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Entertainment => Music => Topic started by: Vivaldi on May 24, 2004, 05:27:02 PM



Title: Biblical Philosophy of Music
Post by: Vivaldi on May 24, 2004, 05:27:02 PM
There are many different views on the purpose and methodology of biblical music.  How would you articulate yours?



Title: Re:Biblical Philosophy of Music
Post by: sincereheart on May 25, 2004, 07:45:58 AM
Uh.... "biblical music" being?  ???


Re: "methodology"; do you mean styles of music? Instruments? Tempo?  ???

Please excuse my ignorance.... :-X


Title: Re:Biblical Philosophy of Music
Post by: Vivaldi on May 26, 2004, 12:08:15 AM
Sorry about my vague question.  

Biblical Music - Does all music honor and please God?  Can all music be used to worship Him?

Methodology - Melody, Harmony, Timbre (instruments), Rhythm, Form, Presentation, Reputation of artist, Affiliations, Goals of performance, ect...


Title: Re:Biblical Philosophy of Music
Post by: Allinall on May 27, 2004, 12:06:59 PM
There are many different views on the purpose and methodology of biblical music.  How would you articulate yours?



I believe that there are two basic purposes of biblical music: worship and edification.  We worship God in song and we build one another up as we teach each other in "...psalms, hymns and spiritual songs."  

As far as what music is acceptable...what distinctions are laid out in scripture?  I tend to think that people place opinion and tradition on par with biblical truth.  Hence, we end up being "biblically" against CCM, or other types of music that, to be frank, praise God far more biblically, and build believers up far more substantially than some of the hymns of the past.  In all, the worship is seen far more in that genre than in the past.

Just a thought... :)


Title: Re:Biblical Philosophy of Music
Post by: nChrist on May 28, 2004, 08:48:43 PM
Oklahoma Howdy to Vivaldi,

I'm an older person, so my views don't represent many of the younger folks.   :D

First, I like pretty lyrics that are appropriate for the worship of God and the uplifting of God's children. I think that Christian music is much more than just entertainment. I'm positive that many people receive a blessing by hearing it and singing it. Again, as an older person, I enjoy the older styles of music. To me, many Christian songs and hymns represent a "joyful noise unto the Lord".

I have a nephew who plays Christian Rock. You would be right if you guessed that I don't enjoy this music nearly as much. The lyrics are pretty and appropriate, but most of the music is a little bit too wild for me. I don't tell my nephew that, and I know there are many Christians who listen to Christian Rock.  I don't suggest there is anything wrong with it. It just isn't my style of music.


Title: Re:Biblical Philosophy of Music
Post by: Catharine on May 30, 2004, 11:25:10 AM
Something has always puzzled me.
How can there be 'Christian Rock'?

The roots of 'Rock and Roll' are illicit sex.  

The teaching of Christianity is one man and one woman for life, no fornication, homosexuality or adultery.

 


Title: Re:Biblical Philosophy of Music
Post by: Allinall on May 30, 2004, 11:51:11 AM
Hey Tom!  Two questions:  1. Why did you post that 3 times?  And 2.  They had music when you were younger?   ;D

Sorry Brother.  I just couldn't resist.  It was there and just plain had to be shared.   :D


Title: Re:Biblical Philosophy of Music
Post by: nChrist on May 30, 2004, 06:07:30 PM
Hey Tom!  Two questions:  1. Why did you post that 3 times?  And 2.  They had music when you were younger?   ;D

Sorry Brother.  I just couldn't resist.  It was there and just plain had to be shared.   :D

Oklahoma Howdy to Allinall,

 ;D  Wow! - Thanks for telling me. That must have been another one of those times when the CU server was being hit by spam bots. I only pushed the "post" button once. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.   ;D  I was on several times when the CU server was acting really funny and taking 10 times the normal for processing a command. I liked that post, so I thought about leaving all three.   ;D

Yes, we had music when I was younger. We beat on hollowed out trees of varying dimensions. WOW! - they were a bear to tune.   ;D

Love In Christ,
Tom


Title: Re:Biblical Philosophy of Music
Post by: sincereheart on June 01, 2004, 07:38:11 AM
Sorry about my vague question.  

Biblical Music - Does all music honor and please God?  Can all music be used to worship Him?
As long as it's Scriptural!

Quote
Methodology - Melody, Harmony, Timbre (instruments), Rhythm, Form, Presentation, Reputation of artist, Affiliations, Goals of performance, ect...
Why not? God made each of us with different personalties!


Title: Re:Biblical Philosophy of Music
Post by: sincereheart on June 01, 2004, 07:41:39 AM
Something has always puzzled me.
How can there be 'Christian Rock'?

The roots of 'Rock and Roll' are illicit sex.  

The teaching of Christianity is one man and one woman for life, no fornication, homosexuality or adultery.  

I think it's more a matter of, say, the tempo and the instruments than the 'roots'.  ???

I like the Newsboys. They have a perk me up beat with a Message!  ;D


Title: Re:Biblical Philosophy of Music
Post by: nChrist on June 02, 2004, 02:23:07 AM
Oklahoma Howdy to Sincereheart,

Each person may have a range of Christian music styles that they enjoy, and the time or place may have something to do with their choices (i.e. church, home).

I've never listened to Christian punk rock, so I wouldn't have a clue what that is. Of course, I haven't listened to non-Christian punk rock either. I think that I've listened to what the kids call heavy metal a couple of times. I don't know what to say about that.   ???   :D  I may never be the same again.   ;D

My list of Christian music that I like is rather large and old fashioned: in a range from the soft and reverent hymns, on to the wonderful sound of a grand piano solo, through the barbershop style quartets, on to the extra beat of Southern Gospel, and into the joyful noise of Bluegrass Gospel. I've enjoyed some of what most people call contemporary Christian music, but I always go back to the older styles. Most of my favorites usually involve some rhythm, a little bit of a beat, some harmony, and a variety of instruments that all blend together for a joyful noise to the Lord. Some of my favorite instruments are the paino, violin, bass fiddle, several types of guitars, and some percussion in the background. You add some pretty human voices in harmony for the finishing touches and have some good, old fashioned Gospel music.

Love In Christ,
Tom


Title: Re:Biblical Philosophy of Music
Post by: Vivaldi on June 02, 2004, 04:37:29 PM
WOW!!  Thanks for so many responses.  Most of the posts to date have been of the "I Think" variety.  Does the Bible speak to the issue of music or is it an "I Think" concept?

Vivaldi


Title: Re:Biblical Philosophy of Music
Post by: Shylynne on June 03, 2004, 08:17:07 AM
Ecc 2:8 ...I gat me men singers and women singers, and the delights of the sons of men, [as] musical instruments, and that of all sorts.

Psa 33:3  Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.

ok there we have it, all sorts of instruments and a lot of loud noise lol

some of today`s christian music definately falls into that category (http://www.activistsandiego.org/wwwboard/images/smiles/rolleyes.gif)


Title: Re:Biblical Philosophy of Music
Post by: Shylynne on October 31, 2004, 04:18:47 PM
Secular Music - by Conrad  

The ever burning question in many Christians' hearts is, "Can I listen to secular music?" There is something already wrong with this question. The problem that is inherent in a statement like this is separating music into Sacred and Secular, Spiritual and Non-Spiritual.

I'll start from the beginning literally. Only God existed. He made stuff like heaven, angels, the world and cows. He also created music. God created everything to glorify himself (See the Faith section for more). There is not one thing that was created that did not glorify God. Can God make something that does not glorify himself? No. God did not make a sacred and a secular, everything to God was God's. In God's universe there is no such separation, all is unified as glorifying to God.

So if I wrote a song about cows and sausages, there would be nothing wrong with that. As a Christian I can write songs about algebra and the circulatory system and meeting girls. God created all those things. Why would it be wrong to sing about such things? I am singing about God's wonderful creation, and at the same time using a God created medium music.

So why do so many Christians get so upset about a band of Christians not preaching in their lyrics or from stage? Why do Christians say, "They're just singing about bikes and food, they're not ministering, therefore its not glorifying to God?" When one thinks like this its shows that they don't understand that God created one universe - one universe glorifying to God. In this universe both spiritual and physical things all glorify God. But this other view creates a false dichotomy, a false separation. In this separation comes the view of - God is in the spiritual and not in the non-spiritual (the secular). If its not spiritual then it is non-spiritual, that is secular, and secular is evil. And the only things that are spiritual are things like Jesus, the Bible, evangelism, and discipleship. In the secular there are things like bikes, food, physics and cows. Therefore, in this thinking, you cannot sing about the secular and still glorify God.

But if that were the case then that would mean that if other God created things are "non-spiritual" then they are not glorifying to God, and therefore evil. That would mean a "secular" job like accounting is not glorifying to God and therefore useless or evil. That would mean Adam's God-given task of farming was useless, and Christ's carpentry was useless. Christ has now been reduced to doing things not glorifying to himself.

You see the evil in splitting God's world into a sacred and secular? Believing that non-spiritual is useless leads us into thinking that God does useless things. It leads us to think our jobs are useless to God, and that we must trudge through our jobs just so we can get to Sundays, the only spiritual day and therefore the only useful day. Very destructive thinking.

You do not have to justify music and art and cows and food. God made it, its good, its justified.

But that is not to say that music cannot be used for evil.

PART II

Can one separate the music from the band and evil lyrics? The best way to answer this question is with a few examples.

Example #1:
Food is good. But can be used for evil, such as gluttony. The food is not evil, the sin is.

Example #2:
Money is not evil. But idolizing money is. The idolization is evil, not the money.

Music by bands singing about evil things, does not make the musical notes evil, but this is where the example takes a turn. Food and money cannot sin, but bands can. So is it wrong to listen to someone sinning? No. We read in the Bible examples on people sinning throughout; we watch the news and they report on sins (murders, etc.) all the time - and we don't consider watching that a sin. But with Food and Money, if it makes you sin, you can then fix that part of your life. If music by bad bands causes you to sin, then don't listen to it. You really can't do the same with Food or Money (if they make you sin) since you need them to live. But that's what makes this music thing easier than those, you can live without music, so dealing with this type of sin is easier.

A more extreme example: Satan has said a lot of evil stuff in the Bible. It is not wrong to read his words. Satan's words in the Bible does not make literature medium or the Bible wrong. Certainly his words are a lot worse than cuss words and anything anyone has ever sung about. Merely listening to evil music (like reading Satan's evil words) is not a sin. Sin enters when the music causes you to sin.

Conclusion:
If it causes you to sin. Stop listening to it.
And one type of sin is not obeying "Honor thy father and mother," if your parents have a big problem with it (even if they are theologically wrong about it) you still must honor their wishes. I mean, so what if you can't listen to some bands, its not like they're telling you to stop eating.

PART III

Causing Others to Stumble

It was previously stated that things like music and food can be used for good - or can make us sin. Although it might not be a sin to merely hear music not intended for the Christian market, listening to it can cause some to sin in other ways. Disobeying your parents by listening to certain music when you've been told not to is a common example of music causing sin. Another example is when listening to music causes others to stumble.

First, I will go over what "causing others to stumble" is not. It is not merely offending someone, or doing something they don't like. If you hate smoking and your friend comes up and smokes around you, you might be offended and annoyed, but you are not being tempted to smoke. Stumbling involves sin.

The example that the Bible uses is in Romans 14: eating meat sacrificed to idols. The Romans, along with much of the world back then, thought that there were many gods. People would sacrifice meat to these gods, who were represented by idols. But sometimes these people converted to Christianity. Many of these new converts would not know some basic Christian doctrines. In their minds, if they bought meat from the market that the seller had "blessed" to some pagan god, this would make the meat sinful to eat.

Of course, the meat was not evil. God made the meat. Meat is good. But the new convert in the above example did not realize that. He or she thought it would be evil to eat this particular meat. He or she therefore believed it would be a sin to eat it. So, would it be a sin if he or she ate it? Yes. Not because the meat was now sinful to eat, but because the motivation for eating it was sinful. It would be like saying, "God I think it's a sin to eat this, but I'm going to eat it (and sin) anyway." That is a sin of rebellion, and not of eating.

How does causing others to stumble come into this? It comes in when you, a stronger Christian who knows that eating meat sacrificed to idols is okay, cause the weaker Christian to sin by eating that meat in front of them, tempting them. If they eat it, you are causing them to sin, and by causing them to sin, you are making them stumble.

Music, movies, alcohol, etc., are things that could make other Christians stumble. What is Paul's command in cases like those? It is to refrain from eating (listening, watching, drinking) in front of the weaker Christian.

Conclusion: We have to be cautious with our motivations and actions. Even the best of things can make us sin (e.g., reading the Bible might make us prideful). We must be careful not only for ourselves, but also for those around us. As it says in Romans 14: 15, we must act in love. So, don't just go around making weaker Christians listen to your music simply because you think it's okay - because it is now you who is sinning by not acting in love.


http://decapolis.com/faith_/pages/SecularMusicEvil.shtml


Title: Re:Biblical Philosophy of Music
Post by: Bern on November 30, 2004, 08:53:50 AM
"Merely listening to evil music (like reading Satan's evil words) is not a sin. Sin enters when the music causes you to sin. "

It depends what the context is. If you simply happen to hear it playing, then no, thats not sinful, if you are listening to it in order to discuss it, then no, thats not sinful. If you are listening to it because you enjoy it, and you know it to be evil, then yes, that is sinful. you may not think it causes you to sin, but that doesn't mean it isn't stirring up within you you're old nature, or subtlly undermining God's Word.
Knowingly listening to music that promotes a rebellious attitude to God is sinful. It is rebellion.


1 Samuel 15:23  For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry...

I'm not saying that I don't listen to "secular" music, because I do. What I am saying is that we must be careful that anything we listen to doesn't have a bad effect on us.

Music is more powerful than people imagine it to be. Like many other things it can become an idol in someones life, an addiction if you like.. that is why Satan has so successfully used music to promote his evil standards. It is also one of the few mediums that requires no thought on the part of the reciever. How often have you heard teenagers on the bus singing some horrible lyrics, that half the time, they don't even understand. Satan is subtle.