to sign a temporary agreement that they will take the responsibility to avoid pregnancy if deployed to a forward area.  If they fail to live up to the agreement, they should be criminally prosecuted.  This policy would be similar to the current policy of prosecuting any soldier who is proved to have intentionally injured themselves to avoid combat.
          This is similar to the birth control “requirement” suggestion.  Again, a question of morality – criminally prosecute our daughters and sisters for bringing new life into the world?

     These are a few of the suggestions that have been circulated widely within the military community.  As Christians, what positions can we support in regards to this issue – in good faith?  Comments?

May the Peace of Christ be with you.

Jaime

My brother Tim (and all my brothers and sisters),
     I absolutely agree with your take on “blasphemy” – though I do not necessarily think that is the only message that can be taken from Christ’s Words.  I have read a very logical interpretation of 1John 5:16 that equated blasphemy with verbally renouncing your belief in God (not necessarily out loud – but at least directed to Him.)  If we proclaimed with all our hearts that we no longer believed in Him and that we reject everything not of this world… that is a very hard example of sin that is not too difficult to understand.  And what a serious thing to do!  This same argument showed how some actions we could choose to make would, in effect, be the same thing as “verbally renouncing” God and severing our ties with our Covenant Family.  Is this not what Judas Iscariot (to borrow from your example Brother Timothy) did with his betrayal?  That he was damned for eternity is certain – but was he damned ONLY for his betrayal - or for taking his own life?  Or could BOTH acts have been acts of blasphemy – sin grave enough to cause him to lose his eternal life?  I think that thought is interesting to say the least.
     The second part of your reply is a very good question.  Who could reject this precious gift of life - if they were a believer?  I submit to you my opinion... my opinion only.  A person can be a believer and not have a strong relationship with God at times.  Too often we get caught up in the world around us and can forget to work on our relationship with God, forget to include Him in our daily thoughts/prayers/activities.  Christians can indeed experience depression, whether it is brought on by spiritual weakness and misunderstanding, or by worldly matters – it can be severe either way.  Martin Luther was a good example of an extra-Biblical figure in Salvation history, a very troubled man, he often wrote through great periods of intense spiritual and emotional depression… but most people have little doubt that he was a believer.  How about from the OT?  Job was another good example, how many times did he cry out for God to acknowledge him?  To give him a sign?  Yet he remained faithful and continued – ultimately believing that He would.  A person that contemplates suicide doesn’t necessarily renounce their belief and faith in Christ – they are just more caught up on someone else… themselves.  It’s very difficult, when you are experiencing great pain… to listen to someone telling you – “It could be worse!” – even if they are humbly trying to remind you of the Passion of Jesus Christ (the “Passion” was NOT a term Mel Gibson coined, by the way, my brothers and sisters!) or just the suffering of other people in the world today.  It’s very hard to see past our own pain.  Although being caught up with our own pain (and having suicidal thoughts) is selfish by it’s nature, it does not mean that we reject God… it DOES indicate that our relationship with him is weak.  I highly recommend the book The Dark Night of the Soul – written in the mid to late 16th century by St. John of the Cross.  Many Christians have felt something similar in their spiritual lives; in fact… most of us DO experience our own “dark night of the soul.”  Some may experience this spiritual “drought” more than once during their journey in this life.  
     The answer, of course, is to take that “right” turn… that turn away from self and society… to God.  
     Maybe you (my brothers and sisters) have never felt so lonely, so hurt, that you just want it to end – and you can’t see beyond that.  Maybe you HAVE… but this feeling has not returned since you were “saved.”  No matter whether or not we can relate, or how closely we THINK we can relate – to believe that a person suffering (with thoughts of suicide) has no faith - is unfair.  They may very well HAVE faith!  It simply may not be burning within them the same way that it once did… but they may still have faith.  And THAT is what they need to be reminded of.  

     I ask that you all pray for the many people suffering throughout the world, as I will.  I will pray for us all.

May the Peace of Christ be with you.

Jaime

SavedByGrace02, red letters, Pixie, Luke O, and 2nd Timothy, and all our brothers and sisters...

     What an excellent issue for debate!  I’d like to add my two cents here, I’ll try to be brief, but still attempt make a relevant contribution to the discussion.
     SavedByGrace02, your position is the position accepted by the majority of Christian denominations and with minimal effort, a person will more than likely find that this position was agreed upon throughout most of Salvation history.  
     That is not to say that this is the only position that is valid and worth consideration… and more importantly, there are other positions that can be presented well in light of Scripture.
     My denominational roots are widespread and my point of view is reflected in my upbringing.  My Mother was a Presbyterian; my Father was both a Southern Baptist and a Pentecostal.  As a young man, I was mostly taught and I have believed in the “Once Saved, Always Saved,” rule to salvation.  Almost all Presbyterians and Baptists generally believe in this theosophy (or at least are taught to), but this is not true within the Pentecostal community.  “Once saved, always saved,” was introduced (largely) to Christianity by John Calvin and his contemporaries – I recommend you read Calvin’s Institutes for an impressive and extremely thoughtful point of view on the Christian Church from this early reformer and leader of a great deal of modern-day Christian thought.
     The classic interpretation of 1John 5:16 is about repentance and asking God for forgiveness for a sin that will not “lead to death.”  In this passage, many believe that John is writing to Christians (so logic would dictate that they have already been saved) and teaching them the difference between sin that does not lead to death (eternal death, or damnation to Hell) and sin that does lead to eternal death.  He is not explicit, in fact the entire New Testament does not specifically give us a list of sins that would fall into the category of “sins that lead to death.”  Some people believe that unabashed breaking of what are universally held to be sins of a “grave” nature can cause us to loose our salvation if we do not regret and pray for forgiveness at His mercy.  Murder is a good example – some view this as a grave sin because it is taking a life… that does not belong to you.  All human life (all life in fact) belongs to God; therefore we have no right to take life from His children, we cannot make that decision for him – “Though Shall Not Kill.”  Intentionally taking ones OWN life would fall into the same category, it would be a rejection of the Truth that our lives belong to God… it is a vain notion indeed to believe that we do not belong to God – that we love and can claim ownership of our souls more so than God.  He loves us more than we could possibly ever love ourselves.  “God is love.” (Underline added)
     Of course, many view Mathew 12:32 as an example of the only unforgivable sin – “blasphemy” against the Holy Spirit.  Try reading and reflecting on this passage as our Lord Jesus Himself tells us that there IS a sin that will not be forgiven “in this age or the age to come.”  Does this passage imply that this is the only sin that will not be forgiven?
     In truth, your individual belief on this issue may depend a lot on different things: what school of thought you belong to for the “once saved always saved” doctrine, what church you belong to, what church you were raised in, or what your family and people close to you believe.  This issue is not a clear-cut case of reading Scripture for a definite answer, if it was… there would be no debate on this issue!
     The following (mainstream) Christian denominations (in alphabetical order) hold to the belief that salvation can be lost through grievous sin if forgiveness for that sin is not sought out:  Anglicans, Catholics, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Methodists, all Orthodox Christians, and Pentecostals.  There are many other smaller denominations that hold to this understanding as well.  Presbyterians, Baptists, and those many denominations that have been influenced by these two large Christian denominations – reject the idea of different levels of the nature and seriousness of any sin.
     For an answer, for any person, I believe we must turn to His Word… and listen with an open heart to what the Holy Spirit whispers to our quiet mind.  Truth is not subjective… no matter what we, as individuals, believe - Truth is Truth.  We are always free (and always have been free) to believe whatever we wish… but believing strongly in something does not make that thing “true.”  The answer is in God.  

     Pray my brothers and sisters, pray for an answer… and most importantly, pray for the people who are so troubled in this life – that they wish to end their precious, precious lives - before the time and circumstances that God wills.

May the Peace of Christ be with you.

Jaime
   

Thank you both, very much.

May the Peace of Christ be with you.

Jaime

The fact of the matter is that right now we aren't Defending anything. We're the aggressors in the world situation. We are Hitler, Germany. We, to those people, are he Nais, trying to establish control without looking like it on public paper and media.

If you join the military, what are you supporting?

Christ said turnt eh other cheek, to not make war. We're certainly making war.

The only time we're to fight, is when God gives the order.

Bush is not only on a high horse, he's not only Totalitarian, he's part of a Satanic group.

     “The fact of the matter” that you mentioned is not a fact by any means – it is only your opinion – THAT is a fact.  Many people hold views contrary to yours (I am one), but this does not mean you views are incorrect (they are based on your opinion after all)… just your words.  Since you also used the words “right now” – I feel the need to comment further… Right now – we are “Defending” something – at the very least, the soldiers/sailors/marines in the OIF/OEF theaters are defending EACHOTHER – something worthy of our greatest respect… “No greater love hath a man…”
     Your second comment, that we are “the aggressors,” is not an uncommon point of view - particularly in the international community.  I have had many opportunities to speak with coalition soldiers from several different countries (particularly British soldiers) – though there are not NEARLY as many foreign soldiers in the theater as there are Americans.  However, many of them agree with you on your second point, your message is certainly valid.
     The third comment, likening the United States to Nazi Germany, is sensationalism at best… and unnecessarily offensive as well.  “If Truth offends a person, then they are simply offended by the Truth…” – but your comment was unfair (destructive by nature) and not in line with the truth.  “Sensationalism is the enemy of Truth, my friends.”
     Your question, about a person’s intentions when joining the military – is a good question, that certainly deserves attention.  If any person is thinking about an enlistment or accepting a commission in the military, this is one of the questions they should ask themselves.  But, I think you meant to imply something else with this comment (forgive my assumption, but it seems fair considering the context) – and you should consider this… every single person in the military joins for different reasons.  To imply that to simply “join” is to support something worthy of mourning (as war certainly is) is comparable to saying that paying taxes is supporting monetary abuses by politicians.  They may be relatable, but most people don’t pay taxes thinking, “I am supporting my congressman’s drug habit!”  In a similar manner, I doubt many people join the military because they want to be involved in something they perceive as “evil.”  If they did, however, that would certainly be a sin.
     Your next comment about what Christ said was certainly offensive and completely false.  You should take care, when you are quoting the words of God… not to ADD TO THEM.
     Your point about when war is justified is an interesting point… but I challenge you to support your comment with Scripture.  
     Your final comment was, once again, a good example of sensationalism.  If you truly want to get your point across, you should try to argue your point with a little more charity.
     All in all, your opinions are valid and worthy of respect my brother… but I would humbly suggest that you give some time for serious thought and prayer before you communicate your feelings – if your intention is to help people see your point of view that is.

May the Peace of Christ be with you.

Jaime

My post was responding specifically to the "Commander in Chief" part.  

You weren't National Guard, were you?

     No, I wasn't - though I worked with National Guardsmen and Reservists often enough.  I have a great amount of respect for the RC (reserve component) personnel.  There are far more National Guardsmen and Reservists fighting this war than there are Active-Duty soldiers/sailors/marines… and you have to respect that – they have sacrificed quite a lot, just to be deployed to the theater.  My prayers always go out to them.  My unit (the 82nd ABN DIV) was based out of Fort Bragg, NC.

May the Peace of Christ be with you.

Jaime

     I would like to ask for discussion about an issue I have some experience with – women in the military.  Should women be allowed to serve in the military?  What types of occupations should they be limited to or SHOULD they be limited at all?  Currently, women are not allowed to serve in (or command) units designated as “combat arms,” – infantry, artillery, Anglico, Para-rescue, LRS/Rangers, and all the Special Operations units.  Is this fair?  If a fully integrated military is allowed, should women also be eligible for the draft when they turn 18 as all men are?  Also, in the event that a woman in the military becomes pregnant (a blessing in itself!) – and according to the policies of all 3 military departments (Army, Air Force, Navy/Marines) – she would be immediately removed from anywhere near the combat zone… would that fact be grounds to require females to take mandatory birth control if they were serving in a “combat arms” unit?  How would all of these questions be dealt from a Christian point of view… and what relevant parts of Scripture can you point me to for this topic?  I look forward to any and all comments or questions!  

May the Peace of Christ be with you.

Jaime

     I suppose there are several schools of thought for issues like this.  Like you pointed out, there are two obvious positions you could take – either let a female win (for whatever reasons), or challenge her indiscriminately.  
     Another that might deserve consideration would be a refusal to accept the challenge.  Whether or not you are comfortable with the idea of wrestling with a member of the opposite sex (I imagine the idea would not be TOO displeasing) wouldn’t really be the main concern – as far as a refusal on moral grounds would go.  The simple fact of the nature of the physical contact is worthy of questioning, and that would be a good enough reason to object.  I do not know how much attention this issue has received, compared to other “equality” issue – like women in the military for example, but it is an interesting topic indeed.  I am sure that there is a chance that a refusal to accept to wrestle a female based on moral grounds may get you some attention.  I remember a girl in my high school that stood up for something similar and the next thing you know… I was seeing her on MTV news!  In any case… the choice is ultimately yours.  Listen carefully to what the Spirit Speaks to you… and I’m sure you will handle each situation as appropriately as you can.

May the Peace of Christ be with you.

Jaime

Brother Love,
     Since this part of the forum is “debate” I felt compelled to comment/question what you said.  First, I would like to say that I relate to the meaning of your message – or what I interpret as your message.  But, I would also like to ask… since you use the word “not” in every line… are you saying that all those things are negative or incorrect in some manner?  Please clarify, if you have the time, my brother.

May the Peace of Christ be with you.

Jaime

     There is literally no definite way to know for sure, based on faith, which candidate is better.  There are many issues that they differ on dramatically – and depending on what issues are closest to your heart… you may have a different perspective.  
     Of course, abortion is a major issue for many Christians (myself included) and one of the deciding factors for many.  However, the Bible is fairly ambiguous or unclear about the issue of abortion… and there is certainly debate within the Christian community about whether or not abortion itself is sinful.  
     Specifically, if an anti-Christian law is proposed, we should all be warned and look to the Word for an answer… but in ordinary matters, we are able to vote freely… as long as we take the time and effort to listen to the Holy Spirit who speaks the truth to us all – if we only listen.
     A very important issue for me (I am a OIF veteran, recently come home) is the “situation” in Iraq.  You may have another issue that motivates you to "question."  Whatever the case, listen carefully my brothers and sisters… carefully indeed.  The freedom and right to vote is truly a blessing (believe me) and we should exercise it with study and respect.

May the Peace of Christ be with you.

Jaime

Lisa,
     Forgive me if I am misunderstanding you my sister.  But when you opened up with the comment about the “ending of my life…” I have to ask… are you okay?  Have you considered hurting yourself?  Please don’t hesitate to communicate about it… I am more than willing to give you my time if you need it.  Please know that you are loved.  It is not a figurative embrace He gives… it is physical and it is very real.  And as your brother, I will give you a hand if you need one.  It may be hard to understand, or accept at times… but we are truly a family, and if you have biological siblings yourself… you may be able to relate to the idea of having a certain brother or sister that you feel more comfortable communicating with than others.  I am sure there are many here that will listen as well… don’t be afraid to share!  

Take another breath… and stay strong.

May the Peace of Christ be with you.

Jaime

Welcome Pam!
     I am a new member myself, so I don't know how proper it is to be welcomed by someone new... but I'm sure it can't hurt!  Welcome, my sister, it's very nice to meet you.  I enjoyed your short testimony very much.  Especially the part about your son… children are such an amazing blessing aren’t they!?  I will pray for the safety and happiness of your family Pam.  

     May the Peace of Christ be with you and all yours.

Jaime
(Jay-me not Jay-m)

Welcome!  Nice to meet you.  

   Greetings everyone!  I am new to this forum... or any forum for that matter.  My name is Jaime, I'm 24 years old, I was born in Georgia, grew up mostly in Houston, but I've lived in the Twin Cities (Minneapolis/St. Paul) for several years.  I am no stranger to the Bible by any means; I grew up in a strong Christian family.  I admit that I am a little hesitant to relate my history and religious background because people typically like to pigeonhole you when you do… but I’ve found that sharing can really help people to relate sometimes – after all… no new understanding was ever reached by a LACK of communication!  Right!?    So here goes – both of my parents are from the South, my Mother’s family is originally from Fayetteville, NC – my Father’s family is from Hephzibah, Georgia.  My Mother was a Presbyterian, my Father’s mother was Southern Baptist and his father was Pentecostal – he grew up going to both churches (not uncommon in Georgia at all).  I have experienced the Word from many different denominational viewpoints.  I consider myself a (non-denominational) Christian – wonderfully simple enough I think!  The church I have gone to for the last several years is non-denominational as well (though they have an affiliation with the General Baptist Conference).  
   I have been a soldier (recently home from the war in Iraq) and am now a college student studying Business Administration.  I am actively involved (or a member) in the following organizations: the African American Christian Veterans (it’s a social club/organization open to black War Veterans who do not feel welcome at the local VFW), the 82nd Airborne Division Association (for former soldiers/paratroopers of the 82nd), and I am very proud to be involved with the Black Achievers (I counsel troubled teenagers who are dealing with issues I dealt with growing up – mostly gang violence and drugs).
   As I mentioned earlier, I have no experience with online forums… but I hope that this will be a constructive format to help me learn from and share with my true brothers and sisters… and to grow closer to Him.
   May the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all!

Jaime
(Jay-me… not Jay-m)