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 The following bold printed paragraphs were taken from a rapture web site which Paul2 provided a link for.
 Following that I have added some interesting facts...

Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy. (DANIEL 9:24)

Gabriel spoke the 70 weeks prophecy to Daniel. Daniel was praying to God (DANIEL 9:1-19) asking him what is his future plan for Israel because the 70 years of captivity of Israel by Babylon (JEREMIAH 25:11-12) were drawing to an end. God sent Gabriel to reveal his plans for Israel. Daniel 9:24 reveals that the 70 WEEKS were for ISRAEL ONLY. Look at the scripture - SEVENTY SEVENS ARE DECREED FOR YOUR PEOPLE (Daniel's people - Israel) AND YOUR HOLY CITY (Jerusalem). Seventy sevens are 490 years on Israel's prophetic timeline. After this Israel's transgression will be finished, Israel's sin will be put to an end, everlasting righteousness will be brought in, vision and prophecy will be sealed, and the most holy (Millennial Temple) will be anointed. All this will happen after Jesus Christ comes back and the Jews will look on the one "whom they pierced. (ZECHARIAH 12:10)"

Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. (DANIEL 9:25)

The decree to rebuild and restore Jerusalem is none other than the one given to Nehemiah in Nehemiah 2:1-10 by Artaxerxes. Here Nehemiah asks the Persian king if he can go to Jerusalem and rebuild it. Sir Robert Anderson in his book THE COMING PRINCE said, "The Persian edict which restored the autonomy of Judah was issued in the Jewish month of Nisan. It may in fact have been dated the 1st of Nisan, but no other day being named, the prophetic period must be reckoned, according to a practice common with the Jews, from the Jewish New Year's Day. The seventy weeks are therefore to be computed from the 1st of Nisan B.C. 445." Later Sir Robert Anderson computed the date to be March 14, 445 B.C. FROM THE ISSUING OF THE DECREE TO RESTORE AND REBUILD JERUSALEM UNTIL THE ANOINTED ONE, THE RULER, COMES, THERE WILL BE SEVEN 'SEVENS,' AND SIXTY-TWO 'SEVENS.' So exactly 483 prophetic years (7 X 7 = 49 years; 62 X 7 = 434 years; 49 + 434 = 483 years) the Anointed One will come. The Messiah was of course JESUS CHRIST and the only time in his three year ministry that he was publicly proclaimed as Messiah or King was when he rode into Jerusalem on a young donkey (colt or foal of a donkey) riding alongside his mother not knowing that the one that her son is carrying is the KINGS OF KINGS AND LORDS OF LORDS. When Jesus came into Jerusalem and people were putting palms on the floor, it fulfilled Zechariah 9:9 and Daniel 9:25 to the date (April 6, A.D. 32). Later Jesus wept because the Jews didn't recognize the time of the Messiah's visitation (70 weeks prophecy) and because of this Jerusalem was destroyed in A.D. 70 according to Jesus' prophecy in Luke 19:41-44.

After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler that is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. (DANIEL 9:26)


490 years after the birth of Abraham the Passover occurred -  490 years after Passover, Solomon's temple was built - 490 years later, the rebuilding of Jerusalem took place - exactly 483 after that, Jesus died on the cross... Where's the missing seven years? the final "week" from Daniel's prophecy is the tribulation period. The prophetic clock stopped when Jesus died on the cross. The clock will not start the final seven year countdown to His second coming until after the rapture takes place.

 Discuss...

 Bronzesnake

Whats to discuss, God said it, I believe it. :)

Bronzesnake posted:
"490 years after the birth of Abraham the Passover occurred -  490 years after Passover, Solomon's temple was built - 490 years later, the rebuilding of Jerusalem took place - exactly 483 after that, Jesus died on the cross... Where's the missing seven years? the final "week" from Daniel's prophecy is the tribulation period. The prophetic clock stopped when Jesus died on the cross. The clock will not start the final seven year countdown to His second coming until after the rapture takes place."

BigD responds:
FYI, the prophetic time clock did not stop when Jesus died on the cross.

The prophetic time clock stopped when God set the nation of Israel aside after the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7. God then raised up the Apostle Paul, in Acts 9, to usher in this present dispensation of grace. Then God showed Peter in Acts 10 that the Jews and Gentiles were now on equal footing and that the Jews could no longer consider the Gentiles "unclean". (The Jews are now set aside just as the Gentiles were at the Tower of Bable in Genesis 11. That is what put the Jew and Gentile on equal footing and without distinction. (See Romans 11:7-12).

The 70th week of Daniel (the Tribulation) started at Pentecost as per Acts 2:15-20. Peter is quoting Joel 2:28-32 almost word for word. Joel, in those verses, is speaking of the Tribulation spoken of in Daniel 9.

The Tribulation will resume with the rapture of the Church, the Body of Christ. Christ will return after the Tribulation period had run its course.

God Bless:
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 That was taken straight from the bible of BigD because God's bible has a completely different, true version.

 

 Ask yourself this question BigD... What is the difference between a Jew and a gentile? then ask yourself this question...who were the Jews and where were they at the time that the "gentiles" were "set aside" at the tower of Babel?

 
 So the tribulation isn't seven years as God has told us? according to your "BigD" bible, it's been over 2,000 years.


 Oh, wait a minute... if the tribulation started over 2,000 years ago, and now your telling me it will "resume" with the rapture...when did it stop?  ??? Where does God tell us that the tribulation starts then stops?  ???

You are seriously confused my "young whipper snapper" friend.

Bronzesnake

Often times when i ask questions in prophecy thread they are just plainly ignored. Being stubbern i will try again. :P


In the above time lines which dates are used? the date of completation of  Solomon's temple the begining  the dedication?

How long did it take to rebuild Jerusalem?

Seems the building of Solomon's temple took about 7 years...


 

question...if the seventieth week has begun, then when was the signing of the covenant between the antichrist and Israel for a period of one "week". It hasn't happened yet...and following Daniel's timeline. the 69th week ended on the day of Christ's triumphal entry. The prophetic time clock actually stops when the 69 weeks are up. Notice Daniel says NOTHING of the Church during that time...and remember that the OT prophets were in the valley and could not see the church age. When daniel was given his 70 weeks prophecy, he was sure that the 70th week would continue right on track...however, if that's the case, then i ask again where is the Antichrist...we should already be in the Millenial kingdom. YET, from the period of the decree to rebuild the wall and Jerusalem there is only one decree in Scripture that fits the 69 weeks and that is the decree from Artaxerxes to Nehemiah in 444 b.c. In Nehemiah 2:1--8 i believe. that gives 483 years until the 'cutting off' of the messiah, referring to His death. Notice the decree was in the month of Nisan, which coincides with the month of Jesus' death. so 483 years after the decree, based on a 360 year prophetical calender as the prophets used, it brings us to the day of the Triumphal entry into Jerusalem.  Thus ending the 69th week.

Reba, the decree to rebuild the temple and the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, look in Nehemiah 2:1-8 where Nehemiah petitions Artaxerxes. Artaxerxes grants his petition in 444 b.c. i believe...i've read 445 b.c. also, but i'm sticking with 444. From that period based on 360 prophetical years as Daniel always uses. We see that in Daniel that there are 2 princes. Messiah the Prince, and the prince who is to come in verse 26. these are two different people. verse 26 coincides with the destruction of the temple in 70 a.d. HOWEVER that was NOT the beginning of the 70th week. It says the PEOPLE of the prince...not the prince himself. We see in verse 27 that the focus shifts the the prince who is to come...speaking of the antichrist. and he confirms a covenant with many for one week...thus BEGINNING THE 70TH week of daniel. And then breaks the covenant with the abomination of desolation in the middle of the 7 years. Note the parallels with the antichrist. Alot of people say this person was Titus the roman, but It was not, because Titus never signed a treaty with the Nation of Israel. He couldn't have because the Nation of Israel DID NOT EXIST at that time. Thus blowing the 70th week beginning 2000 years ago out of the water. Another proof that this isn't the 70th week is Christ relates the main events of this final week with His Second Coming....and we see that He hasn't come yet. Thus the time frame from the end of the 69th week and the beginning of the 70th week must have a period for the Church.  So thus the 70th week has yet to begin, and the 69thj week has long been over...to give us Gentiles a time to be saved. Hope this has been helpful. God Bless

Joshua

Bronzesnake:
BigD posted:
FYI, the prophetic time clock did not stop when Jesus died on the cross.

The prophetic time clock stopped when God set the nation of Israel aside after the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7. God then raised up the Apostle Paul, in Acts 9, to usher in this present dispensation of grace. Then God showed Peter in Acts 10 that the Jews and Gentiles were now on equal footing and that the Jews could no longer consider the Gentiles "unclean". (The Jews are now set aside just as the Gentiles were at the Tower of Bable in Genesis 11. That is what put the Jew and Gentile on equal footing and without distinction. (See Romans 11:7-12).

The 70th week of Daniel (the Tribulation) started at Pentecost as per Acts 2:15-20. Peter is quoting Joel 2:28-32 almost word for word. Joel, in those verses, is speaking of the Tribulation spoken of in Daniel 9.

The Tribulation will resume after the rapture of the Church, the Body of Christ. Christ will return after the Tribulation period had run its course.

Bronzesnake responded:
That was taken straight from the bible of BigD because God's bible has a completely different, true version.

BigD replied:
The Bible I use as my primary Bible is the old Scofield KJV. (I have 5 other translations that I also use occasionally,)  Many that study the Bible use the old Scofield. Its the one I grew up with.

According to my Scofield Bible, Daniel 9:20-27 speaks of the 70th week (Tribulation period).

In Joel 2, we have Joel speaking of that period. Verse 31 calls it "the great and terrible day of the Lord" (Tribulation).
28  And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Luke 24:45 "The opened he (Jesus) their (disciples) their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures."

In Acts 2, at Pentecost, we read in verse 4: "And they were ALL filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

So we have Peter, at Pentecost, telling his listeners what is happening. He is quoting Joel 2:28-32 almost word for word.
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16  BUT THIS IS THAT WHICH WAS SPOKEN BY THE PROPHET JOEL;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:  
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

Looks to me like the signs of the Tribulation were already beginning to appear. With Peters understanding of the Old Testament Scriptures, that Jesus gave him, he knew exactually where he was in the time table of prophesy. After all, wasn't he speaking "as the Spirit gave him utterance"?
-----------------------------------
BigD posted:
(The Jews are now set aside just as the Gentiles were at the Tower of Bable in Genesis 11. That is what put the Jew and Gentile on equal footing and without distinction. See Romans 11:7-12).

Bronzesnake responded:
Ask yourself this question BigD... What is the difference between a Jew and a gentile? then ask yourself this question...who were the Jews and where were they at the time that the "gentiles" were "set aside" at the tower of Babel?

BigD answers:
At the time of Genesis 11 (when God set the Gentiles aside) there was no such thing as a Jew. God raised up Abram (Genesis 12:1-3) and made an unconditional promise to him that the families (nations) of the earth would be blessed through his seed (Israel). The Israelites (Jews) became God's chosen people, and if Gentile wanted to serve the true and living God, that Gentile had to become a Jew (proselyte.) Before the nation of Israel was set aside, there was a "middle wall of partition" between the Jew and Gentile. Before Israel was set aside, The Gentiles were "...aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promis and having no hope, and without God in the world" (Eph.2:12).
---------------------------------
BigD posted:
The 70th week of Daniel (the Tribulation) started at Pentecost as per Acts 2:15-20. Peter is quoting Joel 2:28-32 almost word for word. Joel, in those verses, is speaking of the Tribulation spoken of in Daniel 9.

Bronzesnake responds:
So the tribulation isn't seven years as God has told us? according to your "BigD" bible, it's been over 2,000 years.

BigD replies:
I said it started. However, the prophetic time clock stopped with the setting aside of Isreal. That didn't happen until after the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7. That is when the Tribulation was interrupted. Then God raised up Saul/Paul, in Acts 9, and ushered in this dispensation of grace.
----------------------------------
D posted:
The Tribulation will resume with the rapture of the Church, the Body of Christ. Christ will return after the Tribulation period had run its course.

Bronzsesnake responds:Oh, wait a minute... if the tribulation started over 2,000 years ago, and now your telling me it will "resume" with the rapture...when did it stop?   Where does God tell us that the tribulation starts then stops?  

BigD responds:
Yes, the prophetic time clock stopped after the stoning of Stephen, and the setting aside of the nation of Israel.
------------------------------
Bronzesnake continues:
You are seriously confused my "young whipper snapper" friend.

BigD responds:
I will be more then happy to change my views if you can SHOW ME from Scripture that Joel in chapter 2:28-32 is not speaking of the Tribulation and that Peter in Acts 2:15-20 is WRONG in what he said.

Brother, I am still in the learning mode, so TEACH ME. I'm still young enough to learn.  (It sure feel good to have someone refer to me as a "young whipper snapper"). THANKS.

God Bless.
Live WEll, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

Thanks for the history lesson at_the_cross

I have nothingagainst what you said...you're right Scripture does point to the voice of one crying in the wilderness...however, the voice of the one crying out in the wilderness is the forerunner of the Messiah...the FIRST time He came. I've yet to see waht connection John the Baptist had with the Second coming of Christ. It doesn't say in Scripture that there is a 2000+ year gap...however it seen in the OT prophets that they did not see the period known as the times of the Gentiles. That's clear in Daniel's prophecy. You're right it does say in Daniel 9:24, however it says 70 weeks are determined upon the people Israel and the City of Jerusalem. Notice it says "To finish the transgression, to make an end of sins, to make reconciliaiton for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness. To seal up vision and prophecy. the only thing that has been done is the end of sins has been accomplished with the death of Jesus Christ. The forgiveness of sin has been accomplished...however, everlasting righteousness (The Kingdom) has yet to be established with Christ as the Anointed. This hasn't happened, because the Times of the Gentiles has yet to finish. Also known as the dispensation of the age of Grace. When this age finishes (the church age) God will then turn His attention back to Israel and His prophetic clock and the 70th week will begin with a signing with the covenant of the nation of Israel. Revelation does use the same numbering system in describing 3 1/2 years. This is evident in the number of days the Two Witnesses have to preach. 3 1/2 years they will preach. Then according to Scripture, they will be killed, then ressurected. I gotta run now, but i'll be back to check on this later on. God Bless

Joshua

  You dont believe Jesus Christ is annointed?   Do you believe He is the High Priest?

I have always found this odd..... much talk of 3 1/2 years in 'prophecy' but it is never connected with the 3 1/2 years of Christ's earthly ministry....

Jesus Christ is anointed by God...however the usage of the words in Daniel gives hint that the Jews would be the ones to Anoint Him King. Notice the list of things that Israel has to accomplish by the end of the 70 weeks. To Anoint the Most Holy. Jesus has been anointed by God, However, Israel doesn't see HIm as Messiah, so they as a nation have yet to anoint the Holy One. That's evident in the fact that there is no one in Israel to Anoint...at least in their present State. That's why the Nation of Israel must come to repentance and be restored, then they can see Christ as Messiah and Anoint Him the Holy One, the leader of their nation. Another thing, the 3 1/2 years of Jesus ministry had none of the wonders that Revelations speaks about. So I don't see a connection. Maybe someone else can and provide enough Scripture to support this connection, but i don't see it at the moment...Didn't mean to cause any  confusion. God Bless

Joshua

John 12:13

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
KJV

Mark 11:9-10

9 And they that went before, and they that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord:

10 Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.
KJV

Matt 21:4-9

4 All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,

5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

6 And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them,

7 And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon.

8 And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way.

9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.
KJV




Joshua,

Does the land make a nation? Or as the Word says in Peter...

1 Peter 2:9-10

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
KJV

Brothers and Sisters,

YEAH! We have the makings of another excellent and hopefully peaceful discussion.

I simply want to add two cents worth now and enjoy the discussion.

1 - The Kingdom of God and the Millennial Kingdom on earth are two completely different truths. Christians already belong to the Kingdom of God, and the Kingdom of God lives in our hearts. For Christians, JESUS is already the LORD OF LORDS AND THE KING OF KINGS. JESUS will most definitely rule and reign over the earth from the Throne of David at His appointed time, and that time is called the Millennial Kingdom or the Rule and Reign of Jesus Christ. It will be a literal Throne in Jerusalem and a literal 1,000 years starting after the end of the Tribulation Period. The devil will be locked away during this time.

2 - THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST and Israel are two separate entities which must not be confused. Almighty God has made specific promises to both entities, and understanding the difference is critical in understanding Bible prophecy.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1Corinthians 2:9  But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

 BigD quote...
 I'll show you, but I can't make you see.

 70 weeks begin ...

  Artaxerxes gives commandment to  Nehemiah to rebuild Jerusalem Neh 2:8  March 444 B.C.  70 weeks begin.  “Going forth of the commandment”  Dan 9:25

 483 years later..

   33 AD Messiah is cut off Dan 9:26 Suffering Messiah  Isa 52:13-53, Ps 22

 This leaves seven years. (I'll adress this seven years later)

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: ...

 So, in 33 A.D. the messiah is cut off - that is 483 years after
Artaxerxes gives commandment to  Nehemiah to rebuild Jerusalem...with me so far?

 Dan 9:26 continued...and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 From Daniel’s perspective, we are viewing the (future) destruction of Jerusalem after the restoration mentioned in Daniel’s pray and accomplished by Nehemiah.  This destruction will occur by "The people of a prince who shall come".   Daniel, at this point, is praying for the restoration of Jerusalem. The city was destroyed by the Babylonians when he, Daniel, was in Babylon 586 BC.  The angel Gabriel is informing Daniel that the city of Jerusalem will be destroyed again after it is rebuilt by the commandment given by Artaxerxes in Daniel 9:24.

  In the year 70 AD, roman general Titus, son of the Emperor Vespasian, laid siege to Jerusalem. Today in the city of Rome, the Arch of Titus stands as a nearly 2000 year old monument to the victory of the Roman armies.  Engraved on the arch are the treasures taken from Jerusalem including a sculpture of the gold Menorah taken from the Temple.

 Only 69 weeks of years have passed on the Jewish People up to this point.  From the time the "Commandment was given" to restore and build Jerusalem unto " Messiah the Prince" was 483 years.  However, the number of years determined on Daniel's people were 490 years. Seven years are left to be fulfilled of the 490.  Did the seven years follow the death of Messiah?

      In Dan. 9:26  the, "Cutting off of Messiah"  occurred in 33 AD, to be followed by "The people of a prince who shall come"  who would destroy the city and temple. “The people”, who came were the Romans under Titus in 70 AD, but also mentioned is “A prince who shall come”. The people and prince are connected but separate. The people who destroy Jerusalem and the Temple would be descendants of the future prince.  The prince therefore would be of Roman or European origin.  At the end of the 69th week which ended with the death of Messiah the prince there was a period of 37 years before the rest of the 26th verse was fulfilled.  We can see that the 70th week would not immediately follow the 69th week. There is a gap between the 69th and 70th week. The question here BigD, is when does this final seven years begin?


 Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 The temple and city of Jerusalem were destroyed following the death of  Messiah the Prince, thirty seven  years later.

This sequence is important for four reasons;

1.   The 70th week is part of the 490 years but would not      immediately follow 69 weeks.

2.   The remaining 7 years will  focus on Israel and the future Jewish Temple.

3.   The  future "Prince who shall come" is linked to the Jewish people and Temple sacrifice.

4.   Titus and the Romans destroyed the Temple in 70 AD and there is no temple today.

 So a future Jewish Temple must be built.  

  This prince is Roman  because Gabriel identifies him as a future prince of the people that would destroy the city of Jerusalem and the Temple.  The "Prince who shall come" was in the future tense. What function will this prince serve?  We find the answer in the 70th week (Dan 9:27) The Temple and city were destroyed in 70 AD.  The city has been restored but the temple to this very day remains destroyed.

 Today  the third most holy site to Islam, The Dome of the Rock, occupies  the spot where Temple stood. The last remaining vestige of the Temple is the Wailing Wall.  In Dan. 9:27 we are told that someone (he ), the "Prince who shall come" will make a covenant agreement to start up the sacrificial system of worship which has been stopped since the Temple was destroyed by the Roman armies.

 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:  This is the start of the final seven years my friend. During that time, the temple will be rebuilt...So why does the verse says he shall confirm the covenant with many ?
  I don't need to go into the political/religious problems surrounding the temple mound. If the Jews attempted to rebuild the temple there today there would be bloody war - that's why "he" makes a covenant with "many"

 The final seven years begins when satan makes the seven year covenant.

Bronzesnake

  The length of a year in terms of days in biblical accounting is different than the present Gregorian system used today. The biblical system was lunar while the Gregorian is Solar. A month was 29 days and 30 days every other month with some adjustments every so often. We can see from Genesis 7-8 that the flood continued for 5 months or 150 days, a month was 30 days.  A day was 24 hours in Daniel’s day and in our day.  By using days, instead of years, we can reconcile the two methods.

1. We know there are 360 days to a biblical year.

      360 x 483=173,880 days

2. There are 365.242 days to a year in our calendar.          

3. If we divide our days 365.242 days into 173,880 days we  have 476 years and 24 days .  

4.  Subtract 476 years from 444 BC we  arrive at 33 AD and add 24 days (year 0 being 1)  

The command was given in the month Nissan. Nissan corresponds with March/April in our calendar. Therefore, 69 weeks ends on 24th day of Nissan or about  March 29th 33 AD.

Bronzesnake

Mr. Bepster my ol buddy  :P


 We don't all agree on the points you listed above.  I believe Israel and the Church to be one in the same which ... stated in an over simplistic way... to be His people... This is not 'replacement theology' but understanding the scripture to see HE has always had 'peoples' a continuation of His Holy nation as listed in ....

Ex 19:5-6

5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of  Israel.
KJV

1 Peter 2:9-10

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
KJV

If my posting in this thread makes for too much infighting ... just say the word and i will  shut up  :-X and read...

your sister in Him even when we disagree... :)

Didn't it take 7 years to rebuild?

Sister Reba,

I love you and your posts, so please keep posting. You are my sister in Christ, and our disagreement on this issue doesn't make me love you any less. This is a pleasant discussion, and I will be studying your posts just as much as any other post. So, post away and know that your points are worthy of study.

My main point is that I love you in Christ, and I love to read and study all of your posts.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 105:3  Glory ye in his holy name: let the heart of them rejoice that seek the LORD.

Mr. Bepster,

 :)

Reba,

Yes, the land is a key factor in Israel's anointment of the King. They did not anoint Jesus Christ the King of Israel. Hey simply said "Blessed is the Son of David which comes in the Name of the Lord" They didn't anoint Him king, because if they had, they would have recognized Him as the Messiah and the Holy One spoken of in the OT. They simply thought of Him as a prophet from God, not the King of Israel. If they had, they wouldn't have condemned Him to be crucified. Also, remember at that time, there was no kingdom known as Israel. It was known as Palestine, and it was a roman province. It's clear through Scripture that it's the NATION OF ISRAEL that will Anoint Jesus King. They can't do this if they are not the physical or spiritual nation that God has called them to be. And at that time, the Glory of God had already left the Temple, and left Jerusalem. About the Church and Israel being one in the same. We (Gentiles) are now adopted sons as Scripture points out. However, the Church is seperate from Israel, they are not one in the same, because when the church is raptured out, according to that, so will Israel. Thus that makes no sense to me. Also if you re-read your quotation of 1 peter, you'll see that the context is that of the BELIEVER, not Israel. How can Israel be a holy nation at the time of Peter's writing. Even Peter saw how unholy Israel was. He was addressing the Christians. He even states "In past time, ye were not a people, but now are" How is it that when this was written, Peter is saying that Israel wasn't a people, but now they are. That's a contradiction of thought. I gotta run to pick up my dad, but i'll be back on to finish this up... To Be continued.

Joshua

 Gods word says so thats how...

1 Peter 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

1 Peter 2:10

10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
KJV

KJV


Who was King Herod?

No God's Word says so on the surface, but remember who Peter was talking to. He was talking to the Jewish Christians, not the Nation of Israel. He was also talking about those Gentile Christians and what the Believer is to God. That's clear in the use of the word "Peculiar" The Greek word used is Peripoiesis which means "Purchased" Peter was addressing his letter to the BELIEVER, not the nation of Israel. You are right, Christ is the High Priest, but in the priesthood of Believers. The Nation of Israel has yet to recognize HIm or anoint Him as a High Priest, or King of Israel. Herod wasn't really a king...if you remember, the Romans had absolute power in that region. They gave out governorships and allowed the title to be bestowed upon people of THEIR choosing. So Herod, wasn't an absolute monarch over anything. Much less the Nation of Israel...Herod was contained to Judea, not Perea which is also part of Palestine at that time. So "King" Herod was simply given that title to raise his own ego. When Christ is anointed King, He will have TOTAL power over the nation of Israel both physically and spiritually. Yet, they still can't anoint Him King, because He's not come back yet, Israel has yet to become the spiritual nation that it once was, and Israel is still set aside as a nation. I covered the reasons Israel was set aside in another Study that i composed a few weeks ago...if you would like to check that one out as well...i can give you the link or post it here...whatever you wish...however, you can't just take 1 Peter 2:9 and say that it's talking about the nation of Israel...because when Peter wrote this, Israel WAS NOT a nation. It was known as Palestine, not Israel. It was as well a province of Rome, not a Kingdom. The Kingdom known as Israel was split into two, then destroyed and ceased to be a nation with it's last king, Zedekiah, who reigned around the time of Ezekiel's writing.  So you can't look at things on the surface reba, you need to take them into context...just a few thoughts. God Bless

Joshua

Josh I do look beyond the surface i have been where you are.  :)

I am going to ask  you a question and i have thought about how to word it for a couple of hours. Most anyone who ever reads my posts knows a rude sounding question is now going to be asked. Please again i do not mean to be rude but i will ask. How much of what you post is God's Word and how much is what you believe God is saying. I ask understanding we all read the scriptures a bit differently.Like where do the scriptures say the "nation of Israel" will annoint Him king. I say the high priest does the annointing He is Thee High Priest.



Heb 1:8-9

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
KJV

Reba,

I saw your question and I don't think that it is rude at all. It's a simple question. When it comes to matters of theology, I try to only comment or have an opinion on things that I have seen or studied in the Scriptures. When I said look beyond the surface, I meant just that. And I hope you do. What I post in my posts, I try to make statements that will be backed up with God's Word. If i can't back it up with God's Word, I try not to state it sometimes. Sometimes I may get carried away and not clarify myself, but as you will see i make allusions and references and examples pertaining to those thta are in Scripture. Occasionally, i'll go to an outside source for historical background and cultural back ground. When I post, I try to study the material first before I post something. Such as the 70th week of Daniel...I've spent the past year and a half studying God's Word as to how this fits in History. See Prophecy that has passed and History go hand in hand. However, it can become confusing. But that's another post. Yes, We all do read Scriptures a bit differently, however, there are some Truths in Scripture that can only be interpreted one way which is the correct way. As I've said before, there are different interpretations to the Word of God, however, I leave it up to the Spirit for discernment. I know i'm not the best Bible Scholar that's ever lived, and I don't claim to know the answers...however, I have studied this subject quite extensively and i continually pray for God's guidance, but as of right now in my study of His Word, what i have posted earlier is what the Spirit has given to me to see. I don't know what else is out there, but when the time comes, it'll be the Holy Spirit which will give me confirmation that what I thought was wrong, and that what I may find out is right. However, in this case, that hasn't been the case. I still feel within my spirit, that what I posted is Truth according to God's Word. That's the best I know how to answer your question. Don't worry about sounding rude or anything, because i cannot tell how you sound vocally, so what right do i have to get offended at something you say :) Though some do get offended sometimes, i just remind them, we can't hear another person's voice, so sometimes we just gotta listen, digest, and respond and that's what i've done here. If you  would like to go over my posts that I've posted in this forum and see that what I posts is God's Word, you have my permission to do so. I got dinner in the oven so i'm going to post this and finish eating. God Bless, and I hope I answered your question to your satisfaction.

Joshua

Hi Bronze,
I have some questions about things in this paragraph.
490 years after the birth of Abraham the Passover occurred -  490 years after Passover, Solomon's temple was built - 490 years later, the rebuilding of Jerusalem took place - exactly 483 after that, Jesus died on the cross... Where's the missing seven years? the final "week" from Daniel's prophecy is the tribulation period. The prophetic clock stopped when Jesus died on the cross. The clock will not start the final seven year countdown to His second coming until after the rapture takes place.

I agree with most of what is said but how is the tribulation period 7 years. Would'nt it be more accurate to define it as Daniels 70th week rather than the "Tribulation?".

The reason I ask is because Jesus says that the tribulation begins in the middle of the 70th week and is cut short. Let me simply quote Him:

Matthew 24

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)...
21... then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Does not this define the bounderies of the great tribulation?

Thanks,
Keith

 Wouldn't you call a time in our history when satan is directly in charge tribulation? in fact, wouldn't you think a time such as this would be the worst time of tribulation the world has ever experienced up to that point? Think about it...satan actually in charge...Christians have gone away...no more restrainer.

 The first half of the seven years is referred to as a time of "Tribulation" - the second half, as you correctly pointed out is referred to as "Great Tribulation" because this is when God really lets His vengeance loose. The fact that Jesus describes the second half as a time of "great tribulation" infers that the first half of Daniel's 70th week is a time of tribulation, albeit not "great tribulation"

 The final seven years are seven years of tribulation my friend.

Bronzesnake

Bronzesnake,
I did a search on the word "tribulation" and I can't find any reference to it refering to the first half of Daniels 70th week.
 Here are the verses I found:
# Matthew 13:21
yet hath he not root in himself, but endureth for a while. For when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the Word, by and by he loses faith.

# Matthew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

# Matthew 24:29
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken,

# Mark 13:24
"But in those days, after that tribulation, `the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

# John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in Me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer: I have overcome the world."

# Acts 14:22
confirming the souls of the disciples and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the Kingdom of God.

# Romans 2:9
tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man who doeth evil, upon the Jew first and also upon the Gentile;

# Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also, knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

# Romans 8:35
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

# Romans 12:12
rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing instant in prayer;

# 2 Corinthians 1:4
who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort those who are in any trouble by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted by God.

# 2 Corinthians 7:4
Great is my boldness of speech toward you; great is my glorying of you. I am filled with comfort; I am exceedingly joyful in all our tribulation.

# 1 Thessalonians 3:4
For verily, when we were with you, we told you beforehand that we should suffer tribulation, even as it came to pass, as ye know.

# 2 Thessalonians 1:6
For it is a righteous thing with God to recompense with tribulation those who trouble you;

# Revelation 1:9
I, John, who also am your brother and companion in tribulation and in the Kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the isle that is called Patmos, for the Word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

# Revelation 2:9
I know thy works and tribulation and poverty (but thou art rich), and I know the blasphemy of them that say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

# Revelation 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer. Behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried, and ye shall have tribulation ten days. Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of Life.

# Revelation 2:22
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.

# Revelation 7:14
And I said unto him, "Sir, thou knowest." And he said to me, "These are they that came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

We must distinguish between great tribulation which is the persecution by Anti-Christ and all other tribulation in order to have a proper understanding of scripture. The tribulation by Anti-Christ should not be confused with God's wrath. God's wrath does not begin until the overcomiers are removed (raptured).

By the way, as an aside, what is actually shortened? Is it the 70th week or something else?
Matthew 24

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

What is shortened? And by what means does God shorten it?

Is the 70th week shortened or is the tribulation by Anti-Christ shortened? Please explain.

Your Brother in Christ,

Keith

 

Wouldn't you call a time in our history when satan is directly in charge tribulation?
I certainly would. Jesus calls it great tribulation. Satan in Anti-Christ will be restrained until the middle of Daniels 70th week. Then when the restainer is taken out of the way that wicked one will be revealed. This is in the middle, not the beginning of the 70th week.

Daniel 12
1And at that time shall Michael stand up [Hebrew: amad, which can mean to stand still], the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:

Matthew 24
15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
21... then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

2 Thessalonians 2
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

He will be revealed when he sits in the temple, "shewing himself that he is God."

And, according to Daniel 12:1 Michael is the one restraining him till the middle of the week.

Daniel  9 : 27

27 And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week; and in the middle of the week he will cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease and will replace the sacrifice and the oblation with abominations of the desolator, even until the complete destruction that has been determined is poured out upon the desolator.

Daniel  12 : 11

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice is removed and the abomination that desolates is set up, there will be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Daniel 12
1And at that time shall Michael stand up [Hebrew: amad, which can mean to stand still], the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:

Michael fights for Israel but in the middle of the week he will amad (Hebrew: stand still). Then all Hell breaks loose and Anti- Christ wages war on Jews and Christians alike. Kind of like Hitler did only much worse. But Jesus will shorten those days by His glorious coming. Then God's wrath will be poured out till the end.

Note: "amad" means stand still or stand up. It is used both ways in the Old Testament.

 05975   //  dme  //  `amad   //  aw-mad'  //

a primitive root; TWOT - 1637; v

AV - stood 171, stand 137, (raise, stand...) up 42, set 32, stay 17,
still 15, appointed 10, standing 10, endure 8, remain 8, present 7,
continue 6, withstand 6, waited 5, establish 5, misc 42; 521

1) to stand, remain, endure, take one's stand
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to stand, take one's stand, be in a standing attitude,
stand forth, take a stand, present oneself, attend upon,
be or become servant of
1a2) to stand still, stop (moving or doing), cease
1a3) to tarry, delay, remain, continue, abide, endure, persist,
be steadfast
1a4) to make a stand, hold one's ground
1a5) to stand upright, remain standing, stand up, rise, be
erect, be upright
1a6) to arise, appear, come on the scene, stand forth, appear,
rise up or against
1a7) to stand with, take one's stand, be appointed, grow flat,
grow insipid
1b) (Hiphil)
1b1) to station, set
1b2) to cause to stand firm, maintain
1b3) to cause to stand up, cause to set up, erect
1b4) to present (one) before (king)
1b5) to appoint, ordain, establish
1c) (Hophal) to be presented, be caused to stand, be stood before

Notice fourth reference above-
1a2) to stand still, stop (moving or doing), cease

Michael stands still at the proper time then that wicked one is revealed.

Your Brother,

Keith

Hello Keith.

 I see what you are getting at. You are a mid-tribber.

 I really have grown tired of debateing this pre-mid-post tribulation rapture stuff. I have posted much on the biblical evidence which supports a pre-trib.

 However, It has been a long while since I debated this in any detail, so I am ready to do it again if you like.

 This is probably not an appropriate thread to have this discussion, so please present your mid trib rapture scriptures in the "Rapture" thread, and I will respond with pre-trib rapture verses.

 Good talking with you my friend.

Bronzesnake

Sheesh  I wonder how   WE all can have a different view and say, in one form or another,  this is the understanding i have because of prayer and listing to the Holy Spirit.


No place does Jesus speak of " the great tribulation" nor the whole of the Word say "the great tribulation" (I read KJV mostly) so maybe some other translation....

The whole of scripture All of God's Word and all of His words to us only use the phrase antichrist a total of 5 times. I do find it strange the man who penned Revelation does not use the word antichrist and yet he is also the man who penned the term in the 'little books' of John .... Do we have the right, justification, reason, knowledge, leading, understanding etc. etc., to make subtle changes to His Holy Word. Or, do we do this because of translation? If this is done under the guise of translation that would lead one to understand the KJV is lacking.?...

 Hello my friend!

 Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

 Reeba; Notice how John makes a distinction in this verse?
He tells us that there are many antichrists (children of satan-seeverse below) on earth "even now" then he says that antichrist shall come (future tense) Why do you think he made such a distinction. Keep in mind that revelation tells us that satan will be hoofed out of the heavens and down here to earth in the end times. Daniel states that he will sign a seven year peace deal with "many" and that he will claim to be God. The bible thumps it into our heads that satan is the father of lies, murder, perversion, sin etc. He is "the antichrist" by definition. I don't understand your confusion with this.

 Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Take care.

Bronzesnake

Brothers and Sisters,

It appears that we have the makings of another pleasant and great discussion.

We really have a massive amount of material already on the forum that represents years of work by several of our users. I might add that the material is excellent, highly documented from the Holy Bible, and presents several points of view.

I would simply like to add 2 cents worth again for thought. Daniel's 70 weeks were determined on Israel, not THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. The first 69 weeks of Daniel's prophecy have been fulfilled, but the 70th week remains in the future. It is imperative to note that each day in Daniel's week represents 1 year. So, 1 week is 7 years. Let this be the first penny worth, I hope.

Christians who are saved in this age or dispensation of Grace have the Holy Spirit living in their hearts, and their heart is SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, setting aside that Christian as a possession of God forever. No power in Heaven or earth can break the SEAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. AND, that would include the Mark of the Beast. The devil certainly can't break the SEAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, so Christians won't be here to worry about the Mark of the Beast. Christians will already be home in Heaven with JESUS. There will be hosts of new Christians that are saved during the Tribulation Period, and they will be damned forever if they yield to the Mark of the Beast. We must remember that the Age and dispensation of God's Grace is over with the beginning of the Tribulation Period. The Restrainer (Holy Spirit) will be removed, and new Christians during the Tribulation Period will prove their faith by having their heads chopped off. Those who profess Christ will be hunted to the ends of the earth, and their Salvation will depend on rejecting the Mark of the Beast. This is NOT a condition of Salvation for Christians who profess Christ in this current age. In fact, Christians in this current age have promises from God and the SEAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT that CAN'T BE BROKEN. I hope this another penny worth.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 119:105  Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Yup  Bronzesnake you well posted my point, about "the great tribulation" :) as i said it ain't there...



Where is satan today?

Mr. Bepster my brother and friend... :)...

This piece from your statment abopve puzzles me... I read this to be salvation via the blood of man I could die a million times and my blood will not save me or anyone else...We are saved only by HIS sacrifice, HIS death, HIS blood, not our own.  
2 Cor 6:2
2(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
KJV

1 Thess 5:9

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
KJV

Heb 9:20

20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
KJV

Heb 9:26

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
KJV

Heb 13:12

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
KJV

1 Peter 1:18-19

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
KJV

Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
KJV

Eph 1:5-7

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
KJV

Hey Brother,
Actually I am not mid trib but pre wrath. Mid tribbers will be able to set a date once the treaty is signed. We do not, nor can we know the day or the hour of Christ's return.  I was a pretribber for  many years but after reading "The Sign" I was challenged to reevaluate the scriptures concerning the end times. I only ask the questions above because they cut to the heart of the pre trib theory. I do not know that I am up to a long term debate because most of the time they are fruitless and end in strife. But if you are seriously wanting to be a Berean here is a website you can go to that will explain the pre wrath position.
http://www.revelationcommentary.org/
I am one that attends a church that is of the pre trib theory. I do not divide over this issue. I wish I could say that about some pretribbers. A kneejerk reaction is what I get most of the time without a demonstration of scriptural backing.
I will think about starting a debate on another thread.
Thanks,
Keith

 Hello Keith.

 Hey, that's ok my friend, I am well educated in the pre-wrath and all the others. I agree with you - most of these debates go nowhere and can end up ugly. It's not a "Heaven or Hell" issue, so I'll see you at the Pre-Trib Rapture, and you'll owe me a piece of angel cake. ;)

Bronzesnake

Reba quote...

 
You're just splitting hairs you naughty girl!  :D
 

 Where does the bible say he is today Reba?

 Later my sister.

Bronzesnake

LoL...spitting hairs never gets us anywhere. Hey that rhymed...i'm proud of myself...lol...talk at you guys later. God Bless

Joshua

  No fair i asked first :P  

More like jot and tittle then spliting hairs.   ;D

Sister Reba,

I agree with you completely about Salvation, and I give thanks for the Gospel of the Grace of God. This age will come to an end, and what I wrote about the Mark of the Beast is heavily documented in the Holy Bible. This is the main reason why I believe in a pre-Tribulation RAPTURE of the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. I know that Almighty God can't and won't break any of HIS Promises to THE BODY OF CHRIST or to Israel.

Think about this and see what you think. I'm absolutely positive that the devil can't break the SEAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. That is the main premise of my thoughts on this issue, a Promise from Almighty God.

Now, we come to an absolute fact about Daniel's 70th week of prophecy. Those who take the Mark of the Beast will be damned forever and belong to the devil. It will make no difference at all about what they profess to believe. This is straight out of the Holy Bible. This does not contradict the previous paragraph because the age and dispensation of Grace is over. This is not some wild thoughts of an ultra-dispensationalist or whatever some of these folks are called. The Apostle Paul specifically calls this age the dispensation of Grace. This paragraph is obviously not compatible with the previous paragraph for a big reason:  This age or dispensation of Grace will end. If it didn't end, one would have a huge contradiction in the Holy Bible, and that's not possible.

Sister, you and I will be spending eternity together with JESUS. That is God's Promise to us, and I believe it 100%. You and I are already SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, and we won't be here to worry about the Mark of the Beast. Satan is NOT unleashed completely during our present time, but he will be at God's appointed time. How will the devil be completely unleashed and allowed to rule and reign over the earth from Jerusalem? The answer involves many other answers. The GREAT RESTRAINER (HOLY SPIRIT) will be removed. Since the Holy Spirit lives in each heart of THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST, THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST must be also removed. In fact, the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST will be RAPTURED, caught up to meet the LORD in the air. This is also a Promise of Almighty God that I believe in 100%.

Sister, our differences of opinion on this issue means nothing to me. I know beyond any doubt that you are in CHRIST. You were very wise to question what I said. The answer involves the end of this age and our eternity together with JESUS. You and I both know that the hope within us, JESUS, is absolute reality. If we die today - "Absent from the body, present with the LORD." "If Jesus comes for us" is not a question because we both know beyond any doubt that we will spend eternity with HIM. The question involves the timing of Bible prophecy and how it will most certainly be fulfilled. If we are still physically alive at HIS appointed time to come for us, we will be caught up to spend eternity with HIM. If we physically die before the RAPTURE, our Spirit will already be with JESUS, but our bodies will be caught up. We will also be given a glorified body at HIS appointed time. Regardless, our eternal reality is already SEALED in JESUS. Any differences we may have now we be left behind and forgotten forever. We will be far too busy with joy, praise, and worship of JESUS to remember any of the trials and conflicts of this short life on earth. The tears, sorrow, and trials will be over forever.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Titus 2:13  Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

LOL :D

I like how you snuck that in there :) very tactful. I'll see you guys at the Pre-Trib Rapture as well...BEFORE THE TRIBULATION PERIOD...tee hee..that aught to get BigD's eyes alert...or at least shaking his head! :D

Joshua

I think BigD would love to debate this, as well. Anyone who says, mid-trib, the first round of manna, is on you. Said to me by BRNZ

 I wasn't going to say anything my friend!!  :D ;D

Bronzesnake

I know, thats why I said it. I was waiting for you to say it...... ;D

Bob

*Plays the Jeopardy theme Song*

Joshua