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"Satan cometh immediately and taketh away the word."
 Mark 4:15

"Beware of the Scribes"
LUKE 20:46a


NASB, NIV et al.                                         KJV

the Lord                Ex. 6:3               et al. JEHOVAH

Christ                 2 Cor. 5:18            Jesus Christ

the Spirit            Acts 8:18            et al. the Holy Ghost

divine being        Acts 17:29         The Godhead

OMIT                   Rev. 1:11        I am Alpha and Omega

One, man         John 4:42        et al. God, Christ, the Son

Only One            Matt. 19:17            et al. God

The Mighty One   Josh. 22:22         The LORD God

the Lord             I Cor. 16:22        Lord Jesus Christ

a son of the gods   Dan. 3:25         the Son of God

Son of Man             John 9:35           Son of God

a God                    Acts 14:15          et al. God

OMIT                     I John 5:7         For there are three that
                                                    bear record in heaven,
                                                   the Father, the Word, and
                                                  the Holy Ghost: and these
                                                    three are one.


fruit of the light         Eph. 5:9         fruit of the Spirit

and the nations shall
walk by its light        Rev. 21:24    and the nations of them
                                                   which are saved shall
                                                  walk in the light of it.
 
king of nations/ages    Rev. 15:3           King of saints

end of the age             Matt. 28:20          end of the world

I can do everything
through him who gives
 me strength                 Phil. 4:13       I can do all things
                                                      through Christ which
                                                          strengtheneth me.

He who was revealed
 in the flesh.                 I Tim. 3:16     God was manifest in x                                                            the flesh

OMIT                           Acts 4:24              Thou art God
OMIT

(    Jesus  omited        )
(NASB 73, NV 38 times)

him                              Mark 2:15               Jesus

His kingdom                 Matt. 6:33       The kingdom of God

He                                 Rev. 21:4                 God

He                                 Gal. 1:15                  God

He                                 Matt. 22:32              God

his spirit                       I Cor 14:2            the spirit

His name                     Acts 22:16      the name of the Lord

His name and his
 father's name in         Rev. 14:1
their foreheads        (see Rev. 14:11)    his father's name
                                                        in their foreheads
   
worship
 (see Rev. 9, 13, 14, 16)   Phil. 3:3          worship God
 

Passages On the Devil & Idol Worship+

morning star                  Isaiah 14:12-15                Lucifer

(Image worshippers are)
very religious                        Acts 17:22          (Image worshippers
                                                              are too superstitious)

visions he has seen           Col. 2:18         things which he hath not seen

Salvation by works or faith in Jesus Christ?

Children, how hard it is to    Mark      Children, how hard it is for
 enter the kingdom of God   10:24   them that trust in riches to
                                                   enter into the kingdom of God

By standing firm you      Luke       In your patience
will save yourself           21:19      possess ye your souls

who believes               Mark 9:42         believe in me

obey                           John 3:36                  believe

faithfulness                Gal. 5:22 et al.              faith

OMIT                         Rom. 11:6        But if it be of works                                                                                                            then it is no more grace:

the gospel                 Rom. 1:16          the gospel of Christ

OMIT                        Acts 8:37          I believe that Jesus
                                                     Christ is the Son of God

 In whom we have        Col.            In whom we have
 redemption                 1:14         redemption through
                                                           his blood.

he who believes has      John 6:47     He that believeth
everlasting life                                 on me hath everlasting life

calling on His name       Acts 22:16      calling on the name of the Lord

                                                       And Philip said if thou believest
OMIT                           Acts 8:37   with all thine heart, thou
                                                   mayest.And he answered
                                                   and said, I believe that
                                                  Jesus Christ is the Son of God

Neither is circumcision   Gal. 6:15   For in Christ Jesus neither
anything                                      circumcision availeth any thing

I bow my knees            Eph. 3:14   I bow my knees unto the
before the Father.                          Father of our Lord Jesus Christ

an heir of God            Gal. 4:7     an heir of God through Christ

God who created all things    Eph. 3:9    God who created all things by Jesus Christ

the Father               Col. 1:2             our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ


every spirit that does not     1 John 4:3   And every spirit that confesseth
 acknowledge Jesus is not                 not that Jesus Christ is
 from God                                   come in the flesh is not of God

Notes on the Change of what could be called Christian Orthodoxy

Then come, follow me    Mark 10:21    and come, take up the
                                                         cross and follow me.

men                             2 Pet. 1:21           holy men

heart                            1 Pet. 1:22          pure heart  

adequate                      2 Tim. 3:17             perfect

prosperity                     Prov. 21.21          righteousness

prosper                          Jer. 29:11               peace

godliness actually is          1 Tim              godliness with
 a means of great gain        6:6    contentment is a great gain

boast                               Heb. 3:6                rejoicing

be proud                        2 Cor. 1:14             your rejoicing

proud confidence             2 Cor 1:12                rejoicing

furthering the administration     1 Tim. 1:4      godly edifying

Thou has made him a little     Ps. 8:5    thou hast made him
 lower than God                                  a little lower than the
                                                                         angels

I retract…                            Job 42:6         I abhore myself

our humble state              Phil. 3:21              our vile bodies

man shall not live            Luke 4:4      That man shall not live
on bread alone                                        by bread alone but,
                                                           by every word of God

Question: What exactly are you sharing? For or against the King James Translation? Just curious    ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Only to see and compare with others; and to hear their interpretations & learn from the discussion which of the Christianities spoke of in the translations of the inspired text  is most acurrate so that we may learn something from both.

Your brother in the Grace & Love of Christ,
David Winn

Otay. Kinda had me confused there...I'm all for charts, but I like a bit of text to go with my pictures :-D

Coram Deo,
Joshua

You look on the left and you see the examples of the modern rendering, in the middle you have the scripture being discussed of the left and right; on the right you have the more traditionl translation. As you can see alot in alot of respects the things mentioned are quite diffrent, and so you can also see where the discussion might arise.

digitgen,

i think i see what you are doing. if you are trying to establidh how sneaky the devil can be by diluting the word and the name of jesus....well done! afterall, its the little foxes that spoil the vine.

That is definitely a good opinion and I am quite certain there will be many more. If he can change our translation subtily the problem would difficult to notice and it says many times he will try to do this.

Greetings.
I was wondering if any of you have had the opportunity to look at Eugene Peterson's "The Message." If so, what do you think about it ? :P personally.

TM
Psalms 8:5-Yet we've so narrowly missed being gods,
    bright with Eden's dawn light
KJV
Psalms 8:5-For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour

An obvious paraphase first second to me word for word translation is important, because I have doubt on if a translation can be inspired. And even if the translator trys his best to be indiffrent to his own opinions he is a man and will make mistakes a paraphase has all the more human involvement and so all the more chance for error.
TM
Romans 11:6-They're holding on, not because of what they think they're going to get out of it, but because they're convinced of God's grace and purpose in choosing them. If they were only thinking of their own immediate self-interest, they would have left long ago.
KJV
Romans 11:6-And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

You may ask then why I would use the KJV it has demonstrated its accuracy for 400 yrs. and the most resourses are avalible  for it because of its extrended use time.

one last example

Romans 4:1-5  1So how do we fit what we know of Abraham, our first father in the faith, into this new way of looking at things? 2If Abraham, by what he did for God, got God to approve him, he could certainly have taken credit for it. But the story we're given is a God-story, not an Abraham-story. 3What we read in Scripture is, "Abraham entered into what God was doing for him, and that was the turning point. He trusted God to set him right instead of trying to be right on his own."
    4If you're a hard worker and do a good job, you deserve your pay; we don't call your wages a gift. 5But if you see that the job is too big for you, that it's something only God can do, and you trust him to do it--you could never do it for yourself no matter how hard and long you worked--well, that trusting-him--to-do-it is what gets you set right with God, by God. Sheer gift.

Romans 4:1-5; What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness

You can see some very obvious alterations, if you have looked with an open mind. and alteration to the inspired original is <if one is being very careful> to be assumed as error. This psalms thing and romans 4 and these are the ONLY verses I even bothered to look up and the changes to the 'message' (lol little pun there) are quite obvious.
In his Love & Grace,
David Winn

The only thing "The Message" is worth is good reading. It's a quite entertaining piece of literature. If i remember right, the guy even says that it's not meant to replace the Holy Scriptures, but to put it into every day language and to convey basic ideas, and is no way meant to be a supplement to the real thing. Just thought i'd add that.

Coram Deo,
Joshua

Romans 4:1-5 1Abraham was, humanly speaking, the founder of our Jewish nation. What were his experiences concerning this question of being saved by faith? 2Was it because of his good deeds that God accepted him? If so, he would have had something to boast about. But from God's point of view Abraham had no basis at all for pride. 3For the Scriptures tell us, "Abraham believed God, so God declared him to be righteous
New Living Translation <not a translation really but..>
seems to have retain far more of the original text and original wording and still has an entertaining <if that must be important no offence I'd say its Gods word people died so that we may hold it that is more than good enough for me> quality to it. And if you want Godly and entertaining read Pilgrims Progress or CS Lewis but I believe the Message takes it a bit too far, and that i have demonstrated this well. I also think a good study in Ecclesiates will reveal much more on this subject

I plan on reading Pilgrim's Progress and I do read quite a bit of C.S Lewis. Plus i'm about to embark on an in depth study of "Institutes" by Calvin. I just got "Desiring God" by John Piper, i'm sure you are familiar with him if you are familiar with Lewis or Bunyan. Maybe you're familiar with J.I. Packer, Tom Nettles, and Baxter. Most of these are great writers :). I'm not as inclined to state that "The message" takes it too far...as long as it's not used in the place of the Holy Scriptures, I don't see a problem with just reading it just for entertainment. As one who studies literature, I use the word entertainment in a loose sense as to describe any book that intrigues me. Just a sponge of knowledge, granted useless or otherwise. That's all that is meant. The NLT is an excellent source and a great translation that still holds to the original text and wording.  I see that point and can't argue against it. I've grown to study by the English Standard Version of the Holy Scriptures. I find it greatly easier to study with this version than my KJV, however I still hold dear to my King James. I'm slowly stepping into more and more of the early church's writings. those of wycliffe, darby, Edwards, Bunyan, Calvin, Augustine, Luther,and can't forget Spurgeon and Moody: as well as some 20th century such as Sproul, Piper, Packer, Lewis, to name a few. :) All great writers and deep theologians. So my entertainment list is deeply vast :) Just a few thoughts.

Coram Deo,
Joshua

I am interested in your varied opinions. Thank you. I'm not sure where everyone who is posting here is from, but I am in Michigan, U.S.A. I was recently in a local "Christian" book store at a mall. The message is not found in their literature section. It is nestled right there among the other "versions of scripture." It is not so much a personal issue, as to whether someone who studies varied writers and usess different translations and paraphrases uses this book for something (entertainment, or whatever). Here in America, things are mass marketed and the church is sleepily purchasing any newest piece of rubbish being proffered.  We have a very real discernment defecit. Most firm church-goers are "pastor driven." If the pastor says so, it must be so. This is a very real down side of the single pastor system which I was posting about earlier. My pastor thinks for me, so I just support the church and him and everything is great.
  Another interesting bit of business is the "Purpose Driven" everything. That pastor has wrested scripture after scripture to stretch them into his own desired purposes. Sloppy exegesis of scripture is becoming more and more accepted as the church rolls over and says, in effect, "Oh, don't get all worked up about it! People are getting a blessing, and, after all, that's all that matters." I know that many people think they're getting a blessing from it. Perhaps they are. God uses everything for His purposes. I get a blessing from the web page where I find news and weather reports, but I don't call it something God designed and misquote scripture to support my belief of this.
In Christ Forever,
Brian

I agree with ya buddy. I'm from South Carolina, and down here, in the "christian" book stores i've seen a few who have it listed in the literature section. You and I are in agreement on what you've said. There is a sloppy exegesis of Scripture around here and every else. Hence, why I vowed not to become like the mediocre parishioner who just takes what's being said and doesn't really have their own systematic theology.

Joshua

"the church is sleepily purchasing any newest piece of rubbish being proffered."
Preach it Brother!

"Sloppy exegesis of scripture is becoming more and more accepted as the church rolls over and says, in effect, "Oh, don't get all worked up about it!"
Amen Brother!

I can agree and as well, entertainment whatever, and what was giving me I problem was I  everywhere I have seen it is in the translation section, as well as on the web sites where I got the verses from translation as well and what of someone checking out a bible for the first time turned off of church and they pick up the thing easiest to read and what is easiest for I man of the world, words of the world. the words of man far from inspired We all agree good stuff.

Hello DigitGen,

Some translations of the Bible are rubbish, and the JW and Mormon Bible would fit into that category. Some are very poor, and The Message would fit into that category.

There are strengths and weaknesses of every Bible translation, and that would include the KJV, in any of the more than 50 revisions or versions of the KJV. Overall, the KJV is an excellent translation of the Holy Bible, but we still use Greek and Hebrew comparisons because of the errors and shortcomings of the KJV and any other translation of the Holy Bible. Overall, the NASB and the NIV are excellent translations of the Holy Bible, buth they also have their strengths and weaknesses. Again, Greek and Hebrew languages are used for comparisons, specifically for anyone wishing to do serious Bible study.

In some ways, the KJV, in any of its more than 50 revisions and versions, is still superior to some of the newer translations that are also in the excellent category. However, the NASB, NIV, and other excellent translations are superior to the KJV in many ways. Many more ancient manuscripts are available today than when the KJV was translated. It's also true that modern language tools are much better and faster. The proof of this can be easily seen in Bible study tools for language, reference, and comparison that the average person can now afford to own.

I won't become involved in a debate about which of the excellent translations of the Holy Bible is considered to be the best. I certainly won't become involved in any cult-like discussion that the KJV is the only translation that can be considered to be the Holy Bible. That's a ridiculous and childish argument that simply causes division in the BODY OF CHRIST.

I could do the same thing with the KJV that you attempted to do with the NASB and the NIV, but I won't. I'll simply state that the KJV is not the standard for a correct translation of the Holy Bible. Ancient Greek and Hebrew texts are the standard, so the KJV is not the standard for anything. I'll simply say that the KJV is an excellent translation and there are many others, the NASB and NIV being just two examples.

I will NOT debate this matter with you, but I WILL BLUNTLY STATE BIBLE BASHING IS NOT PERMITTED HERE. I would hope that should be enough said and you understand. "KJV-Onlyists" have done nothing but create doubt in the KJV, division in the BODY OF CHRIST, and confusion for the lost looking on. BLUNTLY, the "KJV-Onlyists" have done nothing but harm.

That's the purpose and direction of this thread, SO THIS THREAD IS LOCKED. Any new thread attempting the same thing will be deleted.[/color]

Love In Christ,
Tom

Isaiah 55:10-11 NASB  "For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, And do not return there without watering the earth And making it bear and sprout, And furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater; So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.