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The Bible gives many examples of signs that should warn us of the coming end of the age.  Six such signs are given by Jesus, two characteristics are given by Paul, and eleven other occurrences are given by the prophets to occur prior to or soon after the end of the age.  While we are also told we will not know the time of the End, God obviously wanted us to know when that time was getting closer.  As the Christian church is increasingly drawn into the interfaith movement, and as more and more churches go into isolation, preparing to sleep through the growing attacks on their faith, perhaps God knew it would take a few signs to wake us up and remind us that we have work to do.  

Unfortunately, many Christians take the verses that tell us we won't know the time of His coming to mean they should ignore any and all scripture that might warn us of this time of tribulation.  Others have fallen into the trap of fearing being labeled a "conspiracy theorist" should they display an interest in the Biblical prophecies about our future on Earth.  My philosophy is simple.  God included it in the Bible and, since God is all knowing, we should trust that it is something we should know and study along with the rest of His Word.  

It is increasingly obvious that the time of our Lord's coming is drawing near.  Prophecy is being fulfilled daily, and at a faster pace than ever before.  Whether you believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, or believe Christians will be witness to the full tribulation, wrath, and final judgments, matters not.  The beginning of birth pains and the signs of the times should have the same effect on all of us.  It should motivate us to save as many souls as we can in the time that we have left.  The Great Commission tells us to be disciples to all nations, bringing the message of salvation through Christ to all people.   If the Church is raptured before the tribulation, it is important that we leave behind an explanation for the trials and judgments those left behind will face.  How else will they recognize the deception of the anti-Christ and seek instead the truth of the Bible?  If we are to endure the tribulation along side them, we will need to be prepared to not only share the message of salvation, but share with them the reasons for God's judgment and hold it up as further proof of their need to be saved.  

Below is a study of the prophetic signs God gave us as a warning of the approaching end of the age.  Many of them are being fulfilled now and many will be fulfilled in the near future.  I would encourage you to study prophecy, know what is coming and be prepared to share it with others.

 Six signs given by Jesus Christ, indicating his coming and the end times.

Matthew 24:3
Jesus was asked, "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age?"  Jesus told his apostles to look for  the following signs prior to his second coming and the end of the age.

1. False Prophets and Christs
Matthew 24:5 "For many will come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and will mislead many."
Matthew 24:11  "And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many."

In the last several years many have claimed to be the Messiah.  Jim Jones and David Koresh are examples of these false christs as well as countless others who are not as newsworthy.  These false prophets are a prelude to the ultimate false christ, the antichrist.  Many New Age groups, some even NGO's working for the United Nations, are anxiously awaiting the antichrist, preparing the way for his acceptance as the head of the hierarchy of gods and the one who will usher in world peace.


2.  WARS
Matthew 24:6  "And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end."

Rumors of wars in all areas of the world now occur frequently thanks to instant media coverage and the availability of a multitude of 24-hour news sources.

Matthew 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes."

More people have been killed in warfare in this century than at any other time in history.  As the death toll rises in the Middle East, more and more countries work feverishly to develop devastating weapons of mass destruction.  Add to that the expanding threat of terrorism and unpredictable dictators such as Saddam Hussein, and the potential for the outbreak of war exists in nations, kingdoms and places across the globe.


3.  FAMINES
Matthew 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes."

As white, Christian farmers are driven out of Africa in increasing numbers, and foreigners move in to replace life-sustaining crops with poppies that now supply 25% of the worlds drugs, famine spreads across the African continent.  The undernourished are not limited to Africa, however.  A large portion of the worlds 5 billion people suffers from a shortage of food.


4.  EARTHQUAKES
Matthew 24:7   "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes."

The number and intensity of earthquakes this century is at a level higher than any other time in history.  A staggering number of seismic events occur around the world daily.

5.  TRIBULATIONS
Matthew 24:8-9 "But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.  Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations on account of my name."

Christians are under attack throughout the world today.  In the United States Christians still enjoy freedom to worship God without suffering much more than ridicule, hatred, or discrimination at work and school.  However in many other countries such as China, Sudan, Africa, Saudi Arabia, Korea, Russia, and many Muslim nations, Christian suffer much greater persecution and often times death for their faith.  During the tribulation this suffering will be worldwide and will continue even to the point of martyrdom.  These first 5 signs will increase in intensity and severity as the tribulation approaches, much like the birth pangs or contractions of a pregnant woman worsen as the delivery time approaches.


6.  THE GOSPEL WILL BE PREACHED THROUGHOUT THE WORLD
Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come."

This prophecy has already been fulfilled through television, radio, missionaries, the translation of the Bible into many languages, and the internet.  People all over the world now hear the message of Christ from missionaries who have the means to travel the globe, and via technology that allows us to communicate with people on the other side of the world right from our own homes, churches and offices.


Two characteristics of the end of the ages from the Apostle Paul

1.  GODLESSNESS IN THE LAST DAYS
II Timothy 3:1-5,7 "But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.  For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of god; holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

For anyone who has watched television, read a newspaper, lost a retirement to corporate greed and corruption, or just walked outside their front door, it is obvious this prophecy has been fulfilled by our generation.  Our leaders are often corrupt; our cities are filled with crime, brutality, and neon signs proclaiming our sinful, godless nature.  The New Age Movement brings in increasing numbers of mystics who claim to be the enlightened ones.  They are some of the most educated and influential people in our societies, and yet the most lacking in real truth.


2.  Apostasy (Falling away from the Faith)

I Timothy 4:1-3  "But the spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.  By means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth."

Churches today are becoming more and more ecumenical, embracing the New Age interfaith agenda, and denying Christ as the only way to salvation.  Giving in to the politically correct media and a corrupt society, they have embrace homosexuality as an acceptable alternate lifestyle and preach tolerance and compromise in place of God's truth for the salvation of the world.  The environmentalist movement within the New Age movement lures them into a worship of mother earth, belief in past lives, reincarnation, and Karma while demonizing all those who would eat the meat God gave us as nourishment for our bodies.

Eleven fulfillments of the Bible Prophecy Required for the  END OF THE AGE
1.  EXISTENCE OF A 200,000,000 MAN ARMY IN THE EAST
Revelation 9:16  "And the number of the armies of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them."

An army of that size had never existed until China's army reached that number in the 1960's.

2.  REDEVELOPMENT OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE (EUROPEAN COMMUNITY)
Daniel 2:32-33  "The head of the statue was made of fine gold, its breast and its arms of silver, its belly and its thighs of bronze, its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay."
Daniel 2:40-43   "Then there will be a fourth kingdom as strong as iron; inasmuch as iron crushes and shatters all things, so like iron that breaks in pieces, it will crush and break all these in pieces.  And in that you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, it will be a divided kingdom; but it will have the toughness of iron, and partly of pottery, so some of the kingdom will be strong and part of it will be brittle.  And in that you saw the iron mixed with clay, they will combine with one another in the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, even as iron does not combine with pottery."

The fourth kingdom of iron is the Roman empire according to Daniel's interpretation of King Nebuchadnezzar's dream.  The two legs are the division of the Roman empire into an eastern portion called the Byzantine empire which ended in the 1400's and a western portion based in Rome which ended in the 400's.  The nations of Europe since the Roman empire dissolved have never adhered or formed one empire but continue as separate nations, however, the European Union now has 25 Member States.

3.  RETURN OF THE ONE PURE LANGUAGE, HEBREW, TO ISRAEL
Zephaniah 3:9 "For then I will return to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent."

Prior to the restoration of Israel in 1948, Hebrew was a dead language.  Now Hebrew is spoken throughout Israel.


4.  REBUILDING OF THE TEMPLE, RESTORATION OF TEMPLE WORSHIP AND ANIMAL SACRIFICES IN JERUSALEM

For several end time prophecies to be fulfilled, the temple will have to be rebuilt.

Revelation 11:2 "Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the oly city for forty-two months."
Daniel 9:27  "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolation, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."
Daniel 9:26  "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary."

Some archeologists believe that the temple mount is actually 340 feet south of the Dome of the Rock site, putting the Dome of the Rock within the Court of the Gentiles.  This may be the court outside the temple that is left out.

There are many groups already working on preparations for the new temple.  The blueprints are already done, the temple garments have been made, and there have already been attempts to lay the cornerstone of the temple.  The only thing standing in the way of the construction of the new temple is Islam's third holiest site, the Dome of the Rock and government support for such an undertaking.  Some possible scenarios for the rebuilding of the temple are as follows:

1.  The persuasion and performing of miracles by the Antichrist and False Prophet convinces the Islamic world to approve the rebuilding.

2.  The United Nations will negotiate the rebuilding of the temple following a war with the armies from the North (Russia and Islamic forces).  This assumes that the war with the armies from the North is not the battle of Armageddon as some feel and that this attack occurs before the rapture or tribulation period begins.  The supernatural destruction of the Russian army and Islamic forces will cause an outpouring of Christian worship and zeal amongst the Jewish people who will reconstruct the temple.

3.  It is determined that the site of the first two temples is actually south of the Dome of the Rock, and the court of the gentiles (Dome of the Rock) will be left out of the 3rd temple.

A group in Israel called the Temple Mount Faithful have obtained most of the clothing, instruments and other equipment required for temple worship and are actively preparing for the laying of the third temple's cornerstone.

5.  APPEARANCE OF THE RED HEIFER AFTER 2000 YEARS
Numbers 19:2-7 "This is the statute of the law which the Lord has commanded, saying, "Speak to the sons of Israel that they bring you an unblemished red heifer in which is no defect and on which a yoke has never been placed.  "You shall give it to Eleazar the priest, and it shall be brought outside the camp and be slaughtered in his presence.  Next Eleazar the priest shall take some of its blood with his finger and sprinkle some of its blood toward the front of the tent of meeting seven times.  "Then the heifer shall be burned in his sight; its hide and its flesh and its blood, with its refuse, shall be burned.  "The priest shall then wash his clothes and bathe his body in water, and afterward come into the camp, but the priest shall be unclean until evening."

A red heifer will be required to be used in the process of purification described in the book of Numbers.  In May 1997 the first Red Heifer was born in 2000 years.  Another red Heifer was born in Israel in March of 2002. Still one more red Heifer was born this year.

6.  INCREASE IN KNOWLEDGE AND TRAVEL
Daniel 12:4  "But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase."

Billy Graham was quoted as saying, "ninety percent of all the engineers and scientists who have ever lived are alive today."  Air travel, space travel, DNA research and human cloning are all examples of the rapid increase in knowledge in our generation.  

7.  RETURN OF THE ETHIOPIAN JEWS TO ISRAEL
Zephaniah 3:10-11  "From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia My worshipers, My dispersed ones, will bring My offerings.  In that day you will feel no shame because of all your deeds by which you have rebelled against Me; For then I will remove from your midst your proud, exulting ones, and you will never again be haughty on My holy mountain."

In 1984, Operation Moses saw the airlift of 15,000 Jews who had already fled to refugee camps in Sudan to escape starvation.  In 1991, Operation Solomon flew 20,000 Jews to Israel from Ethiopia itself.  A further airlift began in June of 1999, aimed at transporting the last 3,000 members of the Quara Jewish community from northeastern Ethiopia to Israel.

8.  THE RISE OF RUSSIA
Ezekiel 38:2,4,8  "Son of man, set your face toward Gog of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him.  I will turn you about and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you out, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them splendidly attired, a great company with buckler and shield, all of them wielding swords.  After many days you will be summoned; in the latter years you will come into the land that is restored from the sword, whose inhabitants have been gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel which had been a continual waste; but its people were brought out from the nations, and they are living securely, all of them."

In order for some end time events to occur Russia will have to be a strong nation with a strong military.  

9.  RETURN OF RUSSIAN JEWS TO ISRAEL
Jeremiah 23:7-8   "Therefore behold, the days are coming declares the Lord, when they will no longer say, as the Lord lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of Egypt, but as the Lord lives, who brought up and led back the descendants of the household of Israel from the north land and from all the countries where I have driven them.  Then they will live on their own soil."

In the 1970's and 1980's there was a mass exodus of Russian Jews out of Communist Russia.  In 1999 the Associated Press reported a dramatic increase in the number of Jewish immigrants from Russia, bringing the largest number of Russian Jews to Israel since the early 1990's.  

10.  TECHNOLOGY FOR THE MARK OF THE BEAST
Revelation 13:16-17   "And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name."

On May 10, three members of a family in Florida became the first people to receive the biochip implant.  Each device, made of silicon and called a VeriChip, is a small radio transmitter about the size of a piece of rice that is injected under a person's skin. It transmits a unique personal ID number whenever it is within a few feet of a special receiver unit. VeriChip's maker describes it as "a miniaturized, implantable, radio frequency identification device (RFID) that can be used in a variety of security, emergency and healthcare applications."

Is the biochip the mark of the beast to be used by the antichrist?  We can't really know.  What is significant is that people are being softened to the idea of a mark or an implant as a means of maintaining security, providing medical information, and regulating a more interdependent world.  As attitudes change, fears subside, and people are convinced of the need for such a mark, the true mark of the beast will be easily introduced to the world by the antichrist.

11.  PLANS FOR THE ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT

The United Nations, World Trade Organization, International Criminal Court, UN peacekeeping/police force, numerous UN NGO's, and other agencies are preliminary steps to the formation of a one world government.  We now have the communications technology, transportation, and the pro-globalization media necessary to usher in the one world government headed by the antichrist.  The increasing terrorist threat and the middle east conflict will only speed up the formation of this governing body as fear and promises of better security make more people willing to give up their national sovereignty for global governance.

12.  INSTANT COMMUNICATION AROUND THE WORLD
Revelation 11:3, 7-10   "And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophecy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.  When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them.  And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.  Those from the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their dead bodies for three and a half days, and will not permit their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb.  And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and celebrate; and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth."

Television and the 24-hour news networks make it possible for people around the world to see the dead prophets and rejoice at their deaths.

Luke 21:28  "But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."
Luke 21:32 "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place."


Now my hands hurt, and I hope I spelt everything correct.

Thanks for the great post.  

Amanda ;D

Oklahoma Howdy to DreamWeaver,

THANKS BROTHER!!!

I'm too tired to study all of this tonight, but I copied it and will study it in detail when I am rested. This was a lot of work, and I appreciate it.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Thank you bep, That was one of my studies I had just finished, when I posted the information.

Yes, I have copied it to disk this time.

That was the best I have ever seen yet!  Extremely appreciated!    

Praise God for all this and for bretheren such as you!

 ;D   iconHis

 When is the book coming out D.W.?

 Great stuff!

Bronzesnake.

Thanks DW.  Just as I have perceived from my studies.
(Plus, I am a big Hal Lindsey fan.)
 ;D

Thanks Bronzesnake, book?? what book?? ???
I have no plans for a book, what I post is free. Why should I write a book and have people pay for it.??? God's words is free in my thinking. ;D

Your welcome JudgeNot, Who is Hal Lindsey?

DW - you definitely aren't a '70s era Jesus freak, are you!   ;D
http://www.hallindseyoracle.com/ (http://www.hallindseyoracle.com/)

No, I had enought worries in the 70's. Nice site though, Judge.

Bumping for The_8th_Person. ;D

With some of the changes that Pres. Putin, just put in place in Russia. We just may be on the dawning, of the age.

Putin uses war on terrorism to tighten grip on democracy
By Julius Strauss in Moscow


President Vladimir Putin announced radical changes to Russia's democratic institutions yesterday that will give the Kremlin greater power than at any time since the fall of the Soviet Union.

In what critics say amounts to a serious setback for Russian democracy, Mr Putin effectively negated the right of citizens to elect a regional representative. Instead, the country's 89 regional governors will be proposed by the president.

President Putin: it will 'make Russia safer and easier to govern'

The former KGB spy also announced that seats in the Duma allocated to single-member constituencies will be scrapped in favour of a fully proportional system.

The move will accord his United Russia party, which can already count on the backing of about two thirds of the deputies in the Duma, even greater control.

The announcement, made in an address to regional governors, follows the school siege in southern Russia that ended with the deaths of more than 300 people, half of them children.

Mr Putin suggested that his initiatives would make Russia safer and easier to govern.

But critics said he was using the terrorist attacks for political purposes. Vladimir Ryzhkov, a liberal deputy who was himself elected in a single-member constituency, said: "Such proposals have nothing to do with fighting terrorism. The Kremlin is simply using the momentum [from the school siege]."

Since coming to power five years ago Mr Putin has made no secret of his admiration for many aspects of the Soviet system. While he has pursued a pro-western foreign policy, he has heavily curbed media freedoms and brought down big businessmen who have challenged the Kremlin.

He has also done much to curb regional autonomy, a reversal of Boris Yeltsin's policy of giving the regions as much sovereignty "as they could swallow".

If, as seems certain, Mr Putin's measures are passed, the Kremlin will propose regional governors whose appointments will then be voted on by regional legislatures. It is unclear what will happen if the Kremlin's candidate is rejected.

Few dispute that many regional governors in Russia are hardly paragons of democracy. Some are corrupt and have formed alliances with unscrupulous businessmen and gangsters who have helped them win their positions.

Most Russians, who anyway associate democracy with the worst excesses of the Yeltsin era, are unlikely to complain about the changes.

But previous moves to curb the power of the regions have done little to raise standards. United Russia has a record of overlooking corrupt and even criminal activity providing that the representative is loyal to the Kremlin.

Dmitry Oreshkin, head of the Mercator analytical group, said: "In reality the governors are not very well controlled by the electorate.

"But it is counter-productive to take the initiative away from the people. The first shoots of democracy are being trampled on. This is a move towards Soviet times."

Vladimir Rimsky, an analyst with the Indem think tank, said the move was part of Mr Putin's established policy of strengthening the central bureaucracy at the expense of local control. But he said he doubted whether they would make events such as the attack on the school less likely.

He said: "The administration in Moscow is unable to see all that is happening in the regions. The Beslan events prove that. Such a vertical power structure cannot be effective in fighting terrorism because it removes all local initiative and requires a long chain of approvals for any decision.

When something like that happens decisions have to be taken quickly." However, others said Mr Putin's moves were understandable in the context of a worsening security situation.

Alexei Pushkov, a member of the Council for Foreign and Defence Policies, said: "Putin's main concern is not the development of democracy, but the enhancement of security."

Other initiatives include the creation of a unified anti-terrorism agency and appointment of a close associate, Dmitry Kozak, to oversee the northern Caucasus, which includes Chechnya, Ingushetia and Northern Ossetia.

Talk about a reversal of democracy, it now sounds like the Old U.S.S.R., is coming back. I know some of you kids don't remember M.A.D., but several of us older ones do. Hopfully its not time to "duck and tuck."

Looking up.
DW

DW:
IMHO there are no OT prophesies being fulfilled today in this dispensation of grace. However, I do believe that events are happening that will lead to the fulfillment of the OT prophesies. This dispensation cannot be found in OT prophesies because it "was kept secret since the world began."

The "endtime" prophesies that we find in the OT will be fulfilled in the Tribulation period. The "endtimes" that Paul speaks of have to do with the ending of the dispensation of grace.

The "entimes" had started in Acts 2:15-20, but were interrupted with the setting aside of the nation of Israel after the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7. They will resume after the rapture of the Chruch.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-9 tells us the the Chruch, the Body of Christ, will not go through the Tribulation.  

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

AMEN to those posts DW..I enjoyied them myself...I couldn't have put it into better words. It reminds me of a sermon i preached about a year ago on the signs of the times...if you guys wouldn't mind, i'd like to post it on here maybe tomorrow or this evening when i get home. It might have a few things to back up what dreamweaver said...it might not...only the Lord knows. well i'm off. God Bless

In Christ,
Joshua

Rev. 9:16 “and the number of the armies of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them.”

The standing army of China reached 200,000,000 during the late ‘60’s, and is still at that level.

Zephaniah 3:9 “For then I will return to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent.”

Following the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, the Jews living in Israel were dispersed to other parts of the Roman Empire. For almost 2,000 years, they remained in the other countries, and Hebrew became a “forgotten” or dead language. Shortly after the return of Jews to Israel in 1948, Hebrew was designated the “official” language of Israel, and is now spoken throughout the country.

Zephaniah 3:10-11 “from beyond the rivers of Ethiopia My worshippers, My dispersed ones, will bring My offerings.”

In 1984, Operation Moses airlifted 15,000 Jews who had fled from Ethiopia  to refugee camps in Sudan back to Israel. In 1991, Operation Solomon flew 20,000 more directly from Ethiopia itself. In June 1999,  an airlift of the last 3000 Jews of the Quara Jewish community in northeaster Ethiopia was begun.

Jeremiah 23:7-8 “therefore behold, the days are coming declares the Lord, when they will no longer say, as the Lord lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of Egypt, but as the Lord lives, who brought up and led back the descendants of the household of Israel from the north land and from all the countries where I have driven them. Then they will live on their own soil.”

During the 1970’s and ‘80’s, there was a mass exodus of Russian Jews. In 1999, there was a dramatic increase in the number of Jewish immigrants from Russia. It continues today (2004) via the "On Wings of Eagles" repatriation program conducted by the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews (IFCJ).

Revelation 13:16-17 “and he causes all, the small and the great, the rich and the poor, free men and the slaves to be give a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.”

May 10, 2003 - three members of a Florida family became the first people to receive a biochip implant, called a VeriChip. It is a small radio transmitter about the size of a grain of rice that is injected under the skin, and transmits a unique personal ID number whenever it is within a few feet of a special receiver unit.

And there are others.

No prophecies being fulfilled?

::)

You are more then welcome to post, your sermon Josh.

BigD posted:
"IMHO there are no OT prophesies being fulfilled today in this dispensation of grace. However, I do believe that events are happening that will lead to the fulfillment of the OT prophesies. This dispensation cannot be found in OT prophesies because it 'was kept secret since the world began.'"

Evangelist responded:
Rev. 9:16 “and the number of the armies of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them.”

The standing army of China reached 200,000,000 during the late ‘60’s, and is still at that level.

BigD replies:
First of all, if you are going to quote me, do it in its entirety to get the context. This dispensation of grace is an unprophesied period of time; So how can you find in it being fulfilled in this dispensation?

We are not living in the time period of the book of the Revelation. Why are you trying to fit us into it? Being China presently has a 200,000,000 man army doesn put us into the Tribulation.  However, It might be an indication that the rapture is not too far off.
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Evangelist goes on:
Zephaniah 3:9 “For then I will return to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent.”

Following the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, the Jews living in Israel were dispersed to other parts of the Roman Empire. For almost 2,000 years, they remained in the other countries, and Hebrew became a “forgotten” or dead language. Shortly after the return of Jews to Israel in 1948, Hebrew was designated the “official” language of Israel, and is now spoken throughout the country.

BigD responds:
The present state of Israel is not restored Israel of Prophesy. Present Israel came into existance through the UN. When God restores Isreal it will be "...from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates" (Genesis 15:18). Also, I do not believe that the dispersed Jews ever forgot their native language.
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Evangeliest continues:
Zephaniah 3:10-11 “from beyond the rivers of Ethiopia My worshippers, My dispersed ones, will bring My offerings.”

In 1984, Operation Moses airlifted 15,000 Jews who had fled from Ethiopia  to refugee camps in Sudan back to Israel. In 1991, Operation Solomon flew 20,000 more directly from Ethiopia itself. In June 1999,  an airlift of the last 3000 Jews of the Quara Jewish community in northeaster Ethiopia was begun.

BigD responds:
Zephaniah 3:8 Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.
9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
10 From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.
11 In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.

It appears to me that the events of Zephaniah 3:10-11 will happen during the Tribulation period, NOT during the dispensation of grace.
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Evangelists continues::
Jeremiah 23:7-8 “therefore behold, the days are coming declares the Lord, when they will no longer say, as the Lord lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of Egypt, but as the Lord lives, who brought up and led back the descendants of the household of Israel from the north land and from all the countries where I have driven them. Then they will live on their own soil.”

During the 1970’s and ‘80’s, there was a mass exodus of Russian Jews. In 1999, there was a dramatic increase in the number of Jewish immigrants from Russia. It continues today (2004) via the "On Wings of Eagles" repatriation program conducted by the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews (IFCJ).

BigD responds:
Jeremiah 23
1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
2 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.
3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.
4 And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD.
5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
8 But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

Presently, I do believe, that there are more Jews living in the United States then are in present day Israel.

Today, Israel is in a set aside condition. God is not dealing with Israel as His favorited people. Today there is no distinction between the Jew and Gentile. So WHY are you trying to fit into an unpophesied dispensation that will happen when God again deals with restsored Israel after the dispensation of grace has ended with the rapture?
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Evangelist continues:
Revelation 13:16-17 “and he causes all, the small and the great, the rich and the poor, free men and the slaves to be give a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.”

May 10, 2003 - three members of a Florida family became the first people to receive a biochip implant, called a VeriChip. It is a small radio transmitter about the size of a grain of rice that is injected under the skin, and transmits a unique personal ID number whenever it is within a few feet of a special receiver unit.

BigD responds:
Then you must think that we are presently in the Tribulation. The book of the Revelation deals with future events during the Tribulation period.
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Evangelist continues:
And there are others.

BigD responds:
BRING THEM ON!!!
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Evangelists asks:
No prophecies being fulfilled?

BigD responds:
Right on. However, there are events happening that will lead to the fulfillment of OT prophesies. THANK GOD the Chruch, the Body of Christ will have been raptured during this time.

God Bless.
Live Well,  Laugh Often,  Love the Lord!

So you are saying that, nothing going to happen till Tribulation.

Excuse me, have you read what this thread is about??

Six signs given by Jesus Christ, indicating his coming and the end times.

Matthew 24:3
Jesus was asked, "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age?"  Jesus told his apostles to look for  the following signs prior to his second coming and the end of the age.
1. False Prophets and Christs
Matthew 24:5 "For many will come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and will mislead many."
Matthew 24:11 "And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many."
2.  WARS
Matthew 24:6  "And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end."
3.  FAMINES
Matthew 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes."
4.  EARTHQUAKES
Matthew 24:7   "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes."
 5.  TRIBULATIONS
Matthew 24:8-9 "But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.  Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations on account of my name."
6.  THE GOSPEL WILL BE PREACHED THROUGHOUT THE WORLD
Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come."

Two characteristics of the end of the ages from the Apostle Paul
1.  GODLESSNESS IN THE LAST DAYS
II Timothy 3:1-5,7 "But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.  For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of god; holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."
2.  Apostasy (Falling away from the Faith)
I Timothy 4:1-3  "But the spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.  By means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth."

 Eleven fulfillments of the Bible Prophecy Required for the  END OF THE AGE
1.  EXISTENCE OF A 200,000,000 MAN ARMY IN THE EAST
Revelation 9:16 "And the number of the armies of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them."
2.  REDEVELOPMENT OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE (EUROPEAN COMMUNITY)
Daniel 2:32-33 "The head of the statue was made of fine gold, its breast and its arms of silver, its belly and its thighs of bronze, its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay."
3.  RETURN OF THE ONE PURE LANGUAGE, HEBREW, TO ISRAEL
Zephaniah 3:9 "For then I will return to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent."
4.  REBUILDING OF THE TEMPLE, RESTORATION OF TEMPLE WORSHIP AND ANIMAL SACRIFICES IN JERUSALEM
For several end time prophecies to be fulfilled, the temple will have to be rebuilt. So far this is one that has not been fulfi;;ed.
5.  APPEARANCE OF THE RED HEIFER AFTER 2000 YEARS
Numbers 19:2-7 "This is the statute of the law which the Lord has commanded, saying, "Speak to the sons of Israel that they bring you an unblemished red heifer in which is no defect and on which a yoke has never been placed.  "You shall give it to Eleazar the priest, and it shall be brought outside the camp and be slaughtered in his presence.  Next Eleazar the priest shall take some of its blood with his finger and sprinkle some of its blood toward the front of the tent of meeting seven times.  "Then the heifer shall be burned in his sight; its hide and its flesh and its blood, with its refuse, shall be burned.  "The priest shall then wash his clothes and bathe his body in water, and afterward come into the camp, but the priest shall be unclean until evening."
6.  INCREASE IN KNOWLEDGE AND TRAVEL
Daniel 12:4  "But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase."
7.  RETURN OF THE ETHIOPIAN JEWS TO ISRAEL
Zephaniah 3:10-11 "From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia My worshipers, My dispersed ones, will bring My offerings.  In that day you will feel no shame because of all your deeds by which you have rebelled against Me; For then I will remove from your midst your proud, exulting ones, and you will never again be haughty on My holy mountain."
8.  THE RISE OF RUSSIA
Ezekiel 38:2,4,8 "Son of man, set your face toward Gog of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him.  I will turn you about and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you out, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them splendidly attired, a great company with buckler and shield, all of them wielding swords.  After many days you will be summoned; in the latter years you will come into the land that is restored from the sword, whose inhabitants have been gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel which had been a continual waste; but its people were brought out from the nations, and they are living securely, all of them."
(This is not fulfilled yet either.)
9.  RETURN OF RUSSIAN JEWS TO ISRAEL
Jeremiah 23:7-8   "Therefore behold, the days are coming declares the Lord, when they will no longer say, as the Lord lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of Egypt, but as the Lord lives, who brought up and led back the descendants of the household of Israel from the north land and from all the countries where I have driven them.  Then they will live on their own soil."
 10.  TECHNOLOGY FOR THE MARK OF THE BEAST
Revelation 13:16-17   "And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name."
11.  PLANS FOR THE ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT
The United Nations, World Trade Organization, International Criminal Court, UN peacekeeping/police force, numerous UN NGO's, and other agencies are preliminary steps to the formation of a one world government.  We now have the communications technology, transportation, and the pro-globalization media necessary to usher in the one world government headed by the antichrist.  The increasing terrorist threat and the middle east conflict will only speed up the formation of this governing body as fear and promises of better security make more people willing to give up their national sovereignty for global governance.
12.  INSTANT COMMUNICATION AROUND THE WORLD
Revelation 11:3, 7-10   "And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophecy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.  When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them.  And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.  Those from the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their dead bodies for three and a half days, and will not permit their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb.  And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and celebrate; and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth."

Except for #4 and #8 all is ready for the end times to start.

DW poste:

BigD rewponds
DW, this is what I was resonding to.

My contention is that Jesus, in Matthew 3-31 is talking about events that will happen during the Tribulation period.

Verses 5-12 speak of some of the seals of Revelation that will happen during the Tribulation. Verse 13 those that endure to the end of the Tribulation will be saved and go into the kingdom. Those that don't will be taken out to judgment as verses 40 and 41 show.

WE ARE NOT LIVING IN THESE TIMES.

At the time that Jesus ministered, the dispensation of the Law was in effect and had been since the Law was given to Moses. During the Tribulation that Jesus does speak about in Matthew 24 will also be in the dispensation of the Law. However, we are not in the dispensation of the Law. The dispensation of grace was still a secret/mystery. You should NEVER read future revelation into past events. That is "wrongly dividing" the Word of truth.

There is nothing in prophesy that mentions "the Body of Christ", the Church for today, and "the rapture of the Church", the Body of Christ. Therefore, you cannot read that into OT prophesy either. It just isn't there.

The "mystery"/"secret" that Paul speaks of had been kept secret "since the world began." That includes EVERYTHING that pertains to the Church for today.

Paul tells us in 1Cor15:51-53 about the "mystery" of the rapture.

Paul speaks of the rapture of believers in 1 Thess 4:13-18. In 5:1-9 Paul tells them, in vs 9, that they will not endure the Tribulation as they have not been appointed unto wrath (The Tribulation) but will be saved (taken out to meet the Lord in the air) by our Lord Jesus Christ. They will have been raptured.

There are many that believe that the "trump" in 1 Thess 4:16 is referring to the 7th trumpet of the book of the Revelation. However, this is not so, because the book of the Revelation was not written until approx AD 90. The book of 1 Thessalonians written in approx AD 54.

This dispensation in which we now live is a ("parenthetical") period within the dispensation of the Law. When this dispensation ends, with the rapture of the Church, THEN the dispensation of the Law will resume.

The Tribulation actually started in Acts 2:15-20 but it to was interrupted, along with the dispensation of the Law, when God set Israel aside, AFTER the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7.

My contension has not changed. There are no OT prophesies being fulfilled today, however, there are events happening today that are leading up to the fulfillment of prophesy.

WE ARE NOT IN THE ENDTIME OF THE FULFILLMENT OF OT PROPHESIES!

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

BigD said

BigD rewponds
WE ARE NOT LIVING IN THESE TIMES.

At the time that Jesus ministered, the dispensation of the Law was in effect and had been since the Law was given to Moses. During the Tribulation that Jesus does speak about in Matthew 24 will also be in the dispensation of the Law. However, we are not in the dispensation of the Law. The dispensation of grace was still a secret/mystery. You should NEVER read future revelation into past events. That is "wrongly dividing" the Word of truth.

Then how do you explain that we are on the edge of the "End Times.

Only 2 prophicies need to be fulfilled for the end times to begin.

REBUILDING OF THE TEMPLE, RESTORATION OF TEMPLE WORSHIP AND ANIMAL SACRIFICES IN JERUSALEM

THE RISE OF RUSSIA
And by some of the changes in Russia, that may be so fulfilled.

Go in peace with God.
DW

BigD responds:
I do not recall ever saying, or implying, that we were on the edge of "End Times." What edge are you referring to, the front edge or the back edge?

Today we are living in the dispensation of grace. This dispensation could end before I finish typing this response or it could go on for another 1,000 years or longer. Every day that we have prior to the rapture is a day of God's grace. It is another day that the unsaved have the opportunity to get saved.

The "end times" (7 year Tribulation) that Jesus speaks about in Matthew 24 started in Acts 2:15-20. It was interrupted when God set the nation of Israel aside, and God ushering in the dispensation through the Apostle Paul. It will resume after the rapture of the Church.

The only thing that has to happen before the Tribulation can again resume is the rapture of the Chruch, the Body of Christ. Then God will once again be dealing with Israel as His favorite people; under the Law.

This is what this whole thread has been about BigD. We are sitting on the front edge of the end times. This is about signs that happen after the dispensation of grace.
I know of one other brother here that will be in tribulation, because of faith.

Love is....................... Jesus Christ.
DW

Hey Ya'll, here's the sermon i asked to post...enjoy

Joshua

A few road signs...

A)   To start off with, would you guys turn with me to 2nd Timothy 3:16. This verse says, “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness”. Another person doesn’t give this inspiration; The Lord, God Almighty, gives it. The Bible has been called a hoax; just a crutch to lean on in times of trouble, but that isn’t so. This has helped me many times, but it’s also convicted my heart many times. This book can morph before your very eyes if you aren’t paying attention. This seemingly lifeless book is, in fact, alive and it’ll give you a spiritual whoopin’, but God will also use this book to heal you spiritually. It’s Alive! Hebrews 4:12 says” For the Lord is quick and powerful and shaper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder(Gift) of soul, and spirit, and of the joints and the marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the Heart. I say this because God speaks to His people through His word. All we have to do is stop and listen. 1 Kings 19:11-12 says: 11And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:12And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.” Just as God spoke to Elijah, He’ll speak to us through His Word. Also, did you know that the Bible is a History book, a poetry book, a book of predictions, a book that can point the way to the Saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, a book of conviction, redemption, and Salvation all rolled into one. You probably did, but now tell me, what other book is there, anywhere in the entire world, that is jammed packed with prophecies that were made 2,500 years ago and are being fulfilled to the tiniest detail before our very eyes. I didn’t think so. There are over 2,000 total prophecies in the Bible dealing with the rebirth of Israel and God’s Plan for the last days, and many have been fulfilled. That is about 1/3 of the Bible devoted to prophecy! God must really be trying to get a message across! I want to tell you right now that these following prophecies aren’t written to scare you, but they are a sort of “road sign” letting us know that we are close to the end” I have researched 11  prophecies that have been fulfilled in the past 55 years that show we are very close to the End.
B)   Let's prove the Bible is true and we are nearing the end of the last generation before Christ returns.
    1. The Jewish people would be scattered worldwide; yet Israel would become a nation again after a long time and at a time the Bible calls the "latter days"-ref Isa 66:8
Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. KJV
Ezek 38:8
After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.  
Against what has appeared to be impossible odds, this prophecy has been fulfilled. It happened as predicted on May 14, 1948 after about 2500 years. That’s 1 out of 1.  
    Note: Israel fell and was destroyed by the Assyrians 722 B.C. and Judah fell to the Babylonians 117 years later, but the city of Jerusalem, which was the capital of Judah at that time fell 19 years after Judah fell, to the Babylonians and thus ended the Jewish Nation of Israel. Since that time, approximately fourteen different peoples have possessed the land of Israel. Yet as the Bible said, the nation of Israel would be reborn. The rebirth of Israel was a key sign, indicating we had entered a time period called the "latter days." It was the beginning of a countdown leading to the Tribulation and culminating with the Battle of Armageddon and the return of Jesus. Along with the fulfillment of this crucial event are over 360 prophecies that would all come together, so we might recognize that the Tribulation is very close at hand. Some of these are listed here. Yet the Bible foretells that most people would not believe these things, despite the overwhelming evidence of the signs from God’s Word being fulfilled exactly as predicted. As people refused to believe the flood was coming in Noah’s time as it says in Matthew 24:37-39 “But as the days of Noah were, so shall the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days bfore the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the Ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be,” so people today willingly choose to disregard the signs of the times.
    2. Israel shall be brought forth in one day, at once-ref Isa 66:8. Prophecy fulfilled-May 14, 1948. That’s 2 out of 2.
    Note: On Nov. 29, 1947, the General Assembly of the U.N. approved a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine. On the morning of May 14, 1948 (the last day of the British mandate), a meeting of the People’s Council took place in Israel to decide on the name of the state and to finalize the declaration. At precisely 4 pm, the proclamation ceremony began at the Tel Aviv museum. The 979 Hebrew words of the Scroll of Independence were read. All stood, and the scroll was adopted. The notorious White Paper, issued by the British in 1930 restricting Jewish immigration, was declared null and void. Members of the People’s Council signed the proclamation. David Ben-Gurion rapped his gavel, declaring, "The State of Israel is established. This meeting is ended." Israel was brought forth as a nation in one day, at once, exactly as predicted. At midnight, the British soldiers and high commissioner would leave. President Truman was swift in announcing U.S. recognition of Israel. The following morning, on May 15, Israel was under attack by the Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese, Jordanian, and Iraqi forces. Yet God protected Israel once again as He promised He would!
    3. Israel would be brought forth (or reborn) "out of the nations"-Ezek 38:8. Prophecy fulfilled-May 14, 1948. That’s 3 out of 3.
    Note: As previously stated, on Nov. 29, 1947, the General Assembly of the "United Nations" approved a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine. This prophecy was perfectly fulfilled. Consider, for centuries the land of Israel had been occupied by many nations. Israel was "brought forth out of the nations"—the children of Israel from many nations have been returning to their ancient homeland. If you can’t see God, Almighty’s hand in this rebirth of a Nation that HE promised to reborn, they you sure ain’t going to see God’s hand right in front of your face showing you that Jesus Christ is the way.
    4. Israel must regain the city of Jerusalem-
Ezek 38:8
After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
Joel 2:32
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. KJV;
Ezek 22:19.
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye are all become dross, behold, therefore I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem.
This happened just as predicted in 1967. That’s 4 out of 4.
Note: The Bible gives us two methods so we would know the time we are in.  One is by Israel’s rebirth. The other, by a precise line of events that would all come together at one time. Israel was reborn on May 14th, 1948. The Bible indicates that from Israel’s rebirth a generation would not pass till all is fulfilled. I’m not setting any date; however, it seems clear from Israel’s rebirth and the signs of the times— that we are living in the generation in which the Rapture and Tribulation will come and catch most people by surprise.  Are you ready?
    5. The Christian church at the time of the end would be lukewarm, neither cold nor hot for Jesus. Prophecy fulfilled. That’s 5 out of 5.
    Note: God will spew them out. Many ministers and people that call themselves a Christian will not be going to heaven. The Bible tells us—you have acquired wealth, but your true condition is wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked and you don’t know it-Rev 3:14-22. This is today’s church. Most preachers use little Scripture, but lots of worldly stories. Many sing a great deal, but put little emphasis on repentance, obeying, serving, and fearing God, on the fruits of the Spirit, Bible prophecy, water baptism by immersion, and studying your Bible faithfully every day. Many are only entertainment centers that teach what their members want to hear not what they need to hear.. Many (so-called Christians) are so lukewarm or dead, they don’t even bring their Bibles with them to the house of God. Some famous ministers and Bible schools think this is the best church age ever, yet the Bible clearly shows it is the worst and most deceived.
    

6.        The Bible gives us over 50 descriptions about the people at the time of the end. These fit thepeople of today perfectly, but did not fit the people of fifty years ago. Here are some:  
     A.   Some would depart from the faith and go into devil worship-1 Tim 4:1. “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.” This is perfect.
    B.   People would mock about the last days and not believe-2 Pe 3:3 “Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promis of his coming? For since the fathers  fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of time. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:” Jude 18 says it this way “How they that told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their on ungodly lusts.”
    C.   People would become lovers of themselves-2 Tim 3:1,2. “Know this that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of themselves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedienct to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away!” Remember the TV commercials—"I do it for me"?
    D.   People would be disobeying their parents-2 Tim 3:1,2.
    E.   People would be grateful for nothing-2 Tim 3:1,2.
    F.   Homosexuality would increase-Lk 17:28,30; ref Gen 19:5; Ro 1:24,26,27.
    G.   People would be without self-control in sex-2 Tim 3:1,2,6; Rev 9:21, Lk 17:28,30; Jude 7. Is this not the great sex generation?
    H.   People would love pleasures more than God-2 Tim 3:1,2,4. This is true. Shall we go on a picnic, watch football, or sleep. Church?—we can go another time. Our American motto "In God we trust" has become a joke. Remember, these were all predicted centuries ago as part of the signs that we are at the time of the end.\
    7. There would be weapons that could destroy the world-
Mark 13:20
And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
Rev 6:8
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Rev 9:18
By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths
Zech 14:12
And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Malachi 4:1
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
KJV
Incredibly, this prophecy was written in the days of spears and arrows, yet today it is true.  That’s 7 out of 7.
    Note: It is estimated that the combined nuclear arsenals of the USA and Russia (as of the year 2002) could kill every living thing on earth 6 times over.

    8. The Gospel must be published in all the world-
Mark 13:10
And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the Kingdome shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; then shall the end come.
 This seemingly impossible prophecy was written when there was no printing press, but today it is true. That's 8 out of 8.
    Note: In this last generation, to our knowledge, the Gospel is being
published (or is about to be published) in the primary language of every nation of the world or "among all nations." In addition, the Gospel is available by short-wave radio nearly everywhere in the world.
     9. In the "latter days" when Israel was once again a nation, there would be a great military power to the extreme north of Israel in the land of Magog (which is modern-day Russia)-
Ezek 38:2-4,8,15,16. Incredible. That’s 9 out of 9.
2Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords: After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them. And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army: And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.
 Note: How could the Bible have foretold the location of this nation, facts about its military, and even the time period it would come to pass and tell what nations would be allied with Russia? As was already said in Lk 24:25-O FOOLS, AND SLOW OF HEART TO BELIEVE ALL THAT THE PROPHETS HAVE SPOKEN.

    10. There would be a nation to the far east of Israel, to the end of the earth. This nation would have an army of 200 million. This is astounding. How could the Bible have told the location of a nation and given such a huge figure regarding the size of its army nearly 2000 years ago? China has boasted that they could field an army of this exact figure. That’s 10 out of 10.
Rev 16:12
12And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Rev 9:16-17
16And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
11. There would be an economic alliance of the nations of the Old Roman Empire. It would have a military capability. This is an exact description of the European Economic Community today (the EEC), which has already adopted the one-currency system for many of their member nations. The Euro, as it is called, has been introduced and accepted by many countries of the world. It is written, IN THE DAYS OF THESE KINGS (these nations, which is now) SHALL THE GOD OF HEAVEN SET UP A KINGDOM-Dan 2:44. That’s 11 out of 11.  We have just reached the point that seemed impossible—11 perfect predictions made thousands of years ago—with God nothing is impossible.  Certainly, at this point, even the biggest skeptic should see the Bible is true, there is a God, and we are nearing the time of the end. The times spoken up in the Bible are here.

Now tell me, which of you can make 11 predictions about 2000 years in the future and include the rebirth of a specific nation and exactly how it would be reborn. Include specific nations that would exist and certain nations that would be allied together, and the exact size of a nation’s army. Include what the people and church would be like. Also include the names of actual cities and name certain crops and fruit trees that would exist. Do eleven straight prophecies and be exactly correct on every single one. The Bible not only does this eleven times, but hundreds of times with absolute, perfect accuracy.  That is the beauty of it. None of us can do that. Only the Bible can. It is estimated that a person had a 1 in 8x10 to the 63rd power of doing that. You have a better chance at winning the lottery. Like that is going to happen.
·   Now the next thing that’s going to happen, and you don’t have to be a prophet or anything to see this one, is Christ the Lord is going to come back and Rapture His true Church. His Children. So my question to you is are you ready. Will you be ready so that when Jesus comes and says “Let’s Roll” you will be able to go with Him?   See Jesus on the Cross at Calvary for us. Envision this and use your imagination. Watch with your mind’s eye. The medical world, to this day still says that the crucifixion is still the worst method of torture and death ever to be invented. Imagine that. Jesus Christ, because He loved you and I suffered the worst death in the world. The greek word for love is Agape which means unconditional love. His love is still unconditional to this very day and will never die. It was because of His love for you, He suffered through the most gruesome pain and death, all for you and me. He loves you and wants to live inside of you. He wants you to depend on Him and love Him back with the same love and grace that He has extended to you. You see all it took to bridge the Gap between God and us was with a crown of thorns, 2 boards and 3 nails and the Blood of Jesus. The gift of salvation is His free gift to you. It’s your choice whether to accept it or not. It’s like my mom tells me sometimes, there ain’t nothing free in this world, and I look at her and say “Jesus’ gift is free.”

now keep in mind...this was written a year ago so i still have quite a bit to add to it...i hope it made sense...cause i ain't got time to re-read it...i just gotdone with a bio project that about whooped my tail...:) good night and God Bless.

AMEN BROTHER JEMIDON2004!!!!

The Holy Bible isn't just a beautiful literary masterpiece. It is the WORD OF GOD in all perfection. I love to study the Holy Bible, and I really enjoyed your posts.

THANKS BROTHER!

Love In Christ,
Tom

AMEN!! Thank you for posting your sermon, Jemidon. I learned a few things I didn't know, thank you.
Your sermon is................. WONDERFUL!!

For in the Lord I trust.
DW

Jemidon2004
I have read the first posting on your sermon, but have not read the rest as yet. You have put in a great deal of work into it, and for a 17 year old to do that, you have done a lot of studying. For that, I commend you.

While I was reading it, you brought to my mind the teachings of Jack Van Impe. You, like he, like to put today's happening into OT prophesy and the book of the Revelation. To do that, you must take ONLY selected verses to made them fit.

In my possession I have a booklet written by Jack Van Impe that he wrote in the early 1970's. We had gas shortages and extremely high inflation and interest rates. He equated them with Germany's financial problems during WWII and how they fit in prophesy and the "end time." Based on that, he made predictions, that fit OT prophesy, that would come happen in the 1980's. Well, they never happened. He is still saying many of the same things today that he said back then and how they are fulfilling OT prophesy. Interesting listening but that is all I get from him.

When I read the book of the Revelation, I find that what John is writing about is history to him, but still future to us. He is shown the thing that must come to pass during the "last days"/"end times." Everything he see, is the fulfillment of everything that is written about in prophesy. Prophesy ONLY applies to the nation of Israel. I cannot find the Body of Christ in it anywhere. In order to find the Church for today in the book of  the Revelation, one has to figure out a way to do that that isn't Scriptural.

When I study prophesy, I cannot find the dispensation of grace, or the Chruch, the Body of Christ. It was a mystery/secret that God revealed to the Apostle Paul, AFTER God set the nation of Israel aside.  So, God is not dealing with Israel presently, but is dealing with all mankind on equal footing and without distinction. We are "The New Creation", the "one new man" of Epehsians 2:15. IT CANNOT BE FOUND IN PROPHESY OR THE BOOK OF THE REVELATION. During the happenings of the book of the Revelation, the Chruch, the Body of Christ will be in heaven, therefore, we have no place in the book of the Revelation. We are not there yet.

Keep in mind that the  "last days"/"end times" include from the Tribulation through the mellennial reign of Christ.

The OT prophest saw all the particulars of Christ's 1st and 2nd coming, but often preceived them as one event.

In Luke 4:18-20 "Jesus said "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the broken hearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, TO PREACH THE ACCEPTABLE YEAR OF THE LORD. And he closed the book..." Vs 21 "...This day is this scripture fulfilled in your eyes.

Jesus is reading from Isaiah 61:1-2. "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the open of the prison to them that are bound; TO PROCLAIM THE ACCEPTABLE YEAR OF THE LORD, AND THE DAY OF VENGEANCE OF OUR GOD; to comfort all that mourn."

In Luke 4, notice the point at which Jesus "closed the book". It was between the phrase "TO PREACH THE ACCEPTABLE YEAR OF THE LORD" and "THE DAY OF VENGEANCE OF OUR GOD".

Had Jesus read the 2nd phrase, He would not have been able to say "...This day is this scripture fulfilled in your eyes." Because "THE DAY OF VENGEANCE
OF OUR GOD" (the Tribulation) wasn't happening yet. It is still future. So only part of Isaiah 61:2 has already been fulfilled and we are still waiting for the fulfillment of the remainder of that verse.

IMHO, the dispensation of grace fits right between the 1st and 2nd phrase of Isaiah 61:2. Also, you say that Isaiah 68:8 was fulfilled in 1948. Well I don't think so. If you continue your study in Isaiah from chapter 61 on, you will find that it is only speaking of the restoration of Isreal during the Tribulation period and by the time we get to chapter 68, we are in the millennium. NOT 1948.

Again, when I study the book of Ezekiel, which you reference, It is not talking about anything that will happen during the dispensation of grace, but will happen in "the end time"/"the last days."

When Paul speaks of the "last days" he is talking about the last day of the Chruch, the Body of Christ, prior to the rapture. The days we are presently living in. When he refers to the "trump of God" in 1Thess4:16 he is not referring to the last trumpet of the book of Revelation. The book of the Revelation was written by John in Approx AD 90 and Paul wrote his letter to the Thessalonians in approx AD 54. Paul was no longer on the sene when John wrote his book.

Before I go any further, CORRECT ME if I am wrong. I am still in the learning mode.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord.

AMEN! Jemidon2004

Great Sermon!

Grace and Peace!

Hiya Big...

i just read your post so i'm gonna take a minute to clear a few things up. There's a major difference between Impe and me. Jack tends to drift more toward catholic doctrine when it concerns Prophecy, I don't...i take it straight from God's Word. another thing is Impe makes predictions...i disagree with making predictions because with prophecy we cannot always be 100% sure what the form or event will spark the fulfillment. now keep in mind that I wrote that about a year and a half ago. It was a lot of studying, but it isn't nearly what I have now that i would like to add to it. John was writing down the Revelation of Christ. When He includes the churches...back then he talks about seven actual churchs...but if you pay close attention to church history you can find many similarities between the attitudes and the works of the seven churchs and the different phases the Church (Believers) have passed through. and I honestly believe that the stage we're in is VERY similar to that of the state of the church at Laodicea as you have read in my previous post. Another thing....God IS dealing with Israel as a physical nation, but not as a Spiritual nation yet. He's dealing with bringing the Jews back to Israel and the physical aspect of the nation, not the Spiritual state. I believe He will deal with the spiritual state of Israel after the Tribulation begins..not before hand. So yes God IS dealing with Israel, just not on a spiritual level...YET. lol. I made a mistake in saying that it was fulfilled completely in 1948. It was only partially fulfilled. Israel was brought forth to be a nation overnight practicallly. Also remember, that there were to be birth pangs before the end. I believe we are seeing these birth pangs, BUT the world isn't seeing the Trib. Period yet because the Rapture hasn't occured and antichrist hasn't signed the covenant with many for one week. You made mention of Paul using the phrase last days as speaking of the last days of the Church, i agree, but again, one must entertain the thought that John could have used the same meaning...I can't say 100% that i'm right on this, but i think i remember someone commenting that Paul and John both used the same word for "last days" or "beginning of end of time" Now i could be wrong, but for some reason that comes to memory...i reckon i best get back to studying and see what I can find out...i'll look into the greek and get back to ya on that. well i've about run out of things to say so i'm gonna head out...we got a pep rally at the school here in a little while...God Bless.

In His Service,
Joshua


oh yea...p.s. TY for the encouragement DW and BEEPS. I appreciate it...Like i said that stuff was written about a year and a half ago, but the message is still the same...He's coming and He's coming soon...(For those of you who like to start something...I AIN"T PUTTING A TIME TABLE ON IT!!!) Just thought i'd clear that up. :)

God Bless

Jemidon2004:

BigD posted:
"While I was reading it, you brought to my mind the teachings of Jack Van Impe. You, like he, like to put today's happening into OT prophesy and the book of the Revelation. To do that, you must take ONLY selected verses to made them fit.

When I compared you to Jack Van Impe, I was only comparing you to the fact that you use "selected verses" to prove you point. You are not quoting them in their proper context.

You must ALWAYS keep in mind that John is writing about events that take place during the Tribulation. Well, during the Tribulation period, the Chruch, the Body of Christ, will have been raptured to heaven. So how could John be writing to the Chruch, the Body of Christ. Doesn't he address the 7 churchs that are in Asia (Revelation 1:4)? The Body of Christ certainly won't be in Asia. Also, John is writing by Divine inspiration, and John is actually seeing the "last days" of prophesy.

Israel is presently in a "set aside" condition. It is a temporary condition "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (Romans 11:25). The fulness of the Gentiles is the rapture of the Chruch. THEN "And so all Isreal will be saved; as it is written..." (vs 26).

That should tell you that God is not dealing with national Israel at this time. Also, God's promise to Abram is that the nations of the earth will be blessed THROUGH his seed - Israel.

We Gentiles are not being blessed THROUGH the nation of Israel, but we are being blessed in spite of their rejection of their King and His Kingdom. Is Isaiah 42:6 being fulfilled today? How about Isaiah 49:6? Is Isaiah 60:3 being fulfilled?
Are we living in the day of Zechariah 8:23? I don't think so.

Today, in this dispensation of grace, we are not being blessed because of the Jews as a nation. We are being blessed through the preaching of the gospel of the grace of God, according to the revelation of the mystery, that was revelated to the Apostle Paul. BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH and NOT UNDER THE LAWS OF MOSES.

It was man, (through the UN), not God, who is responsible for the present state of the Jewish nation, and there are Jews returning to the Land. However, when I read the OT prophets it says that God will restore the Land to Israel. When God does restore the land to Israel it will be in accordance with Genesis 15:18 "...from the river of Egypt (Nile) unto the great river, the river Euphartes." IMHO God is not giving it back to them by bits and pieces, or having to negotiate it with the Palistiannians. My God is much greater then that.

When God restores Isreal Jeremiah 31:31-34 will be fulfilled and God will be dealing with Israel again both physically and spiritually. The promise to Abram will then be fulfilled.

John and Paul may have used the same word for last days. That would not be a surprise to me. But, they are both speaking of different last days. Paul is speaking about times in the "last days" of this dispensation of grace, and John is speaking of the "last days" that will occur in the Tribulation and mellennial reign of Christ. Its the same words with the same meaning. They are just speaking of different last days.

Have been enjoying our exchange.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

BigD:

Let's try to apply a little logic and reason.

I think you'll agree that there are certain conditions spoken of in scripture that must be "in place", or at least partially fulfilled before the tribulation period actually begins.

One is that there will be a peace treaty signed between the antichrist and the nation of Israel.

For the nation to sign a peace treaty, it must exist.

That the nation of Israel now exists is a given....regardless of HOW it exists.

You try to apply the reasoning that it exists only because of a man (via the UN), and that it further does not encompass ALL of the land spoken of in Genesis.

God USED a man (many times) to accomplish chastisement and punishment of Israel, just as He used men to restore Israel after their punishment was over. Examples are Nebuchadnezzar, Darius, Nehemiah and Artaxerxes. You'll also recall that it took Nehemiah a number of years to complete his task of restoration, which certainly indicates that God's prophetic word can, and will be done over a period of time that is NOT subject to our interpretation.

While Israel may have been "set aside" during the times of the Gentiles, they have neither been ignored, nor forgotten.

I don't believe anyone here has presented the idea that we are currently in the tribulation period...ONLY that there are certain events, verifiable in prophecy, that are in flux and movement toward that final stage.

You seem to present the notion that NONE of the OT prophecies can possibly come to pass, or even begin to come to pass, until the tribulation begins. I would submit that that is not only unreasonable, but goes a long way to attempting to put God in a box, bound from accomplishing His purpose in whatever way He sees fit.  I really don't think you believe that, but the presentation certainly leaves that impression.

Finally, in re other OT prophecies, you said "BRING IT ON". I would ask "why?", if your approach is to categorically deny that any OT prophecies could possibly be fulfilled during this dispensation of grace?

Remember, if you will, the words of Jesus when He told His disciples who had been admiring the Temple that it would be torn down. That was in roughly 32/33 AD.  Paul, who introduced (by your reckoning) the Gospel of Grace and this current dispensation, died in roughly 64 AD.

The Temple was torn down in 70 AD.  An 'OT' prophecy (given under the dispensation of the law) fulfilled 32 years later (under the dispensation of grace).

It is immaterial to the subject at hand as to whether or not any of the OT prophets saw, knew, or understood anything at all about the dispensation of Grace....certainly it would be fair to assume that God did, and He is the one who told the prophets what to say... He did NOT require them to understand, and obviously didn't give them revelation concerning it....but that in no way compromises the revelation, the prophecy, or its ultimate fulfillment.

BTW...the rending of the veil in the Temple. As Paul put it, it was the "tearing down of the wall of partition" between man and God, between Jew and Gentile, making access to God personally available to everyone. The "making of twain one for Himself". (Eph. 2:12-19)

Evangelist posted:
Let's try to apply a little logic and reason.

I think you'll agree that there are certain conditions spoken of in scripture that must be "in place", or at least partially fulfilled before the tribulation period actually begins.

BigD responds:
IMHO the ONLY thing that must happen before the Tribulation that started in Acts 2:15-20, and was interrupted with the setting aside of the nation Israel, is the rapture of the Chruch, the Body of Christ.
------------------------------------------------

Evangelist posted:
One is that there will be a peace treaty signed between the antichrist and the nation of Israel.

BigD responds:
There was not a peace treaty with the anti-christ signed when the Tribulation started, So why does there have to be one when it resumes?
-------------------------------------------------

Evangelist posted:
For the nation to sign a peace treaty, it must exist.

BigD responds:
The nation of Isreal does exist now, but it is not restored Isreal. Also, after the rapture of the Church, the Body of Christ, God will be dealing the sealed 144,000  mentioned in Revelation 7:4-8.
------------------------------------------

Evangelist posted:
That the nation of Israel now exists is a given....regardless of HOW it exists.

BigD responds:
Agreed.
-------------------------------------------

Evangelist posted:
You try to apply the reasoning that it exists only because of a man (via the UN), and that it further does not encompass ALL of the land spoken of in Genesis.

BigD responds:
It's a fact that the nation of Isreal exist because of the UN. It is not the restored Israel of prophesy and does not encompass the land that God promised Abram.
--------------------------------------------

Evangelist posted:
God USED a man (many times) to accomplish chastisement and punishment of Israel, just as He used men to restore Israel after their punishment was over. Examples are Nebuchadnezzar, Darius, Nehemiah and Artaxerxes. You'll also recall that it took Nehemiah a number of years to complete his task of restoration, which certainly indicates that God's prophetic word can, and will be done over a period of time that is NOT subject to our interpretation.

BigD responds:
I don't really have a problem with you above statement. I will just say, when God blessed Isreal; it was when Isreal did God directed. Isreal was punished when they strayed from God. Yes God did use man to fulfill his punishment.
----------------------------------------------

Evangelist posted:
While Israel may have been "set aside" during the times of the Gentiles, they have neither been ignored, nor forgotten.

BigD responds:
You are certainly right when you say that God has not forgotten Isreal. He remembers His promises to them and He will keep them. However, no promises that God made to Isreal are being fulfilled today, other then the fact that God gave the "slumbering eyes."
-----------------------------------------------

Evangelist posted:
I don't believe anyone here has presented the idea that we are currently in the tribulation period...ONLY that there are certain events, verifiable in prophecy, that are in flux and movement toward that final stage.

BigD responds:
Without going back to check, I do believe that some were posting that OT prophesies were being fulfilled today in this dispensation of grace. My contention is that they are not. However, there are events happening today that will lead to the fulfillment of prophesy.
----------------------------------------------------

Evangelist posted:
You seem to present the notion that NONE of the OT prophecies can possibly come to pass, or even begin to come to pass, until the tribulation begins. I would submit that that is not only unreasonable, but goes a long way to attempting to put God in a box, bound from accomplishing His purpose in whatever way He sees fit.  I really don't think you believe that, but the presentation certainly leaves that impression.

BigD posted:
My contention is this. There are no OT pophesies being fulfilled in this dispensation of grace. The things that are prophesied in that OT that pertain to the "last days"/"end times", will happen in the "last days"/"end times". WE ARE NOT IN THOSE DAYS. The "last days"/"endtimes" started in Acts 2:15-20. They were interrupted. They will not resume again UNTIL the rapture of the Chruch, the Body of Christ.

I hate to keep repeating myself, but you haven't SHOWN ME were I am wrong. You only tell me what you believe.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Evangelist posted:
Finally, in re other OT prophecies, you said "BRING IT ON". I would ask "why?", if your approach is to categorically deny that any OT prophecies could possibly be fulfilled during this dispensation of grace?

BigD responds:
Well you seemed to indicate that there were many more OT prophesied that were fulfilled in this dispensation; when you really haven't shown me even one. So, If there are more OT prophesies that you believe were fulfilled in this dispensation, I envite you to "bring them on."
---------------------------------------------------------

Evangelist posted:
Remember, if you will, the words of Jesus when He told His disciples who had been admiring the Temple that it would be torn down. That was in roughly 32/33 AD.  Paul, who introduced (by your reckoning) the Gospel of Grace and this current dispensation, died in roughly 64 AD.

The Temple was torn down in 70 AD.  An 'OT' prophecy (given under the dispensation of the law) fulfilled 32 years later (under the dispensation of grace).

BigD responds:
I don't ever recall reading in prophesy what Jesus said in Matthew 24:1-3 about the Temple being torn down. If I am wrong in that area, PLEASE correct me. Yes, what Jesus said did happen in 70 AD.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Evangelist posted:
It is immaterial to the subject at hand as to whether or not any of the OT prophets saw, knew, or understood anything at all about the dispensation of Grace....certainly it would be fair to assume that God did, and He is the one who told the prophets what to say... He did NOT require them to understand, and obviously didn't give them revelation concerning it....but that in no way compromises the revelation, the prophecy, or its ultimate fulfillment.

BigD responds:
The dispensation of grace was not an after thought, but what God planned it before the world was created, and kept it a secret/mystery until it was revealed to the Aposlte Paul. It was His secret weapon to defeat satan.

One cannot find the cross and what it will do in any OT prophesies. 1Cor2:7,8 "But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdome, which God ordained before the world (before creation) unto our glory: Which none of the princes of the world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory."

It was the cross that defeated satan. Had he know that the cross would seal his doom, he would have "worked like the devil" to keep Christ from the cross.
--------------------------------------------------------

Evangelist posted:
BTW...the rending of the veil in the Temple. As Paul put it, it was the "tearing down of the wall of partition" between man and God, between Jew and Gentile, making access to God personally available to everyone. The "making of twain one for Himself". (Eph. 2:12-19)

BigD responds:
I cannot find anywhere in Scripture where the Temple veil was the middle wall of partition between the Jew and Gentile. That wall of partition was in place prior to the Temple ever being built. Hope you can come up with better "proof text" then that. Even after the veil was wrent, it was still unlawful for a Jew to go to one of another country. This was confirmed by Peter in Acts 10:28. That was at least 5-10 years AFTER the cross.

Looking forward to you reply.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord.

Brother BIGD, you get"TWO"Thumbs UP :)

             AMEN!!!!





          WHAT DO YOU SEE?






(http://members.aol.com/crusader1s/jesus4.art)

JESUS

THANKS brother.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

I'm glad you said IMHO.
Since the tribulation (aka the time of Jacob's trouble, etc.) is conditioned upon the treaty (see Dan. 9:27), it would then appear that any supposition on your part that the tribulation began when you say it did is a false supposition and is NOT based upon scripture.   

Is it land that makes a nation?

Is it the blood line of the people?

When were the  Israelies  not a nation?

Will Israel become more of a nation if they aquireget all the land God gave to Abe?

 

Evangelist posted:
Let's try to apply a little logic and reason.

I think you'll agree that there are certain conditions spoken of in scripture that must be "in place", or at least partially fulfilled before the tribulation period actually begins.

BigD responds:
IMHO the ONLY thing that must happen before the Tribulation that started in Acts 2:15-20, and was interrupted with the setting aside of the nation Israel, is the rapture of the Chruch, the Body of Christ.

Evangelist replies:
I'm glad you said IMHO.

BigD answers:
Can you name some other event that must happen prior to the rapture of the Church? Please give Scriptural support for your answer.

------------------------------------------------

Evangelist posted:
One is that there will be a peace treaty signed between the antichrist and the nation of Israel.

BigD responded:
There was not a peace treaty with the anti-christ signed when the Tribulation started, So why does there have to be one when it resumes?

Evangelist replied:
Since the tribulation (aka the time of Jacob's trouble, etc.) is conditioned upon the treaty (see Dan. 9:27), it would then appear that any supposition on your part that the tribulation began when you say it did is a false supposition and is NOT based upon scripture.  

BigD answers:`
Acts 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16. But THIS IS THAT which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17. And it shall come to pass in the last days (Tribulation), saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and you young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18. And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will ppour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy;
19. And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneith; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20.The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

Peter at Pentecost is quoting Joel 2:28-32 almost word for word. Joel 2 is speaking of the 70th week of Dainel, the Tribulation. Here in Acts 2, the signs are beginning to appear.

There was no peace treaty with the anti-christ signed.

Don't bother to tell me that Peter was mistaken. Peter knew exactly where he was in the timetable of prophesy. In Luke 24:45 we see that Jesus had opened up the understanding of the Scriptures (Old Testament Scriptures), prior to His returning to heaven. Also, Peter and the others, at Pentecost, were speaking "AS THE SPIRIT GAVE THEM UTTERANCE" (Acts 2:4).

-------------------------------------------------

Evangelist posted:
For the nation to sign a peace treaty, it must exist.

BigD responds:
The nation of Isreal does exist now, but it is not restored Isreal. Also, after the rapture of the Church, the Body of Christ, God will be dealing the sealed 144,000  mentioned in Revelation 7:4-8.

Evangelist replies:
Israel regathered is Israel restored (at least in part). That's called a fait accompli. What does the sealing of 144,000 have to do with this?

That the nation of Israel now exists is a given....regardless of HOW it exists.

BigD answers:
Jesus told the leaders of Israel in Matthew 22:43 "Therefore I say unto you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

In the Tribulation period we find that Isreal is represented by members of the 12 tribes. The sealed 144,000 of Revelation 7:4-8. There fruit is mentioned in vs 9.
------------------------------------------

Evangelist posted:
You try to apply the reasoning that it exists only because of a man (via the UN), and that it further does not encompass ALL of the land spoken of in Genesis.

BigD responds:
It's a fact that the nation of Isreal exist because of the UN. It is not the restored Israel of prophesy and does not encompass the land that God promised Abram.

Evangelist responds:
There are a number of times during history when Israel did not occupy all of the lands promised to Abraham.....so? Does that then mean that they weren't Israel? I would guess, by this logic, that David was not really King of Israel for 17 years. Is that right?

BigD answers:
In the OT when Isreal was driven from the land it was due to punishment. God did not discontinue His dealing with them as His favored people. During this dispensation of grace, God is not dealing with Isreal as His favored people or as a nation.

--------------------------------------------

Evangelist posted:
God USED a man (many times) to accomplish chastisement and punishment of Israel, just as He used men to restore Israel after their punishment was over. Examples are Nebuchadnezzar, Darius, Nehemiah and Artaxerxes. You'll also recall that it took Nehemiah a number of years to complete his task of restoration, which certainly indicates that God's prophetic word can, and will be done over a period of time that is NOT subject to our interpretation.

BigD responds:
I don't really have a problem with you above statement. I will just say, when God blessed Isreal; it was when Isreal did God directed. Isreal was punished when they strayed from God. Yes God did use man to fulfill his punishment.

Evangelist replies:
Agreed. Simple and straightforward. God uses man to accomplish His purpose. While some may here think this is almost blasphemous, I'll venture to say it anyway. God used Hitler and Stalin to accomplish His purpose in re-awakening humanity to the existence of His chosen people, and by that awakening to further accomplish His purpose in beginning the movement to regather His people and re-establish Israel.  NOTE: I DID NOT say God CAUSED Hitler or Stalin to commit genocide....only that He USED their actions.  "ALL things work together for the good of them who love the LORD."

BigD answers:
I concur with what you have posted. However, God used man (UN) to restore the present nation of Israel. It still is not "restored Israel".
----------------------------------------------
Cont'd PART 2

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!Evangelist posted:

PART 2

Evangelist posted:
While Israel may have been "set aside" during the times of the Gentiles, they have neither been ignored, nor forgotten.

BigD responds:
You are certainly right when you say that God has not forgotten Isreal. He remembers His promises to them and He will keep them. However, no promises that God made to Isreal are being fulfilled today, other then the fact that God gave the "slumbering eyes."

Evangelist replies:
Key in on the word "being", as in: transitory, transitional, in the process of, etc.

BigD answers:
OT prophesies are not "being" fulfilled today, however, events are happening that will lead to the fulfillment of OT prophesies.
-----------------------------------------------

Evangelist posted:
I don't believe anyone here has presented the idea that we are currently in the tribulation period...ONLY that there are certain events, verifiable in prophecy, that are in flux and movement toward that final stage.

BigD responds:
Without going back to check, I do believe that some were posting that OT prophesies were being fulfilled today in this dispensation of grace. My contention is that they are not. However, there are events happening today that will lead to the fulfillment of prophesy.

Evangelist replies:
First, I'm not speaking for others....only myself. Second, your phraseology "there are events happening.....that will LEAD to....fullfillment..." is no different from saying that there are events happening that are PART OF the playing out, completion, or eventual fullfillment of those prophecies. NONE of the prophecies are going to magically and instantly appear as fulfilled in the blink of an eye (except for our translation..hehe).....they are an on-going process.

Just for a moment...let's take one small example, that being the "mark" of the beast, and buying/selling. At no time in recorded history has the ability, or technology of humankind been capable of allowing such a thing to come to pass until just a few years ago. While the "mark" has not been imposed as yet, the technology is now available, so that when the beast decides to impose it, it can be done.  True, the particular prophecy concerning the mark has NOT come to pass (it is still unfulfilled), the existence of the technology means that a small portion of the prophecy (causes them to take the mark so that no man can buy or sell without it) HAS been fulfilled.

Almost ALL prophecy is made up of a number of smaller segments...and some of those segments can, and are, either being fulfilled or ARE fulfilled.

Apply the same reasoning to the 200 million man army.  They haven't marched, but they are there...just waiting.

BigD answers:
Paul speaks about the condition of the world prior to the time of the rapture. Yet, we cannot say that the rapture is going to happen in the very near future. It is quite possible that it will, and it could be that it won't happen for another 1,000 years, or more, from now.

How does this dispensation of grace fit into you fulfillment of OT prophesy? Can you find this dispensation of grace in prophesy?

My Bible tells me that the time clock of OT prophesy has stopped during this dispensation of grace.

Just because there are modern inventions that are available that are capable for the "mark" of the beast to know who is buying and selling doesn't mean that they will be used during the Tribulation. When the Tribulation happens, there may be even better methods of doing it then what we have today.

Yes China does have a 200,000,000 man Army. Who is it fighting today. They aren't doing anything to fulfill the prophesy in the book of the Revelation. I'm not saying they won't. The 200,000,000 million man Army could also be made up of group of nations that belong to the UN or those nations in the Common Market of Europe. I haven't read about China in the book of Revelation.

----------------------------------------------------

Evangelist posted:
You seem to present the notion that NONE of the OT prophecies can possibly come to pass, or even begin to come to pass, until the tribulation begins. I would submit that that is not only unreasonable, but goes a long way to attempting to put God in a box, bound from accomplishing His purpose in whatever way He sees fit.  I really don't think you believe that, but the presentation certainly leaves that impression.

BigD posted:
My contention is this. There are no OT pophesies being fulfilled in this dispensation of grace. The things that are prophesied in that OT that pertain to the "last days"/"end times", will happen in the "last days"/"end times". WE ARE NOT IN THOSE DAYS. The "last days"/"endtimes" started in Acts 2:15-20. They were interrupted. They will not resume again UNTIL the rapture of the Chruch, the Body of Christ.

Evangelist posted:
Interesting.....try reading a little history. Up until roughly 350 AD, recorded sermons and writings of early church fathers and leaders made reference to "since we are in the last times," and other similar phraseology. It would seem that they considered themselves to be in the "last days."  Granted, though, that there is a distinction between "last days", or "end times" and "last days of the tribulation", or the "very end of the end times".

BigD answers:
If the recorded sermons and writings of the early church fathers and leaders wrote by inspiration of God, then I believe God would have seen to it that those writings would be in the Bible. I go by the Church history of the Bible.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Cont'd PART 3

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

PART 3
BigD posted:
I hate to keep repeating myself, but you haven't SHOWN ME were I am wrong. You only tell me what you believe.

Evangelist responds:
ROFL....I think you're the one who keeps saying "IMHO", along with making reference to events as factual without showing how.

BigD replies:
When I use the expression "IMHO", I as saying that is what the Bible teaches.

What events have I refered to as factual without showing how?
------------------------------------------------------

Evangelist posted:
Finally, in re other OT prophecies, you said "BRING IT ON". I would ask "why?", if your approach is to categorically deny that any OT prophecies could possibly be fulfilled during this dispensation of grace?

BigD responds:
Well you seemed to indicate that there were many more OT prophesied that were fulfilled in this dispensation; when you really haven't shown me even one. So, If there are more OT prophesies that you believe were fulfilled in this dispensation, I envite you to "bring them on."
---------------------------------------------------------

Evangelist posted:
Remember, if you will, the words of Jesus when He told His disciples who had been admiring the Temple that it would be torn down. That was in roughly 32/33 AD.  Paul, who introduced (by your reckoning) the Gospel of Grace and this current dispensation, died in roughly 64 AD.

The Temple was torn down in 70 AD.  An 'OT' prophecy (given under the dispensation of the law) fulfilled 32 years later (under the dispensation of grace).

BigD responds:
I don't ever recall reading in prophesy what Jesus said in Matthew 24:1-3 about the Temple being torn down. If I am wrong in that area, PLEASE correct me. Yes, what Jesus said did happen in 70 AD.

Evangelist replies:
And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to [him] for to shew him the buildings of the temple.(2) And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

I'm not quite clear on what you're saying here. Are you saying that what Jesus said was NOT a prophecy, or are you saying that this event was not spoken of by any of the OT prophets?

If it is the first, then all I can say is.....??????

If the second, please read Dan. 9:26

BigD answers:
I am saying it is the first. PLEASE SHOW ME the OT prophesy that was fulfilled in AD 70.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Evangelist posted:
It is immaterial to the subject at hand as to whether or not any of the OT prophets saw, knew, or understood anything at all about the dispensation of Grace....certainly it would be fair to assume that God did, and He is the one who told the prophets what to say... He did NOT require them to understand, and obviously didn't give them revelation concerning it....but that in no way compromises the revelation, the prophecy, or its ultimate fulfillment.

BigD responds:
The dispensation of grace was not an after thought, but what God planned it before the world was created, and kept it a secret/mystery until it was revealed to the Aposlte Paul. It was His secret weapon to defeat satan.

One cannot find the cross and what it will do in any OT prophesies. 1Cor2:7,8 "But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdome, which God ordained before the world (before creation) unto our glory: Which none of the princes of the world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory."

It was the cross that defeated satan. Had he know that the cross would seal his doom, he would have "worked like the devil" to keep Christ from the cross.

Evangelist replies:
Mostly, I agree....but OTOH, I find the cross amply present throughout the OT.....but of course, I have hindsight.  

There is, though.... Num. 21:8-9 cf. John 12:32-33.  Granted that Moses did not understand it, but that lack of understanding does not prevent the parallel that Jesus drew from it.

BigD answers:
Num. 21:8-9  "And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived."

John 12:32-33 "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."

HOW did that draw a parallel that Jesus drew from it.

John 3:13,14 does have a reference to Numbers 21:8-9.

The purpose of the cross was unknown during OT times (1Cor2:7,8). Yes, we can see it now because of hind site.

--------------------------------------------------------

Evangelist posted:
BTW...the rending of the veil in the Temple. As Paul put it, it was the "tearing down of the wall of partition" between man and God, between Jew and Gentile, making access to God personally available to everyone. The "making of twain one for Himself". (Eph. 2:12-19)

BigD responds:
I cannot find anywhere in Scripture where the Temple veil was the middle wall of partition between the Jew and Gentile. That wall of partition was in place prior to the Temple ever being built. Hope you can come up with better "proof text" then that. Even after the veil was wrent, it was still unlawful for a Jew to go to one of another country. This was confirmed by Peter in Acts 10:28. That was at least 5-10 years the cross.

Evangelist replies:
"He who has eyes to see, let him see...he who has ears to hear, let him hear..."
You say that a "wall of partition was in place prior to the Temple ever being built."

Part of Gods original charge to Israel was to be a light unto the Gentiles, showing them the way to the one true God. It was the Israelites themselves who erected the "wall of partition" by their action and subversion of His law, and effectively separated mankind into two camps....those who could approach God (Israel) and those who could not (all others) UNLESS they came through the Jews.....and that predated the instructions to build even the tabernacle, much less the temple.

Even after the veil was rent, and at least 5-10 years after the cross, Peter dissembled.....did that make him right? Did that mean that such separation was still in effect in Gods eyes? Or does that mean that sinful misunderstanding man continued to misrepresent, misinterpret, and mishandle Gods will and Word?

38 years after the cross, it was still "unlawful" to walk more than so many paces on the Sabbath.  So?

BigD answers:
Yes, Isreal was to be a light to the Gentiles. If Israel would obey God, God would shower them with blessings. THEN the Gentiles would see the blessing that Israel had and would go to the Jews to find out why they were so blessed. The Gentiles would come to them.

When Israel returns to God then Isaiah 60:1-3 will be fulfilled. "Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people; but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. And The Gentiles shall COME to thy light, and the kings to the brightness of thy rising."

Zechariah 8:23 "Thus saith the Lord of Host; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will GO WITH YOU, for we have heard that God is with you.

It was God who made the distinction between the Jew and Gentile when He set the Gentiles aside in Genesis 11, at the Tower of Babel. They brough it upon himself. The only way for a Gentile to serve the true and Living God was for that Gentile to become a Jew (proselyte).

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 Hi DreamWeaver thank you for the link.

I agreed with you 100% of what you said in the beginning starting thread for this forum.

 I want to add my own belief in where we are at in the end times and the Trumpet were currently in.

Revelation chapter 8

First Trumpet: was World War One

Second Trumpet: was World War Two

Third Trumpet: was the Russian Chernobyl nuclear accident in 1986 on April 26. Chernobyl in the Ukraine and in Ukrainian  means and Chernobyl means WormWood.

Fourth Trumpet: was Desert Storm war in 1991 the 1000 oil wells that Saddam destroyed burning oil wells covered the third of the sun and the third of the moon and the third of stars.


Fifth Trumpet: was again part of the Desert Storm War

Here is a website i found last night about the Desert Storm War.
However, these "horses prepared unto battle" were flying (locusts fly), and so he was shown flying war-machines, that had what looked similar to a crown of gold on their heads; faces like the faces of men; breast-plates of metal; the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle; tails like scorpions with stings in them.

Saudi Arabia is very sunny and with the sunlight on the rotor-blades, looking down on them flying, it would (and did) appear like a crown on the locust's (helicopter's) head.

Looking at them from the front with the two windows (eyes); the nose and some had a mouth with teeth like lion's teeth painted on them; they looked like a face, but also, men sit in them and they certainly have faces like the faces of men.

John said they had breast-plates like breast-plates of iron (metal) because they are made of metal (aluminium) and he didn't say aluminium because it had not been invented then and wouldn't be, for almost 2000 years into the future.

The sound of their wings was "like the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle." The only flying-machine that sounds like that is a HELICOPTER.

They had tails like scorpions (they stick up in the air) and there were stings in their tails (the tail rotor-blade).

The verse that causes the most confusion and would prevent most people from recognising the LOCUSTS as helicopters is verse 8 because of the reference to them having hair like the hair of women. Helicopters do not have hair like the hair of women - but in the Gulf War they did.

The key is in the past. In John's day all the women, except those in disgrace, had very long hair because they were not allowed to cut their hair short. If they were in disgrace their hair was cut for them, as a sign that they were in disgrace.

A lady's hair was known as her glory and her "covering". The operative word here is "covering" and that word is the key to the riddle.

John was shown the helicopters flying, with the sun on their rotor-blades which made them look like "crowns like gold", but he was also shown them on the ground, where they were kept under camouflage nets that hung down to the ground and was their "covering".

The "SCORPIONS" were armoured ground vehicles and the IRONY is that the British armoured vehicles are actually CALLED "Scorpions".


Now it is time to return to the verses (3-6) that I promised earlier on to return to once we knew what the "locusts" and "scorpions" were, and to see how accurately the prophecy fits the Iraq - Kuwait Gulf conflict of 1990/91.

The U.S.A./ U.K. and allies were building up their military capability for weeks but as soon as Sadam's forces set fire to the 1000 oil-wells and the SMOKE appeared, the allies moved immediately against the Iraquis and the LOCUSTS (helicopters) and SCORPIONS (armoured vehicles) came out of the SMOKE, just as John wrote it 2000 years before it happened.

Next we have the statement that they were commanded not to hurt the grass or any green thing or any tree and they obeyed.

During the Vietnam War the U.S.A. "carpet-bombed" and used "agent orange" (a defoliant) and "napalm" (fire) both of which caused a great deal of damage to the vegetation (greenery).

This time, using laser and video-guided weapons with precision "pin-point" accuracy, the allies hit only exactly what they aimed at and did not destroy the vegetation.

"Men shall seek death and shall not find it." During the build-up, the allies were "gung-ho" and ready to die but when the time came they did not DIE.

On the allies side virtually all of the fatal casualties, and there were only about 16 of them, were caused by "so-called" "friendly-fire". If there can be such a thing.


Never in the field of human conflict were so few killed by so many.

The torment lasted for 5 months with the combatants not knowing whether they were going to live or die.

11. "And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abbadon, but in Greek his name is Apollyon."

The words Abbadon and Apollyon, both, when translated into English, mean "the Destroyer" - "the angel of the bottomless pit" - SATAN.

Sadam, like others before him (Hitler; Stalin; etc.), is merely a glove-puppet for Satan and does the bidding of his master, Lucifer, "the angel of the bottomless pit" - Satan.

Who other than Satan would be so insane as to set fire to 1000 oil-wells and tip tons of sticky, black crude-oil into the sea?

Only the "Destroyer", who wants to, and is trying to, kill YOU and has vowed to destroy ALL of you and take YOU with him into the "FIRE", would be that crazy.

In Revelation 16 v 10-12 we are told about the seat of the beast - Babylon, where the destructive "market-system" began thousands of years ago, in what is now called Iraq - "And his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, and blasphemed the God of Heaven because of their pains and their sores"---

His kingdom WAS full of darkness literally and IS full of darkness spiritually, still.

The people did gnaw their tongues because of their pains and their sores, caused by the sulphuric acid in their lungs and on their skin.

The crude-oil in that region of the world is very heavily laden with sulphur and when you mix sulphur with water you get sulphuric acid. It rained sulphuric acid-rain for thousands of miles around that area and wherever the wind blew the smoke pollution.

During W.W.1. the "mustard-gas" that was used was sulphur-gas and it burned the lungs and the skin of those exposed to it. The moisture in the lungs turns sulphur-gas into acid and sweat on the skin does the same.

The people in Kuwait were having respiratory (breathing) difficulties early on and the full details were never publicised.


Sixth Trumpet Watch

China says Taiwan war-mongering
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3699460.stm

U.S. Calm After N. Korea Nuke Claim
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,133874,00.html

N. Korea used to justify missile system
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6126471/

On the Sixth Trumpet Watch i got the info from a Radio Station called POLITICS AND RELIGION here is there website

http://www.endtime.com/html/radiohtm.asp

http://www.endtime.com/

They have explained all the Trumpets in full detail i dont have the info as they do to explain it in full as i want to.

Michael

BigD:

Don't have much time, but this one....

God did NOT set aside the "Gentiles" or make any distinction between Jew and Gentile at the tower of Babel. Jews did not come into existence until the time of Abrahams sons (the Patriarchs of the Twelve Tribes). At the time of Babel, ALL were "gentiles," if you want to call them that.

1. Many will come in the name of Christ, deceiving (Mat. 24:5)
2. Wars and rumors of wars (Mat. 24:6)
3. Famines, pestilence, earthquakes in diverse places (Mat. 24:7)
4. False prophets (Mat. 24:11)
5. Apostasy (Mat. 24:12, 2 Thess. 2:3)
6. When Israel (a fig tree) blossoms (puts forth young leaves) ie: is reconstituted (Mat. 24:32-33)
7. The man of sin (antichrist) is revealed (2 Thess. 2:3)


I'll point out to you that you introduce the word tribulation into the scripture....that's a naughty. Shame, shame!!  The words "last days" are not now, and never have been synonymous with the Tribulation, Great Tribulation, the Time of Jacob's trouble, or the outpouring of the wrath of God.

Which automatically puts your interpretation at complete odds with scripture, namely Daniel, Matthew, and Jesus.

Why should I tell you Peter was mistaken? He knew where he was in the timetable, which is far more than can be said for you. Pay attention to the last words of Joel (and Peter).....BEFORE the great and notable day of the Lord...
And, in case you are not aware of it, the Joel passage describes the Day of the Lord, or His day of Wrath (aka Tribulation) as a TERRIBLE day, not a notable (or conspicuous) day. There was a mistranslation in the Stephanus TR from the Hebrew.

Peter is definitely describing the event prophesied by Joel of the outpouring of God's Holy Spirit during the "last days," which ENCOMPASSES the times of the Gentiles, or the dispensation of Grace.

What does that have to do with this? Are you trying to make a case for misdirection, obfuscation, or simple apples and oranges?

Right! That's why Israel is being regathered. And why their big war only lasted 6 days. And why they have been able to reclaim land. No blessings from God there, they did it ALL on their own.

That ranks right up there with "it depends on what you mean by 'that' " (thank you, slick willie!).

And so does Jesus, and Peter, and James, and John. And most particularly, we are told that when we SEE certain signs 'coming to pass' (being fulfilled/in the process of being fulfilled/leading up to a time of fulfillment) we are to "lift up thine (our) eyes, for YOUR REDEMPTION DRAWETH NIGH."  Simply put, the time is close, not distant.


****sigh****

Chapter and verse, please. I was listening to my bible (KJV, 1648) and didn't hear it say that at all. Maybe it was just mumblin'.

Yes...there might be....and we might be knocked out of orbit by a photon beam from the REAL Klingons, too.

Rofl. Biiiiiiig Rofl.  Surely your bible contains the phrase "Kings of the East", doesn't it? Oh...sorry.....if it doesn't say China, then they must not be there. And the same would then apply to the Common Market, right? And Russia?


Which said history ended in 95 AD.  So nothing has happened since? Nothing that anybody has said since then makes any difference to you? If that's the case, then why are you an Act's 9'er? Why not an Act's 2'ish? Even better, why not just a plain old Scofield/Darby Dispy? Surely as a pretrib/premil you like what Ephraem had to say...don't you?


Then it would behoove you to begin posting actual scriptures without inserting your own words or interpretation.


As noted above, your contention that the tribulation actually began, and then was parenthesized. State a date, state the supporting scripture, and resolve it with Daniel et al.

Methinks you may have a bit of problem reading. Jesus made a prophetic statement, circa 32/33 AD concerning the temple. It parallels the prophecy given by Daniel.  The prophecy came to pass in 70 AD.

Since you chose option 1 (the first), then you must not consider the words of Jesus to be inspired, holy or prophetic, in which case you need to do a serious rethinking of your position in Him.



I think you've answered your own question.

BigD responds:
Sorry about the delay in responding, but my computer crashed "big time" and had to send it to the hospital. I think the computer people sent it to the people hospital to the Expensive Care Unit. Well the bill indicated that.

Let me make myself a little more clear.

After God set the Gentiles aside at the Tower of Babel, in Genesis 11, He (God) raised up Abram to take a people unto Himself. That happened to be the nation of Israel.

Those living during the at the time of Abram and Genesis 11 were called Gentiles. See Genesis 10:5.

Tomarrow I am leaving for 1 week to go to a military reunion in Las Vages. Therefore, I will not have time to respond to the other post of yours. I WILL DO IT when I return. Being I have a great many things to do yet today, I doubt if I will get to it today. Be patient. I will be back.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

I understand...of course, if you had a MAC  ;D


Agreed that ALL were Gentiles, but you did say that at the Tower GOD distinguised between Jew and Gentile....that did happen a bit later.

Enjoy!! While you're there, if you can get any to do so, please pray for my son-in-law currently with 1st Cav 2/7 (Ghost Battalion) in Najaf.

Take your time, and I'll patiently wait.
Again, enjoy!!

PART 1

BigD posted:
IMHO the ONLY thing that must happen before the Tribulation that started in Acts 2:15-20, and was interrupted with the setting aside of the nation Israel, is the rapture of the Chruch, the Body of Christ.

Evangelist replies:
I'm glad you said IMHO.

BigD answers:
Can you name some other event that must happen prior to the rapture of the Church? Please give Scriptural support for your answer

Evangelist responded:
1. Many will come in the name of Christ, deceiving (Mat. 24:5)
2. Wars and rumors of wars (Mat. 24:6)
3. Famines, pestilence, earthquakes in diverse places (Mat. 24:7)
4. False prophets (Mat. 24:11)
5. Apostasy (Mat. 24:12, 2 Thess. 2:3)
6. When Israel (a fig tree) blossoms (puts forth young leaves) ie: is reconstituted (Mat. 24:32-33)

BigD replies:
The above verses apply during the Tribulation. The Chruch, the Body of Christ will not go through the Tribulation/Great Tribulation as per 1Thess5:9.

Evangelist continued:
7. The man of sin (antichrist) is revealed (2 Thess. 2:3)

BigD answers:
This will happen AFTER the Chruch, the Body of Christ is raptured.
-------------------------------------------------

BigD posted:
Acts 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16. But THIS IS THAT which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17. And it shall come to pass in the last days (Tribulation), saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and you young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18. And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will ppour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy;
19. And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneith; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20.The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

Peter at Pentecost is quoting Joel 2:28-32 almost word for word. Joel 2 is speaking of the 70th week of Dainel, the Tribulation. Here in Acts 2, the signs are beginning to appear.

Evangelist responds:
I'll point out to you that you introduce the word tribulation into the scripture....that's a naughty. Shame, shame!!  The words "last days" are not now, and never have been synonymous with the Tribulation, Great Tribulation, the Time of Jacob's trouble, or the outpouring of the wrath of God.

BigD replies:
FYI the "last days" include both the Tribulation and the mellennial reign of Christ upon the earth. Peter is speaking of the "last days" in Acts 2:17. Peter is saying that they are appearing already.
-----------------------------------------------------
BigD posted:
There was no peace treaty with the anti-christ signed.

Evangelist responded:
Which automatically puts your interpretation at complete odds with scripture, namely Daniel, Matthew, and Jesus.

BigD replies:
Well Peter is telling his listeners that the "last day" have started. There was no peace treaty signed with the anti-christ signed at that time. According to your understanding, Peter is at odds with Daniel, Matthew and Jesus.
----------------------------------------------------

BigD posted:
Don't bother to tell me that Peter was mistaken. Peter knew exactly where he was in the timetable of prophesy.

Evangelist responded:
Why should I tell you Peter was mistaken? He knew where he was in the timetable, which is far more than can be said for you. Pay attention to the last words of Joel (and Peter).....BEFORE the great and notable day of the Lord...

And, in case you are not aware of it, the Joel passage describes the Day of the Lord, or His day of Wrath (aka Tribulation) as a TERRIBLE day, not a notable (or conspicuous) day. There was a mistranslation in the Stephanus TR from the Hebrew.

Peter is definitely describing the event prophesied by Joel of the outpouring of God's Holy Spirit during the "last days," which ENCOMPASSES the times of the Gentiles, or the dispensation of Grace.

BigD responds:
Joel and Peter are both discribing the Tribulation. It is at the end of the Tribulation that Jesus comes back as a righteous judge and judges the worl. That is "the great and notable of the Lord." Peter is describing the events that must take place prior to the return of Christ, i.e. the great and notable day of the Lord, and already beginning to appear. What part of "THIS IS THAT" don't you understand?
----------------------------------------------------
Evangelist posted:
For the nation to sign a peace treaty, it must exist.

BigD responds:
The nation of Isreal does exist now, but it is not restored Isreal. Also, after the rapture of the Church, the Body of Christ, God will be dealing the sealed 144,000  mentioned in Revelation 7:4-8.

Evangelist replies:
Israel regathered is Israel restored (at least in part). That's called a fait accompli. What does the sealing of 144,000 have to do with this?

That the nation of Israel now exists is a given....regardless of HOW it exists.

BigD answers:
Jesus told the leaders of Israel in Matthew 22:43 "Therefore I say unto you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

In the Tribulation period we find that Isreal is represented by members of the 12 tribes. The sealed 144,000 of Revelation 7:4-8. There fruit is mentioned in vs 9.

Evangelist  comes back and asks:
What does that have to do with this? Are you trying to make a case for misdirection, obfuscation, or simple apples and oranges?

BigD comes back
No, just trying to show you that after the rapture of the Chruch, the Body of Christ, God will again be dealing with the nation of Israel through the 144,000 sealed Jews during the Tribulation period. The Chruch, the Body of Christ will have been raptured to heaven during the Tribulation period.
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BigD answers:
In the OT when Isreal was driven from the land it was due to punishment. God did not discontinue His dealing with them as His favored people. During this dispensation of grace, God is not dealing with Isreal as His favored people or as a nation.

Evangelist responds:
Right! That's why Israel is being regathered. And why their big war only lasted 6 days. And why they have been able to reclaim land. No blessings from God there, they did it ALL on their own.

BigD comes back:
Yup, they did it all on their own. The nation of Israel today is not the restored Israel that God will be dealing with during the Tribulation.
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BigD answers:
OT prophesies are not "being" fulfilled today, however, events are happening that will lead to the fulfillment of OT prophesies.

Evanagelist replies:
That ranks right up there with "it depends on what you mean by 'that' " (thank you, slick willie!).

BigD responds:
WOW!!! What insight you show in that response. Well, at least you said something; even though it means nothing to me.
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BigD answers:
Paul speaks about the condition of the world prior to the time of the rapture. Yet, we cannot say that the rapture is going to happen in the very near future. It is quite possible that it will, and it could be that it won't happen for another 1,000 years, or more, from now.

Evangelist responds:
And so does Jesus, and Peter, and James, and John. And most particularly, we are told that when we SEE certain signs 'coming to pass' (being fulfilled/in the process of being fulfilled/leading up to a time of fulfillment) we are to "lift up thine (our) eyes, for YOUR REDEMPTION DRAWETH NIGH."  Simply put, the time is close, not distant.

BigD replies:
What Peter, James and John are told in Luke 21:28 belong to the Tribulation period, and are told these things even prior to Paul even being saved. What Paul is speaking of is still future revelation. You are reading future revelation into past events. THAT IS A NO NO. Do you read "the Laws of Moses" into "the Garden of Eden also?"
----------------------------------

BigD asks:
How does this dispensation of grace fit into you fulfillment of OT prophesy? Can you find this dispensation of grace in prophesy?

Evangelist answers:
****sigh****

BigD responds:
When you don't know how to answer a question, just give out a sigh; maybe it will go away.

Well, I will be gone for a week, so that should give you pleanty of time to come up with an answer.

Cont'd in PART 2

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

PART 2

BigD posted:
My Bible tells me that the time clock of OT prophesy has stopped during this dispensation of grace.

Evangelist responds:
Chapter and verse, please. I was listening to my bible (KJV, 1648) and didn't hear it say that at all. Maybe it was just mumblin'.

BigD responds:
Well, the Bible is God's word for us today. It speaks to my heart and soul. Are you saying that God's only mumbles in your Bible?

When I see that all the events that started in Acts 2:15-20 are yet unfulfilled, then I come up with the conclusion that those days of prophesy have been interrupted. That is a "no brainer."
------------------------------------

BigD posted:
Just because there are modern inventions that are available that are capable for the "mark" of the beast to know who is buying and selling doesn't mean that they will be used during the Tribulation. When the Tribulation happens, there may be even better methods of doing it then what we have today.

Evangelist responds:
Yes...there might be....and we might be knocked out of orbit by a photon beam from the REAL Klingons, too.

BigD replies:
My My, what great insight you have.
---------------------------------------

BigD posted:
Yes China does have a 200,000,000 man Army. Who is it fighting today. They aren't doing anything to fulfill the prophesy in the book of the Revelation. I'm not saying they won't. The 200,000,000 million man Army could also be made up of group of nations that belong to the UN or those nations in the Common Market of Europe. I haven't read about China in the book of Revelation.

Evangelist responds:
Rofl. Biiiiiiig Rofl.  Surely your bible contains the phrase "Kings of the East", doesn't it? Oh...sorry.....if it doesn't say China, then they must not be there. And the same would then apply to the Common Market, right? And Russia?

BigD replies:
You got me on that one.
------------------------------------------

BigD answers:
If the recorded sermons and writings of the early church fathers and leaders wrote by inspiration of God, then I believe God would have seen to it that those writings would be in the Bible. I go by the Church history of the Bible.

Evangelist responded:
Which said history ended in 95 AD.  So nothing has happened since? Nothing that anybody has said since then makes any difference to you? If that's the case, then why are you an Act's 9'er? Why not an Act's 2'ish? Even better, why not just a plain old Scofield/Darby Dispy? Surely as a pretrib/premil you like what Ephraem had to say...don't you?

BigD replies:
What the Bible contains is ALL that God wanted us to know about His will. I have never said or implied that what has happened in past history means nothing to me. It is just that I don't look to past history, outside the Bible, for God's will in my life. Past history said that the world was flat too, but we know better today. Past Chruch history to many also said that Israel would never again be a nation, and that the Chruch today is spiritual Israel and would reap all the blessing promised to the nation of Israel. I know that for a fact because that I was taught in the "christian school."  No, I do not look to Church history outside the Bible for my Christian beliefs and walk.
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BigD posted:
I hate to keep repeating myself, but you haven't SHOWN ME were I am wrong. You only tell me what you believe.

Evangelist responds:
ROFL....I think you're the one who keeps saying "IMHO", along with making reference to events as factual without showing how.

BigD replies:
As I have said before, "IMHO" means that is what I believe the Bible teaches. Lets compare the amount of Scriptural references that I posted to qualify what I have said and the amount of Scriptural references you have used.
-------------------------------------

BigD replies:
When I use the expression "IMHO", I as saying that is what the Bible teaches.

Evangelist comes back:
Then it would behoove you to begin posting actual scriptures without inserting your own words or interpretation.

BigD says:
Will do. I'm then counting on you to do the same. Don't require of me anything that you won't do.
--------------------------------------

BigD asks:
What events have I refered to as factual without showing how?

Evangelist answers:
As noted above, your contention that the tribulation actually began, and then was parenthesized. State a date, state the supporting scripture, and resolve it with Daniel et al.

BigD responds:
My contention comes from what Peter said in Acts 2:15-20. He is quoting Joel 2:28-32 which is speaking of the 70th week of Daniel.  You have not SHOWN me what Peter or Joel was speaking of. Peter is saying "THIS IS THAT" which is spoken of by the prophet Joes, vs 16. In verse 17, Peter is quoting Joel who was speaking of the "last day" that were beginning to appear at Pentecost.
-------------------------------------------

Evangelist asks:
I'm not quite clear on what you're saying here. Are you saying that what Jesus said was NOT a prophecy, or are you saying that this event was not spoken of by any of the OT prophets?

If it is the first, then all I can say is.....??????

If the second, please read Dan. 9:26

BigD answers:
I am saying it is the first. PLEASE SHOW ME the OT prophesy that was fulfilled in AD 70.

Evangelist replies:
Methinks you may have a bit of problem reading. Jesus made a prophetic statement, circa 32/33 AD concerning the temple. It parallels the prophecy given by Daniel.  The prophecy came to pass in 70 AD.

Since you chose option 1 (the first), then you must not consider the words of Jesus to be inspired, holy or prophetic, in which case you need to do a serious rethinking of your position in Him.

BigD responds:
What Jesus said in Matthew 24:2 cannot be found in prophesy or the book of Daniel. Again I request SHOW ME.

I HAVE NEVER SAID OR IMPLIED THAT I CONSIDERED THE WORDS OF JESUS NOT BEING INSPIRED. YOU ARE ATTEMPTING TO CREATE A STRAW DUMMY.
-----------------------------------------------------

BigD answers:
Num. 21:8-9  "And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived."

John 12:32-33 "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."

HOW did that draw a parallel that Jesus drew from it?

John 3:13,14 does have a reference to Numbers 21:8-9.

The purpose of the cross was unknown during OT times (1Cor2:7,8). Yes, we can see it now because of hind site.

Evangelist responds:
I think you've answered your own question.

BigD replies:
I was just point out to you that John 3:13,14 was more of a parrallel to Numbers 21:8-9 then John a2:32-33.
---------------------------------------------
Couldn't sleep, so this is the best way to make the night go away.

Be back in a week.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and

I have found the following very interesting when I compare Isaiah 61:1-2 with Luke 4:17-21:

Isaiah 61
1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Luke 4
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

You will notice in Luke 4, Jesus is quoting Isaiah 61:1,2 almost in its entirety. When you read the account in Luke 4, pay particular notice where Jesus stopped reading Isaiah 61, and then closed the book.

Had Jesus read on through "and the day of vengeance of our God," He would not have been able to say, as He did in vs 21, "...This day is this scripture fulfilled in you ears." That particular phrase happens to be the Tribulation period, and it hadn't started yet when Jesus spoke those words in Luke 4.

Even today, it is still the "acceptable year of the LORD". However, "the day of vengeance of our God" has not yet been fulfilled. It still awaits future fulfillment.

Yes, it did start in Acts 2:15-20, but was interrupted by this dispensation of grace. This dispensation of grace is a (parenthetical) period within the dispensation of the Law which began with Moses and was interrupted when God set the nation of Israel aside, "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (Rms11:25), which is the rapture of the Chruch, the Body of Christ.

Even though the dispensation of grace cannot be found in prophesy, I can look back and see a place where it fits in.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

You know, I should have placed this thread in debate Big D. Thats what you have been doing, is debating this thread. You now have me confused, and fustrated. I am just a simple man, not a debater.

Dream Weaver:
My intend on this thread was not to confuse or fustrate anyone. Forgive me if I did.

I too am jsut a "simple man" that enjoys studying the Bible. My postings represent what I do believe the Bible teaches. However, I do enjoy discussing different views of Biblical Doctrine.

Previously I was a Calvinist but became confused and fustrated when I read the Bible and it didn't jive with what I believed the Bible was teaching. My pastors and teachers only gave me "Chruch Doctrine" answers to my many questions. The were like polititians who give you answers but never answer your question.

It had caused me to go unchurched for far too many years and I even had to quit reading the Bible for fear of going crazy.

It was only when I was shown that all the Bible is FOR ME but not all TO ME. I no longer try to take the promises to Isreal and its hope of an earthly kingdom, but NOW I can see the blessings that I presently have IN CHRIST, and that I am already blessed with all spiritual blessing in heaven and one day will go to my home IN heaven. While here upon the earth, I am an ambassador for Chirst. I am here as a representative of my Heavenly Government, with God on the Throne and Jesus seated at His right hand.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord.

I appreciate your support Borther Love.

God Bless you.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

This is all very interesting. As saints we should be watching and waiting for His appearing (perousia). We know that antichrist is coming but his coming is simply an indication that the coming of our Lord Jesus is near. Once we see the man of sin standing in the temple proclaiming himself to be God we can be sure that the time is near. That day and hour of Christ's appearing no one knows.
Having said this I think it is good for you to know the teachings of the pre wrath rapture. I invite you to check it out. Go to: http://www.solagroup.org/articles/endtimes.html
I believe that Christians should not divide over this issue but be Bereans and search the bible to see if these things are true. I have done a lot of research myself having read all sides of the issue and studied the Bible myself but there are still questions that go unanswered for now. I know Jesus will show us things to come as we draw closer to the end, so let us be patient with each other and allow Him to unfold truth as we go along.
God bless,
asaph

BigD answers:`
Acts 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16. But THIS IS THAT which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17. And it shall come to pass in the last days (Tribulation), saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and you young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18. And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will ppour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy;
19. And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneith; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20.The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

Peter at Pentecost is quoting Joel 2:28-32 almost word for word. Joel 2 is speaking of the 70th week of Dainel, the Tribulation. Here in Acts 2, the signs are beginning to appear.

There was no peace treaty with the anti-christ signed.

Don't bother to tell me that Peter was mistaken. Peter knew exactly where he was in the timetable of prophesy. In Luke 24:45 we see that Jesus had opened up the understanding of the Scriptures (Old Testament Scriptures), prior to His returning to heaven. Also, Peter and the others, at Pentecost, were speaking "AS THE SPIRIT GAVE THEM UTTERANCE" (Acts 2:4).


100% RIGHT ON


Thank You BigD, You made my day


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