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Terrorism is evil. And evil can only be overcome by the love of God (Romans 12:21; Ephesians 6:10-20). Therefore, only the love of God can break the cycle of hate and revenge, and stop terrorism. God’s love is seen in Jesus’ passion and death. When we offended Him and killed Him, He did not sue us or take revenge or kill us. Instead, He the victim paid the price for our sins by His own life (Matthew 26:28).  In order to stop terrorism, therefore, those who are reborn in Christ’s, like Christ, must impart Christ’s life of unconditional love to the terrorist.  We can impart Christ’s love to them only by showing them Christ’s sacrificial love in our acts (Matthew 5:16). We should therefore, assist the terrorists in over coming the hate in their heart. If they are suffering from poverty we should give them humanitarian help, without any string attached.  This will build trust between the two sides. Then, it will be possible to negotiate a just solution for problems that separate us from them. Only God (who is love) is truly just (Matthew 19:17). True justice therefore, is love. A just solution is therefore, found only in love. A just solution, therefore, would be to give more to the other side than they demand (Luke 6:29-30), and demand less for one’s own side.  Such an attitude will further increase the trust between the two sides and bring peace.  Furthermore, in the long run both sides will gain; because, absence of war will bring major savings of life and resources.  The solution outlined herein, may not sound very practical, especially if there is centuries of animosity and bloodshed.  However, because God is love, we must never underestimate the power of love.  

arunangelo,

What you suggest is an excellant idea and does work unless you are working with direct evil. We (the U.S.) has given a lot of money and aid to these people. They have taken that aid and still continue on their path of destruction because they have an agenda and don't care about us who they deem to be infidel dogs.

That love has not stopped Satan because he has rejected that love. It is the same with the terrorists. They reject all love and continue on a destructive path, destroying everyone and everything in their path.

Romans12:19. "Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good."


The world does not put this in to practice and most Christians seem to follow the world when it comes to attitudes toward evil.

I wonder the outcome if this was put to practice? It could only be good as it is of God.

ollie

The U.S. has given food and medical aid to our enemies long before the use of our Military strength. Many of our Soldiers and citizens have died in an attempt to provide aid to our enemies. Most people, especially the media, does not want to look at these things. Like the enemy, all they want to do is see the cruelty and harshness of this country and its Soldiers, the harshness of war. I have been there first hand and have seen these things with my own eyes.

There are evil forces in this world that no matter what one does they will reject the Lord and those that want to be good towards them. Many people want to believe that Jesus taught us to be complete pacifists, to never lift a hand in defense of ourselves. This is simply not true.

I agree that we must not hate our enemies and that we must do good towards them for we are not battling against flesh and blood. This does not mean that we are to stand there while they have their way. It does not mean that we cannot protect ourselves.



 

Part one

I have been asked numerous times if it is right for a Christian to be a combat soldier, to kill in combat. In fact this is a question that I had to ask for myself before I decided to join the military.

Nehemiah, a great prophet of God said, "Neh 4:14 And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. "

Some people support the belief that as a Christian we are to be pacifists. Using scripture such as "Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." and " Luk 6:29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. " to support their belief. Based on these verses and others such as Luk 3:14 and Mat 26:52 they stand by the belief that the New Testament teachings are of pacificism.

When the verse (Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.)is taken by itself it does appear that Jesus is teaching complete pacifism. If we look at this verse and study its complete meaning we find that He is talking about civil matters between two individuals. The statement "smite thee on thy right cheek" was used in that time as an indication of an applied insult between two people. Not a physical threat to do bodily harm.

Reading further into the next verse (Mat 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.) we can see that Jesus is talking about civil matters, matters of the legal process and how to avoid staying out of courts.

If we are to apply this to matters of war then is when we have people saying that the Bible contradicts itself or that God has changed. There are no contradictions in scriptures there are misunderstandings in mans mind of them. We know that neither are true because God never changes:

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

In regards to Luk 3:14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

Jesus is telling the Soldier to be a good soldier, not one that is using unnecessary force or wrongly accusing someone. After all He did not tell the soldier to quit being a soldier which is evidenced by His statement "be content with your wages". The soldiers at that time were being offered a bounty in addition to their wages for each person that they brought in that was in defiance of the laws. Many of them were beating up and wrongly accusing individuals in order to collect this extra money. This is what Jesus was talking about, not pacifism.

In the verse "Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." it was in reference of going against the local authorities and in reference to stopping the soldiers from taking Jesus. Jesus knew what was required of Him and that such an action would prevent His going to the cross as is evidenced in the verses that followed this one.

part two

Mat 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
Mat 26:54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

Complete pacifism is a non biblical position. Although being able to appeal to superficial arguments of conscience and quote the odd verse out of content - the whole spirit and thrust of pacifism is anti Christian. Pacifists may be sincere - but they are sincerely wrong.
A Christian, by definition, must be active - with his or her sleeves rolled up, being willing to get his hands dirty protecting the innocent, defending the defenceless and saving lives from unprovoked aggression. Christian love is not mere words and sentiments. True love shows itself in action. (1 John 3:18). If all Christians refuse to fight then it will leave the battle fields in the hands of men without a conscience.

Pacifism finds it's rots in HUMANISM. Despite some impressive but superficial Christian pretension, pacifism is humanism. In common with humanism, pacifism shares a false idea of man. It sees man as basically good. To the pacifist all people are just too good to kill. Neither rapists, murderers nor terrorists deserve to be stopped, in the view of the pacifist.
In contrast to this notion of people being basically good, the Bible teaches us that the heart of man is desperately wicked and deceitful;that they are quick to hurt and kill; they leave ruin and destruction wherever they go... everyone has sinned and is far away from God's saving presence. (Romans 3:15,23) Pacifists often display more concern for the aggressor than for the defender, more sympathy for the criminal than for his victim.

Our Lord Jesus may have been meek but He was never mild! His teaching was powerful, dynamic, direct and uncompromising. This tough carpenter from Nazareth was able to survive forty days fasting in the desert and forty lashes from the brutal Roman whip. He could walk hundreds of kilometers in the blazing heat of Palestine's inhospitable terrain and He could walk through a murderous mob with such a presence that no-one dared stop Him (Luke 4:28-30).
When Jesus saw how corrupt men were desecrating the temple with their money-grabbing greed, He made a whip, overturned their tables and drove them forcibly from God's House (Matthew 21:12-13).

Jesus told His disciples, "Luk 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

When Jesus returns to this world it will be as the conquering King of Kings and Lord of Lords. The Bible teaches us that the first time Jesus came as a Saviour - and all who turn from their sin and trust in Christ, following Him in obedience, are saved. But when Jesus comes again it will be as Judge - and all who have not repented and obeyed will be condemned and eternally punished. The Scripture warns us that when Jesus returns He will annihilate the forces of the false church and the Antichrist. We are told that rivers of blood will flow from the carnage of mankind's rebellion against Christ (Revelation 14:19-20).

"....... and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. (Revelation 19:11,15,16).

Pacifism also has an unrealistic view of society. The reality of this world is that it is a fallen world, inhabited by sinful mankind in rebellion against the Creator. Idealistic fantasies about a world of peace and Utopia without war are cruelly false and dangerously deceptive. In the Bible we are warned that those who say 'Peace! Peace!' when there is no peace are 'loathsome' false prophets (Jeremiah 6:!4; 8:11). Jesus warned us that 'wars and revolutions' would increase (Matthew 24:6,7; Luke 21:9,10). We are warned in the scriptures that 'While people are saying 'Peace and Safety', destruction will come on them suddenly.' (I Thessalonians 5:3)

'PEACE' seems to be the modern equivalent of Baal worship. There is an irrational worship of peace. This selfish materialistic age has made an idol out of peace. 'Peace at any price' inevitably leads to tyranny and destruction - the peace of a graveyard.

People say that war is hell - but often peace is worse. More people died in the peace following the revolution in CAMBODIA than died in the entire war before it. Three-milion Cambodians (40% of the population) were slaughtered by Pol Pot's Marxist Khmer Rouge in the 'peace' following 1975. In fact, more people have been tortured, maimed and massacred in times of peace than in times of war during the last century!

Have we become so soft, decadent and self-seeking that we are no longer willing to risk our lives for anything? Is nothing worth fighting for? Do we have nothing worth defending? Do we care so little for others that we're unwilling to risk anything for their protection? Are we so engrossed in watching videos, in 'wine, women and song' that we can no longer tell the difference between right and wrong? Or don't we even care?

For centuries Christians have believed that there were worse things than war. For our ancestors death in battle was not the worst thing that could happen to them. An eternity in hell was. They did not fear death. They feared God. They realised that death for the Christian is not fatal. They had a clear belief in eternal life. Principles were more important then personal safety. Duty, honor, country, family and God meant more to them than selfish desires for peace and safety. And thank God for that because the faith and freedoms we enjoy were won and preserved by their blood, sweat and sacrifices.

The wise Christian does not seek to selfishly avoid the problems of this world, but courageously steps out in faith to be part of the solution. We should recognize that sinful man needs to be restrained by laws and by force, that liberty needs to be defended, that our freedoms came through, and often need to be maintained by hard fighting.

If all Christians became pacifists, would all non-Christians also become pacifists?
Not likely.

It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism - while the wolf remains of a different opinion. The Bible declares: 'Blessed are the peacemakers' - Matthew 5:9. NOT blessed are the pacifists! You have to make peace. It takes action. For the pacifists hoping for worldwide peace - Jesus said: 'Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.' (Matthew 10:34)

Quote "ollie":

Following quotes are "Pastor Roger's"
Was that the "oil for food program"? Or was it the UN embargo on Iraq where they were hurting for food/medicine as a result? When America made it impossible for private citizens to send such to Iraq?

Very sad. I wonder how many were killed with weapons America supplied Iraq, under the Reagan administration, in its war with Iran?  

Very sad, that the news is so one sided toward the negative. Always has been. It sells.

Many of us have and will be again and again!

In the midst of all this evil one must maintain their walk in the Spirit.

Is there scriptural evidence of such in the New Testament?

ollie

Are we to base everything on the New testament alone and throw away the Old Testament?

Read my other two posts above for an answer to this question. It lists New Testament verses also.

I base things on faith in Christ and the grace God has given under Him. Which is what He has revealed as doctrine and teachings of Himself with power endowed from His Father, which is God, through the Holy Spirit. The old testament was a shadow of the true now found in/through Jesus Christ. It was a schoolmaster that led to Jesus Christ. The old testament is a great teacher.


Luke 3

 1. " Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,
 2.  Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
 3.  And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
 4.  As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
 5.  Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
 6.  And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
 7.  Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
 8.  Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
 9.  And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
 10.  And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?
 11.  He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.
 12.  Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?
 13.  And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you.
 14.  And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages."

I will read your posts. Did not have time today as they are so long. I was merely replying to your first reply to me.

Thank you,
ollie      :)

Amen, PR.  I think you're correct when you say that love does not work for evil.  It doesn't work on groups of evil people or even in the singular, child molesters, sociopaths, etc.  In all of these cases I think we must pray to be delivered from the evil (The Lord's Prayer), and to stay away from these situations.  I was just going to say that we must pray for them, but I'm wondering if it's a waste of time to pray for those who are evil.  Hummmm!  I know we are to pray for our enemies, but what if our enemies are evil and lost forever?  I'm wondering WWJD?  I seem to think He would rebuke them and walk away.

Grace and peace,
cris

Hope everything went well for JN.  I'm wondering if he's on his way back to San Fran. today.

Amen, Cris.

I think that Mat 5:44-48 applies here. We are taught to pray for our enemies. Does it do any good? That is up to them and the Lord. At least it does us good to pray for them. It keeps us from allowing hate to enter in so that we do not become hard hearted. It keeps us right with God in our hearts.



When Jesus was in the flesh, He did just that. He rebuked those that would not listen to Him (John 8 as one example) and left them knowing that He would deal with them much later in the end.

It is upto God to Judge who is evil.  All I know is that Jesus came for sinners.  We therefore, need to pray for them.

Yep, I agree it up to God to judge who is evil but God gave us a brain to judge with, too. We are made in His image and likeness.  Knowing someone is evil, or doing evil things, sends up red flags so we can protect ourselves.  We judge everyday, both things and people.  It's a God given natural ability and we should use what He gave us.  I didn't say to pervert that ability, but to use it accordingly.

Praying for our enemies, whether evil or not, IS for us just as you said, to keep from allowing hate to enter.  Can hate still enter us though, that is the question?  I think it can, but we must fight it, mortify the flesh, and rebuke it.  I have much more to say on this subject but I won't.  

Psalms 37

 1.  "Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.
 2.  For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.
 3.  Trust in the Lord, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.
 4.  Delight thyself also in the Lord: and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
 5.  Commit thy way unto the Lord; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.
 6.  And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.
 7.  Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.
 8.  Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.
 9.  For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth.
 10.  For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
 11.  But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
 12.  The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.
 13.  The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming.
 14.  The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation.
 15.  Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken.
 16.  A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked.
 17.  For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the Lord upholdeth the righteous.
 18.  The Lord knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.
 19.  They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.
 20.  But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
 21.  The wicked borroweth, and payeth not again: but the righteous sheweth mercy, and giveth.
 22.  For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.
 23.  The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord: and he delighteth in his way.
 24.  Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand.
 25.  I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.
 26.  He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed.
 27.  Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore.
 28.  For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
 29.  The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.
 30.  The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.
 31.  The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.
 32.  The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him.
 33.  The Lord will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged.
 34.  Wait on the Lord, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.
 35.  I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree.
 36.  Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found.
 37.  Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace.
 38.  But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.
 39.  But the salvation of the righteous is of the Lord: he is their strength in the time of trouble.
 40.  And the Lord shall help them, and deliver them: he shall deliver them from the wicked, and save them, because they trust in him."[/b]

Some of David's thoughts on attitude toward evil and the wicked.

ollie

Thank you Ollie for posting that.  Those are beautiful, uplifting, and hopeful words of wisdom.

Ollie -
I absolutely love Psalms 37.  
31.  The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.

As far as stopping terrorists - NUKE 'EM.  >:(   ;D
The heat flash they feel during detonation is nothing compared to the heat they're in danger of feeling in the hereafter.  

Terrorists are evil.  They aren't 'freedom fighters'.  I believe in good vs. evil.  Jesus didn't ignore evil.  Jesus killed evil (via running it off a cliff, for instance).  Jesus still kills evil with HIS shead Blood.

God means for man to kill evil - not analize it and coexist with it.  If that's 'hate speach' then I'm guilty of being hateful.  I hate terrorist's actions.  

Hmmmmm...... this is a good one. I'll relate a story I heard during a sermon that the preacher stated was true.

A woman was home alone while her husband was working. A man with a rep for being quite violent busted in and proceeded to rape her. She didn't forcibly resist as she felt that he would kill her. Well, he was going to kill her anyway cuz that was his nature. But when he was done, she preached to him the Gospel. I can't remember the exact words she said, (long time ago I heard this), but the "killer" told her that she was lucky because it was her Jesus that saved her from being killed.

The guy got caught and convicted of the crime and sent to jail. So the woman (victim) AND her husband proceeded to minister to this man in jail. Eventually he became born again, was released from jail, and this forgiving couple took him into their home!!!!

Now in the other side of the coin. If ANYBODY makes an attempt to do harm to my wife, you better make sure I'm not in the vicinity. Cuz I'll break your bones to get you off and away from my wife. You see, I have a covenant with her, and that covenant says I protect her.

Now I'll still love you, and I'll even pray for your healing or your resurrection from the dead, but don't be touching my wife! And the same goes for my children.

But notice in the above example, the ministering took place AFTER the outlaw was incarcerated. So I say lock them up first, THEN minister Christ to them.

Along the stopping terrorism line...
I noted that a US Representative from Colorado actually called for the destruction of Mecca if Islamofascists set off a nuke in the USA.

Now - I know that in an earlier post in this thread I said "nuke 'em", but a day or so I read a comment on another website that made the point/asked the question -

"If destroying Mecca is justified because of the actions of some muslims, wouldn't the bombing of the Vatican be justified by the British because IRA terrorists are all Catholic?"

That made me stop and think...