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In an unusual but positive way, my friends and I (college-age - I'm a senior) have started talking about theology and spirituality.  My friend Nick is unsure of what he believes.  He wants to believe in God, but as he put it, "How can I love a fair God if people like Hindu priests devote their entire lives to such a code behavior and worshipping their gods are eternally damned after death?"  They are obviously sinning by putting some other god (or anything else) before God, but many are naive, I think.

What's the answer?  What becomes of such cases where the person is unreached by Christianity?  What does the Bible say?

Thanks for all reads and replies in advance.

I don't remember the exact phrase and all but it is actually dealt with.

The more important issue is this: When anyone gives a phrase like
"How can I believe/love/trust God IF....."  This is a complete lack of faith and trust in God.  One needs to first have faith in the LORD before being able to discern and understand His word.  We are not hear to argue truth but to proclaim it.

Rom 10:17  So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

This comes back to faith in the LORD and if this person has it or not.  No argument from you or the bible will matter to this person because they have not faith.  Any if question towards God for not having belief is an excuse not a reason.  Your "friend" needs to be shown the clear message of salvation.  After that it is with God and in His time.

This is a hard thing for many to learn that it is in God's time and salvation only by Him anyhow.  This is why we proclaim the truth and do not argue it.

Strangly enough, anyone who is religious in any form realizes there must be a higher power.   Otherwise they would not be trying to please him right?   Many turn to false gods.  Hindu's have more gods than you can shake a stick at, however, they are easy to witness to, because of their openes to gods.   Having one more is no big deal to them.  

As to the question.....

Rom 1:20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

This tells us man is without excuse.  Creation itself proclaims it!

BUT....

Rom 1:21  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

This is what happens when they reject and refuse that.   First it tells us their hearts are foolish, and their imaginations become vain.   The earmarks of all false religion is that man can somehow be good enough to please God.   Mans attempt to reach God is religion, Gods attempt to reach man was Christ.  

So to answer your question plainly.  What happens to a sick person who uses the wrong medicine?   His condition worsens and he eventually dies, unless, he realises the medicine he is taking is not improving things and seeks an alternative.   Only God has the remedie for mans illness.  And that perscription is Christ.   All the others lead no-where...and thats exactly where they will wind up without the Lord.

Grace and Peace!

My friend Nick is unsure of what he believes.
What do YOU believe?

What does the Bible say?
Have you looked it up?

 :)

Thank you all.

sincereheart, thanks for your good intention, but that's exactly where I already was - what I believe (that man knows of God without being told);  I could not find scriptures that refer to it, nor another website or forum thread that dealt with the issue.

Saved_4ever,  When anyone gives a phrase like
"How can I believe/love/trust God IF....."  This is a complete lack of faith and trust in God.

Sure it is...lack of faith from lack of understanding.  I wouldn't go as far as saying complete lack of faith though.  I'm not looking to argue the point with him, and he's not looking to argue the point with me or anyone else.  He has just been introduced to salvation, and Christianity period.  He's looking for a valid answer, and I've always found that when I'm looking for an answer to a question I have, the Bible supplies it.  He's looking for the truth that the Bible proclaims on the matter.

A million thanks, 2nd Timothy, for directing me to the scriptures and putting into words that I couldn't quite find myself.   ;D

Read Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, because they are understood through what has been made. So people are without excuse.

So we see the creator through the creation.  Even without the Bible, we see the creator.  God is evident if you open your eyes and look around.  Note that there were people who were saved before there was a Bible, like Abraham.  We are to take the Bible to all people, but even if they do not see a Bible or hear it preached, they are still without excuse.

This also accounts for why so many religions tend to share things with Christianity.  The people who started the religion could see the truth, but also missed part of the truth.

I hope that helps.

Marv

Yup. In the end there will be none who can stand with an excuse before the Almighty. All will stand without excuse before God so that they will be judged. This has been a much debated and discussed subject. It will be interesting to continue reading the posts. Anyway...the teacher's left so i gotta head back to class. God Bless, i'll be checking back later on today.

In His Service,
Joshua

Slow Graffiti,

I wanted to say one other thing.

Your friend is troubled about a "fair" God and asks how God could condemn someone that leads a good life.

I would ask your friend what happens if he keeps all of man's laws except he murders one person.  Is he given a free ride because he has done such a good job the rest of the time?

Can your friend ever remember one time when he has sinned?  Then he is condemned to death because the wages of sin is death.  But we are fortunate indeed that God is not fair, for to be fair he would let us perish, it would be the only fair thing to do.  Instead he loves us so much he took our penalty on himself by dieing for our sins, not his own sin, but as an innocent man he was executed'.  So your friends sin is already paid for if he but puts his faith in Jesus, then Jesus takes his place.

Going back to our laws, it would be as if your friend had committed a murder, and someone else was willing to be executed to pay for his crime while he goes free.

Currently, your friend is on death row awaiting execution.   If he puts his faith in Jesus (not just believe there was a Jesus, but really trust Jesus to be his Lord), the cell door will fly open and he will be a free man.  Free like he has never been.

Praise God that he is not fair.

Marv

My point was that your friend was passing judgement on God.  When someone thinks they can pass judgment on God they are not ready.  If you give someone a clear message of salvation God will do the rest.  It doesn't matter what answer you can come up  with or without the bible.  They are not ready to hear and believe.  So there is no need to give any answer from scripture because they are not believing in scripture already.  Otherwise they wouldn't question, tempt, or judge God.

I speak to you from experience.  I have a friend right now who even knows the message of salvation better than some who claim it.  Yet he is not ready and the LORD works in His time not ours.  I have others friends and strangers whom I answer their questions with the bible and the answer is not good enough or they don't believe it.  Questions get answered after salvation not before, or answers are understood after not before.  God has given us the answers we just aren't ready to hear them.

I agree Bro


(http://www.sirinet.net/~blkidps/blgif1.gif)

Thank you, Marv  ;)


He can't believe in scripture because he doesn't know any...he's new to everything, aside from what he's heard on television, other people, etc. (which amounts to essentially nothing but misunderstandings and grossly incomplete pictures).  He has never given religion or spirituality much thought at all.  He has asked a legitimate question, and I would like to provide him with the answer.  Obviously, the answer will include emphasis on the fact that he can't hope to wholly understand until faith is established, and he already understands that much.

My point is not that you are wrong or right - it's that you are overlooking my question totally.  While I thank you for your input and time, I'm looking for the Bible's answer, whether or not you (or I) think he will believe it or understand it; whether or not you think providing the answer will do any good.  I didn't come with questions about that.  The simple fact that there is an answer will be, in itself, a positive sign.

 Hi Slow Graffiti. Here is an excellent christian website that deals with this kind of issue. Here is the post.

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/meorburn.html

 Topics

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/topix.html

Hopes this helps out.

 :)  Anytime SG.  These are important questions to seek answers for.  

Grace and Peace!

Slow Graffiti,

It seems to me there is a problem in discussing religion with your friend the way you are going about it.

Trying to answer the questions that come up results in flying willy nilly all over based on misunderstandings of Christianity and the Bible and you never really get to start with the foundational truths and go from there.  

I would suggest getting a good basic truths study and going through it with him.  Or maybe there is a church where you are at that provides a beginning Chrisitians class that covers those things in a short period of time.

I would approach it something like this:  I really enjoy being able to talk with you about religion, and truths.  I have learned from our discussions that I really need to do some Bible study myself on just what the Bible says and where it says it.  I have found this study (or class) and intend to go through it to help my own understanding, would you be willing to study (or go) with me?

I think that would be more productive than how you are currently witnessing, because as the discussions are currently going, all religions tend to be given similar strength.  From my college days, those discussions would tend to be almost some New Age, pick whatever from whereever, or turn into a worship God any way you want.  It is enough years since my college days that I don't really have a good recommendation for a study right off the top of my head.  But my real first choice would be a class on the fundamentals, it adds the positional authority of the teacher, many campuses have Christian organizations which are very active.  I would really suggest contacting them for help on finding such a class.  I would think they would be offering such a class on a fairly regular basis.

Thank you for caring enough about your friend to ask for help, you are reflecting God's love.  Best wishes in your walk.

Marv

What's the answer?

Plant a seed and pray with him, if not pray for him. How do you plant a seed? The best way is to testify what God has done in your life.

What becomes of such cases where the person is unreached by Christianity?

Sometimes all you can do is plant a seed and pray it takes root.

What does the Bible say?

What some call The Roman Road. (http://www.thegoodnews.org/CD/roman_road/roman_road.html)

Edit: Let them see you walking with the Lord.

AMEN AT_THE_CROSS!

It makes me very happy to hear about people accepting Jesus. I give thanks for those stubborn Christians who keep trying.

All of the real and lasting answers are in JESUS.


Love In Christ,
Tom

You can read Eph.1: 4-10, God chose us from the foundation of the world. :)

Peace,
bluelake

Your friend raises a good point with the example of Hindus - it's all relative. Remember, the romans, as they were throwing christians to the lions, were yelling "Death to the atheists!"

The question you should be asking yourself really is more along the lines of: why is/are my god(s) true and all the other gods false?

Cosmo,

Those are questions for the lost, and we were all lost at one point in our lives. When your heart is filled with JESUS, there is no question any longer.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 100:1-5  Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all ye lands. Serve the LORD with gladness: come before his presence with singing. Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture. Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name. For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.

So you outright refuse to question your own beliefs? By asking yourself questions about your religion, one of two things will happen:

1. You reaffirm your beliefs, strengthening them
2. You realize your current beliefs are in need of reevaluation, and begin to think them over

Either way, it's a positive outcome. What have you to lose?

It is not a matter of refusing to question but rather not having the need to question for that question has already been answered when you have Jesus.

AMEN BROTHER!!

I've had Jesus in my heart for over 50 years, and that is my biggest joy and peace.

My only questions involve me, not JESUS. As unworthy as I am,:

why did Jesus love me enough to die for me?

why did Jesus offer Himself to me as Lord and Saviour?

why did Jesus rescue me from the curse of sin and death?

why does Jesus live in me and allow me to live in Him?

AND - I know the answer to the last questions:

What did I do to deserve being adopted as a child of God and given an inheritance with the saints in Glory?

What did I do to deserve spending eternity with Jesus?

Answer: NOTHING! - JESUS PAID IT ALL!!


Love In Christ,
Tom

Acts 26:18  To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Amen, Tom!  Amen!

The answer to all of those is LOVE. It is the kind of love that makes a soldier lay down his life for others that he does not even know, yet are his brothers and sisters, even when some of them have rejected you.

Jesus knows each and everyone of us even before we know Him. He knows all that we have done. Still He LOVES us.

As unworthy as we are He still LOVES us all. Not because of anything that we have said or done, not because of who we are but just because He does.

All we have to do is to accept and to return that LOVE.