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Theology => Debate => Topic started by: Hugh-MANN on March 17, 2012, 03:04:17 PM



Title: Are the Pentecostal Signs Being Restored?
Post by: Hugh-MANN on March 17, 2012, 03:04:17 PM
 Re: Are the Pentecostal Signs Being Restored?
Reply #32 on: May 22, 2009, 03:28:47 AM    

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Quote from: I Love Jesus on May 22, 2009, 02:36:03 AM
 
Mt. 18:19 "Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask it will be done for them by the Father in heaven.
                for where two or more are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

                    In other words all we have to do is agree with another person that what we are asking for is good and in accordance
with what Jesus taught us.
        It doesn't really matter if we"re going to heaven or hell.
       And it goes without saying the Father's name will still be glorified.

               


Wrong! One needs a basic start in trying to understand the Bible, knowing who the speaker is, knowing the intended audience, understanding the historical setting, understanding the purpose, etc., etc., etc. Taking a Bible Verse out of context and trying to form a doctrine results in a gross misunderstanding of the Holy Bible, especially if one forming that doctrine is lost or is a baby Christian with little or no knowledge of the Holy Bible. These false doctrines also hurt the Lord's Work because they aren't true and don't work. As an example, you aren't an Apostle directly appointed by God, and God has NOT given you any supernatural powers. The office of Apostle was closed by God almost 2,000 years ago, and that's the time that you're trying to talk about.

The Holy Bible also talks about people being able to drink poison and bit by deadly snakes without being hurt. DON'T TRY IT! You aren't one of the people God was talking to, nor will you be.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 2:16 ASV  in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
 

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Tom,
 
Since the last reply to this thread was back in 2009,  I thought it best to start a new thread!
 
I agree that I LOVE JESUS was wrong, (even among the NAME IT AND CLAIM IT CROWD, his conclusions are a bit extreme)!
 
There is unlimited POWER and AUTHORITY in the name of JESUS, but the seven sons of Sceva learned the hard way that there are interlocks in place to prevent unauthorized usage of the NAME!  see Acts 19:13-16
 
I also agree with what you have said about RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH,
 
Wrong! One needs a basic start in trying to understand the Bible, knowing who the speaker is, knowing the intended audience, understanding the historical setting, understanding the purpose, etc., etc., etc. Taking a Bible Verse out of context and trying to form a doctrine results in a gross misunderstanding of the Holy Bible, especially if one forming that doctrine is lost or is a baby Christian with little or no knowledge of the Holy Bible. These false doctrines also hurt the Lord's Work because they aren't true and don't work.
 
 Then you continued,
 
As an example, you aren't an Apostle directly appointed by God, and God has NOT given you any supernatural powers.
 
How could you possibly know that??????
In this case, it might be a safe bet, however, this statement is not based on any possible knowledge of  the person calling theirself  I LOVE JESUS or of what God has appointed him to be, rather, this statement is based upon your own beliefs and interpretations as a CESSATIONIST, and also as an ULTRADISPENSATIONALIST. which is just another word for BULLINGERISM!
 
The office of Apostle was closed by God almost 2,000 years ago, and that's the time that you're trying to talk about.


Mt. 18:19 "Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask it will be done for them by the Father in heaven.
                for where two or more are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them."


Your line of reasoning seems to be, "This statement was made only to His DISCIPLES, (who would soon become APOSTLES), but since there are no more APOSTLES, this PROMISE made by JESUS does not apply to the CHURCH today!
 
Your line of reasoning also seems to be,  "This statement was made during the Dispensation of the LAW, but it speaks of the Dispensation of the KINGDOM, (Pentecost to Paul), but the Church is now in the Dispensation of GRACE (MYSTERY), so again this PROMISE made by JESUS does not apply to the CHURCH today!
 
 Then you closed with the following,
 
The Holy Bible also talks about people being able to drink poison and bit by deadly snakes without being hurt. DON'T TRY IT! You aren't one of the people God was talking to, nor will you be.

 
Discussion,

Christians are notorious for reading someone elses' mail and then trying to claim the promises made to someone else, at a different time, under a different set of circumstances!

 Malachi 3:8-12,  Philippians 4:19  Matthew 6:25-34 are some classic examples of this!

However,

Your rejection of I LOVE JESUS' interpretation is for the wrong reasons, and essentially you are  THROWING OUT  THE BABY WITH THE BATH WATER! Matthew 18:19 is valid even today and has nothing to do with Apostleship and Dispensations! It has everything to do with what happens when the the Body of Christ assembles itself together,  And  It has everything to do with understanding the difference between the Perfect Will of God and the Permissive Will of God!
 
 I will continue this later,

Your Brother in Christ

Hugh


Title: Re: Are the Pentecostal Signs Being Restored?
Post by: nChrist on March 17, 2012, 04:01:44 PM
No, I am NOT an ultra-dispensationalist, nor am I a Bullingerite. All of the Apostles were in the presence of Christ and were appointed directly by Christ to the office of Apostle. The office of Apostle is closed and has been for almost 2,000 years. There's nothing wild or radical about that statement - just a matter of fact.

Just as other things have most obviously changed according to God's Word:

1 Corinthians 13:8-13 (KJV)  8 Charity never faileth: but whether [there be] prophecies, they shall fail; whether [there be] tongues, they shall cease; whether [there be] knowledge, it shall vanish away.   9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.   10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.   11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.   12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.   13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these [is] charity.

Acts 2:4-8 KJV  And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.  5  And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.  6  Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.  7  And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?  8  And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

It's a matter of common sense in rightly dividing God's Word. As an example, this is one reason why we don't make burnt offerings today. It's usually never wise to jump to the conclusion that someone is an "ite" or "ist" of some sort, especially when the information given is nothing but common sense.