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Do you believe that a person must be water baptized to be saved? If so, why?

God bless,
bluelake

Please excuse the spelling error. :P

bluelake

NO!!! water baptism DOES NOT save a person. However, I recommend it because it is a sign of obedience to one of the two ordincances given by Christ to the Church. and also because we're commaned to...lol. But no, water baptism is a outward sign of an inward change. (Spoken like a true baptist myself...lol) Anyway...check these verses out here in a second. We all know John the Baptist of course baptized people in the Jordan river. and in the same manner He baptized Jesus also, by lowering Him into water. This is one of the first forshadowances in Scripture that show Christ's death, burial and resurrection. and that is what water baptism does. It shows the death of our sin, the burial of our old body, and our resurrection as a new creation in Christ Jesus. It does not save us, but it shows the other brethren that we are obediant to God's Word and His commandments when we are baptized. John himself said that he baptized with water, but that there was one among them that they would not know. We see that Jesus was baptized and when He came UP from the water, (the word used signifying that He was coming from below the water), the heavens opened for Him as Matthew 3:13-17 put it. I support water baptism because it is an ordinance given to the church for rememberance, just like the Last Supper that we celebrate in rememberance of the Lord's last hours, but in no way are they essential for Salvation. Water baptism is simply an outward sign of an inward change. I have a site i want to share if it's ok...they go into deeper detail than I can at the moment. It is a video, but i encourage you to watch it...their theology is top-notch and they exhaustively explain in detail everything about re-generation. I hope what I've said makes sense and I hope what you will listen to and watch will make more sense.. God Bless!

In His Service,
Joshua

http://www.crosstv.com
 look for How God converts the Human Soul series!

bluelake:
The rite of water baptism is not a requirement for salvation. In fact, there is no need for it in this dispensation of grace.

In Ephesians 4:5 we learn that there is "One Lord, one faith, one baptism." That baptism is the Spirit baptism of 1 Corinthians 12:13 "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, (dry cleaned) whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink one Spirit."

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

It is not for salvation we get water baptisted .But because we obey our LORd .If you can not obey for a reason ?That is different .But we should as soon as we can .Because HE told us too .Also it shows we are dead with HIm .This is showing we agree with HIM . If you will not obey the little things ?How can HE trust you will big things ?How can hE call you 3:00 in the morning to get up and help someone you do not know .How will you go ? HE is our example ?HE did it .WE MUST .Obeying is the key with GOD .It is the biggest thing .He expects us to obey .Because every thing is FOR US .You can look at GOD as a dad .Who only wants GOOD for HIS .Little childern ,IN HIS eyes ,We are little small kids .We must be taught everything .Just as a baby must learn to walk and talk .WE are the same .Wer start on the milk then grow to eating the meat .We can all be mighty in the LORD or stay babys .But being as JESUS CHRIST is better .

well said gary! It's a sign of obedience to our Lord! ANywho i'm supposed to be doing a research project on the Protestant reformation so i'll get back to it. God Bless

Joshua

In the Image of Christ
Colossians 3:8-11

“Another Gospel?”

    “I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [ man ] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”        Galatians 1:6-9

        If the apostle Paul marveled at what he witnessed in the Galatian church two thousand years ago, what do you think his response would be if he examined the professing church today? Paul was amazed that the Galatians fell for a counterfeit gospel so quickly after receiving the true gospel. In fact, he openly doubted that they were truly saved because of the false gospel they now embraced (Gal. 4:11, 20). This tragic situation was so severe that the apostle Paul pronounced a curse on anyone teaching a false gospel, whether man or an angel from heaven.
        Someone apparently came to the Galatians after they received the true gospel, and began to teach them that besides believing, they also needed to be circumcised and keep the Mosaic law in order to be saved, thus perverting the true gospel. Today we have many different so-called “Christian” denominations that in one way or another do the same.
        One example of such teaching is the Belgic Confession, Article 34 on baptism. According to the Psalter Hymnal used by the Christian Reformed Church, the Belgic Confession is its oldest doctrinal standard. The Psalter Hymnal also states:

        “The text, not the contents, was revised again at the Synod of Dort in 1618-19 and adopted as one of the doctrinal standards to which all officebearers in the Reformed churches were required to subscribe. The confession stands as one of the best symbolical statements of Reformed doctrine. The translation presented here is based on the French  text of 1619 and was adopted by the Synod of 1985 of the Christian
Reformed Church” (underlining added).

        The error in this document is quite similar to the error in which the Galatians found themselves. Near the very beginning of the document we read these words, “Having abolished circumcision which was done with blood, he established in its place the sacrament of baptism.” Yet no where is this taught in the Holy Scriptures. The proof text used to support their position is Colossians 2:11-12, which states:

    “In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”

        However, please notice that these verses do not say that baptism replaced circumcision. In fact, the circumcision mentioned in these verses is not even physical circumcision, but rather spiritual circumcision. It is a circumcision made without hands, by the faith of the operation of God. Therefore, to say that physical baptism replaced physical circumcision based upon these verses, is to make a very poor and incorrect interpretation that twists the clear meaning of the text. The circumcision mentioned in these verses is what takes place today in the hearts of those who are saved by placing their trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.
        Article 34 of the Belgic Confession goes on to proclaim,  “By it we are received into God’s Church and set apart from all other people and alien religions, that we may be dedicated entirely to him, bearing his mark and sign. It also witnesses to us that he will be our God forever, since he is our gracious Father.” (underlining added).  Again, no where in the Scriptures does it teach that being baptized places a person in the church. The church is not a building made up of brick and mortar, wood and nails, nor is it a denomination that we have joined. The church is the body of Christ. It is made up of individuals who have placed their trust in the Lord Jesus for the salvation of their souls. We gain entry into God’s church and become God’s children by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, not by being baptized as this man-made document and doctrine claims (Jn. 1:11-13, 1 Pet. 2:4-10, Eph. 1:15-3:21).  
        The same Article 34 teaches baptismal regeneration (salvation by baptism), for it claims that a person is received into the church of God and that God becomes our Father through baptism. Article 34 continues in its teaching of baptismal regeneration as follows: (underlining added)

    “In this way he signifies to us that just as water washes away the dirt of the body when it is poured on us and also is seen on the body of the baptized when it is sprinkled on him, so too the blood of Christ does the same thing internally, in the soul, by the Holy Spirit.
    It washes and cleanses it from its sins and transforms us from being the children of wrath into the children of God.  This does not happen by the physical water but by the sprinkling of the precious blood of the Son of God, who is our Red Sea, through which we must pass to escape the tyranny of Pharoah, who is the devil, and to enter the spiritual land of Canaan.
    So ministers, as far as their work is concerned, give us the sacrament and what is visible, but our Lord gives what the sacrament signifies - namely the invisible gifts and graces; washing, purifying, and cleansing our souls of all filth and unrighteousness; renewing our hearts and filling them with all comfort; giving us true assurance of his fatherly goodness; clothing us with the “new man” and stripping off the “old” with all its works.
    For this reason we believe that anyone who aspires to reach eternal life ought to be baptized only once without ever repeating it - for we cannot be born twice. Yet this baptism is profitable not only when the water is on us and when we receive it but throughout our entire lives.”

        This man-made doctrine claims that as a person (many of which are infants) is sprinkled with water at his baptism, so the Holy Spirit does the same thing to his soul with the blood of Christ, and that he is cleansed from his sin and transformed from a child of wrath into a child of God. Honestly friends, you would be hard pressed to come up with a more clear teaching of baptismal regeneration than Article 34 of the Belgic Confession. If the Apostle Paul announced such a severe curse on those that taught that salvation was through circumcision and law keeping, what do you think he would say to those that teach Article 34 of the Belgic Confession as holy doctrine? After all, this document makes almost the identical claim as that of the false teachers in the Galatian church. Article 34 of the Belgic Confession teaches that baptism replaces circumcision and that by it a person becomes a child of God . We can be sure that the Apostle Paul would have cursed anyone teaching this false gospel as well. He was very zealous for the true gospel, the “apostolic” gospel. Let us remember that the Apostle Paul was the one who wrote these words in the book of Romans:

    “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also the Greek”.  Romans 1:16

        The true gospel has the power to save every soul that believes it, and a false gospel has the power to doom every soul that believes it.  Dear friend, I have not written to offend or incite argument, but out of concern for your soul. Let me ask you, what gospel do you believe? Only the true gospel will save you from the wrath of God.

Visit our web site for more articles and information at  http://nlbchapel.org

This has nothing to do with water baptism Brother... Paul is speaking about circumcision here and the Law. If water baptism was perverting the gospel of Christ, then Christ perverted his own gospel...so did Paul and Peter and the rest of the apostles. Because they all baptized one time or another. Except for Christ.. the Bible says his followers did the baptizing and that he had more followers baptized than John. Paul also said he only baptised a few...but that does'nt mean his followers did not. As a matter of fact, all the Corinthian Church was water baptized. And guess what? they were Gentiles.

Act 18:6  And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook [his] raiment, and said unto them, Your blood [be] upon your own heads; I [am] clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.
Act 18:7  And he departed thence, and entered into a certain [man's] house, named Justus, [one] that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue.
Act 18:8  And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.
Act 18:9  Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:
Act 18:10  For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city.

Also Paul asked them whos name were they baptized in... when they were saying I am of Paul, and I am of Christ, and so on.


1Co 1:12  Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13  Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

This is what happends when the saints get carnal.

Act 20:27  For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

This sounds about right... declare all the councel of God

God bless you brother

PART 1

From the book "COMMON QUESTIONS ABOUT THE GRACE MESSAGE" by Joel Finck
(I will send a copy of this book, at my expense, to anyone that request it. I will need to know your mailing address. You can e-mail it to me @jellema@alliancecom.net. I PROMISE to keep that information confidential, and not sent any orther material unless requested.)

Question #9) WHY DO WE WATER BAPTIZE?

Nowhere in Paul’s epistles do you ever find instructions for us to be water baptized. Many recognize that Paul was given revelation from the Lord and that in fact, he
writes directly to the churches and the church leaders, Timothy and Titus and to the saints of the Body of Christ. Yet, does it not strike you as a little strange that if we are supposed to be water baptizing that Paul never tells us to do it. He never tells us how it is supposed to be done, how it should be carried out, who should be doing it, etc.

Why is this? True Christianity is a faith which involves an inward reality, not outward ritual. And yet even as we write this, the vast majority of Christendom, has reverted back to the rituals of the Law and the Jewish Kingdom program.

Israel was a sign nation. God revealed to the Jewish people many outward shows of their faith. These involved sacrifices, water rituals and ceremonial washings, certain meats and drinks, observance of days, etc. All of these being designed to teach certain truths to the nation Israel. As one examines God’s spiritual program for this dispensation, however, as it is revealed to the Apostle of the Gentiles, the Apostle Paul, it soon becomes evident that these outward, visible manifestations of Israel’s religion, do not belong to the Church the Body of Christ. Indeed, they have no place in the practice of our faith in this dispensation. Amazingly, many churches would agree. They would say, of course, we do not observe those Jewish rituals. We have instead our own Christian rituals that we do! Many fail to realize that the so-called Christian ordinances and rituals actually can be traced back to the Jewish program for the nation Israel.

I Corinthians 1:17 says, “For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.” Water baptism is not a part of Paul’s commission. Later on we will discuss the Great Commission. One of the reasons many people teach that we should be water baptized is because it is a part of the Great Commission given to the Twelve Apostles. We will deal with that in depth later. But what we need to see here is the Apostle Peter and the other Eleven Apostles could not have said what Paul says here in I Corinthians 1, “Christ sent me not to baptize.” Peter would have been telling a lie if he had said this, because Christ did send him to baptize. “Go ye therefore, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19). Paul was not operating under the commission given to the Twelve Apostles, and neither are we. That Commission was a Kingdom Commission.

Where did water baptism come from and who was the first person who practiced water baptism? Perhaps 99 out of 100 would answer, John the Baptist. He certainly
sounds like one who would be the first to baptize. His name is John the Baptist (or “baptizer”). Why was he called the baptizer? Was he doing something new? No, not at all. Hebrews 9:10 speaks of the “diverse washings” of the Old Testament tabernacle. In the Old Testament, every time you read of a washing at the door of the tabernacle, it is a “baptism”. For the word translated “washings” in Hebrews 9:10 is “baptizmos” or baptisms.

Baptisms did not begin with John the Baptist. He was just continuing that which had been practiced for hundreds of years.

Ephesians 4:3 says, “Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body...”

This is the Body of Christ. Then, in verse 5, Paul continues, “There is One Lord, one faith, one baptism...” This verse has probably been more obscured by theologians than any verse in the Bible. It is not that they have never read it, but that they fail to grasp Paul’s point.

When we search the Scriptures we find that there are as many as twelve baptisms. Some of these are water baptisms of the Law, others are spiritual in nature. In Matthew 3:11, John the Baptist said, “I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.” Right here in this context we see three baptisms - water, Holy Spirit and fire.

Yet, Paul says there is one baptism! Did Paul not know the Scriptures? Of course he did, but Paul is speaking in the context of the Body of Christ and his conclusion is that while there are many baptisms in the Bible - twelve or more - only one of them pertains to us in this dispensation of the Grace of God. Which one do you suppose it is?

I Corinthians 12:12, 13 says, “For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body.”

Here is a spiritual baptism. This baptism has no water whatsoever. It is performed by the Holy Spirit of God. It happens the moment you believe the gospel of Christ’s death, burial and resurrection. The Holy Spirit supernaturally baptizes you into the Body of Christ.

Another translation of the word “baptize” is the word “identify”, because that is what happens when we are saved. We become identified with Christ. What three things did we believe in order to be saved? His death, His burial and His resurrection. What three things are we identified with when we trust him? His death, His burial and His resurrection.

This is what Paul is speaking of in Romans 6. Many a fundamentalist preacher is very adamant that this is not a water baptism. And yet, it seems as though by the time they dance all around the subject of baptism, they finally managed to squeeze a few drops of water out of Romans 6. Why is this? It is an attempt to prove a point which cannot be proven from Scripture. Romans 6:3, “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ...” When you believed the gospel the Holy Spirit identified you with Christ. What happened then? “...as many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?” You became identified with the death of Christ. What is so important about that? The Scripture says, “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). Furthermore it says, “the wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). That is spiritual death as well as physical death. Because we are sinful, we must die. We must pay the penalty of sin with our life. But this is what the gospel is all about. Christ came and paid the penalty of sin by dying for us. Therefore, when you believe the gospel, you are baptized or identified with Jesus Christ, and therefore you are baptized into His death. This means you no longer must die spiritually for your sins, because His death is accounted to you. It now belongs to you. And you, therefore, have eternal life. This is the gospel message.

But not only are we identified with His death, verse 4 says, “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death.” This is the verse where many get the idea
that believers should be dunked under water. They assume that since we are buried, we should, therefore, be put in a “watery grave.” But this not only misses the point, it actually totally destroys the meaning that Paul is trying to show. He is not saying you were buried in water. He says you were buried with Christ. His burial becomes your burial by virtue of your baptism into His death. Paul is building on that truth now. Not only are you identified with His death (you no longer have to die for your sins), but you are buried with Him as well.

What is the importance of the burial of Christ? First, it shows Christ really died. You do not bury people who are not dead. He was truly dead and therefore, He was
buried. But it also pictures the putting away of sin. When Christ rose from that grave, our sins stayed buried. This is the imagery that God wants us to see. The fact that we are identified with His death relieves us from having to die for our sins. The fact that we are buried with Him means that those sins are done away with, and finally, weare identified with His resurrection, because of spiritual baptism!

Finally, verse 4 goes on to say, “...that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
Because of our identification with Christ, we now have the spiritual equipment by the Holy Spirit to live the Christian life. This is what spiritual baptism is all about.
Why would we trade all this for a water ceremony?

(to be continued)
God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

PART 2

Question #10) WHY WAS JESUS BAPTIZED?

Why was Christ baptized? Most assume that if He did it, surely we should do it, too. Let us consider why Christ was baptized in His own words. John the Baptist had this same question on his mind when Christ came to be baptized of him. John said, “Why are you coming to be baptized by me? I need to be baptized by you!” Why
would John have said that? Because at that time, water baptism was associated with cleansing from sin (see Mark 1:4). John knew that Christ had no sin, so he is wondering why Christ would need to be baptized. Notice the Lord’s answer: Matthew 3:13-15, “Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, ‘Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness.’ Then he suffered him.”

What did the Lord mean when He said “it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness”? Why did Christ come to the nation of Israel? Did He come to destroy the Law with its ordinances or to do away with the prophets? Christ Himself said, “Think not that I am come to destroy the Law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil” (Matthew 5:17). The Lord Jesus Christ, the perfect Son of God, came to identify with the human race and in particular with the nation of Israel. In doing so, He submitted Himself to all of the laws of the nation of Israel, including the water washings or baptisms. In order to identify with sinners, even though He was sinless, He
partook of this water washing which symbolized a cleansing for the nation of Israel. He came and partook of the same so He would become one with them. Furthermore, it is interesting to note that water baptism was required for the priestly tribe when they were initiated into the priesthood (Exodus 40:12). Priests were to enter the ministry at thirty years of age, which is exactly how old Christ was when He entered His earthly ministry and became water baptized according to the Law of Moses. We are not under the Law today. The Lord Jesus Christ was circumcised on the eighth day in the temple, He worshipped at the temple, and He partook of the Jewish feasts. Are we to do all of those things today? Of course not. We are not under the law, therefore, we are not subject to the water washings of the Old Testament law.

Another verse which shows why Jesus was baptized is John 1:29-31, “The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.” John’s baptism was to manifest Christ to Israel. How would the baptism of Christ reveal Him to Israel? God had told John to watch for the Spirit to descend like a dove. As he baptized, the One on whom the Spirit descended and remained, would be identified as the Messiah. “And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost” (John 1:33).

Question #11) IF WATER BAPTISM WAS A PART OF THE JEWISH LAW, AND IF IT'S RTEALLY NOT INTENDED FOR US, AND IF GOD HAS GIVEN US A SPIRITUAL BAPTISM, WHY DID PAUL BAPTIZE?

Why did Paul baptize? I Corinthians 13:12 gives us a principle which will help us to understand why Paul baptized with water in his early ministry. “For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part.” What is Paul talking about? When he wrote I Corinthians, he had only received a small portion of the full revelation that would eventually be given to him. There came a time when God did reveal the fullness of the mystery to the Apostle Paul. But when he wrote I Corinthians, he said he only knew in part. This explains why Paul continued a Jewish practice as long as he did.

We can pinpoint when Paul stopped baptizing according to Scriptures. In Acts 18 at Corinth, Paul water baptized. He refers to this in I Corinthians 1:14-16, “I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.”

Paul had gotten a revelation concerning water baptism between Acts 18 and when he wrote I Corinthians. This is a space of about two years. We can pinpoint that
during that two year period Paul received further revelation that water baptism was not a part of his commission for this Dispensation of Grace. This is what we call progressive revelation. By the time he wrote I Corinthians, Paul could confidently state, “For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel” (I Corinthians 1:17). God did not give the whole program to Paul all at one time. He progressively revealed it. And Paul did what any of us would do if we wanted to be faithful to the Lord. As we learn, we change. We practice what we know to practice until we learn otherwise. And when Paul learned that water baptism was not a part of this dispensation, there is not one more instance of Paul baptizing anyone after that time.

(to be continued)
God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh often and Love the Lord!

PART 3

Question #12) WHAT HARM IS THERE IN WATER BAPTISM?

Many recognize and understand that water baptism does not save us. They understand that we are not under the law. But really, what harm is there in going through this little ceremony? The most obvious danger is trusting in baptism rather than trusting in Christ. There are many churches today which teach salvation by baptism. We call this doctrine “Baptismal Regeneration”. Major denominations teach that the way to be saved is to be baptized with water. Why is this dangerous? Many young people are baptized with water as a child and as they grow, they are taught this took away their original sin. Or they are taught that this baptism places them into the Kingdom of God. This is tragic and it flies in the face of what Paul taught. “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast” (Ephesians 2:8, 9).

Many evangelical, fundamental churches do not teach salvation by baptism, but they will not allow you to be a member of their church unless you have been baptized. God will accept you, but they will not. Some will “sort of” accept you, but you are not considered to be in the will of God if you do not do it.

Others would say baptism is just an outward sign of an inward reality, and that being dunked in water pictures what we believe. We believe we have been buried with Christ. We believe we have been raised again and baptism is said to be a ceremony to show this. But we should ask “Why?” Where does the word of God ever tell us that baptism is to show someone you are saved? The fact is it doesn’t. Many point to Romans 6, which is not referring to water baptism at all (see question #9).

The harm, aside from the danger of clinging to baptism as your point of salvation, is the shadow water baptism casts on the message of the gospel. Colossians 2:8 says, “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”

Paul says to “beware”. Some would try to strip something from you, steal something from you. This is what is meant by the word “spoil”. But what is it they want to steal from us? Verse 9 says, “For in him [Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” And in verse 10, “And ye are complete in him.” We are complete in Him! What can you add to that? Baptism? A water washing? A ceremony? We are complete in Him. What does this say if we say we are saved, but yet there is a next step, if you want to really have everything - be baptized. What is that saying about your salvation? It is saying that something is missing. But Paul wrote that we are complete IN HIM! The Jew would ask, “Don’t I need to be circumcised?” Verse 11 answers, “In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands. In putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ.” Many today would ask, “Don’t we need to be baptized?”

Verse 12 answers, “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.” Paul’s message is that you do not need to be circumcised, you do not need to be baptized, because you already are! You are complete in Christ. You already have these things. To go back and do them for a religious purpose casts a reflection on the finished work of Christ. It is as though you are saying you really do not believe that what Christ did was quite good enough, and that it set me in perfectly good standing with God, so you are going to add just a little bit more to it. Water baptism casts a reflection on the finished work of Christ, and this is why it is dangerous!

Paul goes on to illustrate it in verse 14, “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us.” Baptism was an ordinance. Many churches will tell you
there are ordinances for today. Scripture says there are not. They have been blotted out. Verse 16 says, “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [the substance, the real thing] is of Christ.”

Baptism was a shadow - Christ is the real thing. Which would you rather have? Paul says in Christ you already have the real thing. Do not go back to the shadow. Do not go back to that which has no substance. Glory in Christ. He is the real thing! If you told your son to carry out the trash and told your daughter to do the dishes, would they be considered obedient children if your son would do the dishes and your daughter would carry out the trash? No, we might commend them for doing something, but they really could not be obedient if they did not do what you told them to do. In the final analysis, we would have to conclude they were unfaithful servants. This is a simple illustration and yet in essence, it describes what the church has been doing or trying to do for the last 2,000 years. By and large, the church has been trying to carry out the final instructions of our Lord to the Twelve Apostles, often known as the Great Commission. One of the common questions which arises when we talk about the unique and distinctive message committed to the Apostle Paul is the question:

Question # 13. AREN'T WE SUPPOSTED TO CARRY OUT THE GREAT COMMISSION?
(SNIP)

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

Hi AJ,

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. The passage in Galatians would most certainly apply to those who teach that water baptism is necessary in order for a person to be saved. Jesus nor His disciples never taught such spiritual perversions.

God bless,
Pilgrim

To rephrase a quote from President JF Kennedy
"Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of the SWORD."

Heb 4:12  For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Mar 4:12  That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
 
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mar 16:16

baptized - from the greek: (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.

THAT IS NOT SPIRITUAL PREVERSION, ITS CALLED PERCEIVING THE TRUTH, which you will not accept lest at any time you should be converted and your sins forgiven.

Shylynne posted

BigD responds:
Mark 16:17 "And these sign shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 The shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hand on the sick and they shall recover."

Now I ask: How many hospitals have you emptied lately?

Also, What gospel were they to preach; The gospel of the kingdom, or the gospel of the grace of God?

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

Mat 18:3  And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Little children accept the simple gospel message exactly as it is written, while grown intellectual men cannot.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mar 16:16
 

Shylynne posted

BigD responds:
Mark 16:17 "And these sign shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 The shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hand on the sick and they shall recover."

Now I ask: How many hospitals have you emptied lately?

Also, What gospel were they to preach; The gospel of the kingdom, or the gospel of the grace of God?

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

Hi Shylynne,

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. The verse you quote has its focus on believing, not baptism for salvation as evidenced in the last part of the verse where it says those who believe not are damned. If baptism was necessary then the last part of the verse would have to read “but he that believeth not, or is not baptized shall be damned.” yet, the verse is clear that it is believing or not believing alone that will save or damn a soul.

One could just as well say “He that believeth and is baptized, reads the Bible, pray, do good etc. shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned.” and that would be a true statement as well. If I would say “He that believeth and is baptized, reads the Bible, pray, do good etc. in order to be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned.” then it would be a false statement.

You have many clear examples in the Bible where people have been clearly saved without being water baptized. One is the thief on the cross, another is Cornelius and his household in Acts 10 where we read:

Act 10:43 “To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44  While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45  And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46  For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47  Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48  And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”

 
Where is baptism in this formula “whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins”? Notice that Cornelius and friends were saved and filled with the Holy Spirit before they were water baptized, clearly demonstrating that salvation is not necessary in order to be saved, but is something one should do who has already received salvation.

God bless,
Pilgrim

Hi Shylynne,

Are you saying that I am not saved because I do not believe baptism is necessary in order to be saved?

God bless,
Pilgrim

Mar 1:8  I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Act 1:5  For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Here we see the use of the word  baptized referring to the Holy Ghost entering the believers. This is not speaking of water baptism although it was the same greek word used.

Hi Pilgrim, I merely skimmed over your posts, but if I read you correctly you said "baptism is something one should do who has already received salvation", and yes according to the scripture, condemnation is because of unbelief,  we are baptized because we  believe.
The point I was addressing is water baptism is merely an ordinance that has been done away with, to which I respond again, according to the Word, this is a fallacy.  

1Jo 5:9  If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater:
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mar 16:16

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word.

pilgrim,
Yes, we are still receiving a different gospel, even today.
We must make sure of our interpretation, wouldn't you say?

Eph.2:8-9 ""For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith- and this is not of yourselves, it is a gift, 9. not by works, so that no one can boast." Didn't Paul say, I came to preach the gospel, not to baptize, he went on to say that he did baptize someone, but his emphasis was on the Word of God.

Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying abour baptism. I believe a person should be baptized to identify with God's Church. We are baptized because we are saved, not to be saved.
(Titus 3:5-7)
May I ask, what is your view of salvation. What does your church teach?

Peace,
bluelake

btw, I believe in the same Gospel that you do, if you are a christian. :)
I don't think we have the same understanding of what it says.

Mk.16:16, this verse is often mistaken for baptismal regeneration. You will notice it begins with "The one who believes. it also ends with 'who does not believe will be condemned.' Baptism alone without faith does not save. Those who refuse to believe will be condemned regardless of whether or not they have been baptized.
 Rom.5:1, We are justified by faith. :)

Blessings,
bluelake