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I am trying to get to the truth of the “Christian Holidays” and I have some concerns about Christmas.

Christ was most probably not born on December 25th.

"And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night." Luke 2:8.

Did the shepherds kept sheep outside in the winter? The best information I can find says sheep were brought in under cover before mid-October to protect them from the cold rainy season that would follow.

What did Jesus Christ say about the purpose for his birth? Why did He, as God, choose to "dwell among us?" In the
Gospel of John, Jesus is quoted as saying,

"For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth" (John 18:37).  

Most sources I have checked state Christmas is not the Messiah’s birthday at all!
And this holiday, important as it seems to so many, is of pagan— Babylonian—origin!
But does that make any difference?
Isn’t it all right to go ahead and observe it anyway?
Isn’t the "Christmas spirit" a good and splendid thing, regardless of how it got started?
Isn’t it okay if you are worshipping the Savior in your heart?

Any good encyclopedia will verify the fact that Christmas came out of paganism.
Encyclopedia Britannica has this: "Christmas (i.e., the Mass of Christ). Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the church. It was not instituted by Christ or the apostles, or by Bible authority—it was picked up afterward from paganism."

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, vol. 1, page 24:
"December 25th, celebrated as Christmas only since the fourth century AD was chosen by early Christian leaders for both practical and symbolic reasons. In the pagan Roman Empire it had been the date of the beginning of the year’s most popular feast, the Saturnalia, a time of wild holiday abandon. It was also astrologically significant, occurring as the winter sun began to move back toward its zenith in the summer heavens. It was the day, in other words, when all could see that the cycle of the seasons would continue and that life would begin again after the symbolic and literal death of winter."

Gift giving was a large part of the celebrations surrounding the Roman Saturnalia, another festival that had influence on the development of Christmas during the fourth century. It also revolved around the first day of winter and the "return of the sun" and was the merriest feast of the year for the Romans. As part of the revelry, slaves and masters switched places to act out an "upside down" world. All work and business were stopped during Saturnalia and moral restrictions were cast off producing a carnival-like atmosphere.

 “The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it that its works are evil.” John 7:7

The world that hates Christ and His blood atonement for sin makes more fuss about Christmas than any other holiday.   If December 25th were really the birthday of Jesus, would the world have anything to do with it?

You observe days and months and seasons and years. I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain. Galatians 4:10-11

"For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth" (John 18:37).

What would Jesus say about being honored with a holiday that endorses so many untruths?

There is actually a lot more I could put here but this has gotten long enough for now.  Please understand I am not trying to start a war but simply get to the truth of why we celebrate things that seem good on the surface but have little or no truth behind them.

Thanks for your help,
Norm

Hi NRoof,

You Quoted:

 Christ was most probably not born on December 25th

I (Michael) Quoted:

 Mithra was born on the 25th of December...which was taken over by the Christians in 4 .A.D.

There is No evidence used Dec 25th as the birthday of Christ in 4 A.D.! In fact, almost all scholars agree that this date was adopted centuries later. To be more specific Joseph Cambell notes that the date was adopted in 354 AD. Thus, the adoption of this date says Nothing about the influences of Mithraism on the formation of Gospel accounts.

 How was Mithra born?

 Mithra was born by emerging from a rock with a dagger in one hand, a torch in the other hand, Phrygian cap on his head. No mention of a "virgin birth".


 Sulfurdolphin (Michael) Quotes:

 When was The Messiah Born? Succoth (Tishri 15 October)
 Also Succoth is known as The Feast Of Tabernacles.
 The Messiah was born in the Biblical Year 4000.

When they arrived in Beit-Lechem, the inn was full of festival goers and taxpayers, and there was no room for them. {However, because it was Succot,} they were content to stay in a temporary shelter {that had been made especially for Succot, as the scripture commands. On the first day of Succot, which is a Shabbat rest,} the time came for Miryam to give birth, and she gave birth to her firstborn son. She then wrapped him in work towels and laid him in a food
storage bin that was placed there for temporary provisions.

http://www.messianic.com/yeshua/chap2.htm#BIRTHYESHUA

http://www.messianic.com/articles/

Michael

Hope this you out NRoof





 

I do not celebrate christmas, I celebrate Jesus Christ (Yeshua)  birth. Even though Christ was born in about, the third week of October, from my studies.

This is what I have done in the past as well.  We have even made a birthday cake for Jesus as a way to instruct my children.  I'm not sure why this is bothering me as much as it is, but it is.
I feel as though I am lying to my children and others when I profess we are celebrating the birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus.  I also feel I am being lied to when the same is professed at Church.

My birthday is in October.  If I were to celebrate it in December and pass it off as my birthday I would be lying.

While at Church last week the pastor started talking about Christmas and the significance of the upcoming holiday and I literally felt a heaviness on my heart.  This feeling has not gone away and has in fact gotten worse as I have researched the history.

Norm

My family celebrates the birth of Jesus Christ every day of the year.

I think that most christians celebrate christmas because they believe it is honoring God in some way - unforunately, history repeats itself.  It seems that people will continue "to do what is right in their own eyes", when God has a different idea . . .
They miss what He wants, because they are inward focussed.  

Running the race is not about holidays and celebrations, even if they are in Jesus Name - it is about running, casting off the hinderances that weigh us down keeping our eyes on Him, Who is the goal.  We are instructed to worship in Spirit and in Truth, not under a tree piled high with gifts.

Please do not misunderstand.  Christmas is a time when much good is done, perhaps because it causes those emotional altruistic juices to flow.  And God will use what He will to get His work done.  But never, does He instruct us to celebrate Christmas or any other holiday, nor does He condone them.  His Grace and love has always covered a multitude of sins and always will.

Shalom, Nana

I have a BIG tree, and I have a lot of lights on the outside of my house. We will eat a lot of good food (LARGE HAM) and we will spend a lot of money on presents.

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE :)

In the Image of Christ
Colossians 3:8-11

“Christ-mass”

     “Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus  saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.  For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.”     Jeremiah 10:1-4


        It may come as a surprise to many that the origin of Christmas actually predates the birth of Jesus Christ by hundreds of years.  Perhaps it comes as an even greater surprise that the origin of Christmas is rooted in heathen religions and beliefs, and not the Word of God.  This is easily verified with just a little research, research that amazingly few are willing to do. Personally I have examined many encyclopedias, newspaper articles, the internet, and pagan as well as Christian sources.  All the resources that I have studied trace the origin of Christmas back to heathen religions and beliefs well before the birth of the Lord Jesus Christ.

        Did you realize that no one knows on what day the Lord Jesus was born.  You can search the Bible from cover to cover and you will not find from its pages what day the Lord Jesus was born.  In fact the Bible tells us that the shepherds were keeping watch over their flock by night at the time the Lord Jesus was born indicating mild weather, certainly not the dead of winter (Luke 2:6-8).  It was the Roman Catholic Church in the 4th century A.D. who chose December 25 as the day to celebrate the birth of Christ.  It chose December 25 because it was the time that the heathen were celebrating Natalis Solis Invicti, the birthday of the Unconquerable Sun.  Instead of condemning the idolatrous festivities and practices of the heathen, the Church of Rome absorbed them and “Christianized” them.  Instead of celebrating the birth of the god’s of the heathen’s they now would celebrate the birth of Jesus.  Instead of SUN worship they now would have SON worship.  The Roman Catholic Church called December 25 “Christmas” which means, “the Mass of Christ”. Almost all of the heathens customs and forms of celebrating were retained by the Church and given different meanings (see The Two Babylons, by Hislop).  Thus the Roman Church allowed the heathen to continue their idolatrous ways under the guise of celebrating Christ’s birthday with the Church of Rome’s blessings.

        Our opening text clearly exhorts, “Learn not the way of the heathen”. What is the way of the heathen here? They take a tree from the forest, they deck it with gold and silver, and they fasten so it doesn’t move. Sounds very much like the Christmas tree wouldn’t you agree? It amazes me that people calling themselves  Christians take part in this without any indication from the Scriptures that it was preformed at Christ birth or afterwards. The Gospels, Acts, the Epistles and Revelation give neither example nor teaching on which to found such a celebration. Does no one wonder where, then, such celebrations came from? Why, unbelievers do the same thing with no regard to Christ at all! How can Christians supposedly be worshiping Christ through this, while at the same time unbelievers are celebrating with no reverence to HIM at all? You must ask yourself in the light of our Scripture, who’s right and who’s wrong? After all what does a pine tree have to do with Christ birth?  Nowhere in the Scriptures do we read of God’s people embracing the way of the heathen with God’s blessing. Whenever God’s people adopt the ways of the heathen it eventually brings God’s judgment upon them. In the book of Colossians we read the following warning.

     “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”  Colossians 2:8

        Friends, one of Satan’s greatest tools of deceptions is his ability to transform himself into an angel of light (2 Cor. 11:13-15).  It is by this means that he seeks to deceive the Christian.  Christmas is apparently one of his greatest deceptions ever, since it is so widely accepted and defended, and people seem to be held captive by it in spite of its lack of Biblical support.  This is a strange phenomenon! Surely if Christmas was of God it would easily stand the test of Scripture, but it does not.  With just a little research an unbiased person who is a seeker of truth would clearly see that Christmas is a lie based upon “the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”  This is abundantly clear when one learns that Christmas and almost all of its trimmings predate the birth of Christ by hundreds of years.  We would do well to heed the warning of Colossians 2:8 and BEWARE least we become SPOILED by the vain deceit of Christmas.

        John 4:24 says “God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.”  How can we even pretended to honor and worship God in participating in Christmas when it is based in vain deceit rather than truth?  John 4:24 says that God MUST be worshiped in spirit and TRUTH. There is no room for compromise here, no matter how well meaning or sincere one may be in their participation in Christmas.  Where is the Biblical doctrine of Christmas celebrating? There is none! Christmas fails the test of Scripture.

        Many professing Christians have already been spoiled by the vain deceit of Christmas. This is evidenced by the fact that they refuse to allow God’s Word to judge their participation in the idolatrous practices of Christmas.  On this subject, apparently, the Bible does not matter. It appears that their minds are made up and they don’t want to be confused by the facts. To them Christmas is like a sacred cow, not to be touched or criticized by anyone, even the Lord!  How sad and grieved the Lord must be over this. Not once in the Scriptures do we find the Lord reflecting on HIS birth. Instead we find HIM consistently pointing to the future to the salvation that He would secure for human beings by dying on the cross as the perfect Substitute. No, we don’t find a commandment to remember HIS birth but we do find the commandment to remember HIS death (1Cor.11:24-26).  How much better we would be if we would heed the will of God that we find in the book of Romans.

     “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and  perfect, will of God.”    Romans 12:1-2

         It is God’s will and command that we do not conform to this world.  Christmas is “after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ”, and therefore we should obey the Scriptures and not conform to the world’s customs.  You see, when one participates in Christmas he is doing just the opposite of what God commands in this verse.  Instead of conforming to this world God wants us to be transformed by the renewing of our minds.  This happens as we study the scriptures and learn from them how to live our lives in a way that pleases God.  God wants us to be able to prove what His GOOD and ACCEPTABLE and PERFECT will is.  We should do this so that we can apply God’s will to our lives and live in a way that is more pleasing to Him, because we love Him who first loved us.

        Dear friend my purpose in writing these words is not to cause trouble with you.  I know first hand how controversial this subject is with those that have a strong traditional and emotional attachment to the practices of Christmas, especially those who regard Christmas as an untouchable matter, like a sacred cow.  I write knowing that there are those that want to honor God in all their ways and are not aware of the deceptions of Christmas.  I pray that God will use these words to enlighten them to the dangers of Christmas and move them to a closer walk with God.  Christianity is about following Christ (Luke 9:23), and to do that the Lord said one must “deny self, and take up his cross...” not his Christmas tree!


Also read the articles "Truth" and “Convictions or Conveniences?”for more on Christmas.

Visit our web site for more articles and information at  http://nlbchapel.org

18 More Days :)

In the Image of Christ
Colossians 3:8-11

“Convictions or Conveniences?”

“Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong.” (1 Corinthians 16:13)

        Years ago, a friend and I owned a small business. At the time we had one employee. We all attended the same small gospel assembly. Our employee was just getting started in public preaching. I can remember one of his first sermons, it was on the subject of faith. In his attempt to explain what it meant to walk by faith he used the example of owning life insurance. He explained that having life insurance was not walking in faith and showed a lack of trust in the Lord. He spoke about this topic with great conviction and passion.
        A few weeks later my business partner and I were approached by our insurance agent, who told us of a great deal on life insurance that was being offered on a limited-time-only basis. My partner and I decided to take the offer and purchase the life insurance. We talked about offering this life insurance policy at the company’s expense to our employee, but remembered the message he preached about life insurance just a few weeks earlier. We both thought that he would turn down the offer without a second thought, based upon his publicly known “convictions.”
        However, to our surprise he didn’t even hesitate to take us up on the offer. When we asked him about his publicly known “convictions” against having life insurance, he said that he had done a lot of thinking on the matter lately and had changed his views. How convenient for him to simply change his views at the very time he was being offered “free life insurance!” Apparently, and to his own shame, this man’s convictions were very flexible and subject to change when it suited his own interest.
        Sadly, we often come across men like this whose convictions are really nothing more than conveniences. Under the right pressures or circumstances you will find out that most men really don’t have convictions, and what they passionately claim are strong convictions are nothing more than conveniences. I have heard that in other countries some Christians under the pains of torture and death have been told to renounce the Lord Jesus Christ. Some have even saved their lives by renouncing the Lord Jesus, or so they think!

        “And he said to [them] all, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away? For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and [in his] Father's, and of the holy angels.”   (Luke 9:22-26)

        Yet, many others over the ages have lost their lives under such circumstances, only to find them according to the above Scripture. A man once told me, “you never know what’s in a man until he’s squeezed!” How true that statement is. It’s easy to boldly proclaim one’s “convictions” when they haven’t been put to the test. But, test those same “convictions” by trials of persecution, or by temptations of pleasure and personal gain, and one will quickly find out what one is made of, convictions or conveniences.
        When the apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians saying, “Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong” (1 Cor. 16:13), he basically was telling them to be men of true convictions and to stand firm without wavering in those convictions no matter the persecution or temptation. In those days it was harder to be a man of convictions; one’s faith was constantly being tested by trial, temptation, or both. Christians were being hunted down and persecuted for what they believed. Unlike today, the term “Christian” had true meaning and purpose. If one were to be called Christian in those days it meant that he had forsaken all other so-called gods and the pagan culture associated with them, to follow the one and true God, the Lord Jesus Christ.
        In today’s pluralistic mindset, you can call yourself a Christian and still embrace the pagan gods of old. In many of today’s so-called evangelical churches occult activities run rampant in such things as prayer visualizing techniques, prayer labyrinthian, yoga, 12 step programs, psychology, partaking in pagan holidays such as Halloween, Christmas and Easter, just to name a few. To be involved in these things ignorantly is one thing, but to continue in them after you have received the truth about them is quite another. Paul received the Lord’s mercy for his great sin of persecuting the church because he did it in ignorance (1 Tim. 1:12-17). Can you imagine what would have happened to Paul had he continued persecuting the church after the Lord Jesus revealed to him that he was really persecuting the very God he claimed to serve?
        Today’s church is suffering greatly from a lack of men of true conviction who are ready to suffer for what they believe, men who are true men, men who are sound in the faith. Today’s church is designed to meet one’s comfort level rather than bring spiritual health (“sound doctrine” means literally “healthy doctrine”). The emphasis is on making people feel comfortable, therefore you dare not preach to them the whole counsel of God, but only the things that will make them feel good about themselves. Preaching against sin and repentance is shelved because they make one feel uncomfortable and folks will likely leave for a more comfortable environment that will tolerate their laxity and sin, or worse yet, partake in it. I was shocked driving home from work one October day when I saw a sign in a church parking lot saying, “Kids come here tonight for your Halloween treats.” Halloween treats!  What are so-called Christians doing partaking in pagan holidays? Sadly, many churches partake of this wicked holiday to a much greater degree by holding their own haunted houses and Halloween parties. One must ask whose side these so-called Christians are on anyway? With their mouth they profess the Lord, but in their activities they deny Him (Titus 1:16)
        What blasphemy it is for those claiming to be Christians to partake in the celebrations and customs that belong to the devil. Where are the “true men of conviction” in the church today? Why are they not opposing such wickedness? Do they think that God has said in vain, “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them]” (Eph. 5:11) or that He really didn’t mean it in regards to Halloween, or any of the other holidays that honor Satan, such as Christmas and Easter? I can hear the excuses of those without true convictions already saying, “We partake of these holidays for the children”, "everybody else is doing it,” “I have Christian liberty to partake in these events,” “it doesn’t mean the same things to me as it does the pagans,” “my family won’t understand if I take a stand against these things,” “my wife feels strongly about celebrating Christmas, it’s a big tradition in her family,” and you can go on and on. But God is not looking for excuses; He’s looking for men who will be men and that will stand firm upon His Word without compromise, not those without convictions that find it convenient for their own personal gain to ignore and disobey His Word.
        Dear friend, is your spiritual life one of strong convictions, or of weak compromise and conveniences? It takes a real man or woman to stand against the currents of this world. It’s much easier to go with the flow of this world and do as the world does than it is to stand against it. If you chose to be a man or woman of conviction, God says you will suffer persecution (2 Tim. 3:12). Unfortunately, most of the persecution will come from those that claim to be Christians who are so worldly that they even make the pagans blush.

        “And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will  serve  the LORD.” (Josh 24:15)

Visit our web site for more articles and information at  http://nlbchapel.org

Also see "THE CHRISTMAS JESUS CAME TO MY HOUSE" at  http://www.nlbchapel.org/Christmashome.htm

Pilgrim, that was a challenging and moving article.. " the Christmas Jesus came to my house". It has made me think a lot more about where my priorities lie, do they lie with pleasing my unsaved family, with their ungodly traditions, or with my Lord and Saviour. Thanks for posting this.

Pilgrim, thanks for that article "THE CHRISTMAS JESUS CAME TO MY HOUSE".    

No more CHRIST-mas, Easter, Halloween, etc, etc. I guess I will join the Jehovah's Witnesses Watchtower Society this saturday. :)

Hi Brother Love,

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. You got me wondering why you want to trade one false religion for a different one? God bless.

Pilgrim

Thats NOT nice Bro :D

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I love Christmas, and I think that God love to see us enjoy ourselves.  I know what the true meaning is and the traditions we pass to our children are priceless.  I think that giving gifts is a great way to express our faith.  I wonder how many come to Jesus during this time of the year even if it just one, praise God!   People are more likely to do good for others as well.  Some get so negative about things, Just as a holiday is turned into something bad we can turn it around and make it good.
spud :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D

I think Christmas is a good opportunity to witness, and people do seem more open to the gospel, AND praise God for all people that make a commitment at that time of year AND stick to it afterwards and become disciples. Despite all these good things, God has been challenging me regarding the excess of western living and the things we do that are just traditions of men, and don't actually give Christ any glory at all. As Christians who claim that Christmas should be centered on Jesus, why do we fill our houses and talk of Christmas with material things, and pagan symbolism. I have no problem with people who want to have a traditional Christmas, my own unsaved family do it. But it is something that may be good to prayerfully consider, when coming to God and seeking ways to glorify Jesus.

TRUTH

        Have you ever wondered how important truth is to the Christian? The Scriptures have much to say about truth. By doing a word study on truth one will see that God places a high value on truth. By doing a word search on truth my Bible program listed 224 verses alone. Here are some of the things we learn about truth as we study the Scriptures.

1. The Lord Jesus is truth:

        “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth , and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”  John 14:6

2. The Holy Spirit is truth and is called the Spirit of Truth:

        “This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.”  1 John 5:6

        “[Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you and shall be in you.”  John 14:17

3. God’s Word is truth:

        “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.”   John 17:17

4. God seeks those that will worship Him in spirit and truth. Jesus said that God MUST be worshiped in spirit and truth:

        “But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.”  John 4:23-24

5.  Our sanctification is through truth (verse above John 17:17):

        “And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the  truth.”  John 17:19

6. God’s will is for believers to walk in the truth and to speak truth one to another:

        “But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ:”  Eph. 4:15

        “Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.”  Eph. 4:25

        “The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth; For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever. Grace be with you, mercy, [and] peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father.”  2 John 1:1-4

7. True Christian Love rejoices in the truth:

        “Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;”  1 Cor. 13:6

8. The Lord’s super is to be kept in truth:

        “Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth.”  1 Cor. 5:8

        The above verses are only a small portion of what God’s Word has to say concerning truth, yet with just this small sample one can easily see how important truth is to God. Truly God places a high value on truth and so should we if we claim to be His children.
        On the other hand you have Satan and his followers who despise truth and love lying. Below is one of the conversations that the Lord Jesus had with the followers of Satan:

        “Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not.”  John 8:44-45

        One might wonder who these wicked children of the devil were? Surly, they must have been the very scum of the earth, those who practiced every vice and evil imaginable to man. Surly, Jesus must of been speaking to those who were like Hitler and Stalin, Jeffery Dahmer and Ted Bundy, Anton Szandor La Vey and Marlin Manson etc. Although people like these are excellent candidates, they are not the type of people the Lord Jesus was speaking to. Believe it or not, Jesus was speaking to the religious leaders of His day. Those who were suppose to be defenders and champions of the truth. Those who were charged with teaching the truth to the children of Israel. The very ones who should have been the first to recognize that Jesus was the Christ their long awaited Messiah. Yet according to Jesus these religious leaders were Satan’s children.
        Stop and think about this for a minute. Satan’s most successful attacks against Jesus came from the religious leaders of His day. From those who held sway over the masses by their religious lies and religious rituals who all the time thought that they were serving the true God of Israel. Those who persuaded Pilot to kill the Lord Jesus Christ. If Satan was so effective in infiltrating Israel’s religious leadership in those days do you think that maybe he might be doing the same with the church today? God’s Word says that he is:

        “For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.”   2 Cor. 11:13-15

        Some good questions to ask yourselves are, who are these people today? How can I recognize them? What do they teach? How can I protect myself from their deceptive lies? How do I stand against them seeing that they are in places of leadership? All good questions that need to be answered.
        The Lord Jesus recognized them because they had much in common with their true spiritual father, Satan! Satan is the father of lies, therefore his children will be those who promote lies, not just any lie but religious lies. Lies about salvation, lies about God, lies about the Lord Jesus, lies about religion, lies on how to worship and please God. The lies that Satan uses to deceive Christians are sugar coated with the truth, lies that are pleasant to the taste and appealing to human reasoning. Satan knows that in order to get Christians off the path of righteousness he must be clever in his lies and make them appear as good and righteous, if he has to sprinkle his lies with truth so that Christians will eat of his fruit he will do it. Satan will use as much truth as necessary just so long as he can get Christians to eat his spiritual poison. He knows it is the poison in his mix that really counts and he doesn’t care how much healthy spiritual food one has to eat just as long as they eat the poison with it. We need to remember that Satan is not out to help us in our walk with God, but to kill, steal and destroy.
        Makers of rat poison do the same. They take food that appeals to the taste of rats, food that under different circumstances would make rats healthy and strong. They take this food and lace it with a little bit of poison, not much, just enough to kill the rats who eat of it. The makers of rat poison use the healthy good tasting food to lure rats into eating the poison that is laced in it. It’s a very clever technique that gets very good results.
Continued

Continued

        Satan gets very good results with this technique also. One of the best religious lies that Satan and his helpers use today is Christmas. Many will be shocked at this statement, saying “Christmas! Dear brother, have you gone mad!” No! I haven’t gone mad. If Christmas is of God it surly would past the test of truth which it does not. Christmas involves worship and Jesus said that God MUST be worshiped in spirit and TRUTH. Let’s take a close look at Christmas and see if it can hold up to the test of truth.
        The term “Christmas” itself is an unholy mixture and an abomination before God when used in reference to the real Lord Jesus Christ. Here we plainly see Satan’s cleverness, he takes the term “Christ” which is holy and good and combines it with the term “mass” which is an unholy religious lie. Satan mixes the holy with the unholy knowing that  it will be harder for the non-discerning Christian to reject. The Catholic mass is a denial of the Scriptures. The Word of God teaches that the Lord Jesus Christ suffered one time for sins and then sat down at the right hand of God.

        “For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.”  Heb.9:24-26

        “By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all]. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”  Heb. 10:10-14

        The Catholic Church teaches that the mass is a continuation of Christ sacrifice for sins. They claim that the wafer is turned into the literal body of the Lord Jesus and that the wine is literally turned into the blood of Christ Jesus. They call this ritual “Transubstantiation”.  Therefore according to Catholic doctrine The Lord Jesus Christ is offered as a sacrifice over and over every time mass is held. God’s Word is crystal clear in that Jesus suffered only one time in history for the sins of the world. Jesus Himself cried out while on the cross “It is finished”, yet the Catholic Church claims that it is not finished and that the Lord’s sacrifice continues with each and every mass.
        The true Christ and the mass are opposed to each other. Christ is truth, the mass, a religious lie, they can't be mixed. Christ affirms the Scriptures and the mass denies them. If Christians who use the term "Merry Christmas" knew what they were really saying I doubt they would continue using the term. After all what is merry about the mass of Christ, it is a religious lie of the worst kind? It is a damnable heresy. What a shameful contradiction it is for true believers to wish someone a "Merry Christmas" when in truth the mass is responsible for sending souls to hell. What's so "Merry" about that? I can understand Satan wishing someone a "Merry Christmas", but I can't understand Christians doing the same! I wonder how many souls are in hell right now, wailing and gnashing their teeth, because they believed the lie of the Catholic mass instead of the true gospel of salvation? When Christmas is used in reference to the Lord Jesus it is a lying contradiction in and of itself? I wonder how many Christians realize that they are using God's name in vain and profaning what is holy by using the term “Christmas in such a way?

        God commands us to put away lying and to speak truth one to another (Eph. 4:25) How can one wish someone a “Merry Christmas” without violating this clear command of God? The christ of the mass is a false christ, the gospel of the mass is a false gospel and God commands us to put these lies away and speak truth one to another. I have heard the excuse “well that’s not what Christmas means to me, and when I wish someone a “Merry Christmas” I don’t mean the mass of Christ”. Dear friend, with all due respect, it doesn’t matter what it means to you, it matters what its true meaning is. We do not have the right to change the definitions of words and use them any way we like. Words are specific in there meanings and they have to be in order to properly communicate to others. How about your Catholic friends? When you wish them a “Merry Christmas” are they going to know what you mean or are they going to be delighted that you are partaking in their religious lie? If you wish someone like me a “Merry Christmas” most likely you will hear in return that I do not partake of Catholic lies.     Another lie so often heard at Christmas is “He’s the reason for the season”. It’s a catchy phrase used by those that want to put Christ back into Christmas. The problem these people have is that the true Christ was never in Christmas to begin with. The christ that is in Christmas was never the true Christ but the false christ of the Roman Catholic Church. The true “reason for the season” is the Catholic Church not the Lord Jesus. The Roman Catholic Church is “the reason for the season”. They are the ones who invented Christmas by stealing it from the pagans and they are the ones who gave it to the professing church. Just about any encyclopedia will bare this out. Even those that defend Christmas as a Christian holiday admit this much.

John 4:19 “The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.  20  Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.  21  Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.  22  Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.  23  But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.  24  God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.”

Here is a case were the Lord Jesus gently rebukes a Samaritan woman over worship according to mans corrupt ways. Barnes notes on the New Testament has this to say about the above passage.

“22. (Ye worship ye know not what.) This probably refers to the comparative ignorance and corruption of the Samaritan worship. Though they received the five books of Moses, yet they rejected the prophets, and of course all that the prophets had said respecting the true God. Originally, also, they had joined the worship of idols to that of the true God. See 2 Kings xvii 26-34. They had moreover, no authority for building their temple and conducting public worship by sacrifices there. On all these accounts they were acting in an unauthorized manner. They were not worshiping the true God, nor offering the worship which He had commanded or would approve.

    I find some amazing similarities between this and Christmass. Most who partake in Christmass are like the woman of Samaria whom Jesus said “Ye worship ye know not what”. Religious man took a pagan holiday that was in existence hundreds of years before Christ and adopted if for their own. They covered this pagan holiday with a veneer of Christianity and tried to force the true Christ into it by renaming pagan gods with the true God. Just like the Samaritans who had no authority to create their own form of worship, religious man does the same with Christmass. How can one even pretend to offer God true worship after the manner and traditions the pagans invented to worship their gods?  “Originally, also, they had joined the worship of idols to that of the true God.” This is the very same abomination that takes place in Christmass. Jesus told the woman that God is Spirit and that He must be worshiped in Spirit and truth. Christmass fails the test of truth from its very foundation on up. One can claim they are worshiping God all they want with their Christmass traditions but if it is not according to truth God will not accept it.

Pilgrim

 There is biblical evidence which points to Jesus being conceived on December 25, and born around Sept, or Oct.

Bronzesnake

17 more days until CHRIST-mas :)

Only 17 more days until the birthday of the angle of light (2 Cor. 11:140).

Pilgrim

We will have a large Ham, we bought a lot of gifts, we will have a GRRRRREAT time. Merry CHRIST-mas Pilgrim. ;D

Greetings brother Love. I am sure the angle of light will be pleased and very proud of you. Would you explain what is so merry about the mass which is a religious lie of the worst kind? God bless.

Pilgrim

16 MORE DAYS PILGRIM - MERRY CHRISTMAS :)

    "It is a lamentable fact that Babylon's principles and practices are rapidly but surely pervading the churches that escaped from Rome at the time of the Reformation. We may see evidences of it in the wide use of high-sounding ecclesiastical titles, once unknown in the reformed churches, in the revival of holy days and church feasts such as Lent, Good Friday, Easter, and Christ's Mass, or, as it is generally written, Christmas. ... some of these festivals ... when they are turned into church festivals, they certainly come under the condemnation of Galatians 4:9-11, where the Holy Spirit warns against the observance of days and months and times and seasons. All of them, and many more that might be added, are Babylonish in their origin, and were at one time linked with the Ashtoreth and Tammuz mystery-worship. It is through Rome that they have come down to us; and we do well to remember that Babylon is a mother, with daughters who are likely to partake of their mother's characteristics ..."

Dr. H.A. Ironside's Lectures on the Book of Revelation (1920: p. 301):

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    "We have no superstitious regard for times and seasons. Certainly we do not believe in the present ecclesiastical arrangement called Christmas: first, because we do not believe in the mass at all, but abhor it, whether it be said or sung in Latin or in English; and secondly, because we find no Scriptural warrant whatever for observing any day as the birthday of the Saviour; and consequently, its observance is a superstition, because [it's] not of divine authority. Superstition has fixed most positively the day of our Saviour's birth, although there is no possibility of discovering when it occurred. ...

    "It was not till the middle of the third century that any part of the church celebrated the nativity of our Lord; and it was not till very long after the Western church had set the example, that the Eastern adopted it. Because the day is not known, therefore superstition has fixed it; ... Where is the method in the madness of the superstitious? Probably the fact is that the holy days were arranged to fit in with the heathen festivals. ... We venture to assert that if there be any day in the year of which we may be pretty sure that it was not the day on which the Saviour was born, it is the twenty-fifth of December. ... regarding not the day, let us, nevertheless, give God thanks for the gift of His dear Son."

Charles Haddon Spurgeon, delivered in a Lord's Day sermon on December 24, 1871:

Dr. H.A. Ironside's Lectures on the Book of Revelation (1920: p. 301):

Luk 2:7  And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
Luk 2:8  And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
Luk 2:9  And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
Luk 2:10  And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
Luk 2:11  For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
Luk 2:12  And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
Luk 2:13  And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
Luk 2:14  Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

Certainly seems to have been a celebration of great magnitude in heaven!

Grace and Peace!

Hello 2nd Timothy,

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Do you think they did this on the 25 of December when the world was celebrating the birth of their sun god? Do you think that they learned the ways of the pagans and cut a tree down and fastened it so that it would not move and decorate it with gold and silver in honor of Jesus birth?

Jer 10:1 “Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: 2  Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3  For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4  They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.”

Do you think they stood under a mistletoe kissing one another to celebrate the birth of Christ? Do you think they did this every year after Jesus was born, or do you think it was a one time event? Do you think they created their own forms of worship by coping the pagans rituals and renaming them with Biblical names and concepts and then offering warmed over pagan worship to God? God bless.

Pilgrim

http://www.nlbchapel.org/xmas.htm

Rom 14:14  I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

There is nothing unclean of itself....   If you consider a Christmas tree or even Christmas as a whole as unclean then it is unclean to you. Do not partake in it.

Rom 14:19  Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20  For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.


A tree does not destroy the work of God. It is the evil purpose in man's heart.

What is the purpose in your heart?
Why are you celebrating?
Is it for selfish worldly reasons?
Is it simply for the sake of tradition?
Do you do these things out of love for Jesus and for your brothers, sisters, neighbors, family?
Does it really matter if there is a tree and tinsel, if there is what is the purpose you place in them?


Do we tell our brothers that something they are doing is wrong so that we can esteem ourselves more righteous or that we have a better understanding of Gods Word?

Is it so that we can put a stumblingblock in their way?

Is it so that we can say we took the thorn out of their eye?

What is in your heart?

 Jos 24:15 ............but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Psa 69:30  I will praise the name of God with a song, and will magnify him with thanksgiving.
Psa 69:31  This also shall please the LORD better than an ox or bullock that hath horns and hoofs.
Psa 69:32  The humble shall see this, and be glad: and your heart shall live that seek God.
Psa 69:33  For the LORD heareth the poor, and despiseth not his prisoners.
Psa 69:34  Let the heaven and earth praise him, the seas, and every thing that moveth therein.


Psa 147:1  Praise ye the LORD: for it is good to sing praises unto our God; for it is pleasant; and praise is comely.

........ and daily shall He be praised!

for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4  They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.”


1Co 8:1  Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
1Co 8:2  And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
1Co 8:3  But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
1Co 8:4  As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that [there is] none other God but one.
1Co 8:5  For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6  But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
1Co 8:7  Howbeit [there is] not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat [it] as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
1Co 8:8  But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
1Co 8:9  But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
1Co 8:10  For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
1Co 8:11  And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
1Co 8:12  But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
1Co 8:13  Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.


So brother, with the understanding that my putting up a Christmas tree will  not cause anyone to fall away from Christ,  I will not let pine needles prick my conscience, because a Christmas tree is nothing to me.

God bless

Hello Mr. Roger,

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. You keep bringing Roman 14 up to justify pagan celebrations. Have you read the article on Romans 14 and Christmass that I linked to earlier? You can read the article at this address: http://members.aol.com/gregscv/garnett2.htm

If we continue with your reasoning one could claim that they can practice fornication because to them nothing is unclean in it. They can claim that it is just two people celebrating the gift of sex. They can use your reasoning that nothing is unclean of itself and you could not say a word against it without making yourself out to be a hypocrite. They could say if it is unclean to you then don’t practice it, but don’t judge us who see nothing wrong with sharing love.


Where does God give you the right to create your own worship? Where does He say it is okay to join the world that hates Him in celebrating the birth of a god? If God said not to copy the worship of the pagans then don't do it. It is a matter of sin, not of Christian liberty.


No we tell them that what they are doing is wrong so that they may repent and serve God rather than the evil one. We tell them because it is showing Christian love to lead them away from the things of darkness to the truth of God.


To serve God and help my brothers and sister to know the truth. To help them from being trapped in the snares of Satan.


How can you serve the Lord by going against His commands to not learn the way of the pagans? How can you serve the Lord by offering Him warmed over pagan worship dress with a veneer of Christianity?

Deu 12:29  "When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land; 30  Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31  Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. 32  What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it."

God bless
Pilgrim

Pilgrim,

Seeing as this is not the debate thread I do not wish to debate over this. So I will say one more thing and I will drop it here.

As with most people things are taken from the Bible to mean what they perceive in it, to serve their purposes. Just as you have taken my words for your agenda. I am NOT abdicating the use of Christmas trees or of any of the traditional Christmas celebrations. I see no purpose in using such things myself.

I am saying that it is what you do with these things and with your heart that make them a sin or not. Just as the example that you gave on sex. Sex in itself is not a sin until a person practices it in a sinful manner or a sinful thought in their hearts. This is exactly what Romans 14:14 is telling us. Nothing is unclean of itself, it is what man does with it that makes it a sin.

The questions I gave were rhetorical. Thought provoking in nature. Meant for Christians to search their hearts and the scriptures for the truth and for the reasons that they do anything.

1Co 10:31  Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
1Co 10:32  Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
1Co 10:33  Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

Pilgrim you should see the REALLY, REALLY "BIG" CHRIST-mas Tree we have. ONLY 16 more Days.

Merry CHRIST-mas Pilgrim ;D

Hello Mr. Roger,

You rightly discern fornication. Sex is not wrong in and of itself, it is sex outside of marriage that is sin.

Heb 13:4 “Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.”

Now you just need to apply the same principles to worship. Worship of God is correct when done according to the will of God, but worship outside the will of God is spiritual fornication which is sin.

Jesus said that God is spirit and that He must be worshiped in Spirit and truth. Spirit and truth are the conditions God demands for true worship, if one’s worship does not meet this criteria then God will not accept it and it is sin. The term “christmas” itself is a lie. The christ of the mass is a false christ. To wish someone a “merry christmas” is using God’s name in vain. God commands us to speak to one another in truth and not to lie to one another. This cannot be done by embracing the false christ of the mass.

Pilgrim

To all who have responded I pray that our Lord and savior Jesus will bless each and every one of you.

I would fist like to apologize to all of you.  I was simply looking for some understanding to something I believe the Lord has placed on my heart.  I am relatively new in my walk with the Lord and sometimes have difficulty discerning whether what I think and feel are from the Lord or from me.  This is what prompts me to seek the truth in Gods word and why I created this topic.  My original post simply stated some of the things I found out and posed some questions I have about the topic.  It was never my intention to cause a division.

That being said I am amazed at the lack of love and understanding from a group of Christians.  Shortly after creating this post I was saddened by some of the responses.  So much so I deleted my account with this forum.  For some reason I was drawn back and saw the posts by Pilgrim.  

I thank Pilgrim for his conviction and willingness to share what is an unpopular view.  The posts from Brother Love once again saddened me.  It appeared to me all he was interested was causing dissention and did little to add to the topic.  I don’t believe this was the intention from Brother Love but that is how I took it.  

I then saw posts from 2nd Timothy, AJ and Pastor Roger.  I would like to thank all of you for your thoughtful responses and references to relevant verses from the word of God in support of celebrating Christmas.  

I was however saddened that the responses to Pilgrim appeared to attack instead of just presenting your views.  I can understand as some of Pilgrims convictions and statements may come across as somewhat harsh and in your face.  I don’t believe Pilgrim or anyone else intended to offend but that is the way I believe it came across.  I believe the questions Pilgrim posed were simply raised to provoke thought and get people to search for the truth themselves.  At this point both sides have become defensive of there position and I personally see very little of God’s love in this.  

There is some good that has come out of this for me though.  I now know I must seek these answers directly from God and not man.  I will continue to pray and ask God for his wisdom in this matter.

This post is not meant to offend or criticize any one individual or belief.  If I have done that I apologize as that was not my intention.

Again I thank all of you and pray the Lord will bless each and every one of you.

Love your God with all your heart
Love your neighbor as yourself.

Norm

Moderators

I am the originator of this topic and I request you close it as I can see no further good that can come of it.  Thank you.

GOOOOODNITEGERTY!!![/b]  Would you listen to yourselves?  Is this not what Paul spoke about when he said...


You're free in Christ!  If you want to celebrate His birth on Christmas, go ahead!  If you want to celebrate Mishiwakawamimama or whoever, then you got a problem.  Manohman.  Some people could find a rat turd in Aunt Bee's blackberry cobbler...

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!![/b]

Request granted :'(

Moderator

Brothers and Sisters,

It does appear this this topic has hurt some feelings and caused needless division.

The LORD I serve is Almighty God, and all days belong to HIM, including Christmas. I will celebrate Christmas and New Year's Day by having a wonderful time in the LORD with Christian friends and family, both at home and at church.


Love In Christ,
Tom

Colossians 1:12-14  Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: