Both Strong's Strongest Concordance and Websters Collegiate Dictionary define tribulation as an 'oppression' or 'trial' .

In the opening pages of Revelation John writes that he is here with us in our tribulation.  

Here is a thought:

The tribulation started with the ascension of Christ into heaven.  

All the apostles but John were killed and died violent deaths.  Up until Constantine declared [his version] Christianity the official religion of Rome, Christians were persecuted and killed, remember Paul stood by as Stephen was stoned to death.

Even though the Romans stopped their persecution of the Christians, the world did not and the Roman Catholic Church was all to happy to persecute anyone who did not follow THEIR doctrine but instead followed the teachings of Christ.

The United States is barely 400 years old and we have not had foreign armies invade us for almost two hundred years, so persecution to us is a difficult concept.  

When Jesus ascended into heaven the tribulation for Christians started.  When the 6th seal is opened we know [ because it is called the Day of the Lord] that Jesus is not far behind.

LinuxGeek

Saving Disney?  Why limit our efforts to just Disney?

The U.S. Supreme Court used to be moral and honest, now they are self serving and mock God.

The Episcopalian Church used to be moral, now they have a gay bishop.

Disney is just a small part of the greater apostasy spoken about in the Bible.  Let's focus on Jesus and pray we are worthy.

LinuxGeek

Public pressure does work, just look at the many attempts by Abber Crombie and Finch to sell teenage smut in their catalogs.  Each time they try Christians rally and AC&F has to back away.

Unfortunately we live in a secular world and we are only temporal.  Eastman Kodak is another company that favors homosexuals and will fire anyone for speaking against it.  So do we not get our pictures developed on Kodak film?  What about General Motors?

How about Microsoft?  They are big on favoring gays and I bet everyone here uses a PC with Microsoft Windows.  Personally I use Linux.

Here is an article from another board that posts some information on companies that support the gay agenda.  Some of these companies go so far as to demand that their suppliers NOT GIVE any money to any cause that is against the homosexual agenda.

here is the article and the board link:

http://www.asinner.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=65

We will not win the battle, God will destroy evil on this earth and we can not stpo evil. We can however be very aware of how much evil is out there and who is promoting it.

Below is a list of twenty two companies that have exceeded the expectations of Gay/Lesbian and Bisexual groups by not only instituting a non discrimination policy, but including benefits for homosexual partners as well. Some even have the audacity to demand that their vendors MUST NOT CONTRIBUTE any money to groups who oppose homosexuality such as the Boy Scouts. Having this information certainly will help me make better decisions as to what companies get my money.

Stephen



Source http://www.hrc.org/worknet/cei/exceed.asp


EXCEEDING EXPECTATIONS

While more corporations across America are implementing policies and practices that are the hallmarks of equal treatment for GLBT employees, consumers and investors, a small subset have demonstrated a commitment to equality beyond their own work forces. Twenty-two Fortune and Forbes companies with HRC Corporate Equality Index ratings have endorsed the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, a federal bill that would ban discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. They are:

Company Name


Score (percent)
Agilent Technologies Inc. 86
Apple Computer Inc. 100
AT&T Corp. 86
Capital One Financial Corp. 100
Charles Schwab Corp. 86
Cisco Systems 86
Coors Brewing Co. 86
Eastman Kodak Co. 100
FleetBoston Financial Corp. 86
General Mills Inc. 86
Hewlett-Packard Co. 100

IBM Corp. 100
John Hancock Financial Services Inc. 86
J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. 100
Levi Strauss & Co. 100
Microsoft Corp. 86
Nationwide 86
Nike Inc. 100
Oracle Corp. 71
Prudential Financial Corp. 100
Verizon Communications 86
Xerox Corp. 100


In addition to sponsoring GLBT community groups and events, at least two companies also specifically prohibit contributions to organizations that actively discriminate against GLBT people.

Lucent Technologies Inc. (100 percent) and Levi Strauss & Co. (100 percent) each require recipients of contributions from their corporate foundations to adhere to anti-discrimination guidelines, which precludes contributing to groups such as the Boy Scouts of America, which prohibits gay youth from entering their programs.

The Coca-Cola Co. (71 percent) beat back an attempt by a shareholder to remove sexual orientation from its non-discrimination policies. The company's board issued a strong statement against the resolution, which failed.

LinuxGeek

This all sounds like a debate with much strife and this of course is a sin according to the Apostle Paul.  

Tibby, please disprove this:

Jesus told one of the sinners on the cross next to Him that Today thought shall be with me in paradise.  Two things -- one, the sinner was absolutely incapable of doing anything while dying on the cross, yet by his faith had a personal assurance from Christ that he was saved and would be in paradise that day.

Two -- a car can move without an engine -- a flatbed towtruck often carrries a car when it can not move on it's own, just like the Lord Jesus carries us when we are down and broken.

If anyone can disprove what Jesus said to the sinner then you have proved works are needed for salvation.

Most importantly are we worshipping God and have we prepared to meet Him?

LinuxGeek

Tibby,

I won't continue on this with you but for the ones who do not know the truth of Roman Catholicism I will write this much;

What I wrote is based solidly on the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, and yes they do acknowledge other religions but they CLEARLY claim that there is NO salvation outside of the Roman Catholic Church.  The pope just a few years ago kissed the Quaran in public, this is certainly an acknowledgement of Islam.

While I state truth you try and refute with empty words for lack of knowledge.  I assure anyone reading, I do not have misconceptions about the RCC.  The Bible is our source of scripture and the Bible is very clear in John 3:16 anyone believing in Christ shall have eternal life, no demoniation required.

Your crusade to defend Roman Catholics is admirable, I am not out to attack them.  I have never said there is no salvation in the RCC.  I suspect you will retort to this post, but unless you can cite scripture to prove your claim, unless you can use the Catechism to refute what I have said then I assert it is you who have the misconceptions and you should turn away from Roman Catholic scholars.

LinuxGeek

Tibby

I am sorry, I have no way of knowing if you are male or female with the handle Tibby.  I did not want to assume yet I wronged when I assumed you were in the RCC.  However you still seem very bitter and I am not going to debate; I am not out to attack Roman Catholics.  I do want to reply to some of your information as it may lead others to the wrong impression of non Catholics, as catholics are believers.

lol, why is it everyone always says “Salvation is the most important thing” before starting in on Catholics?
Salvation is the most important thing to anyone, even the believers of Christ.  I would say the same thing to a muslim or Hindu

Everyone says “Salvation is the most important thing” seem to focus more on attacking the Catholics church, not saving the Catholic Church.
You seem to have that impression yet I hear of salvation from people without attacking anyone, or any church because salvation is so important. I am sorry for your experiences that cause bitterness. I too have many bitter memories that I choose not to let surface in conversation.


That is one of the reason I left  Protestantism. If I went into a room full of Protestant, and bashed Catholics, I am cheered on,
This does not happen in many churches and I personally do not know of any, not that my knowledge of a few bad churches or your knowledge of a few bad churches is sufficient to tarnish an entire body of people.

when I mention something I don’t like about Protestants in a harsh manor, my Catholic brothers shush me, and remind me they are still the Church, still Christians.
Yet the RCC catechism claims they are the only church.  There is no salvation outside of the RCC

I have a habit of ranting about what I find to be injustice in the world.
False teachers and doctrine is not the only injustice in the world.  There are abortions, homosexual lifestyles, and way to much adultery and fornication.  We are not to be of this world, but keep our focus on Jesus.

I’ve been told many times by Catholics, priest and layman a like, I am to harsh on Protestants, and that I should be kinder to my brothers.
The Arabs have an old proverb: If three men call you an ass by a saddle

I have never ONCE, not even ONCE, heard any Protestant, Pastor, Preacher, or parishioner, tell someone to stop attacking Catholics.
I have, it was one week ago.

Oh, and please stop saying ALL of those things are in the Catechism, you have several things that aren’t on that list of the Roman Catechism. A lot of it isn’t, in fact. I just double checked.
I don't believe you.  Everything I mentioned is in the modern day catechism and was taught to me or explained to me while I was in the 6 month RCIA program that the RCC teaches.  If you claim they are not there why did you not post them to refute me, instead of just saying they are not there?

The Reason I directed you to the Catholic Scholars is because you said:

Quote:
Here are some of the things that got me questioning the Roman Catholic faith, to which no priest could answer.
They can not answer those questions because to do so would require acknowledging their wrong teaching.  Their salvation is not for me, I truly wish everyone just did as Jesus instructed us. Either you are for Jesus or you are not; He could not make it any simpler.

Final note: It’s Brother. and I’m not Roman Catholic.
Again, I am truly sorry.  I did not want to upset you with assumptions, yet I made the assumption you were in the RCC.

I never said I was ROMAN Catholic, you assumed as such. I’m going to post my denomination in my sig some day.
My denomination is Jesus

There are other types of Catholic out there (not counting the Independent Nuts).
How can they be nuts and you not be?

Most of which do not believe in the Mary Doctrine, or Papal Infallible.
Yes, there are yet more factions seperating from the Church of Rome because they no longer believe in what the Vatican is spewing.  The Russian Orthodox and The Greek Orthodox split along time ago for that very reason.

Peace be with you brother, I too am a brother and we are all supposed to be one in the body of Christ.  Let's try and fulfill that.
LinuxGeek

Tibby,

The most important goal we can strive for is our salvation; Jesus said He is the way and any that believe in Him are saved.  This is important.

As for scholars I don't think asking Roman Catholic scholars about Roman Catholicism will do me any good.  They can substantiate everything I listed as most of it comes from the modern day Catholics catechism.  However they will refute that the pope is fallable when speaking from the chair, so, as Jesus did, I too leave anyone who believes something other then the word of God to themselves.  Either you accept it or you don't, it really is that simple. I don't need to ask the scholars because I read the Bible, I pray to God and He is not a liar.  All who seek shall find.

Many people are discontent with the RCC because of the points I mentioned; they are not in scripture and it certainly appears that the RCC is teaching false scripture with the exhalting of Mary, the Saints and their own doctrine.

Brother/Sister  -- I truly hope that one day you leave the RCC, but what is more important is that you believe in Jesus and do follow His commands.  

LinuxGeek

I left the Roman Catholic Church less then two years ago.  I was born into a RC family and about two years ago went through the 6 month RCIA program for confirmation; I dropped out when I decided to follow Jesus instead.  Afterwards I did much reading on Catholicism with the help of a priest from DeSalles University, a Roman Catholic college for seminarians.  I was shocked at what I learned, but not  surprised.

THIS IS NOT AN ATTACK -- THESE ARE FACTS THAT CAN BE SUBSTANTIATED, I LOOKED THEM UP, WAS TAUGHT THEM BY RCC and can refute all of them.


Here are some of the things that got me questioning the Roman Catholic faith, to which no priest could answer.  

Absolution, um, the Bible is clear, God alone forgives sin, which the RC do not deny, yet the absolution comes through the priest, you can not go direct.  Yet the BIble is clear "-In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins: (Col 1:14)"

Confession -- some sins can only be forgiven by the local bishop or even the bishop of the Arch Dioceses. Example, until 1998, our parish was not allow to forgive the sin of abortion.  It could only be done by the local bishop, nobody else.  So, my question then was this.  Suppose a young woman has an abortion and truly realises her sin, repents and wants forgiveness from God.  She comes to the parish and goes into the confesssional.  Makes the sign of the cross and recites the words used to address the priest. Then she asks forgivness for her abortion, to bad.  She would be told that she needs to come back when the bishop is in and that is on such-and-such a day.  So she leaves the church, distraught, and walks outside to get hit by a city bus, she dies right there.  Where does she go?  To heaven or hell?  According to the Catechism, and the priest that I spoke with, she goes to hell becuase she is unforgiven for her sin.

Unbaptised babies -- the priest teaching our class, his boss, and every priest I asked had one thing to say.  The babies would go to hell, but that we have to rely on the mercy of God to get them out.  

Why is is that the priest has the authority from God to give absolution for ones sins and not anyone else.  Answer from priest.  Because the priest has Christ in them.  Reply: so when I receive communion on Sunday I can turn to the person behind me and forgive them sin.  Priests reply, no I can not.   Then why do I need communion every Sunday?  Because we sin during the week and we need to come back to God.  Reply: But I thought then when we accept Christ into our heart He is there, and does not leave, so why do I need to have Him come back in every week?  Answer from priest -- don't you want Christ in you every week?  (or something similar)

Transubstansiation -- the wafer is turned into Christ.  My reply -- so when mass is finished you lock up Christ in the tabernacle until the next mass?  Priest -- No, it is your belief and faith that turns the wafer to Christ.  Reply -- but if I already believe in Christ why do I need to take a wafer and turn it into Christ?

Mary -- not co-redeemer.  Vatican is pushing this.  Jesus is the redeemer, our advocate to God.  He will not deny those that do not deny Him.  He never said that we can count on His earthly mother too.  Mary mother of God -- WOW!  God was and always is, not possible for a human to be the mother of the living God.  Mother of Jesus, yes, but when a woman tried to exhalt Mary what does Jesus say to her statement?  She says, blessed is the womb that bore you and blesses are the papst that gave you suck.  Jesus says, rather blessed is the person that hears the word of God and keeps it.  He could have said that, yes you are right and the Father sent me (Jesus) and her (Mary) so that all sins can be forgiven. He could have gone on to say that my mother is also one to believe in for eternal life.  So when Jesus says (Jn 14:6) I am the way the truth and the light, for no man cometh unto the Father but by Me, did He lie?  God forbid!!  

Christmass -- Pagan holiday given us by Constantine of Rome.  The early church fathers were honoring January 6 as the birth of Christ, even though that time of year was impossible for his birth.  Constantine thought himself the highest priest (Pontificuss Maximus) and forced the Church and the pagans to celebrate their gods on December 25th.  To this day the pope is often called the pontiff.  

Halloween -- um, all saints day, right?  We are all saints and why do we need to honor dead people.  When Jesus said let the dead bury their dead He was not referring to corpses burying corpses.  He said let the dead (non-believers) bury their dead.  It just so happens that this day is the highest and most important day of the satanic year.  And like christmass, some priests will tell you that the early church tried to usurp the local pagan traditions with the church.  Jesus preached the word of God, God does not change today, yesterday or tomorrow.  When people did not want to hear what Christ had to say He never altered the truth or God's word to try and entice people to His message.  You accept it or you don't.  Paul, the apostle was all things to all people in order to bring them to the message of Jesus, but He did not alter scripture or the message of the cross to convert the Greeks or the Romans.  Apollos used the Old Testament alone to convert skeptical jews, because the New Testament had not yet been written.

1754 cannon laws of the RCC.  Once a law they will not remove it ever.  Even the law that gives the pope the right to practice anethmas.  

Vicar of Christ -- an offical title of the pope.  All belivers of Christ are ambassadors, we die to our will and live for the will of God.  The offical catechism of the RCC is that all catholics MUST surrender their thoughts and minds to the pope -- look it up, I did. This means you can not follow Jesus, but the pope only. If one remains a catholic and does not agree with all of their rules, this by definition is hypocritical since the RCC insists all catholics strictly adhere to their teachings and their teachings alone.  Again, this is all in the catechism of the RCC.

Holy Father -- is God in heaven and for anyone to allow themselves to be called this is risking blasphemey! Holy Father is mentioned once in the Bible and it most certainly refers to God alone.  Look it up, I did.  The apostle Peter was so humbled that he insisted on being crucified upside down because he was not worthy to even be crucified being upright like the Lord God.  Peter was given the keys to heaven. Peter and the apostles rose people from the dead, no pope has ever done that.

Infallible -- the pope, when speaking from chair of Peter, OR all the bishops of Rome, when acting united (called the _oly see) are infallabile.  Yet this was often argued by popes, and many popes have reversed an infallabile rule given by their predecessor.  Does God make mistakes?

The apostle Paul considered all of his earthly possesions as dung. The pope has garments worth more then one million dollars.  Paul worked to support his ministry and the fellows that walked with him.  

Annulment -- When you are married the priest will recite from the Bible and often say that phrase they nullify with annulments.  Let no man seperate what God has joined.  I wanna know how they do it?  They have a perfectly reasonable explination.  Suppose two people get married and the man becomes a wife beater, nasty nasty stuff.  The woman can therefore get an annulment like it never happened (the kids are now illegitamate).  Yet the Bible is clear on this, if one leaves then they cause the other to sin.  That is if they are both believers.  No wife beater is a believer of Christ.  So she can leave, but she is still married and can not marry again.  Now, it goes one step further.  I can walk into a RCC and announce  I want an annullment, since I was married in a RCC, and myh reason only has to be that I had expectations that my wife did not meet.  This was explained to me by a RCC priest who was also a church lawyer, he knew church law.  I can state that when I married my wife I fully expected that after 10 years of marriage we would own our own business, and we don't.  So I want a divorce.  With much effort on the part of the church for me to reconsider, they would still have to grant the annulment according to their law.  My wife doesn't even have to know about my expectations.  Basically, you can get a divorce for what ever reason you like and the RCC permits and therefore teaches sin.

I just provided months worth of research and knowledge.  All is true and can be substantiated, look it up.  Get a copy of the Official Roman Catholic Catechism and the law of cannon.  You will be surprised.  

LinuxGeek

linuxgeek - not to be mean, but that really does nothing for me

I have been in a near similar situation which is why I posted EXACTLY what I did.

Hope you can hear.

LinuxGeek

May the peace and the love of our Lord Jesus Christ fill your heart completely, then you will know.  A general answer for a general rant.  Those who want to know listen, those who do not can't hear.

LinuxGeek

Hello Symphony and friends -- LinuxGeek here.

Yes I too remember before the crash.  I signed up in June and was one of the first ones on the board.  I met some wonderful people yet I have kept in touch with one, Jodi, a very dear friend.  The others went their own way.  The board was fantastic at first!  

I have made a few posts here and wanted to keep it a truly christian site but without the help of the admin it is hopeless, so I started my own board on my own website where only christian discussion is encouraged.  

I truly miss the wonderful conversations I had with you Symphony and other friends such as Pilgrim, groundbreaker and Stephanie.  

God willing I will again be able to spend some time here and discuss scripture and the love of Jesus Christ our saviour and Lord.  

The peace and love of Christ be with you and all friends.
God bless.

LinuxGeek

Hello my friend.

It sounds as though your question is regarding tongues and prophecy?

The bible is pretty clear on this in that some may speak in tongue and others may prophecy.  Yet the scripture is ambiguious when it comes to understanding. I think Paul explained it best when  he stated that a man speaking in tongues speaks for himself if he is not of God.

Prophecy is yet to come, tongues have already gone.

LinuxGeek

And the biggest culprit of them all is the Roman Catholic Church!

LinuxGeek