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WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT PASTORS WHO ALLOW THEIR CHILDREN TO TAKE LEADERSHIP OVER YOU, EVEN WHEN THEY MAKE NO EFFORT TO LIVE HOLY? AM I WRONG FOR NOT LETTING THESE PEOPLE LAY HANDS ON ME?

Hi GKB,

I'm not sure if I have welcomed you to the forum yet so I extend a warm welcome to Christians Unite.

I don't know the situation with your Pastors children that you are speaking of and don't care to know, but Pastors children should be afforded the same as anyone else in the church and not be given a position just because they are his children. If they are not properly abiding by the standards set forth in the Bible and in the church then they should not be allowed to hold a position any more than anyone else would be.

thank you for that honest reply....i can certainly respect it.

Pastor Roger, just to change track slighty here although it does tie in with the original post. As you know, i live in the UK so i listen to a lot of Christian radio via the internet. I was listerning to a station in Maine USA on Monday morning and the program was called walking through the bible, or something very similar to that. The teacher who was leading the lesson touched on this point and said that if churches today followed the biblical prinicapals for qualification, as set out in the new testament, for anyone in leadership within the church, meaning Pastors, deacons, elders etc, then the chuch in America (he mentioned America as this is where the program aired from, but is applicable worldwide) would see massive changes and would be so much more in tune with the Lord and for the will of his church.
I wished i had taken notes now as i could have mentioned a lot more of his points from the lesson.

Hi Joey,

Actually your comments tie in with the subject of this thread quite nicely. One of the requiremnets of a Pastor is to hold his family together in the ways of the Lord. If he is knowing of a fault within his family and is not inforcing this with that family then he is not doing his job correctly. If what GKB says in this thread and others he has posted then the Pastor is not complying with his Biblical duties and he needs to take action on it or step down from his position (not doubting GKBs word, just saying that I am not making judgements on it as I don't know the facts).

A PASTORS SON JUST HAD A BABY WITH A SISTER IN THE CHURCH, AND A FEW DAYS AFTER MARRIED A DIFFERENT SISTER IN THE CHURCH. NOT TO MENTION THE SCORES OF YOUNG LADIES HE SLEEP WITH PRIOR TO THESE EXPOSING INCIDENTS. ITS NO BIG DEAL, I KNOWRIGHT FROM WRONG, I JUST THOUGHT IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO HEAR OTHER VIEWS, BECAUSE THE PASTOR TRIES TO TELL ME THAT HIS SON IS JUST FRIENDLY.

Hello GKB,

I would say that you are attending the wrong church, but you'll have to make that decision for yourself. As for me, I would have already left that church and found a local assembly that honors God.

Love in Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 3:11-13 NASB  This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and confident access through faith in Him. Therefore I ask you not to lose heart at my tribulations on your behalf, for they are your glory.

blackeyedpeas, i am having such a hard time finding a good spirit filled church, its amazing. not to mention, this is the only church i have ever known, and i have learned some really good things here. but some things have turned and the lord removed me from this congregation, but i really just feel like i'm in a wilderness experience. have you ever been to a place like this?

Hello GKB,

No, I've never been in a situation like that, not even close. So, it's really not fair for me to say what I would do. I can only say what I think I would do, but I can say with some degree of certainty that I wouldn't put up with something like that very long.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 111:7-8 NASB  The works of His hands are truth and justice; All His precepts are sure.  They are upheld forever and ever; They are performed in truth and uprightness.

I'll put i this way, if God is not there, i wouldn't attend. Sometimes we need a wilderness experience in order for God to speak to us. I've not been to a formal church service like that I've known at my my old church but maybe 2 times and those were the only times when I went home. I do not go to church all the time here at college. I do not have a church home up here at college right now because I normally have other things that are pressing. However, that doesn't mean my walk has suffered any because God still gets my attention and speaks to me through other ways such as people. As far as your pastor's son, your pastor should know the requirements for being a pastor I will never be able to go back and be as comfortable there because God has opened my eyes as to some things there that aren't godly and holy....being away from my church has taught me that I should BE a witness instead of going and putting on a front sunday after sunday as so many today do. I would venture to say that you should fine a congregation that no only honors God, but has a balance with teaching the Word of God and are doctrinally sound. This may require studying and research, but I believe is it essential for the parishioner today to STUDY instead of being spoonfed. I saw such at my home church and I vowed to never be ignorant of what the Pastor is preaching or teaching such that I can personally know that what he is teaching is doctrinally sound. Hope this helps a little. Just a few thoughts.

Coram Deo,
Joshua

I have to agree with bep's. It sounds like you are in the wrong Church. I belong to a small Church, membership is now, 37.

I would suggest looking for a small, home style Church. Like mine, there is always room to grow. When I joined my Church there were only 6 members.

Resting in ther hands, of the Lord.
Bob

Proverbs 21:16 A man who wanders out of the way of understanding shall abide in the congregation of the spirits (of the dead).

THANKS JERMIDON, I APPRECIATE YOUR INPUT....AND IT CERTAINLY DESCRIBES WHERE I AM RIGHT NOW. A WILDERNESS EXPERIENCE. CONTRARY TO WHAT I WAS TAUGHT, I FEEL LIKE I'M DOING BETTER WITHOUT A CHURCH HOME THAN I'VE EVER DONE IN MY WHOLE JOURNEY.

I ALSO THANK YOU DREAMWEAVER, COINSCIDENTLY, I FEEL LIKE THE LORD IS LEADING ME TO A SMALLER CHURCH. I KNOW THIS ONE THING, I LOVE THE LORD JESUS! AND REST IN THAT FACT! YOUR INPUT IS APPRECIATED!

I am new hear and hope that my input helps a bit.  I am a British missionary serving in Guatemala and was soemwhat shocked on a recent visit to Geramny to find some teenage girls scantily dressed showing their belly buttons and aslo having short skirts.  Two were pastors daughters, who led the worship.  I felt that the elders should have done soemthing but maybe their daughters were also the sa.e.  On the point of small churches, In Guatemala where I come from we ahve very large churches and i find nothign wrong with them.  We have over 28% born again Christians.   God is big, so lets think big.

Hello Mills,

WELCOME!!!


We are very happy to have you on the forum. I look forward to reading your posts and having fellowship with you. We have several missionaries who check in here with us from time to time from around the world. I must add that many members of my own family are missionaries, so I appreciate what you are doing.

I will be praying for your ministry, and I sincerely hope that you enjoy Christians Unite.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 4:20-21 NASB  yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

Thank you Tom for your kind words and welcome.  I just love serving the King.

Hi Mills,

Welcome to the forum. I look forward to hearing more from you especially of your mission.

Hello Roger, I have been serving the Lord in Guatemala for the past 12 years where I have planted 2 churches.  Both are now over 300 people in each, but our vision is to win Guatemala for the Lord.  A long way to go but there again our God is big!  But we stay humble.   People can read about us in www.finalharvestministries.com   Blessings Jeff Mills

I Timothy Chapter 3   This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop (an overseer) he desireth a good (excellent) work.  2. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach.  3. Not given (prone) to wine, no striker (scrapper), not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;  4. One that ruleth (manages) well his own house, having his children in subjection (under control) with all gravity; 5. For if a man know not how to rule his own house (family), how shall he take care of the church of God?

This chapter of I Timothy  came to mind when I read your post.  

thank you for theses wonderful responses marmor636, and to the missionary who is doing such a wonderful work! i did leave this church, and i am certainly on a faith walk. i live in baltimore, md...any suggestions on a good ministry? i know all places will proberly have their issues, but i just believe there is somewhere i need to be to aquire my next level of teaching.

GKB,

A couple of things...................seek God on this.  Maybe He wants you all to Himself for a little while. Maybe He'll want you to start your own church from your home.  It took an awful lot for you to leave a church that you had called home for so long.  Maybe God wants you to lead, now.  Think about it.  Seek Him.  You'll get an answer............listen for His voice.

Grace and peace,
cris

cris, you really just hit my spirit, because i wonder about that, but i am being very careful to not move out of the will of god. but i certainly receive this....not because it sounds good, but because its true....i already have been opening my door to the people of god....people are beginning to give their life to christ right in my livingroom....amazing huh?  god bless you cris, because you really did bless me.... i have soooo far to go.

I live in a small town.  My home church is of course, a small church.  It's nondenominational, which I love!  I have been able to verify everything my pastor teaches by reading the bible for myself.  If anyone has ever heard of Calvary Chapel; or know where one is, give it a visit - you may be pleasantly surprised!  

I pray that everyone finds a church that is welcoming, comfortable and spiritully fulfilling.  It's all about God!  If you can't back up your church's teaching in the KJV bible, you may want to move on. . . I don't put any credence in the JW's bible or the Mormon's or any other 'bible' that has been rewritten to fit man's desires.  We are here to fulfill God's desires and to please Him by worship and in praise.

Blessings-

Hello Mills!  I don't think I've had a chance to welcome you to the CU Forums - so WELCOME!  As you have already discovered, there are a lot of loving christians here that will support you, pray for you and never judge....

I too am permanently disabled.  My right leg was amputated three years ago and my left leg is in danger as we speak.  I also suffer from diabetic retinopathy, which causes blindness - I've had four surgeries on my eyes.  I don't mention this because I'm a complainer, I mention it to show that everyone suffers in some way or another - but NO ONE suffers like Christ did for us on the cross !

I look forward to your posts, and getting to know you better.

Blessings -

Hi talker cat.   I have seen many miracles and healings in my ministry as an Evangelists but I am fed up of people who say"Well Jeff, just believe and you WILL be healed!"    God is not a Credit Card whom you just stick in a  machine and out comes you healing.   There is more to Him than that.   We need to have a close relationship with him 24 hours a day.  With that my pain is less.   Hey, just think!  In heaven we will be perfect"   Blessings to you Cat, from Jeff

I know I'm healed! Sure, one of my legs is missing and I'm slowly going blind, but I AM HEALED.  God uses His vessels here on earth to do His work; and but for the surgeries I've had, I'd be dead.  It was life or limb for me and by removing my leg, my life was spared - viola! HEALED!  And some day soon,  I'll leave this wheelchair behind and dance in heaven.  If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times: I'd rather be serving Him from a wheelchair than have both legs and not know Him.....

Blessings -

Brothers and Sisters,

I've been reading these posts, and I give thanks that we are simply short-term visitors here. For Christians, this world is not our home, rather our Citizenship is in Heaven with JESUS.

I give thanks for the Promises of GOD. This age will definitely come to an end at God's appointed time. GOD has also promised us Glorified Bodies for eternity, and there won't be any more pain or sorrow. Take heart Brothers and Sisters - KEEP LOOKING UP!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hebrews 12:1-2 NASB  Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

The first thing you should do is pray about. Ask God for guidance...  If you read the Bible, what you do here is be bold... Tell what is wrong because as i see it people in your Church have been blinded.  Confront if you need to; but, if you do you have to have a fellow Christian who stand in the thruth.

I forgot the exact verse where Paul confront the church where there is an adultery going on.  If your church will not face the problem it has; the punishment of God may be felt by all.

AMEN blad. this is quite a journey i am on, very lonley, and very strange to me. i can't get much advice because i am traveling the road less traveled...but please saints of god, pray for me...i really want to be in the will of the lord jesus!

I think you mean 1 Corinthians 5.  The qualifications are all in the Bible, take 1 Timothy 3 for example.  'One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with alll gravity:
(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?).

And in Titus 1, 'If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having FAITHFUL CHILDREN not accused of riot or unruly.'

 :D forgive me for pointing out the obvious but in my neck of the woods, pastors (we like to call them priest) are not supposed to have any children. I supposed God intended it to be this way specifically for situations like this.

Here I must disagree again for there is no where in the God's word that says that. In fact it says the opposite:

1Ti 3:2  A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3  Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4  One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5  (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

 ??? First let me say that as a man of God I respect you. However when these things were written these terms did not mean the same thing. What is worse deliberate mistranslation were employed when the protestants switched from the vulgate. It is true that the Greek Orthodox allow thier priest to marry...but never the Bishops.

Even if we go back to the Greek wording we still see the same thing. We also see that some of the Apostles were married.

Mat 8:14  And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.

i never suggested that some of the apostles were not married. All i am saying is that god does not intend for priest to be married because if he did then they would be.

Priest are not married because of their own choosing. It has nothing to do with what God does or does not want them to do.

 :-[ you got me there. I have not a clue as to what you are sayng. Are you suggesting that priest choose not to marry? that boggles my mind... in a respectfull manner of course

That is a choice that priests made. This is what Paul was talking about when he said that he wish that others would do as he did (paraphrased). Paul chose not to marry but he did not teach that the others could not do so, including those that were leaders of a church. In fact he approved of their doing so within certain guidelines.

 :o I guess this is where i fall in the great divide. The bible is open to so many interpretations. Just like the constitution. Where would we be without the Supreme Court to intrepret it for us. That is why we have the Curia. A court of Apostlic Successors to Peter to intrepret the bible. This is why we have such rancor and division among the protestants.

There is also a lot of rancor and division amongst the catholics. Now I must warn you. We are not going to have another catholic/protestant war here so don't get started on it by making such comments. We are not going to have teachings that are quite plainly against the teachings of the Bible. You asked some questions and I gave you what the Bible says, not what some man told me to say. The Bible is our first and final authority not a man. Jesus Christ is the head of the church not a man.

Eph 1:22  And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23  Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Eph 5:23  For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Col 1:18  And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.


The church mentioned here is not a certain denomination or brick and mortar building, it the assembly of those saved by the grace of God.

there was a catholic/protestent war? when was this?
my intention is not to cause rancor, I am just trying to understand why protestants are well...protestants.

The war was here on this forum. This forum is about uniting Christians not division by the teaching of denominations. Denominations are the product of man, not God.

here Pastor we have Perfect concord.

excellent point pastor roger.

when your right you are right! those last words were spoken from a standpoint of relationship with god, one that goes past religion!

GKB:

First, let me say that no one's child (pastor or not) should be put in a leadership position unless they are attempting to live a Godly life.

Secondly, you need to realize that the religious organizations we call "church", with all it's doctrine, dogma, rules, regulations, icons and traditions, were not founded by Jesus but by men in an apparent attempt to establish something tangible in place of an invisible God and the cause of Christ has been going downhill ever since.  Jesus called out followers and the leaders and guidlines listed in the Bible were for the Body of Believers NOT religious organizations.

So you need to expect things to happen in the religious organization that cannot be justified Scripturally, especially in these end-times.  You need to find another church or group to fellowship with.

Excuse me, but where in the Bible does it say that God does not intend for priests to be married?  This is out of topic, by the way, but God always intended man to have the woman as a 'helpmate'.  Of course a man may choose to be unmarried but with sadly with the catholic church, i know for a fact that being unmarried is not by choice, it is a doctrine of the Roman Catholic church that a priest HAS to be unmarried.  "But a priest has a choice", one will say.  Does he?  Will the Roman Catholic church ordain you as a priest if you are married? No, thereby it is not a choice but a doctrine that priests are forbidden to marry.  Incidentally, the only mention in the Bible about forbidding to marry is in Timothy, where 'some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils...forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats...'

Furthermore, the old order or priesthood has already been abolished, the old has been replaced with the new. 'For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.' 

''Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood..."

The Bible doesn't forebit marriage dandirom.

Ezekiel 44:22 Neither shall they take for their wives a widow or a woman separated or divorced from her husband; but they shall marry maidens [who are virgins] of the offspring of the house of Israel or a widow previously married to a priest.

Leviticus 21:7 They shall not take a wife who is a harlot or polluted or profane or divorced, for [the priest] is holy to his God.

All that does is it sets the standard for Priest getting married. It doesn't forbid a Priest from getting married.