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Theology => Apologetics => Topic started by: Ambassador4Christ on April 12, 2003, 08:47:27 PM



Title: 'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 12, 2003, 08:47:27 PM
Ephesians 2:8-10. 'For by grace you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works least anyone should boast'.

Romans.5:8. 'God demonstrated His own love to us in this way, while we were still sinners Christ died for us.
Romans.10:9. That if you will confess with your mouth Jesus Christ as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved. Salvation is accepting by faith that Jesus Christ died for you-your sin-and took the full penalty and judgement for it, so that through His sacrifice, God can declare you righteous, and make you a child of God and a member of the Body of Christ. This is only the beginning of Gods work.

Romans 8:31&32. 'If God be for us who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him freely give us all things.'

Philippians.2:13. 'For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for his good pleasure.' What a lot of Christians forget is that it is God who saved us. It is God who keeps us and it is God who is working in us to make us more like Christ. We must also distinguish between how God sees us IN CHRIST, perfect and righteous [our standing before God] and our daily walk in all it's failings and shortcomings. [our state before God ] The first is perfect and never fails for it is based on God and His promises. The last rises and falls according to our obedience to His Word and whether we live for Christ and walk in the Spirit.

Salvation from the penalty of sin and life in Christ is a present possession secured for eternity.


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: nChrist on April 13, 2003, 07:32:31 AM
Oklahoma Howdy to Ambassador4Christ,

Amen! Thank you Brother.


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: TigerLily on April 13, 2003, 07:36:20 AM
Isnt it wonderful!!
amen to that A4C :)
TL


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 13, 2003, 09:31:41 AM
Oklahoma Howdy to Ambassador4Christ,

Amen! Thank you Brother.

And a "BIG" Howdy to you Brother, and thank you Bro


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 13, 2003, 09:32:48 AM
Isnt it wonderful!!
amen to that A4C :)
TL

Yes it is Sister  ;D


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: IrishAngel on April 14, 2003, 10:00:28 AM
ambassador I was starting to think the only word you knew was DITTO  ;D



seriously...Is this a "once saved always saved thread?"  ...plueeeeese  tell its not....cause then i`ll have to post something you cant say ditto too, n  I really like those ditto`s  lol ;)

 


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: asaph on April 14, 2003, 01:12:39 PM
Hello A4C,
I think what you said is the very heart of Calvinism. Especially this word:
"Salvation from the penalty of sin and life in Christ is a present possession secured for eternity."
I am concerned with this teaching that it has become refined like sugar from cane. Cane is healthy and good and so is molasses, but I am not so sure about sugar.
Salvation from the penalty of sin is true but it is so refined that it has become like sugar (a poison).
It is true that we are free from the penalty of sin, but on what basis?
   "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."
"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."
I believe that, on the basis of removal of our sins in this life, we are free from the penalty of sin for:
  "the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
   For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
   But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
   For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
   Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
   In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
   Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
   Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
   Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
   By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
   And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
   But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;"  Hebrews 10

Do you see the problem of being saved from the penalty of sin without being saved from the sin itself? That is too refined and is not healthy. For it makes one believe that we still have sin in our lives just like the OT saints. Their sacrifices could never take away sins and they were not made perfect and they were still conscience of their sins. But whom the Son sets free is free indeed. That's why Jesus says, "go your way and sin no more." This is truly good news!
You may ask, have I ever sinned since I became a believer? The answer is yes. But that is the wrong question. The question is do I have any unconfessed and unrepented of sin in my life? The answer is no. I am cleansed from all unrighteousness. This is good news for the ones in bondage who think they have to give in to temptation because they can't help themselves. My friend, you are free to go your way and sin no more!
This is practical relationship with Jesus. This is truth. This is freedom!

asaph





Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 19, 2003, 03:33:06 PM
Hebrews 12:2. Says. 'Looking unto Jesus the originator and perfecter of our faith--and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.' Jesus said on the cross . ' It is finished.' John.19:30. When we accept the salvation that God freely offers us, we are accepting a work that God has been completely satisfied with. Gods holy righteous demands have been fully met by Christ's one offering for sin. Hebrews 10:14 says ' For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are sanctified.
Because of this we will never be condemned for any sin. Romans 8:1-4. Think about it, if we could be accounted for any short coming or failure then Christ's sacrifice is worthless, we were not perfected and God has failed. So why can we be sure of our eternal security. Because God is satisfied, Christ is seated and we are sanctified.



Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 19, 2003, 03:39:06 PM
Ephesians 1:13,14. 'Having believed you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we go to be with the Lord.'

SEALING signifies that a transaction is finished . Christ offered once. Hebrews 9:28.

SEALING signifies ownership. In 1 Corinthians.6:20. We read that a believers body is the temple of the Holy Spirit- and you are not your own because you were purchased at such great cost, the blood of Jesus Christ.

SEALING signifies SECURITY. The believer is said to be sealed until the say of Christ's return. Ephesians.4:30.

Think! God has sealed and secured us for the duration of our life on earth. Since God is the only one who can break this seal who are we to doubt our eternal security.

 SAVED--- SEALED--- SECURED .



Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 20, 2003, 08:35:26 AM
Colossians.1:13. Says. 'God has delivered us from the power of darkness and translated us into the kingdom of His Son'. This verse shows us that a Christian has not only been delivered from the power of Satan but has changed allegiance from Satan's kingdom to the spiritual kingdom of Jesus Christ. In this new realm we become slaves of righteousness, where beforehand we were slaves to the sinful nature inherited from Adam. Romans.5:12. Part of all this we become HEIRS of God and joint heirs with Christ . Romans.8:17.

Ephesians1:3. We became heirs through Christ's death and the blessings and promises that we inherit are heavenly and eternal. Even though we are living on earth God sees us as heavenly citizens. Philippians.3:20. Ephesians.2:6. He leaves us here as His AMBASSADORS. 2Corinthians.5:20. An ambassador's allegiance is to his home country, so the Christian is now of a heavenly calling and represents their heavenly Father on this earth as a witness and servant to glorify Christ. As this spiritual translation was of God's doing it is He alone who could reverse our heavenly position. But His Word says 'The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable' Romans 11:29.


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 20, 2003, 11:54:01 AM
Becoming a Christian means you have been spiritually born anew. Eph.2:1.
Beforehand you were spiritually dead to God but now the believer in Christ is----

[a] Born of God. John 3:3. 1John 5:1-5. And becomes a --

Child of God. 1 John.3:2. This is because the believer has become a--

[c] New Creation. 11 Corinthians.5:17. "Therefore if anyone is IN CHRIST he is a new creation, old things have passed away behold all things have become new."

The new life of a Christian is not turning over a new leaf and trying harder but is the new life of Christ by the Holy Spirit within the believers quickened spirit. Eph.2:5.
The divine nature of God becomes one with our spirit.2Peter.1:4.

Read also . Eph.2:4-6. Gal.2:20. John.17:20-21.

Just as a person cannot be unborn physically because they had nothing to do with it, so it is with spiritual birth, for it is all the Lords work.


Title: Four things are unchangable.
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 21, 2003, 02:51:26 PM
Four things are unchangable.

GOD HIMSELF. Malachi. 3:6

GOD'S COUNSELS. Hebrews. 6:17,18.

GOD'S WORD Numbers. 23:19.

GOD'S PROMISES Romans.11:29.

It is a simple matter of accepting that God's Word and His promises are true and that God cannot lie or go back on His Word. Numbers.23:19. Says. "God is not a man that He should lie, nor a son of man that He should repent, has He said it and shall He not do it, or has He not spoken and shall He not make it good."

When the Lord says in John 3:16. That we should not perish but have everlasting life and in 5:24, that we will never be judged for sin and have passed from death to life, why not believe Him. We read in Romans.8:35-39. Nothing can separate us from the love of God.


Title: "For by one Spirit we are united into one body."
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 21, 2003, 05:13:58 PM
"For by one Spirit we are united into one body." 1.Corinthians. 12:13.

Not only are we indwelt by the Holy Spirit individually but we are united collectively into one body, the Body of Christ, which is the church of the living God. This church is not divided by walls or creeds but is a living organism consisting of every believer since the Apostle Paul's time. Ephesians.5:30,32. 2:16. 3:6. 1 Timothy 1:15,16.

Christians can take up membership in a local church, but it is only the Holy Spirit that makes believers members of the Body of Christ. They are also seen as members of His household. Eph. 2:19-22.

As each person accepts Christ by faith they are place as a particular part of the body.

1 Corinthians.12:14-27. Ephesians.4:16. This church which was a mystery hidden in God since the foundation of the world, was only revealed from the Lord Jesus in glory to the Apostle Paul.



Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Sean on April 21, 2003, 06:40:14 PM
For one that is truely saved, their sins are covered by Jesus.  But one can claim to be saved and not truely be saved.

Luke 8:
11   "Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God.
12   "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.
13   "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.
14   "The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity.
15   "But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.

It is possible to believe you are saved, but fall away.  True faith will yeild good works:

James 2:
Faith and Works
14   What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
15   If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,
16   and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
17   Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
18   But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
19   You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
20   But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
21   Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22   You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
23   and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.
24   You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25   In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
26   For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

The point is that if you proclaim Jesus as savior and Lord, that he died for your sins, but you do not truely put your faith in him (a faith that produces good works) then you are not saved even though you may claim that you are.  (i.e. having a said faith instead of real faith)

I'm not saying you have to "work" your way to eternal life.  Just that the works you do are not based on your own will, but the will of the Father.  Sin is a part of our nature, and confessing our sins ensures our salvation.

Grace through faith only works if the faith is genuine.  If it is, then by grace alone you will be saved.


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 22, 2003, 02:41:44 PM
For one that is truely saved, their sins are covered by Jesus.  But one can claim to be saved and not truely be saved.

Sean, I agree with your above statement.
=========================================

The point is that if you proclaim Jesus as savior and Lord, that he died for your sins, but you do not truely put your faith in him (a faith that produces good works) then you are not saved even though you may claim that you are.  (i.e. having a said faith instead of real faith)

I'm not saying you have to "work" your way to eternal life.  Just that the works you do are not based on your own will, but the will of the Father.  Sin is a part of our nature, and confessing our sins ensures our salvation.

Grace through faith only works if the faith is genuine.  If it is, then by grace alone you will be saved.

Sean, to many twists and turns Bro. Christ died"FOR"our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3). Thats ALL sins, Past, Present and Future. I dont agree with you on some of your points, but thats OK  ;D


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 22, 2003, 02:46:51 PM
Ephesians1:4-6. 'Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world-having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself.'

This simply means that God being sovereign, all powerful and all knowing, brings to pass what His great foreknowledge already knew would happen. Therefore what He knew ,He chose beforehand to happen. So it is that effective exercise of the will of God by which things before determined by Him are brought to pass. Rom.8:29-39.

When God chooses He doesn't make mistakes for He not only chose you to be saved but to be conformed to the image of His Son. " For it is God who is at work in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. Philippians. 2:13. Isn't it wonderful to know that having trusted in Christ we are not left to our own resources.

God's salvation is a total package. 2 Corinthians.1:10. " Who delivered us from so great a death [spiritual separation from God ] and does deliver us [ from the present power of sin] in whom we trust that He will still deliver us. [from this present evil world .]

UPHELD -UNITED - CHOSEN



Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Sean on April 22, 2003, 04:33:09 PM
Sean, to many twists and turns Bro. Christ died"FOR"our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3). Thats ALL sins, Past, Present and Future. I dont agree with you on some of your points, but thats OK  ;D

Yes, that's ok.  So lets talk about it.  What part don't you agree with?  Are you saying that everyone is automatically saved?


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Sean on April 22, 2003, 05:05:30 PM
Matthew 6:
14   For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15   But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

Matthew 7:
1   "Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
2   "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
3   "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
4   "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye?
5   "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Not everyone that claims Jesus is Lord will be saved:

Matthew 7:
13   "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14   "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
---
19   "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20   "So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21   "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22   "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23   "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Here are those that performed miracles in Jesus name and call Jesus Lord and are still not saved.  Why?  Because they did not do the will of the Father.

Matthew 7:
24   "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25   "And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
26   "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
27   "The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell--and great was its fall."

Jesus doesn't say to hear him and believe and you automatically get saved, but those who hear his words and act on them will be saved.  But if you hear his words and continue to live in sin with the attitude that your sins are covered anyway, you will not be saved.

Matthew 13:
20   "The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;
21   yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away.
22   "And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
23   "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."



Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Early57 on April 22, 2003, 06:42:33 PM
I'm not some great teacher or very well taught in the scriptures but if I may I would like to ask a simple minded question of those who say that you can forfit your salvation.

First question:
If it is called eternal life and it is a free gift, and all Good gifts come from God the Father and we are given for an example the Family and we being evil know how to give good gifts to our child and in no way would a loving Father ever take a gift from His child even if the child is a little, or even a big hoodlum/sinner how can it still be called a free gift of eternal life if it only may last for a season on this side of eternity and then because the child did some things wrong and even hated the Father who's love is unconditional and is in no way based upon the feelings of the disobeident child, How can it be called eternal if it is actually tempoary life and the Father who knows all, gave this tempoary life to this child, and all the time made believe that it was eternal when in fact He allready knew that it was not eternal and it was tempoary life then eternal Death?

second question:
How can you lose eternal life?





Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Saved_4ever on April 23, 2003, 07:57:24 AM
Hey early I think you should have just stuck with the second question.   ;D  It says the same thing in a lot less words.


God bless,
Jason


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: nChrist on April 23, 2003, 10:49:02 AM
Oklahoma Howdy to Early57,

I enjoyed your post. I think you described the real beauty, love, and power of the Gospel of God's Grace. The gift is free, undeserved, and eternal, All by the Matchless Grace of God.


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 23, 2003, 12:51:16 PM
It is disheartening to see so many Christians today do not have assurance of salvation.

Living in fear that any day they could either fail enough, turn back to their old ways or somehow blaspheme the Holy Spirit, and thereby loose their salvation. Most churches are afraid to preach assurance for fear that their members would think it gave them a license to sin. This way of thinking makes a mockery of God's grace and the liberty to which Christ has set us free. Galations.5:13. Romans.6:1&2

One of the most frequent arguments is that, "I chose to become a Christian so I can choose to turn my back on God." First of all, God chose you, [ No 7 above] you simply responded to the love that He demonstrated. Secondly, whatever way you turn God's everlasting arms are always there and as your loving Father He is guarding caring, helping or chasening you through every sin or problem that this life can bring.

The only way to blaspheme against or deny the Holy Spirit is to reject Christ as Saviour and only an unbeliever is capable of this.

What sin was big enough that Christ's death on the cross could not take away? Obviously none! So there is none big enough now to separate us from His love.

You say, But I know someone that was a Christian and now they couldn't possibly be.

The Lord even said, "Some will say to me in that day, Lord ! Lord ! did I not do all these wonderful things in your name and He will say I never knew you." Notice the Lord did not say that He knew them once but not now. Who are we to judge if a person is or ever was born again. We can be sure about many Christians by their life and testimony but we must be aware that there are many good people professing to be Christians who do not confess Christ as Lord. We must also admit that we all still sin, so who are we to judge how much sin another may commit and by the grace of God still be a child of God.

There are many other Bible verses and excuses that some have problems with but if we keep them all in the light of the above seven points we will trust God and His Word and give no place for doubts and distrust.

John .5:24 . Truly truly I say unto you, He who hears my Word and believes on Him who sent Me HAS EVERLASTING LIFE and SHALL NOT come into judgement but HAS PASSED from death to life. WHAT A PROMISE ! LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR !



Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: nChrist on April 23, 2003, 05:35:41 PM
There are many other Bible verses and excuses that some have problems with but if we keep them all in the light of the above seven points we will trust God and His Word and give no place for doubts and distrust.

John .5:24 . Truly truly I say unto you, He who hears my Word and believes on Him who sent Me HAS EVERLASTING LIFE and SHALL NOT come into judgement but HAS PASSED from death to life. WHAT A PROMISE ! LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR !

Oklahoma Howdy to Ambassador4Christ,

It is fairly easy to become confused with certain portions of Scripture. Like you said, it is sad that some folks torture themselves by being in a continual state of confusion and doubt about their Salvation.

I think the majority of the confusion is caused by:

1. Failure to find out who the speaker is.
2. Failure to find out who the intended audience is.
3. Taking a few words out of context with the verse or the chapter.
4. Does the verse address the law (old covenant), or does it address Grace (new covenant)?
5. Does the verse address spiritual death, or does it address physical death?
6. Does the verse address loss of Salvation, loss of rewards for a child of God, or chastisement of a child of God?
7. THIS IS A BIG ONE - Does the verse address Jews or Gentiles?
8. THIS IS A BIG ONE - Does the verse address a time before or after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ on The Cross?
9. THIS IS A BIG ONE - Does the reader believe he or she lives under pure law ALONE (old covenant), under pure Grace ALONE (new covenant), or some type of mixture of LAW AND GRACE?

You already know what I believe. There is only ONE GOSPEL, THE GOSPEL OF GOD'S GRACE. One can end tremendous confusion by trying to understand GRACE, the reason for the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, and the PROMISE OF GOD for those who believe and accept Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour. Every child of God should have and can have 100% assurance they are SAVED FOR ETERNITY. GOD SAID IT, IT'S DONE!


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Sean on April 23, 2003, 09:21:40 PM
So you are basically saying that what Jesus said in Matthew is irrelevent and that Jesus didn't realize he was wasting his breath because the old covenent passed when Jesus was crucified.

So the Sermon on the Mount & the Beatitudes are irrelevent?  We shouldn't even worry about doing Gods' will since we will be saved anyway?  And all the passages I cited don't have merrit, but your opinion does?  Sorry but I believe Jesus' teachings are not irrelevent.  You can't pick and choose what part of the Bible you want to believe.  

No one can serve two masters.  Either you love the Lord or you love earthly sinful things.  If you follow the Lord and stumble along the way you will be forgiven.  If you follow the sinful world you cannot also follow the Lord, even if you think you are saved.  You cannot accept Christ as Lord and savior if you love worldly things.  That would be turning you back on Jesus and his free grace.  It's a choice we all have.


Titus 1:
15   To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled.
16   They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed.

1 John 1:
 5   This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
6   If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;
7   but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

8   If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9   If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10   If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

1 John 2:
1   My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
2   and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
3   By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4   The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5   but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected.  By this we know that we are in Him:
6   the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 24, 2003, 01:58:35 PM
Oklahoma Howdy to Early57,

I enjoyed your post. I think you described the real beauty, love, and power of the Gospel of God's Grace. The gift is free, undeserved, and eternal, All by the Matchless Grace of God.

DITTO  ;D


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 24, 2003, 02:01:31 PM
There are many other Bible verses and excuses that some have problems with but if we keep them all in the light of the above seven points we will trust God and His Word and give no place for doubts and distrust.

John .5:24 . Truly truly I say unto you, He who hears my Word and believes on Him who sent Me HAS EVERLASTING LIFE and SHALL NOT come into judgement but HAS PASSED from death to life. WHAT A PROMISE ! LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR !

Oklahoma Howdy to Ambassador4Christ,

It is fairly easy to become confused with certain portions of Scripture. Like you said, it is sad that some folks torture themselves by being in a continual state of confusion and doubt about their Salvation.

I think the majority of the confusion is caused by:

1. Failure to find out who the speaker is.
2. Failure to find out who the intended audience is.
3. Taking a few words out of context with the verse or the chapter.
4. Does the verse address the law (old covenant), or does it address Grace (new covenant)?
5. Does the verse address spiritual death, or does it address physical death?
6. Does the verse address loss of Salvation, loss of rewards for a child of God, or chastisement of a child of God?
7. THIS IS A BIG ONE - Does the verse address Jews or Gentiles?
8. THIS IS A BIG ONE - Does the verse address a time before or after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ on The Cross?
9. THIS IS A BIG ONE - Does the reader believe he or she lives under pure law ALONE (old covenant), under pure Grace ALONE (new covenant), or some type of mixture of LAW AND GRACE?

You already know what I believe. There is only ONE GOSPEL, THE GOSPEL OF GOD'S GRACE. One can end tremendous confusion by trying to understand GRACE, the reason for the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, and the PROMISE OF GOD for those who believe and accept Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour. Every child of God should have and can have 100% assurance they are SAVED FOR ETERNITY. GOD SAID IT, IT'S DONE!

Brother you get one "BIG" AAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN
+
DITTO  ;D


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Tawhano on April 24, 2003, 04:05:28 PM
Iíve asked this on another thread but was unable to get a reply I could understand. How does the following verses fit in with the idea that because we are saved by grace we can not fall away from that grace?

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Matthew 10
21   And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22   And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Hebrews 6
4   For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5   And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6   If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Sean on April 24, 2003, 05:46:01 PM
If you become saved and never develop spiritually in the will and word of God and fall away willfully and love the world instead of the Word of God then you also turn your back on the on who saves by grace.  This person never was saved to begin with, so there was no salvation to loose.  Grace is a free choice.  If we do not chose it, will will not get it.  

Turning your back on the Word of God is a sure way to not receive salvation in the first place, because this means you are turning your back on the Savior, Jesus Christ who is the Word of God.

God knows the beginning from the end & knows the heart.  God cannot be mocked.  

"There is only ONE GOSPEL, THE GOSPEL OF GOD'S GRACE. One can end tremendous confusion by trying to understand GRACE, the reason for the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, and the PROMISE OF GOD for those who believe and accept Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour. Every child of God should have and can have 100% assurance they are SAVED FOR ETERNITY. GOD SAID IT, IT'S DONE!"

I agree with this.  The point is simple, saying your saved & getting baptized does not save you anymore more than keeping the law.  What saves you is belief and acceptance of the Savior Jesus Christ.  There is no "easy grace" that saves everyone who merely calls to Jesus. it is belief and acceptance which are defined in the NT passages I have quoted.

Matthew 7:
21   "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22   "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23   "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Merely calling to the Lord Jesus is not enough.  Jesus was clearly talking to people who believed Jesus was the Christ and was not talking just to non-believing Jews.  This is apparent by the passage "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

You must believe and accept that Jesus is your savior and you will be saved forever!


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 07:37:43 PM
Words of God's Grace
From Romans: Verse By Verse
by William R. Newell

The Nature of Grace

Grace is God acting freely, according to His own nature as love, with no promises or obligations to fulfill and acting of course, righteously--in view of the cross.
Grace, therefore, is uncaused in the recipient; its cause lies wholly in the GIVER, in God.
Grace also is sovereign. Not having debts to pay, or fulfilled conditions on man's part to wait for, it can act to whom, and how it pleases. It can, and does, often, place the worst deservers in the highest favors.
Grace cannot act where there is either desert or ability; grace does not help--it is absolute, it does it all.
There being no cause in the creature why grace should be shown, the creature must be brought off from trying to give cause to God for His grace.
The discovery by the creature that he is truly the object of Divine grace, works the utmost humility; for the receiver of grace is brought to know his own absolute unworthiness, and his complete inability to attain worthiness, yet he finds himself blessed,--on another principle, outside of himself!
Therefore, flesh has no place in the plan of grace. This is the great reason why grace is hated by the proud natural mind of man. But this very reason, the true believer rejoices! For he knows that "in him, that is, in his flesh, is no good thing"; and yet he finds God glad to bless him, just as he is!

The Place of Man Under Grace

He has been accepted in Christ, who is his standing!
He is not "on probation".
As to his life past, it does not exist before God; he died at the cross, and Christ is his life.
Grace, once bestowed, is not withdrawn; for God knew all the human urgent needs before hand: His action was independent of them, not dependent upon them.
The failure of devotion does not cause the withdrawal of bestowed grace (as it would under law). For example: the man in 1Corinthians 5:1-5; and also those in 11:30-32, who did not "judge" themselves, and so were judged by the Lord, -- that they might not be condemned with the world!

The Proper Attitude of Man Under Grace


To believe, and to consent to be loved while unworthy, is the great secret.
To refuse to make "resolutions" and "vows", for that is to trust in the flesh.
To expect to be blessed, though realizing more and more the lack of worth.
To testify of God's goodness, at all times.
To be certain of God's future favor; yet to be ever more tender in conscience toward Him.
To rely on God's chastening hand as a mark of His kindness.
A man under grace, if like Paul, has no burdens regarding himself, but many about others.

Things Which Gracious Souls Discover

To "hope to be better" is to fail to see yourself in Christ only.
To be disappointed with yourself is to have believed in yourself.
To be discouraged is unbelief, --as to God's purpose and plan of blessing for you.
To be proud, is to be blind! For we have no standing before God, in ourselves.
The lack of divine blessing, therefore, comes from unbelief, and not from failure of devotion.
Real devotion to God arises, not from man's will to show it, but from the discovery that blessing has been received from God while we were yet unworthy and undevoted.
To preach devotion first, and blessing second, is to reverse God's order, and preach law, not grace. The Law made man's blessing depend on devotion; grace confers undeserved, unconditional blessing; our devotion may follow, but does not always do so, -- in proper measure.


Title: ALL BELIEVERS ARE POSITIONALLY NOW IN HEAVEN
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:03:00 PM
ALL BELIEVERS ARE POSITIONALLY NOW IN HEAVEN

"(God)...hath RAISED us up together, and made us sit together IN HEAVENLY PLACES in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:6).



Title: ALL BELIEVERS ARE MEMBERS OF THE BODY OF CHRIST
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:04:56 PM
ALL BELIEVERS ARE MEMBERS OF THE BODY OF CHRIST

"For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones" (Eph. 5:30).

"But now hath God set the members every one of them IN THE BODY, AS IT HATH PLEASED HIM.. .Now ye are the BODY OF CHRIST..." (I Cor.12:18,27).

Will Christ be in heaven missing a foot or a hand? How absurd!  A young girl was asked, "Aren't you afraid you might slip through the Lord's fingers?" "No Sir, I AM ONE OF HIS FINGERS," she replied.



Title: ALL BELIEVERS ARE COMPLETE IN HIM
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:06:25 PM
ALL BELIEVERS ARE COMPLETE IN HIM

"And ye are COMPLETE IN HIM, which is the head of all principality and power" (Col. 2:10).

If we could lose our salvation we would not be complete in Him.



Title: ALL BELIEVERS ARE ACCEPTED IN THE BELOVED
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:08:15 PM
ALL BELIEVERS ARE ACCEPTED IN THE BELOVED

Paul wrote that God "...hath made us accepted in the beloved" (Eph. 1:6).

"The sinner can not make himself acceptable to God. Our acceptance by God, therefore is not based upon our practice, but rather upon our position in Christ."


Title: ALL BELIEVERS ARE SAVED BY GRACE
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:09:48 PM
ALL BELIEVERS ARE SAVED BY GRACE

WITHOUT ANY MIXTURE OF WORKS

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES; it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8, 9).

"Now to him that worketh is the reward NOT RECKONED OF GRACE, but of debt" (Rom. 4:4).

"And if by grace, then is it NO MORE OF WORKS; otherwise grace is NO MORE GRACE" (Rom. 11:6).

GRACE AND WORKS CANNOT MIX FOR SALVATION. Note also: Rom. 3:24; II Tim. 1:9; Titus 3:5.



Title: ALL BELIEVERS ARE CONFIRMED BLAMELESS UNTO THE END
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:12:27 PM
ALL BELIEVERS ARE CONFIRMED BLAMELESS UNTO THE END

"Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be BLAMELESS in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ" (ICor.1:8).



Title: ALL BELIEVERS WILL APPEAR AT THE JUDGEMENT SEAT OF CHRIST
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:13:59 PM
ALL BELIEVERS WILL APPEAR AT THE JUDGEMENT SEAT OF CHRIST

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's WORK shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's WORK of what sort it is. If any man's WORK abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's WORK shall be BURNED, he shall suffer loss: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED: yet so as by fire"2 (I Cor. 3:11-15).



Title: ALL BELIEVERS ARE SEALED UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:18:12 PM
ALL BELIEVERS ARE SEALED UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION

"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are SEALED unto the day of REDEMPTION." (Eph. 4:30)

(The Bible did NOT say, "sealed unto the day of damnation; but REDEMPTION." Did you note the difference???)

Seal in scripture denotes OWNERSHIP. Therefore we are God's possession. Can God lose us? The Holy Spirit has promised to keep us. Will God break His promise? NO!! (Eph. 4:30).

Earnest means the Holy Spirit's promise with an obligation to fulfill. He will keep His promise.

"In whom (Jesus Christ) also we have obtained an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL: That we should be to the praise of his glory who first trusted in Christ: In whom ye also trusted after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were SEALED with that Holy Spirit of PROMISE, which is the EARNEST of our inheritance UNTIL THE REDEMPTION OF THE PURCHASED POSSESSION, unto the praise of his glory" (Eph. 1:11 -14).



Title: ALL BELIEVERS ARE PRESERVED UNTO THE HEAVENLY KINGDOM
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:21:01 PM
ALL BELIEVERS ARE PRESERVED UNTO THE HEAVENLY KINGDOM

"And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and WILL PRESERVE ME unto his heavenly kingdom..." (II Tim. 4:18).



Title: ALL BELIEVERS ARE SECURE IN THE LOVE OF GOD WHICH IS IN CHRIST
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:23:16 PM
ALL BELIEVERS ARE SECURE IN THE LOVE OF GOD WHICH IS IN CHRIST

"For I am PERSUADED, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD"4 (Rom. 8:38, 39).



Title: THE BELIEVER EXPERIENCES ONLY ONE SPIRITUAL BAPTISM
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:25:18 PM
THE BELIEVER EXPERIENCES ONLY ONE SPIRITUAL BAPTISM

"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in ONE HOPE of your calling; one Lord, one faith, ONE BAPTISM" (Eph. 4:4,5).

If a person could lose his salvation and get saved again, that would make TWO baptisms, not just one. The Bible does not talk about a second, third or fourth baptism in dealing with salvation. It says that there is only ONE.

"For by one Spirit are we ALL baptized into ONE body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into ONE SPIRIT" (I Cor. 12:13).



Title: ALL BELIEVERS ARE SAVED BY HIS LIFE, ...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:27:07 PM
ALL BELIEVERS ARE SAVED BY HIS LIFE,

NOT BY A GOOD LIFE OF THEIR OWN

"For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be SAVED BY HIS LIFE" (Rom. 5:10).



Title: THE BELIEVER IS JUSTIFIED BY CHRIST'S RIGHTEOUSNESS ...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:28:52 PM
THE BELIEVER IS JUSTIFIED BY CHRIST'S RIGHTEOUSNESS AND NOT BY HIS OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS

Righteousness is given as a free gift and not something that we earn.

"...Even so by the righteousness of one THE FREE GIFT came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous" (Rom. 5:18-19).



Title: THE BELIEVER IS CALLED, JUSTIFIED AND GLORIFIED
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:30:33 PM
THE BELIEVER IS CALLED, JUSTIFIED AND GLORIFIED

"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also CALLED: and whom he called, them he also JUSTIFIED: and whom he justified, them he also GLORIFIED" (Rom. 8:30).



Title: THE BELIEVER IS PREDESTINATED TO BE LIKE CHRIST
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:31:51 PM
THE BELIEVER IS PREDESTINATED TO BE LIKE CHRIST

Predestination means to appoint or ordain beforehand by an UNCHANGEABLE PURPOSE.

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate TO BE CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON..." (Rom. 8:29).



Title: THE BELIEVERS BODY MAY BE DESTROYED, ...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:33:23 PM
THE BELIEVERS BODY MAY BE DESTROYED,

BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED

"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you...I have judged already: to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, THAT THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED IN THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS" (I Cor. 5:1-5).



Title: THE BELIEVER MAY HAVE CONFIDENCE
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:36:08 PM
THE BELIEVER MAY HAVE CONFIDENCE

"Being CONFIDENT of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it UNTIL THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST" (Phil. 1:6).

A Christian once remarked: "Before I learned the truth of my eternal security, I held on to Christ with one hand and tried to serve Him with the other; but when I realized that both Christ's arms were around me, and I could never be lost, it left both my hands free to serve Him!"

"During the construction of the Golden Gate bridge, it was observed that many of the workmen, fearing for their safety if they fell, were reluctant to perform their work effectively. A net was constructed under the whole span, so that any person falling from the bridge would be caught in it and saved. From that time on, the work went forward with increased speed and efficiency. Once the men knew they were secure, they worked with confidence. To constantly have the fear of being eternally lost is not conducive to confident, loving, and effective service. It is not fear, but love, that should be the motive for the Christian's serving."

"For God hath NOT given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind" (II Tim. 1:7).


Title: THE BELIEVER HAS A SECOND BIRTH, NOT A THIRD OR FOURTH
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:38:04 PM
THE BELIEVER HAS A SECOND BIRTH, NOT A THIRD OR FOURTH

"Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again" (John 3:7). Jesus did NOT say, "Ye must be born again and again and again." "Like begets like. An eternal God begets eternal children." Can a person become unborn once he has been born? NO!!!



Title: THE BELIEVER CAN KNOW THAT HE HAS ETERNAL LIFE
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:39:22 PM
THE BELIEVER CAN KNOW THAT HE HAS ETERNAL LIFE

"These things have I written unto you that believe...that ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life" (I John 5:13).



Title: THE BELIEVERS INHERITANCE IS RESERVED
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:41:01 PM
THE BELIEVERS INHERITANCE IS RESERVED

"To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that FADETH NOT AWAY, RESERVED IN HEAVEN FOR YOU" (I Pet. 1:4).



Title: THE BELIEVER IS KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:47:39 PM
THE BELIEVER IS KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD

"Who are KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD through faith UNTO SALVATION.. ." (I Pet. 1:5).



Title: THE BELIEVER IS BORN OF INCORRUPTIBLE SEED
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:49:03 PM
THE BELIEVER IS BORN OF INCORRUPTIBLE SEED

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of INCORRUPTIBLE, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever" (I Pet. 1:23).  If a person could lose his salvation then the seed would be corrupted. The Bible says, however that the seed is incorruptible.



Title: THE BELIEVER RECEIVES SALVATION AS A GIFT FROM GOD
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:50:49 PM
THE BELIEVER RECEIVES SALVATION AS A GIFT FROM GOD

"For the wages of sin is death; but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:23).  Do we receive a gift and then try to work for it to keep it?



Title: THE BELIEVER WILL BE A PART OF THE ETERNAL HOUSEHOLD OF GOD
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:52:30 PM
THE BELIEVER WILL BE A PART OF THE ETERNAL HOUSEHOLD OF GOD

"For we KNOW that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we HAVE a building of God, an house not made with hands, ETERNAL IN THE HEAVENS" (II Cor. 5:1).

If a Christian dies, he KNOWS that he will be a part of the eternal household of God.



Title: THE BELIEVER HAS EVERLASTING CONSOLATION
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:54:09 PM
THE BELIEVER HAS EVERLASTING CONSOLATION

"Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us EVERLASTING CONSOLATION and good hope through grace" (II Thes. 2:16).

How could we have everlasting consolation if we could lose our salvation?



Title: SOME REASONS WHY PEOPLE BELIEVE THEY CAN LOSE THEIR SALVATION
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:55:58 PM
SOME REASONS WHY PEOPLE BELIEVE

THEY CAN LOSE THEIR SALVATION

Their church teaches it (traditions of men). We are to go by the Word of God as our final authority and NOT by man's opinions. Verses taken OUT OF CONTEXT and misapplied. Vague or unclear passages are used. Using verses that belong and deal with a different time period than for the church age. (Example: Quoting Matt. 24:13: which deals with the tribulation period).  

Getting salvation and service mixed up for the Christian.  Salvation means Grace as a FREE GIFT WITHOUT WORKS (Eph. 2:8, 9).  Service deals with rewards, i.e. works; (I Cor. 3:11-15).



Title: 'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 25, 2003, 10:58:24 PM
Problems arise when a person does not understand the Biblical doctrine of the two natures in the Believer, the difference between STANDING and STATE.

Passages in MATTHEW, ACTS, HEBREWS, and JAMES are the four books that people misquote the most to prove that a person can lose his salvation.


Grace & Peace  ;D
 



Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: nChrist on April 26, 2003, 12:53:07 AM
Oklahoma Howdy to Ambassador4Christ,

AMEN!!!! Thank you brother for a host of beautiful posts. I received a blessing from them. I made some notes to study many of the Scriptures you quoted. Complete assurance is refreshing and joyful. Thank you brother!

In Christ.


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Sean on April 26, 2003, 05:44:44 AM
You still haven't addressed my quotes, or shown how they are out of context.  All your quotes are true, for those who are truely saved in Christ are saved!

Again Matthew 5:

1   When Jesus saw the crowds, He went up on the mountain; and after He sat down, His disciples came to Him.
2   He opened His mouth and began to teach them, saying,
3   "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4   "Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5   "Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.
6   "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7   "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
8   "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9   "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
10   "Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11   "Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.
12   "Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

The sermon on the mount was not about old covenant law, if it was, it would have been a little late since the old covenant was passing away.  These are not "Laws" that guarentee salvation.  
Someone can't loose something they never had.  If you reject the words of Christ, you reject Christ.  Then who will save you?

Matthew 28:
18   And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19   "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20   teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Sounds like new covenant to me.  Jesus [after his resurrection] says those who baptize us are to teach us to abserve all that He commanded [past tense].  

We are not saved by what we do...those who are saved do the things commanded by Jesus because they are saved.  Not in a willful act of compliance for salvation but bacause they are filled with the Holy Spirit & the Holy spirit is acting inside them.  It is not for us to judge the heart of others as to weather or not they are saved, but it is more a warning to new christians who don't know anything in the bible and get baptized without knowing what they are doing and go back to their lives before baptism and think they will make it.  It takes a willfull act of giving yourself to Christ.  "You must be born again [from above]".  Just getting water dumped on your head doesn't save you any more than circumcision saved in the OC.  "Flesh gives birth to flesh & spirit gives birth to spirit".  The Holy Spirit must be accepted.

I didn't mean to junk up your thread.  I just wanted others to know that just going through the act of baptism doesn't "save" you.  You must know what you are getting into and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior (and know what that means).  It doesn't mean "Ok, now I can go back to sinning and not be judged for it".  This attitude is that of someone who has decived himself and not accepted Christ.

May the Lord bless all of you.


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Early57 on April 26, 2003, 06:39:28 AM
Quote
Sounds like new covenant to me.


Point number one.  Jesus was still speaking to Isreal, the Gentiles are not on the list at that moment.

He was commanding the Isrealites to tell the other Isrealites to obey all that he commanded.  Paul/Saul was not even converted yet and He was the one who would be sent to the Gentiles with a new and living way.  The Jews were and are still the Jews.  

Point number two, you have jumped from Matt 5 to Matt 28

That is a pretty big leap.


point number three, if you look deeper you will find that the gentiles are told to abstain from meats sacrificed to Idols and to abstain from Sexual immorality,  They don't even have to get their PeePee's wacked/Circumcised


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: sincereheart on April 26, 2003, 07:24:15 AM
ROFL @ Early!


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 26, 2003, 08:12:41 AM
Oklahoma Howdy to Ambassador4Christ,

AMEN!!!! Thank you brother for a host of beautiful posts. I received a blessing from them. I made some notes to study many of the Scriptures you quoted. Complete assurance is refreshing and joyful. Thank you brother!

In Christ.

Welcome Bro  ;D


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 26, 2003, 08:15:11 AM
Quote
Sounds like new covenant to me.


Point number one.  Jesus was still speaking to Isreal, the Gentiles are not on the list at that moment.

He was commanding the Isrealites to tell the other Isrealites to obey all that he commanded.  Paul/Saul was not even converted yet and He was the one who would be sent to the Gentiles with a new and living way.  The Jews were and are still the Jews.  

Point number two, you have jumped from Matt 5 to Matt 28

That is a pretty big leap.


point number three, if you look deeper you will find that the gentiles are told to abstain from meats sacrificed to Idols and to abstain from Sexual immorality,  They don't even have to get their PeePee's wacked/Circumcised

AAAAAAAAAAMEN & AMEN + DITTO  ;D


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: sincereheart on April 26, 2003, 08:22:32 AM
Quote
A Christian once remarked: "Before I learned the truth of my eternal security, I held on to Christ with one hand and tried to serve Him with the other; but when I realized that both Christ's arms were around me, and I could never be lost, it left both my hands free to serve Him!"

"During the construction of the Golden Gate bridge, it was observed that many of the workmen, fearing for their safety if they fell, were reluctant to perform their work effectively. A net was constructed under the whole span, so that any person falling from the bridge would be caught in it and saved. From that time on, the work went forward with increased speed and efficiency. Once the men knew they were secure, they worked with confidence. To constantly have the fear of being eternally lost is not conducive to confident, loving, and effective service. It is not fear, but love, that should be the motive for the Christian's serving."

BEAUTIFUL! A big "DITTO" and "AAAAMEN"!


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 26, 2003, 08:36:43 AM
Quote
A Christian once remarked: "Before I learned the truth of my eternal security, I held on to Christ with one hand and tried to serve Him with the other; but when I realized that both Christ's arms were around me, and I could never be lost, it left both my hands free to serve Him!"

"During the construction of the Golden Gate bridge, it was observed that many of the workmen, fearing for their safety if they fell, were reluctant to perform their work effectively. A net was constructed under the whole span, so that any person falling from the bridge would be caught in it and saved. From that time on, the work went forward with increased speed and efficiency. Once the men knew they were secure, they worked with confidence. To constantly have the fear of being eternally lost is not conducive to confident, loving, and effective service. It is not fear, but love, that should be the motive for the Christian's serving."

 ;D ;D ;D
It is not fear, but love, that should be the motive for the Christian's serving."


BEAUTIFUL! A big "DITTO" and "AAAAMEN"!


Title: 'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 26, 2003, 11:49:56 AM
Ephesians 2:8, 9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Before we can receive the gift of eternal life we must first acknowledge the fact that we are sinners.

Romans 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

Romans 3:23 says "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."

Sinners who are not saved will surely receive Gods punishment.

Romans 6:23 says "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

You must come to an understanding and belief that you need a Saviour.

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;".

Believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins, was buried and rose again on the third day.

I Corinthians 15:14 says "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

All that is required of us is to believe.

Romans 3:22 says "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:"

COMPLETE STUDY ON HOW TO BE SAVED

"How can I be saved?" This is the single most important question you will ever ask, and the answer you receive is just as important. With this in mind we want to explain exactly how to be saved. How do you know if were giving you the right answer? You wont until you personally and carefully review the scriptures. Search the word of God and determine for yourself whether or not what we teach you is accurate. Please pray upon what you study. Talk to God about what you learn and you will be blessed by this experience.

First of all let me say that salvation is so very simple. So simple in fact a child could understand and they most assuredly do. However, despite the simplicity of salvation you have no reason to doubt its effectiveness. Human nature is to perform in order to receive. After all, our entire lives are based on this concept, at least in an earthly (carnal) sense. We work at our jobs to receive payment for our services. We pay money to receive goods and services. Our entire mentality revolves around this notion. Knowing this we can have an even greater appreciation for the means by which we receive eternal life. For it is by the grace of God through His faithfulness and our faith in Him that we receive this wonderful gift. Our works do not save us at all. Please read Ephesians 2:8, 9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." This is a key verse in understanding how to be saved.

Before we continue I want to discuss a very important fact that we must all face before we can be saved. This fact is that we are all sinners. Before we can receive the gift of eternal life we must first acknowledge the fact that we are sinners. There is nothing that we can do to change this fact because we were born with the sin nature inside each and everyone of us. Romans 5:12 says "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" When Adam transgressed against God he caused a state of separation to come between man and God. With this separation also came Gods judgement upon man that we all be cursed with a sin nature. To further illustrate our sinfulness let us review two additional scriptures. Romans 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" Romans 3:23 says "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." It is very important that we acknowledge and believe this fact before we continue.

We must also realize and believe that sinners who are not saved will surely receive Gods punishment. Romans 6:23 says "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." In Revelation 20 we find a frightening description of what Gods punishment for unjustified sin is. Verse 15 says "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Please read Revelation 20: 10 15) Let this be a startling reminder of the importance of not delaying because none of us know what tomorrow brings. Perhaps death lies near upon the horizon. Please dont delay!

Now that youve realized that youre a sinner facing God;s eternal wrath upon sin, you must come to an understanding and belief that you need a Saviour. You must realize that there is nothing that you can do to avoid Gods wrath. Now, heres the good news. You have a Saviour! Someone has already done what was impossible for you to accomplish. That someone is Jesus Christ. God the Father set forth His Son, Jesus Christ to be the sacrifice for sin. For your sin and for my sin. Romans 3:25 says "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;". In order for you to be saved and receive eternal life you must first be totally righteous in Gods eyes. When Jesus Christ shed His blood on the cross He declared His righteousness for the remission of our sins. He offered a means by which we can be released from the guilt and the penalty of our sins. Romans 3:26 says "To declare, I say, at this time His righteousness: that He might be just, and the Justifier of him which believeth in Jesus".

Now, what must we do to receive this wonderful gift? Remember that we do nothing. All that is required of us is to believe. Simply believe that you are a sinner in need of a Saviour. Believe that Gods wrath will be poured out upon sin. Believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins, was buried and rose again on the third day. I Corinthians 15:14 says "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

The gospel of Jesus Christ is so simple yet so effective. This wonderful gift is offered to everyone and you can receive it. You can receive justification for your sins thanks to Christ Jesus. Because of His total righteousness and faithfulness you can also be totally righteous in the eyes of God. Simply believe and then you receive. Romans 3:22 says "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:" If you believe this wonderful truth how that Christ died on the cross for your sins, was buried and risen again, you are saved. You have eternal life, which is sealed by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ. Please spend time meditating upon these things and talk to God about your decision. Thank Him for sending Christ as your sin sacrifice. Spend time in Gods word. Remember this; you speak to God through your prayers and He will speak to you through the Holy Scriptures. This is why it is so important that we spend as much time as possible in prayer and studying the Bible.


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 26, 2003, 02:52:06 PM
I Corinthians 15:3 and 4 read, "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"



Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 26, 2003, 02:54:39 PM
If youve been told youll lose your salvation if you do something bad, youve been told an error. Why would God give you a gift that has nothing to do with your good works and then take it away because of your bad works? He wouldnt. He offers us salvation as a free gift. Just believe it and rely on nothing else. Thats faith! Rely upon the finished work of Jesus Christ. As the song says

JESUS PAID IT ALL; ALL TO HIM I OWE.

SIN HAD LEFT A CRIMSON STAIN;

HE WASHED IT WHITE AS SNOW.

What a wonderful message of Gods grace! What a God we serve!



Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 26, 2003, 02:57:07 PM
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/callupon.gif)





Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: asaph on April 26, 2003, 03:44:38 PM
Quote

(Philippians.2:13. 'For it is God who works in you both to will and to do for his good pleasure.' What a lot of Christians forget is that it is God who saved us. It is God who keeps us and it is God who is working in us to make us more like Christ. We must also distinguish between how God sees us IN CHRIST, perfect and righteous [our standing before God] and our daily walk in all it's failings and shortcomings. [our state before God ] The first is perfect and never fails for it is based on God and His promises. The last rises and falls according to our obedience to His Word and whether we live for Christ and walk in the Spirit.

Salvation from the penalty of sin and life in Christ is a present possession secured for eternity.)

1 So in other words: no matter how we live, as long as we have faith in Jesus, we are assured of eternal Life?

2 So it is salvation from the penalty of sin and not sin itself?

3 So we really can't tell the difference between a believer and an unbeliever except by his confession of faith in being delivered from the penalty of sin?

4 So if we can't really tell the difference between a believer and a pre-christian, then we can't really know if the person is saved or not? So the only assurance I can give you is, you are saved because you believe you are saved? We can't really know them by their fruit?

5 So Jesus did not die and rise to save his people from their sins but only from the penalty of their sins?

6 So there is really no salvation from sin, but only forgiveness for the sins we are living in?

7 Is this another gospel?

asaph





Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Sean on April 26, 2003, 07:17:15 PM
Quote
Sounds like new covenant to me.

That is a pretty big leap.


Yes, it is a pretty big leap & a bold claim to say that the Bible means nothing and you should not abide by anything Jesus taught except that we are saved by grace.  (Is that the only part of it that is still true?)  

Jeremiah 31:
31   "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,
32   not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD.
33   "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Matthew 5:
17   "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
18   "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
19   "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20   "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

"All" has not yet been accomplished!  Unless you believe all things have been completed and we are in a renewed Heaven and earth with Satan locked up.

Here is another thread on the topic: http://www.christianforums.com/threads/43288-1.html (http://www.christianforums.com/threads/43288-1.html)


Title: 'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 26, 2003, 08:32:41 PM
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/savedbygrace.gif)


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: nChrist on April 27, 2003, 12:35:16 AM

7 Is this another gospel?

asaph

Oklahoma Howdy to Asaph,

No, it is the Gospel of God's Grace, but you left out some things. A child of God will receive rewards for good and chastisement for bad. The quality and depth of our fellowship with Jesus Christ is measured by a Christian's walk in the Spirit. No man can live without sin, regardless of how hard he or she tries. God proclaims this in the Scriptures, and this fact should be obvious and painfully clear to all men. The very thought of sin is the same as the deed according to the Scriptures, and any man claiming to be holy would be a liar.

The gift of Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour does not give you a license to sin. The Apostle Paul makes this very clear in Ephesians. It is also made exceptionally clear that no man will ever be able to boast of his own good works, his own righteousness, or his own holiness as having anything at all to do with his or her salvation. In plain terms, no man can add to or take away from the BLOOD OF JESUS. If Jesus is your Lord and Saviour, you have been purchased and you belong to him forever. You could live and breathe Jesus and his Holy Word 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and still have no righteousness or holiness of your own. You would also have NOTHING to claim in terms of earning or paying for your salvation. All goodness and righteousness of God's children is imputed to them through the BLOOD OF JESUS. Good works on the part of a believer is from a grateful heart for the precious gifts given them by their FATHER, ALMIGHTY GOD.


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Sean on April 27, 2003, 07:54:43 AM
Quote
Sounds like new covenant to me.


Point number one.  Jesus was still speaking to Isreal, the Gentiles are not on the list at that moment.

He was commanding the Isrealites to tell the other Isrealites to obey all that he commanded.  Paul/Saul was not even converted yet and He was the one who would be sent to the Gentiles with a new and living way.  The Jews were and are still the Jews.  

How do you interpret:
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you"
to mean only the Jews/Isrealites?  By that logic, You could take the term "By Grace you have been saved" to only apply to the Jews/Isrealites since that is who Jesus ministered to.  For Jesus said: "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Mat 15:24)

His teachings and grace are for all that are willing, not just the Jews/Isrealites.


Quote
Point number two, you have jumped from Matt 5 to Matt 28

That is a pretty big leap.

You can use all of Matthew (and the other Gospels) to learn of what Jesus commands, the Beattitudes are just one (but a big) example.


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 27, 2003, 08:00:15 AM

7 Is this another gospel?

asaph



Oklahoma Howdy to Asaph,

No, it is the Gospel of God's Grace, but you left out some things. A child of God will receive rewards for good and chastisement for bad. The quality and depth of our fellowship with Jesus Christ is measured by a Christian's walk in the Spirit. No man can live without sin, regardless of how hard he or she tries. God proclaims this in the Scriptures, and this fact should be obvious and painfully clear to all men. The very thought of sin is the same as the deed according to the Scriptures, and any man claiming to be holy would be a liar.

The gift of Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour does not give you a license to sin. The Apostle Paul makes this very clear in Ephesians. It is also made exceptionally clear that no man will ever be able to boast of his own good works, his own righteousness, or his own holiness as having anything at all to do with his or her salvation. In plain terms, no man can add to or take away from the BLOOD OF JESUS. If Jesus is your Lord and Saviour, you have been purchased and you belong to him forever. You could live and breathe Jesus and his Holy Word 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and still have no righteousness or holiness of your own. You would also have NOTHING to claim in terms of earning or paying for your salvation. All goodness and righteousness of God's children is imputed to them through the BLOOD OF JESUS. Good works on the part of a believer is from a grateful heart for the precious gifts given them by their FATHER, ALMIGHTY GOD.

AAAAAAAAAAAAMEN Bro Thanks






Sean:

(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/thetruth.gif)



Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Early57 on April 27, 2003, 08:00:53 AM
Quote
Jeremiah 31:
31  "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,



Quote
house of Israel, house of Judah,

Sean which House do you belong too?


Of course I'm a gentile who believed in the Lord Jesus and received Him as My Lord and Savior and accepted His work that He did on the Cross on behalf of all mankind, but I'm not an Isrealite, nor am I from the tribe of Judah.

There was a time after Jesus had lived, taught and was killed as the perfect sacrifice, rose again and assended into Heaven and presented His blood as payment for all the sins of the world for all time, Past , Present and future that God showed Peter a Vision of unclean things and Peter refused to take of them and they had not been cleansed until the third time God lowered the sheet with all the unclean beasts and then God declared that He will no longer consider these beasts unclean and Peter understood that God was speaking also about the House of the gentiles that they would no longer be unclean so they could now receive Salvation through believing in the Lord Jesus and so it began and Peter went to the gentiles house and they received the gift of Salvation then the gift of the Holy Spirit and then were baptized in water and Peter went his way and soon Paul was sent to the gentiles to preach forgiveness of sins to the Gentiles and The Holy Spirit,  Paul and Peter came to this conclusion:

Acts 15
28   "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
29   that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."
30   So when they were sent away, they went down to Antioch; and having gathered the congregation together, they delivered the letter.

But now we have all the Teachers of the Law that say the Holy Spirit was wrong and so were Paul and Peter, but that we must Obey the teachings of Jesus that he gave to the House of Isreal and to the House of Judah, but it was Jesus who said:

Matthew 15

23Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."
24He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
25The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said.

See Jesus said this and you say otherwise.

But Jesus also said:

Matthew 10

5These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7As you go, preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.'


And yet you tell everyone that they have to Listen to the teachings of Jesus inorder to be saved, but Jesus does not say the things that you say.  

So In conclusion:
We have the Modren teachers of the law and then there is God (Jesus/Holy Spirit) who teach two different ways.  

Which one should we listen too?


Well you insist that we listen to Jesus so I guess you are right that we should listen to Jesus and He said he was sent only to the Lost Sheep of Isreal



Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 27, 2003, 08:04:45 AM
Quote
Jeremiah 31:
31  "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,



Quote
house of Israel, house of Judah,

Sean which House do you belong too?


Of course I'm a gentile who believed in the Lord Jesus and received Him as My Lord and Savior and accepted His work that He did on the Cross on behalf of all mankind, but I'm not an Isrealite, nor am I from the tribe of Judah.

There was a time after Jesus had lived, taught and was killed as the perfect sacrifice, rose again and assended into Heaven and presented His blood as payment for all the sins of the world for all time, Past , Present and future that God showed Peter a Vision of unclean things and Peter refused to take of them and they had not been cleansed until the third time God lowered the sheet with all the unclean beasts and then God declared that He will no longer consider these beasts unclean and Peter understood that God was speaking also about the House of the gentiles that they would no longer be unclean so they could now receive Salvation through believing in the Lord Jesus and so it began and Peter went to the gentiles house and they received the gift of Salvation then the gift of the Holy Spirit and then were baptized in water and Peter went his way and soon Paul was sent to the gentiles to preach forgiveness of sins to the Gentiles and The Holy Spirit,  Paul and Peter came to this conclusion:

Acts 15
28   "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
29   that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."
30   So when they were sent away, they went down to Antioch; and having gathered the congregation together, they delivered the letter.

But now we have all the Teachers of the Law that say the Holy Spirit was wrong and so were Paul and Peter, but that we must Obey the teachings of Jesus that he gave to the House of Isreal and to the House of Judah, but it was Jesus who said:

Matthew 15

23Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."
24He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
25The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said.

See Jesus said this and you say otherwise.

But Jesus also said:

Matthew 10

5These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7As you go, preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.'


And yet you tell everyone that they have to Listen to the teachings of Jesus inorder to be saved, but Jesus does not say the things that you say.  

So In conclusion:
We have the Modren teachers of the law and then there is God (Jesus/Holy Spirit) who teach two different ways.  

Which one should we listen too?


Well you insist that we listen to Jesus so I guess you are right that we should listen to Jesus and He said he was sent only to the Lost Sheep of Isreal



WOW!!! Very Good Bro You also get a "BIG" AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN!!!


Sean:
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/thetruth.gif)




Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Early57 on April 27, 2003, 08:09:19 AM
Sean you are mixing the two time periods up.

Jesus said this "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations" After He Died and rose again.  the other teachings of Jesus was before He Died and rose again.


The period of Grace had not begun before the Perfect Sacrifice had been made.   Jesus was sent only to the Lost sheep of Isreal.   It does not mean we cannot be saved as gentiles, it only means that Jesus was sent only to the Lost sheep of Isreal


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Early57 on April 27, 2003, 08:21:11 AM
Did Jesus say " For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast." ?


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 27, 2003, 06:34:14 PM
Sean you are mixing the two time periods up.

Jesus said this "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations" After He Died and rose again.  the other teachings of Jesus was before He Died and rose again.


The period of Grace had not begun before the Perfect Sacrifice had been made.   Jesus was sent only to the Lost sheep of Isreal.   It does not mean we cannot be saved as gentiles, it only means that Jesus was sent only to the Lost sheep of Isreal

AMEN & AMEN  ;D


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 27, 2003, 06:36:43 PM
Did Jesus say " For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast." ?

I know, I know. I know the answer  ;D

Do you Sean?

Sean
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/thetruth.gif)


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Sean on April 27, 2003, 06:41:49 PM
 ???

You are missing my point.  Jesus came for the lost sheep of Isreal but they rejected Him so his grace has been extened to Gentiles as well.  I used those points to illustate your logic path, which I don't agree with, not to say Jesus Grace does not include us.

I said:
Quote
How do you interpret:
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you"
to mean only the Jews/Isrealites?  By that logic, You could take the term "By Grace you have been saved" to only apply to the Jews/Isrealites since that is who Jesus ministered to.  For Jesus said: "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Mat 15:24)

His teachings and grace are for all that are willing, not just the Jews/Isrealites.

My point is that you say everything Jesus said including after his resurrection does not apply to Gentiles even though he said "teaching them to observe all that I commanded you."  That's a dangerous statement since he spoke of our salvation too.

Quote
house of Israel, house of Judah,
The covenant was origianlly for them but since they rejected Christ 'The chief corner stone that was rejected' the covenant was extended to the Gentiles since the Jews rejected it.

I'll ask 2 questions:

Is it possible for someone under physical (water) baptizm in a church setting and not accept Christs' Grace?  (i.e. getting baptized because your family told you to, etc.)  Resulting in not being saved.

Do you believe any of Gods' commandments are sacred are have they "passed away" with the new covenant.  What would you tell someone who you are preaching too?  Do you tell them that once they are saved they will no longer be subject to the law or do you tell them that there is no law, no guide for the saved.




Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Sean on April 27, 2003, 06:49:25 PM
Did Jesus say " For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast." ?

I know, I know. I know the answer  ;D

Do you Sean?

Yes, He also said:
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you"

:D


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Sean on April 27, 2003, 09:42:34 PM
The saved should do the will of Jesus not to be saved but for 3 reasons.  

1.  To build treasure in heaven as Jesus teaches.

2.  To live a productive life, knowing you are saved you no longer   worry/obsess about money, power and other earthy worries since this life is temporary and will pass away but the saved will have etrernal life in His kingdom.

3.  So that the non-believers will see by your actions that we are loving and respectful, and no longer fear the very things the non-believers fear (as noted in #2) because of Jesus Christ.  When non-believers see the earthy things we do are good, they eventually ask what your "secret" is.  They think 'If Jesus could do that to them,  if He can take away the fear and worry, then maybe Jesus could transform my life as well.'  Obviously, the transformation Jesus has made in our lives is much more than our actions, it is the promise of our sins being coverd by His death on the cross and etrernal life in His kingdom.


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Early57 on April 27, 2003, 09:46:09 PM
Gods law

Hmmmmm

Well I think that only God could follow Gods law so He came and did just that; he lived a perfect human life and gave himself as the only perfect sacrifice.


Gods law is just to show me that I do not measure up.

Jesus' words were to the Isrealites before he died.

Jesus did not say much after the resurrection. He mainly appeared as a witness that He rose again.

His words are great to follow and to base our life upon.  They are not a new Law for us to receive Salvation.  His truth will set us free to live a life in peace with Him but His words do not bring Salvation; his Death, Buriel, and resurrection then the Blood being presented in Heaven gave us Salvation by Grace through faith in Him. His words tell us great and mighty things, his sacrifice gave us great and mighty things.


I wish you could receive the truth and be set free.






Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Sean on April 27, 2003, 10:45:15 PM

His words are great to follow and to base our life upon.  They are not a new Law for us to receive Salvation.  

I wish you could receive the truth and be set free.

Can you please show me where I said there was a new Law that must be followed to receive Salvation.  This has never been a part of what I am saying.  I have been saying: Saved person [pasted tense] follows God and His will [present and future tense] because he/she loves the Lord.  It's done out of respect, not to gain salvation.


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: nChrist on April 28, 2003, 07:14:55 AM
Oklahoma Howdy to Sean,

I'm not trying to be smart or start an argument with this post. I just wish to give you some thoughts about the new covenant. They will be in the form of questions, and you should easily be able to answer them with very little study.

1.  Who was the old covenant (the Law) with? The Jews, The Gentiles, or both.

2.  If you decide to live by the law, how many places in the Bible say that you have to obey all of it?

3.  Do you regularly see a High Priest to serve as an intermediary for you with God? Surely you don't pray directly to God, do you?

4.  Do you eat pork?

5.  Do you make burnt offerings on a schedule?

6.  Do you stone to death adulterers, witches, and rebellious children that reach the age of 18?

I think that's probably enough examples. Would you believe there are hundreds of them? You either live under the LAW, all of it, or you live under Grace. If you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour, you are living under Grace. The Gospel of God's Grace was not available to man until after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. I hope you don't think I was trying to be smart with this post. I can see from your posts that you do read the Bible. I'm not asking you to believe anything without studying it for yourself. If you start in Ephesians, you should get a really good idea of what the crucifixion of Jesus Christ actually meant and what it means for a Christian to live under the Gospel of God's Grace.


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Sean on April 28, 2003, 08:45:13 AM
Are you a (pre-mil) dispensationalist?

I don't think you are being smart, as a matter of fact, you have driven me to "dig deep" in my heart and in the Bible.  I just think I have been misunderstood.  I just don't want potential Christians to see this forum and think that if they just "say the magic words" they will be saved and can continue in sin and they won't be held accountable.  Being saved is a serious conviction of your life and not to be taken "half-heartedly".

Read Ephesians 4 & 5.  They pretty much sum up what I mean.  To do what is good, because it is our way of giving thanks to the Lord.  I understand Ephesians 3 also.  It was not my intent to try and disprove Grace in any way.  Just that not all receive it.


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: nChrist on April 28, 2003, 11:06:41 PM
Are you a (pre-mil) dispensationalist?

I don't think you are being smart, as a matter of fact, you have driven me to "dig deep" in my heart and in the Bible.  I just think I have been misunderstood.  I just don't want potential Christians to see this forum and think that if they just "say the magic words" they will be saved and can continue in sin and they won't be held accountable.  Being saved is a serious conviction of your life and not to be taken "half-heartedly".


Oklahoma Howdy to Sean,

I believe that the Church which is the Body of Christ will be raptured prior to the tribulation period. In terms of religious and denominational tags, I'm hesitant to use them because I found out they mean different things to different people. I would tell anyone that I firmly believe the Gospel of God's Grace applies specifically to me. However, I would also tell you that the entire Bible must be studied and understood to appreciate the Gospel of God's Grace. God's Grace is not a license to continue in sin, just the opposite. The focus and center of my belief is JESUS CHRIST as my personal Lord and Saviour and the MATCHLESS LOVE AND GRACE OF GOD.

I believe that rightly dividing the Word of Truth involves much more than just dispensations. I like to take the portion of Scripture and put it in context with the chapter and book. Further, I like to use other references throughout the Holy Bible that offers additional or supporting material. It is a must to know who the speaker is, who the intended audience is, and whether the portion of scripture deals with a time before or after the crucifixion of Jesus.

I'm not a preacher, but if I was, I would be preaching the Gospel of God's Grace and trying to build up believers in their faith and fellowship with Christ. The peace and joy come by walking in the Spirit and yielding to HIS will and purpose. I'll post some more after a little bit of rest.

In Christ.


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 29, 2003, 03:11:27 PM

7 Is this another gospel?

asaph

AAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN!!!! Preach it Brother  ;D

Oklahoma Howdy to Asaph,

No, it is the Gospel of God's Grace, but you left out some things. A child of God will receive rewards for good and chastisement for bad. The quality and depth of our fellowship with Jesus Christ is measured by a Christian's walk in the Spirit. No man can live without sin, regardless of how hard he or she tries. God proclaims this in the Scriptures, and this fact should be obvious and painfully clear to all men. The very thought of sin is the same as the deed according to the Scriptures, and any man claiming to be holy would be a liar.

The gift of Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour does not give you a license to sin. The Apostle Paul makes this very clear in Ephesians. It is also made exceptionally clear that no man will ever be able to boast of his own good works, his own righteousness, or his own holiness as having anything at all to do with his or her salvation. In plain terms, no man can add to or take away from the BLOOD OF JESUS. If Jesus is your Lord and Saviour, you have been purchased and you belong to him forever. You could live and breathe Jesus and his Holy Word 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and still have no righteousness or holiness of your own. You would also have NOTHING to claim in terms of earning or paying for your salvation. All goodness and righteousness of God's children is imputed to them through the BLOOD OF JESUS. Good works on the part of a believer is from a grateful heart for the precious gifts given them by their FATHER, ALMIGHTY GOD.


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 29, 2003, 03:14:22 PM
Are you a (pre-mil) dispensationalist?

I don't think you are being smart, as a matter of fact, you have driven me to "dig deep" in my heart and in the Bible.  I just think I have been misunderstood.  I just don't want potential Christians to see this forum and think that if they just "say the magic words" they will be saved and can continue in sin and they won't be held accountable.  Being saved is a serious conviction of your life and not to be taken "half-heartedly".


Oklahoma Howdy to Sean,

I believe that the Church which is the Body of Christ will be raptured prior to the tribulation period. In terms of religious and denominational tags, I'm hesitant to use them because I found out they mean different things to different people. I would tell anyone that I firmly believe the Gospel of God's Grace applies specifically to me. However, I would also tell you that the entire Bible must be studied and understood to appreciate the Gospel of God's Grace. God's Grace is not a license to continue in sin, just the opposite. The focus and center of my belief is JESUS CHRIST as my personal Lord and Saviour and the MATCHLESS LOVE AND GRACE OF GOD.

I believe that rightly dividing the Word of Truth involves much more than just dispensations. I like to take the portion of Scripture and put it in context with the chapter and book. Further, I like to use other references throughout the Holy Bible that offers additional or supporting material. It is a must to know who the speaker is, who the intended audience is, and whether the portion of scripture deals with a time before or after the crucifixion of Jesus.

I'm not a preacher, but if I was, I would be preaching the Gospel of God's Grace and trying to build up believers in their faith and fellowship with Christ. The peace and joy come by walking in the Spirit and yielding to HIS will and purpose. I'll post some more after a little bit of rest.

In Christ.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN!!!!!


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Sean on April 30, 2003, 09:17:03 AM
Do you believe we can choose Christ and be saved or do you think we are pre-destined (calvanist) to be saved or judged?


Title: "What is Truth"
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 30, 2003, 02:16:24 PM
Two things are very important

To know Jesus Christ as your Saviour so as to be sure right now of your eternal destiny.

To know what is the right truth for the believer today so you can walk in its fullness.



Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 30, 2003, 02:21:50 PM
Scripture reading Romans 4:5

There is hardly a more "life changing Scripture" than this one! Can it really be that God means what this verse says! To the one who does not work, but simply believes on Him" that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness"? Words could not be clearer than these simply words of assurance that God gave Paul to write. God's wonderful grace is based upon Christ's work then, and not mine. I am to sincerely trust Him as Saviour and take God at His Word that He will count my faith, my believing Him, for righteousness.

I knew I did not have righteousness of my own. I really did not think that I could do the "mission impossible" of pleasing God. But, like so very many religious folks, I tried anyway. Surely good works together with the "means of grace" dispensed thru the sacraments of the church should count for something. After all, what could God expect! That was all my religious leaders seemed to expect. But then came, "to him that worketh not...!" And what a blessed relief it was--and still is--to know that God counts believing His Son for eternal righteousness in His sight.

Then all these works to gain God's favor were for nothing. I already had His favor, for "God commends His love toward us in that, while we were [I was] yet sinners Christ died for us." God had shown His favor. I had simply to take Him at His Word.

From the time that was a settled issue in my soul, I had peace, assurance, pardon, life, the hope of glory and grace abounding with more than I ever thought possible! These blessings did not come until I realized that it was not what I did, but what Christ had already done. Now a life of good works in thankful worship can result!


Title: Romans 4:4-5
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 30, 2003, 02:31:45 PM
Scripture Reading: Romans 4:4-5



God has always offered salvation to mankind. Even before man fell into sin, God planned to provide for salvation throughout "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Revelation 13:8). Furthermore, God has always offered salvation on the basis of faith for "without faith it is impossible to please Him" (Hebrews 11:6).

However, throughout the ages, God has required various methods of exercising faith in Him. Under the Law, man was required to obey the commandments in faith. To obey the Law out of mere tradition without faith did not result in righteousness (see Romans 9:31-32). Likewise, to say you had faith, but then did not obey the Law was also futile (see James 2:8-26). So under the Law, men were saved by faith, which in turn was demonstrated by a faithful obedience to the Law.

But in this dispensation of grace, salvation is offered by faith alone without any required outward response. In fact, Paul us careful to separate works from faith entirely when it comes to being saved. as he says in our text, "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, him faith is counted for righteousness (Romans 4:4-5). We must likewise be careful to present the gospel of grace in a way that our hearers do not confuse works with faith. Many preach that in order to be saved, we must "repent of our sins" or "pray this prayer" or "make Christ Lord of your life." These make be good things to do, but should come as a result of believing he gospel, not as a method of salvation.


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: nChrist on April 30, 2003, 02:50:55 PM
Quote
Do you believe we can choose Christ and be saved or do you think we are pre-destined (calvanist) to be saved or judged?

Oklahoma Howdy to Sean,

I think that many people have a lot of confusion and trouble with the term, "Predestination". Almighty God knows all in eternity past and eternity future. This is the meaning of predestination. Jesus wants all of mankind to love HIM, accept Him as their personal Saviour, and follow HIM as the Lord of their life. Almighty God's foreknowledge of all does not mean that HE has commanded some to be saved and some not to be saved. Almighty God simply knew before the foundation of the world your name, the number of hairs on your head, and whether or not you will accept Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour.

Some take the term of "Predestination" and claim that God commands and programs some people, much like robots, to become children of God. If this were true, HE would command all people to become children of God and obey HIS will and purpose. The world would be a beautiful place if this was true. However, Almighty God gave mankind will and choice to accept or reject Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour.

In Christ.


Title: FIVE MEN MADE FIVE MISTAKES
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on April 30, 2003, 03:58:04 PM
FIVE MEN MADE FIVE MISTAKES

One man struck a match to see if the gasoline tank in
his car was empty. It wasn't.

One man patted a strange dog on the head to see if it
was affectionate. It wasn't.

One man sped up to see if he could beat the train to
the crossing. He didn't.

One man touched an electric wire to see if it was
dead. It wasn't.

One man thought he could get to heaven without Christ.
He couldn't.



Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Sean on April 30, 2003, 07:25:24 PM
Quote
Do you believe we can choose Christ and be saved or do you think we are pre-destined (calvanist) to be saved or judged?

Oklahoma Howdy to Sean,

I think that many people have a lot of confusion and trouble with the term, "Predestination". Almighty God knows all in eternity past and eternity future. This is the meaning of predestination. Jesus wants all of mankind to love HIM, accept Him as their personal Saviour, and follow HIM as the Lord of their life. Almighty God's foreknowledge of all does not mean that HE has commanded some to be saved and some not to be saved. Almighty God simply knew before the foundation of the world your name, the number of hairs on your head, and whether or not you will accept Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour.

Some take the term of "Predestination" and claim that God commands and programs some people, much like robots, to become children of God. If this were true, HE would command all people to become children of God and obey HIS will and purpose. The world would be a beautiful place if this was true. However, Almighty God gave mankind will and choice to accept or reject Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour.

In Christ.

I agree with this, it is un-nerving to think it's not our free choice.  I certainly understand the difference between foreknowledge and pre-destination.  God is all knowing, but we have free will.  I was reading an arguement with people who believe God already made us "one way" (without will) and we do not have the abiblity in ourselves to choose or reject Him.

Ambassador4Christ,
I believe our very faith comes in realizing that we are broken spiritually, and can by no means save ourselves.  It is not until we set aside our sinful worldly view for a moment, and see our inability to please God in any way, that we call on Christ.  A new believer must realize this.  I talk to "believers/chuch goers/religeous people" that say, "I just live my life the best I can and hopefully it's good enough."  You can't be good enough, it seems they have missed the point because since they feel they are "good enough" that they don't need a saviour.  Until someone realizes they need a savior, they won't have faith in the Savior.


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 01, 2003, 02:29:32 AM
Quote
Ambassador4Christ,
I believe our very faith comes in realizing that we are broken spiritually, and can by no means save ourselves.  It is not until we set aside our sinful worldly view for a moment, and see our inability to please God in any way, that we call on Christ.  A new believer must realize this.  I talk to "believers/chuch goers/religeous people" that say, "I just live my life the best I can and hopefully it's good enough."  You can't be good enough, it seems they have missed the point because since they feel they are "good enough" that they don't need a saviour.  Until someone realizes they need a savior, they won't have faith in the Savior.

Sean, I agree with your above statement.


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: nChrist on May 01, 2003, 05:00:33 AM
Oklahoma Howdy to Sean,

Yes, you are correct. No person is good enough to get to Heaven. There is only one way to Heaven. Jesus Christ is the WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE. I think it is very sad that some folks think they can add something of any value to the BLOOD OF JESUS with their own goodness, works, or righteousness.

God's children do benefit greatly when they attempt to do the will and purpose of God. Our fellowship with Jesus is fuller and the fruits of the Spirit are more bountiful (i.e. peace, joy, love). When we don't follow the will and purpose of God, we can expect chastisement and lesser fellowship with Christ. Our good works are simply the reasonable service of a grateful child. If we have anything to boast about, it will be in Christ. If we have any glory, it will be glory, honor, and praise to God.


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: sincereheart on May 01, 2003, 08:33:45 AM
God's children do benefit greatly when they attempt to do the will and purpose of God. Our fellowship with Jesus is fuller and the fruits of the Spirit are more bountiful (i.e. peace, joy, love). When we don't follow the will and purpose of God, we can expect chastisement and lesser fellowship with Christ. Our good works are simply the reasonable service of a grateful child. If we have anything to boast about, it will be in Christ. If we have any glory, it will be glory, honor, and praise to God.

*applauds*
and throws in an A4C "DITTO"!  ;)


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 01, 2003, 12:59:30 PM
God's children do benefit greatly when they attempt to do the will and purpose of God. Our fellowship with Jesus is fuller and the fruits of the Spirit are more bountiful (i.e. peace, joy, love). When we don't follow the will and purpose of God, we can expect chastisement and lesser fellowship with Christ. Our good works are simply the reasonable service of a grateful child. If we have anything to boast about, it will be in Christ. If we have any glory, it will be glory, honor, and praise to God.

*applauds*
and throws in an A4C "DITTO"!  ;)

And here is one back at you Bro DITTO  ;D


Title: I believe the B-I-B-L-E
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 01, 2003, 05:14:03 PM
Did Jesus Really Do Enough?

Apparently not if you listen to what religion, tradition and denominationalism are saying.
They seem to say "Jesus paid a part and I a part you know, sin had left a crimson stain WE washed it white as snow."

I believe what the Bible says.

The Bible says we are not capable of doing enough good to save ourselves. Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come SHORT of the glory of God;

The Bible says the Lord Jesus Christ paid for all our sins. He did not miss any of them, now or in the future.

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you ALL trespasses;

The Bible says he paid enough. Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE FOR ALL.

I believe the B-I-B-L-E


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Sean on May 01, 2003, 09:12:37 PM
Amen!  ;D


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 02, 2003, 08:28:53 PM
We all spend a tremendous amount of time, effort and money to care for our temporal needs, but few seem concerned about their eternal needs. TOO BUSY? We shouldnt be!

A long time ago, Jesus asked, for what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? Do you have answers to these vital questions? If not, I sincerely hope you will take a few moments right now to seriously consider what God wants you to know about life now and the life hereafter. It will be time well spent  perhaps the most crucial few minutes of your entire existence.

The written Word of God, the Bible, emphatically states what we must understand and what we must believe if we are to be brought into a right relationship with our Creator. We can KNOW where we will spend eternity. It makes no difference what our opinions might be, but it makes all the difference in the world what Almighty God has said must be!



Title: For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 02, 2003, 08:51:41 PM
The first thing the Bible would have us realize is our natural standing before God. We are by nature the children of wrath, (Ephesians 2:3), and we are dead in trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1). We are sinners by birth and by practice. There are no exceptions! As it is written, there is none righteous, no not one, (Romans 3:10). For all have sinned, and conic short of the glory of God, (Romans 3:23). As sinners we have fallen far short of the divine standard of absolute holiness and we stand before an all righteous God  GUILTY AS CHARGED! Consider the consequences if you should die in this condition at this very moment. The Bible removes all uncertainty concerning what would lie beyond the grave, for it says, It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement. (Hebrews 9:27). The outcome of this judgement is revealed as well. Until the sin problem has been settled, there is no possible way a guilty sinner can enter the glories of heaven.

The next logical question is, If one dying in sin cannot enter heaven, then where will he spend eternity? Revelation 20:15 answers by stating, Whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Hell is a place of everlasting and literal torment. This eternal existence in the lake of fire is referred to as the second death and is the just penalty for sin For the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). Those who die in their sins face the reality of eternal suffering  the bitter end of sin!


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 03, 2003, 07:46:32 AM
Since Gods Word plainly declares that we are all sinners and that as such we cannot possibly enter into heaven, the question I would now ask you is of utmost importance  WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT YOUR SIN? Several answers are often given in response to this incredibly vital consideration. Many feel their sin can be taken care of by living a good life or by turning over a new leaf and trying to do better. Others see themselves as just as good as the next person and in the final analysis, their good will outweigh their bad and somehow everything will work out all right. Still others sincerely believe that by joining the church or by going through religious ceremonies (confirmation, baptism, confession partaking of the Lords Supper, etc.,) they will be able to relieve sins guilt and penalty  But the Word of God is very definite concerning the error of such reasoning and the utter futility of any self-effort to remedy ones own sinful condition. It is not by works of righteousness which we have done according to His mercy He saved us (Titus 3:5). Actually, we have no righteousness of our own nor could we do any good work which would help in the lightest way in accomplishing our salvation, i.e., or forgiveness from sin. The Bible says, We are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags, (Isaiah 64:6). Through holy resolve, religious activity, and honest effort we can make our life appear more respectable on the exterior. But inwardly, the heart is unchanged. Sin is concealed, not washed away. No good work, religious ceremony, or pious intention can ever cancel Gods declared penalty for our sin.



Title: For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 03, 2003, 09:26:51 AM
What, then, must we do to be saved? If the Bible plainly teaches that we can do nothing to save ourselves from sin and its penalty (and it does), then how can we be made acceptable before God? Once again, the answer is found in Gods Holy Word and what a wonderful answer it is! He (God the father) hath made us accepted in the beloved (Jesus Christ) Ephesians 1:6. How is it that we can have acceptance before God in the person of Jesus Christ? For when we were yet without strength, in due time CHRIST DIED FOR THE UNGODLY (Romans 5:6). Think of that! When we were yet without strength, completely unable to do anything to effect our own salvation, Christ died in our place. God knew we were utterly helpless as hell-bound sinners and in accordance with HIS GRACE, He intervened in our behalf. He sent His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, into the world to shed His precious blood as the FULL and COMPLETE payment for sin. In so doing, Jesus Christ died the death of the sinner. For He (God the Father) hath made Him (Jesus Christ) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. (II Corinthians 5:21). And why did He do this? The answer is found in Romans 5:8:

But God commendeth HIS LOVE toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

You see, the penalty for sin had to be paid, and God the Father placed our sin upon the bruised and bleeding body of His dear Son. The full weight and penalty for sin, OUR SIN, fell upon the crucified Lord of Glory! He was our sin-bearer, our substitute. When He cried out from the cross, IT IS FINISHED, He had accomplished just that, a COMPLETE and ALL-SUFFICIENT OFFERING for sin a PERFECT SALVATION!!


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: nChrist on May 03, 2003, 10:42:24 AM
Oklahoma Howdy to Ambassador4Christ,

Amen! Thank you brother. God's Matchless Grace is Exceedingly Abundant!!!!

In Christ,

bep


Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 03, 2003, 03:05:37 PM
bep, God's Matchless Grace is Exceedingly Abundant!!!!

A4C, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN!!!  ;D


Title: For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 03, 2003, 03:09:09 PM
The Bible is very clear concerning what you must now do in order to make His perfect, complete salvation your own. Salvation is a wonderful truth. But is will be of no value to you unless you believe it. It is through FAITH in the Lord Jesus Christ and His complete work that the cleansing power of the blood is applied. It was His sacrificial death on the cross which provides salvation for any lost sinner who will simply TRUST IN HIM as the ONLY Saviour for sin and the ONLY way to heaven. When we believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died, was buried and was raised again bodily from the tomb, and trust that all this was doe to accomplish a perfect salvation for sinful man, then we receive full forgiveness of sins and the gift of everlasting life!



Title: Re:'For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: nChrist on May 03, 2003, 05:27:02 PM
Oklahoma Howdy to Ambassador4Christ,

Your messages and graphics are a real Blessing! Is there a place to get beautiful graphics like that?

In Christ,

Tom


Title: For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 03, 2003, 07:35:25 PM
(http://www.christart.com/images_153free/ClipArt/bycolor/888888/cface_03.gif)


Title: "... behold, ye have sinned against the LORD...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 04, 2003, 09:52:35 AM

"... behold, ye have sinned against the LORD: and be sure YOUR SIN WILL FIND YOU OUT"
(Numbers 32:23).
Now I must start by telling you the bad news, but keep on reading because at the end of this message there is good news.

You must understand that the Bible is THE WORD OF GOD, not the word of men. The Bible tells us God's law and the bad news is you have BROKEN GOD'S LAW and that is called SIN!


"For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not"
(Ecclesiastes 7:20).
Therefore...


"Whosoever commiteth sin transgresseth also the law: FOR SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW'
(1 John 3:4).
One example of a sin and how you have broken God's law is when you told a lie. God Almighty said very clearly in His Word not to tell a lie:


"Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, NEITHER LIE ONE TO ANOTHER"
(Leviticus 19:11).
Yet you have done just the opposite: YOU HAVE LIED!


"... let God be true, BUT EVERY MAN A LIAR... ≥
(Romans 3:4).
How many lies do you have to tell to become a liar? Well, how many murders does a person have to commit to become a murderer? ONE! So when you told your first lie, you became a liar. Therefore, you are a sinner and you will be held personally accountable to God Almighty for every single sin you have ever committed in thought, word or deed. You then will receive exactly what you earned for your sins: DEATH!


"For the wages of sin is DEATH..."
(Romans 6:23).
When you die physically one day, this will be your first death. Then after you are dead, your soul will leave your body and you will stand before God Almighty to be JUDGED for all the sins you have committed in ,your lifetime:


"And I saw a GREAT WHITE THRONE, and Him that sat on it... "And I saw the dead, small and great, STAND BEFORE GOD- and the books were opened... and the dead were JUDGED out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works"
(Revelation 20:11,12).
Then after you have been truthfully judged by God Almighty and declared GUILTY, you then will receive what sinners deserve. You will be cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone where you will burn forever and ever DYING FOR YOUR SINS!


"...ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the SECOND DEATH"
(Revelation 21:8).
Just try to imagine how it will feel to die for your sins in the Lake of Fire. For example, try holding your hand in an open flame for just 10 seconds, Now imagine spending ETERNITY in a Lake of Fire and Brimstone!


"The same shall drink of the wine of the WRATH OF GOD, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation; and he shall be TORMENTED WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE..."
(Revelation 14:10).

And worst of all, you will have NO HOPE of ever getting out!

"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up FOR EVER AND EVER... "
(Revelation 14:1 1).
Therefore, your punishment for eternity will be to burn in the Lake of Fire FOREVER AND EVER. This will be the death of your soul which is called THE SECOND DEATH. Now, you might be saying to yourself that you don't believe what the Bible says. If that's so, the Lord Jesus Christ has something to say to you:


"He that rejecteth me, and RECEIVETH NOT my words, hath one that judgeth him: THE WORD THAT I HAVE SPOKEN, THE SAME SHALL JUDGE HIM IN THE LAST DAY"
(John 12:48).
That's the bad news...

Now answer this question: Would you like to have all your sins forgiven TODAY? If your answer is yes, read on and see the good news that God has for you!


"But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, CHRIST DIED FOR US"
(Romans 5:8).
The Lord Jesus Christ loves you and came into the world to SAVE YOU from spending eternity in the Lake of Fire. In order to do this, your sin debt had to be completely paid. And that is exactly what the Lord Jesus Christ accomplished when He died on the cross at Calvary. HE HAS PAID IN FULL YOUR SIN DEBT WITH HIS OWN BLOOD! Therefore, you do not have to die for your sins in the Lake of Fire. Why? Because the Lord Jesus Christ has already DIED FOR YOU!


"For when we were yet without strength, in due time CHRIST DIED FOR THE UNGODLY"
(Romans 5:6).
My friend, even though you are guilty and worthy of the second death, God Almighty DESIRES to save you from the Lake of Fire. He offers to you the complete forgiveness of your sins as a free gift and right now is your opportunity to receive it. But there is only ONE WAY to get it, so read carefully...


"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM should not perish, but have everlasting life"
(John 3:16).
Now this is the most important part, so if you don't want to burn in the Lake of Fire for eternity, PAY ATTENTION!

Did you notice the Word of God says, "whosoever believeth in Him?" IT DOES NOT SAY, "whosoever believeth in Him PLUS your good works. " If you trust in the Lord Jesus Christ AND in your good works to have your sins forgiven you are telling God Almighty the followings "Lord, I don't believe what your Son did on the cross was ENOUGH to pay for my sins. Therefore, I'll add my good works to what your Son did and Together that should satisfy you and therefore earn the forgiveness of my sins." Right?

WRONG!!! My friend, you are DEAD WRONG!!!

Stop for one minute and think very seriously about the next question I'm going to ask you.

What do you think God Almighty would be more satified with as a payment for your sins? The DEATH of His own dear Son, or your good works? Well, let's see what His own Word tells us He's satisfied with:


"He [God the Father] shall see of the travail of His (Jesus Christ's] soul, and SHALL BE SATISFIED..."
(Isaiah 53:1 1).
This verse clearly says that God is SATISFIED with the DEATH His Son endured on the cross. And the next verse clearly says how He views your good works.


"But we [all mankind] are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses [good works] are as FILTHY RAGS... "
( Isaiah 64:6).
My friend, you have now heard the good news of God's Grace to you . And at this very moment God knows what you are thinking. He now offers to you the complete forgiveness of your sins as a free gift! You now have the responsibility of making a decision.

Here's the question: Who and what are you going to trust in to have all your sins forgiven? The ONLY choice that God Almighty will be pleased with and that will allow Him to JUSTLY forgive all your sins is this: When you STOP trusting in yourself and your own good works and then put your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and in Him ALONE, believing that He paid for all your sins with His BLOOD when HE DIED ON THE CROSS at Calvary.


"Being justified FREELY by His GRACE through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:"
"Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation [a fully satisfying sacrifice] THROUGH FAITH IN HIS BLOOD..."

"...that He might be JUST, and the JUSTIFIER of him WHICH BELIEVETH IN JESUS"
(Romans 3:24-26).

On behalf of God Almighty I BEG YOU, stop trusting in yourself and your own good works. Then simply make a decision in your heart to trust EXCLUSIVELY in the Lord Jesus Christ and in Him ALONE, believing that He paid for all your sins with His BLOOD when HE DIED ON THE CROSS at Calvary.

The moment you trust in Him, God Almighty will forgive you all your sins ONCE AND FOR ALL and save you from spending etemity in the Lake of Fire

THE CHOICE IS NOW UP TO YOU...

Well? What did you decide? If you have wisely decided to stop trusting in yourself and to trust in the Lord Jesus Christ and in Him ALONE, let me say to you on the authority of the INFALLIBLE WORD OF GOD that all your sins have been completely forgiven ONCE AND FOR ALL and you are now SAVED from the Lake of Fire!


"And you, being dead in your sins... hath He quickened together with him, HAVING FORGIVEN YOU ALL TRESPASSES"
(Colossians 2:13).
Plus...


"Much more then, being now justified by His blood, we shall be SAVED FROM WRATH through Him"
(Romans 5:9).
Or, if you foolishly decided to keep on thinking that the death of the Lord Jesus Christ was not enough to pay for your sins and therefore you had better continue to do good works so that you can EARN God Almighty's forgiveness, just remember:


"There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of DEATH"
(Proverbs 14:12).
My friend, if you could get your sins forgiven by doing good works, the Lord Jesus Christ would NEVER have gone to the cross and DIED FOR THEM!



Title: Today...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 04, 2003, 10:09:43 AM
Today God's grace is holding back His anger, allowing mankind a timely opportunity to be saved. Today is your opportunity to trust Jesus Christ--and His payment for sin--to be your salvation. Please don't call God a liar. Trust in the Lord Jesus Christ as your Savior today!



Title: For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 05, 2003, 01:29:15 PM
We can know and be assured of our salvation. We have the testimony of all three persons of the Godhead: God's Word clearly promises it, Christ's work on the cross is the basis for it, and the Holy Spirit bears witness within our hearts that we are God's children.

"Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work." (II Thess. 2:16-17)



Title: For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 05, 2003, 01:42:01 PM
Do not take your beliefs to the Bible. Get your beliefs from the Bible.  ;D


Title: For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 09, 2003, 05:29:57 PM
In every age God has established some action as a show of faith.

In the case of Noah, for instance, it was to build an ark. It was not building the ark that justified Noah; it was his faith. But if he had not built the ark, he would have been showing that he didn't really believe God regarding the flood. He received righteousness when he believed and showed his faith when he built the ark.

(Hebrews 11:7 KJV) By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
For the Old Testament and kingdom believers, their faith was to be shown by adherence to the Law. This does not mean that they could not keep every point of the Law, but that when they did transgress the Law they showed the proper repentance and brought the proper sacrifices, after the crucifixion and resurrection, this also included the propitiatory sacrifice and advocacy of Christ in their behalf.

(1 John 2:1-6 KJV) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: {2} And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. {3} And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. {4} He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. {5} But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. {6} He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
For the kingdom believer, the sacrifice of Christ did not give them liberty to break the Law willfully, but it did make provision for the inadvertent transgressions to which mankind is prone.

(Hebrews 10:26-27 KJV) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, {27} But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
I [Richard Church] don't believe this constitutes a loss of salvation, but rather the willful sin was a sign that the person had never received the righteousness which is of faith. When God says certain actions are worthy of judgment, if they do those things and expect to escape judgment, then they don't really have faith in God.

However, for us today, there is no good work that must be done to show salvation. Faith in and of itself is enough. This is what Paul means when he says:

(Romans 3:24-28 KJV) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: {25} Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; {26} To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. {27} Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. {28} Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Today it is not necessary for us to declare our imputed righteousness by our works, but rather to declare God's righteousness by our faith in the shed blood of Christ as the full and complete payment for our sins. Whereas Israel was justified by faith, and their faith was made perfect by works (James 2:22), we are justified by faith completely apart from any deeds of the Law. Unlike any previous dispensation, in the dispensation of grace, there are no works that must by done to show our faith.

To sum up, salvation is now, and has always been, essentially by grace through faith. What has changed, however, is the required response of true faith.


Title: For by grace you have been saved...
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 15, 2003, 02:09:54 PM
MY GRACE IS SUFFICIENT
2 Corinthians 12:7-10:



And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness." Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong. Amen!

"My Grace Is Sufficient!" Four simple words, but oh the power behind those words. I imagine there is not a one of us who cannot say that they have not encountered those words in their lifetime. How many times have we gone through difficult circumstances and have heard those words, even said them ourselves.

Now we could list all of the chapters and verses in the Bible that describe the word grace, but let's take a look at examples of grace in action in the Bible. David was looked at as a strong king who led many battles that were won for the Lord.

But in a weak moment, he lusted after a married woman, slept with her and she became pregnant. Then he tried to deceive her husband and ended up killing him. The baby that was born out of this affair died and David hit one of the lowest times in his life. But God's grace was sufficient. He experienced forgiveness, and later fathered Solomon who built the Temple in Jerusalem. Jonah was a man chosen of God to prophesy to many people. God told him to go to Nineve hand gave him a message to give to the people of this town. But Jonah in his fear and weakness decided not to go and ended up in the belly of a big fish. But there in that fish, he experienced the grace of the Lord.

God's forgiveness, mercy, and grace flowed in Jonah's life, and he was later able to complete the mission God had given him through the power of the Lord. Here in today's text we read that Paul had a nagging affliction that he had prayed about, asking the Lord to deliver him from it, but instead of the deliverance, he experienced the grace of the Lord.

How many times have we done things out of God's will and experienced the grace of the Lord. We realized our actions, and were cut to the bone because of our disobedience, but after repentance, felt that wonderful grace of God flowing in our lives that turned our weakness into a powerful testimony to that grace.

How many times have we had weak areas of our lives that we knew, believed, and trusted God could touch them, but felt like nothing happened. Surely God has not heard our prayer nor seen our faith. Paul must have felt this way, but through this affliction, this unmoving thorn, he was able to testify to God's sufficient grace.

I am reminded of a story I read about years ago of a young girl named Joni Ericsson. Joni was an up and coming swimming star. She was diving and dived into shallow water, broke her neck and spine, and well, you know the rest of the story.

She was paralyzed from the neck down. For days and months she laid in a stryker bed in the hospital not wanting to live. She felt she had been given a raw deal. Then she began to receive the Lord's ministry, and accepted the changes in her that the Lord was trying to make. She began to grow in her relationship with the Lord and her spirit changed dramatically.

She always had faith that the Lord would heal her and she would one day walk again. But instead of the healing she thought she would surely get, she experienced the grace of God. That sufficient grace in her weak and helpless state enabled her to learn to paint and draw by holding pen, pencils, and brushes in her mouth.

She has become a very well known speaker, author, and artist. She even got married. I remember in her book, that sometime after she was out of the hospital, and had begun some short speaking tours, a little boy came up to her in his wheel chair, and told her how her story had inspired him to keep going.

My grace is sufficient. Words that can calm a troubled heart, when the circumstances would not change. I experienced His sufficient grace when my late husband passed away. It is something that is really indescribable, but the powerful peace that comes with it becomes a testimony for others going through difficult times.

I believe in healing, and I believe in deliverance. I also believe that it is God's choice, and if and when He decides to not heal someone or deliver someone the way we think, He spreads His grace over them. He needs people who are experiencing His grace and power to show the way in difficult situations.

He needs our trials to be a testimony to someone whose trials are greater. We have to be like Joni Ericsson and put it in God's hands, and trust His faithfulness, His mercy, His grace to strengthen us when we are weak. After all, as Jesus said, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is made perfect in weakness."

So whether we are needing to experience God's grace because of something we have done wrong and need His forgiveness and grace to deal with it, or we are in a hard situation that seemingly has no end, it is there for us and free for the asking.

Let us challenge ourselves instead of complaining, murmuring, and feeling sorry for ourselves in a difficult circumstance, to seek and receive God's grace. Let it flow into, through, and out of our lives.

Let these situations become testimonies to His faithfulness, instead of a time to wallow in self pity. Let Him get the glory He deserves. Let us allow our lives to reflect Philippians 4:4-9; Rejoice in the Lord always. Again I will say, rejoice! Let your gentleness be known to all men. The Lord is at hand. Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy--meditate on these things. The things which you learned and received and heard and saw in me, these do, and the God of peace will be with you.