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 "And the dragon (Satan) was wroth (ANGRY !) with the woman (Church), and went to [make war] with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ", (Revelation 12:17).
 "Those who endeavor to obey [all] the commandments of God (Exodus 20:3-17) will be opposed and derided.
   
    They can stand only in God. In order to endure the trial before them, they must understand the will of God as revealed in His word; they can honor Him only as they have a right conception of His character, government, and purposes, and act in accordance with them. None but those who have fortified the mind with the truths of the Bible will stand through the last great
conflict. [/b]To every soul will come the searching test: Shall I obey God rather than men?

    The decisive hour is even now at hand. Are our feet planted on the rock of God's immutable word?
   
     Are we prepared to stand firm in defense of the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus ?" (Great Controversy, By E.G. White).

Of course.
 Ezekiel 20:20   "And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God".  

Strange that Paul does not share your views of law keeping.

Phi 3:4  Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Phi 3:5  Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Phi 3:6  Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Phi 3:7  But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Phi 3:8  Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

He called his perfection of lawkeeping dung that he might win Christ as his righteousness.   I think a few thumbs up are in order for brother Paul....don't you BL?   ;D

Grace and Peace!

The only problem here is that the woman is not the Church...but Israel.   ;)

Grace and Peace!
 

Once again, leaving out the entire context as usual.

Rom 7:16  If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17  Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18  For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19  For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20  Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21  I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22  For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23  But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25  I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Keep claiming it is through law keeping friend.....the only way is through Christ Jesus, the true Sabbath!

Grace and Peace!

Jesus said: "IF...you love me, keep my commandments", (John 14:15).
Only the people who 'love' Christ, will keep all 10 commandments.

"TWO"Thumbs UP Bro


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The Law at Sinai was the LAW OF MOSES!!! Lol...you just contradicted yourself bud. The Law given at Sinai was for the Children of Israel. No Paul wasn't confused...He was right on the ball. Christ came and fulfilled the law such that we through HIM would have NO condemnation. Get it, Got it? Good. Good day and God Bless

In Christ,
Joshua

Thank you, Jemidon!  :D

1 Timothy 4:12
Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity.

Yer welcome sincere....just putting it like i see it...can't do nothing else. :) anywho...figured i'd send ya a response back telling you that yer welcome...anything else I can do lemme know. and I"ll get on it...God Bless

In His Service,
Joshua

Are you telling me that you don't know the difference betwen the 10 commandments, that Christ Himself wrote out on Mt Sinai.......and, the Law the Moses wrote out ?

Dude...Let me remind you again that the Law at Sinai was given to Moses for the Children of Israel...this was the basic principles that Moses rested upon in order to pass out judgement. He relied on the Law given to him at Sinai (i.e. his Law...) This law given at Sinai was the 10 commandments. These in turn gave moses the basis for writing out the Laws of Israel found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Keep in mind that they all go back tot he Law at Sinai...and i may be stepping out on a limb here, but they all fall under the Law that Paul says that death comes from. Just a thought...I do know the difference...do you?

God Bless

In HIS Service,
Jemidon

P.S. If i havn't reminded you before "THE LAW HAS BEEN ABOLISHED. AS A CHILD OF GOD I'M NOT UNDER THE LAW ANYMORE! I HAVE NO CONDEMNATION ANYMORE BECAUSE THE ONE WHO CAME (JESUS) FULFILLED AND ABOLISHED THE LAW SUCH THAT WE MAY LIVE UNDER GRACE. Get it? Got it? LIVE IT!

Does that include the 7th day Sabbath (4th commandment, which was established in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 2:2,3) ? Do you realize that every one of the 10 commandments are found in the Book of Genesis ? Yes to break any of the commandments is sin, which results in eternal death, (Romans 6:23)Yes, and so does Jesus Christ when he said: "IF..you love me, keep my commandments", (John 14:15).
And God has a people who are loyal to him:
"Here is the patience of the saints...here are they that keep the commandments of God, and have the faith of Jesus", (Revelation 14:12)

God Bless

In HIS Service,
Jemidon

P.S. If i havn't reminded you before "THE LAW HAS BEEN ABOLISHED. AS A CHILD OF GOD I'M NOT UNDER THE LAW ANYMORE! I HAVE NO CONDEMNATION ANYMORE BECAUSE THE ONE WHO CAME (JESUS) FULFILLED AND ABOLISHED THE LAW SUCH THAT WE MAY LIVE UNDER GRACE. Get it? Got it? LIVE IT!

Silver Surfer,

"Yes to break any of the commandments is sin, which results in eternal death, (Romans 6:23)"

You need to read the rest of the verse,

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

This is saying that by the grace of God through Jesus Christ we are saved from that eternal damnation.

Yes, I do agree it is important for us to strive to keep God's Commandments, for Jesus said,

Mat 5:17  Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.


The Bible also tells us:

Rom 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

I place emphasis here on "without the deeds of the law.

Does this mean that once we are saved that we can forget the law and sin as we want and still expect it to go unpunished?

Rom 3:31  Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

If we truly love Jesus Christ we will strive to be more like Him.

Hello all!

Just thought i'd take a little time and write a response.

i'm gonna address three people on this here thread..so bear with me.

Pastor Roger...i appreciate the back up dude. I thank you for putting what has been said over and over into pretty simple terms. I agree with you that it is important for us to strive to keep God's commandments...but as i'm going to remind silver here in a second...it's impossible...it is our Goal...but it won't be achieved while we still have these corrupt bodies of flesh. I reckon i'll put it simple. No one will achieve righteousness while he/she is still alive and in this fleshly body. If my understanding of Scripture is sufficient...then from what I've read...only when 1. We die or 2. we're raptured out will we be transformed..but i could be wrong...please correct me. but the premise i keep trying to explain to silver is that no man can keep all of the commandments. It is simply impossible...so we live under God's Grace which gives us LIFE instead of the Law which gives us death. Am I making any sense...it makes sense to me...but i hope you understand where i'm coming from. and in response to your question on whether or not we can be saved then go on and sin and forget about the law...NO!! LoL. If we are true Born -again Believers...we'll want to keep His commandments...but while we're still in these bodies of sin...we are unable to attain righteousness (perfection).


Now Silver:

I'm not arguing the loyalty to God...not at all. I"m simply stating that just keeping the commandments will not get one to heaven, and we are not under the OT Law any longer...for the 20th time or so. You stepped on thin ice in the other thread silver by saying that Sunday worship is a tool of satan. One you are casting a stumbling block into someone's path and two you are completely disregarding Christ. He is the LORD OF THE SABBATH and in Him we rest. We are to rest in the Creator instead of the creation. We are to rest in the one who created the Sabbath and when we do that we are always resting on the Sabbath because we are resting in CHRIST Himself. So, in essense we aren't breaking that commandment. See our rest comes from Christ, not a specific day of the week. We who worship on Sunday are free to worship on Sunday. I even know some people who worship on Monday, Tuesdays, (My church has evening worship on Wednesday) Thursdays and even fridays. and Saturday ( I can't speak for the rest of the people on here, but we worship God on Saturday too by doing HIS work and evangelizing) So don't hand me that stuff about those who worship on Sunday are being used by satan...that doesn't wash with me friend. I hope God shows you His Truth about this matter...because i've done all I can do at the moment. God Bless

To all others: I apologize if in previous posts i may have sounded like i was being a little harsh....I use caps sometimes to emphasize words and the point i'm trying to make across. Those who personally know me know i don't yell so i don't want you guys to get that impression. It don't do no good to yell if someone can't hear your voice...lol. So i just wanted to get that out because i just thought about it today on the way home from school. "Man I hope they don't think i'm some kinda harsh dude and that all i do is come down on people!" but anyways...i never yell so if you see the words in Capital letters it's just me making a point...God Bless all who read this.

In His Service,
Joshua

Joshua,

You are right to say that "we" cannot attain righteousness. It is Jesus Christ that attained righteousness for us so it is through Him and Him only that we are made righteous.

Phi 3:9  And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

When we accept Jesus Christ as our Saviour we are made righteous through faith in Him. As long as we maintain that faith in Him we maintain that righteousness through Him and by Him.

When we go to heaven we will be transformed (glorified as some people refer to it). At this time there will be no temptation/desire to sin. The danger of "falling away" will be gone.


As to the question here on the Sabbath.

First let's look at what the word Sabbath means.

Sabbath" in Hebrew is Shabbat. Its basic meaning (according to Holladay's lexicon of Biblical Hebrew and the lexicon in back of Strong's exhaustive concordance) is the word cease. It is used, in part, in the following manner:



1. When God "ceased" creating in Gen 2:3
2. The cycle of day and night does not cease, as in Gen 8:22.
3. God has caused shouting to cease, as in Isaiah 16:10.

In each of the above circumstances, ceased is the same word as is translated Shabbat or Sabbath. It can be seen easily that Sabbath is synonymous with such words as cease, rest, stop, etc. It simply means to stop doing something. With this in mind, we conclude that "The Sabbath" is the day of the week that God set aside for cessation of activity--rest. One argument about the "Sabbath" centers around which day it should be observed, by going to church. But going to services is not observing the Sabbath! Observing the Sabbath would be accomplished by cessation of work--rest.

So there is a difference between a day of rest and a day of worship. The Bible does not specify a certain day for worship.


Which day should we worship?

Rom 14:5  One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6  He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Personally every day of the week is a day of worship for me and Saturdays are my day of rest. I do the Lords work everyday of the week, working overtime on Sundays.

In Leviticus 23 it does specify the Sabbath as one of the day of Feasts. A feast as used in the Bible means an appointed time, a summoning, a gathering. Again I refer you back to Romans 14: 5-6.

To keep the law of God to be saved, is impossible. Because in human strenght, we have not the ability to do so., But with God....'all things are possible'.


I contend that Jesus Christ , who was sinless...living within...a born-again person....can also be sinless 'after' conversion:
"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God", (1 John 3:9)  

So you are saying that you are perfect and without sin?

No, I'm saying that Jesus Christ said, to be perfect and live without sin...with MY (Christ's) grace which is enough:
Titus 2:11   "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,  
  2:12   [Teaching us] that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, [in this present world]..."  

Amen!

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
The grace of God teaches us… To live above sin To live separate from the world To live soberly To live righteously To live Godly To live looking for the saviour To live remembering what Christ did To live motivated by the grace of God

Grace is all that God is free to do for you based upon the finished cross work of the Lord Jesus Christ, in his death, burial and resurrection.

Silver Surfer, haven't you been under the law long enough? How would you know if you have never been taught the grace of God?


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Silver Surfer,

Over and over again you do FALSE TEACHING! You are so brain-washed by Ellen G. White that you are completely blind to the most precious truths of the Holy Bible.

Your teaching is completely false. You don't and can't do anything to save yourself. Jesus Christ is a GIFT from God, and the Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross for us was a gift. There are no men of righteousness. There are no men without sin. Further, there are no Christians without sin. It makes me very sad to know that many lost people will be reading your false teaching. It also makes me sad to know that some babes in Christ will be confused with your false teaching.

Here's a little hint for you:  Christians WILL NOT be given perfection or glorified bodies during this short life on earth. Our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, is PERFECT and RIGHTEOUS, but we ARE NOT. Christians are to struggle every day to live Godly lives, but we will fail over and over again during this short life. When we stumble, we have a Lord and Saviour who will forgive us, lift us up, and give us the Grace to try again. Sin does not cancel Salvation. Salvation is a GIFT from God for those who place their trust and faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour.  It is a GIFT, and it involves many beautiful Promises of God to HIS children. God always keeps HIS Promises. A new child of God is "quickened" or translated into the Mighty Hands of Jesus, and no power in Heaven or earth can pluck them out of HIS HAND. A new child of God receives the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit SEALS the heart of God's new child. In fact, the HOLY SPIRIT enters the heart of the new child of God and sets him or her apart as BELONGING TO GOD. No power in Heaven or earth can break the SEAL of the HOLY SPIRIT. The new child of God was bought and paid for by the BLOOD OF JESUS. The new child of God is now a purchased possession of Jesus Christ forever.

There is no installment plan for Salvation, as Salvation is a GIFT from God, full and FREE. No man can pay for it, and no man can earn it. Man can't miss a payment because there is NO PAYMENT. Jesus Christ finished the work on the Cross and paid in FULL WITH HIS BLOOD. A man has nothing to add to the PERFECT SACRIFICE OF JESUS CHRIST on the Cross. We can and should love HIM with all of our heart and live a life of appreciation for HIS GIFT. If we work for HIM as a duty, those works will be burned up and worthless. If we work for HIM in joy and love, HE will accept our work and call it "good". If we don't work for HIM, that would be a poor testimony before men, but God does not take back HIS free GIFT of Salvation. Our Salvation is "not of works" or deeds of the law, rather a GIFT from God. A Christian in a coma is still a Christian. A Christian with Alzheimer's or insanity is still a Christian. A Christian who stumbles and commits a sin is still a Christian. Many have posted the Scripture proofs of what I just said above, but you ignored them.

Romans 5:15  But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Romans 5:16  And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Romans 5:17  For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Romans 5:18  Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Romans 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

2 Corinthians 9:15  Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.

Ephesians 2:4  But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Ephesians 2:5  Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Ephesians 2:6  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Ephesians 2:7  That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Silver Surfer, your teaching is false, and you don't honor the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross with your words. You preach self-righteousness and self-perfection instead of the Cross. You teach works and obedience of the Law instead of the Gospel of the Grace of God. Your teaching is hurting the lost and confusing the babes in Christ. Your teaching will be labeled as FALSE, and some of it will be deleted from Christians Unite.

Silver Surfer, with what you teach, no man would be saved. BUT, what you teach does NOT resemble the Gospel of the Grace of God. With what you teach, no man would ever have any assurance of Salvation, but what you teach is false. You want to teach that Salvation is the work and righteousness of men, but that is FALSE. Salvation is the work and righteousness of Jesus Christ, not men. Our Salvation in Jesus Christ is 100% certain, only because it is NOT our works, obedience of the Law, or our righteousness involved at all. The one sin and you're out doctrine you preach is of the devil, not God. Silver, you most obviously and definitely sin, so under your doctrine Christ would have to be crucified again and again for you to be Saved. However, what you teach is false. Jesus Christ died on the Cross for us, and HIS Sacrifice was perfect.

Silver, you will never find self-righteousness because it doesn't exist. It is far past time for you to yield to the righteousness of Jesus Christ and have 100% assurance of Salvation. Your assurance of Salvation will be in Jesus, not yourself.

Remember that anything you do for God as a duty will be burned up and worthless. If you do something for God in love, joy, and appreciation, God will call it "good". If you spend eternity with Jesus, it will be because of HIS WORK, HIS OBEDIENCE, and HIS SACRIFICE - not yours.

Redemption, forgiveness, sanctification, and Salvation are HIS WORKS - not yours.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Pastor Roger, Brother Love, and Jemidon2004,

AMEN BROTHERS!!

The Gospel of the Grace of God is about Jesus, the Cross, and HIS GIFT GOD has given us. I give thanks that it isn't about my goodness, my righteousness, my works, my deeds, or anything else so unworthy that I may have done.

The obedience of Jesus Christ unto death, HIS SACRIFICE, HIS WORK, and HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS is what gives me 100% assurance of Salvation. That's the only way a man or woman can be saved, and I give thanks for His Unspeakable GIFT. I could never pay for or earn such a GIFT, so I will humbly take His Gift and praise HIM for the rest of my life.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Silver Surfer,

I bear true witness that your teaching is false. I could care less what the dime-a-dozen false prophetess Ellen G. White said. She is your problem. Her teaching was false, and your teaching is false.

(Ephesians 2:4)  But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

(Ephesians 2:5)  Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

(Ephesians 2:6)  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

(Ephesians 2:7)  That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

(Ephesians 2:8)  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

(Ephesians 2:9)  Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Salvation is GOD's gift, love, and work. It had to be a GIFT because no man deserves it and no man can earn it. Throw away Ellen G. White's garbage and read the Holy Bible.

We are still trying to help you, but that doesn't mean that we will allow you to hurt the lost and confuse the babes in Christ. When you start spewing Ellen G. White's garbage, it will be labeled as false, and you will be confronted.

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« on: April 23, 2004, 05:03:39 AM »      

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Thanks for that headsup, bep...


I'd have to agree with 2nd Tim's first post here...

Strange that Paul does not share your views of law keeping.

Phi 3:4  Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Phi 3:5  Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Phi 3:6  Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Phi 3:7  But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Phi 3:8  Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

He called his perfection of lawkeeping dung that he might win Christ as his righteousness.  I think a few thumbs up are in order for brother Paul....don't you BL?  


Ima thinkin' I only have the blood of Jesus that'll make me 'loyal to God'.

AMEN SYMPHONY!!!! 10 Thumbs UP!! for Brother Paul!

I'm positive that the only thing I have to brag about is the Blood of Jesus! ONLY JESUS can set us free from the curse of sin and death!

Love In Christ,
Tom

 I want to point out is that when the Shabbat was given it was given to the Royal Priest Hood, God's servant the Jewish people. Shabbat is intended for the jewish people and not for the gentiles. Even though it is an eternal law that the jewish people have to observe. Christ became our Shabbat for the Gentiles as well as saviour for the jews and the gentile world.
It is not required for non jews (gentiles) to observe shabbat every friday and saturday.

Michael

This topic needs some Word.

First, the commandments of Jesus and ALL the law.

Mat 22:36  Master, which is the great commandment in the Law?
Mat 22:37  Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
Mat 22:38  This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39  And the second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Mat 22:40  On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

Next, the curse of the law.

Gal 3:13  Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, being made a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone having been hanged on a tree");
Gal 3:14  so that the blessing of Abraham might be to the nations in Jesus Christ, and that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

See Duet. Chapter 28 for a listing of the blessings and curses.

One must remember that heaven can be attain to, 'IF' the conditions are met.
  Revelation 3:5   "He that [overcometh], the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life..."

This thread is a good one, I am enoying it, thanks everyone, Not You Silver ;D


"IF" ;D


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The Law of Faith in Jesus Christ has set us free from the curse of sin and death.