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Top of the fold -- Lying about Iraq...Part 1

"Lying to Congress, lying to our committees and lying to the American people -- it's wrong, it's immoral." So said self-appointed arbiter of truth and morality Sen. Mark Dayton at this week's confirmation hearings for Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. (This would be the same Minnesota Democrat better known as "Chicken of 10,000 Lakes" for his cowardly pre-holiday Beltway skedaddle from a terrorist alert that none of his 99 senatorial colleagues bothered to heed. Dayton is up for re-election in 2006.)

Indiana Sen. Evan Bayh, apparently eyeing a 2008 presidential run, inveighed, "The list of errors is lengthy and profound, and unfortunately many could have been avoided, had [the Bush  administration] only listened to [my] counsel." (Speaking of errors, this is the same Evan Bayh who, on the eve of Operation Iraqi Freedom, declared, "I don't understand those who want to wait until the threat [from Iraq] is imminent. The consequences of error could be catastrophic.")

Of course, where prevaricators gather, like sharks sensing blood in the water, one always finds the portly and pickled Ted Kennedy, who provided this insight on the eve of Iraq's first democratic election:

"We must learn from our mistakes. We must recognize what a large and growing number of Iraqis now believe -- the war in Iraq has become a war against the American occupation. ... Our military presence has become part of the problem, not the solution." Heck, who needs Baghdad Bob or Peter Arnett when Kennedy's on the case?

Other Demos joined this tired anti-American Leftist refrain,
doing what they do best -- fomenting division in order to undermine support for anything Republican, regardless of the consequences. What consequences? Not only are these Demos spreading lies and dividing American support for critical national-security operations, but their words aid, abet, and encourage our enemy to continue killing U.S. service personnel and innocent Iraqis -- and on the eve of the first democratic
elections in Iraq's history. (In fairness to Kennedy, et al., though,
America will hold democratic mid-term elections in 2006.)

So, just what is the truth about our military operations in and around Iraq?

To counter all the Leftist obfuscation about U.S. national security interests in the Middle East and to explain the necessity of our military presence in the region, what follows is a much-needed primer -- not only on why our Armed Forces are in Iraq (and border states), but also why they should remain in the region for the foreseeable future.

Western democracies, particularly those beacons of liberty (the U.S. and our Allies), are at war with Jihadistan, a borderless nation of Islamic fascists comprising al-Qa'ida and other Islamist terrorist groups and their malcontent sects. A borderless nation? The "Islamic World" of the Quran recognizes no political borders. Though orthodox Muslims (those who subscribe to the teachings of the "pre-Medina" Quran) do not support acts of terrorism or mass murder, very large sects within the Islamic world subscribe to the "post-Mecca" Quran and Hadiths (Mohammed's teachings). It is this latter group of death-worshipping sects that calls for jihad, or "holy war," against all "the enemies of God." They thus constitute an enemy without borders -- a nation of "holy" warriors called Jihadistan.

While the Bush administration is careful not to paint Islam with a
broad brush, the correct way to understand this enemy, in order to engage and destroy it, is to cast off the historic symmetric-warfare model; this enemy is simply not a political entity. As President George Bush correctly noted in October of 2001, "Our war on terror begins with al-Qa'ida, but it does not end there. It will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated. ... This war will not be like the war against Iraq a decade ago, with a decisive liberation of territory and a swift conclusion."
__________________See Part Two

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Top of the fold -- Lying about Iraq...Part 2

Jihadi terrorism (type asymmetric warfare) had its origins with the People's Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) almost 40 years ago. There, Islamists inflicted terror first against Israel, and then, working westward, against democratic targets in Europe. Yet despite subsequent attacks on U.S. personnel in that region -- the bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon in 1983, for example -- it was not until 1993 that our homeland became a frontline in the war with Jihadistan.

On 26 February, 1993, Pakistani native Ramzi Ahmed Yousef and his terrorist brethren (who had entered the United States on Iraqi passports under the control of Iraqi intelligence) bombed the north tower of the World Trade Center in an effort to topple that tower into the south tower and inflict mass civilian casualties. Fortunately, due to Ramzi's lack of engineering knowledge, his crude truck-bomb didn't topple the building, though it created a six-story crater in the parking garage.

Although Ramzi escaped, several other terrorists were captured
and tried. Ramzi himself was finally arrested in 1995, while
formulating plans to bomb a number of U.S. international flights
simultaneously. After 1995, al-Qa'ida Jihadis focused on American targets abroad -- the Khobar Towers in 1996, U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, and the U.S.S. Cole in 2000 -- all without reprisal from the Clinton administration.

In 2001, Ramzi's uncle, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed (the number-three thug in the al-Qa'ida organization), and Ramzi's mentor, Jihadi sheik Osama bin Laden himself, revised Ramzi's plan to use civilian aircraft for terrorist ends -- using them as bombs rather than bombing them. On 11 September of that year, one of al-Qa'ida's U.S. terrorist cells finished the business that Ramzi started almost a decade earlier, with devastating consequences.

On that Tuesday morning, the American people were awakened to an imminent threat to our homeland, and before noon that day, our common sense of invincibility had all but vanished. Indeed, given the nature, planning and sophistication of the attack, a larger question loomed in the minds of all rational people: What moral obstacles would prevent surrogate terrorists from using WMD provided by rogue nation states under tyrants like Saddam Hussein? What would prevent al-Qa'ida from
detonating a fissionable weapon in a U.S. urban center?

That question would have to be answered by President George W. Bush, whose administration had been operational for only eight months prior to the 9/11 attack -- a period preceded by eight long years of Clinton administration inaction and appeasement of terrorists, as repeatedly noted in this column during those years.

President Bush determined, correctly, that the war being waged on the U.S. and its Allies could not be resolved diplomatically, nor could it be won defensively. Al-Qa'ida and other elements of Jihadistan, he surmised, could be defeated only by way of pre-emptive strikes, in keeping with the dictum of military strategist Carl von Clausewitz: "The best form of defense is attack."

In 2001, The Patriot's military and intelligence analysts were out
front in our characterization of the war with Jihadistan and our support for the Bush strategic doctrine of preemption -- taking the battle to the enemy.

To that end Sen. Edward Kennedy, never one to miss an opportunity to use the deaths of American military personnel as political fodder, unwittingly endorsed the Bush Doctrine this week: "The war has made Iraq a breeding ground for terrorism...."

Precisely.

The principal objective of President Bush's doctrine of pre-emption -- Operation Enduring Freedom (or "Operation Let's Roll," as it's known around our shop) -- is to keep the front lines of our war with Jihadistan on their turf, rather than our own. Our Armed Forces are the most capable, best-trained and best-equipped in history, and they've issued a standing invitation to Jihadis worldwide to engage them in Iraq, where tens of thousands of these vermin have met their fate.
___________________________See Part 3

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Top of the fold -- Lying about Iraq...Part 3

Why Iraq? In 1991, Saddam Hussein signed a binding agreement of surrender as a precondition to the cessation of Gulf War hostilities -- the subsequent violation of which was, in effect, grounds to resume the military campaign against Iraq. After a jaw-slackening 17th UN resolution to disarm was flouted by Saddam, the Bush administration determined that Iraq would be a suitable, logical and defensible front line with Jihadistan.

Let's be clear: American forces are NOT, first and foremost, "fighting for Iraq's freedom." They are fighting for U.S. national-security interests and those of the free world, which was, and to a lesser degree (thanks to our considerable military achievements), remains, in great peril. Ultimately, these two objectives are inextricably bound. Our ultimate objective in Iraq is to establish a forward deployed presence in the Middle East -- military personnel, but primarily equipment -- now that the Saudis have pulled our lease. Our analysts estimate that once the new Iraqi government is seated, the U.S. will be invited to establish permanent military installations in southern Iraq. This presence is critical, given that it would place us in the heart of Jihadistan, with the ability to protect our national interests in the region quickly without having to respond via sea and airlift. Our sources indicate that this new forward presence will be offset by part of our Cold War tactical and strategic assets in Germany.

Regarding all the clatter about Saddam's "nonexistent" WMD programs and stores, what we don't know only constitutes what is yet to be known: and ignorance, when it comes to WMD, is not bliss.

As The Patriot noted in October 2002, our well-placed sources in the region and intelligence sources with the NSA and NRO estimated that the UN Security Council's foot-dragging provided an ample window for Saddam to export some or all of his deadliest WMD materials and components. At that time, we reported that Allied Forces would be unlikely to discover Iraq's WMD stores, noting, "Our sources estimate that Iraq has shipped some or all of its biological stockpiles and nuclear WMD components through Syria to southern Lebanon's heavily fortified Bekaa Valley." In December of 2002, our senior-level intelligence sources re-confirmed estimates that some of Iraq's biological and nuclear WMD material and components had, in fact, been moved into Syria and Iran. That movement continued until President Bush finally pulled the plug on the UN's ruse.

According to publicly released findings, Saddam was not successful in his attempts to reconstitute his nuclear-arms program in 2000 and 2001 -- leaving Iraq's research programs short of the progress made by other terrorist states such as Iran and Libya (as recently discovered). In other words, Saddam's formal nuclear WMD research programs were in disarray, but we do not know how much material and technological capability Iraq imported to support this program prior to 2002. (Our intelligence sources suggest it is very possible that Saddam had the capability to construct as many as three crude portable nuclear devices prior to 2002.)

To that end, our military sources assure us that Special Forces/CIA units continue search-and-destroy missions in the region -- outside Iraq. (Don't expect to read about these missions in The New York Times or The Washington Post.)

As for the elections in Iraq, clearly the establishment of a
democracy in the Jewel of Islam is antithetical to the tyrannical rule desired by Jihadi sheiks. In December, Osama bin Laden proclaimed, "Anyone who participates in these elections has committed apostasy against Allah." And last week, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, al-Qa'ida's "prince of terror" in Iraq, declared: "We have declared a fierce war on this evil principle of democracy and those who follow this wrong ideology. Democracy is also based on the right to choose your religion, [and that] is against the rule of God."

The pro-liberty pressures will undoubtedly (even if unsuccessful in the short term) counteract the advance of Jihadistan across the globe. The difficulty will be evaluating what constitutes success -- and our objectives must of necessity be limited.
_____________________See Part 4

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Top of the fold -- Lying about Iraq...Part 4

Regarding international support for Operation Iraqi Freedom, President Bush's responsibility is to the people of the United States, not to cheese-eating surrender monkeys such as French President Jacques Chirac, nor any of his like-minded pantywaist Euro-snivelers.

No primer on our war with Jihadistan would be complete without this final note of caution: According to our analysts, the FBI estimates that as many as six Jihadi terrorist cells -- cells materially supported by domestic Islamic groups -- remain intact in U.S. urban centers, mostly on the East Coast. In addition, there are more than 1,200 terrorist-related investigations ongoing in the U.S., most involving individuals suspected of raising funds or recruiting for al-Qa'ida. Thus while the warfront with Jihadistan is in Iraq and Afghanistan, Jihadis terrorists are still on our soil -- ready and willing.

Publisher's Note: Early Wednesday, a CH-53E crashed, killing 30 Marines and a sailor. Initial reports indicate the pilot was unable to navigate in a sandstorm. We mourn the loss of these Patriots -- and this tragic event serves to remind all that military operations are dangerous, whether in a war zone or stateside. As always, we extend our heartfelt prayers to the families of all military personnel who have been killed or wounded in such operations.

I am saddened by the US church being duped by a one-issue campaign.  I would have everyone believe the "Bush/Cheney" bumpersticker:  Cheney is also at the helm.  Get to know him and your administration personally in their own words on the website "Project for a New American Century" at http://www.newamericancentury.org/.  Click on "Statement of Principles (see at the bottom that it was signed by Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz).  Excerpt:  "We aim to make the case and rally support for American global leadership."  This page is dated June 3, 1997 - in other words, long before 9/11.  While this may be run through some "spiritual leadership" or "moral leadership" filter, when you study the Statement of Principles carefully, it is primarily about economic interests.  Mention of military defense is of significantly lesser frequency.

Second, on this same website, visit "defense and national security", then click on "Rebuilding America's Defenses" which was released in September 2000 - note - also before 9/11.  When you get into their document on page 26 according to the Acrobat toolbar (14 within the document), read: "Indeed, the United States has for decades sought to play a more permanent role in Gulf regional security. While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein."  

Since this was written a year before 9/11, what does this tell us?

We can all put the "Christian president" fable away with the teddy bear, because while Bush seems quite sincere, a brief history study shows a hand up the president's back operating his mouth like a puppet, and that hand is Cheney's.  He's in office and he will accomplish his goal of world domination as stated in his own words.  Again by his own words (and please do familiarize yourselves with this website and its contents), Saddam Hussein is not the issue.

Everyone do yourselves and the church a favor and become very familiar with these policies on this website.  There's a lot to catch up on here.

Too bad Christians think this was such a moral victory, to elect Bush/Cheney, because I don't think an open lust to rule the world is a moral position.  Or when did Cheney announce his personal relationship with Jesus?

Cactusflower,

Well, we had an election, and the election is over. I simply give thanks that the American people don't agree with you. I don't agree with you either. We each have one vote, and we elect our Presidents here. So, it's all done for 4 more years.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 17:17  Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

I'm so saddened to see people who confess to follow the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ get caught up into the false gossip of politics especially when it comes to war. Christians in this country must first understand that even though we are citizens, we are the Lord's servants FIRST.

It amazes me that so many of us agree with violence in dealing with a enemy (such as Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden). Yet, what was Christ's words when it came to dealing with enemies:

Luke Chapter 6 27-36

[27] "But I say to you that hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
[28] bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.
[29] To him who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also; and from him who takes away your coat do not withhold even your shirt.
[30] Give to every one who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again.
[31] And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them.
[32] "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them.
[33] And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same.
[34] And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
[35] But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and the selfish.
[36] Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful.

Has our so-called Christian President ever persuaded Americans that we should pray for Saddam and Osama?
Just because the American people were deceived into electing this man doesn't justify his actions. As Christians,
no matter who we go to the booth to vote for has NO bearing on your relationship with Christ. Its all about saving souls whether you are Republican, Democrat, black, white.

Luke chapter 6 47-49

47] Every one who comes to me and hears my words and does them, I will show you what he is like:
[48] he is like a man building a house, who dug deep, and laid the foundation upon rock; and when a flood arose, the stream broke against that house, and could not shake it, because it had been well built.
[49] But he who hears and does not do them is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation; against which the stream broke, and immediately it fell, and the ruin of that house was great."

cagorham,

There's a big difference between a Christian and a pacifist.

Some people actually believe that they can't defend themselves or their families. If you think this is what God tells you, so be it.

Maybe you might remember the many times that God sent his people into battle - both offense and defense. Take a look in the Holy Bible and you should quickly find it.

I won't argue this with you. I'll simply tell you that I give thanks for the defenders of our freedoms. If you think that the Hitlers of the world should go unopposed and people should face death without lifting a finger, you are most welcome to your opinion. You are also welcome to your thoughts that God has told you this. I would simply give thanks that hosts of Christian soldiers did not share your opinion.

Cagorham, I respect your opinion, but I disagree.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Isaiah 26:3  Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.

cagorham,

I have done a lot of study on this subject as I was in the Military and these questions were foremost in my mind. Was what I was doing right in the eyes of the Lord. I would like to share with you and others on this forum what I found in the Bible on this subject.

_________________________________________________

Nehemiah, a great prophet of God said, "Neh 4:14 And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. "

Some Christians support the belief that as a Christian we are to be pacifists. Using scripture such as "Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." and " Luk 6:29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. " to support their belief. They also stand by the belief that the New Testament teachings are of pacificism.

Pacifism is a non biblical position. Although being able to appeal to superficial arguments of conscience and quote the odd verse out of content - the whole spirit and thrust of pacifism is anti Christian. Pacifists may be sincere - but they are sincerely wrong.
A Christian, by definition, must be active - with his or her sleeves rolled up, being willing to get his hands dirty protecting the innocent, defending the defenceless and saving lives from unprovoked aggression. Christian love is not mere words and sentiments. True love shows itself in action. (1 John 3:18). If all the people with a conscience refuse to fight then it will leave the battle fields in the hands of men without a conscience.

Pacifism finds it's rots in HUMANISM. Despite some impressive but superficial Christian pretension, pacifism is humanism. In common with humanism, pacifism shares a false idea of man. It sees man as basically good. To the pacifist all people are just too good to kill. Neither rapists, murderers nor terrorists deserve to be stopped, in the view of the pacifist.
In contrast to this notion of people being basically good, the Bible teaches us that the heart of man is desperately wicked and deceitful;that they are quick to hurt and kill; they leave ruin and destruction wherever they go... everyone has sinned and is far away from God's saving presence. (Romans 3:15,23) Pacifists often display more concern for the aggressor than for the defender, more sympathy for the criminal than for his victim.

Our Lord Jesus may have been meek but He was never mild! His teaching was powerful, dynamic, direct and uncompromising. This tough carpenter from Nazareth was able to survive forty days fasting in the desert and forty lashes from the brutal Roman whip. He could walk hundreds of kilometers in the blazing heat of Palestine's inhospitable terrain and He could walk through a murderous mob with such a presence that no-one dared stop Him (Luke 4:28-30).
When Jesus saw how corrupt men were desecrating the temple with their money-grabbing greed, He made a whip, overturned their tables and drove them forcibly from God's House (Matthew 21:12-13).
Jesus told His disciples, "Luk 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

When Jesus returns to this world it will be as the conquering King of Kings and Lord of Lords. The Bible teaches us that the first time Jesus came as a Saviour - and all who turn from their sin and trust in Christ, following Him in obedience, are saved. But when Jesus comes again it will be as Judge - and all who have not repented and obeyed will be condemned and eternally punished. The Scripture warns us that when Jesus returns He will annihilate the forces of the false church and the Antichrist. We are told that rivers of blood will flow from the carnage of mankind's rebellion against Christ (Revelation 14:19-20).

"....... and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. (Revelation 19:11,15,16).


Pacifism also has an unrealistic view of society. The reality of this world is that it is a fallen world, inhabited by sinful mankind in rebellion against the Creator. Idealistic fantasies about a world of peace and Utopia without war are cruelly false and dangerously deceptive. In the Bible we are warned that those who say 'Peace! Peace!' when there is no peace are 'loathsome' false prophets (Jeremiah 6:!4; 8:11). Jesus warned us that 'wars and revolutions' would increase (Matthew 24:6,7; Luke 21:9,10). We are warned in the scriptures that 'While people are saying 'Peace and Safety', destruction will come on them suddenly.' (I Thessalonians 5:3)
'PEACE' seems to be the modern equivalent of Baal worship. There is an irrational worship of peace. This selfish materialistic age has made an idol out of peace. 'Peace at any price' inevitably leads to tyranny and destruction - the peace of a graveyard.
People say that war is hell - but often peace is worse. More people died in the peace following the revolution in CAMBODIA than died in the entire war before it. Three-milion Cambodians (40% of the population) were slaughtered by Pol Pot's Marxist Khmer Rouge in the 'peace' following 1975. In fact, more people have been tortured, maimed and massacred in times of peace than in times of war during this century!
Have we become so soft, decadent and self-seeking that we are no longer willing to risk our lives for anything? Is nothing worth fighting for? Do we have nothing worth defending? Do we care so little for others that we're unwilling to risk anything for their protection? Are we so engrossed in watching videos, in 'wine, women and song' that we can no longer tell the difference between right and wrong? Or don't we even care?
For centuries Christians have believed that there were worse things than war. For our ancestors death in battle was not the worst thing that could happen to them. An eternity in hell was. They did not fear death. They feared God. They realised that death for the Christian is not fatal. They had a clear belief in eternal life. Principles were more important then personal safety. Duty, honor, country, family and God meant more to them than selfish desires for peace and safety. And thank God for that because the faith and freedoms we enjoy were won and preserved by their blood, sweat and sacrifices.
The wise Christian does not seek to selfishly avoid the problems of this world, but courageously steps out in faith to be part of the solution. We should recognize that sinful man needs to be restrained by laws and by force, that liberty needs to be defended, that our freedoms came through, and often need to be maintained by hard fighting.
If all Christians became pacifists, would all non-Christians also become pacifists?
Not likely.

It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism - while the wolf remains of a different opinion. The Bible declares: 'Blessed are the peacemakers' - Matthew 5:9. NOT blessed are the pacifists! You have to make peace. It takes action. For the pacifists hoping for worldwide peace - Jesus said: 'Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.' (Matthew 10:34)

______________________________________________

My friend,

You are really missing the point about how God wants us to live, think, and react to the world. Look at what Jesus went through, did he resort to violence??? Yet he suffered for our sakes. Doesn't the scriptures says we should have his mind-set:

1 Corinthians 2:16
[16] "For who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

We are living under the new convenant not the old which means we must follow the teachings of Christ according to what he wants us to live by. In the old testament, God allowed his people to go into war because men chose not to follow his ways. Under the new covenant, everything is spiritual not physical. The war is spiritual. You true enemy isn't Saddam, Osama or any other man, its the Devil and his demons.

Ephesians 6:12
[12] For we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.


The so-called Hitlers of the world will not go unoppsed in the world because as the Lord said: Hebrews chapter 10 verse 30

For we know him who said, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay." And again, "The Lord will judge his people."

Don't you believe that the Lord will bring justice to those who oppose him and do evil??

Also, your comments on what I feel God has told me isn't accurate considering I was quoting scripture which we all know is the word of God.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
[16] All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
[17] that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

My friend, trade in the gospel of man for the gospel of Christ.
I will keep you in my prayers.

The following is from a study done by a fellow Pastor and good friend of mine:


Human Governments (Romans 13:1)

Gr. EXOUSIA, means delegated authority. All authorities are ordained (GR. TASSO, means appointed or determined) of God. That is, in God’s plan He has determined that human government shall exist to help Him carry on moral government and enforce moral laws. God appoints them, but He is not responsible for their acts. If they get out of line He will judge them, as He will gospel ministers.

7 facts about human governments:

1—They were instituted by God (Romans 13:1-6; Genesis 9:1-7; 1 Peter 2:13-17);

2—Their purpose was to execute criminals and enforce law and order among men (Romans 13:1-61 Peter 2:13-17; Genesis 9:6; Isaiah 11:4-9; Daniel 2:21; Daniel 4:17-25; and Daniel 5:21);

3—It is the duty of Christians and others to help establish and support human government for the preservation of society and promotion of the highest good of man (Romans 13:1-6; 1 Peter 2:13-17);

4—Governments were instituted to govern by force and to punish not only local and individual criminals, but also universal and national criminals. This includes execution of war to put down criminal nations as well as criminal individuals (Romans 13:1-5; 1 Peter 2:13-17; Daniel 2:21; Daniel 4:17-25; and Daniel 5:21);

5—Christians are not to leave popular government up to the ungodly. To neglect good government is to neglect the salvation of souls. Promotion of public and private good is one of the greatest means of saving souls. Christians should vote and enter public life to promote good government so that the gospel will not be hindered and stamped out. Both reason and experience, as well as the Bible make this obligatory upon all. Since government is necessary for the best good of all, it is the duty of every Christian to help bring about the best government to secure this end (Romans 13:1-6; 1 Timothy 1:8-10);

6—Human governments, therefore, are not founded upon the arbitrary will of God, but upon the needs of humanity in securing their highest good. If in a small family, law and penalties are needed, how much more are they needed in communities, states, and nations. If government needs reforming, then let the Christians bring about such reform. If they require nothing contrary to God, moral obligations, and the conscience, and if they meet the needs of those governed, they should be perpetuated (Romans 13:1-6); and

7—Upon the grounds of the best public interests, it becomes the duty of human governments to use all necessary means to attain this end. It is absurd to believe that rulers have the right to govern, and not the right to use the necessary means to carry on good government. Such error or belief causes many Christians to object to the right of capital punishment, the right to deal with mobs, to suppress rebellions, and to make wars on criminal nations.

When a person sells himself to destroy the best good of others, it becomes necessary to take him from the society he seeks to destroy. In such cases it becomes necessary to deal with individuals, and nations to enforce law and order for the best good of all. It must be both the right and the duty of government and al its subjects to use every necessary and possible means to suppress rebellion and enforce respect for law and order. Rulers are God’s ministers to execute God’s wrath upon the ungodly and preserve moral law and government for the good of all (Romans 13:1-6; 1 Peter 2:13-17).

References:

Romans 13:1-6:
“Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.” KJV
“LET EVERY person be loyally subject to the governing (civil) authorities. For there is no authority except from God [by His permission, His sanction], and those that exist do so by God's appointment. [Prov 8:15.] Therefore he who resists and sets himself up against the authorities resists what God has appointed and arranged [in divine order]. And those who resist will bring down judgment upon themselves [receiving the penalty due them]. For civil authorities are not a terror to [people of] good conduct, but to [those of] bad behavior. Would you have no dread of him who is in authority? Then do what is right and you will receive his approval and commendation. For he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, [you should dread him and] be afraid, for he does not bear and wear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant to execute His wrath (punishment, vengeance) on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be subject, not only to avoid God's wrath and escape punishment, but also as a matter of principle and for the sake of conscience. For this same reason you pay taxes, for [the civil authorities] are official servants under God, devoting themselves to attending to this very service.” AMP

Genesis 9:1-7:
“And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.” KJV

(to be cont'd)

(cont'd)

“AND GOD pronounced a blessing upon Noah and his sons and said to them, Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. And the fear of you and the dread and terror of you shall be upon every beast of the land, every bird of the air, all that creeps upon the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are delivered into your hand. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and as I gave you the green vegetables and plants, I give you everything. But you shall not eat flesh with the life of it, which is its blood. And surely for your lifeblood I will require an accounting; from every beast I will require it; and from man, from every man [who spills another's lifeblood] I will require a reckoning. Whoever sheds man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God He made man. And you, be fruitful and multiply; bring forth abundantly on the earth and multiply on it.” AMP

1 Peter 2:13-17:
“Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.” KJV

“Be submissive to every human institution and authority for the sake of the Lord, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, Or to governors as sent by him to bring vengeance (punishment, justice) to those who do wrong and to encourage those who do good service. For it is God's will and intention that by doing right [your good and honest lives] should silence (muzzle, gag) the ignorant charges and ill-informed criticisms of foolish persons. [Live] as free people, [yet] without employing your freedom as a pretext for wickedness; but [live at all times] as servants of God. Show respect for all men [treat them honorably]. Love the brotherhood (the Christian fraternity of which Christ is the Head). Reverence God. Honor the emperor.” AMP

Isaiah 11:4-9:
“But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.” KJV

“But with righteousness and justice shall He judge the poor and decide with fairness for the meek, the poor, and the downtrodden of the earth; and He shall smite the earth and the oppressor with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of His waist and faithfulness the girdle of His loins. And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid, and the calf and the young lion and the fatted domestic animal together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed side by side, their young shall lie down together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play over the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den. They shall not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.” AMP

Daniel 2:21:
“And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:” KJV
“He changes the times and the seasons; He removes kings and sets up kings. He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding! [Dan 4:35.]” AMP

Daniel 4:17-25:
“This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men. This dream I king Nebuchadnezzar have seen. Now thou, O Belteshazzar, declare the interpretation thereof, forasmuch as all the wise men of my kingdom are not able to make known unto me the interpretation: but thou art able; for the spirit of the holy gods is in thee. Then Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, was astonied for one hour, and his thoughts troubled him. The king spake, and said, Belteshazzar, let not the dream, or the interpretation thereof, trouble thee. Belteshazzar answered and said, My lord, the dream be to them that hate thee, and the interpretation thereof to thine enemies. The tree that thou sawest, which grew, and was strong, whose height reached unto the heaven, and the sight thereof to all the earth; Whose leaves were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all; under which the beasts of the field dwelt, and upon whose branches the fowls of the heaven had their habitation: It is thou, O king, that art grown and become strong: for thy greatness is grown, and reacheth unto heaven, and thy dominion to the end of the earth. And whereas the king saw a watcher and an holy one coming down from heaven, and saying, Hew the tree down, and destroy it; yet leave the stump of the roots thereof in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts of the field, till seven times pass over him; This is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the most High, which is come upon my lord the king: That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.” KJV

(to be cont'd)

(cont'd)

“This sentence is by the decree of the [heavenly] watchers and the decision is by the word of the holy ones, to the intent that the living may know that the Most High [God] rules the kingdom of mankind and gives it to whomever He will and sets over it the humblest and lowliest of men. [Dan 2:21; 5:21.] This dream I, King Nebuchadnezzar, have seen. And you, O Belteshazzar [Daniel], declare now its interpretation, since all the wise men of my kingdom are not able to make known to me the interpretation; but you are able, for the Spirit of the Holy God is in you. Then Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, was astonished and dismayed and stricken dumb for a while [concerned about the king's destiny], and his thoughts troubled, agitated, and alarmed him. The king said, Belteshazzar, let not the dream or its interpretation trouble or alarm you. Belteshazzar answered, My lord, may the dream be for those who hate you and its message for your enemies. The tree that you saw, which grew [great] and was strong, whose height reached to the heavens and which was visible to all the earth, Whose foliage was beautiful and its fruit abundant, on which was food for all, under which the living creatures of the field dwelt, and on whose branches the birds of the sky had their nests--It is you, O king, who have grown and become strong; your greatness has increased and it reaches to the heavens, and your dominion to the ends of the earth. And whereas the king saw a watcher, a holy one, coming down from heaven and saying, Cut the tree down and destroy it, but leave the stump of its roots in the earth with a band of iron and bronze around it, in the tender grass of the field; and let him be wet with the dew of the heavens, and let his portion be with the living creatures of the field until seven times [or years] pass over him--This is the interpretation, O king: It is the decree of the Most High [God] which has come upon my lord the king: You shall be driven from among men and your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field; you shall be made to eat grass as do the oxen and you shall be wet with the dew of the heavens; and seven times [or years] shall pass over you until you learn and know and recognize that the Most High [God] rules the kingdom of mankind and gives it to whomever He will.” AMP

Daniel 5:21:
“And he was driven from the sons of men; and his heart was made like the beasts, and his dwelling was with the wild asses: they fed him with grass like oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven; till he knew that the most high God ruled in the kingdom of men, and that he appointeth over it whomsoever he will.” KJV

“He was driven from among men, and his heart or mind was made like the beasts, and his dwelling was with the wild asses. He was fed with grass like oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of the heavens until he learned and knew that the Most High God rules in the kingdom of men and that He appoints and sets over it whomever He will.” AMP

1 Timothy 1:8-10:
“But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For *****mongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;” KJV

“Now we recognize and know that the Law is good if anyone uses it lawfully [for the purpose for which it was designed], Knowing and understanding this: that the Law is not enacted for the righteous (the upright and just, who are in right standing with God), but for the lawless and unruly, for the ungodly and sinful, for the irreverent and profane, for those who strike and beat and [even] murder fathers and strike and beat and [even] murder mothers, for manslayers, [For] impure and immoral persons, those who abuse themselves with men, kidnapers, liars, perjurers--and whatever else is opposed to wholesome teaching and sound doctrine “ AMP

Cagorham,

I firmly believe this, and I also firmly believe that I may be the tool God uses for this justice. As a Christian soldier and a Christian police officer for 25 years, I prayed at least daily for God to lead me and guide me to do HIS WILL. It didn't involve violence as a soldier, but it involved a lot of violence as a police officer. I simply give thanks that God allowed me to serve.

I give thanks and pray for our veterans and those who protect our freedom every day. I am very proud that my son IS a defender of our freedoms and way of life.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 16:8  I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.

Pastor Roger,

AMEN BROTHER!

I was just reflecting on how many times I could have used the studies you posted. They were excellent, and I thank you for sharing with us. I could have used these studies with my son. He is a strong Christian, but he is also a Veteran of Foreign War. Many of his mates are also strong Christians. None of them are pacifists, and all of them are proud to serve their country.

I have asked him how he and his mates feel about some of names our press and others call our Armed Forces. It makes them sick, and it makes them wonder if the people at home appreciate what they are doing. Most of their thoughts are very simple:

1- Fight the terrorists on our soil or take the fight to the terrorists wherever they are in the world. Many terrorists declared war on us over 10 years ago, and their declaration wasn't just empty words. They did bring war to us on our soil, and they would love to do 1,000 times more.

2-  Keep the terrorists so busy on their own soil that they can't organize further and bring the battles back to our soil. I really shouldn't call it battles since their primary targets will be innocent men, women, and children. It will be the acts of cowards against the innocent. When we go to war, the primary targets are combatants, not innocents. There are some innocents killed and hurt, but they were not the target, and care was taken to avoid innocent casualties. Well, the opposite is true for the terrorists. The more innocent men, women, and children who are killed and maimed, the better they consider the outcome.

3- The terrorists around the world are losing BIG right now. As a result, there is a recent call to bring the battle to American soil and kill as many innocent people as they can. There are many less terrorists now to come and do such deeds, specifically because they have been engaged by professional soldiers, not helpless innocents. The terrorists can't handle the professional soldiers, so their only hope is to fight helpless innocents. The terrorists want and demand war, but they want it with the helpless. So terrorist = coward!

Brother, I hope and pray that professional soldiers will keep the terrorists so busy that they can't get their hands on the innocent. However, I know this is wishful thinking. The terrorists are butchering the helpless around the world, and I think it is only a matter of time before they start butchering our helpless innocents again.

I will simply pray at least daily that God watches over the courageous men and women who are trying to stop the terrorists of the world and put them out of business. I will also thank them from the bottom of my heart for their service and sacrifice.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 46:1  God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.

Brother Beps, those comments above are so right on the mark. The recent call to stop the terrorists acts in Iraq and move it to American soil is already quite noticeable in Iraq. It is only a matter of time for it to begin on American soil again.

I pray that all the safeguards our govn't has put into place since 9/11 are effective enough to prevent these attempts.

I will simply pray at least daily that God watches over the courageous men and women who are trying to stop the terrorists of the world and put them out of business. I will also thank them from the bottom of my heart for their service and sacrifice.

My friend,

I would hope that you would pray also for the terrorists.
Does not the Lord's opportunity for grace shines on the just and the unjust?? You must understand, a Christian's war is against Satan not man. Christ's goal is for his servants to PREACH the gospel to every man (terrorists or non-terrorist) so they may have salvation. PLEASE PRAY FOR YOUR ENEMIES TOO.

The Lord commands his children to so:

[27] "But I say to you that hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
[28] bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you.

The pride of America ranks below serving the Lord who shows no favortism.

cagorham,

I, too, pray for all of our enemies that they will see the light and accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour. I also pray for all in the world that do not know Jesus will soon come to know Him as their Saviour.

 

Cagorham,

I do pray for the terrorists of this world. If they accepted Jesus, they would stop killing the helpless and innocent people all over the world.

Reference the pride of America, that has absolutely nothing to do with the war in Iraq. The war in Iraq is about terrorism, defense, and stalling the ignition of something 1,000 or 10,0000 times worse. So, it's about peace, safety, and freedom for many countries. There will come a day when Bible prophecy is unfolded, and things will be a million times worse. When that appointed time comes, no power will be able to slow, stall or stop it.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 8:31-34  What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Pastor Roger,

Brother, I'm a pretty positive person, but I think that everyone needs to think about reality. Stopping terrorism is almost as possible as stopping crime. Israel has some of the best counter-terrorism operations and tactics in the world, and we see how they must live.

Our vulnerability is much greater than Israel's. America is soft target rich for terrorists. There is no irony that our freedoms and way of life make for easy targets across America. The same is true for any other country with freedoms anywhere close to those of America.

I know that many, especially our Armed Services, have done a magnificent job in keeping America safe since 9-11. If anyone would have asked me if such success would be possible, I would have said NO. Now is it more than 3 years past 9-11, and I would quickly say that everyone who has anything to do with homeland security has done almost the impossible, especially the Armed Forces. In reflection, I would think taking the battle to the terrorists is the biggest factor in our current safety. However, I'm sorry to say that there will be more 9-11s on American soil, maybe smaller but maybe larger, and the number of attacks would be pure speculation.

Brother, if this is the unfolding of Bible prophecy, no nation will be safe or secure, and no nation will be able to slow or stall it by even a second. Until that time, I'm convinced that our Armed Services, police agencies, and intelligence agencies will do the best job possible. This should also be a matter of prayer for everyone.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Isaiah 30:26  Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

My friend,

Let me first just say I rejoice in the fact that you do pray for your enemies and I apologize for assuming you don't. Also,
I share your concerns for the dangers upon the world not that not only our country face, but the world. But you have to understand, these things must happen to fulfill prophecy and as you said in a previos post, it will get a million times worse.

Here's what the Lord has said about trying times:

Mark chapter 13 verses 7-10

[7] And when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed; this must take place, but the end is not yet.
[8] For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in various places, there will be famines; this is but the beginning of the birth-pangs.
[9] "But take heed to yourselves; for they will deliver you up to councils; and you will be beaten in synagogues; and you will stand before governors and kings for my sake, to bear testimony before them.
[10] And the gospel must first be preached to all nations.

Take note to the last verse.The gospel MUST be preached FIRST.

Taking the battle to the enemies means "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" mindset. This is not what the scriptures teaches and is exactly what Satan wants people to do.
The devil has America by the throat because she promotes herself as a virgin and pure before the world (vanity and pride). She believes she sets the example to the rest of the world on how to conduct ourselves. Yet America's sins are as high as heaven.

If anything my friend, please see that the TRUE war in the world isn't PHYSICAL, but SPIRITUAL.

Hello Brothers in the Lord,

I just read your discussion above and find it interesting that the bulk of conversation on this website (Christians Unite) about the war is found under the Politics heading.  As a newbie, I have browsed the site looking for major entries, current events, prayer requests and the like, thinking Iraq and the military might be mentioned there.  Sadly, there is little discussion elsewhere on the subject.

So I write to you recognizing that my interjection is a segway out of political discussion and into intercessory and ministry discussion (perhaps I should have looked under the ministry heading....)  To make this segway, let me share a personal story.  At a given moment during the past few years, I was faced with a decision about where my focus would lie on the Iraqi Operation Freedom issue.  Would it be on political debate (usually posed "around the water cooler"), the headline news (glaring at me as I entered my workplace each morning), or the word of God?  

Not to say your "think tank" discussion is wrong, but for this mother of an American soldier in Iraq, the word of God became my focus.  During my son's deployment, I received about 95% of my "news" from the Bible (intercession and prayer), 4% news from my son's Iraqi-soil perspective, and 1% from other sources.  I say this to emphasize the fact that although there are some differences in our focus, we are all united in one Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.  I trust we all want to see His purpose, His will, and His heart's desire for souls won into His kingdom, and to be accomplished in Iraq.  So it is from this point that I want to jump ahead and mention some issues that are burning desires inside me.

Although salvation is God's desire, not one American soldier was killed on election day!  Whatever military strategy they employed that day worked!  Why can't the military do it again?  Think like a mom.  You've got two kids fighting.  One is innocent and the other is guilty.  If you can't figure out who is which, you might ground them both to their rooms.  Eventually, the guilty one will get anxious and try sneaking out.  Then, you identify the guilty one and deal with him.  Yes, I realize that provisions would need to be made available in the homes for the innocent citizens.  (I won't go into all the details of my strategy here.)  But the point is that whatever strategies the forces are employing are almost daily ending in deaths.  It seems insane to keep doing the same thing over and over when it results in the same destruction over and over.  The daily body count reminds me of VietNam.  Don't you think we need a new strategic plan over there?

Also, I've thought quite a bit about the salvation of souls over there, not only within the military but also among the Iraqi people.  Bottomline, I believe salvation is God's heart.  If there can be any lasting glory to our Lord, let it be that souls are saved forever.  With that as God's heart, how can we Americans share the love of Jesus with the Iraqi people?  It's doubtful that we can send missionaries, (not that I want to go right now) but what about communication with Iraqi's.  What are the rules, the options, and the opportunities for relationships between Iraqi and American citizens--not military to Iraqi, but US civilian to Iraqi civilian?

Finally, I would like to respond to numerous comments that I read in your posts above, but there are simply too many to state in one reply.  I'll summarize by saying this:  Immediately after 911, the entire United States opened its voice and prayed "God bless America!"  Scores of people sought God.  Within months, the number dwindled.  I'm personally asking anyone who reads this to join me--even if we never even email each other--join me in daily fervent prayer for the salvation and safety of our military personnel and the Iraqi people, even the insurgeants!!  Further, while it is true that the United States has most impressive military and political power, as I have prayed many times, the Lord impressed me that His victory in Iraq will be accomplished when enough Christians want it enough to humbly set aside our American past-times and fervently, obediently pray.  In no way am I advocating passivism because I agree with the opinion that it comes out of Humanism.  However, while our military men and women are on the front, we should be fighting the battle with as much intensity--on our knees!  Eph 6:12, Daniel 10, II Cor 10:3-5. Romans 8:26  These are some of the references from whence I have learned these truthes.  I'll close with this, and again I believe this is God's teaching about His truth.  As mighty and impressive as our country's military is, the key that brings victory is praying the WORDS of God.  (Lt Cash testified about 2003 Iraq, and others in the pages of history have testified about WWII)  Yes, victory in Iraq will be won by the word of God, "not by might, not by power, but by My Spirit," says the Lord.

"Faith without works is dead."  James 2:26  We need military presence against terrorism, but in greater measure, we need prayer.

Thank you for allowing me to share with you.  I hope you write back.

selahjoy*

SelahJoy,

While I agree wholeheartedly with your overall post (how can one disagree with the word of God?), I must disagree with a certain point.

In no way can anyone equate the "body count" in Iraq with that of Viet Nam. While even one death of any of our Troops is an unacceptable number it is in no way comparible to Viet Nam (I was there also). Election day in Iraq was defintely unusual but can be accounted for. For one thing our Troops were ordered to be in a low profile that day, almost a complete stand down, for political reasons. There was no forward movement of troops that day. They were pretty much stationary. It is during forward movement that most casualties are encountered. Any time there is war there will be unfortunate casualties.

SelahJoy,

One more point. If you check in the prayer requests you will see requests for prayers for our Troops and the Iraqi people.

Pastor,

As you probably can tell, I know nothing about military strategy.  I only mentioned that because I hoped to gain some understanding.  So thanks for explaining.

I do want to clarify my statement about Viet Nam though.  Of course you are right that the body count is no where near the same now as it was then.  My concern is that SOMETHING needs to change before the Iraqi casualites do near Viet Nam counts.  In my mind, I simply think of this as prevention measures.  With your background, I'm sure you see an end in sight.  At least I hope you do!  I think this is a classic example of a civilian hoping and trusting in our military.  I thank God that we live in America.  

Perhaps that topic can be put to rest.  However, my overall concern for the war is that while the military does its part, Christians are called by God to pray.  I thank God for the body of Christ, unitied in one Lord.

selahjoy*

SelahJoy,

I do see an end to our troops being in Iraq. It is not one that a certain date or time can be placed on. At the very most a minimal amount of our Troops may be kept there for a while as a peace keeping mission just as they are in many different countries at the present time.

There are many things in the works right now to protect our Troops and to lessen their casualties. These sort of things take time and money which some people are not willing to relinquish, this has become a battle in itself (political battles).

There are many good Christians praying for this situation and working throughout the world in this matter. As time permits I will try to post some of the wonderful things taking place through our Troops.

I for one appreciate your concern and support for our Troops and the good works of God.

Pastor Roger,

There is so much going on inside my thoughts and feelings about the situation in Iraq that I took some time to think about what we had discussed.

I want to read more of the posts before I share more.  However, I am also looking forward to seeing your updates about the good things Americans are doing in Iraq.  (My son has told me lots, and the vets that I work with have too.)

Thank you so much for your prayers for the soldiers and the Iraqi people.  Thanks to everyone who is praying about the situation.  Even though my son is home safe, I have four loved ones still over there.  They, in my mind, represent all the people over there needing the Holy Spirit.  Because the Lord said He would do the impossible not by might, not be strength, but by His Spirit!

Whenever you can, please post the wonderful news the troops are doing.  Thank you.

selahjoy*