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Rationale For War
By Monte Kuligowski (10/21/04)

If you had just been rescued from a deserted island where you spent the last 15 years isolated from the outside world, you might conclude President Bush had no legitimate rationale for the Iraq War. Seeing the president tied to the stretching rack with Democrats and liberal news reporters working together to crank out an admission that the Iraq War was a mistake, you might conclude that perhaps it was.

Without having any reference point to draw from, you would think John Kerry and friends had always been against the war. You would conclude George Bush must have been the only man on the planet who believed Saddam Hussein was a threat to the United States. You would assume that Bush launched a war without congressional approval, promising he would either find WMD or apologize to the country while resigning in disgrace.

You wouldn’t know Saddam Hussein had been defeated by the United States and her allies in the Gulf War of 1991. You wouldn’t know Hussein signed United Nations Resolution 687, agreeing to allow thorough and ongoing inspections to make certain Iraq had no illegal weapons as a term of surrender. You wouldn’t know Saddam consistently and continuously refused to allow full inspection and monitoring, and thumbed his nose at the resolutions that followed. You wouldn’t know President Clinton tried to bomb Saddam into submission in 1998 with Operation Desert Fox. You wouldn’t know Clinton later wanted to remove Saddam from power, but was distracted with other pressing matters.

You wouldn’t know about 9/11. You wouldn’t know that although Sen. Kerry voted against the Gulf War (which had full U.N. support), he voted for the Iraq War (of which he says we rushed into alone). You wouldn’t know Mr. Kerry relied upon the same intelligence as the administration. You wouldn’t know that the words of Sen. Kerry before the war can be swapped with the words of President Bush without any discrepancies. You wouldn’t know that on Sept. 6, 2002 Kerry said:

“If Saddam Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community’s already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement, even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act.”

You wouldn’t know the U.N. Security Council did indeed fail to act (over a period of 12 years). The inverse being that Saddam failed to comply.

You wouldn’t know that as war clouds were gathering Saddam bought extra time under U.N. Resolution 1441, which gave him over a year to get any illegal weaponry across the Syrian border. Although the Duelfer report confirms that Iraq had developed no new WMD programs, the report also acknowledges and refuses to rule out the possible exodus of any then-existing illegal weapons.

You wouldn’t know that not one member of the Kerry campaign presently appalled over the absence of WMD in Iraq is on the record prior to the war saying that Saddam had no such weapons.

You wouldn’t know Congress authorized the president to use military force against Iraq with the “Iraq War Resolution” by a vote of 296-133 in the House and 77-23 in the Senate, with the yes votes of Senators Kerry and Edwards. “The president is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to (1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and (2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq.”

As further stated in the War Resolution, Sen. Kerry and the other lawmakers felt justified to authorize the use of force because, “The United States is determined to prosecute the war on terrorism,” and “Iraq’s ongoing support for international terrorist groups combined with its development of weapons of mass destruction [are] in direct violation of its obligations under the 1991 cease-fire and other [Resolutions].”

Sen. Kerry also believed, as evinced by his vote, that, “members of al Qaida . . . are known to be in Iraq; Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations that threaten the lives and safety of United States citizens.”

On the day President Bush signed the bipartisan war resolution into law on Oct. 16, 2002, he clearly summed up the country’s rationale for war: Saddam Hussein “had a history of mass murder, of striking other nations without warning, of intense hatred for America and of contempt for the demands of the civilized world.” Per his history of compensating families of Palestinian suicide bombers, the president knew Hussein was promoting terrorism. President Bush also believed that Saddam had biological and chemical weaponry and was actively seeking nuclear weapons. So did the rest of the nation; including Sen. Kerry.

Although no nuclear weapons were found, the Duelfer report confirms that the oil-for-food scandal was part of Saddam’s plan to bypass sanctions/inspections and obtain the same.

Having just returned from your island, maybe you could make sense of the Kerry campaign and old media attempting to force Bush into saying the war was a mistake. But considering that these partisan conspirators know of the above “minor details,” their hypocrisy is simply inexcusable.

Bronzesnake

Facts and Figures
Education
3300 Iraqi schools renovated, or soon to be completed, since the overthrow of Saddam
   
9 Million New math and science textbooks printed and distributed with pro-Saddam propaganda extracted
 
85%  Primary and secondary schools that have re-opened since the overthrow of Saddam
 
159,000  Student desks distributed to Iraqi schools
 
81,735 Teaching kits distributed to Iraqi primary school teachers
 
Human Rights
71% Proportion of Iraqis in a February 2004 survey that said they expected their lives to be even better in a year
 
76,000 New jobs created by the Iraqi National Employment Program
 
600 New judges presently working in Iraqi Courts of Law
 
170 Newspapers currently published in Iraq
 
33% Percentage of Iraqis that receive worldwide information via satellite
 
70 Mosques refurbished by coalition forces
 
Healthcare
$1 Billion Current budget for the Iraqi Ministry of Health; 25 times greater than the $16 million annual budget under Saddam's reign
 
25% Increase in immunization rates among Iraqi children
 
75 Iraqi medical facilities refurbished by the Coalition Provisional Authority
 
700,000 Pregnant Iraqi women received a tetanus toxoid vaccination to improve their pre-natal healthcare
 
Infrastructure
500,000 Average increase in the daily number of oil barrels produced
 
16 Average number of hours of electricity for Iraqi citizens; a 40 percent increase from levels under Saddam
 
20 Million Iraqis of the country's 27 million citizens receive clean water due to new water and sanitation projects
 
1,005,580 Iraqi telephone subscribers; a 20 percent increase from under Saddam
 
Government and Politics
67 Iraqi cities with fully functioning municipalities only four months after the beginning of the war
 
85% Percentage of small Iraqi towns that had fully functioning municipalities only four months after the beginning of the war
 
81 Iraqi women serve on neighborhood and district councils around Baghdad
 
6 Iraqi women appointed as Cabinet-level ministers in the newly-formed Iraqi Interim Government
 
http://www.untoldiraq.org/page.cfm?id=7 (http://www.untoldiraq.org/page.cfm?id=7)

A lot of Good info, thanks


(http://www.sirinet.net/~blkidps/bljpg2.jpg)

It would seem that sincereheart thinks that refurbishing Mosques and giving American money to foreigners is a valid justification for going to war.

Is that all you got out of that?

It is not American money that is doing it. It is Iraq oil that is paying for it. The U. S. just took that money out of the hands of a ruthless tyrant and putt it into the hands of its people.


The point was in how the Iraqee people are benefiting from this.

The question was of justifying this war, so yes.


Well, that was the theory going in, but is hasn't worked out that way, and you are the only one I've spoken to that hasn't realised it.



The point had nothing to do with justifying an invasion, did it.

ROFL! Definitely a male!  ;D
It would seem that reading a woman's mind is not your strong suit!  ;D

You apparently haven't spoken to anyone that knows what is going on then. American money is being used there in the aspects of our troops. It is not being used to improve the lives of the Iraq people (the rebuilding of mosques, hospitals, schools, etc.) Anyone that thinks that have not looked at any facts.


Improving the lives of the Iraqee people by removing them from the hands of an oppresive leader was in fact one of the reasons for the invasion that was given by the Bush administration before the war even started.

Why isn't he invading other places then?

or will he?

That is a possibilty, if it is a plan I am sure that it won't be any time soon. Gotta take care of this one first and build up our troops.

Where will the money for all of it come from -  i mean can you afford it, I beleive someone said that the american economey was already struggling...

The American economy is not as bad as some would make it out to be and it is getting stronger everyday.

As for the rational of the Iraq War.... as I said it was only one of the reasons. There were others.

the only reason i can think of/remember that i was actually told about (I live in the UK see...)

i mean the problem over hear was Tony Blair promised us WMD and we got none (oh for a laugh...go to google type Weapons of mass destruction and press i'm feeling lucky, this is actually VERY old, so sorry if you know it already, (i think you can do french military victories as well))


So thats what got us over hear, sure we got rid of an evil dictator, but they exist in other places....


oh and i just checked Blackeyepeas said it was:


in relation to Kerry saying he would cut back the tax cuts on the rich americans and invest it on education and healthcare

actually just go to the Whatever Means Necessary thread in the Prophecy section

Saddam is/was a weapon of mass distruction!   ;)  And thats exactly what we got.

Grace and Peace!

Saddam was a person, he is capable of what all people are capable of.

"Lesson to a Son

The other day, my nine-year-old son wanted to know why we were at war. My husband looked at our son and then looked at me. My husband and I were in the Army during the Gulf War and we would be honored to serve and defend our country again today. I knew that my husband would give him a good explanation.

My husband thought for a few minutes and then told my son to go stand in our front living room window. He told him:

"Son, stand there and tell me what you see?"

"I see trees and cars and our neighbors houses." he replied.

"OK, now I want you to pretend that our house and our yard is the United States of America and you are President Bush."

Our son giggled and said "OK."

"Now son, I want you to look out the window and pretend that every house and yard on this block is a different country." my husband said.

"OK Dad, I'm pretending."

"Now I want you to stand there and look out the window and see that man come out of his house with his wife and he has her by the hair and is hitting her. You see her bleeding and crying. He hits her in the face, he throws her on the ground, and then he starts to kick her to death. Their children run out and are afraid to stop him, they are crying, they are watching this but do nothing because they are kids and afraid of their father. You see all of this son....what do you do?"

"Dad?"

"What do you do, son?!"

"I call the police, Dad."

"OK. Pretend that the police are the United Nations and they take your call, listen to what you know and saw but they refuse to help. What do you do then son?!"

"Dad, but the police are supposed to help!" My son starts to whine.

"They don't want to son, because they say that it is not their place or your place to get involved and that you should stay out of it," my husband says.

"But Dad...he killed her!!" my son exclaims.

"I know he did...but the police tell you to stay out of it. Now I want you to look out that window and pretend you see our neighbor who you're pretending is Saddam turn around and do the same thing to his children."

"Daddy...he kills them?"

"Yes son, he does. What do you do?"

"Well, if the police don't want to help, I will go and ask my next door neighbor to help me stop him." our son says.

"Son, our next door neighbor sees what is happening and refuses to get involved as well. He refuses to open the door and help you stop him," my husband says.

"But Dad, I NEED help!!! I can't stop him by myself!!"

"WHAT DO YOU DO SON?"

Our son starts to cry.

"OK, no one wants to help you, the man across the street saw you ask for help and saw that no one would help you stop him. He stands taller and puffs out his chest. Guess what he does next son?"

"What Daddy?"

"He walks across the street to the old ladies house and breaks down her door and drags her out, steals all her stuff and sets her house on fire and then...he kills her. He turns around and sees you standing in he window and laughs at you. WHAT DO YOU DO?!!!"

"Daddy..."

"WHAT DO YOU DO?!!!"

Our son is crying and he looks down and he whispers, "I close the blinds, Daddy."

My husband looks at our son with tears in his eyes and asks him... "Why?"

"Because Daddy.....the police are supposed to help...people who need it....and they won't help....You always say that neighbors are supposed to HELP neighbors, but they won't help either...they won't help me stop him...I'm afraid....I can't do it by myself...Daddy.....I can't look out my window and just watch him do all these terrible things and...and.....do nothing...so....I'm just going to close the blinds....so I can't see what he's doing........and I'm going to pretend that it is not happening."

I start to cry.

My husband looks at our nine year old son standing in the window, looking pitiful and ashamed at his answers to my husbands questions and he tells him...."Son"

"Yes, Daddy."

"Open the blinds because that man....he's at your front door..."WHAT DO YOU DO?!!!!"

My son looks at his father, anger and defiance in his eyes. He balls up his tiny fists and looks his father square in the eyes, without hesitation he says: "I DEFEND MY FAMILY DAD!! I'M NOT GONNA LET HIM HURT MOMMY OR MY SISTER, DAD!!! I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM, DAD, I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM!!!!!"

I see a tear roll down my husband's cheek and he
grabs my son to his chest and hugs him tight, and cries..."It's too late to fight him, he's too strong and he's already at YOUR front door son.....you should have stopped him BEFORE he killed his wife. You have to do what's right, even if you have to do it alone, before......it's too late." my husband whispers.

THAT scenario I just gave you is WHY we are at war with Iraq. When good men stand by and let evil happen is the greatest EVIL of all. Our President is doing what is right. We, as a free nation, must understand that this war is a war of humanity. WE must remove this evil man from power so that we can continue to live in a free world where we are not afraid to look out our window and see crimes on humanity. So that my nine-year-old son won't grow up in a world where he feels that if he just "closes" that blinds the atrocities in the world won't affect him."

~from an e-mail

Ok anti-Busher's...... Have at it!  :)

This is a typical appeal to under educated, easily led people. The idea that a third world nation of 26 million like Iraq was a threat to the US is laughable.

Not all people do what WMD's are capable of.  Saddam however did, more than once.

Grace and Peace!

What does that mean?

I thought weapons of mass distruction was pretty self defining.   ???

A weapon that goes boom! - Mass distruction......generally  killing lots of people!   Saddam deffinately went boom a number of times killing large masses of Iraqi's  ;)

Saddam = WMD.

So what? I could name a dozen dictators still in power who have acted the same way. Should we invade them too?

This is a typical response of a pacifist. Are you a pacifist.

Learn from history. Some of the smallest countries were some of the toughest to beat because people sat back and did nothing until that country became quite big.

No, I am a Calvinist, like Stonewall Jackson, and I would have fought just like he did.

You, on the other hand, are brainwashed into thinking that the "Bush Doctrine" of preemption has anything in common with American history or priciples.


Well, since you brought it up, let's have some examples.

Brainwashed I am not. I am an independent. I don't even follow denominational doctrines. Instead I follow Jesus.

Israel is one example. It is and always has been one of the hardest groups to be beat. Yes it was beat numerous times but it keeps coming back.

North Viet Nam, and North Korea were two other such countries. Afhganistan could not be beat by Russia.

Israel gets help from the USA that i know of, as have south korea and vietnam, russia/China was helping north korea, Afghanistan was getting helped by USA

Yes, you are correct and Iraq was also setting up similar ties with other countries for "help". Those ties had not solidified yet when the U.S. went in but they were there in the early stages.

 

Let me put it to you like this....if you had a neighbor that was killing his family members, attacking other neighbors and taking over their homes like a bully, and defying law enforcment in order to continue his ruthlesness.....wouldn't you say its time to take some sort of action to curb unthwarted evil behaviour?.....whether that be removing him from his home/neighborhood, or encouraging civil behaviour by some other means of consequences?

What is your rational for allowing this neighbor to remain?

Grace and Peace!

Tim, with respect, you are describing Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe to a tee. Now tell me what we as Americans are obligated to do about him.

You tell me?

You posed the analogy, don't be coy. We should have kept our noses out of other people's business, in my opinion. Now, think clearly and tell me why we shouldn't go into Zimbabwe. Please give some thought to your answer.

Tim Vaughan


There is a moral obligation as an American and as a Christian to do all that we can to prevent and stop evil.

Do you remember the story of the Good Samaritan? If not:

Luk 10:33  But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
Luk 10:34  And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
Luk 10:35  And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
Luk 10:36  Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
Luk 10:37  And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

Jesus tells us here that it is our obligation to take care of our neighbors. Not and let them die.

AMEN Pastor!!

So what do you think we should do about Zimbabwe, Usbekastan, China etc..?

You are being totally inconsistant. Neither of you would have been for this war if you hadn't been manipulated into supporting it. If the good Samaritan applies to Iraq, then it applies to Kuwait and North Korea.

Yay lets get nuked.... :D

Not. I think that you'd find that as the worlds only superpower america is still not powerful enough to deal with all of them, and once they realise that your going to sort them out your going to get an equally powerfull collbaeration of dictators possibly....

If we are Biblically required to help the people in Iraq free themselves from bad dictators, we are sinning by not removing the North Korean, etc.. dictators.

The example of the good Samaritan to justify invading Iraq is either totally worthless, or has to be taken as a requirement to invade these other countries.

Anyone of even an average intelligence can see this, which is why I use the phrase "Brainwashing".

It is particularly ironic that those murdered, tortured, robbed of everthing in Zimbabwe were White Protestants like many or perhaps most of the people who say the Bible obligates us to help those being oppressed by dictators. But they never say anything at all about helping their own kind. That is because nobody has manipulated them into working up a righteous anger about Zimbabwe.

It took us almost 10 years to do something about Iraq and then only because it was thought by all involved that they were a threat to the U.S. (by all involved I mean kerry, bush and most members of Congress)

As for Zimbabwe and the other situations you have mentioned plus a few that you haven't, I am righteously angered that nothing has been done and I have voiced my opinion on that appropriately with the proper people.

As for the "their own kind" comment, I find that appalling. All mankind is our "own kind", yes, even those with "brainwashed" ideologies or warped conspiracy theories. I shed tears for the dying, the maimed, those lost to Christ, on a daily basis even if they are the "enemy".

May God bless you.

Hmmm....This tells me all I need to know.

Your intent is not to understand or see a point of view, but to rant.  So I say, just get your rant on, because nothing I nor anyone else says will matter really matter.

My opionion....We did the right thing by going into Iraq....Yours....I have been manipulated into accepting the war.   Not sure what grounds you have for telling me what I believe, but I can live with your opinion as easily as I live with my own.  Can you?

Grace and Peace!

Roger, you are a consitant man, and I must appologize for saying you aren't. I radically disagree with your basic premise, and see your thinking on this issue as very dangerous to this Republic, but I admire your consistancy.

Yes, since my view are based in traditional American conservative ideals.

I would resist getting into a war with Syria, NK, Zim, Belarus, etc..I think that if the neocons whipped up emotion against Iran, Syria, or any other small and relatively helpless country you would have been just as enthusiastic to invade those countries. I firmly believe that the fact that Christians had it better under the Ba'athist regime in Iraq than in North Korea wouldn't have influenced you at all.