The site you link to doesn't even seem to be a christian one (based on a quick glance).  It describes pelagianism, but doesn't even mention the creeds

ebia,

Hey...if it was representative of either side, one or the other it would not be neutral then, would it..??

you said;

To portray it as the product of the Catholic & Eastern Orthodox churches only is misleading.

How so??

Maybe you'd like to sort out your punctuation (& spelling - I assume you mean canon), but I'll take a guess at what you mean.

The church belongs to Christ, it is His, and He does not need the church to cannonize His Word, He thru the Holy Spirit, guided men who are filled by thre Holy Spirit to not only write the book, but to preserve it, in spite of what men say or do.

Just because you believe a certain version imen cannonized is of God, doesn't change the truth of which one is the true inspired version, one bit.  You can be deceived.

Regardless, the point is that God guided the Church, the body of Christ, over some considerable period, in deciding the canon.  And he guided the same Church in formulating the Nicene Creed.

FWIW, The Westminster Confession, on the other hand, cannot claim the support of the whole church.

This means nothing, both are written by men for men, one covers the finer points, while the other is a document to settle heretical teachings, within the intsitution;  I doubt God was involved in the heretical teachings, and He didn't decide to negotiate with himself to settle the matter, with a 99 word, statement,  the Bible already declared the truth concerning the points of contention, and they never change.

So a creed or some other document, won't affect the truth one bit.



Petro

[be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.]

Joh 6:45  It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Petro,
You said-
You believe that those who are taught of God, can indeed fall out of grace, I don't!

Actually I believe that God teaches all people before they are in Grace in order that they might enter into Grace by faith.

As God teaches they either stop their ears or they hear and learn and thereby come unto Jesus.

Falling from Grace is possible only for those who are already in Grace. The Galatians are an example of this.

Gal 5:1  Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Gal 5:2  Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3  For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal 5:4  Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Gal 5:5  For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

asaph,

I am amazed, what you say, you contradict yourself, from one sentence to the next;........  do you understand what these verse are saying??

Look closely at verse 4, above, this passage concurs with Rom 3:20, and the Apostle herein is pointing out that if you believe that because you must keep the law you are (will be) justified, you are fallen out of grace;  Now anyone who can hear the truth of the teaching of the Holy Spirit, is under grace, while God is drawning him to the truth, this is the whole point of Heb 6:4-6, and it is plain you understand this by your opening sentence;

you said:

Actually I believe that God teaches all people before they are in Grace in order that they might enter into Grace by faith

It is by Grace that God the Spirit,  teachs anybody anything, but this is the drawing of the Spirit.

Faith merits nothing.

What??; Faith is a gift given by God. Anbd is what is need to believe in Jesus, which one could never do without it.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.  (Heb 11:1), without it noone can believe in Jesus; and our walk begins by faith unto faith.

Faith is our response to Gods Grace.

I am afraid I had other thoughts about you..

We wait for the hope of righteousness by faith not by works of the Law. Shipwreck your faith and see what happens.]/quote]

How does someone shipwreck his faith, please explain this to me.??  

Isn't it by believing he must observe the commandments perfectly??

(actually God forbid that you shipwreck your faith). Would you want to be responsible for someone turning from faith to the Law? To fall from Grace is to cease trusting Jesus for our salvation and to attempt to keep it by observing the Law. So it is possible to loose our salvation. However why worry, cast your care on Jesus. Just quit trying and start trusting.

It is clear to be you are unconscious to what you are writing,as if you are not reading your own text.

While you say, you believe your are saved by faith,only, you actually believe and teach,  you can lose your faith, by not observing the law, since it is transgression of the commandments, that cause you to fall from grace.

Now tell me, this is not true..

I praise you Father for showing these simple truths to both the ignorant and the intelligent. I put my trust in you for my complete salvation and do not rely one bit on my works. Thankyou for the Grace which is in Christ Jesus alone. Father if someone should try to get me to do some ceremony or be circumcised  in order to keep my saved status, I reject it outright; for you alone are my salvation!

So, tell me, how does one shipwreck his faith, while in Grace,
asaph.

If it is not, in keeping tha law, then why do you believe you can lose you salvation.

As for me trusting in the flesh??,  I think it is evident to you I am free, from such a teaching; My faith is in What He has done for me, forever, this is why I reject the idea anyone whom God saves, can ever fall from Grace, because we are held by His power unto the day of redemption, and I look forward to it, sharing this great truth, with whomsever will consider it.

God Bless,

Bro,


Petro

ebia,

you said;

The (so called) nicene creed is the product of the whole church of the time.

So what??

There's some variation in translations of it,[/quote

This is the reason I would never commit muyself to anyone, without frist reading it.

but what is this "protestant version" of which you speak?

The Westminister confession fo Faith 1646, it is not a three paragraph document, trying to articulate everything that need sto be stated, so as to leave no doubt in peoples minds, what is believed.

The creed is the product of the same early church that decided which books were sufficiently inspired to make up scripture

I am afraid you've shot your foot with this statement.

The OT was already an excepted cannon, by the year 95 AD, the NT was in existence before the Roman Catholic church, decided which books were which, officially this was not determined by them uintil ther 16th century.

- why would you believe the Holy Spirit guided the church in one endevour and not in the other.

Because the spirit abandoned this institutions when the Christians left it. Then of course it, the institution began its persecution of Christians, I sm sure you have read the history ofm it.

Anyway, either you believe it or you don't - which is it to be?

I do believe.  The inspired version. that is..........


Blessings
Petro

[quote Nicene Creed [...],  is a Semi-Pelegian statement,

   
How on earth do you arrive at that?

ebia,

It is a historical fact, the Nicene Creed is a negotiated instrument, brought about by the heretical doctrines, embraced by the  east nand west, which threatened the break up of the Roman church, the Carthaginian synod of 412  condemned Pelegius, the turbulent years within the Roman Catholic institution included their first  six ecumenical councils (325-681).

It was during the time of Augustine, when he was actually out of step with the church of his time, he stressed to much inner Christisan life and to little of the external ceremonies.  

He denied that the eucharist had any sin atoning power apart from the faith of the partaker. Aolthough he advocated asceticism, he denied that it had any value apart from transformation of life into Christlikeness.

He opposed the predominant sacramental method of achieving salvation.  

Unfortunately, his own statements about the value of baptism and his confusion between justification and sanctification contributed to the weakening of his legacy.

So although Pelegianism was condemned, a sort of semi-pelegianism won out, a system of which grace and human works were to join  in achieving salvation, within the framework of the church and the sacramental system, as it is today, both within Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

Here is a site;

http://www.sullivan-county.com/z/pelagius2.htm

explaining how it came to be, actually this site is pro semi peligianism, as I see it.

The Nicene Creed, which is endorsed by these intitutions, if read, very carefullly, can be interpreted, by both camps, as it suits them, thus the peace between them.

Petro

[Swedenborg]

Pardon my ignorance, but who is Swedenborg, and why should anyone believe what it has to say, over what the scriptures speak of plainly??

If this guy has anything to do with the Lutheran church, say no more...........


Petro

[we know the scriptures are.]

Do you subscribe to the Nicene Creed or not?  It's quite clear about "begotten NOT made", so either there's something funny going on in translation, or Peter didn't know the full story at that point.  (I'm betting on the latter.)

Heresy??  Not quite..

If it disagrees with the creed, it's heresy.

ebia,

You place to much emphasis on what man, subscribes to, the Nicene Creed finally settled on by the eastern and western Roman Catholic institution,  is a Semi-Pelegian statement, you can have it as far as I concerned, but if you are reffering to the Protestant version, I believe it.

But, the reality of it is this, it is not inspired, but we know the scriptures are.

So when it comes to believing scripture over man's confessionals, I will take the scriptures hands down every time.



Blessings,

Petro

[ETERNAL]

I hear what you say, and agree, concerning how "FAITH" was obtained.

It is quite an altogether different message, once one starts to examine, what is taught by this camp.

And,  as soon as you say, that the gift, which presumably you acquired by faith, can be lost, and is not ETERNAL, I disagree, because this disagrees with what is wrtten.

And therefore requires dissection, for your benefit..

The flaw, is found in what it was you actually believed, because of what is said  by those who claim, "ETERNAL LIFE" is not ETERNAL, the emphasis and focus of these, is what one did, and what one does, to eventually get there.

This then is evidence, that claiming the possession maybe a presumption, because it is based on ones own "works".

The dissection then, is beneficial, beacause one  then can then examine the sobering aspect of what the word actually teaches.

Either all are dead or none are dead, before faith comes.

This is clearly seeing in the teaching concerning Lazarus, Jesus had to plainly state "Lazarus is dead" (Jhn 11:14), because his disciples, didn't believe he was.

Ole, Lazarus only heard the voice of Jesus, when it was given him (Jhn 3:27) from above to hear, the words of Jesus are heard only by those to whom it gransted that they may hear.
 
This is the nut of the teaching.  Only those whom the Father draw, can hear, because "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God." (Rom 10:17)

Did you hear him, because you were not totally dead, or, just a little dead??

Talk about speaking out of both sides of the mouth!

Eph 2:1, clearly says;


And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins:

It is a given fact all who [/b]were dead[/b] are made alive, in Christ, and receive faith, because of His righteous works, and nothing else, however it is not true at all, that one who has been given to the Lord Jesus, by the father can be lost, according to Jesus himself, who says;

Jhn 6
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The WILL of God, is the deciding factor in this matter, not our will..

Quite a difference, wouldn't you agree??


Blessings,
Petro

Petro my Brother,
Remember what Jesus said, "They shall all be taught of God." If english words have any meaning, and they do, the "all" means just that "all". Now, a teacher has thirty students all sitting there in a classroom, but not all are hearing and learning from the teacher. Lets suppose the teacher says, "I want you all to leave right now. Those that were hearing get up and leave and those that did not hear stay. They think those others are acting out of line but they are the ones out of line themselves. This is how it is with the gospel call.
Whosoever means whosoever, all means all and everyone means everyone.
As I said earlier there is no merit in faith itself but only in what faith holds. We are held and hold by our faith. God's grace is useless if there is no faith. This is the mystery of Godliness. Grace came first. Faith came as a result of hearing. They shall all be taught of God. Some were not listening. Some, who did listen, later decided to add the Law to their faith and fell from grace. What is so difficult about this? A child can understand it. What makes you think that because I believe this I somehow  merit this grace, when faith is just a response to the unmerited favor of God? Cain could have exercised faith, just as Abel did. Abel trusted, Cain did not. They were both taught of God. This is Bible 101.

All praise goes to God!

asaph

asaph,

This is where the dog knot is in these teachings, you espouse to.

You believe that those who are taught of God, can indeed fall out of grace, I don't!

The hypothetical you give, reveals where your error is.

They who are taught of God, believe God, and in doing so, God then gives them to the Son, the Holy Spirit, giving and equipping them, with everything necessary to comne to svaing faith in Jesus, (these are the things which we have been speaking of) trusting, believing, grace, faith, eternal life, being sealed by the Spirit of Truth.............growing in faith and so on.....etc.

From your vantage point, in being taught in this classroom, you already rest in unbelief, which contradicts the very words of Jesus, He says;  I give them eternal life, and threy shall never perish; you say they can fall out of grace, and perish.

From my vantage point, these whom you say can fall out of grace; I simply see, as never having possessed grace, beacuse of unbelief, afterall the same teaching is given to all, their belief  (and who knows what the object of their belief is)
is not mixed with faith, because they never received it.

This fits perfectly with the passage at Heb 6:4-6, wherein these, were privileged to sit under the tutelage of the Spirit of God, but in the end rejected the truth of the teaching, this is why they, can never be brought back to repentance.

The Faith which is of God, should produce understanding in Gods people, especially of these doctrines which are the basis for the foundation to ones own portion of the manner in which one builds, on the "foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;" (Eph 2:20)

We have to accept one another as brethern in Christ, no matter how weak ones faith  may be, we share this things, to strengthen each other, so long as the brethern who declare themselves to be children of God, are not involved in giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; this takes discernment.

The teaching that the saved lose their salvation, borders on this very thing, and turns the Gospel of Grace into a Gospel of Grace and Works.

Because it practically denies, the blood that bought them.

Christians  who name the name of Christ need to take heed and depart from this evil thing.  I say this, because everything that is not of FAITH is sin.


God Bless,

Petro

Petro
Been called many names before, never brolove. Well, have a good one

Wreck N Sow,

Sorry about that, as You can see, I modified the post, so as to give you credit for the post, I refernce.

And I modified the verse I quoted, Heb 8:1-2.

God Bless,

Petro

["book of life"]

author  DareDevil


Now is there any truth to the statement that the ten commandments will be used to judge men, on judgment day??

The answer is NO;


 Then you are saying the Ecclesiates 12:13,14, as well as James 2:10-12 are dead wrong scriptures ?

What I am saying is, the Law does not apply to them that are not under the law, and this would include anyone who is born of God.  Beacuse they are under Grace.

Whoever works, does dispise to the Spirit, and this is what is the real blasphemy spoken of by Jesus.


 I see...then the scripture that says: "Work out your own salvation", (Philipians 2:12)...is also dead wrong ?

This verse has nothing to do with the Law.

At any rate, all men will be judged according to their works.

And only those who are of the same faith as Abraham, have their names written into the "book of life"

 AND ABRAHAM KEPT GOD'S COMMANDMENTS, ( Genesis 26:5).

Well lets take a look at Gen 26:5;

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

You posted;

posted by daredevil, as opening topic

The 10 Commandments (Exodus 20:3-17),  are the standard ...to be used in the Judgment Day of God, (Ecclesiastes 12:13,14.....James 2:10-12).

My reply was to yours and wreck and sows, comments concerning the 10 Commandments, your statement is not accurate, Abraham didn't keep the 10 Commandments, because the ten Commandments were no yet given,yet;  in fact the ten Commandments were not given until 500+ years later, and where there is no law there is no trangression.(Rom 4:15)

And above all this is that Abraham, was justified by faith and not by keeping tha Law. This is made clear by the verses I shared with you.

As for judgement at the house of God, it cannot be the 10 comandments either because, all believers are no longer under the Law of Sin and Death , but under the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ, which sets every believer free from the Law of Sin and Death. (Rom 8:2)
 
But the 10 commandments are refered to, in scripture, as the law of liberty, (James 2:12).

While this passage refered to does speak of the ten Commandments , it is speaking of the spirit and not the letter of the law, The Law when broken demanded retribution, and that was death (the shedding of Blood), but since we are under Grace, because Jesus paid the penalty for our transgression, we are set at liberty from the demands of the Law, therefore we live unto a higher law, and as I mentioned it is the Law of Faith.

No where in all scripture is the 10 commandments ever called the law of sin and death.

They are at Rom 8:2..
 

The law of sin and death comes into effect when anyone breaks any of the commandments of God.
 As scripture says: If you break just one of the commandments of God...you break them all', (James 2:10,11).
 And so, those who ignore the 4th commandment, the 7th day Sabbath are also guilty of lying...stealing, etc.

Rom 8
3  For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4  That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5  For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8  So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9  But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10  And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11  But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


Sorry, I had to post this unfinished, quickly,  since my computer started to do its monthly defragmentation maintenance, it usually takes about an hour, so, I will try to finish it.


Anyhow, As I had stated, if you are a Christian, the law cannot slay the new spirit you possess, since Jesus redeemed you from the effects of the law, and therefore Christians live untoi a higher law, the Law of Faith.

So what is the conclusion of this matter;

Those who are saved are...." justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


 YES...also they are the ones who obey God's commandments,Revelation 12:17 and Rev. 14:12...."HERE IS THE PATIENCE OF THE SAINTS, THOSE WHO KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD...AND, HAVE THE FAITH OF JESUS".

No disagreement from me there, Christians should keep and obey the commandments, for a witness and testimony to the world, and for conscienceous sake, however the ordinances are another matter, they have been abolished, this is clear in Ephesians 2:15.

You can argue, the Sabaath must be observed, refering to Saturday, as the day which is the Lords Day, but the Lords Day, in the NT is a New Day, refering to the First Day of the Week, which is the Day of the Resurrection.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. (Rom 3:24-28).
 

aLSO, WE MUST BALANCE THAT WITH..."FOR NOT THE HEARERS OF THE LAW ARE JUSTIFIED...BUT THE 'DOERS' OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED", (Romans  2:13).

You are right, and if you follow your line of reasoning, the law will lead the hearers and doers of it, to Jesus, and when faith comes, then they (the hearers and doers) are no longfer under the law, (see Gal 3:22-24)

Here let me postr them;

Gal 3
22  But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23  But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24  Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25  But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

And above all else, the law is not of faith, but the man that doeth them all shall live in them, (Gal 3:11-12)

And that faith is a gift of God Eph 2:8-9.
 

BETTER READ THAT AGAIN....IT IS GRACE THAT IS THE GIFT OF GOD.

FAITH COMES BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD", ( Romans 10:17). Study of scripture is what gives faith.

Ohhhh.......See Rom 12:36, 1 Cor 12:8-9,

Consider, Gal 3:22-25, above, you would be hard pressed to prove that somehow, you produced faith, note especially verse 22, faith comes from God, because it is given to them whom God gives to his son, and it states plainly at this verse, FAITH is given to them that believe, and even belief is a gift given by God, but most importantly, Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith (Heb 12:2).  It is not something, one produces nilly willy.



Blesings,

Petro

[he shall save his people from their sins.]

Ollie,

It is a given fact that those whom believe God, are the elect, this is undeniable.

On the other hand, the elect are those, whom the angel referred to when he said to Joseph;

Mat 1
21  .................and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

And, who are his people except them who are given unto Him, of the Father.

you said;

God does not elect one to believe, but rather believing elects one to God.

I don't know what you mean by this.., but one can see clearly that for the sake of Christ, even to believe on HIM, is given on the behalf of Christ.

Phil 1
29  For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him, but also to suffer for his sake;

And finally, Paul says this about the elect of Christ;

Tituts 1
1  Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2 Th 2
13  ................................, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

I have focused in on the verses, which show, without a shadow of a  doubt, that the elect have been chosen by Grace, thru faith, which is a workd and gift of God, who gives and equips every believer in Him, with everything He needs to be saved, even the belief which is necessary to apprehend the truth.

That God, might be glorified in all things..



Amen??


God Bless,

Petro

[believeth not on me]

A4C, Bro Love,  I concur, Amen

Jesus made it clear;

Jhn 12
43  He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.

And the Apostle wraps it up, by saying:

Phil 1
29  For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

I post these things, pointing them out (dissecting them as asaph, says, for the sake of my weak brethern, trusting that the scriptures will become their focus and not their works)

God Bless,

Petro

[without[/b human hands (Heb 8:1-2) which the Lord pitched, and not man, where He intercedes day and night without resting for His own, ALL THAT THE FATHER has given to Him, against the accusations of the evil one (Rev 12:10)The Law which Christians live by is the Law of Faith (Rom 3:27) the same faith which is given, when repentance is granted (Acts 11:18) to everyone who comes to God, diligently seeking Him (Heb 11:6)Good habit is to listen carefully, be quick to hear and slow to speak..God Bless,PetroPS I modified this post, having left out the word out of "without" human hands, above, I emboldened it, I am surprised noone caught that error.. Petro]

Wreck n Sow,

No, that is not what I said , at all..

You are wrong, because you read between the lines and added, what you wanted to add to what I wrote.

You said;

 posted by Wreck N Sow,
HEY PETRO,according to you theren is no sinners. Sin is the transgression of the law(according to scripture). You say there is no law.

I never said the Law did not exist, Transgression of the the law is sin, this is clear (1Jhn3:4)

What I said, we are no longer under the Law of Sin and Death, and even gave the verses, which state this.

The Law of Sin and Death, does not have the power it had before the gift was given, and can no longer rule over Gods children,

Why you might ask??

Because God knows them that are His, and Jesus, our High Priest ministers 24/7 at the alter in the  tabernacle not made without[/b human hands (Heb 8:1-2) which the Lord pitched, and not man, where He intercedes  day and night without resting for His own, ALL THAT THE FATHER has given to Him, against the accusations of the evil one (Rev 12:10)

The Law which Christians live by is the Law of Faith (Rom 3:27)  the same faith which is given, when repentance is granted (Acts 11:18) to everyone who comes to God, diligently seeking Him (Heb 11:6)

Good habit is to listen carefully, be quick to hear and slow to speak..

God Bless,

Petro


PS   I modified this post, having left out the word out of  "without" human hands, above, I emboldened it, I am surprised noone caught that error..  Petro

[ETERNAL]

I hear what you say, and agree, concerning how "FAITH" was obtained.

It is quite an altogether different message, once one starts to examine, what is taught by this camp.

And,  as soon as you say, that the gift, which presumably you acquired by faith, can be lost, and is not ETERNAL, I disagree, because this disagrees with what is wrtten.

And therefore requires dissection, for your benefit..

The flaw, is found in what it was you actually believed, because of what is said  by those who claim, "ETERNAL LIFE" is not ETERNAL, the emphasis and focus of these, is what one did, and what one does, to eventually get there.

This then is evidence, that claiming the possession maybe a presumption, because it is based on ones own "works".

The dissection then, is beneficial, beacause one  then can then examine the sobering aspect of what the word actually teaches.

Either all are dead or none are dead, before faith comes.

This is clearly seeing in the teaching concerning Lazarus, Jesus had to plainly state "Lazarus is dead" (Jhn 11:14), because his disciples, didn't believe he was.

Ole, Lazarus only heard the voice of Jesus, when it was given him (Jhn 3:27) from above to hear, the words of Jesus are heard only by those to whom it gransted that they may hear.
 
This is the nut of the teaching.  Only those whom the Father draw, can hear, because "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God." (Rom 10:17)

Did you hear him, because you were not totally dead, or, just a little dead??

Talk about speaking out of both sides of the mouth!

Eph 2:1, clearly says;


And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins:

It is a given fact all who [/b]were dead[/b] are made alive, in Christ, and receive faith, because of His righteous works, and nothing else, however it is not true at all, that one who has been given to the Lord Jesus, by the father can be lost, according to Jesus himself, who says;

Jhn 6
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The WILL of God, is the deciding factor in this matter, not our will..

Quite a difference, wouldn't you agree??


Blessings,
Petro

[made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.]

Acts 2
36  Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

This verse speaks of Jesus's glorification..
 

Heresy??  Not quite..


Interlinear reads as follows:

Acts 2
36  Assuredly therefore let know all [the] house of Israel that both Lord and Christ Him God made, this Jesus whom ye crucified.

It is not speaking of God creating Him, nor making Him a Lord and Savior, this statement is directed to the Jews.

They had crucified Gods annointed one, and the coming of the Hole Spirit was evidfence thyat Jesus had been exalted in the heavenlies (see Jhn 7:39)

[every word]

The Bible is the very word of the living God.

None of it is inaccurate, it is all true, and both literally true both in the physical and spirtual woelds.

To claim otherwise is to deny it.

And it is all that Christians need, since it given by:

2 Tim  3
16  .................. inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17  That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


And finally, that men might know that;

It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Thou we may not have every word ever spoken by God, we have enough..



Blessings,

Petro