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Title: whence cometh evil? Post by: underground on August 04, 2003, 03:39:50 PM Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? -- Epicurus Title: Re:whence cometh evil? Post by: Ralph on August 04, 2003, 05:01:28 PM He "works all things after the counsel of His own will."
Therefore all things, whether you deem them evil or not, are according to "the counsel of His own will." CONSIDER! "Shall there be evil in the city and the LORD has not done it?" "I wound and I heal, I kill and make alive." The crucifixtion of Christ was the greatest evil the sons of men have ever perpretated, yet it was according to His purpose. Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the earth. That evil men were active in it does not mean God did not have a holy purpose in it. As Joseph said to his brothers in Egypt years after they had thrown him in a pit and sold him into slavery, "You meant it for evil, but God meant it for good to save many people alive." "WHO IS HE WHO SAYS AND IT COMES TO PASS WHEN THE LORD COMMANDETH IT NOT?" Therefore, He is willing and He is able. What you see, you see as a man sees, but God is inscrutable. In everything, He is working His will. Whether you understand His purpose or not does not alter either His providences or his power to fulfill all His counsel. He is not restrained by your judgment, nor is He accountable to the understanding of fallen creatures. Title: Re:whence cometh evil? Post by: asaph on August 04, 2003, 08:45:43 PM Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jam 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren. Jam 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. Jam 4:1 From where come wars and disputes among you? Is it not from here, from your lusts, which war in your members? Jam 4:2 You lust and you do not have. You murder and are jealous and you cannot obtain. You fight and make war. You do not have because you do not ask. Jam 4:3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend it in gratifying your lusts. Jam 4:4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world is constituted an enemy of God. If I were a judge and sentenced you to prison, you could say I was evil because I sent evil your way. But, I am only evil from your perspective, not mine. You deserved the evil I sent you, I did not arbitrarily send it your way. This is the sense in which God attributes evil as coming from Himself. But the source of evil that is opposed to God is Satan. asaph Title: Re:whence cometh evil? Post by: asaph on August 04, 2003, 08:57:15 PM Pretty Little Lies
Don't bruise my head Leave me for dead My work is never done I crawled through grass 'Cross broken glass To bring you kingdom come I'll swing you high up In your favorite tree Attach my good name to your history And mix my blood into our chemistry Don't be shy, tell me Chorus: Why would I lie to you? (say pretty little lies to you?) Why would I lie to you? Baby I'd die for you (pretty little lies aren't true) Would I ever? No, I'd never Speak pretty little lies to you I've heard you've got A tender spot For sweet talk And tattooed men If I'm too much Cold to the touch There's fire beneath my skin I'm only here to make you Wealthy and wise Remove the scales from your sweet Innocent eyes And then you'll be in for my big surprise Now don't be shy, tell me why Chorus Why would I lie to you? (say pretty little lies to you?) Why would I lie to you? Baby I'd die for you (pretty little lies aren't true) Would I ever? No, I'd never Speak pretty little lies to you Bridge: Don't mind the forked tongue If I rattle you, I'm sorry Though I'm not yet number one For the time being that's Not a worry Don't bruise my head Leave me for dead My work is never done I crawled through grass 'Cross broken glass To bring you kingdom comeMusic by Daniel Amos, Words T.S. Taylor ©2001 Zoom Daddy/BMI Title: Re:whence cometh evil? Post by: asaph on August 04, 2003, 09:33:03 PM 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
A Little Grace from the album "Mr Buechner's Dream" (A Song of Job) Music by Daniel Amos, Words by T.S. Taylor ©2001 Zoom Daddy/BMI I'm goin' down I'm goin' down You turned another table on me I never saw that curve ball coming And the world went fatal on me Cold hearted, dark, and cunning And I'm on my face now Need a little grace now You dealt all the cards in my hand And you knew that I'd be folding Threw a big wet towel on my plan And put a bullet in the gun i'm holding And I'm on my face now Need a little grace now Yeah I'm on my face now Need a little grace now You left a poison thorn in my side And then you dangled a sword above me Let the devils and the angels collide So i would know you loved me And I'm on my face now (now, now) Just a basket case now Got no hiding place now There's no breathing space now And i'm on my face now Need a little grace now Need a little grace now Title: Re:whence cometh evil? Post by: Psalm 119 on August 04, 2003, 10:36:00 PM Asaph,
Who created Satan? Who created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Psalm 119 Title: Re:whence cometh evil? Post by: Symphony on August 05, 2003, 09:25:30 AM "I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe, I am the Lord, who do all these things." Isaiah 45:7 "Now the serpent was more subtle than any other wild creature that the Lord God had made." Genesis 3:1 Title: Re:whence cometh evil? Post by: Psalm 119 on August 05, 2003, 09:56:40 AM It is a mystery beyond my comprehension that God who is pure and holy would create satan who He knew in advance would rebel. He created man in His own image; knowing that man would rebel against Him. He delivered the children of Israel from Egypt knowing in advance (foreknowledge) that they would rebel in the wilderness.
Why did He even bother, knowing all this from the foundation of the world? Because He is God and He does whatsoever He pleases. Psalm 119 Title: Re:whence cometh evil? Post by: asaph on August 05, 2003, 10:05:42 AM Psalm 119,
True, but evil did not originate "IN" God. To say God has evil in Him is similar to Pantheism. It is to lower God to the level of "the Force" or black and white magic. What sayest thou? asaph Title: Re:whence cometh evil? Post by: Psalm 119 on August 05, 2003, 12:50:52 PM Asaph,
Please don't misunderstand my above statements. Like I said God is pure and holy....there is absolutely no sin in Him whatsoever. And I understand the concept of pantheism...that God is in all things....the trees, the birds, all living creatures and creation itself. I absolutely reject such a thing. What I am saying... is that God is absolutely Sovereign; He does as He pleases. He did create Satan, He did create all the fallen angels. They did not create themselves. God has allowed evil to coexist with righteousness. But one day all evil will be thrown into hell along with those who practice it. One day righteousness will be the order of the day, for those who have obeyed the Gospel. It's still a mystery to me, that and all knowing God who knew that His creation would rebel at His Word, even took the time to mess with us. I stand in awe ,that He chose me before the foundations of the world. His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts. Psalm 119 Title: Re:whence cometh evil? Post by: Ralph on August 05, 2003, 01:53:49 PM God created all things for His own glory, and in all things He will have glory either by executing judgment upon the wicked, or by blessing His people. This includes Satan and the fall of Adam. Concerning Satan, formerly an archangel: he and those angels who mutinied against God were not elect, and so fell. The elect angels know that their security is in Him and so praise Him continually for they see what became of those angels who were not elect. Satan has no just claim against God because he and cohorts, having an accountability before God failed in it. His position of accountibility could have issued
in a deserved position above those angels who were elect, and that is just what he had, being the archangel--but he transgressed. CONCERNING ADAM--would you have it that God had made man without personal accountibility and thus unable to praise God with a willing mind? Did God not have the right to create man in His own image with a moral accountibility? Should the fact that man would fall keep God from creating the people of His praise who would share eternity with Him? Don't think that way, for His enemies will never prosper in their devices against Him. creating |