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I have never thought that music is automatically wrong just because the band is not labeled as a 'Christian' band. I think it is wrong, however, to listen to any music that has obscene lyrics or that deals with specifically unChristian themes (sexual immorality, drugs, violence, etc.). however, I have heard some bands who's music for the most part is not in any way obscene, and whose lyrics are not specifically 'Christian' nor are they in any way 'unChristian', yet there lifestyles and beliefs are definitely unChristian, and are no secret to the world, but are made clearly known to all their fans. My question is; is it wrong to listen to their music because of their lifestyle's even though there is nothing wrong with the lyrics themselves, or is it only wrong when the lyrics are obscene, perverse and unChristian?

*Sigh.*

This topic has been brought up before, and all that happens is people yelling at people. Or, more specifically, me yelling at people. I don't believe that it is wrong to listen to secular music, but I know several users here have greatly differing opinions than I. And, since I don't want to get any more involved than I already have, I will leave my opinion there, and you may say as you wish about it. Ta.

BDoggy, everything here is a potential "siren" song. Remember Ulysses, having his seaman strap him to the mast but leaving his ears unplugged, so that he could have his cake and eat it too--listen to the Siren beauties sunning themselves on the shoals, but not fall victim to their wiles...

Everthing here, not just the vississitudes of music, is a siren song, luring you away from the beat of a different drummer--getting you to think about other things, getting you to change your plans, getting you to change your priorites.

We must walk to the beat of a different drummer, to the song of a different "siren", the man Jesus Christ.

I think when you make that comparison, between what you know to be true, and what you are listening to or indulging, you'll be able to spot the difference(s).

Of course, Sapphire, like the rest of us, is working through all of this too. So you have stuff like, um, "people suck" on his masthead there, for instance...

...um...

Ahem.

sapphire-um, actually i have no intention of turning this into an argument in any way. why in the world would i get angry at someone simply because they share their opinion, that is the whole reason i asked the question; because i want to get other people's perspectives on the issue. if you don't like people yelling at people (and neither do i) then here is a simple solution; don't yell at them. besides, my question was not weather it is right or wrong to listen to secular music, as i myself said i dont think music is wrong simply because the artist is not labeled, 'Christian'. my question was more specific than that.

here, let me give you an example; i really didn't want to mention a specific band, but i think it will help to make my point; i have always been a big fan of 'Tool'. i dont know if any of you guys are familiar with their music, but i can almost gaurantee that you have all heard of them. Tool's most recent album, 'Lateralus' contains no obscene or offensive language at all. not one swear, and the songs on the album have, in my opinion, pretty positive messages. some of the issues that are addressed in the album are; forgiveness towards others, communicating with others & not keeping your feelings to yourself, keeping hope & not giving up in the midst of life's trials, and embracing life & being thankful for each moment that you have. i personally dont find any of these subjects to be the least bit offensive or immoral, but i also know that the members of Tool are professing atheists, and are very actively involved in drugs; this is just an example, but in this case, the lyrics are fine, but the lifestyles & beliefs of the band is not consistent with a Christian world view, so would it be wrong to listen to this music or not? i will greatly appreciate anyone who cares to share their opinions, and i can assure you that nobody's opinion will make me angry in any way.

I would say that if the music doesn't contain immorality *and* it doesn't lead you away from the Lord in your thought life, then it sounds pretty harmless. (Another consideration are the images that come with the album.) I personally like the band Creed, which you would think is a Christian band if you didn't know more about them personally. They're not, but there are a lot of Christian themes in there because Scott Stapp's parents were Baptists, if I'm remembering it right. Well, actually I can't remember if it was Baptist, but it was a Christian church. I can't remember offhand. (Stapp is the lead singer.)

But these days I listen to Christian music almost exclusively, because I think it's more beneficial to me, not just to have lyrics that don't lead me away from God, but ones that lead me directly to His heart. Not that one is wrong, it's just the other is more beneficial to me in coming closer to my Lord. But that's my personal decision. If you need a break and want to take some downtime, if the music doesn't put your thinking in a way that offends God *and* the lyrics don't wear on His ears, then why not?

Yep, as long as you're "walking in the Word", you'll be taking things on a case by case basis, called "discernment".

"Only take care lest this liberty of yours somehow become a stumbling block to the weak." I Corinth. 8:9

Few things are really that "evil" in and of themselves. 'Tho of late increasingly it seems much of the popular media, including entertainment, is literally laced with perversion.

But, you'll have to look at the context. In order to examine the "context", you'll have to practice discernment.

And in order to know discernment, you'll have to know Who gives that disernment("The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge..." Prov. 1:7)--and the better you know Him, through study of HIs Word and daily obedience, the better you'll become at spotting these things.

"Caught doing good" or "What Would Jesus Do" is a good governing principal.

But it's very difficult--tho tempting--to categorically dismiss this practice, or that practice. The danger is becoming legalistic, or dogmatic, or "religious"...

And for those who are, perhaps we need to be patient, or kind...

I see nothing wrong with secular music. Nothing that isn’t wrong about Christian music. The only Christians bands that actually sing songs about god and how great he is are the bands like the former DC Talk and all their spin offs, and to these bands, it is all about manipulating the emotions of the Christian public for money. The other Christian band spend have their time being goofy and remaking Veggietales songs and don’t even talk about God in their music half the time! Christian music, give me a break, there is no suck thing anymore!

wow! thanx so much for all your insights.

whitehorse-yeah, i thought creed was a christian band for the longest time, until i saw (or maybe read) an interview where the lead singer was asked if they were a christian band, and he actually started laughing because of the comment. creed has some beautiful imagery in their songs though. i'd have to say my favorite of their songs is, 'my own prison'. and good point also about listening to music that isn't merely non-offensive, but beneficial as well.

symphony-you're right. the more we fill our minds with God's word, the better we'll know what not to put into our minds.

sapphire-yeah, i would definitely recommend lateralus. it is dramatically different than their other albums. they almost sound like a completely different band all together. all the dark imagery, the excessive swearing(Aenima), the drugs(My Third Eye), the anti-Christian lyrics(Eulogy) is all gone. lateralus actually has alot of positive, uplifting songs, and personally, although i'm sure it was not Tool's intentions, when i listen to this album, i almost cant help but to reflect on my relationship with God. trust me, it's a great album.(track 8 kinda sux, but thats it)

tibby-good point about the bands who call themselves, 'Christian'. not that i am in any way judging the people in the band(s), but it's true, we need to use discernment not just with secular music, but 'Christian' music as well.

well, again thanx to all you guys. i think this has helped me out. ;)

Creed actually started out Christian, but went secular.

Don't worry, I only judge bands that I know about. the reason I used DC Talk, because they are clearly all about money, and emotional maniplation of the Christian public to get it. Power and money can do all kinds of thinks to a person, and they don't even see it half the time. DC Talk is a sell-out band, they changed genra, and for what? Money, it is all about money! At least Tool admitts they are a corprate band!

Please! Have you heard their music when they first started? Have you seen pictures of them when they first started. I mean old school 80’s rap! And then they just up and switch to rock, when old school Rap goes out of style. There is only one reason you change genre that drastically, Money! I mean, Rap is, and rock is cool, but when you switch, you sell out, and you sell out for ONE reason, you want to stay around. And you do that for one reason. MONEY!

I didn't like Jesus Freak. It seemed like they had been a boy band-ified!

The Newsboys where good when they first came out, everything after "take me to your leader" was a waste of digial coding. TMTYL wasn't even as good as everything before it. They were trying to brake out of the Petra mold, it sounded like, they only ended up breaking a few ear drums and there credability.

Rule of keeping your band alive #2346: When your fan base is full of left over Petra fans, you don't make a disco ablum, otherwise your fans are going to be more alienated then the cover of Take me to your leader!

It's actually a tough call and I can't say I think much of the modern "christian music".

How could anyone think creed was even worth listening to let alone christian. Was it the giant tatoo of a croos on his arm? Was it their obsession to have the "singer" topless all the time? So much for being in modest apparel I guess. ::)

Tool, well considering they're pretty anit-christian with lyrics like Jesus blows his f****** whistle, something form the past is done. Yeah that's good stuff to listen to. :-X We won't even go into their pictures.

I don't think the comment on DCtalk (however horrible they are) is fair to say that because you switch styles you sold out. I don't know if they did or not, I just now know the trash I heard from them was enough to never listen to anything else again.

All in all I think it comes down to discernment really. If it seems questionable then just move on. It's safer that way. I have been invovled in music for 15 years, played in symphonic, orchestral, marching band in my school days and also played in a secular band for just over 8 years. More opften than not you're better off without secular music and sticking to the good ole hymns and conservative christian music. I can tell you most of the current "christian music" I hear sounds now different form secular music and they sing about themselves all the time and not God. Most people seem to want to have their secular music by calling the band christian, it doesn't work if you're honest with yourself.

What a topic! And sooooo many opinions. Well, I'll add mine to the collection.

What I'll say here I have no scripture to support, it's just something that I've observed in life. Prior to my salvation I was a huge Billy Joel fan. I was convinced that to be saved, I'd have to give that up, partly because it was what I was being taught, and partly because it had a level of truth to it. The truthful part was that I was holding on to another "god." I wanted my music and was not willing to come to God...until my music was of little importance by comparison. I needed God. I wanted my music. So I gave up Billy.

Later on I ran into people who didn't hold to my "Mac and Beth Lynch" philosophy of music! They actually listened to CCM and liked it! When I tried to point out a few points about it, they responded angrily - not with the loving fellowship that believers should respond in. I began to see that in many people's lives music is either a "god" or an idol. It was at that point that I began to approach music with this understanding: If it took my God's place, it was wrong. If I could not, or would not turn it off for whatever reason, it was wrong. Music is very controlling and "feel-good." People don't want to give it up! I think that is why so many people struggle with what is right and what isn't. Point being, if it takes His place, regardless of style, it's wrong.

I personally am a country fan. I like Alan Jackson and Lonestar! Yeeeeeeeeehhhhhaaaaaawwwww!!! But, my hand is never at a point where I cannot change the channel if something I hear lyrically does not honor my Father. As for the lifestyles of the artists...we're all sinners, and some of us are saved by grace! Does that help?

Okay, so what you're really saying is that *you* liked their old style, and *you* are disappointed that they didn't stay with what you liked. Why didn't you just say that?

Quote from: Tibby on July 15, 2003, 01:14:45 AM

I didn't like Jesus Freak. It seemed like they had been a boy band-ified

Boy band??? I don't think you understand what that means, or else you didn't listen to Jesus Freak. It was completely grunge. Even the artwork, which Kmax designed himself.

saved_4ever said, "Tool, well considering they're pretty anit-christian with lyrics like Jesus blows his f****** whistle, something form the past is done. Yeah that's good stuff to listen to. We won't even go into their pictures."

"yeah, i would definitely recommend lateralus. it is dramatically different than their other albums. they almost sound like a completely different band all together. all the dark imagery, the excessive swearing(Aenima), the drugs(My Third Eye), the anti-Christian lyrics(Eulogy) is all gone. lateralus actually has alot of positive, uplifting songs, and personally, although i'm sure it was not Tool's intentions, when i listen to this album, i almost cant help but to reflect on my relationship with God. trust me, it's a great album.(track 8 kinda sux, but thats it)"

maybe you skipped over that post.

The old hyms. Yes, that's where the meat and potatoes are. Now those people understood the faith on a very deep level. *singing* A mighty fortress is our God, a bulwark never failing...

Today it's, I am a C... I am a C-h...I am a C-h-r-i-s-t-i-a-n! And I've got C-h-r-i-s-t in my h-e-a-r-t and I will l-i-v-e e-t-e-rn-a-l-l-y!

Hm.

But for anyone who likes praise music, I do highly recommend Third Day's Offerings. I haven't heard Offerings 2 yet, but the first is very powerful. It puts my spirit in the perfect condition to pray, and...let's just say I highly recommend what it can do to your prayer life.

See, Saved, all this time you thought we had nothing in common. :-D Come

Quote from: Whitehorse on July 15, 2003, 05:41:49 PM

Sapphire, the prominent bass, the power chords...grunge.

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Or metal, or punk, or Funk, or ska, or industeral, etc, etc.

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The flannels and boots.

yeah, grunga, or punk, or Lumberjacks, or a boy band who is taking the ventage look WAY to far :-D

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The imagery on the album. How do you define grunge?

6 pence and PFR and Shaded Red and the Normals have albums like that, are they grunge?

Boy bands pose as other styles all the time. The copy the rock and rap styles, in an effort to look cool.

But we both liked the album, so they must have done something right! ;)
They signed my Supernatural album. Awwwww. I liked it, too. I like the song Dive. It's scary, but in a good way. I also have Michael's solo album. (His band is called Tait) I have Empty. I love the heavy sound. It just appeals somehow.

OKAY! Question for all you DCTalk listeners. Are they or are they not getting back together, despite what they've said so often in the past? Will Michael and KMax ever get along? Mind you, I haven't kept up on the details for a while...so maybe they are and I just don't know it! ;)

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Fellowship => You name it!! => Topic started by: BDoggy on July 12, 2003, 04:39:20 PM