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Why do you think Republicans have not banned abortion?

Republicans hold a majority in all three branches of government.

They are cowards. As of yesterday i am no longer a republican.. I have not been a democrat for  about 30 years....

Maybe because:

1.  They're afraid of starting another war, or
2.  They aren't sure how to use their power, or
3.  They're afraid of the democrats, (back to #1), or
4.  They don't want to deal with it, or
5.  They believe in choice, or
6.  They feel banning abortion won't stop it but rather create
     an illegal butcher shop.
7.  Who really knows????

Heading in that direction myself!!!

Mmmm
Could this mean Hillary(sp?) might be our next president?

The only difference between the 2 parties is how they deal with abortion. The demos are for it, the repbulicans do not say they are for it, but their lack of action speaks LOUDLY.

O for a man to love the God given place of his birth...  

IF my people who are called by my name........

Probably for the same reason they couldn't get a simple up or down vote for judges. Add the word "Judicial" to "Political", and it should become apparent this will be a long fight.

There has been more anti-abortion work and progress in the last several years than in the entire history since Roe vs. Wade. There have even been some victories, even though the goal wasn't reached. So far, nobody has mentioned the hardest obstacle to get around - THE JUDICIAL. Those who have fought the battle from the beginning know that the Constitutional arguments are what has to be overcome. It won't do any good to pass new legislation just to have it declared Unconstitutional.

Here's what should be a given in this discussion:

Democrats are pro-choice - for abortion.

Republicans are pro-life - against abortion.

If Democrats have their way, Roe vs. Wade will be etched in granite forever, and no amount of work will ever be able to undo it. In fact, this is part of the Democratic platform.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 4:14  But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

3 Reasons (with the most important last):

1. Because it is not the Republican thing to do. The Republican is pro-states rights. A TRUE conservative Republican, but definition, does not believe the Federal Government should have the power to make these kinds of Choices for the state. To do such a thing would be totally against the party platform. To make a general law outlawing abortion would overturn hunderds of state laws all over the nation!

2. There is a WAR going on. Post-birth humans are dying, and personally, I think that take priority over the unborn. Yes, unborn are still important, and it is sad that they die, but people who are living without the help of another human body, and who, in fact, support OTHER humans with their paycheck (including the unborn), are dying overseas. That is a LITTLE more important. Can't you guys want till after we get this Iraq business settled to start throwing temper tantrums about abortion?

3. This is the most important reason why they haven’t done anything since taking Power: You! And by you, and mean all of you anti-gay marriage people! You are all too hooked on stupid issue like Gay Marriage. There is not a major outcry from the banning of abortion because all of the Christians want to tell people how to live their lives. If everyone would stop getting so hung up on what sinners are doing, many they will have time to talk about Abortion! As it is, you guys have Congress running circles around that stupid gay marriage amendment! Congress only has so much time to cover the issues, and if we would stop giving them stupid things like this to deal with, then maybe they could start talking about Abortion, and other issues that matter!

On top of all of that, while the GOP does have some power, it is still pretty even. We are not talking about a 2/3rds majority needed. Laws this big would more then likely take a 2/3rds vote. So, even is State rights wasn't as issue, and the combat was over, and Congress wasn't being bothers with lesser issues, then the likelihood of this law getting any further then a Standing Committee is not likely.  

Just my 2 cents... and a little change left over for a coke  ;D

I must agree with Beps. It took 40 yrs of liberalism of both Judicial and Executive branches to get this nation into the condition that it is. There is not going to be an easy "fix". It is definitely a major battle that is going to take awhile to accomplish. The Judicial situation is a must to be corrected first and even that has shown to be quite an undertaking.

Conservative = live baby
Liberal = dead baby

One can no longer consider Republicans as being conservative.  I think there are as many Democrat conservatives as there are Republican.

Compare the likes of Joe Lieberman (D) and Zell Miller (D) to the likes of George Voinovich (R) and Arlen Specter (R).  
I wouldn't support Voinovich or Specter for anything above latrine lieutenant, while I’d support Lieberman or Miller for any office.

Deaths since 2001:
In Afghanistan...............153
In Iraq..........................1,648
On US Highways.............152,655
In abortion clinics...........5,480,000

 

 :'( :'( :'(

As I said before, the death of independently living human who support OTHER human lives are more important.

A unborn baby dies=one live that barely started to live

A solider dies=his life, and the life of his pregnant wife and kids are forever altered for the worse.

How can you even start to imply the death of an unborn is more important then the death of someone who risks their life to keep you safe, and feed his family on the low pay of enlisted men. Have you even been to area of a military base where the enlisted families live, Evangelist? It’s a ghetto! Most of them are on food stamps! Even with the cheep food they can get from the commissary and the tax free ideas from the PX, they are still on welfare, all to keep your freedom sacred. This flippant aptitude that the babies have done nothing other but mooch of the body of their mothers for their short lives are somehow more valuable them the lives of a Husband and father who gives his life for his country is ntohign short of offensive!
 >:(

If I had the choice between a 1000 unborn or one Solider with a family, no contest, I would pick the solider every time!  

And I think you need to become a little more imformed in the area of American Politics before posting something like this. ::)

Tibby, I don't think anyone but you is placing more emphasis on which life has more value.   Clearly there is a problem with abortion in this country period!   Can you determine the purpose of anyones life before its even started?

Is the value of life determined by ones contribution to the world?  Or is it determined by the value God gives it?   You will note that Christ died for ALL....not just those contributing to society.

Life is life, and God is the one who gives it.   People die in everyday circumstances leaving wives and children behind.  Unborns being slaughtered is quite another thing.  However, sin is the cause of it all!    God help us to see the world through your eyes, and not our own.


Do we get to choose which soldier to kill off in war?   How about unborns who are aborted?    Call it a hunch, but I'm guessing most soldiers understand the potential sacrifice they face for the lives back home.   I wonder how many unborns have this understanding?



Grace and Peace!

"Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" This is why the majority of Soldiers join the Military and fight for. Aborted babies do not get the chance for any of these things. It is all taken away from them quite violently and forcibly.

How can anyone put one life as more important or more "valuable" than another. How does one know what one of those aborted babies will be "worth" if it had the opportunity to live. Perhaps one of those babies would be one that would find a cure to cancer or aids. Perhaps it would be the person to solve the fuel problems of this world. We will never know.

To say that any life is more important than another is to denigrate the very gift that God has given us.

Tibby, when you are about 30-years older I may consider entertaining the fact that you may then have enough of a clue to critize my political points of view.

Don't worry - when you have kids you will turn from your liberal ideals to conservative truths.  :)

I must agree. The names republican and democrat have gone the way of the word Christian.

No, we can't which is why, if the choice is between 2 peoples life must be made, we only have their past actions to just by.


Christ died for all, yes, I never said anyone is less worth of salvation. We arn't talking abotu salvation. We are talking about life in general. And sence we cannot tell the future contribtutiosn one will make (as you pointed out), if we have to chooe whose life COngress shoudl spend more time and money on, I think it should be those who have already made contributions and will potentially make more.



Thats good for God. He does what is right. And as a society, we have to do what we feel is right. People dying, leaving a wife and kids is MUCH more tragic then an unborn dying. The death of many fathers in Iraq HAS ALREADY effected many unborn!



Yes, the pro-choice have made it VERY clear how much a baby in the womb "understands." Science is very clear. Let those with the most understanding die last, I say. This is a case of ignorance being very bliss.

judgenot- I'm not the one saying the GOP is just as Liberal as the Dems... :P WHen I have kids, I doubt my common sence will have degraded that much... it takes about 18 years worth of raising kids for that to happen ;D ;D

i think we are the ones to make the choice not governments or anyone else we are responsible to God to do what is right according to His word. ::)

Tibby, Tibby, Tibby,
You must not have read this passage in the book of Matthew.

Mat 18:1  At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
Mat 18:2  And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
Mat 18:3  And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4  Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:5  And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
Mat 18:6  But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

This is the standard of the value of human life. Performance based worth is humanism not Christianity.

asaph

Amen, Asaph. The least of these will be the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven.

I have a GREAT idea!  Let's all gang up on Tibby!
(He secretly loves it!)  :D  :D  :D

Tibby - I'm among the flavor of folks who believes no one should even be allowed to vote unless they are 31 years old and have children.   ;D

(California liberals are entertaining the idea of lowering the voting age to 14.  YIKES!!!!  Talk about a disaster!)

One of those that thrives on negative attention??  :D

Voting age 14?!! Very few 14 yr olds even understand the word let alone what it entails.

Sinner,

If that had a chance of working, we wouldn't need any laws, police officers, courts, or prisons. However, all of those professions have full job protection since mankind is known for bad choices since the beginning of human history. This discussion is a perfect example. Many would say that we shouldn't need a law prohibiting the killing of babies. On the other side of the coin, some say it is just fine to kill babies.

God says that HE knew us in the womb and knew the number of hairs on our heads before the foundation of the world. God also said, "Thou shalt not kill". Fancy arguments and medical terms don't change the fact that millions of innocent babies are being murdered with abortions. Those responsible should keep practicing their arguments and see if one might be acceptable to God. Those who don't try to stop it should also practice these arguments, but I'm certain that God won't buy the lame excuses and arguments.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Isaiah 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

;D  ;D  ;D

I think we could all contribute and send Tibby to a good Baptist finishing school.

Just kidding Tibby...........I know you might be able to get even with us in the rest home.  ;D

WOW ! Tibby you advocate the murder of those who need other people? The next time you think of asking your parents or any one else for even a dime think instead of taking your life.

Diabetics need insulin..

Some folks need dialyses.

Some folks need heart medicine

I find your attitude towards the life of the unborn, unchristian and totally offensive. The fact that you are part of this CU community makes it even more offensive, and less tolerable. I do not find your statments ones to be  joked about the killing of the babies is not to be taken lightly.

Oh, of course, someone has to pull this verse out. When Jesus used the store of the pearl to talk about the Kingdom of Heaven, no one makes the argument that heaven is like an impurity that found its way into a mollusk, do they? So what, Jesus used Childern (note, it is CHILDERN, not a fetus, there is a difference) as an analogy. Good for him. How does this make Children the “value of human life.” The problem with this argument is not the verse (because the bible is flawless), it is the warrant.
I think a College Diploma should be required, but to each his own.



Until it starts getting personal…



There are just as many older people who agree with me as there are that agree with all of you (not here, mind you, but they are out there). I have come to believe over the years that the reason Paul told Timothy not let anyone look down in him because if his age was because age grants experience, but not wisdom. Think of experience as the crude oil that makes wisdom.


 
No, Reba, I am not advocating kill those who depend on other, I am advocating that, if one has to choose between killing someone who others are depend on, or killing someone dependent, the most humane and logical choice, the choice that causes LESS suffering, is to allow the person who other rely on the live.


I find everyone attitude toward the youth to be offence, and I can point out areas where it is unbiblical (and so can all of you). I am not joking about any of it, Reba. I gave you 3 (4 if you count the 2/3rds part) reasons why the Republicans have not banned abortion, and all you guys can do is say “oh, he is to young to understand.” Is that the case? The why has someone not addressed the other issues I brought up? If I am so wrong and unchristian (for what, I am not sure),

As for those of you getting offended, this is the Debate board, and you know it can get blood, and ALSO know that this is a very emotional topic (and a political one on top that that, adding to the drama). If we can not leave emotion at the door and talk about this like the mature, wise, adults you all claim you are and I’m not, then lets do so, otherwise, do not come in and bring it up.

I still want to see someone address my other points. I answered a question in the debate board. Everyone is saying the Republicans are wrong for not banning abortion, and I gave you a list of reasons why they are not wrong for banning it. Unless everyone agrees with my other points, I would like to agree them as well. How can I ever chance my liberal views if all you can do is say “Oh, you’re too young to understand” and leave it at that?  Of course, someone is going to say “Oh, you will never change your mind” 2 years ago I was an Evangelical who agreed with you guys on all of this, I have changed a LOT when someone has pointed out the flaws in my beliefs. If my beliefs are flawed, then point out why, and if I can not find the flaw in your flaw, then I will admit you are correct. Nothing personal, just the facts, as they lay in American Politics and the Bible.

Yes Tibby you are advocating the killing  those who depend on others.  


I am not joking about any of it, Reba.
I was not referring to you here Tibby but to the other posters who are being light hearted about the millions of deaths your thinking advocates.

 point 1 Murder is already against the law in all states.

point 2  Christians waited to long already to throw a temper tratrum over abortion.  Tibby when have we not been at war some place?

point 3   You think gay marriage is a stupid issue...  It is not Study some history  study it away from texts books. Check the moral decay to see the fall of nations. Yes homosexaluty , acted on, is not moral, it is not amoral, it is unmoral. Scripture calls the act an abomination.

The republicans have control not my a lareg margin but they refuse to stand up wiht those who elected them to office. I listen to them wine about not haveing a marjorty so 'what can we do' well they have control of the commitites and they do nothing. As a group they are as usless as the democrates.

I have answered youir points to my best. You support the killing of unborn children i will not respond to you and more.

I find it interesting, that the original poster, has not provided any input here.   Yet the rest of us have taken the bait hook line and sinker and gone to task with one another over a topic that deepens the divide with every passing reply.  

These things we know to be truth....

Abortion is wrong.  
Our Congress has problems.  
Men are dying in war.
Sin is at the heart of all the above.
Christ is the answer  


This question seems posed to create a ruckus rather than receive an answer or understanding or fellowship.   Florida_catholic....This is the second thread you have created in regards to republicans.   Exactly what is it you seek in these discussions that you never partake of after the initial post?    

I don't know about anyone else, but the division being caused here is becoming shameful.   If there is wisdom to be found in any of our assailing one another, I can certainly live without it.  

Grace and Peace!

Have I ever been to a base? Yes, many, many times. As a matter of fact, I currently have a son in law, daughter, and 3 grandkids living on one.  My son spent 8 years in one.  None of them have lived on food stamps.

I did, though....when I spent almost 27 years in law enforcement, and raised three kids, and my take home pay was $295 a month.....so don't try to get haughty with such questions.

Flippant attitude? It seems to me you have one with your assumptions. No where did I, or anyone else, equate an unborn baby as being MORE valuable than a living one....you are the one making such judgments, which leads me to believe that your take on life is much the same as the judges who are currently issuing death warrants for some because their "quality of life" is not up to par.

Life.....ALL life....is valuable to God, and therefore SHOULD be equally valuable to us.

I find your comments to be offensive....not to me, but to God Almighty!

Amen, 2T. I have noticed the same thing about Florida_catholic. Usually a single post that is meant to stir things up.

I myself spent a little over 20 yrs in service. While base housing was not the Taj Mahal, I found it to be quite adequate accomodations for my family. Definitely not a ghetto house. As for the PX's and Commisaries I found it cheaper quite often to shop off base. As for our soldiers having to be on food stamps .... that is a problem with many entry level jobs today and is usually confined to those that are E-4 and below (an average person can make E-5 in approx. 4 years). The Military has a better benefit package than most non-military people get (medical, cost-of-living allowances, basic allowance for quarters, family separation allowance, etc,).

While I would like to see them get something more deserving than that for their sacrifices it is still better than the non-military sector.

No, reba, I’m not. If you cannot behave reasonably, I will just begin to ignore you’re posts.



Well, perhaps your views are not as inflatable as you think. Maybe there is nothing wrong with keeping a smile, even in the darkest of times.



Point taken.



I agree, but we are throwing temper tantrums about less important things (see point 3 for more).



The majority of the time. Committing troops to a place and being in a war are two different things, Reba. Toppling over a stable government then bringing new leadership to the Anarchy is different from sending troops to keep the peace.



Well, Hitler took care of all him gays. He just rounded them up and slaughtered them. How about that? Yes, I think Gay Marriage is a very stupid issue. You want to know what causes nations to fall? They fall when they stop being a nation ruled by the peoples and become a Dictatorship that ban anything the leadership doesn’t like, THAT Is how nations fall. It is none of your business what these homosexuals do, if they are not hurting you.

However, that was not the main point of that argument. The main point was, congress has not banned Abortion because we are to busy telling them to ban gay marriage. They don’t have time for two issues that big, and we choose to try and make an amendment to keep Sinners from marrying then to make and amendment to protect the unborn, so I don’t want to here any one who whined about Gay Marriage to whine about the lack of action in abortion, because it partly your fault. By supporting the anti-gay-marriage, we told congress that we would rather keep Homosexuals from marrying then protecting the unborn. And because congress wants to stay in office, they where happy to oblige.

Sounds like FC wants to discredit republicans As I explained to Reba in my PM to her, I am not advocating the death for the unborn, I just cannot stand idlely by while people unfairly attack the GOP.

Evangelist- What are/where you’re sons rank and ? I noticed you never mentioned that. The first 13 years of my life laying with the children of Enlisted men in the Ghetto of Ft Hood is not going to change my mind. I’ve spend extensive time in the kind of poverty these people live in, just like you and Roger, and I know many of them DO use food stamps, and a Google search will show you what I mean. Articles, discussion boards, all you have to do is run a search and find the kind of poverty many lower enlisted men are in.

Life… ALL life... is VERY valuable to God, and is equally valuable to me. And in a prefect world, we would not have the triage life in this way, but guess what? We aren’t in a prefect world, and we have a limited amount of resources to save a VERY extinctive list of people, both born and unborn, both American and otherwise, who NEED those resources to survive. We HAVE to choose.

Tibby,

Greater Love hath no man but this, that a man lay down His life for a friend".

We may live in an imperfect world, but the Resource of Resources came into this world and Chose ALL of us.   We who have understood and accepted that Resource can see the waste that is around us.   We know all these things need correction and yes, we should stand for ALL that is right.   The imperfect world is going to face extinction as you put it.  There is only one Resource in which man can avoid this said extinction.    We are not going to save the world with our so called wisdom and debating of these horrific deeds which we men alone cannot stop.  Yes, It is our duty to stand for all that is right, and point others to the one and ONLY Resource that can help.   The beauty of it is, that Resource is not limited.....Its ENDLESS and available to ALL MEN!    

We could ease all burden on Congress, and the world is still lost.   We could focus only abortion, and wouldn't change a thing.  We could focus only on dying soldiers, but the empending horror that awaits the world approaches still yet.   None of our solutions will help man avoid His destiny.

You want to help those dying soldiers?   Share the resource with them.   You want to save those unborn children?  Share the resource with those mothers.   You want to help congress with the problems facing our nation?  Share the resource with them.

I'm sorry folks, but there it is.   We can't change this world.  But we most certainly can point them to the ONLY Resource that can.  

Jesus Christ!   No greater Love hath any man but this.  Share IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Grace and Peace!

Well said Tim!

And another AMEN, 2T. Jesus Christ is the only answer.

My son was a SFC, 101 Airborne, MPI/Ranger and spent 6 years in Germany (and a few other places (classified), 2 at Ft. Campbell, KY. He was there when the wall came down.

My son in law is a Sgt (just made it from Spc4), Ft. Hood, 1 Cav 2/7, just back from Iraq (got 2 Bronzes and an Army Commendation w/V  :D ). He's due out in 2 months and is looking for a job in law enforcement.

Didn't think it too necessary to mention it before.
 

Ah, so we arn't talking a bout the same thing, there, then...

Deepens the divide between what?

I think he was talking about this:


Which is true. It is a debate board, but some are taking this much to personally. It is a shame when we cannot have an exchange of ideas without division. I think the problems is not with your Post, FC, I think this is just the maifestation of a much bigger problem facing Christianity, the "Pick up my ball and go home" problem. We see it all the time in the Church. Instead of exchanging ideas, like adults, and argeein to disagree and fellowship together, we call eachother "unchristian" and split into 2 different church down the street from one another. It is a shame. :'(

Tibby,

There was a fairly good opportunity given to let this cool down. I wish you had taken it.

This is a Christian Forum, and this specific debate is about good vs. evil with the Bible as the authority. There shouldn't be any surprise that the vast majority of Christians side with good and the Bible. It's really just as simple as that.

I'll be nice and say that I hope you didn't pay much for the load of bull you're trying to sell. Trying to associate triage with abortion is hinting that there might be something good about abortion. It brings to mind that someone might also say there is something good about genocide.

Christians are naturally going to be offended by some of the posts in this thread. If they weren't, I would worry. The fact is that the vast majority of Christians will be and are more than offended by some of the posts in this thread. I'm one of them.

Regardless, it's time to cool this thread down. We can let that happen naturally or lock it. I'll watch for a couple more posts and see what happens.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Revelation 21:23  And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Quote from Tibby_
" So what, Jesus used Childern (note, it is CHILDERN, not a fetus, there is a difference) as an analogy. Good for him. How does this make Children the “value of human life.” The problem with this argument is not the verse (because the bible is flawless), it is the warrant."

Young man, you're wrong, there is no difference. These are children we are talking about. Just because they happen to be in a womb does not make them any less human than outside the womb. Did you learn in college that life begets life and it happens at conception? If the fetus was non-living, I'd say you have an argument. But as it is you have no leg to stand on.

I'd take Jesus' evaluation of the matter very seriously if I were you.

asaph

Ok, listen up, it is clear I sued a poor choice of words to discribe what I was trying to say, so I’m going to try and put it a different way, to see it if becomes more comrehendable. Here are the fact as they stand:

The GOP is not fighting abortion because we, the voters, have giving them mandates to fight other things, like Gay marriage and the war on Terror. This is a FACT.

If Bush can get those Conservative Judges in the Supreme court, they will end abortion. This is a FACT.

Congress need OUR support to help do the last two things mentioned, but we aren’t giving it to them because our support is for things like Gay marriage and the war on Terror. That is a fact.

I’m all for helping the unborn, but I can’t do it alone, I need your help to support the GOP, and your attitude clearly show no interest in helping them. That is a fact (2 facts, actaully, but who is counting?)



Brother Tom, this is a VERY serous issue to me. There is only one party in power that wants to end Abortion, and everyone is turning their back on them! How is that productive to ending abortion, I ask you? As someone who is very pro-life, I see this negative attitude to be VERY dangerous, something that could very well cause a weakening or even and end in the pro-life movement, that THAT is a VERY serous thing. I am sorry, Tom, I don't wish to start trouble, but I have to do my part to get people back with the GOP and fight the pro-choicers! It may be a “load of bull” but it is a “load of bull” that will keep unborn from dying, so it is worth a fight!

Asaph, all of your friends in this post clearly used my young age as a point against me, and here you are debating that the young are the ideal “the standard of the value of human life.” Maybe you need to have a little powwow with them, get this all cleared up. Or do we stop being a "standard of the value of human life" when we turn 18?

Quote from Tibby-
"Asaph, all of your friends in this post clearly used my young age as a point against me, and here you are debating that the young are the ideal “the standard of the value of human life.” Maybe you need to have a little powwow with them, get this all cleared up. Or do we stop being a "standard of the value of human life" when we turn 18?"

I know what you are feeling. When I was your age I hated it when someone would come into the auto parts store and refer to me as the "boy."  It infuriated me. But as I grew older I realized that they meant no harm by it. Calling you young man is no different. No harm intended. You belittling someone because they do not have a college education may not be the best approach to the issues. I have been through the university of hard knocks. I wonder what college can teach the things I have learned through life.
And besides you have not answered my point in my last post. My point being that life begins at conception. That life is totally dependant on us to protect it. they cannot protect themselves. Watch the silent scream video and maybe you will understand.
asaph

I was not offended your use of “young man.” It was some of your friends who implying I did not have the right to hold an option contrary to theirs because I am young, that is what go to me. Paul told Timothy to not let people look down on him because he was younger, and that was a command to Timothy, not to his Elders. I will not let other look down on me because of my age. There are a large number of people their own age and older who agree with me, there are doctors with 20-40 years who agree with my side, and there are doctors that agree with your side. Because of this I know age and experience, while important, do not play as big a role in this issue as they are implying. My views are a result of my research, not my age. I am not defined by the time of my birth, and neither is anyone else here.

I did, in the past, attack people without a College education, but that before I attended college, or even graduated from High School. Sense that time, I have meet many out of college who deserve respect given to a professor, and even some in college who need to get a kick in the head to set them straight. College education, like age, does not have a big of a bearing as many place on it.

My father in his mid-50s, with has 2 Bachelors Degrees and a Masters. He spent 21 years in the military, even spent 3 in JSOC, as a medical unit of the Delta Force (but he never met Chuck Norris ;D ), and has been all over the world. He was born Catholic, then converted to Pentecostal, then Baptist, then Charismatic, and now is Catholic again. He has been an Elder of many churches, an associate pastor once, and is now a Pastor. But you know what? Even he is still learning.

Thank you for your empathy, my friend. I really to appreciate it. This is a nice little tangent, but now lets get back to the topic at hand:



Ensoulment is an issue that many of debated for years. I think David said it best in Psalms 139 "...You knit me together in my mother's womb." Yes, I believe by the time the Blastula is formed, life has started. To believe otherwise is just unsound!

The issue I am trying to address is not whither or not abortion should be illegal, the issue I am trying to address is the one that FC brought up: why the Republicans are dragging their feet. I am trying to answer, and at the same time, defend some of the unfair assumptions made on the part of some of the members here. They want congress to solve all the worlds problems, but congress does not exist outside of time. Like everyone else, congress has a limited amount of time to get all the legation passed. And the first section of every new congress is spent on setting the budget for the fiscal year that starts in October, as that is their main Constitutional duty. After that, they have a limited about of time left to debate and address all the legislation before them, and if the things they vote don’t get pass the Executive or Judicial Branches, they have to do it all over again!

We, as in the American people as a whole, have been demeaning justice for 911, and that is a very time consuming thing. And while they where doing all of that, we, everyone right of center was demanding there be a Conditional Amendment banning gay marriage. If you are reading this, and you don’t know what is involved in making something a Conditional Amendment, I want you to stop reading and look it up. It is a VERY, VERY time consuming thing to make an Amendment (there is a reason there are so few). And don’t even get me started with the time and money involved in the Health care and Social Security issues!

My point is, we have been taking up their time with so MANY other issues. How is it fair of us to demand so much from them, and get mad when they can’t deliver 110% of what we want? The Republicans are in power, yes, but they are not holding a 2/3rds majority, and a lot of this stuff requires a 2/3rds just to win the right to get vetoed!
 
See what I’m trying to say? Of everyone who is getting worked up over Congresses lack of action in the Abortion issue, how many of you want to find Ben Laden? How many of you want a Gay Marriage Amendment? How many of you want the Government to help the poor with healthcare? How many of you want to keep Social Security intact? How many of you want the ballot problems to be fixed? How many of you want our troops to have the gear they need to do what they have to too protect us?  Look, I never said Abortion isn’t an important issue, but if you guys want Congress to do something, then you need to get their priorities straight. Right now, they think Gay Marriage and Social Security are on the top of your lists. If it isn’t, let them know!

Well put Tibby,
At the core of the whole problem is the unfortunate fact that most Amaricans want the feds to solve all our issues. The feds are more than happy to accommodate where posible. Leviathan loves control and so in exchange for control it gives us laws pertaining to moral issues.
We do not need a constitutional amendment to solve any of the issues mentioned on this thread. We simply need to follow the constitution as it stands.
Feds should not have their hands in the pie of abortion, gay marriage, education, church etc., etc..
All these issues need to be decided at the state or local levels.
I am certain that others disagree with me on this and it is not my desire to debate it. I am primarily a man of the scriptures and try to stay focused on that. Politics can be a real distraction to me if I let it. I use the weapon of prayer as my basic way to fight evil in this world.
I appreciate the fact that there are those who are closer to politics than I. But always be aware that evil is fought in the secret place of the Most High.

asaph

Thanks, and right back at you. A lot of the Amendments we have already, we don’t need! :-\

In truth, a law against a abortion is just going to send people back to the Butcher and Barber to get it done in the back room. What we need a a change in the people, not the law. This issue is just too hot for most on either side to talk about civilly. It truly saddens me to see people get so worked up over issues like this, where cool heads are of upmost importance in solving the problem! :'(

Brothers and Sisters,

In reflection, I probably shouldn't have said anything here. SO:

Have at it!

Helmets and flak-jackets optional.

Tibby,

I do not believe that these problems would even be solved at the state and local levels either. As you said if these people want an abortion badly enough they will return to the "Butcher and Barber" methods. The only ones that it will stop are those that don't want to break laws.

As I have said many times and will many times more  .....

JESUS IS THE ANSWER.

Rebublicians are the majority party. What have they done? Allowed 7 demos to control the senate.

spent more $$$  But i thought democrats only spent...

GW is proud of working with ted the slim ball kennedy...

GW  is rightly compaired to JFK

I will look into the constitution party. Demos and Repubs have both been in DC too long.  

Who is playing footisy with hellery? Newt! I see socialism at every turn. It happens a little bit at a time like " a little bit of sugar makes the medicine go down."

I had hoped bill clinten was creepy enough to bring God's people to repentence,   2 Chronicles 7:14,  

I'm not sure that I agree with the rest however socialism has been creeping in on us for many, many years. There isn't enough sugar available to make that medicine go down without gagging on it.

I, too, have considered another party. It would take quite a political conversion of many people to get any other party besides dems/repubs in office.

I have seen for a long time the handwriting on the wall. I have voted the constitution party the last two presidents.  But no matter who is in office we need to pray. Dare to be Daniels in a Chaldean world.

asaph

Yeah, Reba, that darn filibuster, uh? It is all the Republicans fault. They told the foundering fathers to start that, didn't they?. We should solve the problem by burning the Constitution, and just making a dictatorship where one party rules are, will you be happy then? ::)



Military campaigns are not Cheap. Either way, what is wrong with spending?



Yeah, because it isn’t like this country was founded on the philosophy of Democracy or anything, right?::)



Besides the womanizing (which is not a problem with Bush) what do you have against JFK?

Tibby, I think you said this?
"Then you need to get your eyes checked. Socialism? You know what I see? I see that you have been taken in by the constitution party's anti-American propaganda."

Huh? I do not like every thing I see in the constitution party, but anti american? Maybe anti modernism. They are seeking the old paths but we have gotten so far off those paths that people actually think they are anti american now. If you tell a lie long enough people actually begin to see it as truth. In fact many will call truth a lie and a lie truth. And they will put good for evil and evil for good. Sounds like Isaiah all over. But you know what they did to him-they sawed him in two.

asaph

Yes, all you have to do is read their platform to see that they are no preaching the same doctrine as the Founding Fathers. The Constitution Party ideology is based on Right-wing Libertarianism, not historical facts. And they use the Constitution out of its own context. For better or worse, according to the Constitution, the Constitution is to be defined and interpreted by the Judicial Branch of the Government. Their Platform goes directly against some of the Supreme courts interpretation of the Constitution, which, ironically enough is not Constitutional! Interesting conundrum. By their very nature, they are contrary to themselves. Having parties is even unconstitutional. Washington even refused to name a party as President, he was so against the system.

So what are we to do, Tibby? We Support the Republicans who, unlike the Constitution Party, are trying to do something to correct the situation by bring in Conservative Judges. What has the Constitution Party done, besides take votes from the Republicans? NOTHING. Everyone says “The current parties not getting anywhere, so I’m going to support the Constitution Party!” But has anyone stopped to think what the Constitution Party has done so far? They done less then either party in Power has done! Even if the GOP falls and the Constitution Party take their place, the Democrats will have them deadlocked as well (even more so, because such a shift of power like that, from one party to the next, would make the Right weak, and the Left would take control), and we would be back to where we started, with the Rightwingers and Leftwingers fighting to get the opposite thing done, and canceling each other out. The problem the Constitution Party is trying to fix can only be fixed by changing the Constitution, which is also ironic, because that is against the party platform. I support writing a Constitutional amendment, making a Euro-style Congress, with a multipartisan system.

I do not believe that if you tell a lie long enough people actually begin to see it as truth for the simple fact that, out of the big 5 religions in the world, Christianity is the youngest. Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism have been around much longer, and we have a LONG ways to go before these lies are reviled as truth. How long have Zodacs and fortune tellers been around for? Sorry, but there are a lot of lies that have been going on for over a millennium, and still exist, unhindered by truth.

 Can anyone find the words in the Constitution that say, or imply, the  Constitution is to be defined and interpreted by the Judicial Branch of the Government

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Article3 (http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Article3)

What do you think the job of a judiciary is, Reba? They did not put it in the constitution because everyone is aware of the fact that they primary concern of any Judiciary in any country is the interpretation and administration of acts, laws, bills, constitutions, etc. And the Government, as well as any teacher of History and Government from first grade all the way up to Graduate level college agrees with me. Your question is like asking where is says that the Army is suppose to fight wars. No one HAS to say it, it is in the very definition of an Army is fight a war.

Remember, the constitution is not the Bible, Reba, it is not infallible, I believe this is the main fallacy of the Constitution party. I know, this isn’t a popular idea, but if the first try at writing a paper to run a Government by failed miserable, why should we assume the second is so much better? Men wrote the Constitution, Reba, not God. Womanizing, alcoholic, slave-owning men, who didn’t want to pay their taxes.

Brothers and Sisters,

Our Constitution and other founding documents are not the problem. Our problem is rogue and activist judges who have added what isn't there and subtracted what is there. Our founding documents were brilliant and served our country well for many years. What we really need is a Constitutional Convention where some of the language is tightened up and the cheating room for judges removed. The whole country would be involved, and the result would be binding on the judges who have twisted and distorted the Constitution into a mess that the founding fathers would go to war for. All of the major issues could be addressed at once. I would hope that the biggest result would be rule given back to the people and their representatives and end the rule of judges, especially the ones who are not elected. The balance of power needs to be restored. A huge example would be that the founders never intended that judges would have the power to make law. In effect, that is exactly what they are doing today. The founders clearly intended for the elected representatives of the people to make law, not judges. Judges were to enforce the Law of the People, not the law of other judges. As a matter of fact, judges have usurped much of the power that was intended ONLY for our elected representatives (i.e. Congress).

Love In Christ,
Tom

I Peter 3:18  For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Tibby, the problem is, as BEP and Reba are tying to say, is that the courts are doing more than interpriting the law.   They are legislating from the bench.

The problem with that is that the nation "by the people and for the people" cannot hold them accountable for their actions.   We cannot vote them out if we disagree.  They are appointed for life.   This is why we vote for legislators to create laws to represent us as a people.   When the judges go beyond what is meant by the law, changing it, and making new laws, then the nation is out of the hands of those who own it, the people!

My question is....as I am no expert on this topic.   Who is suppose to hold the courts accountable...congress?   If so, are they turning they heads the other way when these courts go beyond what the constitution permits?   If so, then why?

Grace and Peace!

The Judiciary

The United States Constitution does not provide for lifetime appointment of federal judges, but only for a term of office during good behavior. We support Congressional enforcement of the Constitutional rule of good behavior and to restrain judicial activism by properly removing offending judges through the process of impeachment provided for in Article I, § 2 and 3 of the Constitution. Furthermore, Congress must exert the power it possesses to prohibit all federal courts from hearing cases which Congress deems to be outside federal jurisdiction pursuant to Article III, § 2 of the Constitution.

We particularly support all the legislation which would remove from Federal appellate review jurisdiction matters involving acknowledgement of God as the sovereign source of law, liberty, or government.

We commend Former Chief Justice Roy Moore of the Alabama Supreme Court for his defense of the display of the Ten Commandments, and condemn those who persecuted him and removed him from office for his morally and legally just stand.

We deny the validity of judicial rulings that use foreign court rulings to overturn U.S. precedent.

http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php#The%20Judiciary (http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php#The%20Judiciary)

Interesting Reba, I did not know this.

Yes, and unfortunately, the problem that causes this will not fixed by turning to the Constitution. If we want to change this problem, we need to change the Constitution. As I said before, it is not an infallible document. They wrote it very vague, so we could come along and fill in the blanks and we desired.

You guys say they are appointment for life like that is a BAD thing. No, they aren’t swayed by voter opinion, you are right, that was the whole idea behind the lifetime appointment, guys!!! It is not in the Constitution? Well, the Constitution party seems more then willing to point out the parts of the Judicial Branch against the Constitution, but they never even skim over the fact that this Parisian government is also not in the Constitution. As I said before, Washington refused to name a party, he was so against the idea. Why doesn’t the Constitution Party mention this? They willingly bash others for not obeying the Constitution, but they themselves are doing things against the Constitution. That is what we in Christian Circles called Hypocritical,. And it makes them no better then the Repubs or Demos in my book.