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1 The Bible lists six identifying marks of false prophets, any one of which is sufficient for identification: (1) through signs and wonders they lead astray after false gods (Dt. 13:1-4); (2) their prophecies don't come to pass (Dt. 18:20-22); (3) they contradict God's Word (Isa. 8:20); (4) they bear bad fruit (Mt. 7:18-20); (5) men speak well of them (Lk. 6:26); and (6) they deny that Jesus, the one and only Christ, has come once and for all in the flesh (1 Jn. 4:3), thereby denying His sufficiency in all matters of life and godliness (2 Pe. 1:3). Most cults are founded upon false prophecies, which, if pointed out, offer an effective way to open blind eyes and rescue cultists. SDA originated with similar false prophesies about Christ's coming. It began with William Miller's prediction that Christ would return in 1843 (revised to October 22, 1844). Miller admitted his error. However, SDA prophetess Ellen G. White (EGW), who had repeatedly endorsed Miller's prophecy, insisted that Christ had indeed come, but not to earth. Instead, He had entered "the holy of holies" in heaven "to make an atonement for all who are shown to be entitled to its benefits" (The Great Controversy, p. 480).

Number 17 of the "Fundamental Beliefs of Seventh-Day Adventists" states: "The Gift of Prophecy: One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction." Yet EGW made numerous false prophecies: that "Old Jerusalem never would be built up" (Early Writings, p. 75), that she would be alive at the Rapture (Early Writings, pp. 15-16), that Christ would return before slavery was abolished (Early Writings, pp. 35, 276), that Adventists living in 1856 would be alive at the Rapture (Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 3, pp. 131-132), and many more. Nevertheless, SDAs revere this false prophet's writings as if they were Scripture.

2 Nevertheless, SDAs are continuing their efforts to be identified as "evangelical Christians." As an illustration of this effort, SDAs were very prominent at the annual meetings of the Evangelical Theological Society (ETS) held in San Francisco, November 19-21, 1992. They presented themselves in the printed program as the Adventist Theological Society (ATS). During the meetings, they conducted at least eight workshops/seminars open to all the members of the ETS, as well as a general meeting of their own ATS on Saturday morning, November 21st. Likewise, at the 1/97 National Religious Broadcasters Convention, the SDA's "Voice of Prophecy" booth provided books and tapes of their programs, but there was no indication that this was an SDA organization. Christians need to be aware that cult groups like SDA often use the same Christian-sounding terminology, but the meanings of the words have been redefined.

3 Many quotes could be given to prove that EGW taught salvation by works. Here are a few:

(a) "Our acts, our words, even our most secret motives, all have their weight in deciding our destiny ... though ... forgotten by us, they [our works] will bear their testimony to justify or condemn" (TGC, pp. 486-490).

(b) "When any have sins remaining upon the books of record, unrepented of and unforgiven, their names will be blotted out of the book of life ..." (TGC, p. 483).

(c) "Each one of you needs to ... [be] working with your might to redeem the failures of your past life. God has placed you in a world of suffering to prove you, to see if you will be found worthy of the gift of eternal life" (Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 3, p. 530).

4 This teaching of the "Investigative Judgment" is the foundational doctrine and major heresy of Seventh-Day Adventism: that the atonement was not complete on the cross, but was begun in heaven in 1844 and depends upon our works. According to Ellen G. White (EGW), the blood of Christ, instead of making "an atonement for the soul" (Lv. 17:11) and "cleans[ing] us from all sin" (l Jn. 1:7), brought sin into heaven: "

• ur sins are, in fact, transferred to the heavenly sanctuary by the blood of Christ" (Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 4, p. 266). Thus, Christ had to begin the work of cleansing the heavenly sanctuary (of sins His blood had brought there!) through the "Investigative Judgment." EGW declared that "Ministers who would not accept this saving message" were hindering God's work and "The blood of souls is upon them" (Early Writings, p. 234). Millerites who adopted this delusion became Seventh-Day Adventists. The whole concept of the Investigative Judgment is antithetical to the Gospel. Jesus did not wait until 1844 to enter the Holy of Holies in heaven (Heb. 1:3; 6:19–20; 8:1; 9:6–12, 24; 12:2). Neither is He still making an atonement in heaven (Heb. 9:25–26; 10:11–14). The Investigative Judgment proposes to "vindicate the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus," by showing they were "loyal," "penitent," and "faithful" commandment keepers. This is an outrage. God's justice in saving sinners is vindicated by Christ's death on the cross, period (Rom. 3:24–26).

5 The SDA Church made this statement in their Ministry magazine of October 1981, and have never retracted it -- "We believe the revelation and inspiration of both the Bible and Ellen White's writings to be of equal quality. The superintendence of the Holy Spirit was just as careful and thorough in one case as in the other" (June 1997, The Baptist Challenge).  This sounds like SDAs also believe that Mrs. White is inerrant.

Seventh-Day Adventism
Cult?

Seventh-Day Adventism (SDA) arose from the aftermath of the Adventist movement of the mid-1800s. "Seventh-day" refers to the focus on sabbath, or Saturday worship. "Adventist" refers to the SDA belief that they are the fulfillment of prophecies pertaining to the latter days remnant and the coming of Christ. The world was predicted to end in 1844 with the Second Coming of Christ, by William Miller, a New England Baptist itinerant preacher. Miller's followers condemned all the churches of the day as apostate and "Babylon," and warned Christians to come out of them. A great many did, and the "adventist" movement was born and grew rapidly (Melton, J. Gordon, Encyclopedia of American Religions, Vol. 2, pp. 21–22).

Christ did not appear in 1844. After this "Great Disappointment," one "little flock" still insisted the date of their original predictions had been correct. They decided the event marked by 1844 was not the Second Coming, but the entrance of Christ into the Holy of Holies in the Heavenly Sanctuary. There, they said, He began the "Investigative Judgment." (See #6 below.) This doctrine was received and endorsed by Ellen G. White (Ibid., p. 680).

From 1844 to 1851, the group taught the "shut door" doctrine, based on Jesus' parable of the ten virgins. Anyone who had not accepted the Adventist message by the time Jesus entered the Holy of Holies was to be shut out permanently, as were the five foolish virgins. Cut off from the Bridegroom, they could not join the Adventists or have any hope of eternal life. Ellen White not only approved and taught this doctrine, but her first vision experience (she claimed over 2,000 visions) was largely responsible for its being received by the Adventist group (Brinsmead, Robert, D., Judged by the Gospel: A Review of Adventism, pp. 130–133).

By 1846, the group had adopted the Seventh-Day Baptists' view that the Saturday Sabbath must be observed by Christians. A highly elevated form of this doctrine, together with the doctrine of the Investigative Judgment, became the hallmarks of Seventh-Day Adventism. In 1850, James and Ellen White began publishing a magazine, The Review & Herald, to disseminate Adventist and Sabbatarian doctrines. This helped many of the remaining "Millerites" to coalesce into a distinctive body, which adopted the name of Seventh-Day Adventist Church in 1860, and formally incorporated in 1863, with approximately 3,500 members in 125 congregations (Encyclopedia of American Religion, Vol. 2, p. 681).

Ellen G. White (1827-1915) never held official title as the head of the SDA church, but was one of its founders and acknowledged spiritual leader. She rather disingenuously declined to claim the title of "prophet," calling herself a "messenger" instead (P.G. Damsteegt, et al., Seventh-day Adventists Believe … A Biblical Exposition of 27 Fundamental Doctrines, 1988, p. 224). But she claimed to have the "spirit of prophecy," and that her messages were direct from God for the guidance and instruction of the church. With her knowledge and consent, others called her a prophet and an inspired commentator of Scripture1, and even "the Spirit of Prophecy" (Maurice Barnett, Ellen G. White & Inspiration, pp. 5–17). Having only a third grade education, Ellen White said for years she was unable to read, bolstering the claim that her beautiful prose was inspired by God. However, it has been discovered that she not only read, but plagiarized other Christian authors throughout virtually all her writings. The sad facts of this matter have been thoroughly and indisputably established in several books. (e.g., see Walter Rea, The White Lie; and Judged by the Gospel, pp. 361–383).

As of year-end 1999, the SDA church claimed more than 10.9 million members worldwide in 46,700 churches; there are more than 900,000 Adventists in the U.S. and Canada (making the SDA one of the fastest growing "churches" in the world -- membership up over 10% in 1999). While headquartered in Washington, D.C., SDA employment worldwide totals nearly 166,000, not including 13,815 ordained ministers. (Contributions in 1999 totaled $1.6 billion.) SDAs claim to be working in 725 languages and over 1,000 dialects. They have a large investment in publishing and education -- they operate 56 publishing houses and support 549 medical units (696 including 117 nursing homes and retirement centers and 30 orphanages); and 5,846 primary and secondary schools, colleges, and universities (with total enrollment of over a million students). They also broadcast over Adventist World Radio more than 1,000 hours per week of programming in more than 40 languages from 18 transmitters in seven international locations, and have almost 13  million students enrolled in its more than 110,000 "Sabbath Schools" (11/2001, SDA Internet web site). (The SDA church also publishes two of their own Bible "translations": The Study Bible and The Clear Word Bible.)

SDA is organized as a representative democracy. Lower echelons elect representatives to higher units; determination and administration of policy and enforcement of doctrinal orthodoxy is imposed from the top down. President and Executive Committee of General Conference are standing chief administrative offices. Lower administrative units are the General Conference, Divisions (over continents), Union Conferences, local Conferences, and congregations.

In the late 1950s, cult expert Walter Martin, founder of the Christian Research Institute, in collaboration with neo-evangelical Donald Barnhouse, made an extensive investigation of the teachings (doctrines) of Seventh-Day Adventism. Their purpose was to determine whether to classify SDA as part of the evangelical community, or to go along with the majority of evangelicals and treat SDAs as cult members (thereby requiring evangelicals to exercise Biblical separation). (In the 1955 edition of The Kingdom of the Cults, Martin originally did classify SDA as cultic.) Martin and Barnhouse concluded that SDA was within the bounds of Christian orthodoxy. Walter Martin, in his article in the 12/19/60 Christianity Today, said: "That Adventists should be recognized as Christians and that fellowship should be extended to them we do not deny" (p. 15).

Among those adamantly opposing that conclusion was Biblical scholar Dr. John Whitcomb, Jr., then of Grace Theological Seminary. Detailed below is Whitcomb's reasoning for his classification of SDA as a [anti-assurance, Sabbath-keeping, Law-enslaving] cult

1. Source of Authority. Ellen G. White claimed to be, "a lesser light to lead men and women to the greater light." The official SDA Questions on Doctrine (Q.D.) states that, "the Holy Spirit opened to her mind important events and called her to give certain instructions for these last days, and inasmuch as these instructions, in our understanding, are in harmony with the Word of God, which Word alone is able to make us wise unto salvation, we as a denomination accept them as inspired counsels from the Lord" (Q.D., p. 93). (Emphasis added.) Mrs. White claimed to have received more than 3,000 "inspired counsels from the Lord" (i.e., visions) between 1844 and 1868. (From these "visions," she produced over 100,000 handwritten manuscript pages from which were published 54 books!) Therefore, SDAs have a new source of authority in their lives -- according to SDA's dogma, if an SDA does not accept Mrs. White as infallible, they have no salvation!

2. Mankind. Seventh-Day Adventists do not believe that the whole man or any part of him is inherently "immortal" (Q.D., p. 518). SDAs believe in "soul sleep" for the saved (i.e., no conscious existence from the time of death until the resurrection), and annihilation for the wicked (i.e., the body and soul are destroyed at death rather than experiencing everlasting torment). How, then, can one get to heaven?: SDAs believe that one can have immortality only on the condition that he comes to Christ through Ellen G. White; i.e., a works program, following salvation by grace with light of revelation through Ellen G. White as the infallible guide to Holy Scripture, apart from which one cannot have immortality.3 Then, at resurrection day, the body will be re-created (necessary because of soul sleep) for all those who believe in White's guidance and teachings (while non-SDAs will remain in "soul sleep" forever; i.e., will cease to exist [annihilated] and will not suffer everlasting torment).

3. Christ. Mrs. White: "Christ took upon His sinless nature our sinful nature ... Christ took human nature and bore the infirmities and degeneracy of the race. He took our nature and its deteriorating condition" (Q.D., pp. 654-656) (cf. Jn. 14:30). According to SDA, then, Christ acquired a sinful nature! Of course, if this could have been so, there could have been no sinless sacrifice, no hope for sinners, and no Savior.

4. Atonement. "Now, while our great High Priest is making the atonement for us, we should seek to become perfect in Christ" (E.G. White, The Great Controversy [TGC], 1911, p. 623; TGC has since been retitled and published as America in Prophecy, 1988). SDA teaches that, though saved by grace, we are kept by the Law (i.e., "partial atonement"). Therefore, one must keep Old Testament dietary and ceremonial laws, paying particular attention to keep the Saturday Sabbath and the Ten Commandments, and most importantly, making sure to faithfully pay the tithe.

Even when speaking of being saved by the righteousness of Christ, Adventist writers refer to imparted righteousness, seldom to the Biblical concept of imputed righteousness. Calling it "Christ's righteousness," while insisting on the believer's perfection of character as a prerequisite to salvation, is at worst a thinly veiled works salvation, or at best an attempt to mix grace and works, something the Bible says is impossible to do (Rom. 11:6). Mrs. White's words are crystal clear -- one will not be forgiven until all sins are eradicated from one's life and one's character is perfected. Precisely the same heresy is found (besides many others) in Mormonism. It is not the salvation by grace alone through faith alone offered in the Bible.

5. Baptism. "… Christ made it clear that He required baptism of those who wished to become part of His church, His spiritual kingdom"; "In baptism believers enter into the passion experience of our Lord"; "… aptism also marks [a] person's entrance into Christ's spiritual kingdom. … it unites the new believer to Christ.… Through baptism the Lord adds the new disciples to the body of believers -- His body, the church.… Then they are members of God's family" (SDAs Believe …, pp. 182, 184, 187).

6. The Investigative Judgment. According to SDA theology, beginning on October 22, 1844, Christ entered upon the "judgment phase" of His ministry, whereby He blots out sin: [The SDA doctrine of the "Investigative Judgment" rests on Ellen G. White's claimed revelation that Christ entered the heavenly Holy of Holies, not at His ascension, but in 1844, wherein He then began to investigate the records of human works (TGC, pp. 362-373) (cf. Heb. 9).] "When Christ, by virtue of His own blood, removes the sins of His people from the heavenly sanctuary at the close of His ministration, He will place them upon Satan, who, in the execution of the judgment, must bear the final penalty" (TGC, p. 422). Satan, thereby, becomes the scapegoat of Leviticus 16. This lack of clear distinction between the forgiveness of sins and the blotting out of sins, makes it impossible for anyone to know, even in the hour of his death, whether he is saved or not. (SDAs are not "allowed" to experience assurance of salvation, because then there would be no pressure on them to keep the Old Testament law, as interpreted by Ellen G. White, and especially no pressure to pay the tithe.) Moreover, the concept that the sins of all men are to be laid on Satan, assigns to Satan an indispensable role in the blotting out of sin, thus nullifying the all-sufficiency of the finished work of Christ. [When Jesus said on the cross, "It is finished," i.e. completed, paid in full, it cannot be that there is yet another salvation event more than 1,800 years later, just as essential to salvation as Christ's death on the cross, in which one must believe in order to be saved. This is clearly "another gospel" (Gal. 1:6–9).]4

The "Investigative Judgment" and the "Scapegoat Theory of the Atonement" are, by themselves, so non-Biblical as to contradict Galatians 1:8-9. It is "another gospel," about which the Apostle Paul wrote, "let such be anathema" (i.e., cursed/condemned). Yet according to Ellen White, one must believe this doctrine to be saved:

Those who would share the benefits of the Savior's mediation should permit nothing to interfere with their duty to perfect holiness in the fear of God … The subject of the sanctuary and the Investigative Judgment should be clearly understood by the people of God. All need a knowledge for themselves of the position [in the Holy of Holies] and work [Investigative Judgment] of their great High Priest. Otherwise it will be impossible for them to exercise the faith which is essential at this time or to occupy the position which God designs for them to fill. Every individual has a soul to save or to lose. Each has a case pending at the bar of God … All who have received the light on these subjects are to bear testimony of the great truths which God has committed to them. The sanctuary in heaven is the very center of Christ's work in behalf of men … It is of the utmost importance that all should thoroughly investigate these subjects … The intercession of Christ in man's behalf in the sanctuary above is as essential to the plan of salvation as was His death upon a cross. By His death He began that work which after his resurrection He ascended to complete in Heaven" (TGC, pp. 488–89; emphasis added).

7. The Sabbath. "In the last days, the Sabbath test will be made plain. When this time comes, anyone who does not keep the Sabbath will receive the mark of the beast and will be kept from heaven" (TGC, p. 449); "… [T]he divine institution of the Sabbath is to be restored … The delivering of this message will precipitate a conflict that will involve the whole world. The central issue will be obedience to God's law and the observance of the Sabbath. … Those who reject it will eventually receive the mark of the beast" (TGC, pp. 262–63). In one of her most revered works, Ellen White wrote that Sabbath observance would be the "line of distinction" in the "final test" that will separate God's end-time people who "receive the seal of God" and are saved, from those who "receive the mark of the beast" (The Great Controversy Between Christ and Satan, p. 605). Describing a supposed vision direct from God, Ellen White wrote, "I saw that the Holy Sabbath is, and will be, the separating wall between the true Israel of God and unbelievers" (Early Writings, p. 33; emphasis added). She also wrote of some Adventists failing to understand that "Sabbath … observance was of sufficient importance to draw a line between the people of God and unbelievers" (Ibid., p. 85).

SDAs have, thereby, made Sabbath-keeping a criterion for a personal relationship with the Lord -- even to the extent of one's salvation! Why? Because, according to SDAs, we are all to be under strict adherence to Old Testament Law, including the Ten Commandments, of which the fourth one says, "keep the Sabbath." (This Sabbath-keeping requirement was supposedly confirmed in a vision received by Ellen G. White, rather than by study of the Bible.) SDAs believe that "Sunday-keeping" will be the mark of the beast in the future.

8. Ellen G. White, the Prophet. Many rank-and-file SDA members deny that their organization any longer decrees Ellen G. White a God-inspired prophet. Yet in SDA official publications, the SDA church continues to defend Ellen White legends, and maintain there was no difference in the degree of inspiration she received from that received by Bible writers (Review & Herald, 4 October 1928, p. 11; "Source of Final Appeal," Adventist Review, 3 June 1971, pp. 4–6; G. A. Irwin, Mark of the Beast, p. 1; "The Inspiration and Authority of the Ellen G. White Writings," Adventist Review, 15 July 1982, p. 3; Ministry, October 1981, p. 8 (5); see also, Judged by the Gospel, pp. 125–130). And in the SDA June 2000, General Conference, the church voted to more aggressively affirm and support the "Spirit of Prophecy through the ministry of Ellen White" (Adventist Today, [online: July 2000]).

Now then, this is not an attack on you SS. This is to show others, how you support your C&P posts, bu E. G. White.

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/sda/adventi.htm

DreamWeaver,

Brother, it makes me very sad to know that some Christians are trapped in SDA prisons. Jesus unlocked the doors to their Ellen G. White made prison cells at the Cross. Those who love Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour are free in Jesus. Jesus already paid the price in full to set the captives free. They simply need to know the cells are unlocked and walk out. Those who wish to remain captive need to ignore the Prison Warden, Ellen G. White, and yield themselves to freedom in Jesus. Ellen G. White was just another dime-a-dozen false prophet/prophetess.

To our SDA friends here who may have Jesus Christ as the core of your lives, you haven't yet experienced the joy of being in Jesus. I say this in love, just as DreamWeaver did.

Love In Christ,
Tom

"TWO"THumbs UP Bro


Good info




Remember Eve did not care what God said... she gave into her passions.

(http://www.sirinet.net/~blkidps/blgif1.gif)

Bumping for our Seventh-day Adventists, on the forum.  :'(

I have to agree with Brother Tom's post. It is a sad thing indeed for people to be misguided and to place themselves back under the law. The Galations were being duped in this same manner but as with many people they will not learn from others mistakes and insist on following false prophets (in this case a false prophetess).

Brothers,

I can't believe how many times this poor old dead horse has been beaten. I was just thinking about how simple this controversy really is, yet it is only a controversy for those who has chosen to follow a false prophetess.

1 - A portion of those following the false prophetess go so far as to make themselves a CULT. The CULT portion teaches that failure to observe the Old Testament Sabbath is the Mark of the Beast. Keeping the Sabbath is actually taught as the sign and Seal of God. This is gross error and near blasphemy, just like many other teachings of Ellen G. White. Let's boil this down to something simple and see how foolish and FALSE this teaching really is:  regard a day, and the regarding of that day will be the sign and Seal, indicating that person is saved. This is ridiculous and is an insult to GOD. The hearts of Saved people are SEALED with the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD. God knows the heart of a believer because God the Holy Spirit is in the heart of the believer. So, the TRUTH is a far cry and bears no resemblance to the CULT teaching of "regard a day, and the regarding of that day will be the sign and Seal, indicating that person is saved.

2 - Salvation is belief and faith in JESUS CHRIST as Lord and Saviour. There is no other way to be saved, regardless of how many laws someone keeps or how many good deeds they do. The Old Testament Sabbath was a shadow of what was yet to come. The REALITY of that shadow was and is JESUS CHRIST. JESUS CHRIST is REAL, and HE is not a day. Comparing JESUS CHRIST to a day would be and is an insult to GOD. JESUS CHRIST is our SABBATH and believers will REST in HIM for eternity. JESUS CHRIST is the LORD over all, including ALL DAYS, ALL HOURS, ALL MINUTES, AND ALL SECONDS. Those who belong to JESUS CHRIST have hearts SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD. No power in the universe can break the SEAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, and this HOLY SEAL should never be compared to Mosaic Law, man-made doctrines, and especially teachings of a FALSE PROPHETESS. Now, let's boil this down to something real simple so we can all see and understand why the Gospel of the Grace of God is simple enough for a child to understand. Saved people regard a REAL and LIVING Lord and Saviour, JESUS CHRIST, on ALL DAYS, and a SEAL WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD is on their hearts.


1 - regard a day, and the regarding of that day will be the sign and Seal, indicating that person is saved.

2 - regard a REAL and LIVING Lord and Saviour, JESUS CHRIST, on ALL DAYS, and a SEAL WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD is on their hearts.



Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Timothy 6:3-5 NASB  If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.

Matthew 22:36-40  NASB  "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' "This is the great and foremost commandment. "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

Colossians 2:8-17  NASB  See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him. Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day -- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

>Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day -- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

This is a poor translation on a number of grounds.

1) It has been noted that the Greek "brosei kai en posei" are "action nouns" and should be translated as "in eating and in drinking".   There are no drink laws so the text is not talking about someone being judged by what they were drinking.
2) The Greek "en merei" that is translated as "in respect to" actually means "in part of" as older English translations and scholars will tell you in their commentaries.
3) The Greek word "heorte" translated here as "festival" actually means "feast".  It has been noted that in the KJV it translates this word correctly everywhere but here.
4) The word "a" before "Sabbath day" is supplied and obscures the fact that the Greek here is in the plural.  After having looked at all the texts that are relevant to this verse (I spent three years and looked at about 250 sources: web sites, commentaries and lexicons) the word "sabbaths" here refers to the day of Atonement and the feast of Trumpets--both are days of fasting and so could not be included under the word "feast".
5) The last phrase would more literally and correctly be translated as "but the  body of Christ".  It has been noted that this is the positive counter to "let no man judge".

In short, this verse does not condemn keeping the seventh-day Sabbath because it isn't even in view here. Secondly, the believers at Colossae were being judged by outsiders for something they were doing: "eating and drinking" on the days that are then mentioned.  The ascetic critics were trying to convince the believers that they should deny their bodies and fast on the days that are mentioned if they wanted to have a closer experience with God.  Paul wrote showing that the all-sufficiency of Christ exceeds all man-made rules and regulations.

It is obvious that you did not read the rest of the above posts. These teachings are against scripture and as such will not be allowed on Christians Unite.

If I am understanding you correctly I am truly shocked!

All I did is refer to the Greek text that Paul wrote and show how one translation on two verses messed up--are you saying that's against the rules?  Don't all pastors show their congregations where translators (being human) made a mistake?

If I haven't misunderstood you please show me the specific rule I violated and exactly how I violated it so I don't do it again.

Your post is clearly in support of the teachings of the sabbath keeping an E.G. White teaching. It is a misconstrued version of the meanings of the verse that you mentioned.

I think I see where the misunderstanding has come in.

You will note that I never referred to any of EGW's books; I never refer to any of EGW's books when dealing with Scripture (her work is more homelitical in nature while mine is exegetical).

In looking at the meaning of these two verses I spent three years and looked at about 250 web pages, commentaries and lexicons to understand what they said (would you like a copy of my bibliography?).

My understanding of these two verses is solidly based on scholarship of the highest order.  In fact, one gentleman who was working on his doctorate on the entire book of Colossians said that he felt I was "the only one who had it right".

If I am wrong on any point I heartily welcome having you present the evidence (maybe a different thread or via email?) where I am in error and then I'll make the necessary corrections.

No I don't want your bibliography. As for the evidence it has already been presented here many times in this thread and in others on this subject. It is not a debateable subject here or in email.

Hello DJConklin,

Just bluntly, nobody here would be interested if you spent several lifetimes in trying to justify a false doctrine given by a false prophetess in the 1800s. The amount of time you spent is not material, as the end result is still false. We have tried to be kind to followers of Ellen G. White, and the result was the spouting of more weird and wild doctrine about the Mark of the Beast being people going to church on Sunday. It accomplished nothing but divisions between Brothers and Sisters in Christ and disruption on the forum.

We have several lengthy debate threads on the forum already, and we could really care less what day of the week you go to church. If you want to talk about JESUS, that's fine. If you want to preach the one-track mind false doctrine of false prophetess Ellen G. White, you can do that somewhere other than here. It's really just as simple as that - go preach it somewhere other than here.

Moderator

I understand completely.  Could you direct me to where Col. 2:16-17 has been examined?  I'd love to see what evidence was brought forward.

Apparently I wasn't very clear in my previous posts. Allow me to try again.

1) I do NOT use Ellen G. White on ANY Biblical text.
2) I did NOT bring up Ellen G. White.
3) My original post was based solely on the Greek that Paul wrote. I wanted to have a dialogue on that text alone.  I can understand why some people would not want to look too closely at it--several web sites that I contacted disappeared shortly afterwards.
4) I have no evidence that Ellen G. White even knew koine Greek; I doubt it very highly.
5) I didn't bring up any of the items you mentioned in the above.
6) I never even checked to see what Ellen G. White wrote about Col. 2:16-7 lest anyone assume that I was subconsciously influenced by what she wrote.

So, please let's not bring up Ellen G. White again.  I didn't and I don't want to.

On second thought, given the title of thread, perhaps we should look closer at Ellen G. White. Would you like to try the plagiarism claim?

There is no plagiarism claim, by me. This just goes to show, you didn't really read the thread. Proper credit was given to the correct author back in post #3. So I'll post it here for you djconklin. http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/sda/adventi.htm

I'll put it more simply for you. No one here wants to hear your teachings on the Sabbath. As you were told

Hello djconklin,

Apparently I wasn't very clear in my previous posts. Allow me to try again. Nobody here cares what day of the week that you go to church. Go whatever day you choose, change the day each week, or go every day, and nobody cares unless you want to condemn someone else for the day that they go to church. That won't be done here, so the day of the week is no longer in contention, nor will you make it in contention here. So, now this is a moot issue.


Is this some sort of a threat? That's certainly what it appears to be. We're not scared at all, not in the slightest. People who make threats here against any member or moderator "disappear shortly afterwards", in your words. They are simply banned as trouble-makers, and there is ZERO concern given to their threats. We could really care less what you want to do, but you will obey the forum rules AND you will explain what you mean by your apparent THREAT!


Now you're making yourself a laughing stock. I have no idea what you're talking about, but please do try the plagiarism claim, JUST NOT HERE! I assume that you're going to report someone to the teacher.  ;D  ;D  ;D  ROFL  Go try whatever you want - JUST NOT HERE! If you need the telephone number for the Interpol or the United Nations, just let me know.  ;D  ;D  ;D  ROFL

I hope this post clears everything up for you, and YOU SHOULD DEFINITELY CONSIDER THIS TO BE A WARNING. It's time for you to read the forum rules. You will not be allowed to cause trouble here, disrupt our fellowship, preach doctrines that are contrary to the Holy Bible, and you certainly won't be allowed to THREATEN anyone here.

So, it is now up to you whether you will be here beyond your last post or you disappear.

Moderator

Bumping for our Seventh-day Adventists, on the forum.

Hello Dreamweaver,

Brother, it would really be nice if the Ellen G. White slaves who come here would read this entire thread, take notes, and carefully study the other threads on Christians Unite that clearly identify Ellen G. White as a FALSE PROPHETESS who taught LIES AND ACCURSED DOCTRINES THAT ARE CONTRARY TO THE HOLY BIBLE.

The absolute proof of Ellen G. White's lies, deceptions, false prophecy, made up doctrines, and stolen materials is in several heavily documented threads here. BUT, the Ellen G. White slaves are apparently blind to the truth, and that's what makes them her slaves. Plainly and simply, Ellen G. White founded a cult and brainwashed her followers so thoroughly that they are still blind to the truth today. She simply stole material she liked from various authors, called the material her own, and made up the rest. All offerings and money she was given represent FRAUD on her part, so she was little more than a common criminal. She taught many prophecies that never came to pass, so she was also a FALSE PROPHETESS. She certainly wasn't a messenger or prophetess of GOD because messengers and prophets of GOD ALWAYS tell the TRUTH and what they say comes to PASS. SO, she was either working for herself or for the devil. It just doesn't get more simply than that.

The simple and blunt brief above is supported by massive amounts of documentation and evidence. Much of the documentation and evidence was provided by the founder of the false cult, Ellen G. White. She lived and died in the 1800s, but her false doctrines survived and are still being taught today. It should be very simple to understand why Christians today have no desire to hear the lies and false doctrines again.

For the benefit of those who haven't heard the lies and false doctrines of Ellen G. White, I'll summarize the main message for you here. It will also save a lot of time for those who are determined to preach it here. So, everything you need to know about the FALSE DOCTRINE is in blue below:

The Sabbath is on Saturday and you must keep it to be saved. If you go to church on Sunday, you have taken the mark of the beast and are on your way to hell.

So, there it is folks, all plain, blunt, and simple, BUT the message in blue above is most obviously FALSE and a LIE. Most new Christians can do a very simple Bible study that reveals the TRUTH. First and most simple:  we don't live under the Law of Moses, rather we live under the GRACE OF GOD. Nobody has ever been saved by obeying the Law of Moses. We are saved by putting our faith in JESUS CHRIST and making HIM the LORD over our lives. THE LAW WAS THE CURSE OF SIN AND DEATH! THE LAW OF FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST HAS SET US FREE FROM THE CURSE OF SIN AND DEATH.

Matthew 22:36-40  NASB  "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' "This is the great and foremost commandment. "The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

Colossians 2:8-17  NASB  See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him. Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day -- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

1 Timothy 6:3-5 NASB  If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 2:8-10 NASB  For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.