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ok I have a question...I have always believed that men are the stronger sex and should have the final say..but thats the problem for me...I don't want to feel like I'm a slave and can't do anything I want...

for example...my mom has been wanting to go to her high school renunions for years now..and she can't go unless my dad goes with her..but he won't so she doesn't get to go and she said if she did it would cause problems between them because he believes she will hook up with one of her old boyfriends

so is it right for the man to say you can't do something that you really want to do..but then its ok for him to do something that he wants to do even if you don't want him to do it?

The problem for me is if I have my heart set on doing something i have always done it...so now are you saying that I have to do whatever the guy I marry says with no questions asked?....because if thats the case...and I have no say in it..then that marriage won't last very long at all!....I'm a very strong-willed person and I don't let people boss me around!...so am I wrong about this or not?

        Snowyangel;
     First WELCOME
     Second It sounds like you have a good mother but your father may be another matter.

      First we all should obey GOD rather then man if there is ever a discreptency between what GOD says or man says. If you were my wife and you wanted to do something and asked to I would at least give it concideration, but you wouldn't be a slave, no wife should be, but yes the man should be the head of the family.

Hi, Snowy. This is a hot issue for a lot of women; while God did make men head of the household, they aren't supposed to be abusing it. And sometimes they do. Obedience is pleasing to the Lord, so you're best off finding a husband who values your input and loves you and wants you to be happy, who doesn't use the Bible to force you into something miserable because he doesn't want to compromise ever. That can be a terrible burden! I'd say take your time. Enjoy being single, do the things you want to do in life, and if a guy comes along that loves you so much you can't bear to be apart, obedience won't be a burden, but a joy. Blessings to you.

Hi, Snowy! Welcome!!

If I could add my meager input: In answer to your question, men and women have specific roles in marriage; the guy is the leader, the gal should be submissive, but it is the guy's responsibility that he not lead his wife wrong, and I honestly believe that although a woman should do her best to submit to her husband, she shouldn't go against God. Women are told that they are "the weaker vessel" - I don't see this as "helpless", or "unimportant" - actually, I see it as women being like a fine glass treasure which must be respected and cared for.
Another thing: marriage is two people becoming one. I promise that if you marry, you'll have some troubles - EVERYBODY does. This is because you have two different people trying to live together and (hopefully!) follow the Lord. We're humans - we can't always treat our mate perfectly.

 If you do find a husband, God will help you to do what is right. You are not a worthless slave, but a precious "vessel" to some lucky guy out there.

Men are not to walk on women and vice versa,  even though men are the head that does not give them the right to treat you as a slave.  we are to give of ourself as Christ gave of Himself.

The word tells us somewhere that we are to test the spirits to see if they are of God.  So test your boyfriend to see if He has the spirit of Christ within.

How he treats you now is how he will treat you after the Vows and the Vows are not to be broken.

Does he get jealous now when you are around male friends?

Does he blow-up at little things?

This is very important to know now while you can still walk away.  If you say "I DO" then you are stuck there for the rest of your life.  And if you enter in to Marriage with the Ideal that you can just get a divorce then you have already doomed the marriage before the "I DO" has been said.

Anyone who thinks that there is a plan "B"  (Divorce)  (prenuptials) ETC. is only fooling themselves and will pay a very high price for having this plan as a fire escape.

If the man and women enter into this marriage with Christ as the Head and the man as a spiritual leader and the woman fullfilling Her God given role then the man will have no reason to mistrust her and she can go anywhere but She must learn to trust her man that he will not lead her wrong.  but he must first be a man who places his complete trust in Christ.  Men somehow think that they have a Lordship over women, and if they would read the word they have to give more then the women, even to the point of laying down their life for her as Christ layed down His life for the Church.  There is great responability for the man as the Head of a Home,  not the King of a House.  If it is a man who says "Get me another Beer women" then He has no Spirit of Christ at all, and lacks understanding of his posistion as a leader.  

Women could rule the world through Godly knowldge of submission to the man as he leans on God.  but the man has to do his part first before she has to do her part.  the women submits to a Godly man, not to a man.  if you are in Christ then Christs word applies to you.  but if you are not a Christian then when does His word apply?  Except that those who are not his will go to Hell, that is the only part a non-Christian has in all the word of God, so if the man is not Godly then when else does Gods word apply to Him? even as a Leader.  if He is not following Christ then He is not a Leader.

I disagree, Early57. The Bible tells us to obey our husbands. It doesn't matter if the man is a Christian or not. While I agree that the man should love his wife, I don't think in the case of the parents that we're talking about that the man is to be disobeyed. It might be a big deal for the mom to want to go to the reunion, but she will set a big example for her daughter and for wives everywhere if she will submit. This is not a question of disobeying God. If the husband were to ask her to sin, then of course she would have to obey God and refuse to sin. But she should do it in a humble manner, and not with pride or arrogance. I am learning a lot about Biblical submission lately, and the small bit that I have implemented in my home has made drastic differences in the overall happiness.

Snowy Angel, if you get married there will be times when you feel like a slave. But we are called to be slaves for Christ! Serving one another in love is a very fulfilling thing. The times that you submit to your husband will bring happiness to you because you will be residing within the will of God.
Now, you must of course go through a number of steps before marriage to ensure that this is the perfect match that God had in mind for you before you were both born! #1: Prayer! #2: Marry a Christian! #3 Get your parents' approval and his parents' too! #4 Be chaste! #5 When you find that man who is right for you, love him! Now this is an action verb! I mean to show love by actively trying to please him! He is more than likely going to return the favor when he sees how much you want to work hard at being a good wife! My husband sees the slightest change in me and is overjoyed, full of praise and love. Read Proverbs 31. A great chapter for wives. God will lead you to the right person for you. There will be disagreements, as one of the other ladies here mentioned. But just keep returning to the Lord for guidance! Best of luck to you! Remember, God knows what is best. Follow His Word, and you will find that it will actually turn out ok!

When the word tells you to be in submission who is the writer speaking to?

When you are to obey whom is the writer speaking to?

Show the verses where the ungodly are given places of rule over a spouse

Early 57, I will look up some scriptures for Snowy Angel to see if I can help out. It may be that I am wrong. However, in all Christian love, may I point out that you are on "Just for Women"? I thought I could get on these threads and discuss womanly things without a man overseeing. It makes me very uncomfortable to think that if I was discussing personal female stuff, that you would be listening in. I'd rather see you on the coed threads!

1 Peter 3:1-2

In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives,
as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior.

Now, you see that this is talking about unsaved husbands. It clearly tells wives to "be submissive" and to "respect" them. Early 57, even without the clear language in this verse, do you think it would be ok for a godly woman to be in outright rebellion against her husband? "No, I won't do what you tell me, I won't! My will! Mine! Mine!"  ;D  That wouldn't be the Christian way to act.

If a woman marries an ungodly man, it is her duty to obey him, to the extent that she does not sin against God. The Bible warns against "uneven yokes", because it can cause great misery; but marriage is marriage, and if the Christian woman were to dominate her ungodly husband, even if she "knew better", it would be a sin for her.

thank you Willow.

You're welcome  :)

However, in all Christian love, may I point out that you are on "Just for Women"? I thought I could get on these threads and discuss womanly things without a man overseeing. It makes me very uncomfortable to think that if I was discussing personal female stuff, that you would be listening in.

 ??? On a public forum, how much privacy are you expecting? Did the other men who posted on this same thread bother you or just Early 57?
 Men have mothers, wives, sisters, daughters, nieces, etc. They have a perspective that can offer much insight. I think that's a good thing!  ;)

snowangel,
God knows your personality and temperment, which is why it's best to let Him lead you to a marriage. Every marriage will have its problems but a Christian married to a non-Christian has a whole extra set of problems.... :-X

Yeah, it's all the men on here that bother me, not just Early 57. I guess we need to change the topic to Just For Women and Anyone Who Is Not a Woman, Too. I guess I figured that I could get wisdom from women on here about women's issues and that Christian men would honor the topic heading. Oh well.

Don't mind me - but could it be possible that your dad is trying to keep their marriage healthy?  ??? If he believes there is a danger of your mom connecting with an old boyfriend, perhaps he's just trying to protect her! Like I said, don't mind me, lol!

eh-men!  :D

     Irish Angel,
    Good to see you, hope things are well with you, and Tiger.

     Willowbirch,
    It could be, but if so it wouldn't be that good if a man couldn't trust his wife.

Hey forrest  :D

I been flyin  thru the  crazy hazy days of summer...

 tiger ...away on safari...

thought maybe later i`d  wander oer to the men`s sandbox and see what ya`ll been up too without  me around  kickin up dust  ;)

    Irish Angel;
       Your welcome any time, also any of the women.

:P Yeah, I know. But sometimes we all need a little "protecting" from others. If he knows it could lead to trouble if he "trusts" his wife in something, then shouldn't he try to intervene? Too bad Adam "trusted" Eve... ;)
By the way! I'm just basing this argument on an idea! Maybe snowyangel's dilema is different. (Where'd she go, anywhoo?) :-X

   Willowbirch;
   Sorry that I havn't replied sooner, was Working.
   True there are times women need protection, but men are more often the ones needing protection at such times.
   
    SnowyAngel she seems to be a 1 time visiter

Hello I'm SpeedSpike ;D

I'm a male

I'm happy

I'm a christian

bye...

Short but effective...

I am very new here, and a relatively new Christian, so please don't beat me up for my ignorance:) I had not been a Christian when I married my husband. I ahve a 4 year old daughter who I take to church and teach about God. My husband and I have disagreements about the raising of our daughter, although he would never want any harm to come to her. Unfortunately, he swears around her constantly, sometimes at her. He has said in front of her that there is no God, even though he was raised Catholic (as was I). It becomes difficult for me to teach her all these good things when she hears so much negativity. I can't change the past, so I need to focus on how to raise her the best way I can.  Any advice???

Get involved in a Christian small group that can give you the support you need. You need to surround yourself with others who will pray with you and for you and your family. It will also help you to be patient and loving toward your husband and lead him toward Christ.

If he is being abusive verbally or physically then you may need professional counseling. I was saved before my husband, and he was angry toward me at times about the faith. He now tells the story that he couldnt stand the peace and joy I had in Christ. He is now a Christian as well (we were both raised Catholic).

Amen Liz!  I find it sad when a married couple can't work together, and enjoy life together.  That's what marriage is all about!  

It's difficult...My husband could be angry with me because I was one person when he married me, and now I expect him to change as I did...maybe that's not fair....but I do believe that if he were a Christian we would be a lot happier...it's always more peaceful in a home where the parents are in sync...my opinions...

Moira-

Dont expect him to change. Love him where he is at.

 Verses such as the one quoted from 1Peter were written to the culture of that particular time. Women were subordinate to men in literally every aspect of their lives. Even though now women were free in Christ in every way, by rebelling against what was expected of them was not in line with what God wanted. Our main goal as a Christian is to win others over to Him and to live our lives as examples of love. It doesnt mean "going along" or "giving in" but it does mean seeing your husband saved or not through the eyes of Christ and treating him with the love and compassion that Christ has for us.
You will and cannot change him, but God certainly can. The more you grow in Christ the more he will hopefully desire to want the kind of joy and peace you have found in Him.

I appreciate all of the insight from you women...yesterday my husband, daughter and I were coming home from Waikiki...tough life, huh?? (We're not rich and famous...just military:)) Anyway, I asked my husband if he believed that when he dies he will go to Heaven, and he got kind of angry about the question. He said that when he dies that's it. There is nothing else and talking about it is for "fools". Now, he is an adult, fine and good, but my daughter is only 4, and I am getting very concerned that she will become like mided with him if she continues to see him not going to church, not talking about God, not caring about salvation, etc..., Any opinions on this???