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This is something I've been studying, and I thought I'd share what I've learned with you. Perhaps I'll even be able to answer some of your questions, and allow you to grow to an even closer relationship with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Over the next ten weeks, I will be updating this post (Or topic, if it turns out to be too long), and adding a new question as well as the answer to that question. I welcome any questions/comments, but please keep them constructive and sincere... So... Without further ado, I give you:

QUESTION NUMBER 1:
Does God Exist?
 

Answer: I pose this question first, because it is foundational. It is perhaps the most important because all other questions will eventually lead back to and either support or go against what I tell you here.

It is important to understand that we all have had doubts at some point or another about the existence of God. Even those of us who are Christians are not immune to such things. Discussing this very issue, my friend (A pastor's son), Jesse Gaskill spoke of a time when doubt entered his mind, when his mother lay sick on a hospital bed. She was not expected to live. When my father was killed a couple years ago, I too had my doubts for a time. If God exists, if He is loving and good, then how can He allow suffering and death? This is another question I will pose and attempt to answer later.

Through many discussions and through my own studies, I have seen many reasons given for people to doubt the existence of God: Evil people, moral relativism (I.E. There is no 'absolute right and wrong'), evolution, lack of scientific evidence, or not being able to detect God with our five senses, natural disasters (such as hurricane Katrina), death and suffering (Such as the issues Jesse dealt with), and the fact that there are literally hundreds of religions world-wide which all claim to have 'the truth.'

However, I myself have also come across and experienced many reasons to believe:

1) Miracles. Even if you do not believe in miracles, the fact of the matter is they can and do happen. Jesse's mother was not expected to live. Most of the doctors had been ready to give up on her. Nevertheless, she miraculously survived. There was no explanation for it. A similar situation happened with my uncle Mike, who had gone into a coma and was thought to be dead. But miraculously, he recovered (The doctors were astounded) and lived for another six months! Life itself is a miracle... Whether you believe in Evolution or Intelligent Design, there is simply NO CONCRETE, PROVEN-BEYOND-THE-SHADOW-OF-A-DOUBT ANSWER for how life came to be.

2) There is also the teleological argument (In layman's terms, 'the complexity of creation' argument). Simply put, (and this will not become an evolution debate. This is merely one reason I have listed among many) if evolution were true, there would be no way for us to see the complexity of the world around us as we do. The human body is a marvelous thing, capable of repairing itself without special machinery, the mind quicker than the fastest of supercomputers, with reasoning skill and deeper emotions than any other living creature. On a smaller level, there is the flagellum, the whip-like propeller used by many cells (such as sperm cells). This is made up of approx. thirty-five interlocking parts, which scientists agree could not have come together on their own over time, as taking away one component would render the flagellum absolutely useless. If something is useless, according to evolutionary theory, it is gotten rid of.

3)There is the cosmological, or KALAM argument. This argument is relatively simple. Everything that begins to exist has a cause. The universe began to exist, therefore the universe had a cause. Most scientists agree that the universe could not have been spontaneously generated. It could not have created itself. Therefore, it had to have a cause, and the most logical explanation is A CREATOR.

4) Finally, the forth argument I will make here is the moral argument. The fact of the matter is that each person knows the difference between right and wrong. That knowledge is innate. If there were no God, there would be no right and wrong. This goes back to the moral relativism argument of the atheist. They say that the only standard of right and wrong is the standard set up by society and culture... HOWEVER, if you look at history, you will find (though there have been exceptions if you look hard enough) NO culture has approved of 'murder'. No culture has approved of incest. NO culture has approved of homosexuality. And these are just SOME examples that have been consistent through the human race's entire history! That alone should convince anyone that there IS a right and wrong, and that we all know what it is, even if we refuse to admit it.

I will pause right here to make a statement. Our science and reasoning CANNOT prove God's existence beyond the shadow of a doubt. If they could, that would be putting God within that proverbial box, and therefore be making them greater than God. However, since God is greater than our science and reasoning, God exists OUTSIDE of these bounds. And so in the end, as close as science and logic can get us, there is going to be some measure of faith required. You believe God exists? You have faith. You believe God does not exist? You have faith... Because to have faith, simply put is to believe in what we do not know for sure, believing in what we cannot necessarily prove or detect.

(CONTINUED ON NEXT POST)

Perhaps some of you on my side of the argument (God does exist) are saying, "Wait a minute! We only have to look in the Bible for proof of God's existence!" Fine... Let us go to the Bible. Turn with me if you would to Genesis 1:1 (For those of you without Bibles, I will use a direct quote).

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. -Gen. 1:1-2

Hm... This is interesting. The Bible does not start by trying to prove God's existence at all. It merely assumes that God exists... Let us go to the New Testament. Turn with me if you would to John 1:1-4 (again, I will use a direct quote for those of you without Bibles).

Quote:
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"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made. In Him was life, and that life is the light of men. -John 1:1-4
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Hm... Again, the Bible does not try to prove God's existence. It merely starts by assuming His existence. So how are we supposed to do it, dear brothers and sisters, when God Himself did not make the attempt? The answer is simple. We are not. Our job is to proclaim the truth, and from there let the Spirit of God work as He wills.

Now for all this writing, I have probably still not answered your questions about the existence of God... The shadow of doubt still hangs, and it seems like I have only been ranting and wasting your valuable time... And there is a good reason... You already know, deep down, what the answer is, whether you admit it or not. You know whether God exists...

Turn with me if you would to Romans 1:18-24.


Quote:
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The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world, God's invisible qualities- his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what was made so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God, nor gave thanks to Him, but in their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for corruptible images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. Therefore, God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped created things rather than the Creator- Who is forever praised. Amen. -Romans 1:18-24
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So what does all this mean? Am I some charismatic teacher condemning all mankind and threatening all with eternal condemnation? Of course not... It is not my place to hand out that kind of judgment. However, let me paraphrase a bit here...

All of us are created in God's image. We all have some form of relationship with our creator, even if it is not a saving relationship. We ALL know deep down. But according to verse 18, we suppress the truth, because we do not like what the truth reveals.

According to verse nineteen, it is evident to ALL of us, deep down. We are all searching for something to hold on to... We all have a void in our lives and hearts that we will try to fill... That is why so many turn to drugs, alcohol, sexual immorality, material possessions... And the list goes on and on... Because we all have a void in our lives that we try to fill... But nothing can truly fill it, dear friends, but God... No not one... No not one...

I will answer other questions as the weeks go on (though not in this particular order)
2) Which is right? Evolution? Or Creation?
3) If God is loving, why would He send people to hell?
4) If God is loving, why is there evil in the world?
5)If God is loving, why is there death?
6) Is Jesus any different from Muhammad or Buddha?

There are four more... But I'll list them later (I can't remember them all now.  )

ok, I understand everything you're saying, that life had to originate somewhere, but with all due respect can you tell me in understandable terms where God came from?

thanks

God is eternal, everlasting. He is, always was and always will be. God has no beginning and no ending.

PR is right, Wondering. Remember, as I pointed out in the KALAM argument (I think it was the third argument I presented). Everything that begins to exist, has a cause. HOWEVER, God did not begin to exist. God always was. He exists outside the bounds of space and time, outside the bounds of our human logic and reasoning and science... God is not subject to the same restrictions we are. Since God does not have a beginning, since he is the creator of time, then God does not need to have a cause. I hope it's cleared up somewhat. :)

Ahem... And now onto [font size=5]QUESTION NUMBER TWO:[/font] WHICH IS RIGHT? EVOLUTION? OR CREATION?

Another important, foundational question is that of origins. What you believe about the origin of manking is innevitably going to have a major effect on how you view the world, and the issues that we deal with in it. But which is right? Is the world just some random accident? The result of pure chaos? Or is there something greater at work, an intelligent, loving Creator? (I'd ask this not to get into a debate, unless you'd like to debate with me through the PM system, just to keep this ON-TOPIC).

I cannot count how many times I've debated this subject, on different mediums, internet, in person, phone... And the list goes on. Before we begin, let me define terms to make this CLEAR.
SCIENCE: Science is knowledge gained from observable facts, that which we can demonstrate through observation and experimentation.
PHILOSPHY: Philosphy is a general school of knowledge, usually highly speculative, but many times of great relevence.

The evidence in favor of evolution varies from person to person. However, some popular sets of data that I've run across are:
Java man (The supposed 'missing link')
Big Bang theory?
Fossil Record
Contemporary evidence (insects becomming resistant to certain pesticides, etc.)
Darwin himself.

The problem is that Evolution IS NOT A SCIENCE! That's right. In fact, evolution is a philosophy, because it starts with a basic premis that there is nothing else other than observable matter. This is HIGHLY speculative, and has never been, nor can it be proven. The evolutionist largely assums this to be true BY FAITH.

Let's take a closer look at each of these supposed 'evidences', one at a time.

First off, let's look at Java Man, or the supposed missing link. This according to Lee Stroble, an investigative reporter from Chicago:


So that is one pillar of evolution that has been knocked down.. The fact of the matter is that there IS no missing link that has ever been found. This is even admitted in text books.

Most evolutionists would have you believe that Evolution is based on "Fact, not Faith," and that Christianity is based on "Faith, not fact." In the textbook "Biology", written by Miller and Levine, there are many examples that show their support of evolutionis based on faith, not science.

(CONTINUED IN NEXT POST)

Miller and Levine ADMIT that the fossil record is incomplete, yet they have FAITH that someday we will find the missing pieces and they will be proven correct. Their belief is based on faith, not actual data.

Let's spend a short time on the Big Bang theory now... There isn't much to be said here. In fact, most scientists, whether they are in favor of Evolution or Creation tend to support the 'Big Bang' theory.

Evolutionary Big Bang holds that the universe began with a sudden, catastrophic flash of light and energy... Hm... That sounds familiar. Look with me if you would at the Bible, the book of Genisis, chapter 1, verse 3. (Direct quote here for those without Bibles)



This is perhaps THE ONE AREA that evolutionists and creationists are able to agree. Both scientific data and the Bible support the Big Bang. HOWEVER, what causes that HAS been a matter of dissent, and that goes back to the question of whether God exists.

The Fossil Record:
Another major pillar for Evolution has been the Fossil Record, which is thought to show an upward progression of species from simplicity and chaos to complexity and order through the ages. HOWEVER! This IS NOT THE CASE.

Concerning the fossil record, Miller and Levine make the following statement:

Miller and Levine ADMIT that they don't have an answer in the form of scientific data for human evolution, yet BY FAITH they believe it.

Refering to a possible explanation of human evolution (which was illustrated in their textbook by a large graph showed their supposed 'evolutionary history' of mankind, but with a question mark in the middle, they said:


Again, Miller and Levine admit that they can't explain human evolution, yet they HAVE FAITH that their theory will someday be proven true.

One anthropologist said that because of the lack of fossil evidence for prehistoric humans, trying to reconstruct the supposed relationship between anscestors and descendants is like trying to reconstruct the plot of "War and Peace" by using random pages from the book.

Said Henry Gee, chief science writer for Nature: The intervals of time that seperate fossils are so huge that we cannot say anything definite about their possible connection through anscestry and descent." As a result, he said, the conventional picture of human evolution is "a completely human invention created after the fact, shaped to accord with human predjudices." And then, if that wasn't enough, he added this clincher, "To take a line of fossils and claim that they represent a lineage is not a scientific hypothesis that can be tested, but an assertion that carries the same validity as a bedtime story- amusing, perhaps even instructive, but not scientific."

Further, the true evidence of the fossil record, WHEN LOOKED AT BY OBJECTIVE SCIENCE, actually points AWAY from evolution. Rather than seeing upward progression of species overtime, as we should if Evolution was true, we see the sudden appearance of fully formed, irreducibly complex organisms at one particular point in time.

That fossils even exist is evidence not of evolution, but of a global catastrophe which quickly buried whole creatures under layers of mud and silt. You probably know what I'm getting at.. Yes... The facts point to a global FLOOD. And this flood is not merely supported by the Bible, but rather, variations of the same tail are preserved in many different ancient civilizations' texts... Such as the Gilgamesh epic of Babylon.

So what is my point?

We are led to believe that evolution is 'fact', and that ALL of the evidence reaffirms the theory of evolution. However, THIS IS NOT TRUE! Evolution HAS NOT been proven true. People have merely accepted on FAITH that someday it will be proven.

Faith IS NOT BAD. It is good and necessary. However, it is HYPOCRITICAL for scientists to ignore God because it involves some level of faith, while they place their faith in a theory that has yet to be proven.

And let me take just a short time with these last two. The first of which is 'contemporary evidence'. The problem here is that the evolutionist is mixing terms. When asked to present proof for darwinian evolution, he points to an example of MICRO-EVOLUTION. Yes, things change overtime. This HAS been proven by science. However, what has been proven is MICRO-EVOLUTION, or descent with modification, but not specitation, or the changing and appearance of new species. Evolution with specitation, or MACRO-Evolution, HAS NEVER BEEN OBSERVED. In fact, we find it actually prevented by such things as reproductive isolation.

Reproductive isolation, for those who do not know, is the most objective, least subjective way to determine the difference between species. A horse and a donkey are different species. They breed and produce a mule. HOWEVER, that mule is STERILE. It CANNOT reproduce. Evolution is prevented.

And as for Darwin, he himself admitted that he was wrong. He said, "I am quite consciously aware my speculations are outside the bounds of true science." And yet people continue to follow the theory he himself admitted to be wrong. Friends, that's not reasonable faith... That's BLIND faith... A faith based mainly on either ignorance or arrogence. BLIND FAITH is NEVER a good thing.

In short, let me quote Sherlock Holmes. "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." If Evolution is impossible, the only other reasonable explanation is a loving, intelligent, all-powerful Designer. And the point of this whole thing friends? That designer is God.

ADMINS: I Hope you will not consider this advertising, as I add the following link ONLY to lend credence to my argument, and to show that it is not only Christians which are skeptical about the validity of Evolution, but rather MANY objective scientists.

http://www.discovery.org/articleFiles/PDFs/100ScientistsAd.pdf (http://www.discovery.org/articleFiles/PDFs/100ScientistsAd.pdf)

LittlePilgrim,

Early in my conversion, I recognized thru the study of the Word, that the Bible is a history book, written not only about Gods dealings with mankind, but more specifically with a people, whom he says He has chosen unto Himself, those that are spoken of are identified as a nation called Israel.

Their history confirms that there is a God.

There is no other nation in the history of nations that is like theirs, and they would not have risen from the ashes of history as a nation after nearly 2000 years of being scattered throughout the world in fullfillment of Gods Word to take their place among the nations of the world, if there were no God.

They are the apple of His eye, and He will fight for them in the end, and in the latter days they as a nation will turn to Him and be saved in ONE DAY.

We are living in those days, and only those who have no interest in the truth deny these things.

Science never has and never will prove the existance of God, because those who study it, have already failed to recognize the existance of Him, by simply admiring and considering His creation.

By the time a so called scientist begings studying science, he has already made up his mind concerning God, and if he doesn't believe, he will never see the trees because of the forest.

He says to all would be scientists;

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


                                                   Job 38:4-7


Anyhow I enjoyed reading your posts.

I agree. Science cannot be used to prove God's existence. HOWEVER, it is like a building block. It can lead one either away from God, or in the case of men like Lee Stroble, Viggo Olson (a man with a whole raft of letters after his name: M.D, M.S, Litt. D., D.H., F.A.C.S., F.I.C.S., and D.T.M. & H.) and many others, it can lead toward God. Science and faith ARE compatible... But one has to look at the evidence objectively, and one will see how it fits perfectly with God's word... His History Book, His Love Letter... True science doesn't prove God, but like a prosecutor in a court room, we can certainly use cumulative evidence to build a good case. :)

LittlePilgrim,

True ,what you said, however the final step is taken by faith in HIS LIVING WORD, and God who knows the reigns of the heart, gives the faith by grace (to all, who come to Him in obedience to the comand to repentance) necessary to believe in whom would never believe of their own volition, science or not.

The willingness to obey the command, reveals a degree of trust in God and what He has said in Jis Word concerning sin and the sinner.

The case needs to made from the prespective of a Holy God vs's an ungodly sinner, only this will reveal the true condition of the heart for change and either one will turn to God or away from Him.

Only God can change hearts, decisions are made usually by the intellect, but this one must be made with the heart, because undestanding with the heart reveals a hanged person.


Hey, this is a good subject, you've raised.

God Bless, keep it up.

LittlePilgrim and Arpel,

I agree with you that Evolution cannot be proven, that it is only theory, and that just like religion it takes faith to believe in it.  But if both of you are admitting that science cannot prove the existence of God, why should I believe in a God??  You say that this creation couldn’t have come from nothing, so how do we know God exists other than creation itself?  

If one day walking down the street we happen to meet, in a sidewalk conversation how could you prove to me the existence of God?

You also made mention that only God can change hearts, but I would like to ask how do you account for those who change from a bad, degraded degree to that of something good and respectable in society, and this person changed their heart without a God?  I think we all might know someone who has done this without a God.

thank you

Quite a few questions. I'll answer to the best of my ability, and hopefully someone else will help if things are not clear.

First, you asked why you should believe in God if Science cannot prove God's exsitence beyond the shadow of a doubt. But as I pointed out above, Science CAN make a good case, as can history, archaeology, and yes, even paleontology, if one studies the evidence objectively. Also, keep in mind that faith in evolution is (because of all the evidence to the contrary) a BLIND faith, which is a faith that is based either on ignorance or arrogence...

Secondly, you asked why, since Creation came from nothing, God can come from nothing. I think the problem is that you're overcomplicating things. Remember Kalam...
1) Everything THAT BEGINS TO EXIST has a cause.
2) The universe began to exist
3) Therefore, the universe has a cause.

GOD on the other hand, did NOT begin to exist... He just always was. He didn't come from anywhere, or nowhere. He just was... and is... and is to come... That's the difference. Creation had a beginning. But God did not.

Thirdly, you asked how I would prove God's existence to you. Please, reread my first couple posts for the answers there... I think that's clear enough.

Lastly, you asked about heart change. My answer to you is thus... NO ONE can have a change of heart toward the better seperate from God. Apart from God, we are capable of NOTHING good. (Someone please help me with a Scripture reference here). That that person was able to change is an example of the common grace God has gifted to ALL mankind, regardless of their beliefs about Him... Whether one admits it or not, that we are capable of any good, is a work of God...

Hi wondering,

I do believe that we have met before.


Without God there is nothing, without God we are nothing, without God there is no purpose, without God we are doomed to eternal suffering.


Is that not sufficient? Nothing as miraculous and as complicated as life itself could possibly be without God. All we have to do is open our eyes and see it.


No one truly changes their heart without the aid of God. They may change their actions due to changing their mind about what is acceptable to others around them but it is not a true change of their heart.



Do you want a change of heart? Are you ready to accept Jesus Christ as your Saviour? There is a God.  He came to us in the flesh as Jesus Christ who died for our sins on the cross and you can know him by acknowledging that you are a sinner, believing in Jesus and asking Him to forgive you of those sins and asking Him to come into your heart.

Won't you take that step to know Him today?

The Bible declares, The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the worldï Psalm 19:1-4. Looking at the stars, understanding the vastness of the universe, observing the wonders of nature, seeing the beauty of a sunset  all of these things point to a Creator God. If these were not enough, there is also evidence of God in our own hearts. Ecclesiastes 3:11 tells us, He has also set eternity in the hearts of men There is something deep down in our beings that recognizes that there is something beyond this life and someone beyond this world. We can deny this knowledge intellectually, but God's presence in us and through us is still there. Despite all of this, the Bible warns us that some will still deny Gods existence, The fool says in his heart, There is no God. Psalm 14:1.  Since over 98% of people throughout history, in all cultures, in all civilizations, on all continents believe in the existence of some kind of God there must be something (or someone) causing this belief.

Bible tells us that people will reject the clear and undeniable knowledge of God and instead believe a lie. Romans 1:25 declares, They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator  who is forever praised. Amen. The Bible also proclaims that people are without excuse for not believing in God, For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - His eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse Romans 1:20.

People claim to not believe in God because it is not scientific or because there is no proof. The true reason is that once people admit that there is a God, they also must realize that they are responsible to God and in need of forgiveness from God Romans 3:23; 6:23. If God exists, then we are accountable for our actions to Him. If God does not exist, then we can do whatever we want without having to worry about God judging us.  I believe that is why evolution is so strongly clung to by many in our society to give people an alternative to believing in a Creator God. God exists and ultimately everyone knows that He exists. The very fact that some attempt so aggressively to disprove His existence is in fact an argument for His existence.

How do I know God exists? I know God exists because I speak to Him every day. I do not audibly hear Him speaking back to me, but I sense His presence, I feel His leading, I know His love, I desire His grace. Things have occurred in my life that have no other possible explanation other than God. God has so miraculously saved me and changed my life that I cannot help but to acknowledge and praise His existence. None of these arguments in and of themselves can persuade anyone who refuses to acknowledge what is so plainly clear. In the end, Gods existence must be accepted by faith Hebrews 11:6. Faith in God is not a blind leap into the dark, it is safe step into a well-lit room where 98% of people of this forum are already standing. Will you be one of them?

Resting in the hands, of the Lord.
Bob

Deuteronomy 11:12 A land which the LORD thy God careth for: the eyes of the LORD thy God are always upon it, from the beginning of the year even unto the end of the year.

Ok, ok, I’ll concede that there seems to be no other logical explanation for the existence of creation other than an intelligent being creating it.  I also agree that there had to be a first cause to birth our universe, due to the laws of cause and effect; even a child can understand these things.  For scientists to ignore these truths is idiotic.

But I also wonder that if there truly is an intelligent being that you call God, why did he create us?  What is the purpose for human beings?  And please don’t give me the same old story that I’m special to God and God loves all of us.  I want to know why a God felt that he needed to create lowly human beings who suffer for 70 years and then die for nothing.  It seems to me that its senseless to create beings who live only a short time compared to time itself, most of us suffering all our lives in some degree or another.  Please tell me why a so-called loving God would do this.

Pastor Roger, you shouldn’t believe that we’ve met before because we haven’t; I don’t know you.  And why do you call yourself Pastor?  Are you a Pastor of a church right now?

I hope you all don’t mind me asking these questions.

thanks everyone

You can read the answers in these links, on Christians Unite.

Topic: God protects his own/Tsunami (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=8240)

Why God Allowed The Tsunami (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=6486)

These are a good start for you, wondering.

Resting in the hands, of the Lord.
Bob

Matthew 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

I don't think anyone minds, Wondering. These are legitimate questions that every searching person has. That is one of the reasons I began this thread.

Now... To answer the question, God did not design us to die at all. Man was originally perfect in body and mind, designed by God, in His image, to rule over the earth, and to worship God Almighty.

Death entered the picture when Adam and Eve were tempted and deceived by the devil, Satan (also called the serpant). They disobeyed God, even though He had warned them they would die if they did so.

Romans tells us, "For the wages of Sin is death, but the gift of God is life everlasting through Jesus Christ, our Lord."

It was not God's will that man should die, nor that he should be doomed to be seperated from Him for eternity. And so God sent a savior, Jesus Christ, to die on a roman cross, in the most horrible way imagineable, and to pay the penalty for our sin... The penalty that we could never pay in full.

And then three days later, He rose again, proving His power over death. And not only this but in doing so, He gave us the chance to live forever with Him. John 3:16-17 tell us: 'For God so loved the world, that He sent His one and only Son, that whosoever should believe in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent His son into the world, NOT to condemn the world, but so that the world THROUGH HIM might be saved."

(Emphasis mine).

I hope this helps. And try reading the threads Dream Weaver gave as well. All it takes, my friend, is simply to believe that Christ came, born of the virgin Mary, that He died on the cross to save all of us from our sins, and that He rose again on the third day, defeating Death and evil once and for all... The battle is won... Now we only await for the Victor to come. :)

"Once, the darkness seemed so endless, till one flame appeared in the night... Glowing from a lowly stable, Lamp of Life, Shining so bright... Dazzling! Splendor! And the heavens rejoice with a song!....

We have heard the wondrous story, the Word now in flesh here to dwell... We have seen the Father's glory, Jesus Christ, Immanuel..." -Randy Vader, Jay Rouse.

Hello wondering,  Please let me explain myself.

The reason why science cannot prove their is a God, is because of the parameters established by the laws made for the study of science.

You see wondering, the study of science is limited (that is to say, they are supposed to be limited) to the Laws of Thermodynamics however, the study of the science of evolution is made through theories outside of these laws by speculation, supposition, pre suppositions, opinions and contemplated analysis;  it is not tested in a laboratory to prove the theorem, this is why the hypothesis of evolution is unproven after gemerations of being taught as fact in the institutions of higher learning, on the contrary the recent discoveries in our generation have disproved many assumptions and myths postulated by the so called eminent proponents and teachers of the evolutionary theory, so that today a new teaching is taking its place, that of intelligent design.

Those honest scientists who will admit evolution may be flawed are begining to gravitate towards this new teaching, but they are reluctant to credit the intelligence to The Creator; so they continue in darkness grappling with the question;  Where did man really come from?    

This darkness is spoken of in this way by The Creator;

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2 Cor 4:3-4

or,

The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble. Prov 4:19



I never said the things created could never prove the existence of to the contrary, the creation confirms the handywork of The Creator.  It only confirms it, it cannot prove it.

Let me explain this to you in simple terms;

If the company that made airplanes obtained and took all of the necessary parts and laid them out on the ground in a great field, no matter how good the weather got in a millions years, the parts would never assemble themselves together to make ab airplane that can be flown.

Even if you took a living dog and placed him in a sterile liquifying machine and then, after scrambling him left him in this sterile environment, the DNA that makes up the living dog could never reassemble this dog again, so that one could say this is a dog.

I ask you why, is this not possible?

You know why, because when you rearrange DNA (the building blocks which make up all living things) to that degree the thing dies.  Only the giver of life can cause it to ever be reassembled into a living organism.

By the way, God has promised to do this very thing so He can judge mankind, He will resurrect men at the last day so that they may receive in their bodies what they sowed in their bodies Daniel 12:1-2 and 2 Cor 5:10, if you would like to read  more about this read Revelation chapters 20 and 21.

The question still remains, Why won't the scrambled dog re assemble itself?

Surely, All the ingredients necessary to make a dog are their.

Yet scientist who hypothezise this false theory, have some believing that life originated in a pool of primordial soup, and from that their imation took off, so that today without so much as proof of a missing link, they have built a family tree for man from the great apes.

Though I have seen some people in my lifetime that resemble chimps, they are far from being decendants of one, it's a hard one to swallow, yet they teach it as holy writ of evolution.



I could never prove anything to you, concerning God, because if you believe evolution you have already rejected the thought that He exists, inspite of the fact, you see His Creation with your own eyes.  The things visible are the proof.

Now for those who have not rejected a Creator out of hand, an are seeking the Creatorl

ultimately ,He must be received by FAITH, since He is a Spirit, and them that worship Him, must do so spiritually.

Notice what His word says;

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.    Heb 11:1-3

No one has seen God, yet He has revealed Himself to those that diligently have sought Him throughout the generations and has confirmed the promises which He made to Abraham and His Seed, and that Seed is Jesus, who died for your sin of unbelief.

In a nut shell here it is;

The bad news first;

All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, because of Adams sin of disobedience. we humans are born spiritually dead, with a sin nature, we are unable to do anything about this other than to heap sin upon sin all our lives before God.    See Rom 3:23 and Rom 3:10-18

God is calling sinners to repentance in this age, because He has appointed a Judge who will judge righteouly all men, He will pardon those who want to be pardoned but will not acquit the guilty, those who have no interest in a pardon.  Read Acts 17:29-30

Now the Good News;

Rom 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

John 3:16-17
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Rom 10:9-11
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

This the gospel, if you believe this you can possess eternal life, if you reject it, where else and to whom, can you appeal the coming judgment.




You mean people can change their lives from bad to good, this is true, but this has nothing to do with God, your own claim herein confirms it

"this person changed their heart without a God",

and I agree with this, it appears that this can be done, smokers quit smoking, drunks give up drinking, addicts give up drug use, but what does this have to with God, they still swear and shake their fist at Him.

What gain is there in this, eternally speaking, hey all will still be judged, the question still remains;  

What have you done with Jesus?


Yes he does, and that promises is made to whom ever comes to Him with a broken and a contrite heart, notice;

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Rom 10:13



Isaih 57:15-16
For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones. For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.

Ezekiel 18:31-32
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Ezekiel 36:26-27
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Yes sir,  Man needs a heart operation, and only God can perform this one.

This is the heart operation I am talking about.

Hey, it has been great sharing with you.

God Bless you with wisdom.

Amen ARPEL,

We must never pass up a chance to witness to those that obiviously do not know our Lord and Saviour even if we think it is of no use. We never know when that persons eyes may open to the truth. Even if we were not successful at least we planted the seed that may grow full bloom.

Yes Pastor Roger   I agree


No matter what happens we work to make Him known, and that can only happen by expounding His Word, which will make it all come to pass.

The Lord Bless You

Amen Brothers!

The Gospel of the Grace of God is never wasted. I am 100% positive that God will always use it. I give thanks that users and guests will have no difficulty in finding the GOOD NEWS and God's Word on Christians Unite.

We have thousands of readers every day. Further, Christians Unite distributes Godly material to thousands of Christian Web sites around the world every day. I pray that Christians Unite remains a BEACON OF LIGHT in a dark and dying world and that the hearts of the readers will be softened to receive God's Word.

Dear Heavenly Father, we pray that every Christian will hear your voice and yield to your will in the work you have for each of us to do. LORD, help us to do your will in joy and appreciation for what YOU have already done for us. Father, help us do Your work in a manner that only YOU receive all GLORY, HONOR, AND PRAISE. LORD, we ask for guidance, wisdom, and strength to stand and continue to serve you, regardless of attacks by the devil. Father, we ask these things in the Precious name of our Lord and Saviour, JESUS CHRIST.  Amen


Love in Christ,
Tom

Psalms 1:1-3 NASB  How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, Nor stand in the path of sinners, Nor sit in the seat of scoffers! But his delight is in the law of the LORD, And in His law he meditates day and night. He will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water, Which yields its fruit in its season And its leaf does not wither; And in whatever he does, he prospers.

Titus 3:4-7 NASB  But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

blackwywpeas,

Hi, and thank you the good word.

I am convinced it will all happen just as Has said (ordained) it.

He is in control, and will rule and overule in the affairs a men, 'till the heavens depart as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island will be move out of their places.

For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.  1 Cor 15:24-28



God Bless,