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Do you think a Pastor should make more than the poorest faithful tither in his congregation?

The Bible does not state HOW MUCH but it does say the pastor should be paid:

Every church should have a board of trustees that consist of
wise, honest, Holy Ghost filled members that will attend to the
business end of the ministry (Acts 6:3).  The board should obey what is said in 1 Timothy 5:17-18 and 1 Corinthians 9:11
thru 15.  A full-time pastor should be paid according to the needs of their household. A ballpark figure could be commesurate with the average pay for a manager of a company.  

The law of the land states that a pastor can be given a housing allowance, without being taxed.  That means that the church can pay the pastor's rent; but this is based on the church's ability to do so as well as other guidelines determined by IRS (you'd have to research tax laws for your state.)


Billy Graham was paid one salary throughout his career and never raised it because he did not want to grow fond of riches
or bring reproach on the ministry and the name of God.  I am not sure but I think the ministry also paid for his home, which
he has lived in for his entire career.  I wish more preachers were like him, don't you?

Well, I don't think anyone's salary is based on another man's work; the salary is based upon what the man himself does. And a pastor is taking care of eternal souls-his work is not less worthy of pay than a secular job, but moreso.

Paul worked for his income.  'Tho he said "...the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel."  

He goes on to add, tho, "But I have made no use of any of these rights, nor am I writing this to secure any such provision..."   I Cor. 9:14-15

Under either duty you choose not to accept payment for your ministry, instead working yourself separately or, 2) under "Happiness" you gladly render service free of charge--but, that might be when you would equally gladly accept whatever was paid you.

Obviously, a parish or assembly or congregation can pay you only what they can afford.  In happiness you learn to make do with whatever you have...

    :)

I don't understand why no one else will work for free, but they expect pastors to do this. If we truly love the Lord and our own souls, why would we not love His servant enough to care for his needs? The pastor will take care of everyone's eternal needs, but no one should take care of His temporal ones? We pay the CEO for the cookies we eat. The factory janitor for the toothbrush we use after we eat the cookies. We pay middle management on the cat food. Or dog food. Or gerbil food. But a pastor who cares for our eternity is supposed to live in squalor, or care for the sheep without being cared for himself. This does not imply a heavy esteem for what he does, or even the souls of those who feel this way. Here God handed His own Son over to death for us, a brutal agonizing death, and He thought it not too much to pay! And this for sinners who have nothing, I mean nothing, to offer Him. Should we *really* begrudge His servant his daily needs after this? I would think that would make God very angry. Our pastor gets paid a solid middle class salary plus housing-enough to live quite comfortably with his family and take his family on vacation from time to time. I'm happy with that. Why is he who does the most noble work treated with the least respect and dignity? There is something deeply wrong with this. If we're not living under the same exact conditions we expect our pastor to live under, it's a double standard. 2 cents.

Oklahoma Howdy to Symphony,

I know many who spent their lives in full-time ministry and never had a salary, housing allowance, or guarantees for anything. Further, they didn't ask for offerings. They had what is called freewill offerings, and they trusted God to provide for their needs. It's not ironic that those needs were provided.

Some were too poor to give money and gave food from the garden or meat. Further, all of the ministers I'm thinking about raised medium sized families, including my own. Yes, I am preacher's kid.  ;)

In Christ.

I agree 100% with all that has been said about a pastor's salary.  Giving food, money, or clothing is a great idea.  Remember the story of Elijah and the widow woman who made
a cake for Elijah with little bit she had left and God blessed her
abundantly.  I believe God appreciates those who show appreciation for his servants... :)

What do you think, Wandering Saint?

Truly we are to appreciate those who labour for Christ Jesus.In 2 Corinthians 8:1-2 Paul testifies how the churches of Macedonia in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded inthe riches of their liberality.....v4 that we would receive the gift and the fellowship of the ministering to the saints

Exactly, and Paul mentions that it's a right [I Corinthians 9:4]. If the minister can and wants to sacrifice the right himself, he can because it's his, but I don't think there is a scriptural basis for someone else removing his right for him, unless someone knows of a scripture. God always enables his saints to provide for the workers of the field [Luke 12:27]; He doesn't will a church He doesn't provide for, and we as the congregation are to be the natural means of God's provision and grace. As it is written:
 Do not take along any gold or copper or silver in your belts; take no bag for the journey, or extra tunic, or sandals or a staff; for the worker is worth his keep. Matthew 10:9-10.

And it's good for us to give. It keeps our priorities straight. Plus it's great fun! Giving feels good. And we're only trading the temporal trinkets of this world for the eternal riches that cannot diminish! As it is written: He who receives you receives Me, and and he who receives Me receives the one who sent Me. Anyone who receives a prophet will receive a prophet's reward, and anyone who receives a righteous man because he is righteous man because he is a righteous man receives a righteous man's reward. And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is my disciple, I tell you the truth, he will certainly not lose his reward. Matthew 10:40-42. None too shabby, I daresay.

(Whitehorse has gerbils...)(http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/avatars/zanimals/zanimals31.gif)

 
I think it says somewhere the minister should receive double honor??

But that's a good point:  We have the assumption pastors should have only the bare minimum.  

Billy Graham is a multimillionaire. In 2000, not even working full time, his salary was 197,000 dollars and some change, plus 38,000 housing allowance. Plus benefits and expense account. Estimates of his actual compensation are close to 400,000 dollars a year.

Oklahoma Howdy to Symphony,

I don't have a problem with a pastor and his family living comfortably. However, I do have a big problem with a pastor living in luxury, driving $70,000 cars, wearing $1,000 suits, having numerous mansions, etc. I think this boils down to love of money, especially when this high roller keeps begging for more from people who are living on fixed incomes or those who will do without necessities for him to continue his lavish lifestyle. Just two cents worth.

In Christ.

yep, good point, bep.

thanks, Knox, I wasn't aware of that about his finances.

I guess it's best to go into the ministry with a determination to keep finances at the bottom of your priorities, b/c of the ever-always-prying eyes, anyway...

The parishners can make a minister's life miserable, I think.

But with a family in today's world, the ever-constant temptation, or curse, of "keeping up with the Jones's", and your kids bringing home the daily news of what all their friends get to do or have...

I think it would be hard for a minister to keep from getting cynical--no matter what he did, living like a pauper, or like a king, he would be snooped and criticized for it, I'm guessing.

Even Jesus referred to that, John came with the bare minimum, Jesus came and partied hardy with the riffraff tax collectors--either way they were condemned...

I like how my pastor does it.  He receives roughly 40 grandish per year, not including his housing, insurance and vacation time.  He takes his vacations, and uses his salary and his insurance.  But this is what I like most:  He lives in a nice house (bought in part by a inheritance), owns a car, truck and a van, wears nice clothes, and is wanting for nothing financially speaking.  Yet when I've been in his house, I've noticed something you don't get from the outside.  They have lovely, old furniture they've had since they were married (they just married off their middle daughter and are about to marry off the eldest.  Their son is going to college in the fall).  His car was a gift from a member of the church, the truck he bought for deer hunting years ago and has kept up and running, and the van they've had for quite some time as well.  It's neat how he has taken every gift, salary, or what have you, and been a wise, careful steward with each item.  He lent me his truck for a week when our car was in the shop.  We've eaten at his house on more than one occassion.  He's frugal, yet generous.  Buys me breakfast every now and again.  Even after paying for his daughter(s) weddings!  He's a good, if not convicting example of a wise steward, content in whatever state he's in.  Is he worth the 40 grand?  The growth of the local body of believers, not just in numbers, says he's worth much more!  :)

Hmmm, food for thought, allinall...

A wise careful steward.  Yes, that's a good testimony.  

Thanks...

Oklahoma Howdy to Allinall,

I think your pastor's salary is very reasonable. $40,000 a year would not be lavish at all, especially considering he has three or more children to raise. I tried to raise two children on about that much, and I can tell you it is difficult. It isn't poverty, but you would have to be extremely careful with every expense if you expected everyone to eat.

In Christ,
Tom

Welcome!  I find it very encouraging and edifying.

Referencing the word pastor it was found once in the Bible.

Ephesians 4:11-   And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;


Strongs gives it as 4166- pastors, a shepherd.

Are pastors preachers, envangelists? Or are they bishops, elders? What does scripture say? Why are pastors, (preachers) of today refered to as "reverend"? How did this unscriptural practice start?

Isn't God's name the one that is holy and reverend?

Psalms 111:9.  He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.

Churches sent out,(supported), preachers to preach the good news of Jesus Christ to the lost. The local congregations were overseen by bishops and administrated by deacons. A preacher being paid to tell the good news every Sunday and Wednesday evening to Christians that already know it and have come to Christ seems not scriptural. Perhaps a reason why the lost remain lost today. Christians are cloistered in their assembly buildings listening over and over to the evangelist tell of the gospel and the world never hears it.

What a waste of the preachers salary. It is misused.
It is not the preachers job alone to visit the sick, guide the misguided in the congregation, feed the hungry, cloth the naked, quench the thirsties thirst, show the love of God through Jesus. These are things all Christians are to be working and the preacher should be out preaching Jesus to the lost of the world!

Oklahoma Howdy to Ollie,

There would be pros and cons in nearly all approaches to being a Pastor. I understand what you are saying above, but let me give you another thought.

Maybe the pastor does a mix of preaching tasks while they are young, strong, and healthy. That would include an outreach type of ministry in whatever location that became available. Maybe the ministry in the church is designed to build up believers in the Word and hopefully encourage others into the ministry and mission fields. Maybe the ministry at the church is also mixed (i.e. services specifically designed for the lost and babes, services designed for the growing believers, and services designed for deeper study by the mature believers), Health will give out sooner or later for the pastor trying to do all of these things at once. However, maybe some in the core congregation were built up, filled the voids, increased the ministry, and went on to do the same thing.

In Christ,
Tom
 

My thoughts.
I run an Apt./rooming house. 32 apts. Now some people in this position get only a free place to live. But my boss wants me to be here full time, so he pays me a good salary, so I won't have to get an outside job.
I see it the same with local churches. If a church has set itself up in such a way, that they want and need their pastor to be fulltime, then giving him a salary is sensible. (but should not be taken advantage of by the pastor).
The problem is that there are not really all that many 'local churches'. Most are a part of some bigger religious org., and the local ones like this all have to give to the religion as a whole. (sorry, I detest organized religion).
If we did as they did in Acts, and gathered in small groups in a local church, this problem would not exist. As small local churches have begun to be 'popular' again, we see the large religions doing whatever it takes to keep people; including the ordaining of homosexuals.
George Mueller was told by God to open an orphanage to take care of the many orphans in England at the turn of the century. He said, "O.K. God, but you will have to provide all the money; I will never ask for any money." Every time George had a need, he went to God in prayer. And God saw that he got all he needed. Sometimes the exact amount.
If church was as it should be, it would be like this. God would provide for all the needs of that local church. But alas, most churches are not run today as Tom's Dad ran his. Thay are ran almost like a business, with the pastors taught in Bible school just how to run it.
The bottom line is that we cannot try to determine how to run a church scripturally today, since most churches are not willing to go by the scriptures as a guide for their church.
It is sad, but it is reallity.
As for the few Godly churches out there, I think each body will be able to determine this for themselves, and will have no problems. The body itself will decide what works best for them, and will be happy with it. And so will our Lord.
Yours in Christ. Roy

Oklahoma Howdy to Royo,

It sounds like you have an interesting job. I'm sure there are times when you have your hands full in trying to keep over 30 families happy.

I share many of your thoughts about big, organized religion. I have been spoiled all of my life in attending a small church with a loving congregation. Everyone truly knows everyone else and there is true fellowship. There is a substantial core of the congregation who have attended for over 40 years. We do help to support numerous missions, but we only worry about the bills of our own church. God has always provided, and the excess goes to missions.

In Christ,
Tom

I think a pastor should make whatever the congregation wants to give him. Jesus said, "Do not worry what you will eat or what you will wear..." GOD PROVIDES for us. The money we get in life is a GIFT. None of us is entitled to money. When we get it, it's still not ours.  When God means for us to prosper, He means for us to reap the fruits of the spirit. Our happiness then comes from peace, joy, patience, love, etc. and less from greed. It's what the pastor DOES with his money that is his the degree that he is reaping the fruits of the spirit and not attached to material possessions.  

To be honest with you Wandering, I believe a good Pastor should certainly be paid a good salary.  Just remember his job.  His isn't a 9 to 5p.m. one.
These good men guide, comfort, visit the sick, pray with family and friends, preach, prepare sermons, the list goes on.  He is a father figure to his congregation.  His advice is freely given and he is there any time anyone needs him.
He is dedicated to his God, and his job as well as his wife and family.
I often just pop an anonymous $100 note in an unmarked envelope and place it in our minister's letterbox at night time.
You'e no idea how many times his wife has said "We were running so short of money and somebody put $100 in our letterbox..we were overjoyed."  And that, it how I tithe!  But, it's a little secret!!

Love...Tamara.