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There have been some issues raised about liberalism Christians, we all have met them, they question things like did Christ really walk on water and if he did maybe there was a sandbar just under his feet, absurd notions like that.
I think that everybody should make their view on the Bible clear,
Do you believe that the Bible is fully the word off God ( As I do) and be taken as such(not discounting the fact that some background knowledge off the area, or situation can help us understand some parts properly) or do you believe that it is an out dated writing and is just an interesting read at best or whatever?
When I know where everybody stands than it will help me in my approach to you in debate as I think it will help everybody.
I am a Conservative Christian Bible fundamentalist and you can quote me on that.
What are you?

God be with you. Yes, we can come to the truth through this. Maybe you have in mind what I have in mind.

The bible is the word of God. I believe this fully. I know what you are talking about. It is true that these people do not have much faith in things that defy current science. This is utterly foolish for they are relying on man's wisdom. As we know, science's foundation is never solid; it is always changing and normally progressing. This fact alone makes any person foolish to believe that science is absolute. But we know that this is foolishness because "man's wisdom is foolishness to God." There is a problem I see however. There is no conservative or liberal perspective; there is only one: the Truth. May this be revealed...

What do you make of the following...
Mana was food given to Israel by God. It rained from the sky.

Man has found that there is a type of seed from a tree that when eaten, tastes sweet like honey. Maybe this was the mana that the Israelites ate. And how the mana could have fallen from the sky was that there was a wind that carried the seeds from the trees into the air.



Jonah was found 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of a fish.

There have been reports of man being swallowed by fish and getting out alive. One instance was a man who fell overboard and was swallowed by a whale. The captain of the ship ordered a cannon to be fired at the whale. When the whale was hit it vomited out the man. So it is possible for man to be in a fish's belly and come out alive.

Jesus said, "No miraculous sign will be given to this wicked generation but the sign of Jonah"

Matthew 17:27
“Then the sons are exempt,” Jesus said to him. “But so that we may not offend them, go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours.”

Let's look at the underlined part and ask yourself was it really a fish or is this figurative?

Every Jew who was 20 years old was required to pay a temple tax of two drachmas each year helping to support the temple.  This was a religious tax and not a state tax. Jesus explained that not only was He (the King) exempt from this tax, but His disciples were also.  Peter overlooked this fact even though he knew Jesus was a law abiding citizen.  Jesus told them that the "King" does not tax His own family.  Therefore, as King, God would not require Jesus or His desciples to pay the temple tax.  Jesus didn't pay the temple tax because it was an obligation but instead He paid it because Peter incorrectly assumed Jesus owed it.  To keep from offending the temple tax collectors, Jesus performed a miracle to provide the money for the tax.  Through this miracle the tax collectors could be shown that Jesus was no ordinary man, and perhaps they would seek to learn more about Him.

 

thanks for replying.

I would like to know though, how you know this is true:

"Jesus performed a miracle to provide the money for the tax.  Through this miracle the tax collectors could be shown that Jesus was no ordinary man, and perhaps they would seek to learn more about Him."

"Silver, a Fundamental, Conservative Christian who trusts every word of God"
I don't doubt it-lol!
They say that the road to hell is paved with good intentions and so these liberalist may have the utmost off good intentions but sadly they fear man more than God or do not have the faith to see the all-powerful ever-present god off heaven and earth.
A very Liberalist church nearby has a large message board on it, once it said YOU CAN BE TOO HEAVENLY MINDED TO BE ANY EARTHLY GOOD, the Audacity off these people (They allow gay couples to take communion with much pride I might add) These people are much too earthly minded to be any heavenly good.
The Bible begins with, In the beginning god created the heavens and the earth if you can believe that then you will know that nothing is to hard for the Lord. I do not need natural explanations Felix, I just stand in aw off Gods power off which you will witness one day.
So Felix are you a Liberal Christian?
And I believe that God has the power to manipulate the world in which he created, when God says that you will get a coin in the first fist you catch then what fool would doubt him?
With the miracle off Jonah Jesus was obviously talking about his death and resurrection which is surely a sign to this generation now and is the only one that saves.
God Bless.
Anyone ells?


 

That was very good Silver. The Scriptures are God-breathed. Absolutely every word is important.

I must give a warning though. Do not let a perspective (namely liberal or fundamental view) overshadow the Truth. I know you must be asking...how can a fundamental view overshadow the Truth as it takes the word of God as it is. I tell you, both these stances are stances of the mind not the Spirit.

2 cor 3:14-17
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.

Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty.


Heb 4:12
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Now what is the soul? and why would the word of God divide the soul and spirit?

Excellent. I am not a Liberal Christian. I have a desire to know God's truth. Whatever you want to call that.

Amen. This is true. The Lord is the creator of ALL things. These are the laws of nature and physics (laws governing the universe) and everything within it.


I know you do not need natural explanations however nature is what God created right? And if we understand that then we will understand how God did it. Not necessary but very revealing and joyful when we know it.

I have seen many miracles. Many things happen in my life that to an outsider would JUST say, "Oh, well that's natural...it happens all the time" whereas I say "Oh thank you Lord! For you know my needs and you have provided!". I know and God knows that I know his power and might.

exactly

Jesus said he would speak in parables. There are many hidden things of whom those "who have ears let him hear". I have no doubt of God. Let me challenge you with this verse:

Matthew 4:19
And He said to them, "Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men."


Obviously? Though it may seem. Let me again challenge your thinking:


matt 12:38-40
But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet;

   
for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Yes, it seems as such because of the transition. "For Just". But what if it is not. Read these verses as seperate entities and think about the following...

What is the miracle that we see that saves us? Is it really Jesus's time spent in the heart of earth? In hades?
There is a greater miracle still. The turning of the hearts of people to the Lord. Is this not what we see today? A person who is saved, we see the miracle in them from how they have changed. The light of God shines in them. This is a great sign.

Let's look at Jonah. What was so miraculous during that time? The people turned from their evil ways... "But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth. Let everyone call urgently on God. Let them give up their evil ways and their violence" (jonah 3:8)

Can this not be a sign for an evil and adulterous generation? Pharisees and Saducess seeing that heathens and gentiles turning to the Lord?

Can this be so?

I dont know exactly where your coming from but if people believe in the death and resurrection off Christ, understands what it means in regards to them they can be saved.
Thats the only way hearts can be turned, is that what you are trying to say, if so I agree, or are you talking in parables-lol

God Bless

hmm, I wouldnt say I'm speaking in parables  ;D...just asking questions to jog your mind and utlimately your Spirit: your inner most being.

Anyone who calls upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved. Those who believe in Him are saved. When they do that, they have turned their hearts to God because they have obeyed God's will: "My Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life (john 6:40)" We look away from our sins and the things of the world, and look to our Lord Jesus.

I was just talking about a problem between Liberal and Fundamental Christians. For the most part they are just labels but I have to say that the only way to find Truth is not through some perspective of the mind but it is by the Spirit of Truth...
Jesus told us, "I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever- the Spirit of Truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be IN you." (jOHN14:17)

"But when he, the Spirit of Truth, comes, he will guide you into ALL truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come." (john 16:13)

So how can I know this Spirit of Truth? It is not something I can see. The body can sense a body. A mind can sense a mind. But only a spirit can sense the Spirit. You spirit is your inner most being. To invite in the Spirit you have to have the desire deep down inside. When you turn your heart to the Lord and desire to be filled by Him, you will receive Him.

I dont want to get into the semantics of what Liberalism and Fundamentalism mean but there really is only one thing. The Truth. "For you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free"



"ASK and it will be given to you; SEEK and you will find; KNOCK and the door will be opened to you." (matt 7:7)

There are many things that God wants to give you. There are many things that the Holy Spirit wants to show you. And there is a kingdom that Jesus Christ wants you to come into.

Yeah and Jesus said thy word is truth and the psalmist said that the law is spiritual.
The holy spirit reveals himself through the truth off Gods word not through feeling if thats what you are into? Remember the devil is a spirit to and he can also quote scripture he did it when he tried to tempt Christ, the audacity of him.
Spiritual growth comes from knowledge in his word, the Holy Scriptures and not just knowledge but obedience, that is true spiritual growth, you can have your experiences I wasnt born again yesterday!

You have not answered one question I have presented. Why not answer them?

Read all my posts again, especially the scriptures. You should know the bible very well as you are quite studious in your reading. But this is a mystery to you still. This I do have a hidden message...

You have heard of God, but you have not seen him nor tried to seek his face.  

"You hypocrites! You draw near to Me with your mouth, and you honor Me with your lips, but your hearts are far from Me."

"For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart."



"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in Spirit and in truth"

Do you know how to do this? You don't. I have told you how but you have not understood.

I have read and understand fully where you are coming from if you are a Pentecostal /charismatic am I right? And or are you talking about heart knowledge over head knowledge? Or are you talking about being baptized in the Holy spirit?
So how can I know this Spirit of Truth? You say
My last post was the answer to your question it just wasnt the answer that you wanted but if you want I can go through a very lengthy exposition off the verses you mentioned (if you want me to though I feel like it would be water on a ducks back-lol) but not now it is 12:29 AM here and me need beauty sleep.
Semi-Calvinist-Conservative-fundamentalist-Me signing off for now!
See you next time god willing.

Brother, I dont mean to belittle you. Here is everything...

Look at Job. What can we learn from that story?
Job was a man of his integrity. He was a good man. But he did not have God in him. Job and his friends were still under the notion that if you do good God will take care of you and if you do bad well...look at Job, he was being punished. But Job didnt do any evil!

Thus, we see a very very long argument between Job and his friends. Both using their own MINDS to rationalize why Job was suffering as such. As long as they were using their minds they're arguments kept going. Their arguments take up a good amount of the bible! Haha, I know what you have in mind will be a long argument between the two of us if we keep arguing with our minds.

What they didnt know was God. When God came to talk with Job, Job finally said
"My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.

Therefore I despise myself
and repent in dust and ashes."

But NOW MY EYES HAVE SEEN YOU...and now I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes.

What did Job have to repent for? Why did Job have anything to despise himself for? Wasnt there no one on earth like him?

Job did not know God though he was a righteous man. But after he saw God did he understand these things.

Jesus said, "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God"

What happens when we see God? We become like Christ. This is Christ's desire for us. Why did God make us in his image in the first place? We were made in his image so we could reflect his glory. But now we seek God's face so that we may go from glory to glory. You know this verse that is being spoken about.

Now I ask how can we become like Christ? What process is this. How are we transformed and conformed? You know that the company you keep will affect your character. If you spend time with someone greater than you, you will eventually become like him. Thus, the bible says

2 Corinthians 13:14
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

It is the fellowship of the Holy Spirit. Walking in the Spirit. You know about these things but ask God what it means. You can rationalize all you want to make it make sense in the worldly sense but this is not of the world. This is only a mystery because it is not known to the world. However, it is known to us who belong to God.

You have heard of God for a long time but now it is time that He fill you. It is one thing to know about God, it is another thing to turn your heart to him. Christ wants to live in you and make his home with you. Why was Jesus (Jehovah saves) not called Emmanuel(God with us) before? Have you thought about this?

This is why. Jesus came to save the world. After his death and resurrection he became a life-giving spirit. He is now with us! Emmanuel, God is with us! He lives in us.

Let is purify our hearts and turn our hearts to God. We need to "follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart." (2 tim 2:22)


I don't know the groups pentacostal or charimatic. I know the common faith of which the Apostle Paul speaks of (titus 1:4).

So what are you trying to say, that you want me to be baptised in the Holy Spirit?
Do I need to fall over or shake rattle and roll-lol

I reckon i'll throw my two cents in here for a few minutes...if it's worth much ;) I see the debate between liberalism and fundamentalism and i find that there is a basic difference between doctrine and the soundness of this doctrine. So often liberal christians find it easier to dis-obey God's words and they find it a lot easier to stray, yet find themselves back on track miraculously. Silver: I agree with your synopsis of what a fundamentalist Christian is. And Felix...i see where you are coming from. However, to both of you, to each his own. There will always be differing opinions, however, in Scripture there are certain truths that are prevalent and that we ALL need to agree on. Instead we bicker about what is doctrinated and what is Truth.

Darrelx: I saw your post about "Semi-Calvinist-Conservative-Christian me" signing off...I found that kind of interesting. That describes me to a letter. Some of the doctrine I agree with is a bit calvinistic in view...however, I try to make sure that what I say in terms of Scripture, lines up with God's Word. If that makes me a fundamentalist, then so be it. That's just a label people are just going to have to apply. I've come across some findamentalists who are the most awesome teachers of the Word of God i've ever seen. Also Darrel...I don't think he's telling you to be baptised with the Holy Spirit, considering when you became a Christian you were baptised and sealed with the Holy Spirit...re-read Ephesians 1:13.

Oh, and Felix...your underlying message, just taking a shot in the dark, are you talking about adherance to God's Word and making sure that whenever one studies God's Word, that he/she applies it to their lives and in doing that they please God? That's what I get from that statement. However, that's not the only thing. I don't wanna discuss it, cause i don't wanna take Darell's answer away from him :). Like always, I'm going to deposit my two cents into the rice bowl and be on my merry little way. I may wander back and read and respond again. Re-read my signature...and think about it. :) God Bless

Joshua

p.s. for Bible fundamentalism...I think you guys know the answer to that based on my post.  ;D

Well thats how I see it as walking in the spirit, since the word off God was written by the Holy Spirit so that we may learn from the scriptures to walk in the spirit as well as Get to Know God in the trinity.
I don't believe that this can be done without a knowledge off Gods word.
I still dont quite know were Felix is coming from, if he is saying that fine if he is saying that there is another way all I'll say is, "Good luck with that!" -lol

Yes. But to an extent that is even greater. Let me tell you one thing. It is not a strict adherance but a very very very strict adherance to God's Word. It is taking the Word as it is and ONLY as it is. Many people are quick to rationalize things that they dont understand. Things like the heart, mind, soul and spirit. These are things that are not easily understood but are ever so real. They are not metaphors or figurative devices!!! They are real and are applied just as the Word of God says!


Yes, there is more. Maybe you know it brother. If you do share with us! Your above statement is not the main point; this thing is something that even the world can accept. Anyone can read a book and apply the teachings of it to their lives. Anyone can adhere to anything to please their gods. The bible, the Word of God, is different. Not only is it the truth, but it goes far beyond that.


Does someone know how reading the bible is eating from the tree of life? What can the bible give you that other books cant?

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Understand that the WORD was GOD...

John 6:53-57
Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at teh last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.

Now here is a monumental revelation...

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The WORDS I have spoken to you are SPIRIT and they are LIFE.

1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a lifegiving spirit.

So Jesus was the Word of God in the beginning and then when He died and resurrected he became a life-giving spirit. A LIFE-giving spirit. Those who eat of Him(Word of God) will have eternal life. The WORDS I have spoken to you are SPIRIT and they are LIFE. For we do not eat of His physical flesh for "flesh counts for nothing". We eat the bread that gives life. Which one is that? Look at John 6:63.



So yes brother, that is true. Notice specifically what I quoted from you however. Here is a question. How is it that Satan can quote scripture for his purpose? What is Satan thinking? Surely just knowing the scriptures, which are Truth, will not stop him from lying.

It is the direction of the mind.

Romans 8:6
For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace


so with this I will tell a personal story that you may be able to relate to. At last, everything can come together and be more clear...not now though, I have to go.


1 Corinthians 6:17
But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.

I think I get what you are saying...
I agree with everything that you said there (And who am I not to) But eating the flesh and drinking the blood as Spurgeon putts is his flesh broken on the cross and his blood poured forth for our redemption and so off eating his flesh and drinking his blood is believing the Gospel and so if you dont believe in the gospel (which I know everyone here does) you can have no life in you.
I would think that the scriptures are the water off life that comes forth from heaven since they are divinely inspired and may we drink off it as much as it does quench our thirst for the living God who wrote it.

Amen.

PS: I cant wait to hear you story.

Good luck with that!-lol

Silver, how can one be forgiven for suicide?

Well I should have pointed out that I fully believe in our first parents Adam and Eve, if not than when Paul said, through one man sin came etc that would be a lie and the whole idea off us being sinners a lie.
In fact when ever I see two couples together I am reminded off my first parents and am also reminded off the fact that we are all related through them being their offspring, every man is your brother, every woman your sister and when you see that (And I am not saying that you dont) than it is easier to treat them as such.

Hi folks. If I may be allowed to interject.

Quite a long time ago, I had to come to grips with some gnawing questions concerning the Bible, and what it says.  As a reasonably intelligent person ( I know to come in out of the rain...unless I'm fishin'!), and one who likes to find answers, I found myself beginning to question the pervasive idea among the intelligentsia and academics concerning the ephemeral nature of the Bible.  According to post-modern thought, and "higher criticism", it was dangerous to be too literal with what was written, and we "really need to examine the intended spiritual applications of these non-historical events..."

For awhile, it was a good exercise in mental gymnastics....bend this, fracture that, re-combine the essence of that thought and this thought, etc.

Unfortunately, I began to see that not only was this kind of exercise unfruitful in finding answers, it propagates the exact mindset that scripture is intended to combat.

All humanity desires, even if they don't recognize it, a measure of stability...an anchor point of some kind that is capable of standing up to, and overcoming any kind of storm, or problem, that may come against it. In other words, man wants to know.....TRUTH.  That's Truth with a capital T, Truth that is unchanging, immutable, and impeccable.

Does such Truth exist? Or is truth something that is subject to change or re-interpretation according to circumstance, or how modern or intelligent or learned we become?

If truth is subject to change, then it cannot possibly meet any reasonable definition of what truth is. This kind of truth could better be described as situational, in flux, constantly changing according to the whims or dictates of anyone and everyone according to whats going on.....and that does not seem to be any truth at all.

Truth must be absolute, and if not, it needs to be called something else. When I'm 95, I NEED to be able to KNOW that 2+3=5, EXACTLY as it did when I learned of it at the age of 5.  

As it applies to God, and to His Word, lets examine a couple of things. Either God is absolute, or He cannot be God.  Anything less than absolute would render God not worthy of being called God.  Anything less than absolute perfection would then imply less than perfection, and therefore not worthy of being considered God....unless, of course, your concept of God is that He's the  same as your next door neighbor.  Would you call your neighbor God?

God gives us a few clues to go by in the Bible, in terms of determining how absolute He might be.

Num 23:19 God [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Well, He tells us here that He is not like us, and because of that, He doesn't have to (or will) lie. He leaves that up to us imperfect men to do.  He also says that He is not one of our kids, who is required to turn away from childish activity, or horse-play, or mistake making.  He also says that when He says a thing, He does it. Period.

OK, so God is not a liar; when He speaks, what He speaks comes to pass, and He guarantees it.

Mal 3:6 For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Ahhhh,....one step further. Not only does He not lie, and what He says happens, He tells us that He DOES NOT change from day to day, or circumstance to circumstance.  No situational ethics with Him.  Black and white, no gray, and it doesn't matter what era, eon, year, century, epoch or dispensation we're in.  He is the same through them all.

Hbr 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Same thing again, right? No change.....immutable.....solid as a rock.....

So we begin to see a pattern, and that pattern is that what God speaks is, to all intents and purposes, unchanging, and unchangeable.

Next we see that over the years, He did speak a few things, and those things were written down.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

It's important to note that the words "given by inspiration" is, in the Greek, theopneustos. From theo, meaning God, and neustos, for breathing, we then have "God breathed."  Another way of saying that God spoke the words.

2Pe 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.

Here Peter makes it known in no uncertain terms that selected (by God) holy men spoke (or wrote) AS they were moved by God through the Holy Spirit, and spoke or wrote the things that God was "breathing out,".....in other words, they were an instrument speaking on behalf of God.  Please not that in vs. 20, the words "private interpretation" are "idios epilusis," and should best be rendered as "personal unloosening".  These men did not speak of or by themselves.

Finally, Jesus said:
Jhn 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Summed up all together, it seems that what we have is direction that what God has said (prophecy->scripture) is truth, with a capital T....and that Truth is immutable...not subject to change.

Every reasonable and thinking person alive who approaches the Word of God can recognize that over the millennia, copyists and scribes have introduced some errors in words and translations....but the existence of those errors are considered very minor, actually being less than 1/5 of 1% of ALL the words in the Bible.

It is also being shown more and more that the scoffers and nay-sayers of the "higher criticism" group who like to claim that the Bible is not historically accurate are being proven wrong on almost a daily basis.

 We can make a choice. We can choose to believe that what God has said, and caused to be written down IS His word, and therefore inviolable, and unchanging. If we do, we can then "take it to the bank!", or hang our hat on it.  If we don't, then we are left with the unenviable task of trying to figure out what it "really" means, and to apply our OWN interpretation....and that then becomes an entirely subjective approach, dependent upon our own whims, desires, leanings, emotions and faults....and those might change tomorrow!

I like what Jesus said about John the Baptist, when He asked the people "what did you come out for to see?  a reed shaken in the wind?"

I like being able to have something to hold on to, that won't change, that gives me stability, and an anchor.  Without it, then my life is just like the house on shifting sand...................

Guess I'm a fundy.  ;D

That was beautiful man- :'(

Brother, you'll have to look back at john 6:48 and read to verse 63. Jesus said that he was the "Bread of life." And then He tells his disciples that it is "The Spirit that gives life; the flesh counts for nothing." You see, Jesus's flesh was first the Word of God (John 1:1). But then after his death and ressurection he became a Life-giving Spirit. In the beginning He was word and then in the end He became a Life giving spirit. It's very confusing still to me but this is how the Word of God is spirit and life to us.

Yes, the bread of life is the gospel which is the Word of God. But again look at verse 63, "The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life."

We eat of Jesus's flesh by eating the Word of God. This includes the gospel. "My Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life." This is like milk for a newborn infant. But what about us older Christians? What's an aspect of eating? We eat to grow! We keep eating of it. They are spirit and they are life. Again I emphasize, His words are spirit. Notice that Jesus did not say, "the words are intellectually satisfying (mind)" or "the words are physically stimulating (body)" but are spirit...and they are life. This is very important.

I am weary about my personal testimony. It is long and I do not have the stamina in writing(sound ackward but I just dont). My mind keeps taking over wanting to tell you the things I want but I know I need to write the things that God wants. I'll pray to God about it and see what His will for me is.

I believe the Bible fully,but here's what scaries me the most.
My Uncle and I where driving home from church and we were talking and he told me the scariest thing!!!!!!!You know how the Bible was rewrote so many times.Well some hebrew couldn't be translated over so some is missing there.Then people who recopy the Bible TAKE THINGS OUT OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really couldn't believe it at one time they were going to take out the book "Revelations" BECAUSE IT WAS TO VIOLENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!Now I'm scaried I'm missing some important thing,but I don't think God would let that happen.Would he?

I don't think it's time yet for me to write the personal testimony. I sort of think it would go off topic cause there are just so many things to be said about it that doesn't all pertain to bible reading.


I thought I'd share this instead to further the understanding of our "bread of life" the living and abiding Word of God.

Do any of you pray the Golden Prayer?

"Hallowed by thy name
Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven
Give us today our daily bread..."

Many would think that this is physical nourishment. It's even better than that! Is it just bread for the body?

Consider what Jesus said to Satan while He was tempted in the desert...
Jesus said, "Man shall not live on bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God."

The Word of God is the bread of life! This is our daily bread! Consider this also...
When God created man God breathed into the nostrils of the form and it became a living soul. Now why then is scripture called "God-breathed."

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is Godbreathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness

The greek translation is "breathed". All scripture is God breathed. It does not say God-written, God-said, God-commanded but God-breathed.

The Word is spirit and life!

Interesting, you are right felix...all Scripture is God-breathed. I pray the Disciple's prayer when we have the Lord's supper, but that's the only time I pray it. Mostly I go to God with my petitions like He's my father, and is sitting right next to me. I'm glad you called it something that the "Lord's Prayer" It amazes me how this is taught in Sunday School that this is the true Lord's Prayer. This prayer in no way embodies all of Christ's teachings about prayer and communion with the Father. Now JOhn 17 does all of the above. Notice Jesus said "Pray Ye: Our Father, which art in heaven." Jesus said "You pray..." Not I pray. Just thought I'd throw that in there. And Shemaya your uncle needs to re-read his history, because they've translated all of the Hebrew, there isn't anything such as untranslated hebrew. It's all there, and it's all been translated. And you're right some people do take away Revelation...however, if they do, they are doing a grave danger, because they choose to ignore Jesus' warning in chapter 23 i believe. Just a few thoughts. God Bless

Joshua

Brothers and Sisters,

God is so wonderful and loving. God seeks to be with you. This is His desire.


Bible fundamentalism and liberalism are not necessarily bad things. From a mindly sort of view I can say that not each group is always correct as there are some scripture that is figurative and some that is literal. But where is the Truth? Not the truth, but the Truth. There is only one. We have the Spirit of Truth.

There are many Brothers and Sisters who have found bible studying to be dry and ineffective. This is because scripture is being exercised ONLY by the mind. For scripture to become life and spirit to us we must pray over them. This is how you exercise your spirit.

Brothers and Sisters, You all must know that the bible is the Word of God. His Words are eternal. His Words are spirit and life. (pat on the back for whoever digs up these verses and puts them on here). This is what the bible says. This is what the Word of God says. But, we often overlook this essential thing in our Christ lives.

What we must do is pray over each verse we read. Meditate on it throughout the day; say it to God. By this the Word will be transformed from the letter (which kills) to spirit (which gives life).


God is so loving and desires us to dwell in Him and enjoy Him.

Stand fast therefore in the liberty [to liberate, that is, to exempt (from moral, ceremonial or mortal liability): - deliver, make free.] wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.  Gal 5:1

We really don't need all this verbal abuse going on.  Each camp, Liberal and Conservative, can learn from each other.  Some fundamentalist need to learn to be more patient and maybe explain their viewpoints better than just throwing a scripture at someone.  Liberals have to stop calling conservatives any number of insults.  Conservatives are not without empathy toward sinners but perhaps need more tools than just scripture alone to explain sins and why they are displeasing to God.  (Sometimes only the Holy Spirit can convince someone of their sin.)  

The more I study scripture, the more conservative I become in my belief.  Trying to understand the original language used Hebrew and Greek, makes the meaning of the English translation so much clearer.  Anyone who has studied languages knows that they are expressions and idioms that make speech and literature more colourful and illustrative.  We also need to cross reference in scripture and not just quote individual verses.  I have seen individual scripture verses used, wrongly, to support polygamy and even sex change operations.  Ridiculous,  they must have learned how to do it from the film "Foot Loose".  

Some liberals are pushing off some commandments and some sins because they think that "modern" thinking can excuse or explain things otherwise.  Just because I don't understand a reason for one of God's laws, doesn't mean I shouldn't obey.  For example, Jews were not permitted to eat pork.  They saw their neighbours eating pigs.  That pork rib BBQ must have been very tempting but the Israelites wouldn't partake.  Later due to science we discover pork might not have been so healthy to eat anyway.  Swine tend to eat garbage, have many parasites, and their meat is very fatty.  -Not healthy at all.  God knows more about the universe that us since He created it.  

Sorry, I just can't be a liberal.  

There is no secret meanings or levels of meanings in scripture like high school English teachers are trying to put across. Why would someone like Paul, for example, write something that he didn't mean to be understood?  There really is only one meaning for scripture, the one that the original author had intended and that was inspired by God.  

Silver, I am not totally sure what liberalism is, but if it's a way to interpret the bible then that is what I am refering to.

Fundamentalism and Liberalism are both stances of the mind. This is where we use our minds to understanding scripture. We know that to understand some things in scripture we must study it...have a bible study. Such as checking the history, context, original connotation, and all these things dealing with scholastics. All wants to be lead to the truth; in other words, they want to find what the bible is really saying.

However, there is only ONE way to experience the Truth. It is by spirit, not the mind! When I said "fundamentalism and liberalism" are not necessarily bad things I mean that they are not bad things in the context that it is dissecting the scriptures with the mind.

God first commanded man to eat. And this is still our command. However, will we eat from the tree of life or the tree of knowledge? Which is life and which is death?

To eat from the tree of life we need to pray verses to God. Meditate on a verse throughout the day. By this the Word of God becomes alive instead of just a letter. "For the letter kills."

It truly does not matter which bible version you have.

Jeremiah 15:16
When your words came, I ate them; they were my joy and my heart's delight, for I bear your name, O LORD God Almighty.

You may be asking, "Am I saying that we don't need to use our mind at all?"

Of course not. That wouldn't be possible. Our mind is a medium between our body and spirit. We perceive things first with the body, then the mind, and then the spirit. So yes, you will have to have a mind to first understand the scripture. But if it stops there, then it is just death. The Word of God is the Bread of Life! We transform it from the letter into the Spirit.