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I received one of those e-mails that Christians love to pass around. This was one of those that referred to the violence in schools. The theory offered was that weak-minded excuse that the violence began when prayer was taken out of the public schools.

Actually, the real reason all these things have happened is because Christians have been pursuing material security and worldliness, and trying to think they are doing God's work by playing politics .... all that instead of doing what Jesus said to do: make disciples. We can't legislate righteousness, and forcing prayer in school won't change the sinfulness of the people.

Doesn't it bother anyone that Christians claim Grace and want to legislate law upon non-Christians? Actually, the mentality is frightening as well as repulsive.

But, why should Christian parents go on pursuing "the American dream" and think the world will be alright if they can just get prayer back in school and stop abortions?

Let's ask the question: which prayer should be said in public schools? A Catholic prayer? A charismatic prayer? A Wiccan prayer? A New Age Prayer? On what basis can we force a Christian prayer to be used in school, and no other kind of prayer? Do Christians really think we have the right to force pagans to be subjected to our traditions and liturgies? On what basis?

Of course, if we were making disciples, there would not be the divorce, the abortions, and the godlessness among those who are discipled. But, the method that most Christians want to use is: a) avoid making disciples, and b) legislate our faith upon unbelievers. Jesus never authorized us to do this, but it isn't going to stop most Christians from making up the "Christian" agenda, is it?

But, what can we say? Christians want to PLAY, and FEEL spiritual instead of doing God's will, God's way.

What do I know? Who am I? I suppose I'm just fed up with spiritual sandbox "pass the good feelin' e-mail" games which just play around with feel good answers instead of affirming what Jesus says we are to be and do.

Gaither wrote a song: "you talk about weather, you talk about things that really aren't important at all ..." [that includes patriotism, pagan politics, and trying to "fix things" by forcing prayer in school instead of living as Jesus prescribes, so far as I can understand the Scriptures].

Oh, yeah, we "think" we are doing that ... but why don't we look any different from our pagan neighbors? And why are we trying to solve society's problems with worldly methods???????????

Anybody want to try to quote Scripture on why it is necessary to force prayer to be in school instead of making disciples? Is there any reason why we have to have prayer in schools in America when Christians can't force prayer in schools in China, Malaysia, Thailand, Japan, etc, etc, etc?

Why is it that Christians in the USA are so racist and superior that they think they have "rights" that Christians in almost every other nation of the earth have no hope of ever experiencing? Would we still serve Jesus if we were black and dirt poor in Haiti?

And how can "rights" be part of discipleship when Jesus tells us we must deny self in order to follow Him? (Luke 9.23) Are we worldly citizens of a pagan society, or are we citizens of the Kingdom of God, which never asks us our opinion nor gives us an opportunity to vote? Have I missed something? Is God now operating by opinion polls and democracy?

Maybe being Christian results in split personality disorders, eh? We can be obedient to God in the quiet corners of our heart, but look and act like the world in our "real" life? There is something radically wrong with such carnal faith, don't you think?

How about we get back to submitting to Jesus' commission, and let God take care of the pagan government and public schools? We might see the world start to change if we took the task of making disciples absolutely serious.

Well, you're right, Talma, that re-inserting prayers back into schools, or at least public schools, is only a small part of the story.

Schools, teachers and the public are entirely different animals from when prayer use to be a humble part.

Humility is not taught in schools.

Prayer is result or consequence of humility.

So forcing prayer back in, is to me a grotesque and deformed ambition.  It will only further the cause of the beast we are creating for ourselves.

some of the public schools are still doing some good things, I think.  I'm not an expert on this.

But all learning begins with a humble and contrite heart, which is what prayer requires.

There's no humiltiy in the public schools. Until someone runs in with a machine gun and mows everyone down.  Then the guidance councelors, or grief counselors, or whatever they call them, rush in say oh how we need to be kind to one another.

   ::)

But I don't go near the public schools, or have anything to do with them, so I'm no longer fully informed.

Maybe they are teaching humility and I just don't know about it.

You make some very good points, Talmadge.

Why should there be prayers in school in the first place?

Woah...new methods to old problems... its not like the old methods didn't work, that's why we have the same old problems...

Yeah, force Christianity onto people is the solution, not the problem!

Hmmmm..... and your text starts with:
"Si Dieu existait"....
IF God existed?

I can quote all of our forefathers on this nation of Christianity, because I have a book that has about 50,000 quotes from the founding fathers , christanity, and polictics. But I want. This is now, not when George was president ot F>D> even. We are in a different time zone. Most people don't even know what Thansgiving is really about anymore, or Christmas as far as that goes.

This is a Message for SYMPHONY, being humble comes from a type of personality and is not taught by a hand full of (or they humble) teachers. This is suppose to start at home. which it has slowly declined in the last few decades.lI don't want any teacher teaching my grandchildrean about being humble or sexual activity. Thier parents or maybe "even" me.