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I have read many essay`s on this subject, the following (ref:link) being the most indepth. If anyone has factual information or studies I`d appreciate your sharing them here.

Many people do not even know that Freemasonry exists, and yet its members run a significant part of the western world's business, politics, government, armies, police forces, publishing and media, and even churches and religion.

A note: One cannot become a Freemason, without acknowledging a "faith" of some kind. But, as former Freemasons have witnessed, even a Satanist can become a Freemason (at least in the USA). And then, one must understand that most of this world's religions and churches, in reality do not worship the true God who is in Heaven but someone else instead.

Diabolic, Orwellian double-speak.

When a "Christian" preacher who secretly is a Freemason (there are thousands of such preachers in "Christian" churches) says "Amen", he may actually be referring to the Egyptian sun-god Amen (also called Amun, Amon and Ammon). And, when he says "Lord" or "Adonai" or "God", he may actually refer to the Freemasons' "lord" and "god" (the sun-god; ultimately Satan).

When a preacher of that kind says "Christ", he probably refers to the Freemasons' "anointed one" (the Greek word christos meant "anointed"). Also, when a preacher of that kind talks about "the paraclete" or about "the holy ghost", he may be referring to another spirit, to the spirit whom the Freemasons hold to be "holy", that is, Satan's spirit. (And yes, some "lower" Freemasons may be at least partially unaware of these things, but that does not make things any better.)

And, when a Freemason preacher speaks about "the Eternal", most probably even that is a part of such "double-speak". That is, he probably referring to the Eterna-snake, a symbol of the Freemasons' sun-god (ultimately, Satan). Consequently, when he speaks about "Eternal life", that may mean "life in Eterna". And, his "Eternal gospel" may be that of their Eterna (Satan). There are many other things of the same kind but, may the above-mentioned things be enough for now.

That some Freemason lodges have a KJ version bible on their altars, may in part be something that is meant to deceive naive people into becoming Freemasons, by causing them to think that Freemasonry supposedly is "Christian" or "bible-based". It is not. (A note: There are Freemason lodges also for Moslems, Jews, and for people of other religions as well. Even Satanists can become Freemasons, at least in some countries. And then, most of "Christianity" is of course nothing but a modified version of Constantine's worship of the sun-god Mithra.)
 But, there are preachers who through their writings try to make people think that the idol worshipped by the Freemasons supposedly is the "true God". Freemasonry and Freemason ideas are found in a lot of "Christian" churches to one degree or another; in the western, non-Catholic world perhaps in most of them. More: A lot of churches, small and great, have been founded by Freemasons.


edited to add: I`m not sure if this subject has already been discussed here, or if it`s allowable topic of discussion, i`m simply interested in learning more.  :-\

Entire article - http://www.biblepages.web.surftown.se/ew04b.htm

I don't know how paranoid we should be about the FreeMasons.  I know a few.  Some wear rings and they have special handshake.  They might not keep it a secret that they are members but they keep what they do at their meetings secret.  

I don't think Christians should join secret organizations.  There can often become a conflict with their true Christian faith.  

Churches might include having to disclose any memberships in secret societies when signing a "code of conduct" if they are concerned about this kind of "double speak" and idolatry.

It is just too bad that men are not finding the fellowship, leadership and opportunity to improve themselves from THE CHURCH that they feel they need to join secret societies.

I agree with you M except for your use of the word "paranoid."  Is it paranoia to strive to be fully aware of the truth about any organization that has professing "Christians" as members?  What you refer to as paranoia is what I would call underestimating the enemy, and Freemasonry appears to be a very large and deceitful one!

I have a specific reason for broaching this subject but I`ll bring that up later, here`s a quick side-track to this authors message:

"Any Christian church or ministry which is growing through effective evangelism and maturity will be targeted by the enemy of our souls, and his agents. We at Jubilee have had several failed attempts at infiltration by a member of a coven One person, when exposed, admitted they had wrecked over a dozen churches and ministries.

What we have confirmed, and need to warn others about, is how these people infiltrate churches. More often than not, it may be a single woman who has recently moved into a town (we just heard of a male with the same agenda the other week) and seems to have a very good knowledge of the Bible - better than most Christians. Leaders are always desperate for volunteers, especially those which show some initiative and experience. This person is often given a responsible position because they are available.

We plead with Christian leaders, please pause and do some discerning first. Find out about their previous church. Contact the pastor there. Ask the questions. What was the fruit of their ministry? Did any church member complain about what they did or said, if so, what and why? It used to be you couldn't join a church unless you had a letter of introduction from your previous church - a practise sorely needed today.

Let me give some examples of infiltration we have experienced over recent months.

1. Children's Work - where they were able to lay hands on the children for a spiritual impartation not acceptable in a Christian church. I'm not talking about sexual abuse either, although that can happen too. They may promote Harry Potter, Pokemon and other occultism to the children. Children are both teachable, and very trusting.

2. Prayer or Intercessory Groups - the person concerned was made responsible to coordinate the four differently-focused prayer groups in a medium-sized Evangelical church. This person amalgamated them all, confused the focus of the prayer, and effectively deprived this church of its prayer cover. It then experienced major disruption and a split.

3. Finances - We saw this in a church in Canada recently. The infiltrator was put in charge of the finances. For every plan for evangelism, or training congregation members for prayer ministry etc., the excuse used was "we can't afford it". There was sufficient money, but depriving finance killed many of God's plans at the time. The leaders are now much wiser.

4. Individuals With An Agenda - Sometimes they will infiltrate as a person with many problems - even claiming to have come out of witchcraft. They then fill up the pastor's diary with "Counselling Appointments," but there never seems to be a breakthrough, the fruits of the Holy Spirit are just not present. These are the time-wasters to divert your energy from the work of the Lord.

I am not interested in "Witch-hunts" but am called to expose those sworn to see our defeat, and defend the lambs in the flock of God. We serve a big and powerful God. We need discernment and wisdom. We must not be complacent.

Caution! If you suspect a possible infiltrator in your church, go to the Lord in prayer, asking for discernment, and His wisdom to handle things. Seek to convert them first.

Ray Comfort reads Revelations 20:10 to them, explains that is where their boss is going, and asks if they really want to join him? I personally have found this to be a good way to shake them up prior to conversion, or exposing and removing.

Yes, I know what some of you are thinking - "a curse without a cause cannot alight" (Proverbs 26:2), but which of us is truly holy and without sin? God's grace may protect us more than we realise, supported by the faithful prayers of our people.

Churches which are not doing anything effective for the Kingdom of God will not usually be targeted by covens, because they aren't a threat to their boss. If you want to be a threat, start a prayer group focused on real needs, equip and release your people in evangelism, mercy ministries, praying for healing, deliverance, etc. You'll get noticed, so trust the Lord.

I recall speaking in a large Pentecostal church in a major NZ city a while back. The Eldership had asked me to speak on the occult - not a frequently requested topic to preach on. Following the service I met a woman who had been born into a coven where her mother was a witch. She herself had a baby which was intended to be sacrificed on a high night such as Halloween. The problem for the coven was that she became a Christian through some effective evangelism in a high school. Despite her doubts prior to the service about my grasp of the subject, she listened and then confirmed the accuracy of what I had taught. She then told me the church leadership had dismissed her claim that several covens were targeting that church because it was impacting that community. I told her they would seek to engineer a church split, or they would target the senior pastor's marriage. In fact both had occurred during the previous 12 months, confirmed by local mature Christian leaders the week following my visit there."
It appears in the latter example  the Church leadership dismissed her claim as paranoid.  ::)

Hos 4:6  My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:

excert from -Assignments from The Enemy Camp
© Selwyn Stevens, M.C.R., Ph.D.

AMEN, yes this thing is real!!
My husband and I have a friend and he is saved yet he is blinded and can not see these strong facts about this evil cult.
I have sent him the information about "what believers should know" I just have to pray now. Because my husband has tried to come to him in love all different ways but he seems to refuse to believe certain things. It might take for him to reach a certain level to see this is a eveil cult. I just pray the Spirit convicts and confirms before he gets in deep.
Pray with me.
Thank you so much everyone for the very detailed information.

I had some run with masions recently and let me tell you there was nothing free about it! It cost 3600.00 to repair NOT replace a section of wall I accedently knock down with my truck.. And you can totaly tell they did a shotty patch job.. Does anyone know who we report to?

 :D

Bronzesnake

Freemasonry is a rather nebuious and intriguing concept.  Surprisingly incepted by many as a "Christian ideal" or at the very least acceptable.  

Makes one wonder how in this age of internet access more Christians do not investigate before they jump into shark laden waters.  It only takes moments to surf google - how full of grace God is - He gives us these means to take the time to dig into all the theologies and doctrines floating around the church to measure up His Word - the only and ultimate source of Truth and Light.

Why do Christians refuse to study as a Berean and choose to drink poison just because it is labeled as freedom in the Holy Spirit and in the Name of Jesus   ???

Freemasonry is based on the occult, it is also linked to Jewish mysticism or kabbalah.  It you want graphic links, I have them.  This one is user friendly  ;D

note:  Albert Pike is the "Father of Masonry" his book is considered the "Masonic Bible".

QUOTE:
Now, let us consider Masonic teaching on Jesus Christ. I will be quoting from Albert Pike's monumental work, "Morals And Dogma of the Ancient And Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry," considered by many to be the absolute authority of Freemasonry. Pike systematically enumerates the specific doctrines of Degrees 1-32.

What does Freemasonry believe about Jesus Christ?

Albert Pike states the following doctrine concerning Jesus Christ in Chapter 26, or the 26th Degree, "Prince Of Mercy, or Scottish Trinitarian". On page 562-3, we see that the thought of a Supreme Being unknown to the Human race [God] produced the Universe which "produced the Spirit, the Mother of the Living, and Wisdom of God. Together with this Primitive Existence, Matter existed also ... eternal ..."

"Buthos and His Thought, uniting with Wisdom, made her fruitful by the Divine Light, and she produced a perfect and an imperfect being, Christos, and a Second and inferior Wisdom, Sophia-Achamoth, who falling into chaos remained entangled there, became enfeebled, and lost all knowledge of the Superior Wisdom that gave her birth. Communicating movement to chaos, she produced Ialdaboath, the Demiourgos, Agent of Material Creation ... Ialdabaoath produced an angel that was his image, and this a second, and son on in succession to the sixth after the Demiourgos ... Ialdabaoath, to become independent of his mother, and to pass for the Supreme Being, made the world, and man in his own image; and his mother caused the Spiritual principle to pass from him into man so made; and henceforward the contest between the Demiourgos and his mother, between light and darkness, good and evil, was concentrated in man."

"And the image of Ialdabaoth, reflected upon matter, became the Serpent-Spirit, Satan, the Evil Intelligence. Eve, created by Ialdabaoth, had by his Sons children that were angels like themselves. The Spiritual light was withdrawn from man by Sophia, and the world surrendered to the influence of evil; until the Spirit, urged by the entreaties of Wisdom, induced the Supreme Being to send Christos to redeem it. Compelled, despite himself, by his Mother, Ialdabaoth caused the man Jesus to be born of a Virgin; and the Celestial Savior, uniting with his Sister, Wisdom, descended through the regions of the seven angels ... and entered with his sister into the man Jesus at the baptism in Jordan."

"Ialdabaoth, finding that Jesus was destroying his empire and abolishing his worship, caused the Jews to hate and crucify Him; before which happened, Christos and Wisdom had ascended to the celestial regions. They restored Jesus to life and gave Him an ethereal body, in which He remained eighteen months on earth, and receiving from Wisdom the perfect knowledge {... Gnosis}, communicated it to a small number of His apostles, and then arose to the intermediate region inhabited by Ialdabaoth, where, unknown to him, He sits at his right hand, taking from him the Souls of Light purified by Christos. When nothing of the spiritual world shall remain subject to Ialdabaoth, the redemption will be accomplished, and the end of the world, the completion of the return of Light into the Plenitude, will occur."

[con't]

[con't]

I have gone to the effort to reproduce virtually the entire text of these 11/2 pages, from the bottom of page 562 to the top of page 564, so you can get the full flavor of this text, and so that I cannot be accused of "taking out of context".

Let us now go back to p. 562, at the beginning. We find that:

An unknown God created the Universe with His thought
Thought produced Spirit, who is the Mother of the Living
This Mother of the Living then produced Christos, who was both perfect and imperfect {While this seems contradictory, it is not, to the Pagan way of thinking. The world is conceived of both Positive and Negative Forces, equal and opposite.

 Therefore, Christos was both positive and negative in equal measure. Christos is also known as the Christ Consciousness, the heretical Gnostic invention, against which the early Christian Church struggled mightily. It literally means the Divine side of Jesus. Rather than Jesus being 100% God and 100% Man at the same time, as the Bible teaches,

Freemasonry teaches that Jesus was a human being only; at the time of the baptism in the River Jordan, the Christ Consciousness descended upon Jesus, making Him the Messiah, and then left Him at the cross. But, always, there are two distinct entities, Jesus Man and the Christ Consciousness Divinity. John identifies this separation of Jesus Man and His Godhood as the spirit of Antichrist.}
Then, Mother of the Living produced a Second, and inferior, wisdom, Sophia-Achamoth, who produced Ialdabaoth, after she had lost all of her Superior Wisdom. So, Ialdabaoth was definitely of an inferior rank.

Then, Ialdabaoth created seven angels, but still felt dependent upon his Mother, setting off a contest of wills between them, which was identified as the conflict between good and evil.
 
Then, the image of Ialdabaoth reflected upon matter and became the Serpent-Spirit, Satan the Evil Intelligence. Thus, Ialdaboath created Satan.

Ialdaboath then created Eve.

This created world then fell into the influence of evil
Then, God the unknown Supreme Being, sent the Christ Consciousness into this world in order to redeem it.
Then, despite his objections, Ialdabaoth was forced by his Mother to conceive Jesus in the womb of the Virgin. (Remember, Jesus' lineage, in this teaching, was of an Inferior line.
 
Note also that Ialdabaoth created both Jesus and Satan.
 
When Jesus was 30 years old, the Christ Consciousness and Wisdom descended into Jesus the man while He was being baptized in the River Jordan.

Ialdabaoth then turned upon Jesus The Christ and instigated his death on the cross.

At Jesus' death, the Christ Consciousness and Wisdom left Jesus' body and went back into the celestial regions.

The Christ Consciousness and Wisdom then restored Jesus to life, but gave him an ethereal body, not a physical one. (Jesus must have been a liar, because in Like 24:34-43, Jesus appeared to the disciples after His Resurrection; when the disciples thought they were seeing a spirit, not a fleshly body, Jesus emphatically stated that He was a body of "flesh and bones". He invited them to touch Him and then He ate fish, which a spirit could not do. This Freemason teaching makes Jesus a liar.)

Then, Jesus remained on earth 18 months in his celestial body, receiving further instruction from Wisdom, which he passed on to his disciples. (Ditto above discussion on the spirit "body".

This last segment about Jesus receiving instruction from Wisdom, is blasphemy, because Jesus, as God, knows everything from before He created the earth. He needs no instruction on any matter. Again, Jesus is blasphemed by making Him appear less than He is.)

Finally, after 18 months, Jesus arose to the region inhabited by Ialdabaoth, where he sat down at the right hand of Ialdabaoth, even though Ialdabaoth does not realize Jesus is sitting there. (This makes no sense, to think that a Superior Being as Ialdabaoth could not know that Jesus is sitting at his right hand on his throne!)
 
Jesus' function ever since has been to capture Souls of Light as they are purified by the Christos, the Christ Consciousness. (Again, Jesus is blasphemed, because this teaching takes the salvation of souls away from Jesus God, and places them in the Christ Consciousness.

Masonic teaching separates the physical, bodily Jesus from His Office of Messiah -- which they call Christ Consciousness -- making Jesus less than God. Where does it say that people will come who will try to separate Jesus' fleshly body from His God Nature? 1 John 4:3, states that those who try to deny that Jesus, the Messiah God, has come in the flesh is of the Antichrist. The original language literally means those people who would seek to separate Jesus God from the Jesus Man are of the Antichrist. This is exactly what this teaching does.)

It is difficult to list all the ways this Pagan teaching does damage to the Biblical account. During the above recounting of this teaching, I included some facts in parenthesis. But, I did not cover all the ground that needs to be covered concerning the blasphemy that this Masonic teaching does to Jesus Christ.

Whereas the Bible teaches that Jesus Christ is equal to the Father and has coexisted with Him from Eternity Past, this Masonic teaching states that God created the Universe and then created other beings, culminating with Ialdabaoth. This Ialdaboath then created other beings, including Eve. Eve was created before Jesus, according to this spurious Masonic teaching! This teaching further denies that Jesus was the Creator of all things as John 1:3 states.

In this world, called Earth, conflict erupted between Ialdabaoth and his Mother, starting the conflict between "Good" and "Evil". The Bible states that the conflict between good and evil began when Satan, speaking through the serpent, deceived Eve, who then convinced Adam to sin against God.

Then, to "redeem" mankind and this earth, God sent the Christ Consciousness and his sister, Wisdom, to the earth to raise the inhabitants of the earth to a higher level of spiritual consciousness, thus putting an end to this conflict. The Bible states that Jesus had determined to go to the Cross before He ever created this world. Jesus was not killed by a superior outside enemy; rather, Jesus went to the Cross according to His own plan to redeem mankind.

With God and his Mother putting a lot of pressure on Ialdaboath to fix his world Ialdaboath somehow created Satan by "reflecting on his image". The Bible states that Satan was a created being, created by God.

Finally, Ialdabaoth "caused the man Jesus to be born of a Virgin"!! Ialdabaoth created both Satan and Jesus!! Does that make them brothers? Does this sound like Mormonism? This teaching that Ialdaboath created both Satan and Jesus does, indeed, make them brothers, another blasphemy against Jesus! Jesus is God, infinitely greater than Satan. This teaching makes them equal, but opposite, another common Pagan teaching.

When Jesus was being baptized in Jordan, the Christ Consciousness and his Sister, Wisdom, descended from heaven to earth, to overpower the man, Jesus, making him Messiah. This is simply another blasphemy against Jesus God. The Bible states that men can be possessed by a demon, who can overpower them, making them do things that no one in their right mind would do. This blasphemous smells of demonic possession, another slight against Jesus. No demon, or hosts of demons, can ever defeat Jesus Christ. As John said, "Greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world."

After reviewing these blasphemous teachings about Jesus Christ, I ask the question, "How can any knowledgeable Christian become a Mason?"

Perhaps you are a Mason that has not been exposed to these teachings of the 26th Degree, and had no idea these teachings existed. But, now you know, and you will know much more in coming weeks; so, what are you going to do now? Are you going to stay a Mason?

http://www.cuttingedge.org/free001.html


another look at masonry:

http://www.angelfire.com/nt/dragon9/GOLDENDAWN.html

double post - sorry  :-[

I have a really good friend who I go to church with. He has done a very in depth study on Freemasons and their practices. Now, he has a power point presentation on CD of it and what the Masons are really about. If anyone wants a copy, let me know. PM with your info. Not sure if I can deliver, but I'll do my best.

Now, I'm not going to post a whole page of info here as I see a lot has been posted on the subject already. I haven't read through it all yet, but I will when time permits. I just want to add something that may or may not have been stated already. This was all I needed to hear to know that I and all Christians should avoid getting involved with free masonry:

It is against Masonic law to say Jesus in a Masonic Temple or at any Masons meeting.

I'll post a follow up in the next couple of days after my friend gets off of work and let anyone know if I can get a copy of his Masons power point presentation. If I can, I would be very happy to copy it and send it to anyone who wants it. I believe he also has one on the Mormon church. I'll see what I can do.

God Bless,
Robert

cool, robert - I would like to see both power points [whatever that is :)] hopefully it is in written form???  hope I am not sounding too ignorant :)

thanx and shalom, nana

You stated that "Satanists" can join the Freemasons....Isnt that true with anything? Isnt it true with Politicians, Pastors, Church Members, Police Officers.....
I am a born again Christian and I did my fair share of research on the masons thinking that they were apart of he evil plan of society.....Its a fraternity nothing more and nothing less....So that woould mean that over 70% of our USA Presidents are demonic, including Geroge W. because he is a Freemason and was a member of the Skull and Bones....
The lodge I plan to join has 75% senior citizens who work and play cards and live normal lives....If there is any type of conspirecy (sp) it is with the Masons all over the world of politics...and that my friend is once again "POLITICIANS" who happen to be freemasons and who use that clout to push agenda....
Yes you can believe in ANY god of your choosing....So what...People you work with are probably into diffeent Gods and witchcraft, does that stop you from working? Be in the World, but not of it....What about the boyscouts....The Freemasons created that organization...Are they demonic?

Might as well talk about area 51 as well...I never met a Mason who knew what was going on under ground......
Get off the conspirecy lick, Remember, People think that Born Again Christians are just as nutts...Speaking in Tounges, Hugging, Raising their hands, God spoke to them, and so on.....
Its all about interpretation....
Freemasons are for the most part fine, but there are always BAD EGGS, and that is the same in our church, Those preachers and Pastors who do it for the money and their own power

Freemasonry is it's own "religion"...cult is the term I prefer. Yes, anyone can join, but they have their own services and what not. Now, let me ask you this storm, when you go and join your local freemason's lodge, will you tell them you want no part of the initiations? Things such as the ceremonial stabbings, slit throats and the like? Those aren't things that only the "bad eggs" lodges do. Those are fundamental Masonic rituals and beliefs. You should really do more research before you commit to something like the Masons. If you want more info, just do a Google search and see what you come up with. Your very salation may depend on it.

God Bless,
Robert

Storm, if you want research on freemasonry from a Christian perspective, I would advise you to contact and/or look the works of one, Dr. Ron Carleson, including one particular little gem called "Fast Facts on False Teachings". You'd be pretty amazed at some of the facts Dr. Carleson pulls from the very texts the masons hold dear. Another book you might want to look up is, "The God Makers" by Ed Decker. The fact is, you cannot be a Christian and still be a mason. Let me quote just a little bit for you.

Of Freemansonry, "Fast Facts" says this.


Tell me, are you aware of what must happen should you wish to join the masonic lodge, or some of the blood oaths (things clearly forbidden in Scripture) you must bind yourself under?

For example, one oath begins this way (and this is a direct quote).


When a new mason goes to the second degree, or the Fellowcraft degree of Masonry, the oach includes the following words...

.

And then in the third degree, or Master Mason's degree, every mason must swear an oath that includes the following:


Even when one first begins to undergo innitiation, he is blindfolded, a noose wrapped around his neck and he is led by swordpoint before a man known as the worshipful master. He must then say something like, "I am lost in darkness and seeking the light of freemasonry." He is then told that he is entering into a secret organization and he must keep the secrets he is going to be taught.
At this time, he is required to take a blood innitiation oath. Every mason who joins the Lodge takes his thumb or hand to his throat and repeats an oath that has been repeated by every mason that has ever joined the lodge. The first I quoted above is just in the first degree, or the Blue Lodge.

How can a Christian bow before a man known as 'the worshipful master' and take an oath of this kind, claiming to be lost in darkness? The Bible has something different to say about Darkness and Light.

We write this to make our joy complete. This is the message we have heard from Him and declare to you; God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with Him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we should have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us from all sin. -I John 1:4-7

The fact is that blood oaths, and so many other rituals of the Masonic Lodge are just plain unBiblical and unChristian. The very oaths by which you must swear are purely sinful, my friend. James 5:12 says,

"Above all, my brothers, do not swear- not by heaven or by earth or by anything else. Let your 'yes' be yes, and your 'no' be no, or you will be condemned."

Most lodges are not compatable with the christian faith.
nor are the boy scout's or Girl scout's of america .
"Qath's".
That allow belief in any god
and then state "they are duing their duty to God."
Come on how can that be compatable with christianity.
How can one do their duty to God if they do not believe in Christ as their only savior from sin or that He is God?
Thats why  xxxxxx of the xxxxxxx confession's  are not allowed to participate in any of  them. Lodges or the boy or Girl scout's of America . These are all in some form religious organization's that allow rejecting of Christ Our Godly King.
and unbiblical doctrine's.
so member's of
xxx ,xxx, and xxx xxxxxx are taught not to join such groups that are religious in  nature and alow rejection of Christ and his bible.
Perhaps some day the boy scout's and girl scouts will drop the religious connection so we can participate.
Because their is many  good parts  about them.

Pockets, please, stop touting denominations. I beg you.
As for the Boy Scouts of America, my grandfather was a part of that organization for many years, and never ONCE was he forced to say the kind of oaths you mention or that I mentioned above. My uncles were a part of that organization for MANY years, and the situation was the same with them. Do not lump BSA and GSA in the same catagory as freemasonry and the masonic lodge.

Pocket, I have to disagree with you! I am a Eagle scout, my son is an Eagle scout. Never have the Boy Scouts of America been forced to say the oath you mention. By the way, there is a Lutheran sponcered Troop in my area. And once an Eagle scout, always an Eagle scout.

Listen,

It comes down to a couple of things...I am BORN AGAIN HARD! I love Jesus Christ and would not jeapordize anything when it comes to my salvation or walk with him....However, I am a FREEMASON....
You have to stop reading what you see on the web....First of all, NO ONE WHO WORSHIPS SATAN OR WHIKA, BLACK MAGIC or BUDDAH, etc , etc can become a freemason....

YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IN GOD! I have chaplin who prays in JESUS name....

Look into it before you judge, people feel the same way about us....

Hi swiftforce777,

Welcome to Christians Unite. Yes there are a lot of conspiracy theories in this world and we must be careful what we listen to and what we believe.

God Bless!

I never even heard of Freemason's until I had my "Godsent Daughter" from England live with me, who came from a family of satanists (she was saved, as is her daughter). Her grandfather was a freemason. There are more myths than there are truths about this. It starts out innocent enough, until you "work your way up" past apprentice. Then, it goes into the occult and mysticism theories. In many cases, satanic ritual groups start up after being brought up in a high authority freemason family.

The rumors that are urban legend, are about the boyscouts, ALL American Presidents, our US dollar. Yes, there are truths behind some things, but most are just like the whisper that you start off at the front of the line in church--by the time you tell the secret to the last guy in the seat at the end, the secret has changed to being so far off from the truth, you don't remember the original wording to begin with.

There is only one "religion" to follow, and that is Jesus. He didn't belong to any group. He belongs to all of us that accept Him into our heart! And, we belong to Him!

God Bless, again,
Kelly

"Disclaimer:lack of sleep and too much Indian food at church dinner tonight might have had me word things a bit wrong in this post. Parental Discretion is advised"

Does anybody these days know what a mason is? it is not a religion it is a trade of work. Freemasons got their start as an organization that brought masons together. Masonry is the construction of something using certain materials such as brick or concrete. Freemasonry was the orgainzation that grouped these people into an organization or a lodge. Since then it has turned into more of a lodge just like the Moose Lodge, Eagle Lodge, and many others. Within the lodge there are many people of many different beliefs not just satanists.

I read a book about the freemasonry or what they call the craft.  The title was "the craft" written by he siad he was freemason before and at first you reaaly do not know what is happening not until you reach the 29th to 31st level. which is the highest degree i guess.
The same thing that is being wriiten here about the initiation is what is happening bsed on the book.  Also i had a friend who joined and the same thing there were secret initiation that happened. so if it is a christian org? why is it secret? maybe they are secret agent of a god?

To be a Christian you have to proclaim to the world, right? And acceptance of Jesus Chrisst is not made in secret. Or are we Christians told to do things in secret? mmmmmmmmmmm....

maybe i am just mumbling words

I didn't say it was a Christian organization. In fact I said that there were many different beliefs within the organization. The primary requirement to join is that a person believes in a "higher power" and nothing else. Notice also that I compared them to the Moose Lodge. Definitely not a Christian Organization either.

I would like to say first of all that I am A Christian and also a Freemason!!! I was advised by people in my family not to join due to the supposed confliction between the two! Most people in our society don't even know about Masons, let alone know what they believe or involved in! Reading conspiracy theories and listing to people who really don't know what they are speaking about. I joined the Freemasons after doing research for years and talking with friends and family members who are members themselves. In my findings, I made a choice to join on the basis of what I felt was best for me.. I think allot of people confuse Freemasonry with satanic and occult practices or we worship some other paganistic being. The truth is religion and politics are not discussed in the temple and satanists cannot be Freemasons due to their Malevolent nature. I think so many bad things have spun way out of what they actually are, almost like the whole DaVici Code movie and the previous book Angels And Demons..People put spin on anything, even Almighty God, and Jesus Christ. My point being is that you cant always believe what you read or see on T.V. The Freemasons of today are far different from the Freemasons of the past. In fact, the Freemasons of today are not even factually connected with the Freemason founder Hiram Abiff who built the temple for King Solomon! Only their symbolisms and work ethics are taken from that era!! The newer Freemasonry of our country(USA) and many others is derived from our founding fathers. George Washington, Ben Franklin, and many others were Freemasons and were religious men themselves. The Monarchy of England caused an uproar in the citizenship thus forming small groups of people who didn't want to be oppressed and ruled with no say-so of the people!!! They then inturn started a revolution of people who wanted to be free and to start a new country. A war was then fought and freedom was won and gave birth to the Constitution. Charity is the most important aspect of Freemasonry. Millions of dollars each year is donated and raised for many people and organizations. Community programs are also important to us, every year my lodge does cleanup on a local river and its banks, and several other programs and charities are benefiting because of our hard work and dedication! Religion and Freemasonry are as different as black and white. It offends me when people do not know anything about the subject, yet label us members of cults and trying to secretly take over the world, its soo silly and irresponsible to label people and pass judgement on us. Presidents, law enforcement, fire fighters, doctors are all apart of the Freemasons and its charities. It is all about being the best person you can and offering a helping hand to fellow man, women, and children. Please, give us a break and do some real research, don't read what you want about us and judge us on non-accurate research!!!

Not religion? so there is no initiations? oath like the one posted earlier in this tread?

some said they are Christian organization? but why is there a secret initiation?
go and form a christain organization but only the person who goes into a secret initiation is accepted...  or is it a secret christain organization.... they don't want to be identified as christians maybe..

so would you help me to research the organization then. because i guess i am uninformed about the organization. Let start: who is the founder of freemasonry? who is the founder in the states? i just wanted to know

As for Christian - in Acts in says that the followers are called Christians.



also where can i check for the history of freemasonry.  maybe that would help me learn about the organization because so far the informations i read from books and  in the internet are ,as you, were saying are all false.

Oh, by the way i also learned what i know from former freemasons.  or maybe they are just scaring me.

I am an ex mason an I can tell you from being in the lodge, it isn't a place where God would dwell. It's pure witch craft

From a ex Mason who now a is true blue, blood wash, devil hating Christian

Brothers & Sisters, I have heard about the Freemasons, but I know nothing about them. Therefore I cannot comment on them at all one way or another. However, I look at it this way, first of all the only Book I follow and choose to live my life by is the Holy Bible, God's Word, nothing added nothing taken from it. I do not want to live by any man made doctrine and the only group I want to be a part of is one whom God will lok upon and say that one is mine, a child of God, bought by the Blood of Jesus.
Now brothers and sisters, I read on this thread how some have said I 'read here' or 'I read there', the question now that I want to pose is this. "How do you know when you are reading the truth and when you are not?"
For example, right now we are being faced with many thing that people want to use against Christians against God, and against His Word, example the Da vinci Code, we as Christians all know that this is nothing but a lie from the devil against Christianity, the same holds true for everything else we now have to investigate things and really use discernment and wisdom.
The best thing to do in this situation I would say is this, if you are a Born-again, Bible believing Christian, you already belong to the best there is, you are a child of God,any spare time or energy shoild be put into spreading the Good News of the Bible. I am not saying that people should not take time to enjoy the creations of God and spend time with their family and friends, what I am saying is we don't have time to sit around trying to figure out whether a group would be beneficial for us to join. If after Prayer, Meditation on God's Word, Personal Bible Study, wittnessing to others  and time with our family we still have time left left it would be wise to spend more time on our knees seekinig God and following his leading and praying that He will open people's eyes so that we may bring the lost to Him.

http://freemasonrywatch.org/washington.html

As with all secret societies I am familiar with, its set up as a need-to-know thing.  You only find out the next step, not where you're going.


Silver Raven Wolf, in her book,  "The Solitary Witches Book of Shadows" recognizes the equivelence between her own witchcraft, and her fathers Freemasonry.

She also claimes witchcraft is about being the best person you can be.  Freemasonry does not identify itself as the occult, but as you know more of what the occult looks like, you realize freemasonry is virtualy identicl.  Aleister Crowley, the occult master, was a freemason, and so was Joseph Smith, founder of mormonism.

I was told by someone in a church that, Freemason's call themselves that because Jesus was a mason. Um, maybe I am reading things wrong but, Jesus was a carpenter, taught by Joseph--where did this mason thing come in?

Maybe I was told the wrong thing. Then again, I was just told that, on the back of the dollar bill, the pyramid with the eye is a freemason symbol. I was always told that, it was the eye of God watching over us--that shows how much I know.

I, unfortunately got involved in wiccan as a young woman, angry at a church and rebelling as young people sometimes do. I know more about wiccan that I would like to, but I praise God that He forgave me for that and let me see the falseness of that, so called religion. Wiccan starts out making you believe that, in no way it is evil--it is a love of nature, as well as all the elements. You then get involved and find out how evil it truly is. I think, or have been told by others that had family involed in Freemasonry that, FM is the same way--it starts out innocent enough to grab hold of your interest, and then gets evil as it goes further on.

Either way, I am sticking to the only following that is important: The true Word of our Bible and the ways of our Only Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ!

God Bless,
Kelly

It's an attempt at validation by association.  Jesus was probably more of a "mason", than a "carpenter" by trade, as we would define those two trades, but he was not a Freemason.
Not the eye of God, the eye of Horus--the egyptian elder god.  The words under the pyramid are latin for, "New World Order".  There are 32 fethers on one wing of the eagle there on the same bill, the number of degrees in the scottish rite of freemasonry, and there are 33 feathers in the other wing, the # of degrees in the anglo rite of freemasonry. The 9 tail feathers is symbolic too, but I forget what they mean.  On the front of the bill, in the upper right corner, between the #1 and the leaf on the left of it, perched in the notch is an owl, the symbol of molech.......but freemzasonry is not the occult...rriiigght!

I was going to comment on each line I recognized as another teaching of the occult, but there is too many.  I'll just say this whole post, though it intends to address the teachings of Freemasonry, also addresses the teachings of mormonism, JW's, Buddhism, Hinduism, (really all the eastern 'isms), Catholiscism,  Islam, ...I'll quit there, but I could go on.

Jesus said, Matthew 12:30
30 “He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.
  There are only two religions in the world, Christianity, and the occult.

AMEN 1 Tim!!

While I do not support the Freemasons in any form I think it is important that we know the true purpose of the design of the dollar bill as there are many different false stories on it. We have historical records that explain the use of and the purpose of the different designs on the dollar bill. The true translation of the Latin under the pyramid is an example of this and in order to fully understand it one must take it into context with the rest of the latin and the Roman Numerals that are on the pyramid.

The Latin below the pyramid, NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM, was translated by the government as "A new order for the ages." The Latin above the pyramid, ANNUIT COEPTIS, means "God has favored our undertaking." At the base of the pyramid is the Roman Numeral for 1776. When put together this clearly has nothing to do with "A New World Order" as we understand that meaning today. It had to do with the formation of the United States.

As for the "all seeing eye"  and the overall design of this seal ......

Before the adjournment of the Continental Congress on July 4th, 1776, a committee was appointed to develop a seal for the United States.  The committee was Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, and Thomas Jefferson, three of the five men who had drafted the Declaration of Independence.  They were merely the first committee, however.  It took six years, the work of two additional committees and a total of 14 men before a final version of the Great Seal was approved. 

Although Franklin's committee did not suggest a pyramid, it did originate the suggestion of the eye.  The term "the all-seeing eye" is never used in describing it.   The Franklin committee wanted the seal to include a reflection of divine providence and discussed a variety of themes including the Children of Israel in the Wilderness.  Some have suggested that the pyramid and the eye are the result of Masonic influence, but the only member of the original committee who was a Mason was Franklin and this committee's design was rejected by congress.  None of the final designers of the seal was a Mason.  The eye as representing "the eye of providence" has a long history.  It's more likely that both the designers of the Great Seal and the Masons both drew from that history.  The use of "the all seeing eye" as uniquely Masonic first appeared in 1797, nearly 15 years after the adoption of the symbolism by Congress.  The Latin above the pyramid, ANNUIT COEPTIS, means "God has favored our undertaking."

The final proposal, which was accepted by Congress, was submitted on June 13, 1782 by Charles Thompson who had the title Secretary of Congress.  He brought together some of the recommendations of the three committees, their consultants, and artists.

Charles Thompson, in his remarks to congress about the symbolism on the Great Seal, said the pyramid represented "Strength and Duration."

As we can clearly see here the Freemasons had very little to do with the design of the seal and the reasons for the items selected for it.

Franklin wasn't the only Mason in that comittee, Thomas Jefferson was a Freemason as well.  Though you present a good argument against the influence of Freemasonry on the great seal, the rest of the One dollar bill shows the influence of Freemasonry still, which suggests masonic influence on the great seal.

At best, either argument could be true, or even both.  If masonic influence was the Reality, it would have to be disguised and explained away before the christians involved would consent to the design.

The purpose of the occult design of Washington DC, the One Dollar Bill, and occult symbols in general, is deception.  The occult, believing there is power to be gained from the focused mind, displayes symbols that to the casual onlooker are meaningless, or even acceptable (such as the star of david) but to the occult have specific meaning.  The fact remaines that the symbolism is there, and those symbols have been used in the occult since Genesis 3.

Non-Christians, who are ' good' people by general standards, won't accept the occult agenda if they are faced with it head on, and fully aware of what it is, so the deception of,  " ...well, we're just like Christians...only different" opens the door, and occult mentality creeps in.

We are told in Eph. 5:11 to not have anything to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but wrather expose them.  To me this means we need to be aware of what they are, and sound the alarm when the wolf is at the door, disguised in the Lambs wool.


Ultimately, greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world.  We don't have to fear.  "Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising question of concience."   We have a One Dollar bill, regardless of who designed it, and what symbolism is on it. God gave it to us to use wisely, it is His, on loan to us. Therefore we recieve it with thanksgiving, and use it for His purpose.

There are and have been many different groups that want to make their claim for the formation of and influence in the forming of the United States. These groups would have us believe that God and Christians had nothing to do with it when in fact this nation would not have been formed to begin with if God did not have His hand in it. These same groups are also those that come out with other such things as the davinci garbage, the gospel of jude and other such things that try to destroy the diety Jesus Christ. This is all a part of the deception that you speak of.

One of the things that was done was to claim that many of the founding fathers were freemasons when in fact few had anything to do with them.

There is irrefutable evidence that Christianity was the major influence in the founding of this nation and as all good Christians know God had a whole lot to do with it.

One of the best sources for looking up historical facts such as these on the United States is in the Library of Congress.

I just spent a few moments looking at a dollar bill. The right wing shows 44 feathers and the left wing shows at least 50 feathers.

As for the owl that takes some real imagination to find it. The matrix it consists of are a series of knots in a rope that was not intended to represent an owl.

This is the original seal that Benjamin Franklin wanted and which he submitted to congress which was turned down.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v311/randers/proposedseal.jpg)


This is supposed to represent the biblical story of the parting of the Red Sea. It was Franklins intent to relate the U.S. to parting from England as the Israeilites did from Egypt.

Kelly4Jesus,

One term that I have seen in wiccan literature, but never have found a definition for yet, is : Watchtower.

Do you know anything about this?

Pastor Roger,

check out the link I posted above for the freemasonrywatch.com site.  It'l take you to the section on their site that identifies the occult symbols in the street design of washington dc.  Their site contains much more info than that, but I think you'll have to agree that at the very least, the argument presented is compelling.

The washington monument, built by freemasons, is an Egyptian obelisk.  As Christians, we know it as an Ashera Pole--the ones torn down in the Old Testament every time a God fearing king rose to power in Israel.  There is also one in St. Peters Square, at the Vatican, and it is labeled an egyptian obelisk. These are used in occult goddes worship, and are being introduced in our public schools right now.  In my town, I have newspaper clippings of two elementary schools that have a ceremony they teach the kids to do arround this pole.  The Bohemian Grove, has a ceremony where Molech is worshipped, right here in the USA.  They even do a mock human sacrafice, in front of their 40' stone owl statue.  There is a "burning man" ceremony done annually in Nevada--same thing.  I have a list of articles, from the Catholic Catechism, that say the same thing as pagan, and occult teaching.  I've read "prayers" from the Catholic Catechism, and a book called Ancient Pagan Rites and Rituals, that were word for word identicle. The wiccan high priest who owned the book wouldn't let me look at it further.

I understand that recognizing this stuff is scary, what it means for our society, (it scares the tar outta me )  but it also means Jesus is comeing back--and that to me is exciting.  It also makes it that much more urgent that I am an active member of the ministry Jesus calls us to.

The occult is here, all arround us, masquerading as workers of righteusness, as Paul said they would be.

2 Corinthians 11:15
15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

It takes a couple years of researching this stuff untill it sinks in, their agenda, their numbers, their power, it did for me at least. All religions say the same thing-- except Christianity. We're all by ourselves here--with Jesus at the helm--and that is enough.  Freemasons are generally good people.  I know some, but their theology is part of the occult, seperated at the tower of Babel.  The OTO is the " UN " of the occult.  Their goal is to reunite the occult, as it was at the tower of Babel.  I believe they will succede some day--just before the Abomination that causes Desolation appears.


Jesus is still on the throne.  God is still King.  As Solomon said, " There is nothing new under the sun".  These guys have been here since Genesis 3, and will be till Jesus comes back.  In the mean time, lets continue as Christians United in Him, reaching people with the Truth, so He finds us about His business when He returns.

I've seen many sites like that one. While I agree that the freemasons are not a group to participate in I don't beleive that they are one to be that concerned about. Nor do I believe that they had all that much to do with the making of this nation as many people say. There are many groups that are much more filled with evil than they are and that fit the things that we are told about the end times.

If one knows what is being taught to Muslims one will find that it fits the description perfectly. Al-Mahdi fits the Biblical description of the anti-Christ and their Khalifate, which will be ten leaders fits the ten kings. Their teachings of Al-Mahdi arriving and establishing a one world religion (islam). Our public schools are instituting the teaching of islam to our children while Christianity is being thrown out and there is a movement right now to replace our constitution and other laws with sharia law. The muslims are buying up buisnesses and real estate all throughout the U.S., Canada, Europe and Asia and they are starting to take over the ACLU also. All factors that can put them into power and position to do as they see fit.

Islam is doing now, what Masons and Mormons have allready done--and they are the same group.  Though their behavior makes them look different from each other, their doctrine makes them look identicle.  Islam acts more millitant, but the doctrine exists in Mormonism too.  Mormon temple rites, are Masonic rites---White Witchcraft.  Buddhism, Hinduism, all Yogas, Janeism, Theosophy (Madam Blavinski's), Alleister Crowley's Thelema (Gk. word for ' will'), Catholisism based on what the Catholic Catechism says,...all those guys are part of the same occult.

We're saying the same thing here Pastor Roger.  I don't intend to argue, but build on what you're saying.  We cant afford...  (yeah, like its us fighting the fight  ;)) to be lulled by one "harmless" group while the other gets our attention. The bad guy at the front door makeing all the noise is only distracting our attention from the one comeing in the back door, and the one we allready let in who called himself 'friend' and we believed him. I'm trying to deal with the guys at the back door.

The chessboard is set up for a checkmate, in a few moves, but their queen, is up against our King, and thats my point.  I threw a lot of stuff out in this thread, cause I want everyone reading it to understand, (IMO) the time is short.  We can't win the war, its allready been won by Jesus.  All we can do is show up to the fight and  keep someone from being taken captive...as He leads.

One way I do that is when they show up at my door, I let them in, and return as often as they will, and I use their own literature to give them something to knaw on them untill they deal with it.  They may walk away still believing they are right, but they won't be convinced they are.

Hi Tim,
Sorry I didnt see this until now.

I have a hard time talking about wiccan because of my own anger at myself for following it during my "young, stupid time". I praise Jesus for saving me and letting me see the evil in it--of course, Wiccan high priestesses and priests will deny any evil in it, saying it is all about nature, but it also studies the kabala, which has so much evil references in it. I can't see how they can say that "spells" are not evil.

Anyway, the watchtower can be summed up as follows:

In Wicca, when casting the magickal circle, one calls upon various "Watchtowers" to guard the circle; four in total, each representing both a direction and an element associated with that direction (i.e. The Watchtower of the East is the tower of Wind). Each Watchtower has a Guardian Spirit that is set to watch over that point of the circle.


Notice how MAGICKAL is spelled here--it is only spelled this way in Wiccan, so they don't have any reference to the biblical meaning of MAGIC. This assumes that, it is not related to the evil way of magic explained in the bible.

Also notice that, WATCH TOWER and Jehovah's Witnesses go together as well. That is the name of their newsletter that they go to houses with during their DOOR TO DOOR sales of their religion. Watchtower always was a place to guard against evil, but through a supernatural way of explanation that is not DIVINE Intervention, but of human's acting through enhanced powers. Watchtower derives from the wiccan term, as you can see here.

This is why I have fun with the JW's when they come to my house. I bring up the watchtower, and it's reference in Wiccan. Of course, I now have a big sign on the door that states..CHRISTIAN LIVES HERE..NO SOLICITATION OF OTHER RELIGIONS ALLOWED. The word CHRISTIAN deters them, but I like to give a zing to their DOOR TO DOOR sales as well. I have realized that, they cannot be reasoned with, even though they have every definition of a cult, down to giving all their money to their Kingdom Hall and living together/sharing resources like phones and food with only their own.

I used to be really mean and put, "I gave blood today because I love my fellow brothers and sisters". That usually kept them away too.

Anyway, that is what the watchtower was in Wiccan, and is still the same today, but now used by more than just the Wiccan religion.

Praise Jesus that we only need His Name, and no symbols or false beliefs! We just need HIM!

God Bless,
Kelly

Since the killing of the Al-Queda leader, I have noticed more Muslim's speaking out about their religion. I have also noticed that, women are doing most of the speaking. I would guess that this is being done because, women are usually not allowed to speak out, for they are a "lesser" being than man in strict Islam. Having a woman speak makes it look like, to me they are making us believe that it isn't as strict as it used to be about women.

Anyway, there have been many reports from Islam stating that, we Christians have it all wrong; they are NOT about anything but love of their fellow man. They seem to be trying, once again to put Christianity down and promoting their own religion as being the TRUE religion of love instead.

Of course, that is how it is coming across to me. Personally, I have nothing against the Muslims, other than knowing that, their religion is a false one and Christianity being the ONLY true Word of God.

God Bless,
Kelly

Thanks Kelly, you guessed where I was going with that   ;D ;D.  The Watchtower Society, or, Jehovas Falswhitnesses as I affectionately know them by, are a tough group for me to get a handle on.  All other false religions tend to try to minimize Jesus and sell you something different, but JW's aren't selling a new revelation or philosophy at least not up front, they are just trying to re-define what the Bible says, relying on their New World [order] Translation, and any other translation that renders a version of a passage in such a way that they can easily twist its meaning.

Thats why I like to start with the Bible they have in their own hand.  They won't accept a passage from my Bible, (unless I seen them coming and dug out my NWT), because they claim it is unreliable for truth.  They can't demonstrate that claim, to me, but I can demonstrate that theirs is unreliable, in two passages.  If they want more, I give them more, but usually, they're pretty stumped with just Jn. 1:1, and Is. 43:10.  (In the NWT Jn. 1:1 says, "...and the Word was a god--indicateing more than one god-consistent with wiccan philosophy wouldn't you say?)  They do a better job than most at covering their tracks, but I suspect that the term 'Watchtower' was wiccan in origin, of their philosophy.

May I encourage you to embrace the fact you have a wiccan past (so did Abraham, Paul (kabbalah), Moses (he may not have practiced it but he was certainly immersed in it in Pharoh's household), Solomon, the church in Ephesus...ect.  You have a knowlege the rest of us can only read about, and an experiential understanding of the mindset of the people much of the Bible was written to, and the roadblocks Christians can create in whitnessing to them.  Use your insights to train the rest of us grunts in the trenches.  Many Christians don't know how to deal with a wiccan, who is also Catholic, and sees no inconsistency with it.  You're a special tool, honed for a purpose.  I carry a screwdriver in my toolbag at work, that don't quite look like the rest of my screwdrivers, but there is one job that it can do better than any other screwdriver I have.


I got another question too, the wiccan rite of Baptizm.  How do they use it, when, why...and all that jazz.

Thanks for the explanation on the spelling of 'magik'.  I noticed that but just assumed it was a variation of the word, much like color, and colour.

Hey Tim..I have been waiting up all night for that question! lol No, really..bad storms here and I tend to think of them as a show of God's Mighty Power. I love them!

I was brought up catholic, but my mother was agnostic. My grandmother forced the religion on me, per se, by making me attend her church. However, I was pretty much cast out from there, during the 60's when divorce was not something accepted. Once, I was pulled into a corner for saying that my mother was divorced. I was told that, she would burn in hell and if I didn't want to do the same, I would declare my father as DEAD and not speak of her "sin" again.

I rebelled later on by joining Wiccan, which, at the time seemed accepting of me. That was something I craved at the time and in Massachusetts, finding a nonCatholic church at the time, where I lived was almost impossible.

Wiccan doesn't do a baptizm, but does have a ritual much like the way Catholics baptize babies--they welcome the newborn into our world, but the decision to become wiccan is not made at that time. The child must reach maturity before he or she can join. Each coven is different, depending on their type of magic used--white, black, etc. I, thank God didn't stay long enough to see too many. I did see the Halloween ritual at midnight, and a few others that I am sorry I used to be enthralled by. Now, they make me sick. They have a ritual for almost everything, from a woman's first period to menopause. You name it, there is a ritual to be performed.

Wiccan's do not refer to themselves as Pagans, but as NEOpagans. They like to believe they are a conglomeration of many religions, reaching a common bond for "the good of all people". Instead of AMEN they use, SO MOTE IT BE. Supposedly, without those words at the end, the ritual means nothing, or doesn't have enough power.

As for JW's, I have two relatives in the family that are JW's. They will not stay at a family function (Or wouldn't, back when I used to see them, many years ago) if a priest, Rabbi or Pastor comes in. They won't participate or respect any other belief but their own. My cousin lived in a commune of sorts, with her BROTHERS AND SISTERS, where they shared a phone, computer, food, etc. My uncle gave up his job in Monocco, where he worked for Onassis directly, and gave what wealth he had and all his pension from serving in the Marines to the JW Kingdom Hall. They would come into my grandmother's home and disrespect everything, from her beliefs to Jesus ("Your Jesus is a pagan god. Jesus was hung on a tree, not a cross"). When she needed blood for a transfusion during heart surgery, he refused to give (HER OWN BROTHER!) because it was EATING OR SHARING OF HUMAN FLESH. But boy, slam a door in their face and YOU are being rude!

There is little difference between JW's, Mormons, Islam, Hindu, Buddahism, and Wiccan's, IMHO. They all preach the same thing--lies. The only true God is OUR GOD, and Jesus is OUR ONLY LORD AND SAVIOR, who will COME AGAIN and take all of us that follow HIM home. Praise Jesus!

God Bless,
Kelly

I wondered about that too.  What does ' mote' mean.  I thought it was kind of funny, because the word Amen actually does mean, " Yea, yea, so shall it be", and I was assuming 'mote' meant something like 'shall'.

More'n that, It suprised me to find that their doctrines are so similar---only the names have been changed to protect the guilty.


I wanted to ask you too, if you had any insight on why the JW's insist that Jesus was "impaled on a torture stake" instead of the cross.  I actually had one say to me, that Jesus was hung on a torture stake...cause he saw the pictures..LOL

The funny thing is they say "impaled" but they mean nailed--like on a cross, but without the cross beam.  I don't understand why that would make such a difference as to insist on it so strongly, unless they just wanted to suggest that Christianity was wrong on yet another issue they had the inside track on.

Hi Tim!
I admit to avoiding going further on this subject. As I talk about it with those that love Jesus, it doesn't seem right. I use my knowledge to help those COME to Jesus that are following these beliefs, so I can show them all the truth of His Word. However, I hate talking about the beliefs in context of it seeming to promote it. Their beliefs are wrong and can be used towards promoting more evil. I try not to give satan any credit, and paganism (wiccan, for one) is giving him credit for they are created with his name stamped all over them.

What JW's believe and how they believe are not important, since their beliefs are false--plain and simple. I don't trust anyone that doesn't refer to biblical (our Bible..the real Word of God) text, which has the actual truth in it. Nowhere does God say that we must go home to home, with fire and brimstone pamphlets in twos. As far as I know, the only twos that were commanded were the animals on Noah's Ark (and I always wondered how he dealt with that smell all those years..lol).

False doctrine is everywhere. We know that Christ died on a cross, made of wood from trees. We know that He suffered, died and was buried, only to rise again in His Glory, 3 days later. whatever else is told is untrue, so I don't even listen or discuss it. That is exactly what they want--us to discuss so they can jump right in and defend their pagan beliefs. I just use their pamphlets for firewood, take out my blood donor card and say, "Nice to meet you..I am a Christian who follows the Holy Bible and Love Jesus". That usually works--they avoid my house like the plague! lol

As for MOTE..it means Will..Might...a pagan way of saying amen, if you will, mixed in with WHEN TWO OR MORE AGREE. YUCK to mote!

God Bless,
Kelly

Back in the saddle again    ;D.  A little spiritual warfare going on here.  The dog ate my phone cord that I was useing to strech from the computer to the phone jack.  Finally got a new one run.   ;D



Thanks Kelly,
You need to follow the course of your ministry the way the Lord lay's it out for you, so I respect that you don't want to address it as the questions I ask would lead it.   I however tend to attack the JW's at their doctrinal root, from the argument that only one truth exists--either their version, or the Bible--but they cannot both be true.  That is why I use their bible, (NWT) and frequently, the one from their own hand, and their doctrines, to reveal the fallacy of their belief system.  When they walk away from my door, there are a few issues in their own mind now that wern't there before that they must deal with.  So I'm allways keeping an eye out for more information to reveal to them in the way they would understand best, that their belief system needs to be re-examined.  Like a fishermans tackle box--each lure for a specific result in a certain situation--all of them designed to catch