Hi, everyone!  It's good to be back on the board!  It's been an amazing, marvelous, wonderful, peaceful time for the last six months or so.  God is doing so much that I don't know where to begin.

I just skimmed through the posts and responses on this topic which I had started, and it looks like January of this year was the last time I posted, when I thought the divorce was going to be final.  It was never finalized until June 19th thanks to my ex's TERRIBLE attorney--and I do mean terrible!  She never did anything she was supposed to do, sat on paperwork and did not respond, BUT she never sent him a bill either. 

Since then I have talked with or stopped in at the house of my ex several times for various reasons--one being we still have  not sold the house we both own.  It's been on the market since Easter.  It had a few lookers and at one point three people who were interested, but they couldn't come up with the money.  So please pray that our house will sell soon because we need the money to move on.

Each time I see or talk to him, it confirms in my heart and mind that I did the right thing.  He is still those 4 words:  negative, angry, pessimistic, and critical--AND he still won't admit it.  Just for example, our nephew was married recently--a wonderful Christian couple--and he and I were at opposite ends of the room at the reception, but I could see him.  He and his Dad (who won't talk to me at all) sat there looking bored stiff and mad at the world.  My son who was in the wedding commented the same thing.  When I asked my ex what he thought of the wedding (It was rather too modern and contemporary for my tastes.), he said "it was OK", and then I commented that he looked bored, etc.  He DENIED it.  He just has no concept or realization of how he looks and acts to and with others or even how he feels inside.  In the past year + since I left, nothing has changed in his life. 

Another example is I stopped in Saturday to show him a quilt I had someone finish that my mother and grandmother had made the top for and never finished, and in the 10-15 minutes I was there, he went from "tender" when he was looking at the quilt and admiring it, to "human" when he showed me his new high def TV he got, and finally to "agitated" when I asked him a simple question.  I left thinking to myself, well, that is clear enough that there's nothing different about him. 

I settled on a very nice, warm caring fellowship of believers and am planning to be baptized by immersion and join church on December 14th.  They are very understanding and caring, and I have NOT heard ANY negatives, criticisms, or anything like that from anyone to me or anyone else.  I won't say it's a perfect church  BUT it's pretty close!     We got a new pastor several months ago and he started a support group just for my friend and I, and it has been great to have his support, understanding, and counsel.

Even this morning, I called him and we talked for 25 minutes on the phone.  I just had to share with him what the Lord revealed to me this morning in my time of devotions.  (It's a long story but all good.)  He rejoiced with me.

I have been gradually getting involved in the church.  I sing solos and in the choir.  Then they needed Sunday School teachers and helpers, so I am co-teaching a class of 3-4-year-olds with another lady.  They had a website and needed someone to put time into updating it, so I've done that, and I maintain it.  Now I'm working on a special one-time project of a pictorial directory.  I really enjoy doing these things and serving the Lord.

Outside of the church, I had taken a course about 3 years ago to be a volunteer visitor for the chaplain's office at a local hospital.  Then all the deaths I referred to in a previous post here had started taking place and I never got back to it.  So now it's been about a month that I've been going in once a week for two hours and visiting patients, encouraging, praying, talking, seeing if they need anything, etc.  I love it, and some days the patients and/or their visitors lift me up more than I do them.

Finances was a big, big concern for me earlier in the year, but the Lord brought me through that, supplying all along the way, even when I got impatient and said when, Lord? how, Lord?  I downsized from the brand new double-wide I had purchased to a single-wide mobile home in a different park to save money and to be close to my friend.  She also went through a divorce, and I keep her boy while she's at work/school.  We trade things and services and help each other along, so that's been a big blessing to have a Christian friend to turn to in a moment's notice.

So to any who read this and are discouraged, upset, tense, and worried, please take heart.    Everything will work out somehow, sometime, somewhere if you just keep trusting the Lord with all your heart.  I have come out of this divorce a much better person, closer to the Lord, and with better relationships than I've had before with those at my church and family.  God bless. 

I don't know when I'll have time to come back here because the Lord is keeping me busy, but I have a notifier set to let me know when someone posts, and I'll try to come back and respond.  If I don't get back on before, have a wonderful Thanksgiving--I know I will--even if I'm alone!

PROGRESS!!! 
My STBX and I came to a verbal agreement and my attorney is drawing up the divorce papers.  Hopefully by the end of the week it will all be over (as far as the formality goes).  Then I can move on with the rest of my life!   
Please pray that everything goes smoothly and quickly so the hearing I was to go to on Friday can be canceled and that my STBX won't change his mind again!
Thanks everyone for your prayers!

When in a particular thread, is there a way of sorting responses by date so that the most recent one is at the top?  I hate having to wade through pages of responses I already read and would like to quickly see if there is anything new.

I am using Internet Explorer, but I haven't upgraded to 7 yet as I have heard of all the problems and figured I would wait until they are fixed. I managed to insert a smiley today with no trouble. It could never happen again, or else it is waiting until I write a really long post that i have worked really hard on so it can wipe it away to my dismay and unbelief.   

I updated to Internet 7 a couple of months ago.  Initially before that I had problems with 7 also and uninstalled it, but with the fixes and patches since it first came out, I have not had 1 problem with 7 and love it!  You might want to try it again!   

Hi, everyone, MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

I know it's Christmas, but I'm all alone today and trying to pass the time by listening to Christmas CDs and surfing, so I thought I'd come back and do an update.

Several times my STBX and I talked and I thought we had an agreement to settle, and then he changes his mind about something.  We talked the other day and we verbally said that what we had just discussed was do-able, but he insists on talking to his attorney first, and SHE is the worst attorney I've ever seen and wouldn't recommend her to my worst enemy.  I think she's taking him to the cleaners by insisting on fighting every agreement we talk about just to get herself more money.  I keep trying to get him to understand that what I'm asking for is much less than the judge could award to me, and once the judge does that, there's no reversing it.  I don't know whether he thinks I'm making it up or what, but his attorney seems to be pushing him to take that chance and hold out.  Meanwhile it adds to both of our attorney fees.  I have a court hearing on January 11th regarding his pension, and we both have a hearing on January 18th with Domestic Relations.  The amount they assigned my STBX to pay me is over twice what I am asking for, and his attorney filed an appeal.  Well, that's enough details about that.  Just pray that my STBX will come to his senses and accept my proposal instead of holding out for the judge's decision.

I just want to get the divorce behind me so I can move forward with my life knowing how much I have to work with, and be able to go to a different church with the divorce over so there's no questions and people trying to prevent it.  Once it's over, what can people say?!

I have been attending a Bible believing church for the last couple of months, but do not feel comfortable with it long-term, and will be looking again this week.  I tried to share with the pastor, and all he did was shove Scripture down my throat, and not even truly listen to me or try to understand any of the other things going on in my life or comfort or encourage me.  All he wanted to do was know my STBX's name and where he lives so he could get us back together.  I thought that was very rude, uncaring, and showed he had no compassion for me as a person.  He was more interested in salvaging a marriage that has nothing left to salvage!  Then he told me one thing when he visited me and said another from the pulpit, and still another in an EM--very inconsistent.  He also seems very cold and reminds me very much of a former pastor with whom I had major problems after he misrepresented me and refused to admit it.  In addition, this church requires baptism by IMMERSION.  I was baptized (sprinkled) as an adult believer, and do not have a desire or feel a need to be baptized again by immersion.  Plus, they do not allow women to serve in church leadership except for teaching Sunday School.  That kind of church is not for me.  BUT I am a person who loves the old-fashioned hymns (and SOME choruses), but NOT the comtemporary music, worship bands, etc.  I know, that's another topic altogether and I don't want to get into it here.  I just wanted to say that this is one of the reasons I am looking for another church.  So pray for me to find a church home that accepts me and desires to minister to me even as I minister alongside of them, and that does not reject me or refuse to let me participate in ALL aspects of the church.  I love to teach SS, lead Ladies Bible studies, do children's sermons/object lessons, sing solos and in the choir, do the church newsletter and other secretarial things, and wherever else I can help.  I want to be able to do that in a "new" church.

I don't think I mentioned it in any of my previous posts, but In the last 2 years I've had 22 "stress factors" including the death of my father and mother-in-law 2 years ago, and in the last 6 months, the death of my mother, my pastor friend, and several aunts and uncles in between all these.  One adult son is across the US with my 3 grandchildren.  The other adult son has a girlfriend and is with her all weekend.  So I'm all alone on Christmas, and the last couple of days it has been really hard for me because the last 2 years since Dad died, Mom came to my home for a week over the Christmas week, and now she's not here at all.

Well, I think that brings us up-to-date.  MERRY CHRISTMAS to all of you!  Thanks for "listening" and sharing.

He has been like this off and on our whole marriage.  I left him a couple of times early-on plus 10 years ago at which time I was gone for 16 days and filed for divorce then.  Each time I came back it was to unkept promises to get his anger under control, go to counseling, make some changes, yada yada yada.  When I filed for divorce 10 years ago, he even made a so-called re-commitment to the Lord, but that was short-lived as well.  Looking back, I think he was just putting on his best behavior to get me back.  I had stopped the divorce proceedings when we got back together, and between the two of us, we spent about $1,500 each on attorney fees.  Six months after I left and came back the last time, his true colors started showing again, blowing up in the car in front of our son's grandmother-to-be when we were going to the wedding rehearsal dinner.  That was so embarrassing.  Over the next 10 years, I kicked myself many times for coming back.  Now here I am spending that same amount of money AGAIN!   

No, this is not a new problem, just one that has gotten worse and worse.  I kept telling myself, it will change, I can do this with the Lord's help, and hang in here.  But it didn't change, and though the Lord did not stop helping me, it was affecting my health, and it was wearing on me every single day.  It was horrible.  I am glad I'm out of there! and will NEVER go back again.  I will NEVER marry anyone else either!  I had enough during these past 35 (would be 36 on 10/9) years to know I don't want to do it again.

Re:  levels of verbal and emotional abuse
Everyone has their own opinion of what constitutes a certain level, the place where you draw the line, etc.  When you put 35 years into a marriage, and call it quits and it's NOT because of adultery or wanting freedom, etc., it's not a light decision.  As I said before, he was negative, pessimistic, critical, and angry--angry to the point that he would break things, throw things, put his fist through a door, get in my face shouting and putting me down.  There wasn't a day went by that he wouldn't be all 4 of those words before the day was over.  He was very critical and at times almost had me believing he was right, but he wasn't!  He would taunt me with things, tell me I was stupid, didn't know what I was talking about, etc., and it wasn't just lightly--it was loudly and strongly.  It's hard to describe unless you've been there.  I have a friend who is going through the same thing at the same time as me (not divorce, but the same problems with her husband). and what she tells me about her husband is exactly what I was experiencing with mine.  We know what each other was or is going through.

The church, as most relatives, friends, etc. does not know what my husband is like at home, and it makes it hard for them to believe he can be such an ogre.  He goes to a different church, and I have no id.ea how they're dealing with it because he is the organist there.  My church has only seen him a few times when he came to socials with me, and of course, he always has his false face on and is on good behavior, so of course, they think He seems so nice. .  Believe me, I prayed for many years about this!

I want to update everyone on what's been happening the last two weeks I moved in on Saturday, the 8th.  I'm settled in and love the new home and neighborhood.  I really believe God has something important for me to do here in my new neighborhood.

Next is a new  issue that I believe is in conjunction with the divorce.  I met with our district superintendent (DS) on Sunday, 9/2, after church, and he told me he thought I should resign as the church's lay delegate (LD) , and that a couple of people contacted him and said they had a problem(s) with me, but he would not say who or what the problem is.  I hate when people do that.  If you don’t know what it is, you can’t resolve it, and that’s both frustrating and not conducive to making changes and moving on.  I told him I would not resign on my own because I love doing what I’m doing, and want to continue doing it. 

The Official Board (OB) meeting was the following Wednesday, 9/5 after prayer meeting.  The DS was present.  When we were going through the business part of the meeting, when it was my turn to “report” I said something like “I understand there are one or more people who “have a problem” with me, and I would ask that person or persons to come to me so we can resolve it.  I have a feeling it could be a misunderstanding, and I don’t want to be at odds with anyone….If that person is not here now, please tell them.”  Well, the room got so quiet you could hear a pin drop.  No one said anything to me then or since.  After the business part of the meeting, the OB president looked at the DS and said, “well, we have this letter from Martha about her divorce.  I guess you’re going to address that.”  He asked me if I would resign if they asked me to, or any discussion was moot.  I said I don’t want to resign, but if the OB wants me to, I will.  (I figured it’s no use fighting city hall or making enemies, etc.)  They asked me to step out, so I paced the parking lot for 20 minutes in the heat.  When they called me back in, the DS said he was appointed spokesman.  He told me it was UNANIMOUS that the board is asking for my resignation.  I was so stunned  that I didn’t even ask why.  I just said they would have my letter by Sunday and left.  That was very hurtful, and I’m still working through it.

On Sunday, 9/9, we obtained an interim pastor (IP), but I did not go to church anywhere that day.  It was the day after I moved, so I just stayed home, had my own devotions, listened to music, etc.  I did not go to prayer meeting that week either.  Only 2 people called me to say they missed me, and I had called 2 others to discuss what happened at the meeting.  The following Sunday (this past week, 9/16), I visited a friend's church, relatives, and a friend in the morning and went to my church in the evening.

I had a talk with the IP on Wednesday evening before church regarding my being asked to resign as LD.  I told him that I feel one “job” isn’t any different than another, and he agreed with me.  They are all a ministry—even doing the newsletter.  We both agreed that if I’m not allowed to be LD then I shouldn’t be teaching, etc.  It is being inconsistent on the board/church’s part.  He thinks I should either write a letter or request to address the OB and ask the reason(s) why I was asked to resign.  I am just assuming it is the divorce issue, but they didn’t give any reason(s).  Then go on to explain my point of view.  If it is just the divorce that is the issue, that means I would not be able to be in any leadership position in the church, which would let them with a lot of holes—which MIGHT get some of the members upset and open a can of worms or something.  The other thing is that since the church has no by-laws (and don’t want any), the church is required to abide by the denomination’s Discipline.  Since it states in the Discipline that divorced people are to be granted full participation in church membership and activities, etc.; in asking me to resign, they are not upholding the church discipline.  I don’t want to be present at another board meeting, but I am going to write that letter.  So pray for the TACTFUL way to explain my position, etc. and for the outcome.  I know the IP will back me up on this. 

I also thought of asking for what they call a referendum which means the issue has to be taken to the congregation for a vote.  Outside the OB, most people do not know of my pending divorce yet, but the ones I have shared it with do not have a problem with it, and in fact some of them are divorced people and serving in the church, so the other question I will be asking is, is my not being able to serve time-sensitive—such as only until the divorce is final, or a year or something—or will I NEVER be allowed to serve there again.  If that's the case, then I also need to ask why there have been divorcees serving in the past and presently.  I hate to do it, but if the latter is the case, I’ll be looking for a new church.  I want to minister to people and I believe I can regardless of the outcome of my divorce.  I do not want to sit back and do nothing but warm a pew—that’s not me!

Regarding my husband…  He was served the divorce papers a week ago and had an appointment with an attorney.  I have not heard anything from him or his attorney yet.  I have a feeling he will drag things out just to drain me of money in paying for an attorney.  I had to pay a $1,500 retainer fee up-front, and I got the attorney’s statement today, and already he’s used almost $900 of that amount.  Finances are getting tight for me until this all is settled.

One positive thing  is with all the stress I HAD (none now), the moving, the heat (sweated a lot), and the extra walking, I’ve lost a good bit of weight.  A couple more pounds and I’ll be down to where I was about 10 years ago, which is good.

So.... I know different churches have different rules and thoughts, etc., but would you agree that if I can't minister as LD, then I shouldn't minister at all???

Never mind that last question.  After I posted it, I saw it did change the previous posts. 

  Sorry about the sig line.  I've used it on message boards before and it wasn't considered advertising, and besides, I didn't mean it that way--it just kind of tells who I am--a self-employed individual.  I changed my profile.  Is there a way to go back and change my posts, or will changing the profile do it automatically?

[I rest my case.]

  Ahh, that does make more sense.  I had been thinking that MAYBE Jesus didn't go any further or be more specific because it might give someone an out for no good reason OR you know the saying "out of sight, out of mind"--well, MAYBE He didn't want to mention any other situations so as not to give anyone an excuse or loophole.  Am I making sense?

No, I don't advocate divorce either for just no reason or such as you mentioned, but when things don't change, and even get worse, and you start feeling threatened, and unsure about your own safety, I think it's time.  I have a big hole in my bedroom door as a result of his anger over something stupid like not being able to button a top button on his dress shirt.  I thank God I had not walked into the room at that moment or been his target rather than the door.  But who knows?  Maybe the next time it could be me at the receiving end, and I'm not about to wait any longer to find out.  One pastor that was at our church last Sunday said not to use analogies, but they help make the point.  If you were in a burning building, would you stay there and be burned alive or would you run out as fast as you can?
  I rest my case.

I would like to ask Pastor Rogers to explain in more detail his statement on an old board on the subject of divorce. 

"divorce is not something that we should take lightly. God does not want us to get divorces, however He does make a way out for us if the situation is unbearable. If you have tried everything you can, marriage counselling with a good Christian pastor or Christian marriage councillor, if your spouse still ..."

I have pastors and SOME Christians who tell me that divorce is wrong PERIOD.  I have many more Christian friends who understand what I have gone through for the last 35 years, and wonder why I didn't leave sooner, or why I put up with it for so long.  Mine is a case of constant verbal and emotional abuse.  We've gone the marraige counseling route, etc. and nothing ever changes.  Four words describe my soon-to-be ex-husband:  negative, pessimistic, critical, and angry.  I just can't take it any more.  I am moving out this week into my own mobile home, and filing for divorce.  I thought of just being separated to appease everybody with the "divorce" title, but I need half of everything we've both worked for for these 35 years to be able to live on my own as I am self-employed and do not make that much money; and the only way I could get that is through a divorce.

I firmly believe that the Lord has been with me all the way through these last 2 months of packing and preparing to leave and now the leave about to take place.  EVERYTHING has just fallen into place, and when I was getting discouraged, ONE of my Christian friends called or sent me an EM to encourage me and pray with me.  I feel the Lord does not want me to continue to live like that.  It was/is affecting my health--high blood pressure, depression, and high cholesterol.  I have a good sense that when I'm out from under the tension, these things will clear up in time.  I am looking forward to serving Him better and more as soon as I am on my own where I can come and go without someone criticizing me or breathing down my neck.

Anyway, back to my question...  How do you explain to people that under such circumstances it is OK to divorce?  They say there is no reason except adultery, and while I believe I'm doing the right thing for me, and I agree with you statement, HOW do you back that up with Scripture to "defend" yourself?  My leadership positions at church are teetering on the edge of being dismissed because of divorce and the fact that some people have disagreements with me (That's another discussion in itself.).

[love]

  My personal feeling is that I like a small church.  I’ve been in big churches to visit and felt totally out of place and left feeling thankful and anxious to go back to my small church.  Now I’m not saying that the people out in the world don’t need the Lord, or that I shouldn’t ask people to come to church, but what I am saying is that I do not feel comfortable in a larger church, and if we got too big, I’d probably look for a small church again.  

The other side of that is, right now, our church has a pretty good mix of some choruses in the beginning and then a prayer hymn and closing hymn.  I lean more to the old-fashioned hymns of the church—especially in a worship service--and I absolutely love the piano and organ.  I like the choruses, and I like orchestras and some bands—on the RADIO, tape, or CD, but NOT in church.  If they ever move towards a “worship team”, drums, guitars, etc., I’d be looking for another church.  That just is NOT my style.  I know that probably attracts some people to a church, and that’s great, but it’s not my style and I do not feel at all comfortable in a worship setting with that kind of stuff.  I’ve been in other churches where they had such things and I couldn’t wait to get out of there!

  I can’t reconcile my own desires and style versus “growing with the times” to reach others with things that completely turn me off.  In other words, if a more modern service/music would appeal to someone, but I don't want to go myself to that kind of atmosphere, and that person doesn't want to come to my comfortable older type atmosphere, how can I ask people to come to church and other functions?  I've tried going to some of the more modern things, and simply hated it.

What’s your take on these things?  Is it wrong or selfish of me to want to attend a church or activity where I feel comfortable and avoid the ones that make me uncomfortable?  If not, then, how can I invite someone to church if it's not their style?

In addition, what if a church has gained people because they like our small, "old fashioned" type church environment, and then pastor or some people want to change to newer ideas to attract people?  I believe that if people were attracted to us because we were small and because of the type of service we had, we should not change--let those who want a different type service and bigger church go to that kind of church.  I could go on, but I think you'll get the idea.