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WHAT IS THE TITHE AND OFFERING FOR? I HAVE THIS BELIEF THAT THE CHURCH SHOULD TAKE TITHE AND OFFERING TO TAKE CARE OF CHURCH BUISNESS. I THINK THE CHURCH LEADERS SHOULD USE THIS MONEY FOR PAYMENTS ON THE CHURCH, GAS AND ELECTRIC, MAINTAINENCE, ETC....WHERE DID WWE GET ALL THIS NON-SENSE ABOUT PASTORS PARTNERS, DEACON BOARD, SPEAKERS OFFERING, ETC. IS THIS PURE?

Welcome to the boards GKB!  And welcome to the wonderful world we call Church Polity!  ;D

Seriously speaking, and in complete understanding that different denominational schools of thought provide different opinions than that to which I am about to propose, tithe is a dead issue.  That was an Old Testament viewpoint that has been replaced by the New Testament principle of grace giving from a cheerful heart.  It's interesting; the O.T. Israelite gave roughly 25% of his income, 10% of which was the tithe portion.  The N.T. Christian gave as needed, sometimes selling everything to meet a brothers need.  I personally believe that we are to give as we have been blessed rather than give in order to be blessed.  I also think that the monies spent to maintain a building, while necessary, could be better spent meeting the needs of the body.  But that's another discussion.   :)

All of the other instances of which you speak are programs meant, in their own way, to meet the very needs of which I speak.  I think we just get too caught up in the programs at the expense of the people.  As for the purity of these gifts...I'd say they're as pure as the hearts from which they are given.  Speakers are often supported for their ministries, much like Paul, Peter and the like were.  Deacon Boards gifts are often meant to go to meet the needs of those in the body.  This is probably, in my opinion, the most biblical application of those funds.

Well, I hope this helps.  Welcome again!  I look forward to reading more from you my friend.   :)

I AM REALLY EXCITED ABOUT SOME OF WHAT I'VE BEEN READING FROM YOU ALL....I THINK THAT ITS WONDERFUL THAT YOU FEEL THAT WAY. I AM SOOOOOO HAPPY TO KNOW THAT THEY'RE ARE PEOPLE ON A QUEST FOR THE TRUE THINGS OF GOD. I WAS TRUELY BEGINING TO FEEL LIKE PEOPLE OF GOD WERE A RARE THING...THANKS FOR THE RESPONSE. IF I EVER HAD TO PASTOR A CHURCH, I WOULD TAKE TITHE AND OFFERING BUT FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD AS NEEDED.

I beleive we should give with a merrry heart.   Many churches here in Guatemala are extrenely poor and soemtimes there is never enough in the collection plate for the pastor to live, so as a missionary I raise fuinds for him.   He is doing a wonderful job and the church is growing, but we do need buildings and at the moment we are constructing a larger one.  We do not use the tithing for this.  All tithing goes to the pastor.

mills, why are all tithes given to the pastor? i understand that the pastor has to live, but should the tithe be given to the pastor as a rule? should the tithe be limited to pastor?

This isn't Mills, but thought I'd add in my 2 pennies (pardon the pun). ;)

Here's how I understand tithing.  We are supposed to tithe to our local church first.  We're tithing to God, not the pastor.  If we know the pastor is misusing the tithe, then I think we have a responsibility to stop tithing to that church.  In fact, if there's any question at all, I would certainly seek another church.  If you tithe in good faith and the pastor misuses it, then he's ultimately responsible to God, not you.  From what I understand, the pastor is supposed to take a set salary, not the whole tithe.  Now, I think what Mills said was that the church is really poor.  The people can't give much, and what they do give isn't enough to support the pastor.  In this case, the pastor needs to get an outside job...........at least part time anyway.  The pastor needs to take some responsibility here, too.  Well, these are just my thoughts.

Grace and peace,
cris

well said chris. either a job, or move in faith (not judging, just suggesting), let faith carry us to every blessing that we need. i do understand that the church is poor, and that does make a difference, and the pastor may need to be available to full time ministry....but i just believe that god will take care of his own and provide seed for the sower.

Well GKB I understand what you are saying but you perhaps need to come here and see the extreme poverty these people live in.   The pastor geta  job?   In this country?   The jobless here are about 80% of the people and the maximum wage is about $20 a month.  Hence, as i said as a misisonary I raise funds for him so that he can give himself full time to pastoring the people here.  Now in the Western World I might agree with you that a pastor should either work half day or have a fixed wage.   Maybe you would like to bring a group out here sometime and see for yourself what these people are up against. Murder, rape, drugs and a corrupt Government who just do not care.     This pastor is certainly worthy of his wages.   We would love to see you come some day, and this offer is open to any group.  Contact me on jeffmills@pobox.com any time.   Many blessings and I love these discussions.

mills, please do not be affended, its just that we "church people" have corrupted gods buisness so much that its hard to see whats what. i do believe there are poor conditions and for that reason i understand what you are doing. as long as it funds gods buisness and not mans, the tithe is fine for it. how do you collect monies if the maxium wage is 20 dollars a month? could the same faith that you do that with be used to supply every need?

p.s. i really do applaud the pastor and your work.

Hey GKB I am not at all offended and I apologize if it seemed that way.  Yes, God does provide for us as we walk in faith.  We are actually constructing a new building which has taken 2 years so far.  It would normally have been completed in 6 months but the Lord is teaching us faith.    How does the pastor live when the wages are so small?  Faith!  God keeps on providing in miraculous ways, the same as he keeps healing people in this church.  They can't afford doctors!  We just lay hands believe and they walk away healed.    We claim Psalm 23 The Lord is my Shepherd I shall not need.   I do not believe that tithing is new testament teaching by the way, because we ourselves are the Royal Priests!!   But we give generously out of love to the one who feeds the flock.

beatifully said mills,

i agree, it is such an honor to be in connection with real saints of the most high god, i began to believe that you all were extinct. very true about the tithe and the new testiment....so why do you think so many churches preach tithe... even that you can not be blessed unless you tithe?

Actually my name is Jeff but don't know how to change it on this programme!    Bad teaching and people  going by experience rather than the Word.   I have seen some rich "TV Christians" about but it is not my job to condemn them - the Lord will do that.  I just pray they will change their ways.  Meanwhile let's just get on with sharing the Gospel and giving funds where they can make a difference.    By the way.  My site is www.finalharvestministries.com
Be blessed and may the Lord open your spiritual eyes to so much more treasure!   Jeff
 

i receive your rebuke mills,

we ought to get on with spreading the gospel, so thats what i'll do....bless you mills, i will go check out your site.

No rebuke GKB my friend!   Be blessed this Advent!

why do we have such a hard time adopting the new testiment way of faith as it pertains to giving? why not just preach the word in season and out of season, and just have faith that  god will provide the increase? is it because we really do not have the kind of faith that was once delivered to the saints? is it because we really do not believe in the method that god chose, so to have a back up plan we call on the tithe method so that we can at least preach a minimum of ten percent....just in case we teach them to give from their hearts and it doesn't work out! how do we believe god if we don't trust him?

I believe Chriatians,should keep with what God,say's about tithes and offering.Not what the world say.s.Malachi 3:10-Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,That there may be food in My house,And try me now in this,Says the Lord of hosts.Give your tithes in God's house,He will provide for your house.I used giveto not give my tithes and offerings like I should have,I wasn't being blessed like I should have been.Because I was robbing God.When I started giving my tithes and offerings,right.God,pours out a blessings on me,all kinds of blessings.Whatever billI owe,I leave God's money in the mac until Sunday and I give it to Him.Remember God knows our heart.
God Bless :)

Dear PRAISE1  I hear what you are saying, but you need to scroll up and see that the Lord looks at the heart.  There is NOTHING in the NT that says we should tithe to the church.   As a matter of fact WE are now the Royal Priests and so it is ours!!!   But God sees your heart, and also mine.  I give to the church because I want to give but I am not sinning if I do not.   Give with a merry heart says the Word!  God will bless you

dear praise1,

i tithe and offer faithfully off of every dollar i get, however, maybe the house requires more than my tithe...sometimes tithing is only doing the bear minimum...not to mention i'm afraid that some pastors brought into that system to lock down some funds. if god called you to more than your tithe, should i give it? or do i say, this is what is required, so this is what i give....aren't you still holding back from god in that regaurd? its really time for the saints of god to start studying for ourselves, otherwise whoever can sell us whatever, and have us buy it.

i think to often we turn our preachers into our celebraties, because we don't have a relationship with god for ourselves and so we have to wait until sunday morning to hear what god is saying, when the preacher at this point should just be confirming, not dictating. i love the fact that i can get a word from the lord, and i'm not limited to another mans ministry....yes, yes i know the body is many members helping each other, so pastors and preachers are vital, true, but when are we going to take our position in the body to the point where the pastors needs your ministry just as much as you need his?

There was some interesting input in this thread.

I do have a question, however:

Where does the word of God speak of giving a tithe to a local church like what we have today?

The OT tithe had nothing to do with money. It was food stored away for the Levites, priests, orphans, widows and strangers. So, when people talk about their tithe, what are they basing it upon? Jesus wasn't require to tithe because He had no lands nor herds from which to tithe, so where is all this stuff coming from?

In the NT, we see the collection going to, again, meet the needs of fellow believers, not for real estate and buildings.

So I guess this leads to an additional question:

Where in the Bible was there ever a change made to God's priorities in our giving, shifting away from meeting needs to supporting real estate and buildings?

I would appreciate any input that anyone could provide.

Thanks

Blademan

Hi blademan,

Welcome to Christians Unite.



I have a question for you in return. Where in the Bible does it say that we are not to give tithes to a local church?

There is a movement going on today that is teaching against tithing to the church. While I agree that there is no commandment for us to do so, and seeing their is no commandment it is evident that their is no set amount.

Some people use the verses of the OT to say that we are not to give money. It does not say that we are not to give money although in the OT it was said to give of their increase (profits) which then was primarily food items.

It is also said by some that there is no proof even in the OT nor the NT that tithing was to go to a building. While I agree with this somewhat I would ask these people where they think that the House of Worships came from? After all there is ample evidence that there were many such buildings.

There are verses in the NT that does indicate that we are to give (tithe):


Luk 11:42  But woe to you, Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and every herb, and pass over judgment and the love of God. You ought to have done these, and not to leave the other undone.

1Co 16:2  On the first of the sabbaths let each of you put by himself, storing up what ever he is prospered, so that there may be no collections when I come.

There are quite a few instances in 2Co chapters 8 and 9 that give examples and exhortations concerning the importance of believers giving financially to God’s work.



As for how much a person should give, we are told:

Col 3:23  And whatever you do, do it heartily, as to the Lord and not to men;
Col 3:24  knowing that from the Lord you shall receive the reward of the inheritance. For you serve the Lord Christ.



There are many other threads here that also pertain to tithing in the Old and New Testaments, the difference between them and what we should do in regards to tithing now.

blademan,
 I believe tithing started with Jacob in Genesis 28
May i qoute Genesis 28:20-22
 
  20: And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,
   21: So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God:
   22: And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
  this is a vow made by Jacod (Israel) so God is just requiring what is the vow made by israel.  so whatever your vow to give to the lord you should fulfill it.

In liviticus 27:30-32
30: And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
   31: And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
   32: And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.


Malachi 3:7-10
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
   7: Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
   8: Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
   9: Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
   10: Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.


But when you give it should come from the heart. And if you vowed a vow (you said that you give something to God) fulfill it coz' God will require you to fullfill your vow.

Hello Blademan,

I see this is your first post, so WELCOME!


As you can see, there are varying opinions about tithing. I would simply say from a New Testament perspective that giving should be cheerful and from the heart. I would say that there is no instruction to tithe in the New Testament, but I would also say that doesn't mean you shouldn't give 20 or 30 percent if the Lord has enabled you to do so and it makes you happy. I might also add that giving should never be for bragging rights, AND much very important giving is not with money, rather with labor and volunteer work of various types. Some people don't have money to give, but that doesn't mean their offering of labor means any less than someone giving money or goods. One also should not compare the amount of money and try to figure out what's fair between the rich and the very poor. It goes right back to what God has enabled you to give with a cheerful heart. The actual 10% was Old Testament Mosaic Law. For today, I would say that a Christian SHOULD definitely give, but the amount and the type should be between that individual and God. It certainly should NOT be for recognition, status in the community, or pride. I'll paraphrase: give with one hand as if the other hand doesn't know how much it is. I would also say:  if the Lord has enabled you to give 30%, you feel led by the Holy Spirit to give it to the Lord's work, and you will give it with a happy heart - you need to do so. BUT, there is no New Testament Law, Commandment, or instruction to do this. Just two cents worth.

Love in Christ,
Tom

Psalms 107:8-9 NASB  Let them give thanks to the LORD for His lovingkindness, And for His wonders to the sons of men!  For He has satisfied the thirsty soul, And the hungry soul He has filled with what is good.

Thank you. It's great to be here.


Wow. That's a good question. Hmm. Well, I don't know of a place where it says that.


Very true. I did some study on this not long ago, and it started churning in the back of my mind, so I thought I would launch out and see what others have found. I did find, like you said, that the tithe was a tenth only of the increase of the fields, orchards, vineyards, flocks and herds, not of the wages from wage earners, such as those who were hired to help harvest by the property owner, etc. According to what I read, not even Jesus was required to tithe since He had none of the things from which the tithe was to be taken, especially considering that He had nowhere to lay His head. (I wish I had my Bible software with me here at the office, but it's not allowed on this computer.So, please forgive my inability to quote all the relevant verses.)


Another good question. Upon reflection, if I may offer this, those places were supported by a secondary portion of the people's giving rather than the primary portion, such as the tithe, considering that the tithe was food items of various sorts rather than money.


Good point. I'm no expert on the timing of all these events, I recall that Jesus also commanded the leper to go and show himself to the priest, and then offer up burnt sacrifices according to the Law, in Matt. 8:4 (I read this just last night in my reading). So, since Jesus told a people who were still under the Law, and who were raising produce, even spices, to tithe from it, and He also told another to offer up burnt sacrifices, are we also required to do both since the burnt offering was a thank offering rather than symbolic of the price paid for our sins? (Please forgive my inability to put my questions into a more understandable form.)

In other words (if I can get this right), how do we differentiate between the command to offer up burnt sacrifices and the acknowledgment of the lawful requirement to tithe from one another when both were spoken to the Jews who were still under the Law? What line of distinction exists between the two, and how do we substantiate this line of distinction beyond question?


I thought this was a collection for the meeting of needs of the saints in Jerusalem? Is that correct?


Yes. It does cost money to run our various operations.

As for how much a person should give, we are told:


I eagerly await your response to my questions, because they've been, like I said, churning in the back of my mind.

Thanks

Wow. It's been a while since I read that. I forgot all about it. Upon reading it again, I can say that I wouldn't feel comfortable teaching this one to my kids as an example, one reason being that Jacob tied a bunch of conditional strings, in verse 20, to his promise to tithe. We can see that Jacob made his tithe conditional upon God meeting his demands. I prefer to not play such games with the Lord. Jacob was very wrong on many things in his life, thus his name, which actually means "deceiver" if I remember my Sunday school lessons correctly.


Yes, the Law was very precise to those who were under its obligation. You know, I love how the Lord showed such tremendous compassion in His Law, and made such wondrous provision for the needy. The tithe, almost 99% of it, went for the meeting of needs, not for the upkeep of the temple or any other structure. It provided for the priests, Levites, orphans, widows and strangers in the land.


Yes. Those who were under the Law had ceased to remain obedient to the commands of the Law, and the Lord had to do something. I once heard David Jeremiah teach that it was the religious leadership who was to blame for the tithe not being brought in because they were taking the best of the tithe for themselves and selling the rest, therefore getting rich rather than giving a portion of the tithe to the needy as the Law commanded. When the people saw that, they stopped beinging it in. He also said that the people's not giving was also based on their own greed, with which I would have to agree. I never did go in and verify this, but it does sound plausible.


Very true indeed. :)

Thank you. :)


I can agree with this. I do wonder, though, as to where we are to give? For clarification, I have begun to put some things together from the scriptures. In the OT, the tithe went for meeting needs, except the portion consumed by the tither during the festival celebrations before the Lord. (I've never heard this part about the tithe taught from the pulpit, strangely enough.) In the NT, we see a continuance of that same priority reflected int he collections, which also went for the meeting of needs. What this says to me is that the primary portion of our giving should always go for the meeting of needs, and whatever we give secondarily can go wherever we so desuire, such as the support of organized religion and its facilities and lawn care. Does that make sense? We today, when giving the primary portion of our giving to our church, the largest portion of it is being absorbed by the institution itself for its own expenditures and expansion rather than the meeting of needs. Where in the Bible did God ever authorize this shift away from His clear commands and examples in His written word for us to knowingly support buildings and lawn care above the care and provsion for our fellow believers in need, and the needy in our respective communities?

[/quote]I might also add that giving should never be for bragging rights, AND much very important giving is not with money, rather with labor and volunteer work of various types. Some people don't have money to give, but that doesn't mean their offering of labor means any less than someone giving money or goods.[/quote]

Very good points. Thanks. :)


This seems plausible to me.


Well, I can say that many of our modern-day church insitutions have some pretty sophisticated architecture for buidings. What I can't help but to wonder is how many needy people went without their needs being met so that the people behind those fancy walls could enjoy that monument to their pride. I mean, some of those places are downright gawdy.

Thanks, Tom, for your reply.

First of all I think that there is some confusion as to the word tithe itself. The original words in Greek were apodekatoo and dekatoo and in Hebrew it was mar  masar  maasrah. The Hebrew word when properly translated means "a tenth".

The Greek word apodekatoo when properly translated into English can have several meanings ....  give ....  pay  ......  take. The Greek word dekatoo meant to give or take a tenth. It was used in those times for more than just the church. This word was used between private individuals in regards to giving, business deals, etc. In business deals it was the required repayment plan so to speak.  I am telling you this because I noted that you give a dilineation between tithe and the giving of other things. There are many people that still tend to try to separate tithing and giving but it is all in the same.

In the OT the people were required to give a tenth of their increase for a specific purpose. Anything else they were to have given for anything else was above that, from the heart.

In the NT we are no longer under the law. We are told to give(tithe) from the heart. This may mean giving(tithing) more than a tenth or less than a tenth. Today we do not deal in goods such as food but instead we deal in money. Giving to the church building, Love Offerings, giving to the Pastor's pay, giving to Missionaries, giving to the poor..... When we do these things we are tithing.

There are many verses in the NT that tells us to give to various things (His work, to the poor ....) and we are told that we will be rewarded accordingly. Some verses on this:

Your question on 1Co 16:2 ....  If we go to 2Cor 9 we see that they are talking about collecting things for the distribution between the saints and all men (for some of it went also to the poor).


2Co 9:5  Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.
2Co 9:6  But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
2Co 9:7  Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
2Co 9:8  And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
2Co 9:9  (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.

Hebrews 8 and 9 are also an excellant study for tithing.


I hope that I covered all of your questions on this.

Blademan,


I must agree with this totally. A house of worship need not be lined with gold, silver and crystal. That money would be better spent on helping the poor which is commanded of us to do in the NT even after the law.

So, are you saying that they were required to pay a tenth of their wages as well? If so, then to whom did they hand it over? Was it the Levites? Who? My understanding of one's wages is that it is not a form of increase as the Bible defines increase. Wages are an exchange of one's labor, time and skills for money, not an increase. Now, an investment of money could fall within the biblical definition of increase, as Jesus's parable about the three servants and the coins they were given to invest. Increase from the fields, orchards, vineyards, herds and flocks were just that, an increase. When a man planted a kernel of corn, and got back 100, 500, 1000 times more than he planted, then that was an increase. When I exchange my time, labor, and skills, then it's just that, an exchange. Does that make sense?

Read what I said again. I did not say anything of that sort.   ::) ::) ::)

Yes, we are the priests now according to 1Peter2. In Hebrews 7 it is also very clear that there is a change of priesthood, hence a change or the law.  The old has gone - obsolete, the new has come.  We can give more or less than 10% - as our heart purposes, not out of compulsion.  Besides, in the tithing law - if we go back to the old testament, tithes were only given once every three years.

Exactly. And the ever increasing claim of many but not all tithing proponents that 'God cannot move if we don't give to the church' is in itself blasphemous.  'God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things...' Any True Christian has an obligation to give to those in need - especially to believers in need - and if you are a True Christian, it won't be out of compulsion but cheerfully.  10%, 25% 50%, Everything - if it is in your heart to give then do so.  It is a pity though that many churches use tithing as an excuse to get money from the congregation - even when it is not needed. 

What I was after is your understanding of the Bible's definition (use) of the term "increase". Sorry if I didn't make that more clear.

Thanks

.

The word increase that was used in the OT in reference to tithes was tebû'âh. This word specifically means =  income, that is, produce, fruit, gain, increase, revenue.

As we see from the explanation above it does mean income. As I said before, the primary income of these people at that time was the things that they had raised. Let's use an example here. A certain person started out with one bushel of wheat seeds to plant for that year. Then at the end of the year, after harvest was complete, he had 101 bushels. That would make his increase (income) to be 100 bushels. Therefore his tithe would have been 10 bushels.

As I also said, most of us today do not deal in crops but in cash. So our increase is in cash, the fruit of our labor. IF WE WERE UNDER THE LAW today then we would be required to tithe our increase (income, gain, revenue) which would be whatever we had gained for that year.

However we are under Grace not under the law. Therefore we are to have grace when we give (tithe) for the needs of God's work and for the poor.

There is no new testament tithe that i can find (by way of order to Christians to give to church). so the requirement is not the ten percent we are taught!

now here the kicker, we were commanded to give according to the needs of the people and from the heart...that sometimes meant that we sell all of our possesions to do so.

the church needs to have rent paid, electricity (the bills), the pastor needs to eat, etc.
but if i am faithful in my giving (tithe, offering, talents, time), and i fall on hard times, should the money go to the new building or to my need? i am not talking about me just not being able to handle money, I'm talking about if i lost my job, or something that i have no control over takes place, or I'm about to be homeless, should my pastor be driving around in a fancy car, out having diner and wonderful trips, new suits, etc?

i am really praying about how I'm  going to handle my tithe, because i give everything i have for the use of the lord. i have been blessed because of it, but i wonder if its because i tithe faithfully or is it because of what i do outside of church which is where i give the most.

we really need to stop manipulating gods business, and get clear answers.

what pastor out there is going to tell their member the truth about this subject? our faith is so low that we don't really believe if we told the truth we'd still be taken care of...o ye of little faith. we trust the tithe system more than we trust the Lord Jesus. how weak of us.....

i really am trying to decide how i am going to deal with this.

I know a few that do, tell the truth. Course these are home style Churches, like what I belong to.

GKB, I will pray for you, that the Lord leads you in the direction he desires.

Thank you dreamweaver,

     your prayers are greatly appreciated...i have been moving forward in ministry, and i have started a rap session out of My home. its every Tuesday at 7pm. so far we have had three consecutive sessions. the first was about 4 people, the second, more than doubled, and the third, i had to look for extra seating.

     many are saying that they have never been blessed to this level even after spending a great deal of time in the church building, all of which i give god all the glory...i praise him for what hes doing, even if he does it through a filthy dirty rag like me. god gets the glory, all of the fruit of my lips and heart...jesus, i love him... jesus, i love you! thanks be to god for the things he has done.

     I'm saying that to say this, I will not cheat the people out of the truth. on whatever level, be it about the tithe, or about sin, or about salvation, i will tell the truth...so please dream weaver, continue to pray for me.

Our fellowship is also home style and the Lord has ALWAYS provided for all our needs.  We never practice tithing but we do practice giving - those who have more of something give to those brethren who lack and whatever the need of any member the Lord always touches each member who can answer that need.  None of us are ever burdened and we all give to those who need according as we 'purpose' in our heart. 

'For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye be burdened:
But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.'

I shall continue, my prayers for you GKB.

AMEN!! dandirom

Please pardon my insatiable appetite for detail, and I hope you don't mind my asking, but where did you get that definition?


Would you agree that a word's use within its defining text determines which of its possible definitions actually apply? If so, then how does "income" figure into the overall picture since the "increase of..." was spoken specifically in relation to produce and animals rather than wages? Do you know of an instance where the Law demanded a tenth of one's wages if they had no fields or herds?


But doesn't this ignore the fact that there was always currency of some sort as long as Israel existed? The towns people who had no lands or herds did indeed conduct commerce on the basis of currency, or precious metals, rather than food stuffs. How do you account for this contradiction to your statements?

Thanks for indulging my questions.  8)

It is derived from Strong's Reference Dictionary, reference number H8393.




In the example that I gave earlier on the bushel of wheat, would that not be income provided by the Lord? Even farmers of today consider their crops as income, it is a profit if their crops come in above what it took them to plant it and a financial loss if it doesn't. In early days not all business deals were done in money. Trade in kind was frequently used. "n" bushels of wheat could purchase "n" sheep. Although there may have been "money" available it was not a common means of business transactions in all areas, certainly not amongst the early Jewish people.


It is not a contradiction. As I said above, money (coins, gold, etc) was not the only nor the major means of conducting business transactions in early times.

Just give a heads up, this tuesdays rap session, it was standing room only! praise the lord, i still have not asked for a tithe  or a offering, yet the increase has been coming.

I started re-reading the Bible this past few weeks; i mean re-reading it from Genesis. I started Genesis 1:1 last January and now i am in Numbers. Yesterday, March 6, i just read this verse

But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance. Numbers 18:24

What i infer on this, God have given the tithes for the Levites use.  The tenth of the tithe

Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe. Numbers 18:26

will be offered to the Lord.

(Anyway, to those who have forgoten the background of this verse. This is the time God commanded Moses to number the Israelites and tell them there inheritance in the land promised to Abraham.)

Well, I just want to share this. I know this were all commandments to israelites.  We in the grace period have to give what our heart desire.

with regards to those people who doesn't have harvest, there were money equivalents given
example:

And those that are to be redeemed from a month old shalt thou redeem, according to thine estimation, for the money of five shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary, which is twenty gerahs Number 18:16

If a soul commit a trespass, and sin through ignorance, in the holy things of the LORD; then he shall bring for his trespass unto the LORD a ram without blemish out of the flocks, with thy estimation by shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for a trespass offering:  Leviticus 5:15

What i am just showing here is that, there was money equivalent of the offerings or tithes.

Thank you BLAD. I thought that I had remembered reading that but couldn't find it when this topic was brought up.

Sorry to interrupt, but the church that I started going to actually played the song "Give to the Lord". Has anyone heard of it? Its pretty funny. Anyway, its almost like telling you to give, or your Robing God by not giving.

Honestly, I really don't believe that you have to give. God knows that we reach out and give with our holy spirit. I don't think God would condemn us for not giving money.

God Bless
Christina

No need to apologize, Christina. All are welcometo join in the conversation. We are to give as the Holy Spirit leads us to give. This does not necessarily mean to a church. Sometimes it is to those that have a need, the poor, instead.

Thanks.. and yeah that was what I kind of meant..lol I think I need to get some sleep, its like 12:30am..

lol .... I know what you mean .... it is 12:30 AM where I am also.

Ah shucks, it's only 10:40 here. ;D

Anyway, guys have a good night and I'll talk to you all later.

May God keep you safe.
God Bless
Christina

Yeah, some of us are 'behind the times'.   ;) ;D ;D

You have a good night, also.

You have  a great night, as well Christina.

Nope, some of us are ahead in time. ;D ;) ;D