For now, I will stop replying here for a little. I want people to have the chance to read all this before we go on and make this thing 5 pages. I would hope that everyone would read this entire thing and consider all the posts carefully. Pray over the verses presented here and if you do it with a pure heart turned only to the Lord, you will know what it means.



Bronzesnake and BEP, I will reply to your most recent post soon.

Bronzesnake, what you speak of and support is the work of the Nicolaitians...of which God hates. People do not need to go to school to learn the things of God. This is taught by the Holy Spirit. Whenever we gather together we each have some portion to share. We speak forth what we have learned from the Spirit and receive life from others who speak.

1 Cor 14:26
How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.

Scripture clearly tells us that this must be done. But it is only being done through one man. This is not a healthly functioning body.

Many people still rely on the mind. A scribe can know the bible better than anyone but can know the least of anyone concerning the things of God...Just like the Pharisees!!

People do not believe this "free for all" -as John coined- will not work. They do not believe it because they still worship God without the spirit.
1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Where two or three gather in the Lord's name, there the Lord will be in our midst. It is Lord Jesus Himself who is building the church up as we gather together and speak. If we are still in our minds, your conviction Bronzesnake, will be true. It will be unorganized and "incompetant" people will share stupid things. But we are not lead by our own minds, we are lead by the spirit. That is how we will all drink from the same spirit and worship God in spirit and truthfulness.


This is greatly affecting this nation. There are not many people who truly know and worship God. We need to wake up!! You have a name that you are living, but you are truly dead (rev 3:1)! This speaks of churches all over this nation! This nation is not blessed that there is a church on every corner...not if all of them are dead churches!


The True Church
http://www.injesus.com/Groups/ViewMessage.cfm?MessageId=0B006UH5&GroupID=3A006QBI&UCD=xyf

Brother Felix,

WRONG! Bronzesnake is suggesting that teachers should have some knowledge before they are allowed to teach before a congregation. This is simple - common sense. He's not talking about someone giving a testimony.

I would certainly hope you aren't advocating that 2-minute microwave Christians be immediately placed in the pulpit as teachers over a congregation. ARE YOU?

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 119:105  Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

I may not be right in saying that Bronzesnake is supporting the works of Nicolaitians. But I do believe this is happening all over this nation by the spirit of what Bronzesnake was talking about. I should say instead that "You may not know it, but I believe this is the work of the Nicolaitians."

What do you mean by the following?

I would certainly hope you aren't advocating that 2-minute microwave Christians be immediately placed in the pulpit as teachers over a congregation. ARE YOU?

2 minute microwave Christians? Not being sarcastic, dont know what you mean.



What is happening to the churches...

There are people going to schools to become ministers. This isnt a bad thing but see what happens because of this.

This whole process becomes binded by the world. With my lack of good vocabulary it means that...It is then no longer any different from going to school to become an engineer or doctor.

He becomes a pastor of a church. This is his job...what he went to school for. The objective becomes numbers in the pews not for Christ Himself. This is how the pastor makes his living. This is his life.

But then we come across scripture

1 Cor 14:26
How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.

The pastor will not let this happen. Because this will threaten the function of the pastor. Because the pastor does not have a heart for God but for the things of this world. That is his livelyhood...the people in the church who provide money for the pastor. It is no different than choosing a job over taking the cross and following Christ.

If there is any chance of God's revival, these men must forsake all things and sacrifice all things for God. Pray for the men who are in this situation. This is big reason why the Church is dying.

[wise]

Thanks Audax! True and wise word.

Felix and Peh,

Since you are so willing to condemn people for what they have to say about Benny Hinns teachings and are not willing to take what they have to say in the matter then I suggest that you listen to Benny Hinn yourselves and hear how he teaches that we do not have God within us but that we are Gods. How he says that he is prophesying yet none, zero, zip, nada of them have come true when he said they would. How he said that Jesus Christ would be and has been here on earth recently in the flesh. How he supports the act of necromancy which is against the word of God. Then once you have heard for yourselves compare this to the teachings of Jesus Christ himself.

There are many of Benny Hinns audio clips available on the net. Search for them and listen to them for yourselves perhaps then you might believe and will no longer condemn good and faithful Christians for condemning his teachings.

Did everyone here not see clearly what we wrote? Since I am so willing to condemn people?!

Imagine that this wasnt written here but in some other thread. Would you be saying the same things?

Quote from: peh on May 11, 2005, 10:07:27 PM
Instead of finding fault in posts with public figures, perhaps we'd be better off, if we believe someone is misusing the Word, or is prophesying falsely, to follow Scriptural procedures rather than to "speak evil of" them on posts.

Procedures such as Matt 18:15 "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.' 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. "

Twice Scriptures warn us:

2 Peter 2:9-10 "the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries,.."

And Jude 1:8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries.

While some say these "dignitaries" mentioned are not of flesh and blood but spiritual, it seems it would be wise not to be found among those who "speak evil of dignitaries", even if it is even remotely possible it may mean Benny Hinn.  
 
 

Amen sister! I had wanted to reply to this a lot sooner. Because at the time, I just had a revelation about this matter and was very eager to share it when I read this.

Earlier in this thread...this was exactly why I questioned these people here. I asked Evangelist to tell me what prophecies were false. Just like you said sister..."perhaps we'd be better off, if we believe someone is misusing the Word, or is prophesying falsely, to follow Scriptural procedures rather than to "speak evil of" them on posts." This is what is suppose to be done. Otherwise, we are judged by God himself.


Brothers and sisters, at this point...I still do not know if Benny Hinn is a false teacher and prophet...even after coming to a site that rebuked Hinn.

What is the situation here?

Consider the following:
A prophet of God comes. People call him a heretic and a liar. Therefore, people believe that and throw out everything that man says. What if...just what if what that man is saying is a Word from God??? Do you know who is at judgement here? Can we learn something from the OT? Do we not see that the trend of Israel were to reject the words from God's prophets? Do we not see that it were the pharisees themselves who rejected the Words of God Himself, Jesus Christ?!

God does not want people to easily ill-believe in people. This is JUDGING! You will be judged in like manner. You see...even if the prophet is false you will not be accountable for thinking he was real. But you will be held accountable if the prophet is true and you speak evil of him.


Why you are or are not accountable:
Say a person says he's the greatest basketball player in the world (the truth is he's not; he is lying). However, you believe him.

Then one day you meet him and watch him play a game. You find out from this that he didnt even score a point. So he exalted himself and he is then humbled by the truth. Judgement itself fell on him. There was no need for man to make this judgement. Otherwise, it is dangerous...

Now consider a person who says he is the greatest basketball player in the world (this is the truth; he is NOT lying). You hear people speak ill of him who say he's arrogant and cant even slam dunk. You hear and accept full heartedly these ill words against him. You do not believe he is the greatest basketball player in the world; you think he is just exalted himself. So who is at judgement here? YOU are! Because you choose to accept these false and ill words against him and you believed it! And not only that but you spread this word to others and bring them under your same judgement!


So what can we learn from this?
It is not wise to be so quick to bind yourself to hearsay. You need to find out the truth by seeing it. Just like if you watch these two basketplayers play in several games, you will find the truth. Then you will not be under judgement if you decide how good they are because you witnessed the truth.

This should be the basis of how we discern these things.

peh:
it seems it would be wise not to be found among those who "speak evil of dignitaries", even if it is even remotely possible it may mean Benny Hinn

felix:
It is not wise to be so quick to bind yourself to hearsay. You need to find out the truth by seeing it.


I still think the problem here is that people here are not speaking against what we have said but what they THINK was our intentions. I dont think either of us know who Benny Hinn is. We are neither supporting or going against him.

Next thing is you probably think that I am condemning you. If you will read again completely what I said especially near the end...

if you watch these two basketplayers play in several games, you will find the truth. Then you will not be under judgement if you decide how good they are because you witnessed the truth.

Audax came out and stated his clear stance against Benny Hinn. And enlightened us on how we should go about things.

Peh came out and stated she had no stance on Benny Hinn. And enlightened us on how we should go about things.

So are we going to have to correct Audax too?

Bronzesnake, what you speak of and support is the work of the Nicolaitians...of which God hates. People do not need to go to school to learn the things of God. This is taught by the Holy Spirit. Whenever we gather together we each have some portion to share. We speak forth what we have learned from the Spirit and receive life from others who speak.

1 Cor 14:26
How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.

Scripture clearly tells us that this must be done. But it is only being done through one man. This is not a healthly functioning body.

Many people still rely on the mind. A scribe can know the bible better than anyone but can know the least of anyone concerning the things of God...Just like the Pharisees!!

People do not believe this "free for all" -as John coined- will not work. They do not believe it because they still worship God without the spirit.
1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Where two or three gather in the Lord's name, there the Lord will be in our midst. It is Lord Jesus Himself who is building the church up as we gather together and speak. If we are still in our minds, your conviction Bronzesnake, will be true. It will be unorganized and "incompetant" people will share stupid things. But we are not lead by our own minds, we are lead by the spirit. That is how we will all drink from the same spirit and worship God in spirit and truthfulness.


This is greatly affecting this nation. There are not many people who truly know and worship God. We need to wake up!! You have a name that you are living, but you are truly dead (rev 3:1)! This speaks of churches all over this nation! This nation is not blessed that there is a church on every corner...not if all of them are dead churches!


The True Church
http://www.injesus.com/Groups/ViewMessage.cfm?MessageId=0B006UH5&GroupID=3A006QBI&UCD=xyf

Brother Tom. I am fully allowing myself to be bound by scripture. If I call evil good and good evil, woe to me! I have confessed that the Word of God is living and operative. It will be done.

Then you know my integrity. That I do not favor or show any partiality to Benny Hinn. I will not call Benny Hinn evil or good because I do not know, otherwise woe to me! Hence I am not claiming Benny Hinn is good, or even that Benny Hinn is evil.

You say we(I and peh) dont understand what you all are talking about.

We are not talking about Benny Hinn committing an offense against us, rather of Benny Hinn committing an offense against God.

Brother, that is obvious. On the contrary, I think it was you who misunderstood us.

I know what you think. What me and peh have said is not in error. You cannot find it. You know there is no error in this and this is true. What you believe, however, is that we are condemning the people here for speaking against Benny Hinn. Apparently, this is what everyone here is speaking against.


So let me tell you what is my true motive and my heart. What I wrote was not in response to anyone's post but peh's. I did not even read through any other post. The revelation of that analogy and what I wrote was what I had a long time before this time. If you don't believe me this is evident in the first few posts of mine in this thread. I can testify and stand with what peh posted... this is the same idea I have had...and we have never even shared this. We have seen and felt the same thing...yet we are strangers.

The post I wrote was testimony that surely...we are empowered and taught by the same Spirit. That was first and foremost.

Secondly, in my being, I do sense that what is being done here is speaking ill...and also easily believing ill of a person of whom we really do not know. The same sense that peh had. If someone calls a man a false prophet without any further detail that is not enough to know anything. If you claim you are doing the Lord's work then you will reveal to us what would make that man a false prophet.


I have done some research on Benny Hinn. But in me, I do not know enough. I can easily let my mind conform to what these people say about Hinn, but that is not what I sense from the inner man. I do not hear that from the spirit.

You will say, "Are you just plain dumb or are you willing to follow a false prophet." I tell you...the latter is not true. But for the first... ...I dont care how you judge me. It is God who is the absolute judge of all things...who knows the true intent of man's heart.


Bronzesnake,
If you don't know, then don't argue for or against until you do know.

I am not arguing for or against anything.

[rather than to "speak evil of" them on posts]

Everyone one of you needs to read the following at least three times...and then compare this to your response.

quote from peh

Instead of finding fault in posts with public figures, perhaps we'd be better off, if we believe someone is misusing the Word, or is prophesying falsely, to follow Scriptural procedures rather than to "speak evil of" them on posts.

Procedures such as Matt 18:15 "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.' 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. "

Twice Scriptures warn us:

2 Peter 2:9-10 "the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries,.."

And Jude 1:8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries.

While some say these "dignitaries" mentioned are not of flesh and blood but spiritual, it seems it would be wise not to be found among those who "speak evil of dignitaries", even if it is even remotely possible it may mean Benny Hinn.

Brothers and sisters...now look at what you said AGAINST this. As this was peh's original intent. This was exactly what I was being led by when I first posted here some time ago.

Quote from: blackeyedpeas on Today at 06:17:55pm
AMEN PASTOR ROGER!

AND, many will join you, including me. Further, I'm not concerned about criticism while doing the Lord's work. The Bible is very specific about this, especially dealing with false prophets/teachers. SO, I'll do as the Bible commands.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Isaiah 5:20  Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
 

Brother, please show me what criticism you speak of. Challenge what I said. Examine what was said. Please read and reread my analogy. Do you believe this is the truth?

Are you using Isaiah 5:20 against me? I know that the word of God is living and powerful. If you believe this is the case, WOE to me. Woe to me if I put darkness for light and light for darkness. Woe to me if I call evil good and good evil.


I cannot know whether Benny Hinn is a true or false prophet based on what is said here. I will be safe and clear from judgement by not abiding in ad hominems and ill speaking. If Benny Hinn is a false prophet; I will not be under judgement. If Benny Hinn is a true prophet; I will not be under judgement.

Whether He is true or false his teachings cannot affect me because I do not know them! But once I know them and I find that these teachings fail and are not of God then I will know the truth. For we being sons of God, and are lead by the Spirit of God. We will clearly know it.

I speak the truth... From what is said here and on the first few sites I got from a search engine...I do not know enough to say if Hinn is true or false. I sense predispositions against Hinn. These exhortations I do not find purity in. In the day I directly say Hinn is a false prophet or true prophet...will be the day I know.

I do not feel it inside me. So I will myself stay clear of judgement before speaking evil of this man. Peh has given powerful advice. What is evil in this? Is this true? So what is it that you are speaking out against?

Consider what is written...what do you disagree with?

[They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries,.."]

Instead of finding fault in posts with public figures, perhaps we'd be better off, if we believe someone is misusing the Word, or is prophesying falsely, to follow Scriptural procedures rather than to "speak evil of" them on posts.

Procedures such as Matt 18:15 "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.' 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. "

Twice Scriptures warn us:
 
2 Peter 2:9-10 "the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries,.."

And Jude 1:8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries.

While some say these "dignitaries" mentioned are not of flesh and blood but spiritual, it seems it would be wise not to be found among those who "speak evil of dignitaries", even if it is even remotely possible it may mean Benny Hinn.  

Amen sister! I had wanted to reply to this a lot sooner. Because at the time, I just had a revelation about this matter and was very eager to share it when I read this.

Earlier in this thread...this was exactly why I questioned these people here. I asked Evangelist to tell me what prophecies were false. Just like you said sister..."perhaps we'd be better off, if we believe someone is misusing the Word, or is prophesying falsely, to follow Scriptural procedures rather than to "speak evil of" them on posts." This is what is suppose to be done. Otherwise, we are judged by God himself.


Brothers and sisters, at this point...I still do not know if Benny Hinn is a false teacher and prophet...even after coming to a site that rebuked Hinn.

What is the situation here?

Consider the following:
A prophet of God comes. People call him a heretic and a liar. Therefore, people believe that and throw out everything that man says. What if...just what if what that man is saying is a Word from God??? Do you know who is at judgement here? Can we learn something from the OT? Do we not see that the trend of Israel were to reject the words from God's prophets? Do we not see that it were the pharisees themselves who rejected the Words of God Himself, Jesus Christ?!

God does not want people to easily ill-believe in people. This is JUDGING! You will be judged in like manner. You see...even if the prophet is false you will not be accountable for thinking he was real. But you will be held accountable if the prophet is true and you speak evil of him.


Why you are or are not accountable:
Say a person says he's the greatest basketball player in the world (the truth is he's not; he is lying). However, you believe him.

Then one day you meet him and watch him play a game. You find out from this that he didnt even score a point. So he exalted himself and he is then humbled by the truth. Judgement itself fell on him. There was no need for man to make this judgement. Otherwise, it is dangerous...

Now consider a person who says he is the greatest basketball player in the world (this is the truth; he is NOT lying). You hear people speak ill of him who say he's arrogant and cant even slam dunk. You hear and accept full heartedly these ill words against him. You do not believe he is the greatest basketball player in the world; you think he is just exalted himself. So who is at judgement here? YOU are! Because you choose to accept these false and ill words against him and you believed it! And not only that but you spread this word to others and bring them under your same judgement!


So what can we learn from this?
It is not wise to be so quick to bind yourself to hearsay. You need to find out the truth by seeing it. Just like if you watch these two basketplayers play in several games, you will find the truth. Then you will not be under judgement if you decide how good they are because you witnessed the truth.

This should be the basis of how we discern these things.

Hey brother Job,

I visited your site and I am now confirmed that the first vision I got from God was true. I have sensed the need for a great spiritual and church revival. I had written a topic here entitled the "The Church" under the same Spirit. I know that God is working right now and there is going to be a great move. Many Christians are still spiritually dead.

God lead me out of the dead church last year. I am now worshiping God in spirit and truth with other brothers. I am interested in what you have to say about the Church in Laodecia...is it here already? I discussed this with a sister in a topic entitled "Refuges".

Brother, I feel that many will not receive the words of those who will speak forth the Lord's will for His churches. I believe that I will soon be in that situation as I go back home from Austin, Texas. Even some brothers I gather with have told me not to speak some of these things. I am encouraged by your words to continue to do what God first showed me.

Hey brother, in Christ we have already conquered!

It seems like talking to them is not really working and everything is in chaos. But have faith and be strong in it. You are perfect where you are...it may seem you are unable to do anything but it is through this that God will supply you with grace. We more than conquer these things in Christ and we can do all things in Christ (romans 8:37, phil 4:13). Christ is your grace, He is your strength and wisdom. Trust in Him with all your heart.

God has His will for Sacramento Ca. The gates of hades shall not prevail against it! Even though Satan is working to disrupt the entire congregation take heart; Satan can not disrupt God's work. So just keep your heart pure to God because it is God operating in you. It is God who is really doing the work (phil 2:13). Even if all the volunteers leave and it is just you; God's work can still be done through one man.

Hey sister,

I am short on time but I would like to share many more things. Your words are very encouraging to me.

Philippians 2:2
then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and purpose.

Being one in spirit and purpose! Amen! May we make Paul's joy complete!


I am happy that you find enjoyment in these. I think all brothers and sisters who come here should share something they have gained from Christ. It is from this speaking that the body is built up.

I'll give a pointer to someone else where we can find enjoyment.

There was a brother here named Gary Cook who first planted seeds of life in me at a time I was dead. His words were simple yet I felt a great sense of life in them. This was what brought me to life. He knows the spiritual man very well. He had a near-death experience back in 1974 I believe.

I know surely that scripture is true regarding this brother...that God will take the weak and make foolish the strong. I knew that Gary was talking about the things of God and not just things about God (since people can talk about someone and not know anything about him/her...like gossiping). That Gary really knew the Lord.


Also, for a long time now, I've been wanting to regularly check out the "Day-by-Day By Grace" in the Bible Study. I touched that same sense of life by reading those as I did with Gary. Just recently I checked out the site and found out that the writer, Bob Hoekstra, had a similar experience as mine!!

http://www.calvarychapel.com/livinginchrist/


We still have those questions not yet discussed. But I am busy now with finals and I should be studying right now. In fact, my sister just saw me on the computer typing this message and said she was going to tell my mother I wasnt studying. So that's a threat if I dont get back to studying. I sure hope she doesnt tell my mom anything...so please pray for me!!!

Until next monday!  

The following link can bring to light some more things...

The Church
http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=7192

This was before I had the full revelation that I was in the Church in Philadelphia. I thought that the church I was now in was the church everyone else should be in. It was also around this time that I learned that God had really taken me out of a dead church to a living church. But at this time I did not understand the letters to the seven churches.

But after understanding the seven letters to the seven churches, I found out that the Catholic and Protestant churches will exist and there is really nothing I can do about it. I believe I can only show them the door (rev 3:8 See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut).

What Allinall said at the end of that thread was partially true...that I was judging by my experiences. I certainly believe that there are overcomers and true worshippers in the Catholic and Protestant churches and not everyone applies to my experience.

However, I think the message itself is important...we need to worship God in spirit and in truth. We need oil for our lanterns so that we may be ready when the Lord comes back. That oil is God, who is in us as the Holy Spirit, that will make us shine out the light for all men. We need to be ready for the Bridegrooms return!

To the Church in Sardis

Rev 3:3
Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

[I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead.]

Hey Peh!

I am a little short on time since I'm studying for finals right now. But I'll eventually get to all the questions. I hope I can answer them clearly. I am really happy that you asked!

Are you referencing the church spoken of in Rev or a group of people who now call themselves the "Church in Philadelphia"?  Why do you say the Lord led you out of "protestant" churches?

I am referencing to the church spoken of in Revelation. These groups of people do not call themselves the "Church in Philadelphia." They do not know that I have experienced this yet. I have, in fact, never talked about this before until now.

I know that the Lord took me out of the church in Sardis into the church in Philadelphia. I had experienced this.

Revelation 3:1-3    

To the Church in Sardis
  ......I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

"You have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead." This is what I saw and this was what I felt. That on the outside people seemed alived, but inside they were dead. This was when I went to protestant churches.

Then on Christmas of last year I went to Taiwan. It was there that I had that experience with God. I actually had 3 experiences: the first one dealt with the dead church and the second one was where I touched my spirit. Before this, in my 5 years as a Christian, I had never really seen miracles. But after that second trial God opened my eyes to see His working.

After I got back to America, I was immediately lead to a group of Christians who just refered to themselves as the Church in Austin (I go to school in Austin, Texas). God had answered my prayers: that I had wanted to worship God in spirit and truthfulness. It was then that the deadness inside me was filled with life. And this life came by the Spirit.

Even after that second trial, where I had touched my spirit...I did not quite understand that I had touched the spirit. But after I met with the brothers and sisters, I learned what had happened. Before I had just assumed that the soul and spirit were the same things. Didnt think much of the 'spirit' spoken about in the bible. However, I believe it is monumentaly important...as only the true worshippers are those who worship in SPIRIT and in truth. Praise the Lord! I now live and walk by the spirit.

I am now experiencing the Church in Philadelphia. It's hard to be objective about what you are now experiencing because you are still in its process. Peh, I think you believe me but I am also writing for others so I think I'll have to prove it... (I think the posts of mine on CU is testimony to this in itself. Right before the trip to Taiwan I think I posted a thread on "The Holy Spirit." This was on Dec 10, 2004. I haven't checked but I believe there should be noticeable differences before and after that time because I was powerfully changed by that experience)

rev 3:8,9
To the Church in Philadelphia
     I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

Philadelphia means "Brotherly Love." This was what I felt, and this is eventually what I practiced when God first lead me to the church in Austin.

"I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name." rev 3:8

I know that you have little strength...
I dont think I need to prove this but this is very true in regards to my life. I have never been able to accomplish much...my will and focus is very weak.

yet you have kept my word...
After growing together with the bros and sisters, for the first time I started to really receive the word into my being. It was then that I could truly keep the word instead of just knowing it. Since I was 12 I fervently read the bible. In the next 5-6 years I just knew a lot about the bible. However I had no life, because I did not receive the word by my spirit. But I know now how...the word is truly spirit and life! I now live and hold fast to the Lord's word. Something I did not do when I simply knew scripture in my mind and not by spirit.

and have not denied my name...
I now do something very often...call upon the name of the Lord. The name of the Lord is now something I acknowledge before men. I mentioned something similar in General Theology- "Fruits of the Spirit" which was a recent post.


"I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you."

There's a pretty big story on this one. I'll try to finish it when I can...

God bless!


Sister peh, I follow your logic on the other stuff. I've gotta think about that one. It would be really exciting if that was the case! Then our time is near! That would seem like a really good reason why God would give you the prayer impressions of those refuges now.

I guess we can just keep fighting the good fight of faith in the meantime.

Judgenot:
About civil engineering I was thinking about my competance in it. You know what I came up with?

If I was ever to build a bridge, I will put up a sign before people could cross that would read, "Accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior before crossing."

I would then be doing a service for both God and the people. The people would find that to die is truly to gain (phil 1:21).  




Peh:
You asked about the Church of Laodecia

felix102, you wrote, "But I feel strongly about the Church of Laodecia coming out of a church or city of true worshippers."

I'm not sure I follow you on this.  It is intriguing but confusing as I know the church in Laodecia spoken of in REv as the luke-warm end of Christianity, so how do you see that coming out of "true worshippers"?  I'm sure I'm just missing something, but enlighten me if you care to.

I am glad you asked sister. This contains a lot of stuff.

As you know, the seven churches prefigure the "Churches" of today. The Church in Thyatira is the Catholic Church. The Church of Sardis represents the Protestant Churches coming out from Thyatira, the Catholic Church. And finally, the Church of Philadelphia prefigures the recovered Church which came out of the Protestant Church.

This was a personal experience for me. I had been a Christian since 1998. But after 5 years of being very religious, I finally noticed that on the outside, though I was a "strong" Christian, on the inside there was unbearable pain and death. I noticed this death inside me.

One day, I came across John 4:24 God is spirit and those who worship Him must worship in Spirit and in truth. I told God, I don't quite understand what the Spirit is but I want to worship you in Spirit and in truth! I then had an experience in Taiwan where I touched my spirit.

When I got back to America, God immediately lead me out of the protestant church into a body of other worshippers who worshipped in spirit and truthfulness. God lead me out of the protestant churches and into the Church in Philadelphia.

In the book of Revelation we see that the Church in Laodecia comes after the Church in Philadelphia. To me the Church in Philadelphia is the church of true worshippers...that is why I say,"the Church of Laodecia will come out of the church or city of the true worshippers" As the Church in Laodecia will come out of the Church in Philadelphia.

I believe that the Church in Laodecia has not come yet...but I am not at all sure. I believe they will come out of the Church in Philadelphia...what I call the true worshippers. So I have felt before that there will be made entire cities that live Christ day by day. But the generation after these people will find the activities of the church life to be mundane that they become lukewarm. Because of the rich church life they had before they will say they are rich and did not need anything. But they are truly lacking again. This will be the last of the Church. That may not be too far off. As I know the Church in Philadelphia is already here.

bless you sister. Keep speaking forth the will of God!

Hey Jim,

The simple act of attempting to the best of one's ability to live one's life "Christ-like" is being a cheerleader for Him.

I think I know what you mean. A simple act to bring forth Christ is to be a cheerleader. But for others, to make sure this is clear, it is by no means of our own ability that we can live Christ-like.

What will happen if we by our own ability try to live like Christ? We will try to do good works, serve others, get involve in a ministry, study the bible...but doesnt it seem that in the end we still lack something? I see many people doing this. On the outside they seem to be doing well, but on the inside it is a different story. How can we become Christ-like? Is it by what we do on the outside? Or what is happening in the inside?

When someone is sick that person can make herself look better in two ways. She can put on makeup and hide her sickness or she can take in food, vitamins, and anti-oxidants (antioxidants are so underrated  ). Which do you say is better? Things done on the outside will do nothing about that sickness. But what changes on the inside -the food and vitamins- will make her healthy on the outside...and take away the source of the sickness which is inside.

To have a Christ-like life it must be a transformation from inside out. No matter how hard you try to do it on the outside it is nothing but makeup...a facade. When give Christ who is inside you access to all the things around you, Christ will move into those areas of your life...and then Christ will take over. That will then be a Christ-like life.

Thanks Jim.

These are powerful verses.