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Is being non-charismatic merely a "Declaration of Independence" or are there Scriptural reasons for not wanting to be so?  Is being ignorant justified?
This is a sincere question since it may come up in our Bible class.

This is just to check being notified

I am ex-charismatic

Thank You Jesus

 ;D

Thank you for your response.
May I ask you how could become an ex?
Scriptures say the gifts of God are without repentence.

I do not recall anyone ever saying they were ex- charismatic.

I am using the term "charismatic" as having been baptized in the Holy Spirit by the Baptizer, Jesus Christ.

Can one become unbaptized?

thanks again for your response.  I am here to learn.

"charismatic" makes me think of the "charismatic" movement, and all the hype. Healings, tongues, slaying the spirit, the dog and pony show type of stuff. I can't speak for Ambassador4Christ but I'm betting he's thinking along these lines.

                                                              Paul2

Yes, I agree there have been some extremes in the charismtic movement since God does not require maturity nor emotional stability.  Maturity and understanding can come later.  I have been involved in having been baptized in the Holy Spirit for now 26 years and I have never seen the extremes you refer to.  However, I have seen many who lives were miraculous transformed as attested to in my website.
http://home.san.rr.com/healing/miracles.htm

All He requires is obedience - to be thirsty.  John7:37-39

I think it is tragic that so few can turn off so many.

I just read there are an estimated 150,000,000 charismatic Catholics.  How many are there who have discredited the movement by their lack of judgement?

Hi, Bro. Weeks.  Welcome back.  NIce to hear from you.

I think charismatic implies a broad range of meanings.

Maybe ideally, we're all spirit-indwelled Christians, in our obedience to Jesus Christ.  How that becomes expressed is probably a variable among all of us?

Take me, for instance.  Sometimes I'm just a charismatic putty tat:

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0aQDLAogcTY9OawM226GhLtJC1L7hxXX48LTBgNpmHVrv7JvMMttNCdUx*zmBP*Kn*TSoMfGw*9esto6W28VnsA!2YhHigB1PLhoyjgZsSRzXHTWDq6hpYDB5e6ZGPP88U6lkzaFiMJWyiEiuzGHPENZZw0n78GmA/!cid_90D976EE-82D3-11D7-A398-444553540000.gif?dc=4675424370240644868)

Other times I'm just a timid whittle charismatic tweety bird...

(http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RgDdAsEVUBU8dzl3AKVls1h8HAxP7k9tR1usfIFV5vLNftC3jYJckCmbWQ2pR4Vp1vW2DvikhTncKbz7tuoMVSVRCTGR*m7IAAuiH1gPpKE/tweety.gif?dc=4675415696575060956)

If that is your whole definition of charismatic, then I think most Christians would put (or hope) themselves within that group.
However, I don't think that is what most people understand by the word charismatic.

Maybe you could unpack this a bit.

Oh, and "are you just ignorant or what?" doesn't sound much like a sincere question.

I am always sincere but I do like to chide.

There seems to be more warnings than words of encouragement about this that i am trying to balance out.

I am not here to upset you or others, I am ex-charismatic, I never would want to be a  charismatic again.

Grace & Peace

charismatic "No Way"

Brother Love :)

hall weeks,

I was reading this thread, and it reminded me, this term, became famous, by the the use of it within the Catholic church.

What is interesting, is that these manifestations, are similar to movemenst in the protestant churchs, which seek these signs.

What I find also, interesting is that in every case, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is always refferred to as;

Baptism of the Holy Spirit or Baptism by the Holy Spirit.

Yet, John the Baptist, refferred to it ,as the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

I was under the impression, this was pretty well, dead within thre Catholic church, is it still, something which is excersized therein??


Petro

I understand that there has been not letup in the charismatic movement within the Catholic church.  Although it started there, it is now estimated there are over 250,000,000 "charismatics" worldwide.  One of the fastest growing denominations is the Assemblies of God, which is Pentecostal or charismatic.
As I understand the meaning of the word "baptism" it means to immerse or dip.  Therefore the prefered expression seems to be baptism in the Holy Spirit.  Baptism by the Holy Spirit suggests that the Holy Spirit is the baptizer when it actually is Jesus.  Baptism with the Holy Spirit suggests it is a joint experience.
However, what is most importand is to understand its purpose.  John 7:37-39 are the verses I use when praying with someone to receive it.  Pentecost is what empowered the early church to preach the gospel.  I see no less need today.

Also ex-Assemblies of God

Thank You Jesus

Let me just clarify a little:

Pentecostal and charismatic are not interchanged. I’m Charismatic, and  my Charismatic Denomination is very liturgical in nature, and if you know the Pentecostal, you know liturgical masses are not in there nature! Don’t confuse the Charismatic giftings with the emotionally run and money driven Charismatic movement. The giftings are real, the movement was/is an exploitation if those giftings and the emotions of the people who use them. The problem with the movement is all the loons in it, and all the Nuts who try to capitalize on the loons. Both give the rest of us a bad name.

The Roman Catholics do have a strong Charismatic group. As many Catholics read Charisma (the largest Charismatic periodical) as Pentecostals. The reason this movement within the Roman church hasn’t gotten out of hand, as some of the other churches has, is for 2 reasons. The first one is, again, they have probably the most structured, liturgical meetings out of any Denomination, and there is no time set aside for Ministry of that nature unless the Clergy make it. Secondly, while these Charismatic churches can break off in to “independent” church and play with snakes or sprinkle glitter and claim it is gold flakes from God, the Roman Catholic Church is a single, strong, governing body that has Priest set aside for the sole purpose for testing and researching these “works of God” and they weed out the Benny Hen wanta-be’s before they can get rolling.

Could someone please tell me what charismatic means?

CHARISMATIC, pronounced like the char in character, comes from the word charisma, “a divinely conferred gift of power.” In Biblical terms it refers to the special miraculous gift of the Pentecostal era, such as healing and speaking in tongues.


Brother Love :)

I believe the number one problem with charismatic theology is the dogmatic "practice" of gifts no longer given.  I find it very interesting that Paul begins speaking on spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12, then puts in the love chapter, then concludes in chapter 14 (more or less).  Contextually, the love chapter is in regards to the use of the gifts.  It is in this chapter that Paul makes reference to "that which is perfect" coming.  There are those who attribute this to Christ, though I have yet to find biblical support for this view.  I believe it to be referring to the scriptures, as do many others.

I tend to see charismatics as feeling based believers, rather than scripturally sound and practicing believers.  That's not to say that they don't read their bibles!  But rather, when their bibles disagree with their practice, they chose the feeling over the fact.  Conversely, I know many Baptists who, in fear of being coined as a charismatic, live lives devoid of the joy and feeling that obedience can and does provide.

“For the Jews require a sign” (1. Corinthians 1:22), “An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign” (Matthew 12:39). “They said therefore unto Him, “What sign shewest Thou then, that we may see, and believe thee?” (John 6:30). “Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe” (John 4:48).

In His dealings with His earthly people, Israel, God gave them three notable signs: (1) The sign of the virgin birth of His Son –Isiah 7:14; (2) Sign of the resurrection of Christ Matthew 12:39; (3) Speaking in tongues during the period from Pentecost to 70 A.D. Tongues were a sign, not to believers, but to unbelievers—1. Corinthians 14:22. These were not Gentiles, but unbelieving Jews, “this people”—Isiah 28:11 and 1. Corinthians 14:21.

Brother Love :)

DITTO ;D

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!!! And AMEN!!!

Bro Love,

Good Point;

Signs and Wisdom...neither will get anybody anywhere.

1 Cor 12
19  For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20  Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21  For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22  For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23  But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24  But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25  Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26  For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27  But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
 
Signs and Wisdom without Understanding will never get anyone to God.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.  (1 Cor 2:14)

16  .... Jesus said,  Are ye also yet without understanding?
17  Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18  But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19  For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Unless God thru the Spirit, opens a mans understanding, to understand the scriptures, men will remain blind and ignorant of what the mystery of God is..

And CharismatISM, PentacostalISM, and every other kind if ISM they esxcercise is futile..


Blessings,
Petro

Amen and amen!  Again, I believe there was a practical side to the gift of tongues as well.  They knew in part, and spoke in part.  There was a need to bring the word to others who did not necessarily speak the same language.  It is also interesting, that to one was given the gift of tongues, and to another the gift of interpreting tongues.  The purpose was always for the communication of the word - not for communication.

QUOTE Petro:

Unless God thru the Spirit, opens a mans understanding, to understand the scriptures, men will remain blind and ignorant of what the mystery of God is..

And CharismatISM, PentacostalISM, and every other kind if ISM they esxcercise is futile..


Amen Brother


Brother Love :)

Another Amen for you Petro

1. Tongues in the Bible were known languages, not gibberish.

2. Tongues were a sign to unbelieving Jews, never to convince Gentiles or the Church. The Jews are a sign people – 1. Cor. 1:22.

3. Tongues were to cease when their need as a sign was fulfilled – 1. 13:8.

4. Not every believer spoke in tongues, only specially gifted ones – 1. Cor 12:30.

5. Never a sign of spirituality, but rather lack of it. Never practiced in any of the spiritual assemblies, only in carnal Corinth.

6. In the Bible, no woman ever spoke in tongues. Think what this would do to the modern tongues movement! In Acts 1:14, “These all” is in the masculine gender in the Greek, showing that only the men prayed, although women were present. in the big chapter on tongues, 1. Cor. 14, the women are explicitly forbidden to speak, in verse 34.

7. Our Lord Jesus Christ never spoke in tongues! Nor did the Apostle Paul at the time of his conversion. Tongues had nothing to do with salvation.

Brother Love :)

I agree