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Most of the americans on this forum probably won't have heard of a 80's band called 'The Smiths'. anywayz, there personally one of my favourte bands.  They did a song called 'Meat is Murder', i think its a very powerful and correct song, i've been a vegetarian for about 9 years now and anyone else who is a vegetarian on the forum can definately relate to these lyrics, and maybe the meats eaters on hear might be converted you never know.  Anywayz here are the lyrics to the song...


Heifer whines could be human cries
Closer comes the screaming knife
This beautiful creature must die
This beautiful creature must die
A death for no reason
And death for no reason is murder

And the flesh you so fancifully fry
Is not succulent, tasty or kind
It’s death for no reason
And death for no reason is murder

And the calf that you carve with a smile
Is murder
And the turkey you festively slice
Is murder
Do you know how animals die ?

Kitchen aromas aren’t very homely
It’s not comforting, cheery or kind
It’s sizzling blood and the unholy stench
Of murder

It’s not natural, normal or kind
The flesh you so fancifully fry
The meat in your mouth
As you savour the flavour
Of murder

No, no, no, it’s murder
No, no, no, it’s murder
Oh ... and who hears when animals cry ?

Every hear a fruit or vegatable cry? Probably not however, life is life and fruits and vegatables are life. Lets stop eating all together so everything else on the planet can live. If you want to stop eating meat thats your choice.

I personally could not go without meat or fish. There are natural nutrients that you can't get ...unless you take supplements. Even then, supplements are more expensive and they cant cover everything a good salmon or steak provides your body.

While we are quoting songs, here is one for you:

Should I See
by Frozen Ghost

cover my eyes and ears
til it all dissapears
how can you judge for me
what i should hear and see
you take away freedom of choice
take away the right to voice
my beliefs and and all my views
you take away my right to choose

chorus:
(na na na na na naaaah...)
show me what should i see
(na na na na na naaaah...)
make my mind up for me

how can you censor my thought
what is right what is not
how is it you decide
what i should feel inside
quoting god as you discuss
what is right and wrong for us
you inundate us with your views
you take away my right to choose

(repeat chorus)

you take away freedom of choice
you take away my right to voice
my beliefs and all my views
you take away my right to choose

(repeat chorus )

...make my mind up for me
show me what should i see

when talking about being a meat eater or a vegetarian, it makes me think of verses like Exodus 16:8. Depending on what Bible you use it says something like this:

          "And Moses said, This shall be, when the Lord shall
           give you flesh to eat, and in the morning bread to
           the full............."

In the feeding of the 5 thousands, Jesus provided fish and bread. (Luke chapter 9).  And oh yes here is another one Mark 7:18-23 and I quote from my Bible as Jesus himself spoke (again look up in your own Bible.)

          "Are you so dull?" He asked. "Don't you see that
           nothings that enters a man from the outside can
           make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart
           but into his stomach, and then out of his body."
           (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean").
           He went on: What comes out of a man is what
           makes him 'unclean'. For from within, out of men's
           hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft,
           murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness,
           envy, slander, arrogance and folly. all these evils
           come from inside and make a man 'unclean'."

 This impresses upon me that God/Jesus offered fish and meat(flesh) and bread etc. to use for our food. Man's reasoning is not the same as God's reasoning. If God blessed these things as food for our body, I don't see why I should see it as differently. I will be more concern about what I feed my soul. Thank you for the thoughts.

Van.  ;)

well said van

What I find humerous about people who tell you how to eat is they rarely, if ever tell you how to exercise. They have people believing that its mostly the eating habbits will make you healthier. Atleast 30min Exercise a day on whatever eating habit you choose to go with is half the battle.

eg: I'd really like to hear what Atkin's would say about all the carbs Lance Armstrong eats.

-

Re:Meat is Murder

Meat is Yummy!  ;D

Would you consider someone who killed and human to eat them right???



It seems the Christians Unite forum is rather anti-vegetarian

We didn't work our way to the top of the food chain to just eat  fruits and vegatables  ;)

Honestly though, eat what makes your body feel good. Just be sure to exercise too!

*I* certainly have nothing against vegetarians...I even tried being one a few years back.

I'd just like to point out, though...

''The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance  and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air.  And a voice came to him, "Rise, Peter; kill and eat." But Peter said, "Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean." And a voice spoke to him again the second time, "What God has cleansed you must not call common."  This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again. '' Acts 10:9-18

God gave us permission to eat these.
So I am not sinning if I sit down to supper of beef briskit, it is just that you find it unpleasent that we kill animals and eat.

I have to agree with you, sincereheart. ;D
I have nothing against any vegetarians, more power to you if you can make it work for you.
I would never make a good vegetarian. I like the taste of meat too much. What you buy is what you get, if you buy cheap meat thats what you get.  

I like cats!

Tastes like chicken.... ;D

just kidding....you can relax now!

Grace and Peace!

I'm having a difficult time looking at the wrestling woman and reconciling your vegetarian views..... :-X

"Would you consider someone who killed and human to eat them right???"
 ??? I don't follow this....

1 Timothy 4:
3   Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4   For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5   For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
6   If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

I'll stick with God's Word and enjoy that freshly hunted meat! ;)

The best cut of beef is a sloppy cheese buger!

I'll stick with God's Word and enjoy that freshly hunted meat grocery store meat!  >:(

Freshly hunted meat has a better taste. It also doesn't have all the junk added to the meat.

Bambi stew  ;D

dont I know it  >:(

Yummmmmmmy ;D

I do, I have had both. ;D

I was a vegetarian for almost 10 years until I ended up in the Emergency Room with my heart beating out of control.  Doctor advised me to add fish to my diet.  I did so. It's been 3 years and my heart has never again given me a problem!

I used to work with a fellow from India who was a vegitarian.  His wife always sent these large salads and strange vegetibles to work in his lunch.   I got him to try a chicken sandwich one night at Jack In the Box, and He loved it...lol   He had to have one every time we went afterwards.

I teased him all the time after that by saying, "I'm gonna tell your wife you eat Chicken!"...lol   He thought it was funny too.   Great guy, good sense of humor!

Grace and Peace!

 :)

I don't have a problem with you being a vegetarian Luke O  ;)

But I noted what you said is not based on http://'The Word of God'. We must always remember that God is not a man that He should lie Num 23:19 .

God never changes & His Word is the Truth.

Rom 12:2  And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

God bless you...enjoy your veggies ;)

One huge injustice that i have found out, and something that i really don't understand personally is, say someone killed a man and ate him, that person would be jailed for life, in some places sentenced to death.  But if he ate any other animal that is deemed socially and globally acceptable....it's a crazy world.

Life is better on the top of the food chain. ;D

Do you consider the carrot as you slice it up?

If a cat eats a mouse that's survival. If a cat eats another cat, that's cannibalism!  ;D

Life is better on the top of the food chain.  ;D
 ;D

;D

I just eat TWO Hot Dogs watching SMACKDOWN ;D

<:)))><

so have I!   >:(
your not getting it DW, I WANT freshly hunted meat  :P

Its OK to eat meat today...

http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=22;action=display;threadid=4200

<:)))><

Hunt for your own, I wasn't able to get out to hunt........  :'(
I haven't been able to hunt for the past 3 years.

I haven`t had any for about that long either, hence the face... >:(
AJ (hubby) finds carrying the gun to painful...
and he wont let me carry one cause I might ...well I might scare all the wildlife across state line LOL!  :-X
I could shoot a moose, I know I could  >:(

Amen!! Sincereheart  ;D

Or the broad side of a barn. ;D ;)

I had a big old ham yesterday :)

Its OK to eat meat today...

http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=22;action=display;threadid=4200

<:)))><

*In Homers voice* Hmmmmmmmm Hammmmmmmm ;D

>:(   ;D  :P

ROFL!! ;D

You guys ever considered hunting a human?

You guys ever considered hunting a human?

Nope. Too rancid!  ::)


If a cat eats a mouse that's survival. If a cat eats another cat, that's cannibalism!  ;D

only with a paintball gun  ;D

Hmmm....that would fall under the catagory of canablism, or eating manwich wouldn't it?   ;D


Then again, as Christians we don't hunt man, we fish for them!   ;)

AMEN! 2T

ROFL...on both comments!

Wouldn't a man-wich be a war-lock?  ???

 ;D

Sorry....I'm trying to figure out how to do these quotes without putting all the quotes from previous but haven't found the outer thread yet I guess.

Actually, it was trying to be a play on the word sandwich as in manwich...  oh well, guess everyone didn't get it.

Grace and Peace!

If I understand right, just cut and paste the text you wish to quote and surround it with

[ quote ] whatever text [ /quote ]  

no spaces between the [ ] and quote's though.

Grace and Peace!

I did so get it!  :P I cook Manwich as often as I can get away with!  ;D

The Man Witch (wich) = 'Warlock' was an attempt to play on words. Oh well, guess NO ONE got it!  :-X  ;D

Boo, hiss...........
(http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/rolleyes1.gif)



(http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/smile6.gif)

LOL....boo hiss is my wifes favorite saying....TO ME! lol

Me thinks she doesn't appreciate me humor all the time.   8)

I can believe it 2T.

I wonder why she doesn't appreciate your humor. ;D

BOO HISS!!
Too much testosterone in here!  :P

what oh what has beocme of my thread :'(

Sorry, sincereheart.............






[size=10]NOT!!!!!![/size]

It has been hijacked. :-[
Ok now back on track.

Okay I am a meat eater, I love meat. The Human teeth are for eating meat.

Vegetarians are denying themselves a basic human comfort- eating the charred flesh of others. Who can help but see a cow in a field and think, "flank steak!" Or a fish in a pond and not think "Filet O' Fish" or "whaler"? It is only natural.

So who is really the Killer?
I believe you should eat whatever you want- when you want it. Why is it OK for the French to eat Horse, but it is ILLEGAL in California? Or how the Chinese who go ga-ga for Cat? Or how about the Koreans and Dogs? You may think of them as pets, but to them, they are Livestock.

"Eating a salad kills dozens of living plants.

DITTO ;D

 whatsoever is foolishness will come unraveled -book of shylynne  :-X


hmm...the pic there depicts something interesting... beat another human being to a bloody pulp and leave him for dead in a boxing ring and call it sport...kill an animal  call it murder ...I recognize insane reasoning...because ...well...i`m insane  :P

Nuft said.....................  ;D

 [size=10]IS`SO!!!!!!!![/size] :P

 

QUOTE Shylynne:  I recognize insane reasoning...because ...well...i`m insane

Shylynne, you get "TWO"Thumbs UP


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN!!!!!




 ;D ;D ;D

<:)))><

[size=10]Tain't not !!!!!!!![/size]

Now I'm wondering what you are going to say, about my post before this one.

gonna say


BIG AND LOUD NEVER MADE A MAN RIGHT :P

Eating a salad kills dozens of living plants.

 :'( Save a plant - eat a cow!  :'(

 ;D

Personally, I believe in saving as many peas as I can! YUCK! :P

 ;D  Peas are YUMMY, its asparagus thats YUCK  :-X

You are so right. ;D

Hee, hee, hee, hehehehehehehehehehehehehe ;D

I like peas they are good. I also grow peas in the garden, so there fresh. ;D

Amen Shylynne

why nice to see you being so agreeable!  8)

Why thank you Shylynne, Or should I say Shy. ;D

hmmm you make some interesting if not sarcastic points there but i repect your opinion.  Pointing something out though, you seem it contradict yourself in your post.  You say "murder is murder" but later on you say "I believe you should eat whatever you want- when you want it".....ermmm well what if i woke up one day and wanted to eat a human, surely judging by what you said, it will be ok, yes?  

Eating salads does kill plants, but not forgeting plants don't have pain receptors or emotions,as animals do.

"The Human teeth are for eating meat"..this was one of the things you said that actually made sense, yeah your right humans teeth are design for eating meat, but humans evolve.  We are supposed to be the most advanced animal on the planet, then how come we have to kill other animals to survive, i'm sure if there was a more advanced animal killing humans for no reason we would look at things very differently.

In my opinion with humans we are NOT the most advanced animal on the planet, how can the most advanced animal on the planet do the only one that is destroying it?  


anywayz rant over

It will be interesting to hear everyone elses thoughts...please try not to be too derogetary, i'm 17 and i'm showing more maturity here :-\ :-\ :-\

Hi.

I think its already been established that eating meat is ok both secularly and in accordance to God. If you just want a logical argument, consider animals eating other animals. Is this considered murder? This is nature and without it, predator eating prey, all the animals in this world could not exist. Disruption of the food chain causes imbalances in the species' population so it is actually imperitive for predators to find its prey. This is nature and since we are animals too...why would it be right for animals to eat each other but wrong for humans to eat animals?

About humans being the most advanced creature on this planet, according to scripture God let man rule over all creatures on the earth. Humans are not the most advanced creature persay on biological complexity; we just have higher intelligence and reasoning. We were created in the image of God. We are far different than any other creature on this earth in this respect. We have the power to control the environment. It can be for good or bad. This would bring humans to the top of the heirarchy of the animal kingdom.

So basically, humans are the rulers of this earth and everything in it just about. We can eat just about anything. We can do just about anything with the earth. Ultimately, we are free to make any choice we want...such as to eat or not eat meat.

There is nothing wrong with eating meat, eating anything other than meat, or eating only candy (very bad for your health though). There is nothing ethically wrong with any of that. I'd say that being a vegetarian is a very healthy lifestyle. I'm just now being to eat a little more veges now. I feel a lot better physically.

Seems to this old lady this forum is becoming too 'off color'.

I would that the RCC and the Prods would battle.......

Yes plants do feel pain.

Here is the link (http://www.department13designs.com/vegan.html)

Scientists Prove Plants Feel Pain, Vegans Face Starvation

DALLAS--Research scientists at Baylor Medical Center have proven that plants, including vegetables, feel pain when subjected to trauma such as being yanked out of the ground, peeled, cooked, and eaten. "Veggies and plants initiate a massive hormone and chemical barrage internally when they suffer any kind of injury," says professor Barry Lindzer. "This response is akin to the nerve response and endorphin release when an animal is injured. We cannot ignore the similarities." When Tarnish asked professor Lindzer and his research team what they thought this finding might mean, they responded unanimously, "Nobel prize, baby!"

Other agencies, namely People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals and the sum total of the world's hard-core vegetarians (known as vegans) registered formal complaints against the research. Their team of lawyers has already submitted a motion to have the results of the research destroyed or sealed. Others fear the damage has already been done. A spokesman for PETA said, "This is bad for us. Most of our members haven't eaten anything since hearing about the results. Our lawyers are looking into suing Mother Earth for false advertising, but concede that the suit will probably be inconclusive. In the meantime we'll be surviving on vitamin supplements and water."

In an ironic related story, a dozen PETA protesters picketing the Hungry Carnivore Steak House in New York City were allegedly assaulted by three patrons of the restaurant. Eyewitnesses say that the picketers were making their typical nuisance display of scorn and righteous indignation over the willful consumption of "the flesh of murdered animals" outside the Hungry Carnivore when two unidentified men and a woman stepped out of the establishment and sprayed the picketers with several gallons of what appeared to be blood. Victims and bystanders alike were surprised to discover that the liquid was actually V-8 juice. The truly shocking result of the alleged attack was the reaction of the picketers. All of the PETA protesters were wracked with convulsions and suffered hours of dry heaves while many of the bystanders merely laughed. This reaction within vegetarianism's great bastion of faith has many true believers reconsidering their dietary requirements. Others are quietly making funeral arrangements and the Environmental Protection Agency is considering declaring vegans an endangered species.

(http://www.shoptcs.com/DT.gif)

Hmmmmmmmmm a dagwood. ;D

Animals eat other animals becuase they have no alternative, humans have the option, we can live health life styles without eating meat.  yes our body won't get certain things that it needs, but meat also provides the body with many unhealth things.



Regardless of what the religious view is, and just looking ast the facts, humans being the most intelligent animals is clearly false.  Humans may have the larger brain, but we only use 10% resulting in us having a much lower brain capasity than other animals.  Lets just look at human behaviour, destroying the planet, killing other humans for no reason, yeha these definately sound like the actionsof the mostintelligent animal on the planet.

Along with intelligence comes responsibility. Animals have no responsibility; humans do. Along with intelligence comes conscience...animals have none; most humans have one, but not all of them, apparently, or else they are ignoring it. Because the actions of some are apparently, somewhat less than thoughtful, does not make all of humanity the same.

God apparently thinks humans are worth something, or He wouldn't have given us His greatest gift....Jesus.


Animals have the same alternative man has, when you come right down to it. There are plenty of animals who are not carnivorous...and they survive quite handily.

God gave man the authority and dominion over animals...not over each other (God is my authority; He has dominion in my life). Equating meat-eating with the eating of humans makes no sense whatsoever. God's word has never said humans may eat humans....  What an odd argument to use.

Personally, I have no problem with vegans...my daughter calls herself a "pastatarian"....she doesn't like meat, but eats plenty of pasta, veggies, fruit etc..... She does, however, cook meat for her husband and has no problem doing that.

I don't see the point in this at all....if you don't like meat, don't eat it. But don't tell everybody else it's wrong, when God clearly says it isn't wrong.

peace

First of all i'd like to like your post was very constructive, and did make some good points, some i disagreed with though, not trying to changed your view, just giving my opinion....


Do other animals not gave to shelter, feed and care for their young?  Do they not feel sadness, happiness, worry? ...


Yeah i'm not that religious of a guy, sothis is where our opinion iwll obviously varie.  But, surely driving your car, making a fire, etc etc all things that destroy the earth is wrong aswell.  I'm sure God wouldn't be too thrilled to see his own creation being destroyed.  


This thread is meant for opinions, i'm not dictating to people that they have to stop eating meat, i'm just giving reasons why i think it is wrong.  Seen as though the thread is under the categorie 'Debate' i think it is appropriate.


Just a general theory, and i'm probably gonna offend people here or summin.  But God surely made mistakes in his life, and said things he regretted, maybe he might not be right about humans eating meat.  Human's are all about individuality, surely just doing something cause someone else said you should is like a sheep following a herd....just my opinion anywayz, hope i haven't angered anyone.

Sister Reba,

Please accept my apology for missing the WAY 'off color' post.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Thank you Mr. Beapster!

Again you have shown yourself to be a man worthy of respect. :)

And mine for the posting of it.
Now what does RCC and the Prods mean??

Thank you DW!  :)

THE war here, in the forums, between the cathalics and the prodistents. But as you can see i cant spell.... so it gets 'shorthanded' to RCC and Prods.  ;D

LOL! That you are Luke O  ;)

Trouble is, its difficult to take this thread very seriously when the subject foolishly argues against what God has already said about it... carry on  :D

Oklahoma Howdy to Luke O,

Almighty God gave us many things for the nourishment of our bodies, including the meat of animals. I have no problem at all with you being a vegetarian, but there is nothing in the Holy Bible about it being wrong for man to eat the things God has provided.

Giving thanks to God for whatever we eat is the least we can do to show our appreciation for what God has provided. This is really what this boils down do. If you feel badly about eating meat, don't eat it, but give thanks for the fruit and vegetables you do eat.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[

Wouldn't a man-wich be a war-lock?  ???

 ;D


Actually, it was trying to be a play on the word sandwich as in manwich...  oh well, guess everyone didn't get it.

Grace and Peace!

I did so get it!  :P I cook Manwich as often as I can get away with!  ;D

The Man Witch (wich) = 'Warlock' was an attempt to play on words. Oh well, guess NO ONE got it!  :-X  ;D

I GOT IT, I GOT IT !!!  :D :D :D

You missed the point here.
You said "humans have the option"...yes i have established that by saying:


The point is not about whether animals have an alternative or not (and if you want to go with that argument consider omnivores...many animals can eat both meat and veges...they have a choice). The point is that in nature, animals eat each other. Therefore, since we are part of nature, why would it be wrong for us to eat other animals.




Very erroneous. I think you are confusing ethos with logos. Ethos is what humans do that can have a good/bad impact on the world, organisms, and us. The intelligence of a human has nothing to do with this. You actually did point it out yourself. You refered to it as the behavior of humans...but behavior and intelligence are completely different things. What you would be implying is this: I'm freezing cold and I am going to cut down some trees and burn it to keep myself from freezing to death. Since I'm cutting down trees and burning them (harming the environment)...that makes me stupid. simply not valid; it doesnt make much sense. I have pointed out earlier:

1) We have the power to control the environment.
2)humans are the rulers of this earth and everything in it.
3)We can eat just about anything.
4)We can do just about anything with the earth.
and key statement
5)It can be for gOOd or bAd.

So yes, humans destroy the environment (that's the bAd part) and humans also rebuild and improve the environement (that's the gOOd part...btw that's why there are environmental engineers).

Humans are not animals. We were made in the image of God. God said all animals are for us to eat and not to be refused.

DITTO ;D

It's a scientific fact humans are animals

Hmmm....I wont argue symantics, but having both eyes in front, makes this predator skilled at measuring distance, and leathal while hunting KFC-Bird in the asphalt jungle!

(http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/hungry.gif)   ;D

I am mindful however to offer thanks to God for Bird, and the Colonel!   :D

It's a Biblical fact we are not animals. Science books are always having to be changed because they are wrong. The Bible is never wrong and has always been proved to be true.

Genesis1:25: And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

And it is not a scientific FACT that we are animals. People just say that and others follow along with that saying. Our DNA makeup is completly different. THAT is a scientific FACT.

Hey Tim i think i saw  'that' wild bird over here'  http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=4955;start=165 (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=4955;start=165)

I guess it's purely a religious thing then i guess.  Depends on your view of the bible.

Brother, I would have to respectfully disagree. It has absolutely nothing to do with religion or the Bible, rather a personal choice by you. The Holy Bible is quite blunt and clear that God made many things for the nourishment of our bodies, including animals. There isn't even a hint in the Holy Bible that people shouldn't eat meat. The closest one can get is meat that was considered unclean under the Law for the Jews. Other than that, the teaching of the Holy Bible is the opposite - man may eat meat and give thanks for it.

So, being a vegetarian is a personal choice and has absolutely nothing to do with the Holy Bible. It's fine to make that choice, but it isn't fine to hint that the Holy Bible teaches it. Further, there is no hint that man is doing anything wrong by eating meat. So eat meat or don't eat meat, but you would be wrong to suggest that God doesn't want us to eat what he provided for our nourishment.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ahhhhh right, well that is actually good to know.  I was only basing the judgement that it depends on your view of the bible because the rest of the posts seemingly seem to go by whatever the bible says on the issue whether to eat meat or not, i maybe be wrong, that's just the impression i got :-\ :-\

The "Humans are not animals" part is not quite right. According to science we ARE classified as animals. All living organisms have DNA and so do humans. Thus, all organism are essentially the same thing. Biologically we exist in the same system as any other animal including bacteria.

You have the right train of thought with wrong facts. A post a said earlier may clarify some things:

...But we are still animals (creatures)


Science correctly classifies humans as a type of animal. Of the 2 living systems plants and animals, we fall under animals. Sadly, for those who dont know the truth from God, they believe that this is ALL they are. We are quite more than just animals alone, we were created to be in God's image. As christians we know that we were designed to become like Jesus the son of God, so that we too may be the children of God. As christians, this is the good news we have over many atheists who believe that, just like any other animal, we are destined to return to the dirt. This is true just as the bible says that we came from dirt. But we know that our physical bodies die, but we ourselves do not. We ourselves go to live with God forever. "We ourselves" is what science cannot see.

Is Manwich and Sandwich anything like Spinach?


I can hear spinach start to squeal everytime I take a bite.



      ;D

ROFL!!  ;D

Science may classify man as an animal, but God does not. God created man separately and unique from animals with a conscience, soul, and spirit that answers to God. Animals do NOT answer to God, and neither do plants. God wouldn't care what scientists call man, but God uniquely called them man and woman, not animal. Animals and plants were made for the nourishment of man, and some animals were and still are used for beasts of burden or work. Jesus Christ did NOT die on the Cross for animals, rather for man.

The birds of the air, fish of the sea, and land animals do not include man, nor are they subject to judgment or condemnation. Almighty God, the Creator, called man "man", and He put man in dominion over all other creatures. Man was made in God's image, but animals were NOT. In short, plants and animals are food, but man is not. There isn't a single portion of the Holy Bible that suggests or hints anything different.

Regarding classification by scientists, The Creator already did that, and He doesn't agree.

Love In Christ,
Tom

i've been a vegetarian for about 9 years now....

You've been a vegetarian since you were 8? Then that would REALLY mean that your parents are?  ???






*edited for that typing flu again--achoo*

::gigles quietly and whispers, so as not to disturb serious meat murdering posters::::  "good one"!!!!

I try to eat meat six days a week.


I EAT FISH ON FRIDAYS







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Absolutly right on Tom. Thank you for that post.

So where do eggs fall into it?  :P

I'm love vegetables and meat, but I am a Christian first before all these things.  Consider these verses and God Bless each one of you.

ROMANS 14:1 Now receive the one who is weak in the faith, and do not have disputes over differing opinions.  14:2 One person believes in eating everything, but the weak person eats only vegetables. 14:3 The one who eats everything must not despise the one who does not, and the one who abstains must not judge the one who eats everything, for God has accepted him. 14:4 Who are you to pass judgment on another's servant? Before his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

14:5 One person regards one day holier than other days, and another regards them all alike. Each must be fully convinced in his own mind. 14:6 The one who observes the day does it for the Lord. The one who eats, eats for the Lord because he gives thanks to God, and the one who abstains from eating abstains for the Lord, and he gives thanks to God. 14:7 For none of us lives for himself and none dies for himself. 14:8 If we live, we live for the Lord; if we die, we die for the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's. 14:9 For this reason Christ died and returned to life, so that he may be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

14:10 But you who eat vegetables only--why do you judge your brother or sister? And you who eat everything--why do you despise your brother or sister? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. 14:11 For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow to me, and every tongue will give praise to God." 14:12 Therefore, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

14:13 Therefore we must not pass judgment on one another, but rather determine never to place an obstacle or a trap before a brother or sister. 14:14 I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean in itself; still, it is unclean to the one who considers it unclean. 14:15 For if your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat,you are no longer walking in love.  Do not destroy by your food someone for whom Christ died. 14:16 Therefore do not let what you consider good be spoken of as evil. 14:17 For the kingdom of God does not consist of food and drink, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. 14:18 For the one who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by people.

AMEN!  Excellent first post  pak11273.

Welcome to CU!

Grace and Peace!

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Because they are made out of meat, by God.

People who are vegetarian (or even worse vegan  >:( ) because they think eating meat is murder drive me nuts.  Humans are omnivores which means we eat everything.  MMMM good, hey Luke O ya want some of me beef jerky,  mmmm tasty.   :P

Did you know that ALL plants move away from you when you go to pick them?  I suppose since they're mute it doesn't count to you.   ::)

MMMM lettuce and spinach.... tasty.  O O did I hear a whimper?   :P

Even better I wonder how much leather product Luke O owns.  I love it when a vegan tells me about murder and exploytation of animals while they wear some nice leather shoes.   ???

 My frying pan!  :D

Could i point out that vegetarians are at the very least hypocrites as they still use animal products. So for instance they drink milk, only the cows can produce milk, and since the farmer can't use all the bulls (some will be needed to maintain the populations), most are killed for meat. So a vegetarian actually helps support the farmer too.

That's why there are vegans.   ::)

For those of us ignorant meat-eaters.... what's the difference between a 'vegan' and a 'vegetarian'?  :-X

People who refuse to eat or use ANYTHING that comes from animals because its just exploiting animals.   ::)

They believe it is immoral to use animals for our own benifits of any kind. "We" are more advanced and civialized and so do not need animals for "living".  The ones that stick to it all the way are often under nurished and have to take tons of supplements.  They only eat organically grown veggies (no chemical at all very expensive) and everything else is fake (like them) I mean synthetic.  The even eat special salt and stuff.  It's mind boggling really.  It always seems more like a sick obsession than anything else.  It takes so much energy to live on a daily basis you can't do much else.  I guess until you are fully used ot it and all.

It was a big thing when I was in college.  I had a few aquaintences that were vegan.  I used to tease them like crazy.  I was most assuredly obnoxious as can be towards them.  I used to tell them is was because they just needed some cause and it was cool.  There was a music style that went with it back then too (granted not everyone fits in here but at the time and age bracket...).  Extremely loud heavy metal type of music with lots of screamming.  I used to tell them they were all screaming cuz they all really wanted a nice juicy steak and were malnurished.

I would also make a point to eat meat in front of them ALL the time whether it was beef jerky or a burger.  I of course would ALWAYS offer them some.  Just being gracious after all.  The best was to eat something like Ribs of Chicken wings and relish the fact that I was tearing the flesh off of bone.  I'd make it as gross as possible to while telling them how good it was and the satisfaction of "gnawing" on flesh. hehehe I was such a jerk.     :-[ :-X :P

So a vegetarian won't eat meat but a vegan won't eat anything that has to do with animals?  :-\

More burgers for me!  ;D


ROFL!  :-X

Not only not eat but not wear or use.  Clipping lambs is just as evil to vegans as eating them.  So you can have more wool sweaters too.   ;)

Even clipping lambs?  :-X
Now if only I could afford those sweaaters!  ;D

So does that mean that they can't have any medical procedures done that were ever tested on animals first?  ;)

What and let themselves die?

I think you overestimate them....

Few of our domestic animals would exist if they weren't raised for meat, wool, milk, etc.

Farmers make their living raising them to sell as food, but few could afford to keep them just as pets.

The of course there were those murderous Jews, who sacrificed animals on a regular basis at the Temple for no other purpose than to deal with sin. This would include Jesus, I expect, for though he didn't sin he was Jewish and followed Jewish practices..

Seems like someone should read their Bible before inserting foot. God provided for man ever since Eden (the stomach);There some verses worth looking up on man -animals of the earth. The person who started this originally should base his decesions on the Bible and not some "singing group".

Act 10:10  And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
Act 10:11  And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Act 10:12  Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Act 10:13  And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
Act 10:14  But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Act 10:15  And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.


Rom 14:2  For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3  Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.


Praise and Thanks to God for the meat that I am about to eat.

Pastor Roger,

A Second AMEN BROTHER!!

I give thanks that God has provided so many things for the nourishment of our bodies. It is simply another time to give thanks to God before we eat.

Love In Christ,
Tom

The stench of ignorance hangs heavy in the air.

…
Originally posted by anduril:  Every hear a fruit or vegatable cry? Probably not however, life is life and fruits and vegatables are life. Lets stop eating all together so everything else on the planet can live.
…

Though any loss of life, whether it be a plant or animal, is lamentable.  However, if one would do even minimal research, one would find that eating a plant-based diet is in fact causing much less harm and loss of life than a meat-inclusive diet.

First, plants do not feel pain and are incapable of suffering.  Second, what do you think all of those animals eat?  Plants!  Depending on the animal, anywhere from 3 to 20 (roughly) pounds of plants have to be consumed in order to produce a single pound of nutritionally inferior meat.

We should not all commit suicide because we want to harm nothing.  We should, though, seek to cause minimal harm through our actions.  A vegan diet is obviously the superior choice.

…
Originally posted by anduril:  I personally could not go without meat or fish. There are natural nutrients that you can't get ...unless you take supplements. Even then, supplements are more expensive and they cant cover everything a good salmon or steak provides your body.
…

Yes, you could, you are just ignorant to the facts.  Every nutrient except for Vitamin B12 and Vitamin D can be supplied by plant based foods.  Vitamin D is synthesized by the skin from contact with the sun (20 minutes a day on only the hands and face provide enough), and vitamin B12 requirements can be more than easily met with supplements and fortified foods.  Some plants actually do have B12 on them, but our hygienic practices usually wash all of it off of our plant food sources.

Here is an interesting quote:
"It's bizarre, really: You take a crop like soy, oats, corn, or wheat, products high in fiber and complex carbohydrates, but devoid of cholesterol and artery-clogging saturated fat. You put them into an animal and create something with no fiber or complex carbohydrates at all, but with lots of cholesterol and saturated fat. It makes about as much sense to take pure water, run it through a sewer system, and then drink it."
--- Bruce Friedrich, director of vegan outreach, PETA

Just for the record, 99.9% of all plant-based foods are low in fat and all are devoid of cholesterol.  Some basic research would show that a vegan diet is superior in every way to a meat-inclusive diet.

…
Originally posted by anduril:  What I find humerous about people who tell you how to eat is they rarely, if ever tell you how to exercise. They have people believing that its mostly the eating habbits will make you healthier. Atleast 30min Exercise a day on whatever eating habit you choose to go with is half the battle.
…

Let’s use some common sense:  if you have a low intake of fat and cholesterol, is rigorous exercise even necessary to make sure you counteract their negative effects on your body?

For the record, again, most plant-based foods are very low in fat (and even lower in saturated fat) and possess no cholesterol.  Also, carbohydrates (the single most efficient fuel for your body) are plentiful in many plant-based foods and non-existent in animal products.  Same with fiber.

…
We didn't work our way to the top of the food chain to just eat  fruits and vegatables  

Honestly though, eat what makes your body feel good. Just be sure to exercise too!
…

Please.  The ‘food chain’ is merely a concept thought up by humans in order to justify their immense conceitedness and evil ways.  Keep hiding behind the “natural, meant-to-be” fantasy.

Not to mention that just because you have the ability to do something, does not mean you should do it.  

Yes, just eat whatever satisfies your taste buds and feels good in the short term, no matter how many were brutally slaughtered for it or the deadly negative effects it will have on you and the biosphere later.  It’s all about you right now.

At least we can agree on the exercise.

…
Originally posted by Luke O:  One huge injustice that i have found out, and something that i really don't understand personally is, say someone killed a man and ate him, that person would be jailed for life, in some places sentenced to death.  But if he ate any other animal that is deemed socially and globally acceptable....it's a crazy world.
…

It is called racism.

…
Originally posted by Saved_4ever:  Humans are omnivores which means we eat everything.
…

Only if we choose to.  How primeval of you.

…
Originally posted by Saved_4ever:  Did you know that ALL plants move away from you when you go to pick them?  I suppose since they're mute it doesn't count to you.
…

Really?  Please produce some credible scientific evidence.

And no, their lack of screams mean nothing.  I consider killing and eating fish to be wrong, and they are mute.  The point is whether or not they are capable of suffering and feeling pain.  

…
Originally posted by Saved_4ever:  I love it when a vegan tells me about murder and exploytation of animals while they wear some nice leather shoes.
…

They are certainly hypocrites, then.

…
Originally posted by Kalthzar:  Could i point out that vegetarians are at the very least hypocrites as they still use animal products. So for instance they drink milk, only the cows can produce milk, and since the farmer can't use all the bulls (some will be needed to maintain the populations), most are killed for meat. So a vegetarian actually helps support the farmer too.
…

Indeed.  While vegetarianism is a good start, in that stage of evolution alone it is still hypocrisy.

…
Originally posted by sincereheart:  For those of us ignorant meat-eaters.... what's the difference between a 'vegan' and a 'vegetarian'?
…

A vegetarian does not eat animal flesh.  They usually consume eggs and dairy, though.  Sometimes “vegetarians” eat fishes and chickens and somehow still consider themselves vegetarians.  I would go with my original definition.  “Pollo-vegetarian” or “Pisce-vegetarians” are not vegetarians.

Vegans abstain from the consumption of anything produced from the exploitation of animals.

As for the rest of you:  check the credibility of the Bible and then tell me why you base your decisions on it.  If you are still convinced that this book has all of the answers you need, think about this:  does “God” really want you to act so violently toward other creatures on Earth?

That is enough for me today, there are far too many misinformed things to reply to.  If anyone wishes to put a question to me, feel free to do so.

"The stench of ignorance hangs heavy in the air."

The cure for the stench is take a bath,  preferably with soap made with animal blubber  :P

oh and while your soaking, think about this:  Would God really give a person who didnt believe anything He says, all the answers for  His poor misinformed children?  ::)

In case you get stuck, the answer is NO  :P

"That is enough for me today, there are far too many misinformed things to reply to."

ROFL! not a wee bit FULL OF YOURSELF now are you  ::)

I eat Meat, Beef, ham, Chicken, even Fish AKA Sea food, Ooopsy and Pizza Yum Yum!!

God Gave us all these to eat and enjoy!

…
Originally posted by Shylynne:  
The cure for the stench is take a bath,  preferably with soap made with animal blubber
…

No.

…
oh and while your soaking, think about this:  Would God really give a person who didnt believe anything He says, all the answers for  His poor misinformed children?
…

“God” gave me no “answers”.  I have conducted much research on this topic and found the best conclusion based on ratiocination of the current facts.  All on my own.  

How about a hypothetical situation?  Let’s say the discoverer of penicillin was an agnostic, or an atheist, or a Satanist, or a Muslim, or a Buddhist.  Would you not believe/use his/her findings, although science and medicine has proven him correct?

Remember, at one time “the church” (excuse my ignorance of historical Christian terms) thought the world was flat (and again excuse my ignorance as to how to format passages).  You will see evidence of this in the Bible itself:
Isaiah 11:12, 40:22 and 40:28, Ezekiel 7:2, Daniel 2:35 and 4:10, Matthew 4:8, Revelation 1:7 and 7:1.

This is only one fallacy among many.  My point is that not everything in the Bible is true.  Try examining the reality of the situation.  Let no preconceived notions cloud your judgment.

…
ROFL! not a wee bit FULL OF YOURSELF now are you
…

Not at all (though it certainly appeared so).  Just an explanation as to why I didn’t go through this entire thread.  People will pick on the lamest things to try to discredit an argument.

‘Ignorant’ and ‘misinformed’ should not be perceived as insults.  Rather, I am pointing out that the reality is much different from what many in this thread are touting.  

Please disprove me.  I would love to know that this reality is much more perfect than it seemingly is.

…
Originally posted by MsGuidedAngel:  
God Gave us all these to eat and enjoy!
…

I disagree.

There are people out there that can't eat plant fiber. Have you ever heard of Cronis? I think you better check back in the thread. It has benn proven that. Plants do feel pain.

Again, you need to check futher back in this thread.


Hello troll ;D

Now I see where you are coming from. You are not a real Christian. If you were a true Christian, you would know. The Bible, is the words of God. NOT the word of man.

When I came across those verses I did not come to the same conclusion as you. How do those verses support the earth being flat? You say that we have preconceived notions; I think you have preconceived notions...or whoever showed you those verses and gave you the interpretations of them.

To come out with the conclusion that the bible says the earth is flat from those verses, you would have to be going in the preconceived desire to prove the bible is wrong.

Please point out any other contradictions in the bible you see.

 ::)  Just one - Since you won't be using it, could I have your A-1 Steak Sauce? Pardon the pun, but the nonsense about not eating meat is a load of baloney, and you are the one distributing it. If you have any Biblical reference for your baloney, post it.

All we need to do is give thanks for what God has provided for us to eat.

Moderator

banana quote...


Isa 40:22 [It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Bronzesnake

I suppose I will end my side of this issue.  Apparently logic, reasoning and universal compassion are not tools I am allowed to use.

However, a few things:  

a)  Please, stop.  Plants can not feel pain.  Even if they could, a vegetarian diet would save many more plants from destruction (not to mention they are not sentient).  

b)  Bronzesnake -- two things -- first, a circle does not denote a sphere -- second, the Beatles rock  ;D .

Have fun, people.  I wish you all to be free from suffering.  

 I must disagree with you that plants can not feel pain...How can you know that? Please read "The Secret Life of Plants" and research the latest studies on the subject - then you might be able to make a better assessment.

 My friend, the Bible is accurate, and reliable - it is 100% true.
I am a logical, intelligent person ( if I do say so myself ) and I did not come to believe in the Bible lightly. I studied the Bible, as well as evolution and creation science for years. I studied other major religions also. I came to an educated conclusion that evolution could not, and did not occur - that all other religions have serious contradictions and fallacies - that the accounts in the Judeo/Christian Bible could be corroborated by science, archaeology and historical documentation - both secular and non-secular. That Jesus Christ was an historical person. That Jesus Christ was God in the flesh. That Jesus Christ performed the miracles which are attributed to Him in the Bible. That Jesus Christ was crucified and died on the cross, and was seen alive by many eye witnesses including over 500 people at one time.

 One of the most important things I came to understand was the reality of satan, and the awesome power and evil influence that he has over mankind. he is the reason so many otherwise logical, intelligent people such as yourself, can not come to see the Truth of the Bible, and instead choose to believe in explanations which on the outside, are far more unimaginable and unrealistic than any Bible account - evolution is a big one. There are also scores of other people who take parts of the Bible as truth, and disregard other parts. How can one discern Truth from lies if this is the case? This is how we legitimize and propagate our sins - if our lifestyles clash with Biblical doctrine we simply disregard that portion of the scriptures, and that makes us free to continue making Godless choices. How could God chastise or judge anyone for any sin if He wasn't powerful, or smart enough to get His book 100% correct and see to it that it remained that way until the end? Imagine if our laws were that ambiguous? "oh sorry judge, I though it was legal to smoke crack - other laws were written down wrong, so I assumed this one was also" Think about it my friend...God has warned us, He has given us a perfect manual. If we choose to disregard it then we have only ourselves to blame for whatever consequences we must face in the end.

 I do agree with you on one thing...The Beatles do rock!!

Take care...

Bronzesnake.

I see you didn't read back in the thread, oh well.

Yes plants do feel pain.

Here is the link (http://www.department13designs.com/vegan.html)

Scientists Prove Plants Feel Pain, Vegans Face Starvation

DALLAS--Research scientists at Baylor Medical Center have proven that plants, including vegetables, feel pain when subjected to trauma such as being yanked out of the ground, peeled, cooked, and eaten. "Veggies and plants initiate a massive hormone and chemical barrage internally when they suffer any kind of injury," says professor Barry Lindzer. "This response is akin to the nerve response and endorphin release when an animal is injured. We cannot ignore the similarities." When Tarnish asked professor Lindzer and his research team what they thought this finding might mean, they responded unanimously, "Nobel prize, baby!"

Other agencies, namely People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals and the sum total of the world's hard-core vegetarians (known as vegans) registered formal complaints against the research. Their team of lawyers has already submitted a motion to have the results of the research destroyed or sealed. Others fear the damage has already been done. A spokesman for PETA said, "This is bad for us. Most of our members haven't eaten anything since hearing about the results. Our lawyers are looking into suing Mother Earth for false advertising, but concede that the suit will probably be inconclusive. In the meantime we'll be surviving on vitamin supplements and water."

In an ironic related story, a dozen PETA protesters picketing the Hungry Carnivore Steak House in New York City were allegedly assaulted by three patrons of the restaurant. Eyewitnesses say that the picketers were making their typical nuisance display of scorn and righteous indignation over the willful consumption of "the flesh of murdered animals" outside the Hungry Carnivore when two unidentified men and a woman stepped out of the establishment and sprayed the picketers with several gallons of what appeared to be blood. Victims and bystanders alike were surprised to discover that the liquid was actually V-8 juice. The truly shocking result of the alleged attack was the reaction of the picketers. All of the PETA protesters were wracked with convulsions and suffered hours of dry heaves while many of the bystanders merely laughed. This reaction within vegetarianism's great bastion of faith has many true believers reconsidering their dietary requirements. Others are quietly making funeral arrangements and the Environmental Protection Agency is considering declaring vegans an endangered species.

Resting in the Lord's arms.
Bob

Eat what ever .But everything has bad stuff they put in it .But the bible does say ?your weaker if you do not eat meat ?But I think ?What ever makes you happy .As I believe we can eat pretty much anything .because I believe ?HE KEEPS ME .

Right On Gary,

"Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or what so ever ye do, do all to the glory of God. " (I Cor 10:31).


We will be having a LARGE Ham in 11 Days, Merry Christmas :)

 Ham!!!

 What about Turkey Lurkey Loo???

 (http://www.geocities.com/mewsnewspatchell/turkey1.gif)

 Bronzesnake

From the NASB:

Rom 14:1 Now accept  the one who is weak  in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.
Rom 14:2 One  person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.
Rom 14:3 The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.
Rom 14:4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
And:
Rom 14:13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this--not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do  not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died.
Rom 14:16 Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil;
Rom 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
Rom 14:18 For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.
Rom 14:19 So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another.
Rom 14:20 Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense.
Rom 14:21 It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles.
Rom 14:22 The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
Rom 14:23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.