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Last night, me and a group of friends where talking about Baptist who beleive they are the orginalinal First Centry Church. I have heard before, and read in a few articles (on Baptist site) that Baptist believed. I didn’t believe it until someone in hear actually said this. Anyways, I was wondering with any knows about the Baptist believing they are not Protestant. Is it all Baptist groups, or just a few of the more extreme ones. I ask because I was talking to a few BMA’s last night, and they haven’t even heard this!

Tibby, I can't speak for the Baptist.  But when I was growing up I was taught the Catholic Church was the first century church and Peter was the first pope.  ha imagine that ;).  So I guess the Baptist aren't the only ones with this claim.

Wasn't the church of the first century the same church as revealed to us in the Bible? Christ's church.

Baptists believe they are part of the first church, which means "Christ's church", the only true church of believers.  Most baptists do not believe that this only pertains to them but to other denominations as well, but true believers, not just baptists, methodists, catholics,etc.  Baptists are protestant but not the only protestants.  

Baptists are not protestants.  I can't think of the site now but I will find it later.  Even a RCC priest will tell you baptists are not the same as prtestants.  Protestants came from the RCC, Baptists did not.

Depending on how you define "Protestant," I think you would have to say that Baptists are indeed Protestants. The word literally comes from the word "protest" -- the Protestants were protesting against the Roman Catholic Church of the Middle Ages. The Baptists were one group that grew out of a group of Protestants, I think beginning in the Netherlands, known as the Anabaptists. They drew their name from their primary and supposedly unique declaration that baptism was a symbol of salvation to be performed only by someone old enough to receive and, at least as much as is humanly possible, understand the sacrifice made for us by Christ.

On the other hand, you're certainly right in suggesting that Baptists frequently like to separate themselves from other Protestant denominations in the mainline church. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure why this is the case, but it's also worth pointing out that there is a huge variety of "Baptist" groups, from the Southern Baptists of the U.S. -- George Bush is a good example of this faith -- to a Canadian evangelical group I know of which is almost liberal in their faith -- ALMOST, I say.

 I once heard a joke -- from a Baptist pastor and friend of mine, actually -- which went something like this:

A Methodist who had just gone to heaven was met by a Presbyterian as he was staring at a square marked off by very high walls. Behind the walls, the Methodist could hear voices. "Who is behind the wall, and why is there no way in?" he asked the Presbyterian.

"Oh, those are the Baptists," said the Presbyterian. "They think they're the only ones up here."

 :)

If I needed to join a religion, I would join the Baptist religion.

Brother Love :)

Hi Tibby,

Here's something that may be of interest.

Thought you had run away to a new church!

http://www.yellowstone.net/baptist/history.htm



Regards,

questions

Thanks for the link

Brother Love :)

Yes, Brother Love's remark, that they are, or easily become, a religion, seems accurate to me.

The Church of Christ, here in U.S., believes they represent the First Century Church--first century Christianity, as they call it.  But the Cof C seems to be much more strict about water baptism.

Together then with the above remark re: RCC and Peter the first pope..   We now have at least three, claiming first century origins:  RCC, Baptist, and CofC...

But honoestly, I thought Baptists traced theirs TO John the Baptist...

I've heard the question, Are Baptists even Christians?

But, as above too, there are many different kinds of Baptists.

BTW, Tibby,  what is BMA?

Protestantism, was the basis for the Reformation, the 95 Theses, proposed by Martin Luther were propositions defended in argument, which he hoped would curb the papal abuses and the sale of indulgences by church officials.
when he nailed his Ninety-Five Theses to the door of the Wittenberg Church.

Luther himself saw the Reformation as something far more important than a revolt against ecclesiastical abuses. He believed it was a fight for the gospel. Luther even stated that he would have happily yielded every point of dispute to the Pope, if only the Pope had affirmed the gospel.

And at the heart of the gospel, in Luther's estimation, was the doctrine of justification by faith--the teaching that Christ's own righteousness is imputed to those who believe, and on that ground alone, they are accepted by God.

Of course we know "the rest of the story", since the Catholic  Church still to this very day, sales indulgences, in the way of offerings up for a mass or series of masses, for the deceased, for which the families of the dead pay.

As for Baptist, I understand the Baptist church to be of a variety similar to the "Heines 57" soups, it depends which group one belongs to, which will determine, what one believes;
On the one extreme end, you have the ultra liberal baptists, while on the other hand you have the Conservative Baptist, the later espousing and teaching to sound doctrine, these to my knowledge do not, consider themselves to the original 1st century church, and do consider themselves born out of the reformation.

Usually any visible church which considers itself to be the one and only true chuch, uses a formula, tying itself to some authoritarian figure who transferred or conferred the authority given by Christ to the Apostles.

In the case of Othodoxy, they have the same pope, the Roman Catholic church uses, to establish their authority, while some of the cults, use a perceived ordained prophet who is directly commissioned by  God himself, as an authoritative  figure, and some even claiming the Holy Spirit, as one who commissions the observances of God and the things of God.

Blessings,

Petro

Thanks Petrom very good  ;D

Sorry it took so long to reply, I've been out for a few days.

kathleen5- Yeah, pretty much EVERY church believe they are a modern model of the first Century church, But only churches like Baptist, Catholics, and Eastern Orthodoxy bring it so far as to say they WERE the original church, descended directly from Paul and Peter and the rest of the gang.

Sympophone- I believe the BMA stands for the Baptist Missionary Alliance, or something like that. They are fairy new branch of the SBC (Southern Baptist Convention). The BMA is big here where I live. They where founded in Arkansas. I live in a town on the Northeast side of Texas, where the BMA’s home seminary is located. BMA, in sort, are about the same as SBC, only they don’t agree with who the SBC using there missionary money. Also, the BMA are WAY heavier into Fundamentalism them SBC.

Saved_4ever- What type of Baptist are you? I’m guessing you’re a Fundamentalism/bible Baptist, right? Please find that web site when you get a chance.

Petro- The Eastern Orthodoxy have their own Patriarch, I’m pretty sure they don’t follow the pope.

Everyone else- Thanks for the info, guys. In a town were the Baptist churches outnumber all of the other groups, it helps to get all the info you can find.

How about...

Pentacostals?
Anglicans?
Lutherans?
Methodists?
Unitarians?
Free Reformists?
Mormons? ( not christians in a sense )
Christadelphians?
Presbytarians?

Didn't all of these come from Protestantism?
 

Forgive me, I cant stop myself  ;D

Born a Baptist

A Baptist man lived in a traditional Catholic
neighborhood. Every Friday, the Catholics were
driven crazy because, while they were morosely eating
fish, the Baptist was outside barbecuing steaks.
The Catholics worked on the Baptist, attempting to
convert him to Catholicism. Finally, after much
pleading and some threats, the Catholics succeeded.
They took the Baptist to a priest who sprinkled
Holy Water on the man while saying, "Born a Baptist,
Raised a Baptist, Now a Catholic!"
The Catholics were ecstatic but this was short-lived
for, the next Friday evening, the scent of barbecue
once again drifted through the neighborhood.
The Catholics all rushed to the ex-Baptist's house
to remind him of his new diet.
They found him standing over the cooking steaks,
sprinkling water on the meat and saying, "Born a
cow, Raised a cow, Now a fish!"  ;D ;D ;D

Ha, ha?  ???

Anglicans are not considered to be protestants.
They're in the middle between Catholics and protestants - because you can get both very low churches, similar to the evangelical denominations, and the Anglo-Catholic churches - which are pretty much identical to Catholic ones save only that they do not recognise the Pope as the supreme authority. On every other issue these churches agree with Catholics.

I know some Methodists who think the same thing. They think they are the perfect mix of Protestants and Catholics. Then again, the Methodists did come from the Anglican church...

And nearly went back to it, Tibby.

In the late 80's, early 90's, the Methodists were thinking of becoming part of the Anglican church again, so much so that they actually dissolved themselves. But then, in 1991, the Church of England decided to admit women priests - but also instituted "flying bishops", who had never ordained a woman, to serve churches and ordain men who did not want their bishop to have ordained a woman. The Methodists disagreed with this (as did just about everyone else, from both sides of the fence!), as they already admit women ministers, but have a total committment to the issue, and so they're still a separate church.

There you go, a bit of church history for you :) Actually, I like the methodists - unlike the Church of England, where I come from, the Methodists are the church of the poor, and have always stood up for workers, and workers' rights - their earliest converts were among the miners and fishermen. Actually I know a funny story about that: John Wesley came to Newcastle (in the North of England) and tried to convert the keelmen (they ferried coal down the Tyne to waiting ships). The keelmen were famed for being irreligious, and turned on him. A howling mob chased him, and they were going to throw him into the river when a fish-wife appeared, flung her arm round him and yelled "If any of you touch my canny man, I'll gut you!" Hee hee. I've always found the image of Wesley being defended by one of those big, brawny, loud women rather funny!

That is rather interesting Broken. I didn't know that.

But I still want to know about the baptist! ;D Come on, guys give me some meat, some leget web sites and cites!

Tibby, what is your tag?

Brother Love :)

Are leget websites anything like liggit (legitimate) websites?  If so i will try to remember to email my friend and ask for the website/s.

Yeah, what he said! lol, same difference. Get me a liggit web site, please  ;D

Here ya go....

The priest's comments on Protestantism vs. Biblical Fundamentalism can be accessed from this page:  http://www.epiphanychurch.org/question/question.htm
 
Here is the specific link to his answer to the question, What is Protestantism:  http://www.epiphanychurch.org/question/question7.htm
 
Here is the specific link to his answer to the question, What is Biblical Fundamentalism:
http://www.epiphanychurch.org/question/question8.htm
 
Lot's of other interesting things on the directory page.  Check it out!
 
The info on Luther and his hatred of the ana-Baptists can be found in "The History of Baptists" printed by Lehigh Valley Baptist Bible Institute.  Emmaus, PA 18049.  Page 134 and following.


Enjoy

Thanks Brother

Brother Love :)

Tibby what is your tag?


Brother Love :)

Tibby,

As a former member of both an independent and Southern Baptist Church here are a few insights.

1) The Independent Baptist Church is legalistic in many ways.... yet they do have some truth. The three sermons I always heard were on the "rapture", tithing, and eternal security. There was real no emphasis on personal holiness, rather outside appearances. The "Old" Testament was treated more as an historical document ,than having applicabilty for today (doctrine of dispensationalism) Much of their doctrine is based on the book of Romans ("The Romans Road"). Many Independent Baptist Churches have Pastor's that lord it over the congregation; rather than having a servants heart. Many Pastor's lack personal and corporate responsibility.( However, there is one Independent Baptist pastor in Georgia that is probably the best preacher I have ever heard....he preaches in the style of preachers like Jonathan Edwards, and the Puritan type preachers. He is the exception not the rule)

2) The Southern Baptist Church for the most part is liberal. They do require new members in their denomination to be baptized ( even if you were born again and baptized previously). It's like your not "officially saved" until you're baptized into their denomination. Again you will hear alot of sermons on the "rapture", tithing, and eternal security.....along with the "Romans Road". The SBC has had several "homosexual congregations" (or those who accept the radical homosexaul agenda) disfellowshipped. There appears to be a continued spiritual decline in the SBC, although there are a few churches that are serious about their walk with God.

3) The American Baptist Church is a member of The World Council of Churches ( a marxist organization). They are pro-abortion and pro-homosexuality. There are no fitting words for them....except they do not belong to the Church of the Living God.

It is correct that the Baptists have never considered themselves Protestants. They were not part of the reformation. But with most denominations....whether Church of God, Church of Christ, Baptists, etc. there is an arrogance that they are the true Church.

The real truth is that there are so many denominations because there are parts of the Scripture that people have chosen to dismiss. Such as accepting the "New" Testament as being valid for today, but not the "Old" (thus you have the Church of Christ) Or those who baptize babies.....yet there's no Scripture to back this practice.

Wouldn't it be great if those who love Jesus could just be called Christians....as they were first called in Antioch?

Psalm 119

The first part of your little decree is flawed here :
There is no "Independant Baptist church"  There are independant Baptist churches.  So just because the ones in your area (the south apparently) only seem to have three different types of sermons and are legalistic means nothing but your area has no real good churches.  The whole point of being independant is that there is no central authority.  Every church is INDEPENDANT of the others.  The whole problem with most other denominations is that they have a central authority who "declares" the "official" beliefs of the group.  Not biblical in any way.  One will notice that every church in the NT was dealt with seperately.  They all had their strengths and weaknesses etc.

There is nothing wrong with dispensationalism except a lot of peoples understanding of it.  Apparently yours in incorrect as well.  That is if you believe what you said about it.

Thank you, Saved4Ever.

Yep, Psalm 119, Wouldn't it be great if those who love Jesus could just be called Christians....as they were first called in Antioch?

Psalm 119

I think the wide variety and extent of "Christianity" indicates its "ripeness" for the picking.

With news and events now going the way of all flesh, I'm thinking we are going to get this chance--to "just be called Christians...as they were in Antioch"!!

Those true believers in all branches or varities will show themselves, as the others begin to drift away....

"After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him."  John 6:66

Lord Jesus help us to stand in that Day.

Thanks guys, this is really clearing things up. lol, keep arguing!

Psalm 119- Can you get me some SBC sites that say they are not protestant? In fact, does ANYONE know the SBC site, and if so, what part of the site should I look at to find there part where they say they are not protestant. I’m not denying what anyone is saying, I agree, Baptist are known for saying they are not protestant. I know this, but some friend of mine don’t, and are still clamoring for “credible” info.

Brother love- I’m not trying to ignore you, I just don’t have a clue what your talking about! lol, my tag? What do you mean?

What Group do you belong to, Baptist, Roman Catholic, Church Of God, etc, etc?

Brother Love :)

Charismatic Episcopal. What about you?

 

LOL ;D

Isn't anabaptist a name applied to mennonites and amish? A name applied due to their belief that children are not baptized.