ChristiansUnite Forums

Theology => Apologetics => Topic started by: Ambassador4Christ on May 07, 2003, 05:36:40 PM



Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 07, 2003, 05:36:40 PM
How many people, even Christian people, live in fear these days! They consider how we have gone from atom bombs to hydrogen bombs to nitrogen bombs, with megatons of explosive power. They read about all the deadly weapons being perfected by countries all over the world, and they fear that frightful destruction may at any time overtake them.

It does indeed appear that this world is headed toward the prophesied destruction, but true believers should understand that God has clearly predicted that He will recall His ambassadors before giving the world up in judgment.

Paul, the apostle of grace, made it clear that no one can tell how long the dispensation of grace will last, but he did declare that this age would close with the coming of our Lord for His own.

"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

"Wherefore comfort one another with these words" (I Thes. 4: 16-18).

In the next chapter, we have the prediction of the pouring
out of God's wrath on the world but the believer in Christ
will escape this.

Thus Paul reminded the Thessalonians how they had turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; and to wait for His Son from heaven. .." (1 Thes. 1:9,10). Thus too he reminded the Philippians: "Our conversation [citizenship] is in heaven, from whence also we look for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ" (Phil. 3:20). And thus, finally, he instructed Titus to be looking for that blessed hope, and the appearing in glory of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ".


Title: THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 07, 2003, 05:40:55 PM
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/prepare_to_fly.gif)


Title: THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 07, 2003, 05:51:46 PM
You've probably heard someone proclaim confidently that rapture is not in the Bible. Many have accepted this challenge to the truth at face value. But contrary to popular belief, the concept and the word "rapture" are in the Bible.

"These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so." Acts 17:11

The Root of the Issue

The Bible has been translated into many languages from the original languages in which it was written (mainly Hebrew and Koine Greek). We must keep this in mind when we affirm that something is or is not in "the Bible." The common Latin verb "rapere" (root of the English "rapture") is in the Latin Bible (2 Cor. 12:4; 1 Thes. 4:17). It is translated from the original New Testament Greek verb "harpazo." This is where we derive the English word "harpoon" from. Most English Bibles translate it as "caught up." However it could just as easily be translated "carried away," "snatched up," "seized away by force," or "raptured" (see "catch" in Vine's Dict.)! In other words "rapture," "harpazo" and "catch up" are all synonyms in three different languages (Latin, Greek, English) which are in "the Bible." Before saying something is not in the Bible, it must first be defined.

"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32

Testing the Rule

The word "rapture" may not be in most English translations of the Bible. However, to say that it is not in "the Bible" attains to the ignorance of saying that the Hebrew words Yahweh (LORD) or Yeshua (Jesus or Joshua) are not in the Bible. The same unsound reasoning could also be used to dismiss the legitimacy of the word "Bible." It is not actually in the translated text of the English Bible, but it is a transliteration of the New Testament Greek word "biblion" ("book" in Lk. 4:17). The word "trinity/triunity" is yet another Biblical term not found in the Bible. However the concept of the three persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) of the "Godhead" (Rom. 1:20, Col. 2:9) sharing one divine nature is undeniable fact (Deut. 6:4; Mt. 3:16, 28:19; Jn 10:30; 14:16; 1 Cor. 12:4-6; 2 Cor. 5:19; Eph. 1:3-14; Php. 2:6...). Furthermore, in addition to the rapture, many English concepts are also labeled with Latin names (plants, animals, music, grammatics, etc.). For Latin has historically been considered the language of education, religion and science. This same critical examination should be used anytime a sound Biblical doctrine is challenged. Especially on as shaky ground as this.

"Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables." 2 Timothy 4:2-4


In summary, yes! Rapture is in "the Bible." The Latin derivative "rapture" is a synonym for the English "catch up." Both terms are translated from the Greek "harpazo." All three terms are found in the Bible which corresponds to their respective languages (2 Cor. 12:4; 1 Thes. 4:17). Therefore it is Biblical and perfectly appropriate that the event of First Thessalonians four be referred to as the Rapture.

"Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up (harpazo, raptured) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words." 1 Thes. 4:17-18

MARANATHA!!! (1 Cor. 16:22, Aramaic: "Our Lord, come")




Title: THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 07, 2003, 05:56:16 PM
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/prepare_to_fly.gif)


Title: THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 07, 2003, 06:04:44 PM
Confused about Christ's Coming? There are many Second Coming Bible passages which are frequently mistaken for the Rapture. Some times they are even taught as if they were one and the same. Even more confusion exists regarding when the Rapture occurs in relation to the Tribulation. But the student of the Scriptures would do well to pay close attention to the contrasting traits and purposes of each event.

"True wisdom is not manifested in trying to see resemblances in things which differ, but in discerning the real difference among those which resemble one another." - Unknown (see: Rom. 2:18; Php. 1:10)

This article is a study aid designed to be read in conjunction with the mentioned Bible references. These are the basic questions which will be answered by this article.

What is the Rapture, Tribulation and Second Coming?
Where do we find these concepts in the Bible?
What is the purpose of the Tribulation?
How do these three prophetic events relate to each other?
What resources are available for further study?

The Rapture

Is "rapture" in the Bible? Yes! The Latin derivative "rapture" is a synonym for the English "catch up" (2 Cor. 12:4; 1 Thes. 4:17). Both terms are translated from the original New Testament Greek verb "harpazo." All three terms are found in the Bible (which corresponds to their respective languages).

1 Thessalonians 4:17-18 "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words."

The Rapture will conclude this grace dispensation (Eph. 3:2) and precede the future 7 year Tribulation (2 Thes. 2). In 2 Thes. 2:2 "the departure" has the Greek definite article and is refering back to the previously mentioned rapture. Although there was at least one Old Testament allusion/type/foreshadowing (Enoch raptured a period of 7 since Adam and a period of 7/one generation before the flood/judgement: Gen. 5:24; Mt. 24: 34; Heb. 11:5; Jude 1:14) of the Rapture, it is only specifically referred to in the Pauline epistles. Why? Because the rapture was part of the secret mystery revealed through Paul for believers in the dispensation of grace (1 Cor. 15). The next prophesied event which concerns us is the Rapture. Christ's secret coming is imminent (1 Cor. 1:7; 16:22; Php. 3:20; 4:5; 1 Thes. 1:10; *** . 2:13). We are not told to look for Antichrist or the "abomination of desolation", but for Christ's Rapture. The pretribulational approach is the only interpretation which takes the Bible literally and brings us His promised comfort.

"About the Time of the End, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the Prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamor and opposition" - Sir Isaac Newton (McClain, Alva. Daniel's Prophecy of the 70 Weeks. Pg. 2)

Rapture Bible Verses

Rom. 8: 19-25; 1 Cor. 1:7-8; 15:51-53; 16:22; 2 Cor. 12:4?; Gal. 5:5; Php. 3:20-21; 4:5; Col. 3:4; 1 Thes. 1:10; 2:1, 3, 19; 3:13; 4:13-18; 5:9, 23; 2 Thes. 2:1, 3, 7; 1 Tim. 3:14-15?; 6:14; 2 Tim. 4:18; Titus 2:11-13; (NOT Rev. 3:10; 4:1!)

Purpose of the Tribulation

All believers are promised general tribulation (suffering) in this life (Rom. 5:3; 2 Cor. 12:10; Php. 1:29; 1 Thes. 3:3; 1 Pet. 1:7; 2:19; 4:12). However, believers in this dispensation are promised deliverance (Rom. 5:9?; 1 Thes. 1:9-10; 5:9; 2 Thes. 2:3, 7) "from the wrath to come" (the 7 year Tribulation).

1 Thessalonians 1:10 "...and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come."

To know whether we will participate in any part of the Tribulation, we need to know God's purpose for Daniel's 70th week of years. Who is the Tribulation for? "Jacob's (father of Israel) trouble" is stated only to be for Israel (Jer. 30:7; Dan. 9:20-25) and unbelievers (1 Thes. 1:8; 2:12), not us. We will be taken away before antichrist is revealed (2 Thes. 2:7). The reasons for the Tribulation are for God to exercise His wrath on the Christ rejecting world and to prepare the remnant of Israel (including Gentile proselytes) for it's promised King (my Lord Jesus Christ) and earthly kingdom (Deut. 4:29-30; Jer. 30:3-11; Zech. 12:10).

Tribulation Scripture References

Dan. 8:24-27; 12:1-2; Mt. 13:30-50; 24:15-31; 1 Thes. 1:9-10; 5:4-9; 2 Thes. 2:1-11; Rev. 4-18; 6:16-17; Jer. 30:7; Dan. 9:20-25; 1 Thes. 1:8; 2:12; Deut. 4:29-30; Jer. 30:3-11; Zech. 12:10

The Second Coming

Remember that all the Bible is for us (Rom. 15:4; 1 Cor. 10:6; 2 Tim. 3:16), but only the apostle Paul's letters are 100% applicable to us (Acts 9:15; 22:21; 26:17; Rom. 2:16; 11:13; 16:25; Gal. 2:8-9; Eph. 3:1, 8; Col. 1:27; 1 Tim. 2:7, 2 Tim. 1:11; 2:8) in the dispensation of grace. All references to Christ's coming in the Jewish (non-Pauline) letters are referring to the second coming of Christ at the end of the future 7 year tribulation. There are also a few references to Christ's coming in judgment in the Thessalonian letters.

Zechariah 14:3-4a "Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. And in that day [end of the Tribulation] His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east."

There were also many Old Testament allusions (foreshadows, types, examples) to the second advent of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Noah (remnant of Israel) was saved through the flood (global judgment).
Lot (believing remnant) flees (to the hills) the destruction of Sodom (spiritual Jerusalem).
Parables of Jesus often have a first and second coming divided by a king in exile aspect .
Moses (foreshadow of the Prophet to come, Jesus), David and Joseph had a first (lowly) and second (kingly) coming divided by a period of exile (dispensation of grace, Eph. 3, Rom. 11).
The plagues and the exodus foreshadow in microcosm the world wide tribulation and deliverance of the remnant of Israel from Armageddon.

Second Coming Cross-References

Deut. 30:3; 32:41-42; Dan. 2:44-45, 7:9-14; 12:1-3; Ez. 43:2-7; Zech. 12:10; 14:1-15; 41:1-3 Mt. 13:14; 23:39; 24: 15-44, 48-51; 25:13, 31; 26:64; Mk. 13:14-27; 14:62; Lk. 12:36-48; 17:24; 21:25-28; Jn. 14:1-3; Acts 1:9-11; 3:19-21; 15:14-17; 1 Thes. 5:3; 2 Thes. 1:6-10; 2:2, 8; Heb. 9:28; James 5:7-9; 1 Pet. 1:7, 13; 4:12-13; 5:4; 2 Pet. 3:1-14; 1 Jn. 2:28-3:2; Jude 14-15; Rev. 1:7-8; 19:11-20:6; 22:7, 12, 20; Rev. 1:10; 2:25; 3:10; 4:1; 19:11-21; 22:20

Differences

The Second Coming (Revelation 19, Zechariah 14, Matthew 24, Daniel 7) is not the Rapture (1&2 Thessalonians, 1 Corinthians 15). The Rapture takes place before the 7 year Tribulation (wrath of God/Lamb, the day of the Lord, Jacob's trouble, Daniel's 70th week, the great day of His wrath, etc.). It is a secret coming in the air (not on the ground) for (not with) the believers of all nations. Jesus never touches the ground and the world does not see him. The resurrection of the rapture takes place during (not after) Christ's partial decent.

The second coming is 180 degrees different. It occurs at the end of the 7 year Tribulation. The resurrection of tribulation saints takes place after (Rev. 19-20) Christ's complete decent of the second advent. The unbelievers are taken away (Mt. 13) as the Lord returns to the earth to save Israel (Rom. 11, Rev. 19). It is not a secret, for it is seen by the whole world (Mt. 24:30). Although there are a few similarities (clouds, Jesus, believers, coming) between the Rapture (secret, air, church, pre-trib., deliverance) and the Second Coming (public, ground, Israel, post-trib., vengeance), let us discern the differences. For this purpose, I highly recommend the resources below.



When reading writings on prophecy, it will serve you well to keep in mind that direct rapture passages only occur in the Pauline books of the Bible (Rom. - Phm.). All references to the coming of Christ in the non-Pauline books are referring to His second coming/advent to save Israel. Just as Moses was the primary revelator to Israel "under the law" program, so Paul is our apostle in "the dispensation of the grace of God" (Rom. 6:14; 11:13; 2 Cor. 5:16; Gal. 2:8; 5:18; Eph. 3:2; 2 Tim. 3:8-10). Therefore it only makes sense that our apostle and not the 12 apostles of the law/kingdom program would receive and convey our "blessed hope" of resurrection and rapture. Hence we are "looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13).

MARANATHA!!! (1 Cor. 16:22, Aramaic: "Our Lord, come")



Title: THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 07, 2003, 06:07:11 PM
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/prepare_to_fly.gif)


Title: THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 08, 2003, 01:04:07 PM
In Matthew 24:37-42, we are told that conditions on the earth prior to the Lords coming will be similar to those in Noahs day.

The record in Genesis 6:5-7 states that, "the thoughts of mens hearts were only evil continually," and, "the Lord was grieved that he made man upon the earth."

An honest appraisal of present-day morals must conclude that we are heading in the same direction. To the Lords people, it is a comforting thought that when evil has reached its peak, God always calls a halt. It was so in Noahs day. While the multitude of people were "eating and drinking, marrying and being given in marriage," entirely indifferent to their eternal welfare, suddenly the flood came and took them all away. Only Noah and his family were spared because they had entered the ark. Those who were "taken" died in the flood.

"That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field. One will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill. One will be taken and the other left (Matthew 24:39-41).

Taken where?

Not to Heaven, as is sometimes taught, but to judgment. The one who is left will enter the kingdom which Christ will have come to establish.

To God's people in this present evil age, the Apostle Paul by inspiration tells of a secret coming of Christ (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 15:51,52). Then, instead of being "taken away," members of the Body of Christ will be "caught up" to meet the Lord in the air and "so shall we ever be with the Lord."

How wonderful to have this hope of being "caught up" and not "taken away." It can be yours by simply believing the good news, trusting in Jesus Christ for your forgiveness and eternal salvation.

"God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God" (2 Corinthians 5:21).

"Therefore, having been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:1).



Title: THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 08, 2003, 01:05:54 PM
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/prepare_to_fly.gif)


Title: THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 08, 2003, 04:28:42 PM
The rapture has several purposes: (1) It brings the all true grace age believers, whether living or dead, together forever. (2) It is "that blessed hope" (Titus 2:13) which will bring us together with our Lord Jesus Christ, who is the head of the body. (3) It motivates us to watch in faith, love, and hope (1 Thessalonians 5:6-8). (4) It is a comfort to us as 1 Thessalonians 4:18 says. It rescues us from the wrath that God is about to pour out upon those that dwell upon the earth in the tribulation. (5) It fulfills the prophecy of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. When God says He is going to do something, it has to happen. (6) It ends this dispensation of grace by removing the church from the earth. Then, the Old Testament form of worship and the kingdom program can resume, with God's focus being on the nation of Israel the seven years which is the last week of years in the 70 weeks or years described in Daniel 9:24-27. This is yet another of God's prophecies which must be fulfilled.


Title: THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 08, 2003, 04:31:00 PM
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/prepare_to_fly.gif)


Title: THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 09, 2003, 01:23:46 PM
Its seams like we are having so many disasters happening in the world today, that maybe we are getting close to the end time. Fires, floods, tornadoes and so many other things. It seams like people would wonder how much longer this world will be able to take all the destruction. I am thankful for all the people who are doing all they can to try and put out the fires and helping everyone they can. But I believe Christ is coming back before man destroys this world. We have computers now and that is all we need for the antichrist to be able to control the world. In the Book of Revelations chapter 13:16-17, and he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads. Verse 17, and that no one may buy or sell except those who take the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. You can read Revelations chapter 13:14-18,  and you will be able to understand how computers will be used to fulfill the Scriptures. When you go to buy food or other things they have computers to scan the things you buy. I wouldnt want to be left behind when the Lord comes back for His Church, 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, Behold I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible and we shall be changed. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18, for this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep, for the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. I want to try to help to win everyone I can to the Lord. In Romans 10:13 for whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Now we have the terrorists in our country and some are afraid to fly or get into crowds since we dont know what will happen next. We have never thought things would get so bad in this Great Country of freedom we live in but it is here!



Title: THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 09, 2003, 01:25:18 PM
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/prepare_to_fly.gif)


Title: THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 09, 2003, 10:31:12 PM
Can people who reject Jesus Christ before the rapture still get saved during the tribulation?

Referring to the Anti-Christ, 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 says he will come, "... with all power and signs and lying wonders. And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." Those that "received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved" must be those who rejected the gospel of grace prior to the rapture. From this passage, it looks like those who have rejected the gospel of grace before the rapture, do not get another chance after the rapture. I will not go so far as to be dogmatic about this doctrine for which I only know of one passage of scripture. But I must admit that this does look very clear. They will believe the lie, and accept the mark of the Beast, if they live that long. Even so, there will be many from all nations saved after the rapture, during the tibulation. I believe these are those who did not hear the gospel of grace before the rapture. These tribulation saints are those that will respond to the gospel of the kingdom preached by the 2 witnesses and the 144,000 young, virgin, men of Israel.



Title: THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 09, 2003, 10:33:00 PM
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/prepare_to_fly.gif)


Title: THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 10, 2003, 08:03:26 AM
Those Christians who are alive when the rapture occurs will all be raptured. Any adult who does not believe the gospel of grace will not be raptured. But the question of whether children who are too young to believe the gospel will be raptured or not is a difficult one, which I cannot answer completely. However, there are some scriptures that provide some insight. On the surface, there seem to be 3 possibilities for any one particular child: (1) The child will be raptured and go to heaven, (2) The child will remain on earth and be saved during the tribulation. (3) The child will remain on earth and not be saved during the tribulation.

We know that King David (himself a prophet), after the death of his infant child, said "I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me" (2 Samuel 12:23). We know that King David went to paradise (the place of comfort where the old testament saints went prior to the resurrection of Jesus Christ), and later, to heaven. From this we know that at least some babies and young children who die, will go to heaven. This does not necessarily mean that all babies go to heaven. Nor does it say that some babies will be raptured. But this passage does tell us that some babies that die will go to heaven. It therefore seems reasonable that some babies and very young children will be raptured.

We must keep in that mind God is all-knowing, even about the future. A trillion years ago, God knew what clothes you would wear today and how many hairs would be on your head. So God knows what an infant will turn out to be when he grows up. Would it have been just for God to have taken the life of Adolf Hitler when he was an infant and to have sent him to hell? Or would it only have been just for God to have waited until Hitler had killed millions of people first? Obviously, God, in His sovereignty, did the latter. However, I see no reason, as far as justice is concerned, why the all-knowing God could not have done the former, if He so chose.

We do know of many instances in which children were put to death along with their parents by God, as in the great flood (Genesis 8:21), or by his orders, as in the conquest of the land of Canaan (Joshua 6:21). This was the punishment for evil people whom God knew would get more and more evil with each successive generation. Because of passages like these, I believe that some babies will not be raptured.

There are some who believe that the faith of one or more of the parents covers the child until the child is old enough to make a choice. They often refer to 1 Corinthians 7:13-14 as evidence. However, it seems unclear whether this scripture passage can be properly applied to the topic of the rapture.

It may very well be that God, with His all-knowing, future-knowing wisdom, will make His decision based upon what that child would have become, had he been allowed to remain on earth. Paul tells us about Jacob and Esau in Romans 9:11-13, "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth It was said unto her (Rebecca, their mother), The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." This brings up the question, what if the pregnant Rebecca had been a Christian at the time of the rapture? Would she and unborn Jacob have been raptured to heaven and unborn Esau transported directly to hell? Who can say? But I would certainly not discount that possibility.

One thing is absolutely certain. God is just and will do the thing that is just. We must be careful that we do not try to put ourselves in God's shoes and try to make the judgement for him. I think this is what some people do when they try to say that "all babies will go to heaven" based upon their unscriptural opinion of "the character of God" and their own opinion about what would be just. God said in Isaiah 55:8-9, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."



Title: THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 10, 2003, 08:05:59 AM
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/prepare_to_fly.gif)


Title: THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 10, 2003, 03:41:37 PM
At some future time (we don't know when), before the tribulation, the trump of God and the voice of the archangel will signal the catching away of the true church. Then all of the souls of the Christians who have died will return to their dead bodies, which will be instantly changed to immortal, incorruptible, eternal bodies and come out of their graves. Then we who are left alive will not die, but our bodies will be instantly changed into immortal, incorruptible, eternal bodies. Then we will be caught up into the clouds to meet our fellow Christians who have died and our Lord Jesus Christ in the air. Then we all shall be with the Lord forever.
We know this from 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-55 which are the two places in scripture which speak the most about our being caught up into heaven (commonly referred to as the rapture). This is not to be confused with the second coming of Christ at the end of the tribulation at which times Christ's feet will touch down upon the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4).



Title: THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 10, 2003, 03:43:35 PM
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/prepare_to_fly.gif)


Title: THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 10, 2003, 08:40:41 PM

The Christian who understands his Bible will be very careful in pointing to every current event as though it were prophecy fulfilled. The cause of Christ has been brought into disrepute many times because of some am-bitious (although sincere) Christian who has endeavored to say "This is that" without a thorough understanding of the Scriptures.

When Mussolini set out to restore the Roman Em-pire, the "experts" pointed to Revelation 13 and said "This is that," but they were wrong. When Russia and Germany entered into a non-aggression pact, many sin-cere students of the Word pointed to Ezekiel 38 and said, "This is that," but they were wrong again as history has proved. When Japan became a world power, we were again pointed to Revelation 16:12 and were told "this is that," but they were wrong, and they will continue to be wrong as long as they try to fit Jewish prophecy into the Church age.

Let us learn one basic truth in regard to prophecy. In a most general way, prophecy concerning the return of our Lord has to do with His return in Glory...and not with His coming at the Rapture.

No prophecy need be fulfilled in order for the Rapture to take place. The Rapture (the translation of the Church, which is the body of Christ...1 Thess.4:13-18), is not dependent on prophecy. It my happen any time any moment, any minute. Perhaps today our Lord will call for His Church.

"Behold, I show you a mystery, we shall not all sleep but we shall all (believers) be changed; in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump. For the trum-pet shall sound and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed"...1 Corinthians 15:51,52.


Title: THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 10, 2003, 08:42:12 PM
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/prepare_to_fly.gif)


Title: THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 11, 2003, 08:45:31 AM
Read: 1 Cor. 15:45-49

Paul, under divine inspiration, explains the heart cry of every believer as not being "unclothed, but clothed upon" ( 2 Cor. 5:2). He means by this that the yearning of the saints is not to only drop "this body of humiliation," but to acquire a new identity.

Our text (vs. 49) indicates there is a reasonableness to this teaching about the future likeness. Just as surely as we "have borne the image of the earthy" so, we find "we shall also bear the image of the heavenly..." No, our blessed Lord did not speculate, nor guess. This is a bonafide established fact, one we shall experience--some sooner, some later, if death be the time.

Being as every reader is, none are equipped to enjoy nor appreciate what this shall be--this new image. Possessing a body, "fashioned like unto his glorious body... (Phil. 3:21 ), is a truth about which we can do nothing more than speculate and rejoice. But, at the present time, none of us are adapted so as to enjoy. We need a change! We must have first, a detached image.

At the time of the Rapture 1 Th. 4:13-18) or the rescuing of the Body of Christ from the earth, "we shall be changed..." ( 1Cor. 15:52). There is the TIME. No, there will be no change until then. There is no such thing as the eradication of the flesh in this present life. And, the change will come prior to the tribulation of Daniel 9. The time is set, We learn: "this corruptible must put on incorruption..." (1 Cor. 15:53). Praise God!


Title: THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 11, 2003, 08:47:13 AM
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/prepare_to_fly.gif)


Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 12, 2003, 01:02:55 PM
To understand why the 'Rapture' and the 'Second Coming' are two separate events divided by the Tribulation we need to understand the following. The Rapture was a mystery revealed through the Apostle Paul and is for the Church called the Body of Christ, but the Second Coming has always been prophesied and is for the Old Testament saints and Israel's deliverance at the end of the Tribulation to begin Christ's kingdom reign on earth. The following shows the distinct character of each and should not be confused with each other.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ

This event is for Israel and other Gentile people saved through their kingdom gospel. It has always been known about in Old Testament prophecy. Prophecies which God has spoken - since the world began [Acts 3:21].

It says of the Messiah when He returns in that day 'His feet will stand on the mount of olives'. 'The Lord shall be King over all the earth'. Zechariah 14:4,5,8,9. 'I will return to Zion and dwell in the midst of Jerusalem' Zechariah 8:3-8. 'The One to be ruler over Israel' Micah 5:2. 'and the government shall be upon His shoulder.' Isaiah 9:6. These verse clearly tell of a literal reign on earth by the Messiah of Israel.

So why hasn't this happened to Israel as God never goes back on His promises [Num.23:19, Romans 11:29]. God has not changed, nor His promises to Israel, but because of their disobedience and stubborn hearts God has not been able to yet fulfill what was prophesied for them. 'Has God cast away His people who He foreknew'? No but they have been set aside until the fullness of the Gentiles is complete [Romans 11:1,25]. This Gentile time is the present dispensation of the grace of God for the Body of Christ revealed by Paul in Ephesians 3:2.

THE PROPHETIC PROGRAM.

Because Israel as a nation rejected the offer of the prophesied kingdom on earth for them they have been set aside, and the prophetic events are being held in abeyence. [Acts 3:17-26, 13:46]. Prophetic events of the Old Testament that have not been fulfilled begin again after the Church is taken to glory, when the 70th week of Daniel begins.
Many were slow of heart to believe that the Christ had to die [ Luke 24:44-46]. Neither Israel or their twelve kingdom apostles realized that their Messiah had to suffer and die before the kingdom on earth could begin [Matthew 16:21,22]. Jesus returned to glory and the kingdom was offered to Israel by Peter at Pentecost and later by Stephen. They refused the offer, so Christ's Second Coming and His kingdom reign must wait for a future time [Acts.2: 29-39. 3:18-26. 13:4

THE SECOND COMING.

The Lord is coming is back to the earth as was promised to the kingdom Apostles [Acts 1:11].

The Revelation of Jesus Christ - To Earth [Zechariah 14: 5].

The Lord comes with 10,000s of his holy angels [Jude 14].

'and the armies of heaven followed Him on white horses' [Revelation 19: 11-14].

'Immediately after the tribulation of those days- they will see the Son of Man coming- with power and great glory' Matthew 24:27-31.

FOR JUDGMENT.

'In flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God.' 2 Thessalonians 1:7,8.

'and destroy with the brightness of His coming' 2 Thessalonians 2:8.

'The Lord comes - to execute judgment on all' Jude 15.

'Immediately after the tribulation of those day' Matthew 24:29, which is called, 'The day of the Lord' [2 Thessalonians 2:2. 2 Peter 3:10].

His return will be to the Mount of Olives from where He left His disciples. This Second Coming is prophetic and is what has always been known about in the scriptures. It is the event that brings to close the Great Tribulation. The wicked will be destroyed, Satan will be bound, Israel will be delivered - and the earthly Kingdom will begin where Christ will reign from Jerusalem over the earth with redeemed Israel as the head nation.



The church which is His Body was a mystery hidden in God.
The Body of Christ and its rapture to be with the Lord were both secrets - mysteries hidden in God until the Lord revealed them to the Apostle Paul. Therefore we do not confuse them with the prophetic coming and kingdom for Israel.

The 'Mystery of Christ' which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men. Ephesians.3: 1-12. '- according to the revelation of the mystery which has kept secret since the world began' Romans 16:25-27. 'and that He might reconcile both Jew and Gentile to God in one body through the cross' Eph 2:14- 3:6. 'the mystery which has been hidden from ages--which is Christ in you the hope of glory' Colossians 1: 26,27. 'By one Spirit we are all baptized into one body' 1 Corinthians.12: 13. This is the ONE Baptism of Ephesians 4:5 which unites believes to Christ and places them in the 'Body of Christ'. As the 'Body of Christ' was a mystery only revealed to the Apostle Paul then it could not have begun before his time and will FINISH at THE RAPTURE. The Body of Christ began as a mystery and will end in mystery, the secret return of Christ for His saints before the tribulation.



THE RAPTURE. [secret, heavenly]

'Our citizenship is in heaven from where we also eagerly wait for the Saviour' Philippians 3:20.

'The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord'. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

But before believers return with the Lord to heaven something needs to happen. 'Now this I say brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed - For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality' 1 Corinthians 15: 50-53. This spiritual change of the body will be very necessary for heavenly dwelling. Read also 2 Corinthians 5:1-8.

FOR BLESSING/ SALVATION

'Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who has blessed us with every spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ', 'and raised us up together and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus' Ephesians 1:3, 2:6,7.

The blessed hope of the believer is Jesus Christ's return. 'Looking for the blessed hope and the glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ' Titus 2:13. 'To those who eagerly wait for Him, He will appear a second time, apart from sin for salvation' Hebrews 9:28. ' For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him' 1 Thessalonians 5:9,10.

When we understand how much the Lord loves and cherishes the Church which is 'His Body' we see why He would never put it through that prophesied time of the great Tribulation which is for an ungodly world. The 'Body' is already as perfect and righteous in Christ as it ever can be and the Lord will, 'present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish' Ephesians 5:27. The Greek word for 'caught up' in 1Thessalonians 4:17, is 'harpazo' and one of its meanings is, 'to rescue from the danger of destruction'. Paul wrote to the Thessalonians in Ch 1:10, 'and to wait for His Son from heaven whom He [God] raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come'. As they would have known that God had already delivered them from His wrath on their sin, Paul was referring here to the wrath of God during the Tribulation time.

'Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, do not be troubled that the day of the Lord [judgment, tribulation] has already come, for that day shall not come except the aforementioned departure [of the Church to heaven] comes first and then man of lawlessness is disclosed. And you know with a positive assurance that which [namely the departure of the church, the saints being assembled together to the Lord] is preventing his being disclosed that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work only He [The Holy Spirit] who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.' 2 Thess 2:1-7. [See K.Wuest. An Expanded Translation] In verse 3 the definite article is used for "the" meaning an actual event is indicated not a gradual "falling away."



The scriptures are very clear about this difference! The Revelation - Second Coming is after the Tribulation and is for Christ to execute judgment on this evil world and set up His earthly kingdom over the nation of Israel. The mystery of the Rapture only revealed through Paul is for the church's translation to glory to be with the Lord and is before the seven years of tribulation prophesied on this world.

This glorious event reserved only for those who are saved under 'the gospel of the grace of God' [Acts 20:24] was not known before the Apostle Paul and is called the blessed hope.



Believes today do not need to fear whether they will go through part or all of the Tribulation as they will be taken to be with the Lord before this seven years of judgement for Israel and this wicked world begins. The expectation of the believer in the Body of Christ is not looking forward to judgement but that the Lord 'might deliver us from this present evil age according to the will of our God and Father' Galatians 1:4.

Looking for that blessed hope.



Title: THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 12, 2003, 01:05:34 PM
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/prepare_to_fly.gif)


Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 13, 2003, 03:06:10 PM
The age of Grace will be brought to a sudden end by the Lord's coming in the air, the Rapture. The word "rapture" is the English form of a Latin word in the Latin Vulgate (translation from Greek into Latin about 400 A.D.). The Greek word means lift up, catch up, catch away, pluck up, or pull up. In the English it is translated "caught up."

"For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:16,17)

"Behold, I show you a mystery ("a sacred secret"); We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" (1 Corinthians 15:51-55)

WHO will be caught up? All from this Dispensation of Grace who have depended on the Lord for salvation. Like a magnet, He will pick up all who have believed on Him. In the twinkling of an eye, every believer will be bodily transported upward to meet the Lord in the air.

While awaiting our departure upward, we are ambassadors and soldiers in the opportunity of holding forth the message of the Gospel of Grace (2 Corinthians 5:20; Ephesians 6:10-18). Also meantime, the Lord is working in believers with a purpose to transform us to be like Christ (Romans 12:1,2). At the instant of the Rapture, that work will be miraculously completed (Romans 8:29; Philippians 1:6). The old sinful nature will be left behind, never to be a grief to us again.

That departure is the next event in God's program. It may be at any moment, for there are no prophecies to be fulfilled before that event. No "signs" are to be looked for; instead, we serve, wait, look, and long for the Lord Himself (Philippians 3:20,21; 1 Thessalonians 1:9,10). We are "looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13).

Some think of the "Lord's coming" as a reference to the death of the believer. But at the Lord's return, the bodies of believers will come OUT of the graves. O death, where is thy sting? - for living believers will be translated, escaping death, cheating death of its sting. O grave, where is thy victory? - for the bodies of believers who have died will escape from the graves, cheating the grave.

As the looking for the Lord fills our hearts with delightful anticipation and expectation now, how much more will the reality bring inexpressible and unending joy!

Always note the sharp contrast in references to the Lord's coming for believers with the references to His return to set up His earthly Kingdom. Another contrast is that the rewards to be given after the Rapture concern work done, whereas salvation and being caught up are by Grace only, no works are involved.



Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 13, 2003, 03:08:19 PM
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/prepare_to_fly.gif)


Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 14, 2003, 02:00:36 PM
Blessed Assurance

Read: Eph. 1:3

Sadly, there are countless souls who have received the gift of salvation but have no knowledge of their most precious blessings as saints. Paramount among these is the absolute certainty of eternity with Christ. Our apostle tells us that at the moment of our believing we were "sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the re-demption of the purchased possession" (Ephesians 1:13,14).

Who are "the purchased possession"? The apostle explains. To the saints in the Body of Christ, he writes, "Your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost, which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own. For ye are bought with a price: there-fore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's" (1 Corinthians 6:19.20).

And what is meant by "the redemption of the purchased possession?" Again, our apostle gives the answer: "When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory" (Colossians 3:4). We live in expectation of this event, known as "the rapture." Paul writes that we are "looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the Great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13). So certain is our position as body members, that we are already established, spiritually, in our future eternal home. "For our conversation [citizenship] is in heaven: from whence we look for [expect] the Saviour, in Lord Jesus Christ: who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body" (Philippians 3:20,21).



Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 14, 2003, 02:02:08 PM
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/prepare_to_fly.gif)


Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 16, 2003, 12:58:50 PM
Why is the earth warming? Why are climates changing? Where do UFO's come from? Why are prophets spreading gloom and doom stories and predictions about the future? Why are psychologists, psychiatrists and mental hospitals doing a roaring business during this decade?

To answer the above questions and bring peace to troubled hearts today we need, first of all, to establish some basic facts. These facts are as follows:

There is one God, Creator of the heavens and the earth and Author of the Holy Bible which is the story of His creation and Himself (Deuteronomy 6:4.)

God is eternal (Deuteronomy 33:27.) He always has been and always will be. Before the heavens and the earth were created, God lived in His abode with myriads of angels. There were angels of many different ranks and responsibilities. They were created beings and servants of the Most High God,

God created the world, the heavens (we call them "space") and every living thing (Genesis 1:1.) They were "good" and lived together in the perfect Garden of Eden in perfect harmony.

Lucifer was a high-ranking angel in the abode of God. He was called "The Morning Star" and the Bible tells us he was beautiful and powerful and had much authority under God. But Lucifer had a change of heart and said, "I will be like the most High" and challenged God's authority (Isaiah 14:12-14.) For this disobedience (which was called "sin") Lucifer was cast out of God's abode and his domain became the earth and the space between heaven and earth (called "space"). The Bible describes Lucifer as "the old devil, the serpent, Satan, the evil one, prince of the air, god of this world, a roaring lion seeking whom he might devour and an angel of light" (Revelation 12:9; 2 Corinthians 4:4; 1 Peter 5:8.)

In Genesis we read the account of the devil who appeared in the form of a serpent. He convinced Eve she did not need to obey God. In fact, he told her that if she obeyed him, she would be like God and would know good from evil (Genesis 3:1-5.)

Consequently, Eve ate the fruit which God had forbidden and disobedience ("sin") came into the perfect creation. From that time on, mankind had to work for his living, and the animals were wild and afraid of him.

Sin and the sin nature passed to all the creation. Beasts became vicious and wild, weeds choked the gardens and man began to hate, kill and destroy one another (Genesis 3:17,18.) Satan was more than a fallen angel. With that one act of deception, he became the archenemy of God.

God promised Adam a "Deliverer" who would conquer Satan, undo his evil, and bring the creation back to its perfect form (Genesis 3:15.)

God also killed a lamb, shedding its blood to provide a covering for Adam and Eve. Thus blood became the cleansing factor, or the way in which man could approach a holy God and have his sins covered (Genesis 3:21.)

The rest of the Old Testament Scripture is the story of the preparation and anticipation of that Deliverer. Satan opposed God at every turn and the sin nature of man carried on the evil. It became so bad that the Gentiles were given up in unbelief and the Jews became the chosen people of God and the race through which the Deliverer would come. So from the time of Abraham until after Jesus died, was buried, rose again and went to Heaven, God was

dealing with the Jews. The Gentiles were called "dogs" (Matthew 15:22-27.) The Jews then looked for the Messiah, a Saviour, the very Deliverer God had promised back in early Genesis.

After 4,000 years this Messiah was born. John 1:11 tells us that

"He came unto His own (the Jews) and His own received Him not."

Instead of receiving Him as their Messiah and entering into a beautiful and perfect Kingdom, as He had promised, they crucified Jesus Christ. Even today orthodox Jews will not acknowledge that Jesus Christ was truly their Messiah.

Jesus Christ did die on a cross (Matthew 27:27-51.) He was the Son of God and had been sent by God as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of the world. On the cross He shed His blood so that sin no longer needed to be covered by the blood of a perfect lamb, but could be taken away forever.

Because Jesus was rejected and the Kingdom which He offered was rejected, the Jews were then set aside as a nation and God brought in a new era called the "Dispensation of the Grace of God" (Ephesians 3:2.) No longer would God deal with Jews only. Now the Gentiles were invited to enjoy forgiveness and blessing from God. This new dispensation is also called a "Mystery" because it was not prophesied in the Old Testament Scriptures (Ephesians 3:3.) Oh yes--it was in the mind of God because He is all-knowing, and knew His Son would be rejected, and His Holy Spirit would be rejected. But it was not made known to man (Ephesians 3:15; 3:2.)

When Paul came on the scene--in the book of Acts--we find Jesus in Heaven, sitting at the right hand of God. The Jews have rejected Jesus, the Kingdom has been set aside and God is now dealing with Jew and Gentile in the same manner (Romans 11:32.)



Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on May 16, 2003, 01:01:48 PM
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/prepare_to_fly.gif)


Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on July 05, 2003, 09:30:10 AM
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/prepare_to_fly.gif)

I am still looking Up  ;D


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Brother Love on July 07, 2003, 04:19:45 AM
MARANATHA!!! (1 Cor. 16:22, Aramaic: "Our Lord, come")


Brother Love :)


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE!
Post by: Brother Love on July 08, 2003, 05:03:42 AM
Confused about Christ's Coming? There are many Second Coming Bible passages which are frequently mistaken for the Rapture. Some times they are even taught as if they were one and the same. Even more confusion exists regarding when the Rapture occurs in relation to the Tribulation. But the student of the Scriptures would do well to pay close attention to the contrasting traits and purposes of each event.

"True wisdom is not manifested in trying to see resemblances in things which differ, but in discerning the real difference among those which resemble one another." - Unknown (see: Rom. 2:18; Php. 1:10)

This article is a study aid designed to be read in conjunction with the mentioned Bible references. These are the basic questions which will be answered by this article.

What is the Rapture, Tribulation and Second Coming?
Where do we find these concepts in the Bible?
What is the purpose of the Tribulation?
How do these three prophetic events relate to each other?
What resources are available for further study?

The Rapture

Is "rapture" in the Bible? Yes! The Latin derivative "rapture" is a synonym for the English "catch up" (2 Cor. 12:4; 1 Thes. 4:17). Both terms are translated from the original New Testament Greek verb "harpazo." All three terms are found in the Bible (which corresponds to their respective languages).

1 Thessalonians 4:17-18 "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words."

The Rapture will conclude this grace dispensation (Eph. 3:2) and precede the future 7 year Tribulation (2 Thes. 2). In 2 Thes. 2:2 "the departure" has the Greek definite article and is refering back to the previously mentioned rapture. Although there was at least one Old Testament allusion/type/foreshadowing (Enoch raptured a period of 7 since Adam and a period of 7/one generation before the flood/judgement: Gen. 5:24; Mt. 24: 34; Heb. 11:5; Jude 1:14) of the Rapture, it is only specifically referred to in the Pauline epistles. Why? Because the rapture was part of the secret mystery revealed through Paul for believers in the dispensation of grace (1 Cor. 15). The next prophesied event which concerns us is the Rapture. Christ's secret coming is imminent (1 Cor. 1:7; 16:22; Php. 3:20; 4:5; 1 Thes. 1:10; *** . 2:13). We are not told to look for Antichrist or the "abomination of desolation", but for Christ's Rapture. The pretribulational approach is the only interpretation which takes the Bible literally and brings us His promised comfort.

"About the Time of the End, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the Prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamor and opposition" - Sir Isaac Newton (McClain, Alva. Daniel's Prophecy of the 70 Weeks. Pg. 2)

Rapture Bible Verses

Rom. 8: 19-25; 1 Cor. 1:7-8; 15:51-53; 16:22; 2 Cor. 12:4?; Gal. 5:5; Php. 3:20-21; 4:5; Col. 3:4; 1 Thes. 1:10; 2:1, 3, 19; 3:13; 4:13-18; 5:9, 23; 2 Thes. 2:1, 3, 7; 1 Tim. 3:14-15?; 6:14; 2 Tim. 4:18; Titus 2:11-13; (NOT Rev. 3:10; 4:1!)

Purpose of the Tribulation

All believers are promised general tribulation (suffering) in this life (Rom. 5:3; 2 Cor. 12:10; Php. 1:29; 1 Thes. 3:3; 1 Pet. 1:7; 2:19; 4:12). However, believers in this dispensation are promised deliverance (Rom. 5:9?; 1 Thes. 1:9-10; 5:9; 2 Thes. 2:3, 7) "from the wrath to come" (the 7 year Tribulation).

1 Thessalonians 1:10 "...and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come."

To know whether we will participate in any part of the Tribulation, we need to know God's purpose for Daniel's 70th week of years. Who is the Tribulation for? "Jacob's (father of Israel) trouble" is stated only to be for Israel (Jer. 30:7; Dan. 9:20-25) and unbelievers (1 Thes. 1:8; 2:12), not us. We will be taken away before antichrist is revealed (2 Thes. 2:7). The reasons for the Tribulation are for God to exercise His wrath on the Christ rejecting world and to prepare the remnant of Israel (including Gentile proselytes) for it's promised King (my Lord Jesus Christ) and earthly kingdom (Deut. 4:29-30; Jer. 30:3-11; Zech. 12:10).

Tribulation Scripture References

Dan. 8:24-27; 12:1-2; Mt. 13:30-50; 24:15-31; 1 Thes. 1:9-10; 5:4-9; 2 Thes. 2:1-11; Rev. 4-18; 6:16-17; Jer. 30:7; Dan. 9:20-25; 1 Thes. 1:8; 2:12; Deut. 4:29-30; Jer. 30:3-11; Zech. 12:10

The Second Coming

Remember that all the Bible is for us (Rom. 15:4; 1 Cor. 10:6; 2 Tim. 3:16), but only the apostle Paul's letters are 100% applicable to us (Acts 9:15; 22:21; 26:17; Rom. 2:16; 11:13; 16:25; Gal. 2:8-9; Eph. 3:1, 8; Col. 1:27; 1 Tim. 2:7, 2 Tim. 1:11; 2:8) in the dispensation of grace. All references to Christ's coming in the Jewish (non-Pauline) letters are referring to the second coming of Christ at the end of the future 7 year tribulation. There are also a few references to Christ's coming in judgment in the Thessalonian letters.

Zechariah 14:3-4a "Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. And in that day [end of the Tribulation] His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east."

There were also many Old Testament allusions (foreshadows, types, examples) to the second advent of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Noah (remnant of Israel) was saved through the flood (global judgment).
Lot (believing remnant) flees (to the hills) the destruction of Sodom (spiritual Jerusalem).
Parables of Jesus often have a first and second coming divided by a king in exile aspect .
Moses (foreshadow of the Prophet to come, Jesus), David and Joseph had a first (lowly) and second (kingly) coming divided by a period of exile (dispensation of grace, Eph. 3, Rom. 11).
The plagues and the exodus foreshadow in microcosm the world wide tribulation and deliverance of the remnant of Israel from Armageddon.

Second Coming Cross-References

Deut. 30:3; 32:41-42; Dan. 2:44-45, 7:9-14; 12:1-3; Ez. 43:2-7; Zech. 12:10; 14:1-15; 41:1-3 Mt. 13:14; 23:39; 24: 15-44, 48-51; 25:13, 31; 26:64; Mk. 13:14-27; 14:62; Lk. 12:36-48; 17:24; 21:25-28; Jn. 14:1-3; Acts 1:9-11; 3:19-21; 15:14-17; 1 Thes. 5:3; 2 Thes. 1:6-10; 2:2, 8; Heb. 9:28; James 5:7-9; 1 Pet. 1:7, 13; 4:12-13; 5:4; 2 Pet. 3:1-14; 1 Jn. 2:28-3:2; Jude 14-15; Rev. 1:7-8; 19:11-20:6; 22:7, 12, 20; Rev. 1:10; 2:25; 3:10; 4:1; 19:11-21; 22:20

Differences

The Second Coming (Revelation 19, Zechariah 14, Matthew 24, Daniel 7) is not the Rapture (1&2 Thessalonians, 1 Corinthians 15). The Rapture takes place before the 7 year Tribulation (wrath of God/Lamb, the day of the Lord, Jacob's trouble, Daniel's 70th week, the great day of His wrath, etc.). It is a secret coming in the air (not on the ground) for (not with) the believers of all nations. Jesus never touches the ground and the world does not see him. The resurrection of the rapture takes place during (not after) Christ's partial decent.

The second coming is 180 degrees different. It occurs at the end of the 7 year Tribulation. The resurrection of tribulation saints takes place after (Rev. 19-20) Christ's complete decent of the second advent. The unbelievers are taken away (Mt. 13) as the Lord returns to the earth to save Israel (Rom. 11, Rev. 19). It is not a secret, for it is seen by the whole world (Mt. 24:30). Although there are a few similarities (clouds, Jesus, believers, coming) between the Rapture (secret, air, church, pre-trib., deliverance) and the Second Coming (public, ground, Israel, post-trib., vengeance), let us discern the differences. For this purpose, I highly recommend the resources below.



When reading writings on prophecy, it will serve you well to keep in mind that direct rapture passages only occur in the Pauline books of the Bible (Rom. - Phm.). All references to the coming of Christ in the non-Pauline books are referring to His second coming/advent to save Israel. Just as Moses was the primary revelator to Israel "under the law" program, so Paul is our apostle in "the dispensation of the grace of God" (Rom. 6:14; 11:13; 2 Cor. 5:16; Gal. 2:8; 5:18; Eph. 3:2; 2 Tim. 3:8-10). Therefore it only makes sense that our apostle and not the 12 apostles of the law/kingdom program would receive and convey our "blessed hope" of resurrection and rapture. Hence we are "looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13).

MARANATHA!!! (1 Cor. 16:22, Aramaic: "Our Lord, come")



Good Study Thanks A4C

Brother Love :)


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Allinall on July 08, 2003, 05:50:58 AM
A4C,

Why do I get the impression that you often talk just to hear the sound of your voice?  ;D ;D ;D  Jus' kiddin' brother!  Well stated and true.


Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on July 09, 2003, 02:45:26 PM
A4C,

Why do I get the impression that you often talk just to hear the sound of your voice?  ;D ;D ;D  Jus' kiddin' brother!  Well stated and true.

 ;D


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Brother Love on July 11, 2003, 04:34:33 AM
I am also Looking Up :)

(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/prepare_to_fly.gif)

Brother Love :)


Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on July 12, 2003, 04:43:07 PM
Why not place your trust in Christ who died to "deliver us from the wrath to come."



Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Paul2 on July 12, 2003, 05:18:09 PM
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/prepare_to_fly.gif)

    Looking up beats looking down any day!

                                                               Paul2


Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on July 12, 2003, 09:44:51 PM
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/prepare_to_fly.gif)

    Looking up beats looking down any day!

                                                               Paul2

 ;D


Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on July 12, 2003, 09:46:11 PM
In I Thes. 1:10, the Apostle Paul, by divine inspiration,
assures believers that the Lord Jesus Christ has "delivered
us from the wrath to come." He refers, of course, to deliv-
erance from the penalty of sin. But in other passages he
declares that we are also delivered from the power of sin.
In Col. 1:12,13, for example, he gives thanks to God "Who
hath delivered us from the power of darkness and hath
translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son."

This deliverance, and the glory of our heavenly position
and blessings in Christ, we may enjoy experientially now,
by grace. Rom. 6:14 says: "For sin shall not have dominion
over you, for ye are not under the law but under grace." This
does not mean that it is not possible for the believer to sin,
but rather that it is possible, in any situation, not to sin.
Thus the same passage in Romans goes on to say that we
should not yield ourselves as servants to sin, but to God,
who, in grace has broken sin's power over us.

Finally, the believer in Christ will one day be delivered
even from the presence of sin, for at our Lord's coming for us
"we shall all be changed" (I Cor. 15:51). Believers should
long for Christ's coming for them, not merely because these
bodies of humiliation will then be glorified, but because
from that moment on they shall never again be tempted or
defiled by sin. What a change that will be!

In II Cor. 1:10 the Apostle includes all three tenses of the
believer's deliverance. Here he tells how God has "delivered
us from so great a death, and doth deliver, in whom we
trust that He will yet deliver us." This is why he could write
to the Philippians about his confidence that "He who hath
begun a good work in you will perform [complete] it until the
day of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:6).

Some may not feel the need of deliverance now, but we all
need deliverance from sin and its results. If you have not
yet experienced this deliverance, why not place your trust
in Christ who died to "deliver us from the wrath to come."


Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on July 12, 2003, 09:48:29 PM
(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/prepare_to_fly.gif)

Guess What?













I am Still Looking Up  ;D


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Brother Love on July 14, 2003, 04:12:34 AM
Why not place your trust in Christ who died to "deliver us from the wrath to come."



YES!!!!


Brother Love :)


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Brother Love on July 14, 2003, 07:47:34 AM
In I Thes. 1:10, the Apostle Paul, by divine inspiration,
assures believers that the Lord Jesus Christ has "delivered
us from the wrath to come." He refers, of course, to deliv-
erance from the penalty of sin. But in other passages he
declares that we are also delivered from the power of sin.
In Col. 1:12,13, for example, he gives thanks to God "Who
hath delivered us from the power of darkness and hath
translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son."

This deliverance, and the glory of our heavenly position
and blessings in Christ, we may enjoy experientially now,
by grace. Rom. 6:14 says: "For sin shall not have dominion
over you, for ye are not under the law but under grace." This
does not mean that it is not possible for the believer to sin,
but rather that it is possible, in any situation, not to sin.
Thus the same passage in Romans goes on to say that we
should not yield ourselves as servants to sin, but to God,
who, in grace has broken sin's power over us.

Finally, the believer in Christ will one day be delivered
even from the presence of sin, for at our Lord's coming for us
"we shall all be changed" (I Cor. 15:51). Believers should
long for Christ's coming for them, not merely because these
bodies of humiliation will then be glorified, but because
from that moment on they shall never again be tempted or
defiled by sin. What a change that will be!

In II Cor. 1:10 the Apostle includes all three tenses of the
believer's deliverance. Here he tells how God has "delivered
us from so great a death, and doth deliver, in whom we
trust that He will yet deliver us." This is why he could write
to the Philippians about his confidence that "He who hath
begun a good work in you will perform [complete] it until the
day of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:6).

Some may not feel the need of deliverance now, but we all
need deliverance from sin and its results. If you have not
yet experienced this deliverance, why not place your trust
in Christ who died to "deliver us from the wrath to come."


Thank You Jesus

Brother Love :)


Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on July 14, 2003, 03:35:25 PM
Thanks Brother Love ;D


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Brother Love on July 15, 2003, 06:05:48 AM
In Matthew 24:37-42, we are told that conditions on the earth prior to the Lords coming will be similar to those in Noahs day.

The record in Genesis 6:5-7 states that, "the thoughts of mens hearts were only evil continually," and, "the Lord was grieved that he made man upon the earth."

An honest appraisal of present-day morals must conclude that we are heading in the same direction. To the Lords people, it is a comforting thought that when evil has reached its peak, God always calls a halt. It was so in Noahs day. While the multitude of people were "eating and drinking, marrying and being given in marriage," entirely indifferent to their eternal welfare, suddenly the flood came and took them all away. Only Noah and his family were spared because they had entered the ark. Those who were "taken" died in the flood.

"That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field. One will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill. One will be taken and the other left (Matthew 24:39-41).

Taken where?

Not to Heaven, as is sometimes taught, but to judgment. The one who is left will enter the kingdom which Christ will have come to establish.

To God's people in this present evil age, the Apostle Paul by inspiration tells of a secret coming of Christ (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 15:51,52). Then, instead of being "taken away," members of the Body of Christ will be "caught up" to meet the Lord in the air and "so shall we ever be with the Lord."

How wonderful to have this hope of being "caught up" and not "taken away." It can be yours by simply believing the good news, trusting in Jesus Christ for your forgiveness and eternal salvation.

"God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God" (2 Corinthians 5:21).

"Therefore, having been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:1).

Amen A4C Amen

Brother Love :)


Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on July 15, 2003, 04:41:16 PM
In Matthew 24:37-42, we are told that conditions on the earth prior to the Lords coming will be similar to those in Noahs day.

The record in Genesis 6:5-7 states that, "the thoughts of mens hearts were only evil continually," and, "the Lord was grieved that he made man upon the earth."

An honest appraisal of present-day morals must conclude that we are heading in the same direction. To the Lords people, it is a comforting thought that when evil has reached its peak, God always calls a halt. It was so in Noahs day. While the multitude of people were "eating and drinking, marrying and being given in marriage," entirely indifferent to their eternal welfare, suddenly the flood came and took them all away. Only Noah and his family were spared because they had entered the ark. Those who were "taken" died in the flood.

"That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field. One will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill. One will be taken and the other left (Matthew 24:39-41).

Taken where?

Not to Heaven, as is sometimes taught, but to judgment. The one who is left will enter the kingdom which Christ will have come to establish.

To God's people in this present evil age, the Apostle Paul by inspiration tells of a secret coming of Christ (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Corinthians 15:51,52). Then, instead of being "taken away," members of the Body of Christ will be "caught up" to meet the Lord in the air and "so shall we ever be with the Lord."

How wonderful to have this hope of being "caught up" and not "taken away." It can be yours by simply believing the good news, trusting in Jesus Christ for your forgiveness and eternal salvation.

"God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God" (2 Corinthians 5:21).

"Therefore, having been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:1).

Amen A4C Amen

Brother Love :)

AMEN To You Brother Love ;D


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Brother Love on July 18, 2003, 05:05:10 AM
I am Still "LOOKING UP"

(http://www.fci.crossnet.se/images/prepare_to_fly.gif)



Brother Love :)


Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on July 19, 2003, 11:15:55 AM
(http://62712785.home.icq.com//aniback4u.gif)


LOOKING UP


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Petro on July 25, 2003, 12:26:51 AM
If Mat 24:40, is a mystery to anyone, it  is resolved at verses 46-51.

46  Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47  Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48  But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49  And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50  The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51  And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Those whom the Lord finds watching and doing, is blessed  and shall be made ruler over His goods, according to verse 46 while; but He (the same lord of verse 46) shall take and cut the evil servant asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites.

And this is what Jesus said the hypocrites do;

Mk 7
6  .....  Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7  Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8  For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Note, what Job says about the hypocrite, thru his inspired word, at;

Job 27
7  Let mine enemy be as the wicked, and he that riseth up against me as the unrighteous.
8  For what is the hope of the hypocrite, though he hath gained, when God taketh away his soul?
9  Will God hear his cry when trouble cometh upon him?


A hypocrite, is a pretender, a person who doesn't possess what he professes and doesn't do what he says.

He is unrighteous........and he wants to teach unrighteouness..

And then the Apostle says;

1 Cor 6
9  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?

So, those who are spoken of at Mat 24:40, are not those who are raptured, at all, but those who are judged at the coming of the Lord, whom He will comsume by the power of His word at His coming.

The Day of the Lord begins with great judgement upon the earth, referred to as the wrath of God, being poured out among the earth (Rev16:1).  

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;



God Bless,

Petro


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: The Crusader on December 27, 2003, 04:35:39 AM
If Mat 24:40, is a mystery to anyone, it  is resolved at verses 46-51.

46  Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47  Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48  But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49  And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50  The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51  And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Those whom the Lord finds watching and doing, is blessed  and shall be made ruler over His goods, according to verse 46 while; but He (the same lord of verse 46) shall take and cut the evil servant asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites.

And this is what Jesus said the hypocrites do;

Mk 7
6  .....  Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7  Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8  For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Note, what Job says about the hypocrite, thru his inspired word, at;

Job 27
7  Let mine enemy be as the wicked, and he that riseth up against me as the unrighteous.
8  For what is the hope of the hypocrite, though he hath gained, when God taketh away his soul?
9  Will God hear his cry when trouble cometh upon him?


A hypocrite, is a pretender, a person who doesn't possess what he professes and doesn't do what he says.

He is unrighteous........and he wants to teach unrighteouness..

And then the Apostle says;

1 Cor 6
9  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?

So, those who are spoken of at Mat 24:40, are not those who are raptured, at all, but those who are judged at the coming of the Lord, whom He will comsume by the power of His word at His coming.

The Day of the Lord begins with great judgement upon the earth, referred to as the wrath of God, being poured out among the earth (Rev16:1).  

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;



God Bless,

Petro

The Rapture is a good subject.

A hypocrite, is a pretender, a person who doesn't possess what he professes and doesn't do what he says.

He is unrighteous........and he wants to teach unrighteouness..

And then the Apostle says;

1 Cor 6
9  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?

So, those who are spoken of at Mat 24:40, are not those who are raptured, at all, but those who are judged at the coming of the Lord, whom He will comsume by the power of His word at His coming.

The Day of the Lord begins with great judgement upon the earth, referred to as the wrath of God, being poured out among the earth (Rev16:1).  

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;



God Bless,

Petro

I agree Petro

The Crusader


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on January 01, 2004, 04:18:16 PM
Thanks Petro & Crusader


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: The Crusader on January 20, 2004, 06:00:15 AM
You've probably heard someone proclaim confidently that rapture is not in the Bible. Many have accepted this challenge to the truth at face value. But contrary to popular belief, the concept and the word "rapture" are in the Bible.

"These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so." Acts 17:11

The Root of the Issue

The Bible has been translated into many languages from the original languages in which it was written (mainly Hebrew and Koine Greek). We must keep this in mind when we affirm that something is or is not in "the Bible." The common Latin verb "rapere" (root of the English "rapture") is in the Latin Bible (2 Cor. 12:4; 1 Thes. 4:17). It is translated from the original New Testament Greek verb "harpazo." This is where we derive the English word "harpoon" from. Most English Bibles translate it as "caught up." However it could just as easily be translated "carried away," "snatched up," "seized away by force," or "raptured" (see "catch" in Vine's Dict.)! In other words "rapture," "harpazo" and "catch up" are all synonyms in three different languages (Latin, Greek, English) which are in "the Bible." Before saying something is not in the Bible, it must first be defined.

"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32

Testing the Rule

The word "rapture" may not be in most English translations of the Bible. However, to say that it is not in "the Bible" attains to the ignorance of saying that the Hebrew words Yahweh (LORD) or Yeshua (Jesus or Joshua) are not in the Bible. The same unsound reasoning could also be used to dismiss the legitimacy of the word "Bible." It is not actually in the translated text of the English Bible, but it is a transliteration of the New Testament Greek word "biblion" ("book" in Lk. 4:17). The word "trinity/triunity" is yet another Biblical term not found in the Bible. However the concept of the three persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) of the "Godhead" (Rom. 1:20, Col. 2:9) sharing one divine nature is undeniable fact (Deut. 6:4; Mt. 3:16, 28:19; Jn 10:30; 14:16; 1 Cor. 12:4-6; 2 Cor. 5:19; Eph. 1:3-14; Php. 2:6...). Furthermore, in addition to the rapture, many English concepts are also labeled with Latin names (plants, animals, music, grammatics, etc.). For Latin has historically been considered the language of education, religion and science. This same critical examination should be used anytime a sound Biblical doctrine is challenged. Especially on as shaky ground as this.

"Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables." 2 Timothy 4:2-4


In summary, yes! Rapture is in "the Bible." The Latin derivative "rapture" is a synonym for the English "catch up." Both terms are translated from the Greek "harpazo." All three terms are found in the Bible which corresponds to their respective languages (2 Cor. 12:4; 1 Thes. 4:17). Therefore it is Biblical and perfectly appropriate that the event of First Thessalonians four be referred to as the Rapture.

"Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up (harpazo, raptured) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words." 1 Thes. 4:17-18

MARANATHA!!! (1 Cor. 16:22, Aramaic: "Our Lord, come")

Amen

Good teaching Ambassador

MARANATHA!!!

The Crusader



Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: 2nd Timothy on January 20, 2004, 07:33:15 AM
Amen Crusader!

Grace and Peace!


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: sincereheart on January 20, 2004, 08:10:06 AM
You've probably heard someone proclaim confidently that rapture is not in the Bible. Many have accepted this challenge to the truth at face value. But contrary to popular belief, the concept and the word "rapture" are in the Bible.

"These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so." Acts 17:11

The Root of the Issue

The Bible has been translated into many languages from the original languages in which it was written (mainly Hebrew and Koine Greek). We must keep this in mind when we affirm that something is or is not in "the Bible." The common Latin verb "rapere" (root of the English "rapture") is in the Latin Bible (2 Cor. 12:4; 1 Thes. 4:17). It is translated from the original New Testament Greek verb "harpazo." This is where we derive the English word "harpoon" from. Most English Bibles translate it as "caught up." However it could just as easily be translated "carried away," "snatched up," "seized away by force," or "raptured" (see "catch" in Vine's Dict.)! In other words "rapture," "harpazo" and "catch up" are all synonyms in three different languages (Latin, Greek, English) which are in "the Bible." Before saying something is not in the Bible, it must first be defined.

"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32

Testing the Rule

The word "rapture" may not be in most English translations of the Bible. However, to say that it is not in "the Bible" attains to the ignorance of saying that the Hebrew words Yahweh (LORD) or Yeshua (Jesus or Joshua) are not in the Bible. The same unsound reasoning could also be used to dismiss the legitimacy of the word "Bible." It is not actually in the translated text of the English Bible, but it is a transliteration of the New Testament Greek word "biblion" ("book" in Lk. 4:17). The word "trinity/triunity" is yet another Biblical term not found in the Bible. However the concept of the three persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) of the "Godhead" (Rom. 1:20, Col. 2:9) sharing one divine nature is undeniable fact (Deut. 6:4; Mt. 3:16, 28:19; Jn 10:30; 14:16; 1 Cor. 12:4-6; 2 Cor. 5:19; Eph. 1:3-14; Php. 2:6...). Furthermore, in addition to the rapture, many English concepts are also labeled with Latin names (plants, animals, music, grammatics, etc.). For Latin has historically been considered the language of education, religion and science. This same critical examination should be used anytime a sound Biblical doctrine is challenged. Especially on as shaky ground as this.

"Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables." 2 Timothy 4:2-4


In summary, yes! Rapture is in "the Bible." The Latin derivative "rapture" is a synonym for the English "catch up." Both terms are translated from the Greek "harpazo." All three terms are found in the Bible which corresponds to their respective languages (2 Cor. 12:4; 1 Thes. 4:17). Therefore it is Biblical and perfectly appropriate that the event of First Thessalonians four be referred to as the Rapture.

"Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up (harpazo, raptured) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words." 1 Thes. 4:17-18

MARANATHA!!! (1 Cor. 16:22, Aramaic: "Our Lord, come")

Amen

Good teaching Ambassador

MARANATHA!!!

The Crusader

Thank you! That was informative! I'll save this for further study!  :D


Title: THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST
Post by: The Crusader on February 10, 2004, 05:21:32 AM
THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST

The rapture of the Church "which is His body," and the second coming of Christ will be pre-millennial. He will come first to receive the members of His body to Himself (I Thes. 4:13-18; Phil. 3:20, 21), and later to receive His millennial kingdom, over which He will reign (Zech. 14:4, 9; Acts 1:10, 11; Rev. 19:11-16; 20:4-6). Because of the distinctive nature of the Body of Christ, the resurrection and rap­ture of the Church, which is His body, will take place before the great tribulation (Jer. 30:7; Matt. 24:15-31) at His appearing in the air (I Thes. 4:13-18; Phil. 3:20, 21; Titus 2:13, 14; I Cor. 15:51-53). The resurrection of the other saved dead will occur after the tribulation (Rev. 20:4-6).

<:)))><



Title: Re:THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST
Post by: Reba on February 14, 2004, 11:06:46 AM
THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST

The rapture of the Church "which is His body," and the second coming of Christ will be pre-millennial. He will come first to receive the members of His body to Himself (I Thes. 4:13-18; Phil. 3:20, 21), and later to receive His millennial kingdom, over which He will reign (Zech. 14:4, 9; Acts 1:10, 11; Rev. 19:11-16; 20:4-6). Because of the distinctive nature of the Body of Christ, the resurrection and rap­ture of the Church, which is His body, will take place before the great tribulation (Jer. 30:7; Matt. 24:15-31) at His appearing in the air (I Thes. 4:13-18; Phil. 3:20, 21; Titus 2:13, 14; I Cor. 15:51-53). The resurrection of the other saved dead will occur after the tribulation (Rev. 20:4-6).

<:)))><



Are you saying the first part of rapture of the church is only for  those alive bodily ?

  Then the tribulation .

 Then the third coming ?“The resurrection of the other saved dead will occur after the tribulation”

So our dead  brothers and sisters will not be part of the  rapture?

This is my understanding of what you have written . Is it correct?


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: The Crusader on February 27, 2004, 05:38:57 AM
I Believe...

The rapture of the Church, "which is His body," and the second coming of Christ will be pre-millennial. He will come first to receive the members of His body to Himself (1 Thes. 4:13-18, Phil. 3:20-21), and later to receive his millennial kingdom, over which He will reign (Zech. 14:4, 9; Acts 1:10-11, Rev. 19:11-16, Rev. 20:4-6). Because of the distinctive nature of the Body of Christ, the resurrection and rapture of the Church, "which is His body," will take place before the great tribulation (Jer. 30:7, Matt. 24:15-31) at his appearing in the air (1 Thes. 4:13-18, Phil. 3:20-21, Titus 2:13-14, 1 Cor. 15:51-53). The resurrection of the other saved dead will occur after the tribulation (Rev. 20:4-6).

<:)))><


Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: The Crusader on March 02, 2004, 05:54:14 AM
Will the Body of Christ Go Through the Tribulation? (PART 1)
By Cornelius R. Stam


In recent years, numerous arguments have been advanced to supposedly prove that the Church, the Body of Christ, will go through the "great tribulation" before being "caught up" to be with the Lord.

The present trend of events is, of course, causing many sincere believers to fear that this will be the case, but we place our confidence in the Word of God alone and we are amply confirmed in our belief that the Rapture of the Church will take place before the tribulation period begins, and that the members of the Body of Christ will thus escape the sufferings that the tribulation saints will be called upon to endure.

Our purpose in writing this article is not to defend or to attack anyone, but simply to consider whether arguments for a post-tribulation Rapture are valid.

NOT ONE SCRIPTURE?
Some who hold to the post-trib Rapture position say that there is not one verse of Scripture which explicitly affirms the Rapture of the Church before the tribulation.

But why need there be? There is not one verse of Scripture which explicitly affirms that our Lord was baptized before His temptation by the devil, or that He was crowned with thorns before He was crucified, or that baptism with water is no longer included in God's program for believers, or that God is a Trinity. Yet there is abundant Scriptural proof for all these and they are accepted as the truth of the Word of God.

Years ago we printed an article entitled First the Departure, in which we dealt at length with a passage of Scripture which does explicitly affirm that the Rapture will precede the tribulation. In this article we gave conclusive evidence that the words hee apostasia in II Thessalonians 2:3 should have been rendered "the departure" rather than "a falling away" and that the passage thus reads:

"Let no man deceive you by any means; for that day [the day of the Lord]1 shall not come except the departure come first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."

The preceding verses and the preceding letter written by Paul to these same people all bear witness that "the departure" referred to is the departure of believers to go and be with Christ.

We are quite taken aback to see how lightly some have disposed of the evidence we advanced for this rendering of II Thessalonians 2:3. We have given Scriptural proof after proof that the word apostasia does not mean departure from the truth, but simply departure, and that the original passage in question certainly does not use the words "a falling away" but rather "the departure."

To all this our post-tribulational brethren reply by simply stating authoritatively and dogmatically that the word apostasia means a departure from the truth.

Lest some of our readers believe that apostasia means a departure from the truth, we offer again what we believe to be conclusive Scriptural proof that the words "a falling away," in II Thessalonians 2:3, should have been rendered "the departure" and that the Greek word apostasia does not contain ideas of revolt or rebellion as does our English word apostasy.

APOSTASIA AND APOSTASY
Actually the Greek noun apostasia occurs in only one other passage in the New Testament, namely Acts 21:21, where Paul is informed of the report that he has taught "all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses."

We suggest that "depart" here would be a closer synonym to the rendering "forsake" than would the word "apostatize." To forsake is not exactly to revolt or rebel against, and this is the meaning of apostasy. Furthermore, in this case we are explicitly informed that these Jews were being urged to forsake or depart from Moses, indicating that the word apostasia by itself does not mean "a departure from the truth" but simply "a departure."

But some people have evidently overlooked the root verb from which the noun apostasia is derived. This verb, aphisteemi, occurs 15 times in the New Testament and its meaning is easy to determine from those passages in which it is used. So that there may be no mistake, we present here a list of every New Testament use of this verb:

Luke 2:37—"departed not from the temple."

Luke 4:13—"the devil...departed from Him."

Luke 8:13—"in time of temptation fall away."

Luke 13:27—"depart from Me, all ye workers of iniquity."

Acts 5:37—"drew away much people after him."

Acts 5:38—"refrain from these men."

Acts 12:10—"the angel departed from him."

Acts 15:38—"who departed from them from Pamphylia."

Acts 19:9—"he departed from them."

Acts 22:29—"they departed from him."

II Cor. 12:8—"I besought the Lord...that it might depart."

I Tim. 4:1—"some shall depart from the faith."

I Tim. 6:5—"from such withdraw thyself."

II Tim. 2:19—"depart from iniquity."

Heb. 3:12—"in departing from the living God."

The reader should observe carefully that in 11 out of these 15 occurrences the verb in question is rendered depart, departed, or departing.

Only three of the 15 are concerned with departure from the truth. In two of these it is clearly stated that the departure is "from the faith" (I Tim. 4:1) and "from the living God" (Heb. 3:12) while the third clearly implies a departure, or "falling away," from that which was "for a while believed," leaving the meaning of the verb aphisteemi in each case simply depart. And these are the only three passages of the above fifteen where departure from the truth is even involved.

In the other twelve the meaning of the word itself is again simply that of departure—nothing more.

In Luke 4:13 we read that the devil "departed" from Christ. In Acts 12:10 an angel "departs" from Peter. In Acts 15:38 we read how a man had "departed" from Paul and Barnabas. In II Corinthians 12:8 we read of Paul's thrice-repeated prayer that a thorn might "depart," or be removed, from his flesh. And so with all the others.

Indeed, in two of the 15 cases above the very opposite of apostasy or departure from the truth is involved.

In I Timothy 6:5 Timothy is told to depart ("withdraw thyself") from men who are "destitute of the truth," while in II Timothy 2:19 all who "name the name of Christ" are exhorted to "depart from iniquity."

If one carefully considers these fifteen occurrences of the root verb of the noun apostasia, he would surely not declare with finality that the meaning of apostasia is "apostasy" or "a departure from the truth."



Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: The Crusader on March 02, 2004, 05:55:09 AM
Will the Body of Christ Go Through the Tribulation? (PART 2)
By Cornelius R. Stam


THE AUTHORIZED VERSION AND ITS PREDECESSORS
Before leaving this subject we would call attention to Mr. Kenneth S. Wuest's rendering of II Thessalonians 2:3 in his Expanded Translation of the Greek New Testament. It reads as follows:

"Do not begin to allow anyone to lead you astray in any way, because that day shall not come except the aforementioned departure [of the Church to heaven] comes first and the man of lawlessness is disclosed [in his true identity], the son of perdition."

Now however Mr. Wuest's translation of the New Testament may be appraised, we doubt that in thus rendering the verse he was trying to establish some private theory as to the timing of the Rapture. He was just trying to produce a good English translation of what the Greek actually says, and he proves this in his preface to II Thessalonians, parts of which we quote below.

"If apostasia and aphisteemi meant what our word `apostasy' and `apostatize' mean, why did Paul when using aphisteemi in I Timothy 4:1 feel the need of adding the qualifying phrase, `from the faith' to complete the meaning of aphisteemi in that instance of its use?...The word apostasia, therefore, in its original and pure meaning, unadulterated by the addition of other ideas imposed upon it by the contexts in which it has been used, means `a departure.'"

In explaining why the Authorized Version failed to retain the rendering "a departure," which they found in the five versions which preceded A. V., Mr. Wuest points out a mistake contained in all six versions. Says Mr. Wuest:

"The fatal mistake the translators made was in failing to take into consideration the definite article before the word apostasia which appears in the Greek text of Eberhard Nestle, in that of his son, Erwin Nestle, and in that of Westcott and Hort. A. T. Robertson in his monumental work, A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research, asserts that the translators of the A. V., under the influence of the Vulgate, dealt with the Greek article in a loose and inaccurate way (p. 756). He goes on to say that the vital thing is to look at the matter in hand from the Greek angle and find a reason for the use of the article in any given instance. The use of the article here is classified by Dana and Mantey in their Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament as that of denoting previous reference. In this usage the article is used to point out an object the identity of which is defined by some previous reference made to it in the context (p. 141). The word `previous' is all-important here. The translators of the A. V. looked for the definition of the word in the subsequent context, whereas the Greek article points here to a previous context, namely, to the coming of the Lord Jesus into the air and the gathering together of the saints to Him and their consequent ascent to heaven. Thus, instead of speaking of a departure of men from the true Faith, Paul is referring to the departure of the saints to heaven. It is this departure of the Church which is preventing the coming of the day of the Lord and the disclosure of the man of lawlessness in his true identity."

Dr. E. Schuyler English, too, has made a comprehensive study of the Rapture in relation to the tribulation and has written a book on the subject entitled Re-thinking the Rapture. In it he deals at length with the meaning of apostasia and its verb root, aphisteemi and goes on to say:

"The day of the Lord will not come, then, until the man of sin be revealed. And before he is revealed, there must be `the departure.' Departure from what or to what? It must have been something concerning which the Thessalonian believers were informed, else the definite article would hardly have been employed, and without any qualifying description with the noun.2 Why do we assume that this departure must be from the faith? It has been shown that, in its verb form, the word frequently signified separation other than religious revolt. Have we not based our interpretation upon what may quite possibly be an inappropriate rendition of the Greek noun? And since the definite article suggests strongly that the departure was something with which the Thessalonians were familiar, why do we think of the departure as apostasy? There is nothing in either of the Thessalonian epistles, to this point, about the great apostasy. To submit that, while the apostle did not write to this church about the apostasy he must have talked to them about it, is pure conjecture.

"Again, how would the Thessalonians, or Christians in any century since, be qualified to recognize the apostasy when it should come, assuming, simply for the sake of this inquiry, that the Church might be on earth when it does come? There has been apostasy from God, rebellion against Him, since time began. And if it be proposed that the man of sin, sitting in the temple of God and showing Himself to be God, is the apostasy, we must ask ourselves a question: Is this act, on the part of the man of sin, apostasy, a falling away, or is it blasphemous denial by one who never at any time acknowledged God?

"There is a departure concerning which the Thessalonians had been instructed by letter. This is not conjecture but fact: it is the Rapture of the Church, described in I Thessalonians 4:13-17. It was on account of the confusion in the minds of these young Christians, in the matter of events associated with the coming of the Lord, that this epistle was written—for some had sought to deceive them, as by spirit (claiming, perhaps, some new revelation from God), or by word (possibly a misinterpretation of something Paul said), or by letter as from Paul, telling the Thessalonians that the day of the Lord was already present. And how could the apostle set their minds at rest? He could assure them, `by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,' that the day of the Lord will not come `except there come the departure, the Rapture, first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.' The day of the Lord was not present; for they themselves, members of Christ's mystical Body, were still on earth. The Rapture had not already taken place, they being left behind; for the man of sin was not revealed.

"This interpretation corresponds perfectly in sequence, with that in verses 7 and 8, if the restraining power is, as we believe to be the case, the Holy Spirit. The Church departs, and the man of sin is revealed (vs. 3); the Holy Spirit, the restrainer, is taken out of the way, `and then shall that wicked one be revealed' (vss. 7,8)."

CONCLUSION
1. The word apostasia and its root verb, aphisteemi, do not, used by themselves, mean "apostasy" and "apostatize." They mean "departure" and "depart," nothing more.

2. II Thessalonians 2:3 states in the Greek, that the day of the Lord will not come "except the departure come first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."

3. The term "the departure," with the definite article, denotes previous reference.

4. Paul had written to the Thessalonians in his previous letter about the departure of the members of Christ's Body from this earth (I Thes. 4:16,17) and had even dissociated this from the prophesied "day of the Lord" with the "But" of I Thessalonians 5:1. He had also referred to this "departure" in the phrase "our gathering together unto Him," in II Thessalonians 2:1. Indeed, this was the basis for his appeal to the Thessalonians not to be "shaken" or "troubled" by those who would make them think that "the day of the Lord" was at hand. He had also "told" them about "these things" while he was yet with them (II Thes. 2:5).

5. "The man of sin" must also be manifested before the "day of the Lord" can come (II Thes. 2:3,4) and he cannot be manifested until "the departure" takes place "first."

6. Thus, in addition to many clear proofs that the Rapture of the Body will precede the great tribulation we also have a passage which "explicitly affirms" this.

"Wherefore comfort one another..." (I Thes. 4:18).

"Be not soon shaken in mind, or...troubled..." (II Thes. 2:2).

"Let no man deceive you by any means..." (II Thes. 2:3).


Endnotes
1. I Thessalonians 2:2 properly reads the "day of the Lord" not the "day of Christ."

2. "Such a noted scholar as Dr. George Milligan, in his commentary on the Greek Text (Macmillan, New York), although holding to the traditional translation of apostasia, states that the use of the definite article proves [that the apostasia referred to is one] regarding which the apostle's readers were already fully informed."

<:)))><


Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on March 02, 2004, 03:34:04 PM
Thanks for posting the above study Crusader, AAAAMEN to part 1 & 2.


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Petro on March 16, 2004, 01:13:19 AM
NOT ONE SCRIPTURE?
Quote
posted by the crusader at repoly#65
Some who hold to the post-trib Rapture position say that there is not one verse of Scripture which explicitly affirms the Rapture of the Church before the tribulation.

This is true, and there is a scripture that places Jesus second coming after the Great Tribulation (Mat 24:29)

Quote
But why need there be? There is not one verse of Scripture which explicitly affirms that our Lord was baptized before His temptation by the devil,

This is false there is scripture that confirms that Jesus was tempted by the devil after He was Baptized.

Note:

Mk 1
9  And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
10  And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
11  And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
12  And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness.
13  And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.

Quote
or that He was crowned with thorns before He was crucified,

Another false assumption;

Mk 15, also tells He was crowned with thorns, before His crucifixtion.

17  And they clothed him with purple, and platted a crown of thorns, and put it about his head,
18  And began to salute him, Hail, King of the Jews!
19  And they smote him on the head with a reed, and did spit upon him, and bowing their knees worshipped him.
20  And when they had mocked him, they took off the purple from him, and put his own clothes on him, and led him out to crucify him.
21  And they compel one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by, coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to bear his cross.
22  And they bring him unto the place Golgotha, which is, being interpreted, The place of a skull.
23  And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he received it not.
24  And when they had crucified him, they parted his garments, casting lots upon them, what every man should take.
25  And it was the third hour, and they crucified him.

Quote
Yet there is abundant Scriptural proof for all these and they are accepted as the truth of the Word of God.

This is true, but how does any of this prove a pre trib rapture......it doesn't..pure and simple.

Since Mat 24:29, makes indelibly clear that Jesus return to earth is after the great tribulation, it is up to those who preach a pre trib rapture to prove there will be one, before the tribulation, pre trib is not the same as mid trib, although many who subscribe to the pre trib will leave the dcoor open for perhaps a mid trib viewpoint.  Which simply points out their weak understanding of the biblical teaching of the pre wrath rapture.


Blessings,

Petro


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: The Crusader on March 16, 2004, 04:05:10 AM
Petro I agree with you a lot on other subjects, but on this subject you get a F-


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Petro on March 16, 2004, 11:04:59 PM
Well of course, I just showed you there are scriptures which you said were not there,

ARE they there or not??.

And besides you have already determined (in spite of what scripture, says) the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is the Gospel.

What else can be said........nothing.

But I love you anyhow...Bro.


God Bless You,

Petro


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: AJ on March 20, 2004, 12:37:51 AM
The fatal mistake the translators made was in failing to take into consideration the definite article before the word apostasia which appears in the Greek text of

The fatal mistake the translators made ???

Hmm... now where translating the Bible to fit in a Pre-Trib Rapture? Why dont this guy retranslate it all to suit himself better.. I wonder how he translates...Let no man deceive you.
Oops i spoke to soon  ;D He has one for that too!

Ahh well time will tell  

Bless you all







Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Petro on March 21, 2004, 12:30:33 AM
Quote
"The fatal mistake the translators made was in failing to take into consideration the definite article before the word apostasia which appears in the Greek text of Eberhard Nestle, in that of his son, Erwin Nestle, and in that of Westcott and Hort. A. T. Robertson in his monumental work, A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research, asserts that the translators of the A. V., under the influence of the Vulgate, dealt with the Greek article in a loose and inaccurate way (p. 756).

The definite aricle is not where the problem lies, it is in mans interpretation of  the very word apopstasia.

If Westcott and Hort agree with anything, I would be very careful to put any wait on what is said, without double checking it, with other sources.

The Pre Tribbers actually use this word apostasia to mean  rapture, so instead of apostasy at 2 Th 2:3, they have rapture occuring before the man of sin is revealed, speculating that the sign which reveals him, is his signing of some document with Israel.

My question is what about the apostasy??

When does that happen, clearly this is a sign of Jesus imminent return, I guess there is no apostasy first{/b] (falling away).

It doesn't make any sense.........much confusion in this camp.

Petro

Petro


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Bronzesnake on March 21, 2004, 08:45:51 AM
Here is a link to some pre-trib rapture verses...

www.bibleprophesy.org/rapture.htm (http://www.bibleprophesy.org/rapture.htm)


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Petro on March 22, 2004, 11:00:36 AM
The Pre Tribulation rapture hinges on ones interpretation of the Greek Word Apostasia #646, pre tribbers, define as departure/rapture, while the Greek Dictionary of the NT, defines it as: a departure from the truth, apostasy, falling away, forsake.

In addressing the error at 2 Th 2:1-4, Paul, refers to;

2 Tim 2
8 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

This because of false teachers in the church (just as there are today),

"Although the day of the Lord starts with the rapture, the presence of the Day of the Lord is wrath, darkness, trouble, and the tribulation.  (Zeph 1:15) The tribulations described in 2 Thess 1 were erroneously thought to be the tribulations of the day of the Lord. "

Verse 1, the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, is the same day of Christ at verse 2.

That "day" cannot be in progress unless the "falling away" (Greek apostasia) as its first event and the revealing of the man of lawlessness as the next distinct event have come to pass.

While many have fallen away from the faith ever since spostolic times (Heb 3:12, 1 Tim 4:1, 2 Tim 3:1-9, 4:3-4), the particular event Paul refers to here is the final and complete apostasy.  

This will be the deliberate and official denial of the doctrine of Christ Jesus and worldwide suppression of all organized chritianity.  

As long as there are true believers  on earth openly and publicly  worshipping the Lord Jesus Christ together, on the earth, the great apostasia has not begun.

But when great persecution begins, watch therfore, "for your  redemption draweth nigh."  (Jas Lk 21:8)


Blessings, to all who believe His Word.

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them. But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.  Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony. Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake. But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
In your patience possess ye your souls. And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

These are Jesus's own words.


Blessings,




Petro



Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Bronzesnake on March 23, 2004, 01:17:07 AM
 The following is By Dr. Jack Van Impe.

  "And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain, ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable."
 
- I Corinthians 15:14-19


  The Apostle Paul said it as well as it can be said. One cannot overstate the profound importance of the reality of the Resurrection of our Lord Jesus to our faith as Christians. If Jesus had not risen from the dead as the Bible states, then all who had and have fallen asleep (died in Christ) are perished and our hope for eternal life is gone. If Jesus had remained in the grave so would we - but praise God He is risen.

  Think about what happened when Christ rose from the grave? What was left behind? All they found in that sepulcher was our Lord's grave clothes. What's the significance of that?

  In I Corinthians 15:23, it says, Christ is the "firstfruits" of the Resurrection. The first fruits. Isn't that plain? Then in the text it explains that afterwards, or later, "they that are Christ's at his coming" will follow. It's there in God's Word. What it means is that since His clothes were left behind, ours will be also. Those that belong to Christ at the time of His coming will be bodily translated into heaven just as Jesus was - leaving behind the rags of sin for new robes of righteousness.

  When Jesus Christ comes to call us home at the Rapture, He will come exactly as He left. How did He leave? He left bodily into the clouds. Acts 1:9 says, "And when he (Jesus) had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go.'"

  In other words, if I can prove that He went bodily, then I don't have to go any further to prove that He's coming back bodily. Why? Because the Bible says He's coming back exactly as He left. How did He leave? After spending three days in the grave, He rose and stood on the earth in His new body. In Luke 24:39, He says to some of His followers, "Behold, my hands and my feet. It is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." In verse 41, He says, "Have ye here any meat? And they gave him a piece of broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them."

  This is Christ in His new resurrected body - a body that could be seen, a body that could be touched, a body that could partake of food. It's a picture of what we will have at the time of the Rapture. How quickly will it happen? "Behold, I show you a mystery," the Bible tells us in I Corinthians 15:51-54. "We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible (the dead) must put on incorruption, and this mortal (the living) must put on immortality."

  This is going to be a glorious event. We shall be changed to be like Jesus. The Psalmist said in chapter 17, verse 15: "I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness." In Philippians 3:21, Paul says that God will change our vile bodies - not leave them behind, change them - that they may be fashioned "like unto his glorious body." In I John 3:2, it says that when we see Jesus, we shall be like Him, "for we shall see him as he is."

  Did you know that Jesus wasn't the first person to be "raptured" out of this earth? In fact, when the Rapture occurs, it will be the fourth one documented in the Bible. The first was Enoch in Genesis 5:24: And Enoch walked with God; and he was not; for God took him. In Hebrews 11:5, Paul adds, that Enoch was translated by faith so that he should not see death. He was "raptured" - caught up in the twinkling of an eye, without dying. The second documented "rapture" is Elijah in II Kings 2:11. Elijah was caught up by a whirlwind into heaven. He, too, never saw death, foreshadowing what we believers will experience on the day the Lord catches us up in the clouds. Then, of course, Jesus was "raptured" away in Acts 1:9: "And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight."

  When Elijah was caught up, angels and chariots of fire came to get him. I personally believe that, in a similar way, angelic hosts may come after those of us who ascend in the Rapture. Why? Because every believer - not just Elijah - has his own ministering angel. They could come to whisk us home in the twinkling of an eye. Luke 16:22 provides a precedent for us: "And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom."

  Is all this something that should frighten us? Excited, yes. Frightened, no. So many people today are facing the approach of the millennium with dread - with fear and foreboding. There is an anticipation - even in the secular media - that we may be nearing the end of the world. There is anxiety and hopelessness everywhere. The world seems to get just a bit uglier every day as crime increases and wars break out and immorality reigns.


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Bronzesnake on March 23, 2004, 01:17:46 AM
Continued...

This is not the way believers should feel - especially in this season when we are remembering what Jesus did for us on the cross of Calvary and how He victoriously defeated the last enemy, death, I Corinthians 15:26. What could be more exciting and encouraging than the idea that some of us will never die? In Titus 2:13, Paul calls the Rapture our "blessed hope." In I Thessalonians 4:18, he says, "Comfort one another with these words." "Comfort one another," he says, not frighten one another.

  I've got news for you. The world is not - I repeat, not - coming to an end. The world is not going away in the year 2000, nor even a thousand years after that. God has shown me something in the last year to change my mind concerning this subject. It is clear from scripture that the world will not even end after Christ's 1,000-year reign on earth. The world will never end. Isaiah 45:17 is unequivocal: It's a world without end. "Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen," Paul writes in Ephesians 3:21.

  Skeptics will no doubt point to Matthew 24:3 which states: "As he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" Let's recall that the New Testament was written in Greek. The Greek translation of that last world is "age," not "world." Once again, the world is not coming to an end. But this epoch, this age, is closing. And, yes, the advent of the year 2000 does have some significance. Why? Because it could conceivably be the ending of the age of grace and beginning of the millennial age when the King of kings and Lord of lords returns (compare Matthew 24:3 and Matthew 25:34 for proof).

  Long before Christ was born, the Jewish rabbis taught a six-day theory about the future of the world. They believed that the world would face several eras lasting a total of 6,000 years, from Adam's creation until the Messiah would come. This theory was based, in part, on Psalm 90:4: "For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday." Since God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh day, they reasoned, the world would go on for 6,000 years followed by a 1,000-year millennial "rest" period presided over by the Lord himself.

  Think about this. From the creation of Adam until the birth of Christ a period of 4,000 years - or four days passed. From Christ's time on earth until now represents approximately another 2,000 years - or two days. This total of six days is just one more reason to believe that Jesus could return very, very soon.

  Six-day periods, followed by remarkable transitions, have been important throughout scripture. Look at Matthew 17:1, for example. "And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And he was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light." Jesus was giving them a preview of what it would be like when He comes back as King of Kings and Lord of Lords as described in Revelation 19:16. When they came down from that mountain, He told them not to tell anyone of these things until after His Resurrection.

  Not only did the ancient Jewish rabbis teach this six-day theory, but so did the church during the first 300 years of Christendom. The church leaders based their belief on II Peter 3:8: "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." St. Victorinus, the bishop of Petah, wrote a commentary on the book of Revelation in 270 AD. He said he saw another great and wonderful sign - "Seven angels having the last seven plagues, for in them is completed the indignation of God. And these shall be in the last time when the church shall have gone out of the midst." In other words, St. Victorinus was talking about the Rapture! This teaching is not a present day innovation but a doctrinal statement dating back 17 centuries to St. Victorinus and 20 centuries to Jesus and Paul.

  In the 16th century there were those expressing assurance of the Rapture. Hugh Latimer, burned at the stake for his faith in 1555, said: "It may come in my days, old as I am, or in my children's days, the saints shall be taken up to meet Christ in the air and so shall come down with him again." Joseph Medde, the great 16th century literalist understood I Thessalonians 4:13-18 to teach the catching up of the saints and even used the word "rapture." So this is not some new idea.

  However, understand this: The Rapture is not taught in Matthew, Mark and Luke. You can find it twice in the Gospel of John. Any other time you are reading about Christ's return in the gospels, it is not referring to the Rapture. Instead, these are references to the second phase of Christ's return - when He physically comes back to earth to rule over it after a seven-year Tribulation period and it's called, in theological circles, "the Revelation" or the revealing of Christ upon earth.

  Where are the two Rapture texts in the Gospel of John? John 14:1-3: "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." This is not His coming to the earth. This is the point at which He receives us unto Himself at the great Rapture - the snatching away - to be with Him in heaven as the seven years of torment occur on earth. The second reference is in John 11:25,26. I quoted this passage for years but didn't really understand it. Christ said: "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

  Jesus is contrasting those who experience death and live again ("for the dead in Christ rise first," I Thessalonians 4:16) with those who never experience death (because "we which are alive and remain" are caught up without dying, I Thessalonians 4:17).

  It's a fact that God always spares His own from judgment. When the horrendous worldwide flood came in Noah's day, Noah told those who were prepared to COME INTO the ark, Genesis 7:7. When the judgment fell on Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19:14, the angels told Lot and his family to COME OUT of the city. Notice this trilogy: In Noah's day, it was COME IN. In Lot's day it was COME OUT. In our day, it will be COME UP, Revelation 4:1.

But, of course, as always, only a select group will be saved - rescued from the worst period in human history. During the Tribulation period that follows the Rapture, all hell is going to break loose on planet earth. It will be a furious time because the hindering power of the Holy Spirit will be temporarily removed. With all the Bible tells us about how we should live on earth, there are almost no instructions about how to prepare for this post-Rapture period. Our newest video, "Left Behind: The Final Warning!," can help. More than anything else, it can serve as a survival manual for those who fail to come to Christ before He comes for His Church and Bride. Make sure all of your loved ones - saved and unsaved, get a copy of this survival video.

  How bad will things get? In Revelation 9:18, it indicates that a third of mankind will be killed by fire, smoke and brimstone. That, my friends, is nothing less than a first century way of explaining all-out thermonuclear warfare. Imagine. There are nearly 6 billion people on the earth today. If one-third are killed, that's a holocaust representing 2 billion lives. But that's just the beginning. In Revelation 6:8, the rider on the fourth horse brings with him a worldwide plague of disease that causes another fourth of humanity to perish. That's another billion. So half the human race will be annihilated in this relatively brief period. This pictures the judgment predicted by Jesus in Matthew 24:41 and 42.

  As terrible as that fate sounds, there is still hope for those left behind. I used to believe and teach that if one hadn't accepted the Lord before the Rapture, all was lost. I was wrong. As long as one is alive there's hope. Joel chapter 2 and Acts chapter 2 describe the calamitous tribulation period. In the midst of all the carnage and destruction Joel 2:32 and Acts 2:21 states: "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

  There's always hope in Jesus. That's what we need to reflect upon, not only during this victorious resurrection season, but all year long.


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Petro on March 24, 2004, 03:16:27 AM
Quote
posted by bronzesanke as reply #

 In I Corinthians 15:23, it says, Christ is the "firstfruits" of the Resurrection. The first fruits. Isn't that plain? Then in the text it explains that afterwards, or later, "they that are Christ's at his coming" will follow. It's there in God's Word. What it means is that since His clothes were left behind, ours will be also. Those that belong to Christ at the time of His coming will be bodily translated into heaven just as Jesus was - leaving behind the rags of sin for new robes of righteousness.

bronzesanke,

This message you have posted, of course is on the rapture, and they way this person sets this up, is by this paraghraph, but it is at the 2d page (the 2d paragraph that the bomb shell  is dropped, on the reader.

"The world will never end."  Isa 54:17, says nothing of the sort; and actually this is not altogether true, this world perish in  fire, when God rolls up as a scroll, it is the New World that will never end.

However, a verse came to mind as I read this message, with reagrd to the 2d paragraph of the 1st page;

Col 2
10  And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11  In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12  Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13  And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14  Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15  And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Now there at verse 12, is the resurrection, of which we who are saved are partakers of.

And he, who has part in the frist resurrection, he shall not be hurt by the second death.  (Rev 2:11, 20:6)

Blessings,

Petro
Whats wrong with it, is that  


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Bronzesnake on March 24, 2004, 11:50:54 AM
Hello Petro.

 Here's a quote from you...

"This message you have posted, of course is on the rapture, and they way this person sets this up, is by this paraghraph, but it is at the 2d page (the 2d paragraph that the bomb shell  is dropped, on the reader.

"The world will never end."  Isa 54:17, says nothing of the sort; and actually this is not altogether true, this world perish in  fire, when God rolls up as a scroll, it is the New World that will never end."

You are, of course, right Petro...Isa 54:17 says nothing of the sort, but the verse which is actually quoted does...Isa 45:17

Isa 45:17 [But] Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.  

As far as "this is not altogether true, this world perish in  fire, when God rolls up as a scroll, it is the New World that will never end."
 I think you're splitting hairs on this one Petro. When people think of the end of the world, they wrongly believe the earth will be completely destroyed never to be again, and some believe we are wisked off to Heaven somewhere in outerspace where it now resides. However, the Bible is clear, we will dwell on earth, and God will be here with us...

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.

Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,  


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Bronzesnake on March 24, 2004, 12:24:08 PM
Hello again Petro my brother.

Here is a quote from you...


"However, a verse came to mind as I read this message, with reagrd to the 2d paragraph of the 1st page;

"Col 2
10  And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11  In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12  Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13  And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14  Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15  And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Now there at verse 12, is the resurrection, of which we who are saved are partakers of.

And he, who has part in the frist resurrection, he shall not be hurt by the second death.  (Rev 2:11, 20:6)

Blessings,

Petro
Whats wrong with it, is that"

 This in no way disprooves the Rapture Petro. Once you understand what is being described.  

You pointed out verse 12..."12  Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him  through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

Why does it say also? This points out the fact that others are risen which did not die, that is a clear cut distinction, otherwise why use the term also? why not just say "burried with Him in baptism, are risen with Him?

 You know that many people are saved by Jesus from the time He lived until the day He returns. Obviously many thousands, even millions of believers are already dead going back two thousand years until present day. Those are "the dead in Christ" from the following verses...

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  

The dead are Raptured first...


 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  

 Then those of us who are still alive and remain remain where?...here on earth. Are caught up with them With who? the dead in Christ! this is the Rapture! It doesn't get more plain than this.

This verse describes both the dead and living being caught up together in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air!!

This is not the second coming...Jesus is not depicted returning on a white horse here, nor do His feet touch the Mount of Olives. He decends from Heaven with a shout In other words, He is calling His elect. And we meet Him in the clouds, in the air. The final sentence reads...


"and so shall we ever be with the Lord"

That is why we are depicted in Rev 19:14 returning to earth with Jesus If we weren't Raptured up to Heaven in the first place how can we be returning to earth with Jesus?

If we were to be left to face the horrors of the Great Tribulation why would we be asked to do the following...


1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.  

It would seem a cruel joke if not for the Rapture wouldn't it Petro?

Jesus loves us!!
Bronzesnake


Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: The Crusader on March 29, 2004, 05:42:28 AM
From: http://www.ephesians3-9.com/view/?pageID=133525
     
What Happens To Those Who Are LEFT BEHIND? Part 1


The creators of this site expect a pretribulational Rapture of the Church, the Body of Christ. We also know that many have been led to hear, understand, and believe the Gospel of the grace of God through the reading of these books. For that we are thankful!

However, there is a valid concern regarding the first book of the series which has been voiced by some in the Church. It is a concern we share. Below we make some points from the text of the novel; italics within story text are added for emphasis.

In chapters ten and eleven of Left Behind, we are introduced to Bruce Barnes, an assistant pastor of the church that had been attended by the raptured wife and son of unbeliever Rayford Steele, one of the book's main characters. Talking over the phone, Barnes informs Steele that,

"Nearly every member and regular attender of this church is gone. I am the only person on the staff who remains" (p. 126).

Steele and his unbelieving daughter Chloe meet Barnes at the church. Speaking of himself Barnes says,

"A few people [church-members who were left behind] wanted to argue with God, trying to tell us that they really had been believers and should have been taken with the others, but we all knew the truth. We had been phony. There wasn't a one of us who didn't know what it meant to be a true Christian. We knew we weren't and that we'd been left behind" (p. 142).

Steele asks Barnes how a pastor could miss the Rapture. Pointing out that Steele's wife had been a true believer, Barnes confesses,

"I lied...I had a real racket going...and I bought into it. Down deep, way down deep, I knew better...Jesus Christ returned for His true family, and the rest of us were left behind" (pp. 143-144).

Now here's where the problem really begins, in our opinion. A few pages later, after Chloe hears the Gospel but rejects Barnes' offer to "pray with you and lead you in how to talk to God about this" [an unbiblical invitation which is a whole other problem] Barnes says,

"I believe God has forgiven me" (p. 147), later saying that he "repented of [his] sins and truly received Christ," referring to himself as "a brand-new Christian" (p. 161).

The presumably now-saved Barnes gives Steele a videotape the raptured senior pastor made for just this occasion. Speaking of the Rapture itself, the pastor says something very odd:

"You may wonder why this has happened. Some believe this is the judgment of God on an ungodly world. Actually, that is to come later. Strange as this may sound to you, this [the Rapture] is God's final effort to get the attention of every person who has ignored or rejected Him. He is allowing now a vast period of trial and tribulation to come to you who remain. He has removed His church from a corrupt world...I believe God's purpose in this [the Rapture] is to allow those who remain to take stock of themselves and leave their frantic search for pleasure and self-fulfillment, and turn to the Bible for truth and to Christ for salvation" (p. 154).

Later the videotape says to the left behind, "The point now is, you have another chance. Don't miss it" (p. 156).

They are warned of the coming Antichrist, too:

"Pray that God will help you. Receive His salvation gift right now. And resist the lies and efforts of the Antichrist, who is sure to rise up soon. Remember, he will deceive many. Don't be counted among them" (p. 156).

This section of Left Behind is, we believe, the fundamental problem of this book.

Like LaHaye, we are looking for a pretribulational Rapture of the Church, the Body of Christ. But there is a VERY important biblical fact that an unbeliever reading this book should be aware of, but which Left Behind doesn't tell them. We ask two questions to illustrate this point:

1) Who does the Bible say will be left behind at the Rapture?

2) Does the Bible give hope of salvation to those left behind at the Rapture?

These two questions can, we believe, be answered by one passage of Scripture. That passage is found in the second letter Paul wrote to the Thessalonian believers:


"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the secret of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let [restrains], until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming: even Him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12).

This passage is relevant because it deals with three major events depicted in Left Behind: the Rapture of the Church; what happens to those left behind at the Rapture, and the start of the Tribulation/rise of Antichrist.

This passage seems to indicate that those who "received not the love of truth that they might be saved" (and so be part of the Raptured Church) but rather "had pleasure in unrighteousness" will be left behind at the Rapture. This is the fate of Pastor Barnes, and is biblically accurate as far as it goes.



Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: The Crusader on March 29, 2004, 05:43:26 AM
From: http://www.ephesians3-9.com/view/?pageID=133525
   
What Happens To Those Who Are LEFT BEHIND? Part 2


But then Left Behind goes into potentially grievous error. As the rest of the passage teaches, those who had heard and understood the Gospel of the grace of God before the Rapture, but rejected it (as Barnes had), would not be merely "left behind" for their unbelief. Rather, God will also send them "strong delusion" so that they will obey Antichrist, which will eliminate any second chance at salvation:

"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, 'If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name' " (Revelation 14:9-11).

Thus it appears that professing Christians (outwardly religious folks who knowingly rejected the Gospel prior to the Rapture) not only cannot be saved after the Rapture, but will be caused by God to keep believing lies; this will invariably lead them to obey Antichrist and take his unforgivable mark upon themselves. At what point God sends this "strong delusion" the passage does not state. But given that Gospel rejectors will receive it, it is doubtful that Barnes would be the humble, repentant, newly-saved sinner Left Behind makes him out to be.

So to answer our questions:

1) Who does the Bible say will be left behind at the Rapture of the Church?

All the unsaved; i.e., those who never trusted Christ, and so were never members of His Body, the one true Church.

2) Does the Bible give hope of salvation to those left behind at the Rapture?


It would have to depend on what they had heard of Christ. If they'd never heard of Him, then surely God in His grace will see to it that they hear of Him during the Tribulation. If they had understood the Gospel but rejected it, then Paul's answer seems to be a definite "no," especially in light of the delusion sent them by God as judgment for their unbelief.

It should be pointed out, however, that there is an alternative view which bears consideration. Pastor Paul Sadler, president of the Berean Bible Society, has written a book entitled The Triumph of His Grace: Preparing Ourselves for the Rapture. Pastor Sadler observes,

"Some understand from Paul's words in II Thessalonians 2:8-12 that those who reject the grace of God in this dispensation will not be given a second chance in the coming Day of the Lord" (p. 104).

He believes that this view is without merit:

"As we pass from the dispensation of Grace to the dispensation of Divine Government, the change is going to be abrupt. There will not be a transition period at the close of this dispensation as there was at the beginning of it. When the last member is placed into the Body of Christ and the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, the gospel fo the grace of God will be proclaimed no longer. Following our homegoing, God will reinstate the kingdom gospel at the dawn of the tribulation:

'And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come' (Matt. 24:14).

"In this context, then, the truth that men refuse to receive that they might be saved is not the gospel of grace, rather it is the kingdom gospel. It is our firm conviction that those who are left behind after our departure will be given another chance to be saved in the age to come. This is in keeping with the very nature of God who is rich in mercy and '...not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance' (II Peter 3:9). In all probability, the majority of those who fail to receive Christ under grace will continue in unbelief. Nevertheless, the door of salvation will remain open, although it will be much more difficult for a Gentile to be saved since the terms of the kingdom gospel are far more involved" (p. 111-112).

Pastor Sadler is correct that the deciding factor on which of these two views is the correct one depends on the dispensational context of Paul's warning; i.e., to which Gospel message was Paul referring? Was he saying that those who refuse today's Gospel of the grace of God (thus missing the Rapture) will go into the Tribulation unsaved and unsavable? Or was Paul referring to people yet future to us, who during the Tribulation period will refuse the salvation message of that day, the Gospel of the Kingdom, and will be compelled to accept Antichrist?

I still lean toward the more traditional interpretation of this passage, but must agree with a statement made by David Reagan of Lamb and Lion Ministries, in a review of Left Behind:

"This passage [2 Thess. 2] seems to teach that people who have rejected the truth before the Rapture will continue to do so. Because of this passage, I cannot say with absolute confidence that those who have rejected the Gospel before the Rapture will have the possibility of accepting it afterwards. I hope Tim LaHaye is right, but I would not want to give such people any false hope" (The Lamplighter, Jan-Feb 2001).

I, too, sincerely hope Tim LaHaye and Paul Sadler are correct. But like Reagan, I would not want to give false hope to those who today hear and understand the Gospel they read in Left Behind or elsewhere, but put off believing it "until later."

I can remember a time in my pre-Christian life when, in exchange for my grossly sinful lifestyle, I gladly put off even thinking about salvation because I was confident I'd have plenty of chances to take care of it "later."

I can recall thinking thoughts along the lines of, "I know some hard-core Christians...I'll wait to see if this Rapture thing happens; if it does, THEN I'll get right with God! And if it doesn't happen, I'll just keep on keeping on."

To this day I distinctly recall occassions when I was unexpectedly exposed to the Gospel, only to deliberately and immediately force it from my mind.

I don't know about you, fellow Christian, but I can still remember what NOT wanting to hear ANYTHING about Christ felt like! Believe me: I DID think these thoughts, and this was years before Left Behind was written. But by the grace of God I did not die before "later" came!

And that is the reason I believe Tim LaHaye's teachings on this facet of the Rapture are - potentially - eternally tragic. Again, I do hope that those who hear and understand the Gospel of grace, but miss the Rapture due to unbelief, will have a second chance to be saved during the Tribulation. But to imply, as Left Behind does, that unbelievers can bet their eternal destiny on the hope of "salvation later" when it is not 100% clear that Scripture supports it -- and even though they could still miss the Rapture by dying before it comes! -- is not a position in which I would feel comfortable placing myself.

http://www.ephesians3-9.com/view/?pageID=133525


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Petro on March 29, 2004, 08:33:29 AM
Hello again Petro my brother.

Here is a quote from you...


"However, a verse came to mind as I read this message, with reagrd to the 2d paragraph of the 1st page;

"Col 2
10  And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11  In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12  Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13  And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14  Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15  And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Now there at verse 12, is the resurrection, of which we who are saved are partakers of.

And he, who has part in the frist resurrection, he shall not be hurt by the second death.  (Rev 2:11, 20:6)

Blessings,

Petro
Whats wrong with it, is that"

 This in no way disprooves the Rapture Petro. Once you understand what is being described.  

You pointed out verse 12..."12  Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him  through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."

Why does it say also? This points out the fact that others are risen which did not die, that is a clear cut distinction, otherwise why use the term also? why not just say "burried with Him in baptism, are risen with Him?

 You know that many people are saved by Jesus from the time He lived until the day He returns. Obviously many thousands, even millions of believers are already dead going back two thousand years until present day. Those are "the dead in Christ" from the following verses...

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  

The dead are Raptured first...


 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  

 Then those of us who are still alive and remain remain where?...here on earth. Are caught up with them With who? the dead in Christ! this is the Rapture! It doesn't get more plain than this.

This verse describes both the dead and living being caught up together in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air!!

This is not the second coming...Jesus is not depicted returning on a white horse here, nor do His feet touch the Mount of Olives. He decends from Heaven with a shout In other words, He is calling His elect. And we meet Him in the clouds, in the air. The final sentence reads...


"and so shall we ever be with the Lord"

That is why we are depicted in Rev 19:14 returning to earth with Jesus If we weren't Raptured up to Heaven in the first place how can we be returning to earth with Jesus?

If we were to be left to face the horrors of the Great Tribulation why would we be asked to do the following...


1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.  

It would seem a cruel joke if not for the Rapture wouldn't it Petro?

Jesus loves us!!
Bronzesnake


BZ,

Nice to hear from you again..

You didn't make any sense to me on your previous post so, that is why I didn't answer it.

However on this one, you do make some sense of it.

The problem is that you mis interpret the word also at verse 12, in the original text the word is kai normally translated and, and by its use, one can understand what is being said;

12  Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

It is relative to being buried with Him in baptism, (not water baptism) but baptism with the Holy Spirit, (as promised at Jhn 1:33-34), thus the word also, it has nothing to do with others.

It is all by faith in the operation of what God has done.

And truly this is a matter of fact in this present life, for all who have been baptized with the Holy Spirit, without human hands.

Now how does this relate to your teaching, which says;

Christians can lose their salvation??

Must one be, unbaptised by with Holy Spirit, and be unresurrected, by faith in the operation of God???

It doesn't make any sense, ...............or does it??


By the way, I believe in a rapture, I am not necessarily convinced it is a Pre Trib event. It is the wrath of God, which we have been promised to be kept from, not tribulation, there is a difference .

 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Christians are not of the world.

It seems to me christians seek the best of both worlds.....


Christians that believe in a Prer Trib, do very little in the way of evangelization, they would rather leave that task up to others, and send money, or join a prayer group for missions(not that there is anything wrong with either) but, if you saw ten christians carrying a telephone pole, nine on one end and one on the other, which end would you run to and help??

Gods not interested in our $ or prayers to HIM to send others, He desires us to wholly give of ourselves, to the work of the ministry of givinbg out His Word.

Blessings,


Petro


Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Ambassador4Christ on March 30, 2004, 02:39:56 PM
From: http://www.ephesians3-9.com/view/?pageID=133525
   
What Happens To Those Who Are LEFT BEHIND? Part 2


But then Left Behind goes into potentially grievous error. As the rest of the passage teaches, those who had heard and understood the Gospel of the grace of God before the Rapture, but rejected it (as Barnes had), would not be merely "left behind" for their unbelief. Rather, God will also send them "strong delusion" so that they will obey Antichrist, which will eliminate any second chance at salvation:

"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, 'If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name' " (Revelation 14:9-11).

Thus it appears that professing Christians (outwardly religious folks who knowingly rejected the Gospel prior to the Rapture) not only cannot be saved after the Rapture, but will be caused by God to keep believing lies; this will invariably lead them to obey Antichrist and take his unforgivable mark upon themselves. At what point God sends this "strong delusion" the passage does not state. But given that Gospel rejectors will receive it, it is doubtful that Barnes would be the humble, repentant, newly-saved sinner Left Behind makes him out to be.

So to answer our questions:

1) Who does the Bible say will be left behind at the Rapture of the Church?

All the unsaved; i.e., those who never trusted Christ, and so were never members of His Body, the one true Church.

2) Does the Bible give hope of salvation to those left behind at the Rapture?


It would have to depend on what they had heard of Christ. If they'd never heard of Him, then surely God in His grace will see to it that they hear of Him during the Tribulation. If they had understood the Gospel but rejected it, then Paul's answer seems to be a definite "no," especially in light of the delusion sent them by God as judgment for their unbelief.

It should be pointed out, however, that there is an alternative view which bears consideration. Pastor Paul Sadler, president of the Berean Bible Society, has written a book entitled The Triumph of His Grace: Preparing Ourselves for the Rapture. Pastor Sadler observes,

"Some understand from Paul's words in II Thessalonians 2:8-12 that those who reject the grace of God in this dispensation will not be given a second chance in the coming Day of the Lord" (p. 104).

He believes that this view is without merit:

"As we pass from the dispensation of Grace to the dispensation of Divine Government, the change is going to be abrupt. There will not be a transition period at the close of this dispensation as there was at the beginning of it. When the last member is placed into the Body of Christ and the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, the gospel fo the grace of God will be proclaimed no longer. Following our homegoing, God will reinstate the kingdom gospel at the dawn of the tribulation:

'And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come' (Matt. 24:14).

"In this context, then, the truth that men refuse to receive that they might be saved is not the gospel of grace, rather it is the kingdom gospel. It is our firm conviction that those who are left behind after our departure will be given another chance to be saved in the age to come. This is in keeping with the very nature of God who is rich in mercy and '...not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance' (II Peter 3:9). In all probability, the majority of those who fail to receive Christ under grace will continue in unbelief. Nevertheless, the door of salvation will remain open, although it will be much more difficult for a Gentile to be saved since the terms of the kingdom gospel are far more involved" (p. 111-112).

Pastor Sadler is correct that the deciding factor on which of these two views is the correct one depends on the dispensational context of Paul's warning; i.e., to which Gospel message was Paul referring? Was he saying that those who refuse today's Gospel of the grace of God (thus missing the Rapture) will go into the Tribulation unsaved and unsavable? Or was Paul referring to people yet future to us, who during the Tribulation period will refuse the salvation message of that day, the Gospel of the Kingdom, and will be compelled to accept Antichrist?

I still lean toward the more traditional interpretation of this passage, but must agree with a statement made by David Reagan of Lamb and Lion Ministries, in a review of Left Behind:

"This passage [2 Thess. 2] seems to teach that people who have rejected the truth before the Rapture will continue to do so. Because of this passage, I cannot say with absolute confidence that those who have rejected the Gospel before the Rapture will have the possibility of accepting it afterwards. I hope Tim LaHaye is right, but I would not want to give such people any false hope" (The Lamplighter, Jan-Feb 2001).

I, too, sincerely hope Tim LaHaye and Paul Sadler are correct. But like Reagan, I would not want to give false hope to those who today hear and understand the Gospel they read in Left Behind or elsewhere, but put off believing it "until later."

I can remember a time in my pre-Christian life when, in exchange for my grossly sinful lifestyle, I gladly put off even thinking about salvation because I was confident I'd have plenty of chances to take care of it "later."

I can recall thinking thoughts along the lines of, "I know some hard-core Christians...I'll wait to see if this Rapture thing happens; if it does, THEN I'll get right with God! And if it doesn't happen, I'll just keep on keeping on."

To this day I distinctly recall occassions when I was unexpectedly exposed to the Gospel, only to deliberately and immediately force it from my mind.

I don't know about you, fellow Christian, but I can still remember what NOT wanting to hear ANYTHING about Christ felt like! Believe me: I DID think these thoughts, and this was years before Left Behind was written. But by the grace of God I did not die before "later" came!

And that is the reason I believe Tim LaHaye's teachings on this facet of the Rapture are - potentially - eternally tragic. Again, I do hope that those who hear and understand the Gospel of grace, but miss the Rapture due to unbelief, will have a second chance to be saved during the Tribulation. But to imply, as Left Behind does, that unbelievers can bet their eternal destiny on the hope of "salvation later" when it is not 100% clear that Scripture supports it -- and even though they could still miss the Rapture by dying before it comes! -- is not a position in which I would feel comfortable placing myself.

http://www.ephesians3-9.com/view/?pageID=133525

I Loved both parts of What Happens To Those Who Are LEFT BEHIND? GRRRRREAT Teaching, AAAAAAAAAAAMEN


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Warrior For Christ on April 16, 2004, 05:54:19 PM
One Hope - The imminent, personal return of the Lord Jesus Christ to catch up the members of His body to be with Him forever is the "blessed hope" of the believer (I Thes. 4:13-18; Titus 2:13). The body of Christ will not be on the earth during the time of Jacob's trouble, also known as the Tribulation (Rom 13:11; I Thes. 4:13-16, 5:1-11; II Thes. 2:1-17).


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Petro on April 19, 2004, 02:19:57 PM
The rapture doctrine is not a matter of losing salvation, but decption and those who are may not be saved, though they believe they are.

Not everyonje who claims the name of Christ belong to Him, this is what he says;

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?  (Mat 7:21-22)

But notice what He says to those who, come to Him in that day;

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.    (Mat 7:21-23)

Only those who belong to Christ, will not be deceived, and it has nothing to do them, but wil be because the Holy Spirit keeps Gods chosen from the great deception, which will bring about the great apostasy in these latter days.

Here is that verse, Jesus spoke;

Mat 24
24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


Gods chosen elect  will not be deceived because it will not  be possible for the evil one to deceive them, at this time.

What time??

The time imediately before His return.

The time of the "rapture", His Second Coming.....

Note:

[color]Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. [/color]  (Mat 24:4-14)


The ends times will be marked by great deception, and many who call themselves christians will fall to it.


Don't be deceived.


Blessings,

Petro


Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Brother Love on April 20, 2004, 04:57:05 AM
Re-Posted 4/20/04

 THE RAPTURE!
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2003, 05:51:46 PM »    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You've probably heard someone proclaim confidently that rapture is not in the Bible. Many have accepted this challenge to the truth at face value. But contrary to popular belief, the concept and the word "rapture" are in the Bible.

"These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so." Acts 17:11

The Root of the Issue

The Bible has been translated into many languages from the original languages in which it was written (mainly Hebrew and Koine Greek). We must keep this in mind when we affirm that something is or is not in "the Bible." The common Latin verb "rapere" (root of the English "rapture") is in the Latin Bible (2 Cor. 12:4; 1 Thes. 4:17). It is translated from the original New Testament Greek verb "harpazo." This is where we derive the English word "harpoon" from. Most English Bibles translate it as "caught up." However it could just as easily be translated "carried away," "snatched up," "seized away by force," or "raptured" (see "catch" in Vine's Dict.)! In other words "rapture," "harpazo" and "catch up" are all synonyms in three different languages (Latin, Greek, English) which are in "the Bible." Before saying something is not in the Bible, it must first be defined.

"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32

Testing the Rule

The word "rapture" may not be in most English translations of the Bible. However, to say that it is not in "the Bible" attains to the ignorance of saying that the Hebrew words Yahweh (LORD) or Yeshua (Jesus or Joshua) are not in the Bible. The same unsound reasoning could also be used to dismiss the legitimacy of the word "Bible." It is not actually in the translated text of the English Bible, but it is a transliteration of the New Testament Greek word "biblion" ("book" in Lk. 4:17). The word "trinity/triunity" is yet another Biblical term not found in the Bible. However the concept of the three persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) of the "Godhead" (Rom. 1:20, Col. 2:9) sharing one divine nature is undeniable fact (Deut. 6:4; Mt. 3:16, 28:19; Jn 10:30; 14:16; 1 Cor. 12:4-6; 2 Cor. 5:19; Eph. 1:3-14; Php. 2:6...). Furthermore, in addition to the rapture, many English concepts are also labeled with Latin names (plants, animals, music, grammatics, etc.). For Latin has historically been considered the language of education, religion and science. This same critical examination should be used anytime a sound Biblical doctrine is challenged. Especially on as shaky ground as this.

"Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables." 2 Timothy 4:2-4


In summary, yes! Rapture is in "the Bible." The Latin derivative "rapture" is a synonym for the English "catch up." Both terms are translated from the Greek "harpazo." All three terms are found in the Bible which corresponds to their respective languages (2 Cor. 12:4; 1 Thes. 4:17). Therefore it is Biblical and perfectly appropriate that the event of First Thessalonians four be referred to as the Rapture.

"Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up (harpazo, raptured) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words." 1 Thes. 4:17-18

MARANATHA!!! (1 Cor. 16:22, Aramaic: "Our Lord, come")




Title: The Two Comings of Christ
Post by: Warrior For Christ on April 23, 2004, 01:48:03 PM
The Two Comings of Christ

The second coming: A prophesied event from the foundation of the world.
Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these,    saying,  Behold, the lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints. (KJV)

 

Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, (KJV)

 

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the         latter day upon the earth: (KJV)  

 

Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: (Ezk Chapter 36 & 37) (KJV)

Christ returns as judge and King of Kings
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse: and he that sat  upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge  and make war. (KJV)  

 

Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King of Kings, and Lord of Lords. (KJV)  

 

Rev 19:17 For the great day of his wrath is come: and who shall be able to stand? (KJV)

Christ’s visible return to the earth to redeem the Nation of Israel:
Zech 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives, (KJV)

 

Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (KJV)

 

Acts 1:11 This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. (KJV)

Judgment of Israel and the Nations on earth:
Matt 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: (KJV)

 

Matt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another. (KJV)

 

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds: and every eye shall see him,

The rapture of the body of Christ (the church) an unprophesied event kept secret before the foundation of the world. Christ’s invisible return in heaven to catch away the body of Christ.
I Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. (KJV)

 

I Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the         trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (KJV)

 

I Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,  with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (KJV)

 

I Thes 4:17 Then we, which are alive and remain shall be caught up    together with         them in the air. (KJV)

 

Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. (KJV)

 

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: (KJV)

After the rapture, the judgment seat of Christ in heaven.
II Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ: (KJV)

 

I Cor 3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest:

 

I Cor 3:14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. (KJV)

 

I Cor 3:15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (KJV)

Grace Age Church

Ray Watson ray37801@yahoo.com

Tony Boring tboring@graceagechurch.com

Heidi heidi@graceagechurch.com



 


Title: The Two Comings of Christ
Post by: Brother Love on April 27, 2004, 05:46:40 AM
The Two Comings of Christ

The second coming: A prophesied event from the foundation of the world.
Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these,    saying,  Behold, the lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints. (KJV)

 

Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, (KJV)

 

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the         latter day upon the earth: (KJV)  

 

Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: (Ezk Chapter 36 & 37) (KJV)

Christ returns as judge and King of Kings
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse: and he that sat  upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge  and make war. (KJV)  

 

Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King of Kings, and Lord of Lords. (KJV)  

 

Rev 19:17 For the great day of his wrath is come: and who shall be able to stand? (KJV)

Christ’s visible return to the earth to redeem the Nation of Israel:
Zech 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives, (KJV)

 

Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (KJV)

 

Acts 1:11 This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. (KJV)

Judgment of Israel and the Nations on earth:
Matt 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: (KJV)

 

Matt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another. (KJV)

 

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds: and every eye shall see him,

The rapture of the body of Christ (the church) an unprophesied event kept secret before the foundation of the world. Christ’s invisible return in heaven to catch away the body of Christ.
I Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. (KJV)

 

I Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the         trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (KJV)

 

I Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,  with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (KJV)

 

I Thes 4:17 Then we, which are alive and remain shall be caught up    together with         them in the air. (KJV)

 

Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. (KJV)

 

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: (KJV)

After the rapture, the judgment seat of Christ in heaven.
II Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ: (KJV)

 

I Cor 3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest:

 

I Cor 3:14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. (KJV)

 

I Cor 3:15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (KJV)

Grace Age Church

Ray Watson ray37801@yahoo.com

Tony Boring tboring@graceagechurch.com

Heidi heidi@graceagechurch.com



 


Good Study

Brother Love :)

<:)))><


Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Brother Love on June 14, 2004, 05:46:41 AM
Another FAVORITE thread :)

Brother Love :)

   <:)))><


Title: Re:THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Brother Love on July 19, 2004, 06:05:50 AM
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" Titus 2:13.

We have seen from the Scriptures that the hope of man has been the resurrection. To Paul, the apostle, God revealed a mystery in relation to resurrection. He called this mystery hope the "blessed hope." Some saints will bypass death and proceed straight to resurrection. This will be the blessed experience of those who are still alive at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

"I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory" (II Corinthians 15:51-54).

"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words (I Thessalonians 4:13-18).

 

 
<:)))><


Title: THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know
Post by: Brother Love on July 26, 2004, 03:46:03 AM
MARANATHA!!!



<:)))><