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I just read an article that proposes that churches sell their decaying and expensive historical church buildings to be made into condos.  Then with the money they could rent out space in shopping malls or movie theatres.  

What do you think?   Good, bad idea?

The group I worship with meets in a strip mall.  It's actually pretty common around these parts (Nor-Cal) - I know of at least two other mall-based services in my general area.  I think it's a GREAT idea - I mean - all we wish for is a place out of the rain, with room for the pastor to stand and teach and plenty of electrical outlets for the band!  ;D

Yeah, it was common in DC, too. It is cheap and easy. We have a lot of friends who pastor church in shopping malls, and hotel meeting rooms, and stuff like that. Me personally, I'm against them, when money and space allowes it. I understand some churches don't have the money for fansy building, but I think Gods house should be set apart, should be different. It should not resymble the world, but the kingdom of Heaven.

Couldn't be any worse than having a shopping mall in the church.........could it?  ::)

He-he-he-he.  We got more commedians on this site than a dog has fleas.
 ;D  :D

God Bless,
JN

Well JudgeNot, I guess you would know. (http://bestsmileys.com/funny/3.gif)

My church rents out space in a old farmers market.

Who's joking? Have you been to some of the bookstores these church have!? ??? >:( ::) :-\ :-X

Churches in strip malls, what a great idea! Now I can have a donut from Krispy Kreme, get some Starbuck's coffee,go to church,rent a movie from Blockbuster, pick up my dry cleaning,get my haircut at Supercuts, buy a sandwich from Subway and get a Slushee from 7-11 without ever leaving the parking lot! Looks like I'll be home by 10:30 am on Sundays from now on! I can't wait. ;D ;D

"It should not resymble the world, but the kingdom of Heaven."

How could any man made edifice resemble the kingdom of heaven?

ollie

Churches assembling in empty store rooms has probably been going on since the day of pentacost AD33. I know it has been a happening all through my lifetime.

ollie

Jesus and his disciples went to where the people were, not sit back and wait for them to come to them.

"It should not resymble the world, but the kingdom of Heaven."

How could any man made edifice resemble the kingdom of heaven?

ollie


I don't know, but Moses did a pretty good job.



Yes, as we should go out, doesn't mean we can't have a space set apart as well.

<sigh>

Come on guys!   Some of the silliest arguments come up on this forum.    :(     Where ever brothers and sisters gather to worship, is Church.    

I've been to church in many many places....from the middle of sugar cane fields in shanty's with the floor made of cow dung, and roof made out of tin, to private homes, as well as beautiful buildings that were breath taking....and God was in our midst and the same in each.

Mat 18:20  For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.


Grace and Peace!

2nd Timothy,

Amen Brother! Most of you know that my dad was a preacher for over 60 years before he passed away. Part of his early ministry was as a circuit preacher for communities and groups that didn't have a preacher. SO, there were services on street corners, tents, fields, under trees, schools, private homes, and just about you name it. Some of the structures had electricity, running water, and indoor restrooms, but many didn't. Dad had several extra large car batteries in the trunk of his car and a sound system that would run from the car. All he had to do is leave the car running and everything worked fine.    :D  I'm completely serious. Many of the groups and communities were very poor, but you don't have to be rich or have a fancy place to worship God.

Most of the people I really liked and still remember from his early ministry were hard working country folks who had very little. I'm positive that Jesus was present for the services.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 130:5  I wait for the LORD, my soul doth wait, and in his word do I hope.

AMEN 2T,

The people are the Church, not the building.
Bob

Acts 14:27 Now when they had come and gathered the church together, they reported all that God had done with them, and that He had opened the door of faith to the Gentiles.

You mean the bookstores that include Doctrines & Covenants, The Pearl of Great Price, Yoga for Relaxation and Meditation, The Collected Writings of Helen Blavatsky, etc.?

Seems to me that Jesus said somewhere  ;) "make not my Father's house an house of merchandise"

I must be misunderstanding some of you.
Are there implications that, say, a mission/church located in the 'skid-row' part of Anytown, USA should not exist because there may be an adult bookstore next door or even a skid-row strip joint just down the street?

Surely I am misunderstanding your point.

Well said, judge not!

Tim, Dreamw, please don't start with the sematics! No one is denying what you said, but come on, you both KNOW what the question is in referrence, too. ::)

???   I know what the original question was, I also see what many answers imply.


So you tell me.......what seperates the Church from the world?   The building?  

Grace and Peace!

Among other things, yes. Why shouldn't it be? Why shouldn't the house of God be different from every Mom & Pop shop and corprate coffee house and gease-soaked burger joint in town? Contrary to what some of our brothers may thing, the Church is NOT a Business!

God designed his house with Gold column so holy that every touching them should kill you, and you want to just THAT next to a titty bar and across from a beer store? Christians need to be at these spots, tell about God, but the House of God needs to be set apart.

This is where the army of God goes for training and equiping, it should be set apart, holy, and different.

This I will agree with whole heartedly!



I have heard of Churches taking up residence in places just as you describe here, running those worldly busineses out of town Tibby.   ;)    Yes bars and strip clubs....right here in Frisco Texas mind you!   The owners of the businesses were not pleased, but the customers strangely stopped frequenting those places and eventually went out of business.   Hows that for not wanting to touch the gold?  :D

We as believers are the ones that need to be set apart from the world as it were.    The building is mere stone where or whatever it may be built from.   Yes even the gold in Moses time was only earthly stone.   It was the presence of God that made it Holy.   Not the beauty of the archetecture.

I understand what your trying to say, I think, but I hope you see my point as well.

Grace and Peace!

The two nicest churches I've ever been to....because of the fellowship, the heart and soul of the ministers and the congregants, were:

Church in the Park, Temple, Texas.  We met under one of the picnic table covers. 100+ people attended, and we shared hot dogs and chili afterwards.

Church under the Bridge, Waco, Texas.  Literally, under one of the IH35 overpasses.....about 350 people. Same thing.

Wonderful!!

Didn't have anything there that looked like TBN, either.....

God was there.

When visiting Baltimore last year I wondered into skid-row by mistake when walking to the waterfront from the hotel.  I started sweating it until I looked up and saw a 'Jesus Saves' sign (yep - a neon sign at that!) above a mission door.  I walked in, had fellowship a bite to eat with a lady who was watching the door and left a meager donation.  
The Spirit was definitely present.

A building is a building. The temple of God is not a building of stone or brick. Sometimes we put to much emphasis on the man made building and not enough as to what goes on inside of it.

Should we put time and money into a building to make it look like what is described in heaven (Rev 21:18  And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.) or should we put that money to use in spreading the Gospel?

Someone said earlier that Moses did a pretty good job of making a church like the Kingdom of Heaven. Moses held church in the open air to start and eventually had a tent for a church.


If it weren't for these churches that are in the city bottoms and skid rows (and shopping malls) there would be many that would not hear the Word of God.

The important thing is that this church is doing the Lords work. If that means taking the church to those people in order to reach them then Praise God do so.

Yes, Evagelist, as a former resident of "the heart of Texas," with a father was was big in the churches there, I am well aware of the situation with buildings over their.

So, God makes it Holy, then why did the Lord cammand gold, then? Why did God ask for jewels? Sorry guys, I can't find much in the Bible to support what you are saying. The Bible is pretty clear about the importance of a Psycial house of God in Earth. Judging from my reading, I think David and Moses agree with me. We are a Trinity of our own, why God feed our minds and hearts, but leave our physcial to starve? How can we truly be a Holy people if we only are spiritual feeding 2/3rds of our whole? God interacts with us on all 3 levels, does he not?

I certainly have nothing against gold of well built churches Tibby.    No doubt Moses used gold as instructed by God in the OT.   But Gold today does not kill people when they touch it.   Neither do our church buildings thank goodness...lol    It was Gods Holiness and mans impurity that caused death, clearly definning the great separation of man and God - His purity and Holiness\Mans sinfulness and unworthyness.  I think the Gold was symbolic of Gods greatness and purity in mans eyes due to how precious a resource it was in the world.

Heb 9:11  But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;


The church in the NT did meet in homes...not that this was commanded either, it just happened that way probably due to persecution and not being able to find places easily.

Rom 16:5  Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

Note how the term is used.  Greet the Church that is in their House.  Not that the house was the Church, but rather the body of faithful that were meeting for the purpose of teaching, reading scripture, worshipping God.   This is what the Church is....the Body of believers in Christ that gather in His name.

I don't want you to think I am arguing here at all.  Like I said, I have no problem with wanting a nice building to call Church, but its not about the materials used to make a building that makes it Church.  Its the presense of God that comes over that gathering wherever that may be.   Jesus did have any problems going and teaching in the temple, but neither did he have any problem teaching under trees or on hills or in homes.

If its good enough for the High Priest, its good enough for me!

Grace and Peace!

EXACTLY! And that still applies today! Which is why, if a church is able to afford it, they should move out of a mall and build something a little more... symbolic. ;)

Eph 2:19  Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20  And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21  In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto a holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22  In whom ye also are builded together for a habitation of God through the Spirit.

Thats the gold I think of....buts thats me  :-\

Grace and Peace!

If I felt like starting a Catholic debate, I would point out some interesting things about that verse... ;)

But I'm not, I'm simply going to point out that this verse is clear metaphorical. Jesus is not a literal stone block at the conter of a building, this buildings foundation was not cemented with the bodies of the apostles and prophets. This verse is a metaphor to help us understand the workings of the kingdom. Eph 2:19-22 does not eliminate the need for a House of Worship!

But maybe that is just me.  ::)

So sensitive!

(http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/fish.gif) Take that!  LOL


Just expressing my views Tibby...not trying to force you to change yours.  (http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/caked.gif)


Grace and Peace!

So am I, brother, so am I! ;) Unfortunatly for us, those view differ slightly... and look, whatdaya know! We are in the Debate forum! :P So, I'm trying to debate ;)

And (and this is the most amazing part) the dedate is ON TOPIC! That is to be some kinda first! A debate that lasts 2 pages, that stays on topic in CU! I thought I was doing rather well. :)

 
Actually I think you may be onto something there dude  ;D



Nahh, thats just you  ;)   (http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/lol.gif)   j/k!!!!!



No problem here at all.   But thats what the (http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/fish.gif) is for  :P   :D