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I'm a 15 year old guy who goes to church and worships god, but beside that i always feel like what ever i do is useless and a waste of time becuase its not like we ever look back at all the memories when were in heaven so its like why do good in school cause where your dead and in heaven its not like any of that is still there...........idk, do any of you know what i kind of mean, like when were in heaven its not like we will remember the time at the movies with friends or anything....I'm reading a book and the more i think about it, its like why even read it, when i'm gone it wont matter what i did when i was alive. :-\

Hi and welcome!  :)
Though I follow your reasoning, and I don't disagree with all of it; I don't completely agree, either!  ;)
Even if you won't remember the time spent with friends at the movies (or wherever), your friends are aware of YOU. So how you are should reflect Christ - wherever you are. If your friends are saved, then time spent together should be edifying to each other and an example for others. If they're not saved, then you're planting seeds.

And the more you learn the more you will understand people and how they think, etc. which again should help you present Christ to them.

Think of it as your very own mission field. Wherever you go, you are representing Christ... including school.  ;)

Jesus was raised as a carpenter's son. Was there any real 'point' to Him learning that trade? Or attending a wedding? Or eating with sinners?  :)

There's one thing that matters both on earth and heaven...what you did for Jesus.

Instead of looking at all of life from your perspective, try to see it from Jesus' perspective or a heavenly perspective. Jesus expects us to be the best we can in everything we do. Even though they may seem like mundane and unimportant at the time, they could be times that he is trying to use you to reach a lost family member or friend. Once you are saved (and I'm assuming you are) Jesus expects you to go to work, either as a sower or a harvester, showing His love to a lost world, telling others about Him.

As far as life's memories are concerned, those are things that you would not have had if God had decided not to create you. Sure He wants us to enjoy things and have great experiences with friends but His ultimate purpose for us on this earth is His Glory and pleasure, which we will be rewarded for when we find ourselves in heaven.

In Christ Alone,

Stephen

Thanks for everyone's help with all my questions.....Its kind of hard when your 15 so thanks for all the answers and giving me more knowledge about the lord...God bless :D

Hi, I'm new here.

How about this. You all are wasting your lives for something that may not even exist. No, I am not "saved" and I don't intend to ever consider myself "saved" again. I'd rather not pull off of other's ideas and not grow in any way at all. Trust me, it's a waste of time.

Farrer

Oh yes, and please don't discriminate me because I'm speaking blasphemy or whatever. I just want to have a civil conversation/debate with you guys. If that's okay. Please make sure there is mutual respect.

Hello Farrer,

I see this is your first post, so WELCOME!!

Jesus is quite real, you just don't know him. I've known Jesus for over 50 years. Jesus loves my entire family, and we love Him. Jesus is just as real as you are. Would you like to meet Jesus?

Tom

Okay if you want to witness to me, don't scare me all right?  :P Sorry that was just a little weird. Um, well, I've been a Christian before, a strong one. But then...I drifted away from religion and I found that I felt...better.

farrer,

It is impossible to say that you were a strong Christian once and later say that you don't know Jesus. You never knew or met Jesus. It is a life changing experience you will never forget. Short of falling into a coma or loosing your mind, you either know Jesus or you don't. Many people go through the motions of going to church and other things without ever receiving Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour. HE lives in the hearts of those who have accepted HIM. The question about whether he exists or not is answered forever when HE lives in and fills your heart.

Once you have experienced the love of Jesus, HE IS A LIVING REALITY.

Love In Jesus,
Tom

All right, Tom, let's think about this first. I don't beleive in the philosophy behind Christianity anymore, so obviously I can agree with you that I never "knew" Jesus. If he doesn't exist, I certainly didn't know him.

HOWEVER you probably define a Christian by a person who surrendurs his/her life to Christ, receives forgiveness from his/her sins, and believes that He died for our sins. I did pray that prayer quite meaningfully, and, by your standards, I was a Christian. Believe me, I was very enthusiastic about it and I certainly thought i know Jesus.

Therefore, once again by your standards, I did know him.

Bear in mind, I do beleive in a God or a higher power, no one in their right mind can deny that; I just don't see how that makes Christianity true. I suppose I'm a deist. I havn't really labeled myself.

The reason I signed on to these forums was because I wanted to see what other Christians would say to this, and, I don't know, possibly convince me to go back to it... I won't deny that I do sort of miss that feeling that I belonged somewhere. But it seems that no matter what other Christians say, it always seems to further turn me off to the whole idea; I'm perfectly content where I am right now. I don't like that Christianity forces people into submission, one of the first steps in brainwashing, and how it makes people separate themselves from others, thinking they are better off. Despite the mission work, it's so self-centered.

Heck, I might be like C.S. Lewis and come back to it in a decade or so, haha.

~Farrer

Now we all REALLY wish we had those replies to alice.  :-\

Quick question.....

Hypothetically, if you had died back when you thought you believed, and God had asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would you answer have been to Him?

Grace and Peace!

Farrer,

Here's a start for you.

How To Be Saved:
http://www.sirinet.net/~blkidps/besaved.html (http://www.sirinet.net/~blkidps/besaved.html)

This really isn't a matter for sport, fun, or play acting.

Love in Christ,
Tom

Tom,
What a wonderful invitation.

ollie

Hi,
Welcome.
What we do on earth in this life is not for the purpose of building a memory bank to take to heaven. Heaven offers more than we could ever imagine here in and on the physical earth. We will not need or want any of our earthly memories or happenings.
However we are to lay up treasure for ourselves in heaven which I would say are our good works of God we do here on earth in this life that will be a measure of our reward from Jesus Christ. These works donot get us to heaven, faith does that, but Godly works will give a reward accordingly.


Yes, I know what you mean because I still think as a natural man with all the shortcomings and emotions.
 You will not care about that book or a memory of it, or a movie of men origins. There will be no pain or suffering so one will not remember friends because then we would be pained by who made it and who did not. All of this is known, felt, and judged by our five physical senses. We will not have these senses in heaven as they will not be becessary for being.

ollie

"How about this. You all are wasting your lives for something that may not even exist"

"may"??

It would seem that that is a key word in your statement. Like you are just unsure and perhaps God's word has not been presented to you with all its calling power to prick your heart and bring you to faith in Jesus Christ and to accept His gift from God that will free you from the bondage of your unsureness.

Wekcome to the forum,
ollie

Hi Farrer,
Felt better in what way?  

What matters is that you are of great worth to God as His arms and legs of love in the body of Christ. The Bible says that we are created for good works - to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick, and give shelter to even the stranger. That's a lot of responsibility, but we do not have to do it alone. The Lord is our head and is always with us.

EPHESIANS 2:10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

HEBREWS 10:24 And let us consider one another how to stimulate and provoke one another to love an, GOOD DEEDS and noble activities. 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

MATT. 25:31-45 When the Son of Man comes in his glory....He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.....Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil & his angels. For I was hungry & YOU gave ME nothing to eat, I was thirsty & YOU gave ME nothing to drink, I was a stranger & YOU did not invite ME in, I needed clothes and YOU did not clothe ME, I was sick and in prison, and YOU did not look after ME.". "Whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

My darling Christians (haha, I thought that sounded funny),

All right, I don't think I can stress enough that I HAVE BEEN A CHRISTIAN BEFORE. I promise I was. I was crazy about it. I think one of you asked me what I would say if God asked me why I thought I should have been let into heaven. I probably would have said that I didn't deserve it at all but I trusted in his promise of salvation that Christ had taken away my sins by sacrificing himself. Remember guys, you have to have faith to get into heaven, not just good works. Hahaha, you should know that. I also know the process of how to get "saved", so just don't bother telling me.

Now, I am agonostic, so I will conceed to the possibility that God exists. I, probably surprising to you, am not afraid at all of my uncertainty. I don't ever want to be so brainwashed again as I once was. And, just so you guys know, I gave it up after a particularly traumatizing time in my life previously this year. No, I was not angry at God for letting it happen to me or something stupid like that, but the certain event mentioned above was the apparent cause of my apathetic disbelief in everything, including God and love, I had once held dear to me.

~Farrer

Farrer,
I don't think fanatical extremes of anything are healthy and I don't believe that just because we're believers that we have to give up questioning and seeking.  You can only be brainwashed if you choose to quit looking for the answers.

You haven't said how you "feel better" though.  

I feel better?

Oh yeah. haha. Well the truth is that I worded that wrong. A better way of putting it is that I feel more free to do things and less guilty when I, for instance, use the Lord's name in vain or consider the possibility of another religion. Also the feeling of not being responsible for the death of Christ isn't as encumbering.

Melody, you've been the first person to bring up a good point. I remember that I did question and seek when I was a Christian. But, again, this issue of being brainwashed is all a matter of perspective.

Furthermore, when you question your faith and seek answers you have already premeditated the outcome of your seeking: Christianity is true. The only way to possibly seek answers from an objective point of view is to BE objective. Obviously, all of you have a bias, which is Christianity. Let me ask a question to whomever feels like answering. Would you still seek answers when you completely surrender to the mere possibility that it will prove you wrong?

Melody, I know my extreme apathy is not healthy, but this knowledge does not lead me any nearer to belief in Christianity.

~Farrer

The reason I asked (and your answer was what I was expecting  :)) is because my mom said the same thing.  From repeated conversations, it became pretty apparent that she felt better after renouncing Christianity because as a Christian she always felt as if she fell short of the mark.  She felt weighed down by a guilt she had no need to bear.  She obviously truly never believed that our Lord died for those very sins because He knew we could never be that perfect.  It doesn't mean you don't try for that perfection since, as believers, we want to walk the walk, but it means that we shouldn't feel guilty when we fall short of the mark.

Once she stopped trying, she felt better...or so she thinks.  She's much more cynical, unforgiving and hard hearted and it's obvious that she's missing that inner peace.  I pray every day that she'll rediscover her connection to God.

I'm sorry you think we're deluding ourselves, but I know for a fact that the joy and peace I feel inside does not originate within me.  It took me decades of prideful behavior to come to this realization.  

Farrer, may I ask if your involvement with Christianity included active participation in a church?

farrer,

It's exceedingly obvious that you never knew Jesus. When you speak about the Holy Spirit, all reverence will be used here. It sounds like things were really only a game or a fad for you. In fact, it sounds like you are playing a game now.

It also sounds like you would be happy if we had doubts also. Well, I've been a Christian for over 50 years, and I don't have any doubts. I have the reality of Jesus in my heart, and I always will. There is nothing funny about the reality of Jesus. I would doubt your existence, but not HIS. There are lots of people who go to church and don't know Jesus. There are other people who like to mock the things of God, and it sounds like you are heading in that direction.

Tom

I hope this doesn't come across as patronizing, but Farrer, if you had a true faith, you would have turned to God...not away from...to help you through the awful experience.  It sounds like you "believed" you had true faith but actually didn't.  There are many people out there who believe that just because they say they believe Jesus is their Savior and follow what they think the rules are (some follow church rules, other follow Bible rules), then everything should be right and tight with the world and nothing bad will ever happen to them.  The first time something bad does happen, they blame it on God and decide that since He's such a terrible God, they don't need Him.  That's not faith.

Faith is believing, even when things go horribly wrong, that God has a plan and even the horrible experience will work for God's glory.

Blaming God is too easy.

*twitches in frustration* :P

Melody, I wasn't angry at God.

All right I'll just tell you guys about the incident. What happened was that I was in an ongoing abusive relationship with my boyfriend and my parents were physically and emotionally abusive as well. My faith was the only thing that kept me going. One rainy day in April, I got in a fight with my mom and she kicked me out. I didnt have shoes on and I had nowhere to go except this church near my house. I hid there for the rest of the day, not planning on ever going home again. I couldn't stop crying, and I prayed that God would help me through this and tell me what to do because I felt so lost. I opened a Bible and read the first verse that I saw. I don't remember what book it was but it said "Get up, and get something to eat. Do not despair." So I somehow found the kitchen and got something to eat, feeling so much happier because I believed that God had spoken to me. Then the police found me there. My boyfriend had called the cops on my parents (I had called him earlier at the church and told him what happened) and they were almost arrested.

I did turn to God, Melody.

My loss of faith was gradual and resulted from recovery from this incident and my relationship with my boyfriend. The cause was apathy. I don't know why else I turned away. Now, I resent God, and I don't know the reason for that either. That may be why I signed on to these forums (I don't even know why I did THAT). It might be a cry for help...so...help please. Disbelief in everything is tragic and, honestly, I hate it more than I like it.

~Farrer