ChristiansUnite Forums

    I would like to know your opinion with scripture to backup.



               Later I will give mine, I want to see what you say whithout my leading.

forrest,

Maybe its just me, but I don't understand the question..

Petro

same here,not sure exactly what the qeustion is..

  Basicly its easy, are all that claim Christ, Christian.

Of course! Why do I need the bible to back it up? I just have to turn on the TV. You want the bible, we can all quote a few verses about false teachers and the like, but why bother?

Absolutely not!  And I'll back it up with both bible and personal illustration...


Some claim Christ without personal saving knowledge of Him.  When I was 8 years old, I made a profession of faith.  We were in danger of a tornado, and I was scared.  I asked God to save me, as I was unsure of what might happen if I died.  In reality, I was asking to be saved from the tornado - not from my sins.  It was not until some years later, while working with teens in our youth group, after having been a leader in that youth group as a teen, having attended a Christian school for all but one year of my education, after having been in church when the doors were open for the bulk of my life, and after clinging to that profession for years, that I came to realize the Christ I claimed was not mine.  I accepted Him, I am glad to say, and He saved me by His grace to the glory of God the Father.  My wife was also raised in a Christian home, attended a Christian school, was at church every time the doors were open, went to a Christian university, taught in a Christian school, played piano for the church choir and congregational singing, was a Hall Leader at her university, led people to Christ - all after making a profession at the age of 5.  It wasn't until a few years ago that she realized she didn't know the Christ she claimed.  Good news is, He saved her too!

Can we claim Christ without being His?  YES!!

Hi Forrest.

Yes, "For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray."  :-\  Matthew 24:5

or

"I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock..."  Acts 20:29


So how do we know?   Probably through our own humility.  Through our own humility, then God can speak loudly enough to show us.  If we aren't humble, we're so busy absorbed in our own thoughts, we can't hear what He is saying, and can't spot the counterfeit brother.    :-\

    ???

ok, I miss read his post.  No, not everyone who uses the name jesus is a christian. Sorry for the mix up.  :-\

Yes....    :-\

     Maybe you still get what I mean.
     Are all that are saved ie"born agein" Christian, I know all Christians are saved, but are all saved Christians?

Are you asking if there are con-men who use the name of Jesus, but are not saved? As in, people who say they are Christians, but really arn't?

  This has nothing to do with false teachers or con men. I'm talking about people truly saved, read it agein.

 

       I don't know maybe its my dislexeia to me its so easy to understand I mean just what I said.

Are you asking if you have to be Christian to be saved, or if other beliefs can save you, aswell?

Again, the answer is NO. Jesus saves, and on top of that, many religon groups don't have "Salvation" as we know it.

'But are all saved Christians?'

When we are born we are  by birth the child of our father. That does not change if one is adopted he still is the biological child of  his birth father.  When one is born again he is the child of GOD. Just like in  'natural' families children are different so are Gods kids. Some of us show a so called "more" spiritual life.  Some think their sins are in secret. So we show different faces to world, HE knows our hearts.  If one is saved (born again) one is Christian even if the word 'Christian' is not is not in his vocabulary. Most often as we mature in Christ we become, what some folks would say more Christian, or more Christlike.

All who are "born again" of the spirit of God, are saved, noone can be saved unless they are "born again", it is not sufficient to be born physically, one must be "born again" spiritually.

Some receive another spirit, but can hardly be considered to be "born of God again" (note below; 2 Cor 11:4)

Many come to some knowledge of a little truth, praise God, or receive some religious instruction, answered a call given by a priest or pastor, shook that preists hand, and made some kind of public profession and perhaps did or are doing something they consider to be good works, and yet they have not been born again by the will of God, of incorruptible seed, The Word of God, these are destitute and still remain in their sin of unbelief.

How can one know who they are??

They preach another Jesus, and it is always belief in Jesus plus something else, whether it be doing works, deeds, keeping this law or that one. Let them be accursed, is what the Apostle writes at Galatians 1:8-9.

They even contradict Gods own words, and deny one who is "born again" does not possess presently in this life eternal life, denying the blood that bought them, they deceive themselves.

They teach thier own gospel, because they are not children of God, but of the serpents, this is what Paul says about the matter;

  But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
  For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
  For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.
  But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been thoroughly made manifest among you in all things.
  Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?
  I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.
  And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself.
  As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia.
  Wherefore? because I love you not? God knoweth.
  But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
  For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light
  Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.  (2 Cor 11:3-15)

Blessings,  Petro

      Let me try to explain the way I understand Christian to mean.
              Are all Christians saved? Yes
              Are all truly saved people Christian? No
                                        Why?
        ACTS 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
                   
                The why it was explained to me the reason the disciples were called Christian was that they followed Christ's way that they were Christ/ like, and to me it seems that the ones who become saved yet remain babes in Christ, and not grow, are they Christian? I do not see how they could be for they wouldn't know Christ's ways, even a disciple by Strong's a disciple is a pupil, or a student, thus one excepts Christ as their personal savior yet never grow much past that point, the way I understand they wouldn't be a Christian. An example would be like AAAAmember ex roommate and her boyfriend, http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=1538    Even though they say that they are saved " and I'm not saying there not saved" they should that they were not Christian.
          It is my believe that it isn't the world that use the name Christian to freely, but most of us have gone along with it many say that when you first saved that you are a Christian, its as if the name, or title we call our faith means little to many. To me one should earn the name that it be special.

It is clear that many who consider themselves christians, will be surprised on that day to find out Jesus never, knew them.

And it is not a case of having known them at one time, Jesus says;

"...then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.



Yet they by their own words, testify, asking;

"have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?"  (Mat 7:22)

It appears, that the deception of being a christian concerning these, is such that they will be completely deceived believing they do God a service, claiming to be His people.

It reminds me of those who murdered Jesus, they actually believed they were doing God a service by killing a person they perceived was a heretic, when He was speaking the truth to them.

The same thing the Roman Catholic church did, in using the state governmental authorities to persecute, torture and murder  Christians that did not disagree with them in the dark ages, they certainly thought they were doing God a service.

Rest assured the delusion is sent to them by God, to believe a lie, since they have rejected the truth.

It is written;

He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.  And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.   (1 Cor 3:19-20)



Blessings,
Petro

Forrest,

In light of your explanation of what you are saying, I would say "No."  I understand you to be saying that just being saved doesn't make one a Christian, and I agree.  Here's why:  Jesus said that if one was to be His disciple he must be ready to obey by doing x, y, and z.  One cannot be a disciple without being saved, yet one can obviously be saved without being a disciple.  I think the old illustration suits best.  If you were brought to trial for being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict you?  I've always seen that to be in reference to the obedient life of a disciple rather than that of a prodigal son, as opposed to salvific grace.  I can see the point, and the question is a good one.  We must be obedient, and we must not only make sure to be ready to give a reason of the hope that is within us, but be attentive not to bushel our light, so as that hope may be clearly seen.  

If one is saved, he is also equipped by God the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said:


  Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
  Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
  Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
  And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
  And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
  Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
  Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
  (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
  But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.  (Mat 6:25-33


But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. (Lk 12:22)


His Word (Mat 6:33) herein recorded by Mathew, are not spoken to those who are saved yet!  

He is speaking to those who will be saved..

Anyone who is truly saved, has at his disposal the entire benefits which come with being an heir, of the King, nothing lacking.

It just appears that way, and it really is because of unbelief, perhaps it is brought by unfaithfulness or lack of faith.

This is the sin that so easily besets Christians;  lack of faith.

How else can Christians claim to be of God, and not believe His WORD, and there seems to be more than a few.

The only other expalnation is that they deceive themselves in believing they are, christian,  when in fact they are not.

Blessings,
Petro

  John 1:12, 13; John 3:3. Very clear. VERY clear.
  "But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God which were born..."
"Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

No real disagreements here Petro my brother, but I think he's making a distinction in wording.  Jesus did put the stipulation on being His disciple.  I suppose the real question should be, is every saved person a disciple?  I agree that God equips all saved people with His Spirit, even enables them via that Spirit and His word to be the very disciples worthy of the distinction of being called "Christian."  But God expects obedience on our part.  What of those believers, like Demas, who love this present world and refuse to obey?

Amen,  The work of God, is that everyone who sees the son, and receives Him, comes top full blown faith in Him, it is not a work man does himself.

I t can only be accomplished by God the Holy Spirit.

The reason why some do not appear to be full blown believers is because some are babes, and others stunted in their growth, they simplhy stumble at the word, because they do not study it, in the light of the teaching of the Comforter.

Blessings,  Petro

      The reason I posted this poll was to get a general idea on others thinking on this, for I am getting upset, and perturbed with how most people seem to think if you go to church, or your father did, that they were born in the USA that makes them a Christian. At work I've two who go to Church, and claim to have accepted Christ as their savior yet they seem to do everything that they can to drag my Savior, and Lord Jesus Christ through the mud with them self, I know there isn't much I can do but it drags every other true Christian down with them.

We know them by their fruits brother.  Some will claim something they don't have, others will ignore something they do have to their own detriment and to the detriment of the testimony of Christ.  But then, are those who obediently follow Jesus any better?  Do we not all do harm to the testimony of Christ by our sin?  Just read some of the posts in this forum and see where each of us takes a biblical truth, and turns it into a personal issue when disagreed with!  Praise God that He forgives our sin, and that in His grace, He is glorified.

Allinall,

Well said and well taken brother.  In searching my own heart, I think I could ask it like this; Am I using God, or is he using me?

Amen brother!