[blue print]

DW,

Thansk for reply, and it help me to rememer those verses. Now, I move inbetween the lines which is much more piercing. Below points are the implementation of news behind the news of Jesus harsh words toward Pharisee (unless u can not read it).

1. a personal question, are you ABLE to see/identify the blue print behind those Pharisee whose reject Jesus? This blue print will help us to identify our OWN shortcoming. I am developing it. Your opinion does NOT represent your church nor ministry nor denomination.

2. One well known 'argument' is the book Surprised by the Power of the Spirit: Books: Jack S. Deere, he was a professor of Dallas theology (which is reject apostle and prophet etc) and now he is with a very prophetic group where he performs miracles and PROVE that the former theology is wrong (aka apostle and prophet still exist). Peter Wagner advocate Jack Deere. Ofcourse the counter book is "satisfy by ...".

3. At end of Jesus ministry, Pharisee community is divided into two camps (forget which verse in Acts). It is obvious some Pharisee goes with new wine skin of this Jesus, other stay with the old wine skin. For me, the key is that make some Pharisee so stick with old wine skin is lack of undestanding in interpretation of Law (for us now is the Bible) and 'dishonesty' (in church, it is in form of defending own theology eventhough it is proven wrong, like point2 above).

4. If my understanding is correct, the blue print of those 'bad' Pharisee (2000years ago) is now very present in our modern church right now as point2 prove it, where people still defend own old wine skin/theology instead to embrace the new one. I do not imply that today leader is Pharisee, but the blue print behind the mind and attitude that make them can NOT accept a MORE proper theology (one todays example is is rejecting apostle and prophet). I believe that every leader of our church HAVE GOOD MOTIVATION and CONDUCT, eventhough when you are a leader of 1500 churches then you will see that some just work for money.

5. Is is possible for us to identify those blue print and open it to public in order to FREE people from (bad) theology bondage?

I expect a technical answer with deep illumination, not just a superficial one --> like saying "have faith in God" but 99% of member never get some obvious experience of FAITH (except the born again ) but simply try to fitting some co-incidents here and there as proof of (cheap) 'faith'. Unfortunately, most people will quote "hearing the word" again this is superficial

[SPIRITUAL insight that Jesus and John the Baptist HAD]

I believe that Pharisee is good man, they observe the Law and obey it strickyly.

I believe that any jews will NOT agree with Jesus and tell us that the accusation of Jesus is a FALSE one.

How can Jesus and John the Baptist tell a completely different story?

Anyone know?
1. based on historical-FACT
2. based on SPIRITUAL insight that Jesus and John the Baptist HAD!


Acts of one scribe or pharisee does not represent all of them, but Jesus appears address it for ALL of them (Nicodemus is excluded  ).

[Part1]

I observe sin from few point of views:
1. Spirit 'regulation' (God's character --> obidience is better than sacrifice, but Adam did the other way)
2. Biology/physic 'regulation' (limitation)
3. Soul <-- where out freewill sit

(Be carefull to slip into Gnostic)

Part1: It appears that sin is programmed into our gene. We are homo sapien, but how about Goliath and other homo? its appears that Blood of Jesus is only for homosapien and therefore He instruct David to terminate Goliath from earth. Comment is welcome. How about pre-Adamic race as found in fossil?

Part2: IF sin is ONLY programmed into gene and not on human spirit (spiritus/roah) then modern bio-enginering may be able to erase sin from DNA strain one day. So we do NOT need Blood of Jesus anymore, halleluyah?

FYI, demonic power MAY be able to do this on some extend (can't die physically and live in sin). I have told a proof that human (with demonic power) is able to live physically (not die) eventhough medically speaking it is impossible, and that lady was only able to died after she accepted Jesus!

Some speculation that during Great Tribulation this fenonema may come (people can't die).

Part3: SO, sin is ALSO IN human roah which is MUST BE REBORN by Holy Spirit, and (part 4) ...

Part4: Salvation of SOUL is our/human job to do like expected from Adam by God in Eden but he failed.

For me, free will of human must be put in Part4 context with constrain from biology, space-time, social, etc ... like Adam when he was in Eden, but Adam was very lucky "only one tree in the centre of garden", unfortunely for us, it is everywhere you go, it is in our very 'self' as Paul mentioned and arround, yet by grace of God we are enable to pass on some degree only.

So, Freewill (in a very narrow sense)  is still in human SOUL and God will provide the neutral circumtances for the person to choose. IF He does not provide this neutral circutances then He is NOT a fair God, and all human salvation is completely PREDESTINATED, and Judas is the hero. I do not debate on Calvinish vs Armenian.

I still believe that my mind is NOT able to contain [predestination and freewill] concept in ONE place due to SPACE-TIME (of Newton) constrain. I just accept both and apply it on demand.

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I do not like the idea to re-programming gene upon born-again, but the paralel idea is welcome.
1. God can and at will remove genetic-curse from our self and kids. If you have theseable kids then you knew what I mean
2. God may allow some genetic problem pass thru our kids like some health problem.
3. It is the perfect will of God to HEAL us as Isrealite in wilderness, aka your church must accept that there is still miracleS today, but I still questioning why God do not perform HEALING miracle is most churches and only on few? Do the doctrine behind the church has some thing to do with it?
4. I welcome modern medical to improve our biology system via good diet and medication.



Sorry for my terrible English.

[all christian read the same bible, receive the same Holy Spirit]

Last few months, I receive a blur impression*/understanding on HEART of MAN. Till today I have not (and dare not to expect to) received a full undestanding on what the most basic things, elements, basic-building-block that composes a humans heart?!

*impression --> the word ussually used among prophetic people to address the partial knowledge or not-complete-undestanding they receive from Lord, and I believe that prophetic reader know what it means. Some camp prefer to use the word "illumination", "revelation", or likes. I believe that Lord does speak to more than one people, and u may  1 of them.

For me, this question will have HUGE implication when I enter into minitistry later on (do not know when). Few huge implication that I have in mind now:
1. IF we understand the heart of man, why alot of deceivefull thing out of our heart?
   --> I believe that even most devoted christians will find how deceivefull their own heart are. For those in prophetic ministry, sometime Lord may open your 'eyes' to see like what He see
   --> By grace of Lord, God Holy Spirit allow me to 'unveil' (just as a pointer) this deceivefull heart from two friends whose all-out for the Lord, yet when Lord let them see their own heart exactly like what Lord have been seing, all of them feel so shamefull and humble and pray for repentance, and they are enabled to enter into new chapter with Lord.

2. Due to this kind of WIDE spread on deceivefullness, I believe lot of ministers (fivefold ministries, deacons, etc) are not free from it. In a larger scale, it is in form on denomination with quite sharpe differences in theology.

3. "new" (not new actually for other) undestanding derived from impression* is  all christian read the same bible, receive the same Holy Spirit how can the result is so many denominationS (not to mentions those smaller groups), so the key is in the heart (I adopt this, that christian in Africa should have some different in worshiping compare to those in Asia, but the essen is still the same: in spirit and in truth).

4. I believe that once the heart of man can be 'solved' that unitity in christendom can be expected (provied that this kind of interpretation of church unity is correct 100% as writen in John, any one know that type unity Jesus pray for?).

5. My post on this forum is a kind of self judge and I believe someone have the small unknown puzzle, or probably I my self is having a wrong impression*.


My (blur) understanding so far on things that compose heart of man are:
a. teaching-theology
b. experiences (with Lord, human, envirionment, demon, etc)
c. culture
d. analitical power of MIND
e. Enlighment of God Holy Spirit
f. Their own FIRST hand experience with Lord


I wellcome diverse well-thoughthru opinions (even IF it sounds NOT so correct according to your own believe, half-baked, not-mature, still baby, partial-knowledge, etc).


share please...

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FYI:
1. This understand on hear of man (just one of them) will help me lot in ministry later on.
2. English is not my 1st langauge, and I try my best here
3. I believe our Lord want us to free ourselve from not-so-practical-teaching (self deceived) like just simply qoute from Jer 17:9-10 without the how-to/solution, or qoute Mat 6:33 without showing how to get it (not just the 1st step into the gate of the Kingdom but the MUCH deeper into it like "of power, not just mere words". Its obvious that its very crucial that our name is written in heavenly book but its something wrong if we can not perform those miracles like the 70 did which is consider 'not so crucial as our name written in heaven', like Jesus said which one is easier: "to tell your sin is forgive" or "stand and walk"). We can adopt the most important thing like salvation but should not neglect the rest eventhough we so far (120years or more) never perform a single miracle. I prefer like BennyHinn whose exhibit salvation AND/WITH/PLUS miracle (of course some people do not like Benny), or (provided my info is accurate) one church I know where there are 9 people risen from death (last several years) yet preach "the most important is your name in is written in heaven".

hi cris !

I recomemded a very hard knowledge about DEVILS in
http://www.harvestwarriors.com/store.htm by Rebecca Brown MD.

Be aware, probably most christians can not accept the fact that devils is soo real even amongs pentecost, charismatic,

or they are OVER SENSITIVE (treat every bad things as from devil, some are due to their own ignorance)

or some are get partially correct about satan and his world.


My opinion is DO NOT TRY to contact with them nor try to know them by doing some searching from UNAUTHORIZED sources. It is correct to know from Godly sources about satan but do not get it from un-authorized sources (you will fall into devil pitfalls).


I knew that sometime, incidentical we face devils, ussual these happen:
1. You rebuke them in Jesus name: devils run away, or stay (ignore it pls)
2. You are shaking, fear    (normal man)
3. or You start to have deep interest in devils (this is BAAAD SIGN, check with your pastor  )

[Do you think it is correct for God hurt human heart while Jesus is crossed for them ?]

thanks for response, it seem I sent wrong msg ...

It is not about salvation, or human love vs God's, also it is not about ugly personality/face/body therefore no girl, nor idol the girl, no...3x ! It is not a basic question issued by most chirstian. It is not about rejection from girl, in fact most/best girls in campus and high-school are 'mine'.

I expect reader are used to be with His guidance in life ! (Again, pls we do not talk about false spirits, nor demons, etc)

Fact, eventhough His prensence and guidance is sooo real in my life (with facts and witnesses), there is ONE single thing He always say NO, about love. Every time I resist His will, my feeling of love for he girl is removed compeltely, so next day she just tasted like other girl, I even donot care if she walk of some body ! I try manyyyy timessss to resist, finally fail. One time, He warned me 2 weeks prior to presense of the cute girl !

As most christian mind, I was thinking that probably This spritis was false one, so I decided to rebuked in name of Jesus, nothing happen, pastors can not help !

What I am looking now is answer (if any in this forum) expect someone share the similar experience !

How nice IF I can quit from His hand  


Do you think it is correct for God hurt human heart while Jesus is crossed for them ?
(pls do not focus on false-side of above question)


In Jesus,
Apos

[our assumptions]

I am standing the opposite side of your friend.

1. Probably, ministry period is about to end (be sensitive to God's TIMING)
2. I think, in soul level they are match (it's VERY IMPORTANT, bcos almost 90% of life in on soul basis), BUT if the calling of the girl REQUIRES soul mate with EQUAL level in SPIRITUAL things, so it is better reconsider. EQUAL does not mean must satisfy every aspects of our assumptions of your own ministry.  (Again, I see people OVEEEEER ESTIMATING THEIR CALLING: over in duration, over in quality, over in quantity, over ...., personally I don;t like such things, probably god like this kind of servant ?)
3. IIIIF the girl has constant ministry on healing so it must be something wrong ! why such person with close communication with God can raise such 'dilema' ? or probably you donot understand her verywell ?

The ultimate answer is WHAT is her calling ?
1. timing
2. the requirements of equal spiritual quality on partner

She should be able to answer this EASILY !

Hi,

I think I should not post this, but I want share also receive some confirmation from you !

At saturday 3 jan 2004 I just ended one major strugle with God. The strugle are:

1. I want to QUIT from Christianity, buuut the presence of God is sooo strong, so after 2 major tries for 3 years, all are FAIL completely, last one at 3 jan 2004 23:00pm.

2. FYI, the way I quit is by inviting powerfull spirits from non-christ into my life, commiting sins (w/o harmfull by biology body, but spiritual yes), and therefore I expect 'automatically' kick-out Holy Spirit (bcos based on bible and some fleshy preacher that we should not comunicate with demons and sins, so it gives me good idea how to hurt God and therefore kick Him out), buuuuut God can not be foooled by such move ! He just ignore it can engage spiritual war directly with those non-christ spirits ! God teach me alot of spiritual world (by books and experiences) !

3. The major issue between me and God is 'just' this: He always prevent me from loving a girl since teen, now 30++. We can say that God might have special plan for us, but IF you experience it for more that 15years, haa .... guarantee frustation is the result (despite very strong presence of God 'everyday'). My human soul can not take it any more !


  Any of you experience such similar terrible things ?  
--> just focus on why He always block me from loving a girl ?

I expect this 'battle' has been ended today (based on signs given, but no proof yet, waiting for few weeks ahead)

Thank's to Jesus,
Apos