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Entertainment => Politics and Political Issues => Topic started by: DeLenn on October 30, 2004, 10:48:39 PM



Title: A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: DeLenn on October 30, 2004, 10:48:39 PM
is to move towards stopping the killing of unborn babies. There have been 44 million abortions in the U.S and over 4000 a day.  I have a site at http://clinicquotes.topcities.com (http://clinicquotes.topcities.com) which contains a huge list of quotes from current and former abortion clinic staff and doctors about the abortion 'business.' It's a real eye opener for anyone who cares about this issue. That is where the following quotes come from.  With justice Renquist ill with cancer and all of the Supreme Court Justices near retirement age, there will most likely be openings in the Supreme Court for the next president to fill.  John Kerry supports abortion and will add justices to the Supreme Court who will ensure it stays legal for the forseeable future.

Some quotes from the site:

"It [the unborn] is a form of life...This has to be killing...The question then becomes "is this kind of killing justifiable? In my own mind, it is justifiable..."
--abortionist quoted in "Democrat and Chronicle" 7/5/92
----------------------------------------------------------
I wanted to be the world’s best abortionist, for the good of my patients. If I was going to do this, I was going to do it right. So, after I met each patient, reviewed the medical information gathered by my nurse, examined the patient and performed the abortion, I would then carefully sift through the remains to be sure all the parts were accounted for. I had to find four extremities (two arms and two legs) a spine, a skull, and the placenta, or my patient would suffer later from an incomplete abortion...My attention was so focused on my perceived patient that I managed to deny that there were, in fact, two patients involved- the expectant mother and a very small child...I had to wonder, how can having a child be so wrong for some people that they will pay me to end its life?"
--former abortionist Dr. McMillan "How One Doctor Changed Her Mind About Abortion" Focus on the Family, Colorado Springs
-----------------------------------------------------
"No one, neither the patient receiving an abortion, nor the person doing the abortion, is ever, at anytime, unaware that they are ending a life..."
--Abortion provider William F Harrison, MD, FACOG, from the essay "Why I Provide Abortions" 1996.
---------------------------------------------------
From “Berkeley Medical Journal” Spring 1995 Edition “The Abortionist” by LeoWang

"Abortion is killing the fetus....Human life, in and of itself, is not sacred. Human life, per se, is not inviolate." --abortionist Dr. Smith
-----------------------------------------------------------
In the book "Abortion: Debating the Issue" (New York:Enslow Publishing, Inc., 1995) Nancy Day quotes abortionist Dr. Ed Jones, who had worked at a Planned Parenthood Clinic for 4 years at the time of the interview, saying the following:

"This can burn you out very, very quickly...not so much by the physical labor as the emotional part of what's going on. When you do an ultraound, particularly if you have children, and you see a fetus there, kicking, moving, living, doing things that your own child does, bringing it's thumb to its mouth, and things like that- it's difficult. Then, after the procedure, sometimes we have to actually look at the specimen, and you see arms and legs and things like that torn off...It does take an emotional toll."
-----------------------------------------------------------
From "Abortion at Work: Ideology and Practice in a Feminist Clinic" by Wendy Simonds. New Brunswick: Rutgers University Press, 1996. Quotes from clinic workers:

"It's just- I mean it looks like a baby. It looks like a baby. And especially if you get one that comes out, that's not piecemeal. And you know, I saw this one, and it had its fingers in its mouth...it makes me really sad that that had to happen, you know, but it doesn't change my mind. It's just hard. And it makes me just sort of stop and feel sad about it, the whole necessity of it. And also....it's very warm when it comes into the sterile room because it's been in the mother's stomach. It feels like flesh, you know..."

"At nine weeks...you start seeing fetal parts. And by the second trimester it's, you know, it's a baby, and by eighteen weeks it's definitely a baby. And by like, you know, twenty-two weeks, you go in and you watch someone do a sonogram, and you're like, "Oh my." There it is just moving, moving around. And it's really hard because I always thought of abortion in terms of just the woman, just her body."

"You're looking between the woman's legs; you're seeing, you know, what the doctor's doing. And it's what a lot of people would call kind of, I guess, gruesome- that's not really the word because- it's identifiable. I mean, when he...takes the forceps and pulls out a foot, you can see the foot, and my reaction- because I feel so strongly that women who want to have a twenty week abortion should be able to have that- but I mean when I look and was just like, you know, my first reaction was, you know, I was pretty horrified."

"So by it looking like a baby, you're associating it with yourself because...you used to be a baby, you used to be a fetus."

"...when you're, you know, putting a fetus's feet in over its head in a baggie, there's just this brief moment of "This could have been me," which I fundamentally believe is okay. She should have the right to choose..."

"...it looks like a baby, That's what it looks like to me. You've never seen anything else that looks like that. The only other thing you've ever seen is a baby...You can see a face and hands, and ears and eyes and, you know...feet and toes...It bothered me real bad the first time..."

"I think the tough part was seeing actual pieces of fetus being removed..And in the beginning, yes, I remember looking, standing behind this woman's shoulder [as she performed an early second- trimester-abortion] and thinking, "I can't do this...There's something emotionally upsetting about this..Features are discernible; you can count five fingers on a hand and five toes on a foot. You know, all the organ systems are formed. You know, you can see ears as structures, and the nose and eyes as structures...I have gotten to the point now that because I've been doing this work five months, four months, I look at it a little differently. I don't see the same things that I did. And, honestly, when I sit down to do one of these now, I am watching to be sure that I'm getting everything that I need to get. It's 'Do I have two lower extremities? Do I have two upper extremities? Is t here a spine? ...and the skull?...It does become a bit routine after a while. I don't fear it."

"I hate it when people put it together to look like a baby. I
hate that...I don't want to look like it when its like that because it's like a broken doll, and that grosses me out."

From the author: "Many health workers told me they 'never look at the face' when processing tissue."
---------------------------------------------------------
John Kerry fully supports partial birth abortion, a procedure where a live infant is delivered except for the head and then killed.  One formerly pro-choice nurse who worked at The Women's Center where abortions are performed described what she saw before the Supreme Court.  From the sworn testimony of Brenda Pratt Shafer, RN:

"I stood at the doctor’s side and watched him perform a partial-birth abortion on a woman who was six months pregnant. The baby’s heartbeat was clearly visible on the ultrasound screen. The doctor delivered the baby’s body and arms, everything but his little head. The baby’s body was moving. His little fingers were clasping together. He was kicking his feet. The doctor took a pair of scissors and inserted them into the back of the baby’s head, and the baby’s arms jerked out in a flinch, a startle reaction, like a baby does when he thinks that he might fall. Then the doctor opened the scissors up. Then he stuck the high-powered suction tube into the hole and sucked the baby’s brains out. Now the baby was completely limp. I never went back to the clinic. But I am still haunted by the face of that little boy. It was the most perfect, angelic face I have ever seen."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Do we want to elect as our president a man who supports this kind of killing?  I hope not.



Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: sincereheart on October 31, 2004, 06:56:03 AM
Wow! Your site has LOTS in it! And it's sad that there's so much to put in it!  :-\

But this gave me a chuckle!:

(http://clinicquotes.topcities.com/pro_choice7.jpg)

 ;D


Title: A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: Brother Love on October 31, 2004, 04:51:50 PM
Wow! Your site has LOTS in it! And it's sad that there's so much to put in it!  :-\

But this gave me a chuckle!:

(http://clinicquotes.topcities.com/pro_choice7.jpg)

 ;D

Oh Boy


(http://www.sirinet.net/~blkidps/bljpg2.jpg)


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: Symphony on October 31, 2004, 05:24:17 PM

Thank you for your post, DeLenn.  

Not a very happy situation:

It does become a bit routine after a while. I don't fear it."


Sort of like the Nazis.  
 


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: Symphony on October 31, 2004, 05:40:28 PM

Madness.  Wholesale madness.


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: sincereheart on November 05, 2004, 02:53:50 AM
SENATOR SPECTER WARNS BUSH ON HIGH COURT NOMINATIONS

Senator Arlen Specter, a Republican from Pennsylvania, has warned President Bush not to send to the Senate for a judicial appointment (including the Supreme Court) any nominee who is a strict constructionist (in other words, who is not pro-choice.

Specter implied that he is prepared to filibuster any nominee that he (Specter) considers too conservative.

Specter is the person who killed the nomination of Robert Bork to the Supreme Court and tried to kill the nomination of Clarence Thomas. This is the person Pres. Bush went to Pennsylvania to campaign for. But Specter knows it will be six years before he will be up for re-election and feels free to do as he pleases. He can even spit in the face of the President if he desires. His turning on the President, who helped him get re-elected, shows his character.

READ CLIPS FROM THE ASSOCIATED PRESS ARTICLE BELOW
next post

Under Senate tradition, Specter is scheduled to become Chairman of the Judiciary Committee that handles all judicial appointments. Specter has sent the message that he will join with liberal Democrats to kill any conservative appointments.

TAKE ACTION

If you have a Republican Senator (you may even have two), call them today and tell them not to vote for Senator Specter for Chairman of the Judiciary Committee. The Chairman is chosen by secret ballot by the Republican Caucus which includes all Republican Senators.

Tell your Republican Senator(s) that if Sen. Specter is allowed to serve as Chairman, it will be considered a slap in the face of all the Values Voters who voted for Pres. Bush. And it will be considered a betrayal of trust, in light of the fact that Bush ran opposing Senators blocking his appointments—such as Sen. Specter has promised to do.

You can reach your Republican Senator by calling the Senate switchboard at 202-224-3121. Ask for your Senator by name, or give the operator your zip code. It does no good to call a Democrat senator.

Donald E. Wildmon, Founder and Chairman
American Family Association


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: sincereheart on November 05, 2004, 02:55:27 AM
By LARA JAKES JORDAN
Associated Press

PHILADELPHIA -- The Republican expected to chair the Senate Judiciary Committee next year bluntly warned newly re-elected President Bush today against putting forth Supreme Court nominees who would seek to overturn abortion rights or are otherwise too conservative to win confirmation.

"When you talk about judges who would change the right of a woman to choose, overturn Roe v. Wade, I think that is unlikely," Specter said, referring to the landmark 1973 Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion.

"The president is well aware of what happened, when a bunch of his nominees were sent up, with the filibuster," Specter added, referring to Senate Democrats' success over the past four years in blocking the confirmation of many of Bush's conservative judicial picks. "... And I would expect the president to be mindful of the considerations which I am mentioning."

(As Chairman of the Judiciary Committee) Specter, 74, would have broad authority to reshape the nation's highest court (in the new Congress). He would have wide latitude to schedule hearings, call for votes and make the process as easy or as hard as he wants.

Legal scholar Dennis Hutchinson said Specter's message to the White House appears to be "a way of asserting his authority" as he prepares to chair the Judiciary Committee when Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, is term-limited from keeping the post next year.

"A self-proclaimed moderate, he helped kill President Reagan's nomination of Robert Bork to the Supreme Court and of Jeff Sessions to a federal judgeship. Specter called both nominees too extreme on civil rights issues. Sessions later became a Republican senator from Alabama and now sits on the Judiciary Committee with Specter.


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: sincereheart on November 06, 2004, 07:01:35 AM
Quote
Specter implied that he is prepared to filibuster any nominee that he (Specter) considers too conservative.
::)


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: Shylynne on November 06, 2004, 08:00:41 AM
Is this like the song that never ends?  :-X


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: Marv on November 06, 2004, 11:34:49 AM
Hi,

If you study Roe v Wade, it was a 7-2 verdict.  5 Republican Justices and 2 Democrat for, 1 Republican and 1 Democrat against.

The Justices searched every tradition and common law for when life was considered to begin as well as the Constitution itself.  That's why you see the breakdown of trimesters.  In the end, the justices ruled based on what they could find, not what they couldn't find.  That is the very definition of conservative.

Now, in order to overturn Roe v Wade, people have been told that we need conservative Republican Justices, the very same type of justices that provided the initial ruling.

Anyone that thinks overturning Roe v Wade is going to happen due to the "right" appointments is, in my opinion, bordering on delusional maybe past.  Bush said no litmus test, the probable Republican chair of the Senate Judiciary is already saying no  etc.

Now a lot of people say they want abortion outlawed, but the basis would have to be that we recognize legally the child as a full human.  Most proposals never do much of anything to the mother, more to the doctor for penalties.  Well if the child is granted full rights, then abortion is premeditated murder, I can't see it any other way, otherwise you would have to say the child is a human being, but a lesser human being, something that certainly exists in practice for minorities, but not in the law.  The mother and the doctor must be subject to the same penalties as other murderers, including the death penalty in states where it applies.  If you do not subject the mother and the doctor to the same penalties then other murderers can and will argue under equal protection of the law, that the penalties on them can't be any more severe than it is for abortion.  Premeditated murder=premeditated murder.  If you are not going to penalize the mother for premeditated murder, then you have to let all murderers go.

In all abortions, even when justified for saving the mother's life, an investigation, including an autopsy will be needed.

Miscarriages will need to be investigated to see if a murder has occurred.  

I would also put forward that pregnancy tests on women leaving the country will be necessary in order to protect the children.  We wouldn't want people flying  or driving out of the country in order to get away with murder.

Parent should also get the child deduction on income taxes based on conception, not birth.

I really think many people want to make abortion illegal and do nothing except maybe drag someone into court to make an example once in awhile.  I would like to hear their explanation for why this is the correct thing to do.

Marv




Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: Allinall on November 07, 2004, 04:06:46 PM
I don't think I've ever heard of dealing with murder as being such an inconvenience.  You're right Marv.  Let's allow abortions.  The alternative would inconvenience us far more than the unwanted child would inconvenience the parent.   ::)  And it is, afterall, a matter of convenience...


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: Marv on November 08, 2004, 01:44:37 AM
I didn't say to allow abortions, I didn't say anything about convenience.

I did say that all the proposals I have heard want to treat the child as less than a full human, and that that is where most people seem to be.

I am asking why people think that is the correct response.

I did also mention that getting the Supreme Court to overturn Roe v Wade is a fairy tale, maybe that is where you get that I support abortion.

Marv


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: xjesusrocksx on November 09, 2004, 10:47:45 AM
Abortion is wrong because KILLING IS WRONG.  PRESIDENT BUSH SUPPORTS KILLING INNOCENT CIVILIANS IN TRYING TO INCREASE OUR COUNTRY'S POWER IN THE WORLD.  No Christian should ever support killing and invoke God's name as his mission to do so.

President Bush is a killer.  His armies kill babies and innocent people.  If we support President Bush we support killing babies and innocent people too.

THOU SHALT NOT KILL!


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: coptic on November 09, 2004, 10:56:52 AM
Abortion is wrong because KILLING IS WRONG.  PRESIDENT BUSH SUPPORTS KILLING INNOCENT CIVILIANS IN TRYING TO INCREASE OUR COUNTRY'S POWER IN THE WORLD.  No Christian should ever support killing and invoke God's name as his mission to do so.

President Bush is a killer.  His armies kill babies and innocent people.  If we support President Bush we support killing babies and innocent people too.

THOU SHALT NOT KILL!

Bush also supports the death penalty.  Many convicted criminals have been put do death on his watch as governor of Texas (and they continue today).


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: nChrist on November 09, 2004, 06:00:27 PM
News Flash!

George W. Bush

Elected President!

YES!!!


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: 2nd Timothy on November 09, 2004, 06:18:11 PM
Rom 13:1  Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2  Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3  For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4  For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Rom 13:5  Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
Rom 13:6  For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: Shylynne on November 09, 2004, 07:35:56 PM
Too bad that all the people who know
how to run this country
are all busy driving taxis and cutting hair.
-- George Burns

  ;D


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: ollie on November 16, 2004, 06:57:29 PM
WASHINGTON -- Nearly 1.7 million military veterans have no health insurance or access to government hospitals and clinics for veterans, according to a report Tuesday from a doctors' group that favors federally financed health care. The Bush administration disputed the numbers.

The number of uninsured veterans jumped by 235,000 since 2000, meaning they are losing health insurance at a faster rate than the general population, said Physicians for a National Health Program, which advocates a universal national health insurance program. About 45 million Americans have no health insurance, including 5 million who lost coverage during the past four years, according to the Census Bureau.

"We're sending men and women off to war, and yet the people who fought previous wars can't get the basic things they need to go on with their lives afterward," said Dr. David Himmelstein, a Harvard Medical School professor and an author of the study.

The report traced some of the increase to the Bush administration's decision last year to suspend health care services for higher-income veterans who don't have service-connected illnesses or injuries. The move was intended to reduce waiting times for doctor's appointments for other veterans.

Other veterans reported they were on waiting lists for appointments, could not afford co-payments or lived in communities with no veterans' facilities, the report said.

Cynthia Church, spokeswoman for the Veterans Affairs Department, said the doctors' group was "using veterans to advance their political agenda."

The administration estimates the number of uninsured veterans at under 900,000, Church said. Wait times to see doctors also have been reduced, she said.

More than 300,000 were waiting more than six months for appointments in July 2002, she said. "Now, virtually no veteran waits more than 60 days," she said.

Like other Americans who are uninsured, most veterans have jobs. More than 85 percent worked within the past year, the report said.

Many uninsured veterans reported serious health problems, the report said. Between 20 percent and 30 percent said that they delayed or could not afford care, medications and eyeglasses.

More than 40 percent said they had no medical visits in the past year and two-thirds said they had no preventive care.

Another 3.9 million people without health insurance live in veterans' households and also are ineligible for veterans' health care, the report said.

Almost all uninsured veterans served during the Vietnam war or more recently. Those who fought in World War II and the Korean War are older than 65, making them eligible for government health care through Medicare.***

***The Herald-Sun, Durham N. C.



 





Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: sincereheart on November 17, 2004, 08:43:25 AM
*sigh*

Quote
Nearly 1.7 million military veterans have no health insurance or access to government hospitals and clinics for veterans, according to a report Tuesday from a doctors' group that favors federally financed health care.

Nearly 1.7 million military veterans.....
First, what exactly IS a veteran?  :)
Most people with no real knowledge of the military assume it means:
1 a : an old soldier of long service

But the reality of the definition is:
b : a former member of the armed forces

If someone went into the service and went to boot camp but never completed it nor even stayed in the military, they are a 'veteran'. That includes anyone who signed the dotted line- those who retired honorably with 20 or more years of service and those who never completed BMT.
So are all 'veterans' entitled to health care?  :)

Also, "While many Americans believe that all veterans can get care from the VHA, even combat veterans may not be able to obtain VHA care.  The 1996 Veterans Health Care Reform Act expanded eligibility for VHA care to all veterans, but instructed the VHA to develop priority categories for enrollment. The VHA priority list includes eight priority categories, with veterans offered care based on their priority status and the resources available."

1996. Who was President then?

As per the inaccessibility to veteran's hospitals, that's also interesting. During the Clinton administration, many VA hospitals were torn down.  :)











Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: Soldier4Christ on November 17, 2004, 10:49:48 AM
In order to be eligible for VA benefits of any sort a person must have completed a minimum of 120 days in service or have recieved a service connected disability if the time frame is less than that.

I talk with a lot of Veterans and the only ones that are being turned away are those that do not fit into the above category or are of high income and refuse to pay the required copay. The copay determination is quite generous, more so than that of Medicaid/Medicare.

During the first 4 yrs of the Bush administration it became easier for many Veterans to obtain their benefits due to cut backs in "red tape" and more thorough examinations of those leaving service. VA benefits, including those for VHA, has increased each year and had a dramatic increase for Jan 04.

The Bush Administration has several proposals ready to go before Congress to increase them even more and to stabilize
others (prevent their loss).

   


During the Clinton Administration the VA saw all kinds of cutbacks.


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: Saved_4ever on November 18, 2004, 04:46:55 AM
I looooove pooollitcal spiiiiiiinn!    ;D


As per usual if you want the real answer you need to look into it yourself.

I don't see why someone of high income and didn't really "do" anything to be a vet has a right to complain.  My sister makes a rather meager salary (she choose to go into the social work feild her fault) and can afford health care.  She has to pay it "all" out of pocket because she is technically a contractor.  Contractors don't get group benifits because work is not guaranteed.  Contractors often though not always get a higher pay because of this.  I know plenty of IT people who choose to be contractors over corp employees because the pay is better.  Sometimes they decide not to get health ins.  Whose fault is that?


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: Soldier4Christ on November 18, 2004, 12:04:39 PM
President Bush just signed in an increase in benefits for disabled Veterans, H. R. 4175. For those who wish to see more about it:

http://veterans.house.gov/news/108/10-27-04cola.html

There is currently a bill in house S. 2486 that is expected to make it all the way. President Bush supports it. This bill will increase a lot of Veterans benefits including those VHA.
For more on this including the current status on it:

http://vote.military.com/military/issues/bills/?bill=6637511



Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: nChrist on November 18, 2004, 03:08:41 PM
Pastor Roger,

It is painfully obvious that many of the good things that President Bush has done is ignored by the mainstream media. The ultra-liberal mainstream media does not want the people to know.

There are tons of examples that don't make the news at all, and there are tons of other examples that are buried on page z7 with a tiny blurb. Then, there are other examples where the news is distorted and twisted for partisan agendas.

It's pretty sad that the news media manipulates the thoughts and opinions of the public. This is a time when we almost have to find out for ourselves what the truth is.

Love In Christ,
Tom


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: Soldier4Christ on November 18, 2004, 03:37:41 PM
Pastor Roger,

It is painfully obvious that many of the good things that President Bush has done is ignored by the mainstream media. The ultra-liberal mainstream media does not want the people to know.

There are tons of examples that don't make the news at all, and there are tons of other examples that are buried on page z7 with a tiny blurb. Then, there are other examples where the news is distorted and twisted for partisan agendas.

It's pretty sad that the news media manipulates the thoughts and opinions of the public. This is a time when we almost have to find out for ourselves what the truth is.

Love In Christ,
Tom


Amen, brother BEP,

If I want to know something about Veterans Affairs I go to Veterans Affairs, If I want to know something about bills before Congress I go to their web site that lists current bills and their status on them, all available to the general public.

I don't trust the media in general, I go to the source, the horses mouth tells the truth. It is much more factual than the media.



Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: Shammu on November 19, 2004, 12:25:24 AM
Pastor Roger,

It is painfully obvious that many of the good things that President Bush has done is ignored by the mainstream media. The ultra-liberal mainstream media does not want the people to know.

There are tons of examples that don't make the news at all, and there are tons of other examples that are buried on page z7 with a tiny blurb. Then, there are other examples where the news is distorted and twisted for partisan agendas.

It's pretty sad that the news media manipulates the thoughts and opinions of the public. This is a time when we almost have to find out for ourselves what the truth is.

Love In Christ,
Tom


Amen, brother BEP,

I don't trust the media in general, I go to the source, the horses mouth tells the truth. It is much more factual than the media.


Amen brother, the media lies to everyone every day. By twisting the truth, they can make it look like anything they want.

Go in peace with God.
Bob


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: Evangelist on November 19, 2004, 02:29:15 PM
Quote
Amen brother, the media lies to everyone every day. By twisting the truth, they can make it look like anything they want.

And, they can ALWAYS find enough "haters" who will swallow their lies and spread them around everywhere.  It's unfortunate that those who do so don't have the integrity and intelligence (that they claim the "fundies" don't have) to check it out for themselves, and arrive at an impartial conclusion.

Hmmmmph!
 >:(


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: nChrist on November 19, 2004, 03:08:52 PM
Evangelist,

Brother Hank, I'm happy to claim that I belong to the "fundies".   ;D

I think that "fundies" are getting smarter by the minute.

If the ultra-liberal mainstream media needs help in getting their twisted facts right, they can hire us as consultants.   ;D

Love In Christ,
Tom


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: Evangelist on November 19, 2004, 05:30:51 PM
HAH!!! The FUNDIE Consulting Company, Inc.!!!!

A non-501(c)(3) MINISTRY!!!!!!!

(http://www.john812.com/img/consulting.gif)


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: nChrist on November 21, 2004, 04:55:46 AM
 ;D   ;D  Thanks Brother Hank - I needed that laugh!

You are awesome with the graphics.


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: Illuminati on November 25, 2004, 03:18:59 AM
Like it or not, abortion will never be criminalized.  And even if it were to be, the amount of abortions would not decrease.  Just as an example, the sale of alcohol increased during prohibition.  You have to be very careful when using the criminal law.  If you criminalize abortion, black market abortion clinics will immediately pop up, and even if you are 100% pro-life, I am sure we can all agree that if abortions are to be performed, the safety of the mother should be paramount.


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: sincereheart on November 25, 2004, 07:59:12 AM
 And even if it were to be, the amount of abortions would not decrease.
Then how is it that they've INCREASED?  ???

 
Quote
I am sure we can all agree that if abortions are to be performed, the safety of the mother should be paramount.
Hmmmmm..... If abortions are to be performed, there wouldn't be any 'mothers'. And if being pregnant makes one a 'mother', then that would make it that she is carrying a 'baby' even before birth.  ???

As for the safety issue.... 1% of abortions are for health reasons OR rape/incest combined. That leaves 99% for reasons other than those.  ::)

As a mother, my children's safety comes before mine. Please don't kill my children to save my life.  :)


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: nChrist on November 25, 2004, 10:33:24 AM
Like it or not, abortion will never be criminalized.  And even if it were to be, the amount of abortions would not decrease.  Just as an example, the sale of alcohol increased during prohibition.  You have to be very careful when using the criminal law.  If you criminalize abortion, black market abortion clinics will immediately pop up, and even if you are 100% pro-life, I am sure we can all agree that if abortions are to be performed, the safety of the mother should be paramount.

No, I wouldn't agree, and I doubt that many Christians would agree. I think that abortion is murder, and I think that it should be treated as such. The convenience and safety of the mother in killing her child is not a consideration at all. Comparing abortion to alcohol is comparing grapes to watermelons, even though alcohol was and is a plague on mankind. Yes, you guessed it, I think that prohibition of alcohol is quite reasonable. Legalization of something that is destructive and takes lives should not be done simply because people want to do it.

Tom


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: Soldier4Christ on November 25, 2004, 11:17:29 AM
The taking of innocent lives, whether a cause of alcohol, narcotics or abortion, it is all the same .....  murder. Murder accomplished by irresponsible people doing irresponsible acts looking for a way to deal with their sinful lives.

I agree with Sincereheart, a true Mother puts their children first just as a true Father would do.

Thank God I am the child of a True Father.



Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: nChrist on November 25, 2004, 10:21:04 PM
AMEN PASTOR ROGER!

Giving thanks for the sacrifice of my Lord and Saviour was number one on my list today. One has to be a Christian to understand what a joy it is to know that we have a Heavenly Father who loves us and will never forsake us. The joy just gets greater when you know that your entire family belongs to the same Heavenly Father.

This old world would be a hard place to endure without HIM.

Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable GIFT, Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour Forever!

I hope that everyone had a

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

Love In Christ,
Tom


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: Illuminati on November 26, 2004, 01:47:40 AM
The taking of innocent lives, whether a cause of alcohol, narcotics or abortion, it is all the same .....  murder. Murder accomplished by irresponsible people doing irresponsible acts looking for a way to deal with their sinful lives.

I agree with Sincereheart, a true Mother puts their children first just as a true Father would do.

Thank God I am the child of a True Father.



By your definition, Capital Punishment is murder, sure offenders on death row are for the most part not innocent, but state sanctioned murders are still murders.  So I presume you are against capital punishment.


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: Shammu on November 26, 2004, 02:11:20 AM
The taking of innocent lives, whether a cause of alcohol, narcotics or abortion, it is all the same .....  murder. Murder accomplished by irresponsible people doing irresponsible acts looking for a way to deal with their sinful lives.

I agree with Sincereheart, a true Mother puts their children first just as a true Father would do.

Thank God I am the child of a True Father.



By your definition, Capital Punishment is murder, sure offenders on death row are for the most part not innocent, but state sanctioned murders are still murders.  So I presume you are against capital punishment.
Death row is murder, but you don't know anything about me. Or know why I have this stand. I am against the death pentally.


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: gabriel on December 07, 2004, 05:23:25 AM
On the subject of abortion;

God has given mankind many great gifts.  Among them is the gift of medical science which has brought untold relief from misery and suffering throughout the world.

The claim that abortion is murder can only be defended by Christians who are also pacifists.  The reason for this is that when millions of Jewish, German and Japanese children (not to mention the Vietnamese) are murdered in war, the "Christian" military will justify it, but when a woman from Harlem or the Bronx tries to control the fertility of her own body "Christian" neocons hold up their hands in horror!

We've moved on from the time when 2 Timothy was written.  The Bible is God's Word, not his Words.  And it was not written upon metaphorical tablets of stone.

IT'S A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE!


Title: A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: Brother Love on December 07, 2004, 05:35:47 AM
On the subject of abortion;

God has given mankind many great gifts.  Among them is the gift of medical science which has brought untold relief from misery and suffering throughout the world.

The claim that abortion is murder can only be defended by Christians who are also pacifists.  The reason for this is that when millions of Jewish, German and Japanese children (not to mention the Vietnamese) are murdered in war, the "Christian" military will justify it, but when a woman from Harlem or the Bronx tries to control the fertility of her own body "Christian" neocons hold up their hands in horror!

We've moved on from the time when 2 Timothy was written.  The Bible is God's Word, not his Words.  And it was not written upon metaphorical tablets of stone.

IT'S A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE!


gabriel, II Corinthians 6:2 – "For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succored thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation."

You are privileged to live in a dispensation where God is administering His grace! Accept His free offer by faith (in His Son) today. After you leave this life it will be too late.


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: sincereheart on December 07, 2004, 07:29:59 AM
On the subject of abortion;

God has given mankind many great gifts.  Among them is the gift of medical science which has brought untold relief from misery and suffering throughout the world.
So the 'gift' of medical science is also permission for abortions?  ???

Quote
The claim that abortion is murder can only be defended by Christians who are also pacifists.  The reason for this is that when millions of Jewish, German and Japanese children (not to mention the Vietnamese) are murdered in war, the "Christian" military will justify it, but when a woman from Harlem or the Bronx tries to control the fertility of her own body "Christian" neocons hold up their hands in horror!
Controlling fertility should happen BEFORE not after.  :)
"Hands" are not "thrown up in horror" when a woman says "No" to the act that causes pregnancy.  :)

Quote
We've moved on from the time when 2 Timothy was written.  The Bible is God's Word, not his Words.  And it was not written upon metaphorical tablets of stone.
Hmmmmm..... So why bother reading the Bible?  :)

Quote
IT'S A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE!
Does the man have a say?  :)


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: nChrist on December 07, 2004, 01:08:49 PM
AMEN BROTHER LOVE AND SINCEREHEART!

We should never forget that life belongs to God, not the woman giving birth.

We should also remember some common facts about abortion that are completely true in the vast majority of cases:

It is murder for convenience sake;

It is murder to avoid responsibility for one's own acts of immorality.

Here's a fact that is true in all cases:

There are physical and/or emotional consequences for all who submit to abortions.

For all of those involved in abortion, IT IS SIN AND WRONG!

There is nothing in the Holy Bible that can be used to justify abortion. In fact, the opposite is true.

There is no comparison between abortion and war. Trying to tie the two together to find some sort of Biblical justification for abortion is completely false.

Love in Christ,
Tom

Psalms 127:1  Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.



Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: gabriel on December 08, 2004, 05:01:49 AM
AMEN BROTHER LOVE AND SINCEREHEART!

We should never forget that life belongs to God, not the woman giving birth.

We should also remember some common facts about abortion that are completely true in the vast majority of cases:

It is murder for convenience sake;

It is murder to avoid responsibility for one's own acts of immorality.

Here's a fact that is true in all cases:

There are physical and/or emotional consequences for all who submit to abortions.

For all of those involved in abortion, IT IS SIN AND WRONG!

There is nothing in the Holy Bible that can be used to justify abortion. In fact, the opposite is true.

There is no comparison between abortion and war. Trying to tie the two together to find some sort of Biblical justification for abortion is completely false.

Love in Christ,
Tom

Psalms 127:1  Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.




Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: gabriel on December 08, 2004, 06:22:37 AM
Replying to blackeyedpeas and sincereheart;

Those who oppose abortion come out with emotional platitutes about arms and legs kicking, etc., in an effort to drum up support among the well-heeled mothers of the middle classes (and those women who, through their own choice, have never had to go through the problems which a black woman in Alabama or, more obviously, Africa have to endure because they have to have child after child.  Such women are in such circumstances, not because of "immorality" (and if we're to take the Bible literally I presume you take Genesis 9:24 literally), but because of economic circumstances brought about by those fortunate enough to be Dives while they are Lazarus.  While we are on the subject of dispensations, let us remember Luke 16:31.

REND YOUR HEARTS AND NOT YOUR GARMENTS!


Title: Re:A reason to vote for President Bush
Post by: sincereheart on December 08, 2004, 06:46:40 AM
Replying to blackeyedpeas and sincereheart;

Those who oppose abortion come out with emotional platitutes about arms and legs kicking, etc., in an effort to drum up support among the well-heeled mothers of the middle classes (and those women who, through their own choice, have never had to go through the problems which a black woman in Alabama or, more obviously, Africa have to endure because they have to have child after child.  Such women are in such circumstances, not because of "immorality" (and if we're to take the Bible literally I presume you take Genesis 9:24 literally), but because of economic circumstances brought about by those fortunate enough to be Dives while they are Lazarus.  While we are on the subject of dispensations, let us remember Luke 16:31.

REND YOUR HEARTS AND NOT YOUR GARMENTS!

Hmmmm..... "Emotional platitudes"? Like the ones you used?
Are you a woman? Are you black? Do you live in Alabama or Africa?  ???