ChristiansUnite Forums

"Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord", (Malachi 3:6).

The study in the Old Testament (1 Kings 16:30.....18:39) reveals why the Message of the Prophet Elijah must come again...just before Christ returns to earth !

The modern Christian world, is in the same place that Israel of old was...do you know the history of that time ?

 I believe he's one of the two witnesses from Revelation.

Bronzesnake

I agree BRNZ, I believe Moses is the other witness.

Just remember, when Christ comes again, those who are breaking God's commandments, 'will be destroyed, by the brightness of his coming', (2 Thessaloinans 2:8).

I will be in Heaven You should be praying

<:)))><

Just remember....God will never let anyone into heaven who commits any known sin against him....such as breaking the 4th commandment.

"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the Tree of Life, and may enter in through the Gates of the City", (Revelation 22:14)

 Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 Bronzesnake

And how sad..that no person, who attends Sunday worship services understands that fact !

Sunday keepers resisits the truth, that Jesus spoke !
They deny that he is the way, by their lifestlyes.

"Not everyone that says to me, Lord, Lord shall enter the Kingdom of heaven, BUT HE...that does the will of my Father in heaven..", (Matthew 7:21).

I'm  afraid that I must disagree.  You must see how Christ understood that OT passage.  
  He talks about it in Matthew 17:11-13, "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.  But I say unto you, that Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they have listed.  Likewise also shall the Son of man suffer of them.  Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist."

John the Baptist was the fulfillment of the prophecy about Elijah.  That is how CHRIST Himself interpreted it, and I dare not take another conclusion.

Joel

Nice to see you back little brother!

Nah.  Gotta be Enoch.  "It's appointed unto man once to die, and after that the judgment."  Neither Elijah nor Enoch died...yet.  Speculation, but a worthy one I think.

Enoch is a olive tree?

And Moses is an olive tree.... I learn something new here all the time... :P

 Huh??? I go to Church on Sunday, as do many others right here on this site...what are you talking about? Surely there are "some" church goers who do not really believe - people go to church for many different reasons, and not all are born again. You say...

 "how sad..that no person, who attends Sunday worship services understands that fact !"  ??? ??? ???

 That's ridiculous my friend!

Bronzesnake

Brother, you are right - it is ridiculous. You and I have both been deprived of the detailed study of the writings of Prophetess Ellen G. White. Never mind that her prophecies didn't come true. She died in the late 1800's, but her edicts and instructions are still to be followed. Never mind what the Holy Bible states about the completed work of Jesus Christ at the CROSS OF CALVARY. Never mind that BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS can and do rest in JESUS 24 hours a day - 7 days a week. Never mind that we can pray any time we wish without the need of a Levitical Priest. Never mind that our Lord and Saviour is with us in every step of our WALK IN HIM. Never mind that we can yield to HIS PURPOSE and make our fellowship IN HIM and WITH HIM the core of every minute, hour, and day.

In short, never mind any of our greatest TREASURES IN JESUS - you must go to church on Saturday. NOT!!!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ex 20:8-10

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
KJV


  Silver do you labour 6 days? And in those 6 days you do ALL thy work, nothing is left undone correct?  Surly you would never cause a 'stranger' to labour... Like the guy who works so the computers can be on line or the sanatation guy when you use water. or the folks at the electric company no lights, hair driers etc. on in your home from sundown to Friday to sundown Saturday?
 
 

The 2 witnesses are: The Law and the testimony.
"To the Law and to the tesimony, is they speak not accirduing to this word, it is because thee is no light in them", (Isaiah 8:20).

This Bible verse is the test ...whereby every pastor, every prophet, every person is tested as to who has the truth of God.

Revelation 12:17 ...tells us that Satan goes to make ...WAR...against those who keep the commandments of God, and have the tesimony...of Jesus Christ.

What I don't get done, I leave til Sunday or Monday.
Most people don't work the weekends anyway.

I'm a Christian, and I love the Lord, so....I do as he asks me, as Jesus said:
"IF..you love me, keep my commandments", (John 14:15).


The true Christian can always pass the Bible test:
""To the Law and to the testimony, if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them", (Isaiah 8:20).


God identifies his people:
"Here is the patience of the saints...here are they that keep the commandments of God, and have the faith of Jesus ", (Revelation 14:12).
 

Silver Surfer,

Here's a Bible Test for you:

Is Jesus Christ Almighty God?

Easy question (Yes, No, Why?).

Tom

Yes, Because Jesus is the creator of this world and the universe.
And, he is the re-creator of men, giving them the born-again experince to become new creatures in Christ, enabling them to living a sinless lifestyle, in preparation for the Kingdom of heaven.

Well, I would say that you did fair on the important part of the test. Inquiring minds will wish to know if you are one of those people who think they live in perfection without sin.

If so, this would represent another part of the Holy Bible that you either ignore, disbelieve, or are confused with beyond measure. You would also be completely unique and be Jesus Christ, the ONLY ONE who ever walked this earth in sinless perfection.

UM?? - I'm positive that you are NOT Jesus Christ. You deny the catching up (RAPTURE) of HIS CHURCH, the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. You also appear to be TRYING????? to live under the law, ignoring the purpose and GIFT of Jesus Christ on the CROSS. That's why I asked you about WHO Jesus Christ is.

Let's see if you can do a little bit better on Bible Test #2. It's just as easy as the first test.

What are the commandments of Jesus Christ? List them please so we can all understand some of your other posts here.

Tom

Well, I would say that you did fair on the important part of the test. Inquiring minds will wish to know if you are one of those people who think they live in perfection without sin.

If so, this would represent another part of the Holy Bible that you either ignore, disbelieve, or are confused with beyond measure. You would also be completely unique and be Jesus Christ, the ONLY ONE who ever walked this earth in sinless perfection.

UM?? - I'm positive that you are NOT Jesus Christ. You deny the catching up (RAPTURE) of HIS CHURCH, the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. You also appear to be TRYING????? to live under the law, ignoring the purpose and GIFT of Jesus Christ on the CROSS. That's why I asked you about WHO Jesus Christ is.

Let's see if you can do a little bit better on Bible Test #2. It's just as easy as the first test.

What are the commandments of Jesus Christ? List them please so we can all understand some of your other posts here.

Tom

you must go to church on Saturday. NOT!!!



Such language, Mr. Policeman.  

(http://sc.msn.com/2{/B4JV7DOJIT1@ESPQCW-JR[.jpg)




And for an Officer of the Law.

(http://www.oz.net/~daveb/images/Andy_e223.jpg)




embarrassing...

(http://www.picturesofrecord.com/EMSTA004.jpg)


revolting...

(http://cdn.netscape.com/wpt_tonr_03/200310190600_mb_hlm1_i1_1_0)


absolutely disgusting...

(http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/bullbeg.gif)


(http://drudgereport.com/siren.gif)


    :-X

Symphony,

 ;D   ;D  ROFL - can't get up.

I must investigate:

Beeps your eyes look a little blood shot there. I thin yous needs ta puts backs ons ya glasses.

The law says to do all thy work in the six days. It does not say to carry it over to the next week.  What does  "most people dont work the week ends anyway" have to do with keeping The Law?  Either ones keeps the law or they dont.  Do you believe you keep the law as it is written in the scriptures?

I believe Enoch will be the other, Sooner rather than later I hope :)

No Gray Areas

Suz

OK, scratching my head in confusion.......I'm a Sunday Keeper,  so where in the scripture of John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.......Where does it say that because I worship on Sunday that I don't get into heaven :(

shamey shamey......aaaaaammmmmmm I'm going to tell my Daddy on you....
GGGGGOOOOOODDDDDD, silver surfer is being mean and won't let Sunday worshipers play in the sand boooxxxxx! :P

musicllover

Silver Surfer,

You missed this request:

What are the commandments of Jesus Christ? List them please so we can all understand some of your other posts here.

Tom

No one now knows who the Two Witnesses are. But when they do appear, we will know that the return of Christ is not far away. ;D

The Two Witnesses are two human beings who will be given extraordinary power for 3 1/2 years just before Christ's return Revelation 11:3. If anyone attempts to harm them before they complete their ministry, "fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies" verse 5. Note the similarity between this and the power given to Elijah II Kings 1:9-15. They will also have power to produce drought and famine, as did Elijah Luke 4:25; I Kings 17:1-7, and to smite the earth with plagues, as Moses did in Egypt Revelation 11:6. However, there is no biblical justification to believe that the Two Witnesses are indeed Moses, Elijah or Enoch; God has never resurrected a prophet or apostle to do a work centuries or millennia later. God always uses people of the time to carry out His work. This could be two of the 144,000.

The most notable work of the Two Witnesses will be to give one final warning to this world. This message of rebuke and repentance will bring them into conflict with the people and the governments in power, and they will be martyred. The whole world will rejoice and give each other gifts as they view their dead bodies, lying unburied in the streets of Jerusalem verses 9-10. However, those same people will be struck with great fear when they see the Two Witnesses come to life again and ascend into the sky in a cloud verses 11-12.

Verse 4 calls them "the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth," an obvious reference to Zechariah 4:14. Combining this Old Testament prophecy with the interpretation of the lampstands in Revelation 1:20, it appears that the Two Witnesses will also have a profound ministry to the church of God: They will supply the church with "oil," that is, they will spiritually feed the church during the "famine of the Word" Amos 8:11. Thus, the Two Witnesses will be affiliated with and teaching the members of God's church before and possibly during their greater worldwide ministry.

Rev 11:3-5

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
KJV


I injoy reading the different ideas we form in our heads from scripture.... Reading what man sees,  how man see what God wrote. We say the witnesses are men will these men have literal fire proceedeth out of their mouth, ?  If one of them is Elijah, Moses, Enoch.... would he return as a flesh and blood person (like we are)? or in a glorified form, has he been in the presences of the Lord?
 

You hit the nail right on the head dream...I agree where you said that the Two witnesses are two human beings who will be given extraordinary power for 3 1/2 years...According to Scripture they're given 3 1/2 years to teach and witness to the nation of Israel. I liked how you put it into perspective, but i just wanted to add this and be on my way...We see in Scripture the feats God acomplished by using Moses and Elijah. Now if you remember Elijah didn't die...if my memory serves me...lol. He was taken up...so thus why would he be resurrected if he didn't die? Of course now on the other hand we got Moses who did die without seeing the Promised Land...much less even entering into Jerusalem to see the Glory of God in the Temple. So with that said one can either go for or against Elijah & Moses as the Two Witnesses. But i'll ask you guys this...what do we know about ole Enoch. All we know is this:

Genesis 5:18
And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
   19: And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
   20: And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
   21: And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
   22: And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
   23: And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
   24: And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

and also: Hebrews 11:5:

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

And also: Jude 1:14

And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

That's all Scripture says about ole Enoch. We aren't shown any miracles, any witnesses, and only 2 or 3 statements that he made while he was still on earth...so how is that one can pull that Enoch is eligable to be one of the Two Witnesses. On the other hand we know a WHOLE lot about Elijah and Moses. As dreamweaver noted the similarity between the powers of the two witnesses and that of Moses and Elijah. We see in Verse 5 of Revelation chapter 11 this:

And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

That's a striking similarity to Elijah's ability to call fire down from heaven, as 1 Kings 18 22-40 records that he called fire down from heaven upon his sacrifice to the Almighty God to show the prophets of baal that God is indeed the Almighty, and the power of the two witnesses to send fire to consume their enemies. Also in a clearer display of this power Elijah calls down fire from heaven to consume the men themselves in 2 Kings 1:9-11....very, very close to the description we're given in Revelation.

Also...if i may direct your attention to another one of Elijah's gifts given to him by the Almighty God. The power to shut up the rain...or as dreamweaver said "to produce drought and famine" This goes right along with 1 Kings 17:1-7 and James 4:17. This power to shut up the rain is given to Elijah, we don't see it given to Enoch. Oh yea...i just read where you said dreamweaver "God always uses people of the time to carry out His work" That's a good point, but i'd like to remind you that in the Millenial Kingdom there will be people from all time doing His work in the Kingdom..but that's getting off the subject.

NOw those last two gifts we're shown have been attributed to Elijah...for he was the only prophet to do those miraculous feats...to my knowledge...and I"ll admit...i'm still learning so i don't claim to know everything, but i'm going on what Scripture says and what God's shown me. Anywho...let's take a look at the similarities between the power to smite the earth with plagues and the power to turn the water into blood.

Note...Moses was given the power to turn the water into blood. He did so in Exodus 7:15-21 and also Psalms records that he did this feat also. (Psalms 105:29) This parallels the miracle of turning water into blood as Revelation 11:6 states it. That's one of the gifts we see Moses and the two witnesses having.

Note also...if you would...the power to smite the earth with plagues. This goes along with Exodus chapters 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12 where God shows His judgement upon the pharaoh. In each case God shows His supreme sovereignty by sending plagues upon the people. He will continue to show His sovereignty when the Two Witnesses come to preach during the 3 1/2 years they are given to witness.

well that about sums it up fer me...my teenage appetite is flaring up again so i gotta go assume the role of the garbage disposal...being 17 doesn't help matters much when you're trying to write out something and yer stomach is growling...hee hee. Anyway...I hope i havn't been too exhaustive, and i hope i made some sense...cause some of that stuff can get a wee bit confusing if ya just glance at it at first...but Scripture backs up Scripture or as Scripture says "Iron sharpens Iron" so i hope someone got something out of this post and I pray that this finds you all in high spirits and in His grace and mercy as we all look UPWARD!!!!

God Bless ya...

In His Service,
Joshua
09/7/04

Josh,  One of my grandsons is named Joshua  :) I doubt if you and i will agree on what we see in scripture.. My point here is to say to you a, young soldier in His army, keep writing and studing it does my heart good to read of 'youngins' in the Word.

 5:7   Thou shalt have none other gods before me.  
  5:8   Thou shalt not make thee [any] graven image, [or] any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the waters beneath the earth:  
  5:9   Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me,  
  5:10   And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.  
  5:11   Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold [him] guiltless that taketh his name in vain.  
  5:12   Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.  
  5:13   Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:  
  5:14   But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.  
  5:15   And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and [that] the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.  
  5:16   Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.  
  5:17   Thou shalt not kill.  
  5:18   Neither shalt thou commit adultery.  
  5:19   Neither shalt thou steal.  
  5:20   Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.  
  5:21   Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any [thing] that [is] thy neighbour's.  
  5:22   These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and .....he added no more.
   And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.  (Duet.)

  5:13  Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:     5:14  But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.  

Do you get all your work done in 6 days as commanded?
Do you cause "the stranger" to do any labour?  

Do you realize that I belong to the church that  God identifies, as His ?
"Here is the patience of the saints...here are they that keep the commandments of God, and have the faith of Jesus", (Revelation 14:12).


Do you realize that it is Satan, who opposes those people who obey God ?
"And the dragon (Satan) was angry with the woman (Church) and went to make  WAR...with the remnant of her seed, which keeps the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ", (Revelation 12:17).

No church, that holds Sunday worship services, fits this description...because they are breaking the 4th commandment of God.

Silver Surfer,

You didn't even get close on the Commandments of Jesus Christ. I've already posted them in another thread, one that I think was for you.
____________________

(Matthew 22:35)  Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
(Matthew 22:36)  Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
(Matthew 22:37)  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
(Matthew 22:38)  This is the first and great commandment.
(Matthew 22:39)  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
(Matthew 22:40)  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
_____________________

If you wish to live under the Law, you MUST live under all of it. However, we are not under the Law, rather the Grace and Love of Almighty God and the PERFECT SACRIFICE of Jesus Christ on the CROSS. There are still many unbelieving Jews trying to live under the Law. They rejected Jesus Christ as VERY GOD, Lord and Saviour, THE CROSS. We don't live under the Law, rather under GRACE.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Again you have not answered......

Silver, Famous word of Charly Brown, OH GOOD GRIEF,
       Do you realize how this sounds? ...."Do you realize that I belong to the church that  God identifies, as His ?"......WELL (said in disgust).. :o....would you mind sharing the name of this church? Maybe  EGO's R US  ;D
    I kinda don't think your the only one goin to Heaven Hon. All have fallen short......any who call on his name, confess, .......there are alot of scriptures that say so.
Musicllover    

I know I put that in because that, is a possibilty. I know that in the Millenial Kingdom, there will be people from all time doing Gods work. From all the Prophets of the Bible to todays/tomorrows people.

Only the person who commits sin, is under the Law, (Romans 3:19).

God's Law, the 10 commandments, is called the Law of Liberty, (James 2:10-12)

5:8   Thou shalt not make thee [any] graven image, [or] any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the waters beneath the earth:  

I am sure you have no pictures or likenessof anything that is in heaven above or in the earth beneath. That would be a picture of a tree, a child, medow, cloud, flowers, surly you do not read a magizine that has such  law breaking likeness or picture. Or is verse EX 5:8 less of a commandment than 5:12? If you have such likeness how do you justify them?

Ok dreamweaver...just makin sure you were aware of that...i read that and i was like 'whoa' what in the world...but i was just making sure...like you said no one will know completely who the 2 witnesses are in the Trib. Period. Oh yea and to you Reba...thanks for the support. Like yous aid we may not agree on doctrine 100% of the time, but as long as you believe in salvation through Christ and Christ alone through the remission of our sins and his death burial and resurrection and that His death on the cross was for all mankind...we're peachy keen together...lol Anywho i gotta deal with silver right quick.

hey silver bub...what gives you the right to say all the churchs who hold sunday morning worship are breaking the 4th commandment of God...well, if you remember Jesus came to fulfill the law...and Paul said that we ain't under the Law anymore, but are under Grace. So how is it that we still have to follow the Jewish Law which says that the Sabbath is one Saturday...but that ain't the issue on which day is the sabbath. The issue is that each and every day we are to worship God, If i remember the psalmist david saying "I will praise you from the morning, to the evening" the verse eludes me. But we worship the LORD OF THE SABBATH, so it shouldn't matter what time of day or when we worship God...if it's on Sunday, then by all means you shouldn't be blasting those who do that by saying they break the law...remember this is a different dispensation...one of Grace, and not the Law, cause if we were to follow the whole law there ain't no way...cause Jewish law found 613 commandments that one had to follow...now i don't know about you, but i wouldn't be able to do it...matter of fact i don't know of anyone else who did other than Christ Himself...so don't let your pride blind you into making statements like:

Do you realize that I belong to the church that  God identifies, as His ?
"Here is the patience of the saints...here are they that keep the commandments of God, and have the faith of Jesus", (Revelation 14:12).


Do you realize that it is Satan, who opposes those people who obey God ?
"And the dragon (Satan) was angry with the woman (Church) and went to make  WAR...with the remnant of her seed, which keeps the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ", (Revelation 12:17).

No church, that holds Sunday worship services, fits this description...because they are breaking the 4th commandment of God.

it's dangerous doing this friend...just watch your step lest satan take advantage of you...look...i myself am a baptist...and have seen other baptists who are full of zeal mess up and make the mistake of saying they belong to the church of Christ that will enter into heaven. Now there's nothing wrong with saying you are part of the Body of Christ, but when you go and say that no church that holds sunday worship services fits this description, you're accusing part of the Body of Christ. So take what you wish...and do what you wish friend...i just doin't want to see ya mess up and say something that ain't Biblical. Just a few observations.

In His Service,
Joshua

Well, just to be picky -


Is that so? Well....grocery store and department store clerks; hairdressers; policemen and firemen; doctors and nurses; child care workers; factory shift workers; car dealerships; car washes; gas stations; convenience stores; fast food employees; coffee shops; restaurant workers; newspaper staff and deliverers; towtruck, taxicab & ambulance drivers; airline pilots, stewardesses and grounds crew; pastors, preachers and priests; I could go on and on, but you get the drift. People do work on the weekends, whether it is Saturday or Sunday.[/b]


Because I attend worship service at a church building on Sunday doesn't mean I don't also worship God every other day of the week and understand fully what that means -

Mar 14:49  I was with you daily in the temple teaching, and you did not seize Me. But the Scriptures must be fulfilled.

Luk 9:23  And He said to all, If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow Me.  

Act 2:46  And continuing with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they shared food with gladness and simplicity of heart,
Act 2:47  praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.

Act 16:5  Then indeed the churches were established in the faith and increased in number daily.  

And further, Jesus himself taught/worked and set the example:

Mat 12:1  At that time Jesus went through the grain fields on the sabbath day. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck the heads of grain and to eat.
Mat 12:2  But when the Pharisees saw, they said to Him, Behold, your disciples do that which it is not lawful to do on the sabbath day.
Mat 12:3  But He said to them, Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, and those who were with him,
Mat 12:4  how he entered into the house of God and ate the showbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5  Or have you not read in the Law that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath and are blameless?
Mat 12:6  But I say to you that One greater than the temple is in this place.
Mat 12:7  But if you had known what this is, "I desire mercy and not sacrifice," you would not have condemned those who are not guilty.
Mat 12:8  For the Son of Man is Lord even of the sabbath.
Mat 12:11  And He said to them, What man among you will be, who will have one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the sabbaths, will he not lay hold on it and lift it out?
Mat 12:12  How much better is a man then than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.


Mar 2:23  And it happened that He went through the grainfields on the sabbath day. And as they walked His disciples began to pluck the heads of grain.
Mar 2:24  And the Pharisees said to Him, Behold, why do they do that which is not lawful on the sabbath day?
Mar 2:25  And He said to them, Have you never read what David did, when he had need and was hungry, he, and those with him?
Mar 2:26  How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest and ate the showbread, which it is not lawful to eat, except for the priests, and also gave to those with him?
Mar 2:27  And He said to them, The sabbath came into being for man's sake, and not man for the sabbath's sake.
Mar 2:28  Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the sabbath.

Mar 3:1  And He again entered into the synagogue. And a man was there who had a withered hand.
Mar 3:2  And they watched Him to see if He would heal him on the sabbath day, so that they might accuse Him.
Mar 3:3  And He said to the man who had the withered hand, Arise! Come into the middle.
Mar 3:4  And He said to them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? To save life, or to kill? But they were silent.


Luk 13:14  And answering, the synagogue ruler, being angry because Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, said to the crowd, There are six days in which it is right to work. Therefore in them come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.
Luk 13:15  And the Lord answered him and said, Hypocrite! Does not each one of you on the sabbath loosen his ox or ass from the stall and lead it away, to give it drink?
Luk 13:16  And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham whom Satan has bound, lo these eighteen years, be loosened from this bond on the Sabbath day?

Joh 5:16  And therefore the Jews persecuted Jesus and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the sabbath day.

Joh 5:18  Then, because of this, the Jews sought the more to kill Him, because He not only had broken the sabbath, but also said that God was His father, making Himself equal with God.

Joh 9:14  And it was a sabbath when Jesus made the clay and opened his eyes.

Joh 9:16  Therefore some of the Pharisees said, This man is not from God, because he does not keep the sabbath. Others said, How can a man, a sinner, do such miracles? And there was a division among them.  

In Christ
Gracey

Read and study them in context with references for a basic understanding of these Scriptures.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Back to the original topic.  What about what Jesus said about John the Baptist in this passage?  If John was Elijah, why would there need be another to come?

7 As these men were going away, Jesus began to speak to the crowds about John, "What did you go out into the R385 wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8 "But F237 what did you go out to see? A man dressed in soft clothing? Those who wear soft clothing are in kings' palaces! F238 9 "But F239 what did you go out to see? A R386 prophet? Yes, I tell you, and one who is more than a prophet. 10 "This is the one about whom it is F240 written, `BEHOLD, I SEND MY MESSENGER AHEAD OF YOU, WHO WILL PREPARE YOUR WAY BEFORE YOU.' 11 "Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist! Yet the one who is least F242 in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 "From R388 the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers F243 violence, and violent men take F244 it by force. 13 "For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 "And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah R389 who was F245 to come. 15 "He R390 who has ears to hear, let F246 him hear.

I apologize for all the numbers in the middle.

"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet [before] the coming of the [great and dreadful day] of the Lord", (Malachi 4:5).
Now, what was so dreadful about John the Baptist's preaching, about Christ's first coming ?

 NOTHING !

This Bible verse refers, to Christ's 2nd coming....when Jeus takes his church to heaven, and destroys the wicked, by the brightness of his coming, (2 Thess. 2:8).

I understand what you're saying with that verse.  But how do we reconcile that verse with what Jesus said of John and Elijah?  14 "And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come. 15 "He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

OK, then how do you reconcile the words: Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet ......[BEFORE the coming of the great and dreadful day] of the LORD ?  

 I believe the two witnesses are going to be Elijah and Enoch, they will be witnessing in the streets 1,260 days in sackclothes then after there witnessing the Beast  coming up out of the Abyss will fight against them overcome them and kill them and their dead bodies will lie in the main street of the great city whose name to reflect its spiritual condition is Sodom and Egypt the city where their Lord was executed on a stake. (or Crucified).... Revelation chapter 10

I say it will be Elijah and Enoch is because they never tasted death God took them up in a whirlwind into heaven 2 Kings 2:1-15 and Genesis 5:24

I believe John states it clearly that he is not Elijah in John chapter 1 verse 21 And they asked him What then? Are you Elijah? He said I am not.

So i would gather that it would be Elijah and Enoch since they never seen death they will one day be murdered by the Beast. There bodies will lie in the street for 3 and half days.. Verse 11 in Revelation But after the three and a half days a breath  of life from God entered them they stood up on their feet and great fear fell on those who saw them.

But i wonder in verse 14, i wonder what this Third Woe is comingly quickly.

Michael

Hey sulfur...take a look at my post before last where i listed a few Scriptural parallels between the two witnesses and Moses and Elijah...just a thought. Like i said earlier...I don't know 100% who the two witnesses are and I doubt anyone else does, but we can draw from Scripture some clues...so check it out when you have some time...God Bless

In His Service,
Joshua

p.s. the city is Jerusalem! :)

/\ /\
 l   l
 l   l
 l   l
 l   l

KEEP LOOKING UPWARD FOR CHRIST :)

~sigh~.....

What I'm asking, is how do we interpret what Jesus said in my previous post?

What I gather is that John the Baptist was the forerunner who proclaims the Messiah's coming...and also that Elijah will return as one of the Two witness to proclaim His second coming during the Trib Period...but i can't say without entire certainty because it is prophecy we're dealing with, and prophecy most often has a local application and a long-term application or explanation of God's plan. Notice that the Jews during that time also thought that Christ was Elijah too...they weren't sure who was who...lol. they also thought John the Baptist was Elijah...and one can draw many parallels between Elijah and John the Baptist. 1. Both weren't shy about proclaiming God's Word. 2. Both spent the majority of their time out in the wilderness. 3. Both were instruments of God used to bring people to repentance. I'm sure there are a few others, but it eludes me at the moment because the teacher's about to begin to teach...lol...i hope that's of some help...if not...i hope someone else can explain it to your likeing...hope this finds you well and in God's will...God Bless

In His Service,
Joshua

Thank you Jemidon.

Was wondering, what did the two witnesses warn the people? If one of them is Elijah, then as what he did in the OT, destroying the BAAL false prophets, he will also warn people not to worship idols. Do not worship the image of the beast? What is the image of the beast then? So, anything not of God is of the beast and what is of the beast are idols from different Faiths.

So, I believe the 2 witnesses could be warning people not to worship idols and to carry it's mark, either on their right hand or on their forehead. If they did not repent, then they will suffer the plagues in whatever the 2 witnesses desired. They can smite the Earth in whatever ways they want and tormented those who worship the image of the beast. Still, as what is written, sadly, the people did not repent.

These 2 witnesses, I think, will make way for the Kingdom of God is coming on Earth. Everything should be cleaned and make the path straight as the King of Kings will come. Every symbol and Every idol that the Beast represents should be cast away and break it's stronghold. Nothing abominable shall be in the Kingdom of God.
 

Such as Sunday Worship services ?

 "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.  
  66:23   And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD," (Isaiah 66:22,23).  

Sunday Worship? I don't think worshipping the one true God on a Sunday will be abominable. We are worshipping our Lord Jesus Christ and not idols. If you notice the name Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and etc, they are actually named after the heathen gods of ancient babylon. We follow the pagan calendars, but for telling time only, and not for worship. If you are in China, you follow the Chinese calendar, but for telling time only. Even our watches, when you look at it, it follows pagan time scheme, where at the strike of 12midnite, it will be another new day. The  original is, from Sun rise to Sun rise that will equal one day. So, it's just for time sake. We do not practice it and worship their idols. We do not worship any graven images or practice pagan practices on Sunday or any other days of the week.

Look at the US dollar note. You see a pagan symbol at the back - the illuminati. Be careful not to worship money or covet things.
Do not make money the center of your life. Trust God that he will provide everything for you and not how much money you are going to earn. One should not be so obsessed in making money. Otherwise, the occult symbol will grab hold on you or ensnare you and destroy your life. Yes, we do need money to buy our everyday necessities, but our focus should be on our Lord Jesus Christ who provide us these things, and not money.  

Deutornomy 7
25 The graven images of their gods you shall burn with fire; you shall not covet the silver or the gold that is on them, or take it for yourselves, lest you be ensnared by it; for it is an abomination to the LORD your God. 26 And you shall not bring an abominable thing into your house, and become accursed like it; you shall utterly detest and abhor it; for it is an accursed thing.  

Leviticus 18
24 "Do not defile yourselves by any of these things, for by all these the nations I am casting out before you defiled themselves; 25 and the land became defiled, so that I punished its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you shall keep my statutes and my ordinances and do none of these abominations, either the native or the stranger who sojourns among you 27 (for all of these abominations the men of the land did, who were before you, so that the land became defiled); 28 lest the land vomit you out, when you defile it, as it vomited out the nation that was before you. 29 For whoever shall do any of these abominations, the persons that do them shall be cut off from among their people. 30 So keep my charge never to practice any of these abominable customs which were practiced before you, and never to defile yourselves by them: I am the LORD your God."

So, when the two witnesses comes, they will probably warn people not to worship the image of the beast and all full trust, faith and confidence should be to God. The image of the beast are the images of false gods and deities and all the symbols that comes with it. Look at all the world flags. See how it is full of occult symbols? The popular ones are the pentagram - five pointed star, the crescent moon - the moon god/goddess symbol, the sun - sun god worship. See how people pledge on it and die for it and be patriotic? Very subtle isn't it? Don't put too much faith on your national flag/government and how it will protect you, put all your faith to God and trust that He, only He can protect you, for our citizenship is already in heaven.

You quoted:
  " But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition ?"
"    But in vain ...they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men", (Matthew 15:3,9).

Yes, I got what you mean. I forgot what verse that was, telling he change the times, and yes he did. We all follow pagan time scheme. Do we have a choice here? Is Saturday the real day of Sabbath we're suppose to keep?  The one who changed the times designed a new time (gregorian calendar) so as to keep real worshippers from worshipping on the real sabbath. Do we have the exact and accurate day?

You quoted:
Have you ever thought about the Old...and the New...Testaments as being the 2 witnesses ?
After all....the whole Bible contains everything God wants people to know and understand, right ?

Yes, there are so many translations to that, some say it's Elijah and Moses, some say it's Elijah and Enoch. After all the OT and the NT holds witness and testimony of God. But, I ask, are the two witnesses prophets who tormented those who worship the image of the beast and fire came out from their mouth to destroy their enemies?

For me, the Bible can be understood spiritually and literally. Spiritually, the OT and NT - holds witness and testimony of God and literally - the 2 witnesses are the 2 prophets and 1 one them probably is Elijah as God will send him before the great and dreadful day of the Lord. For me, the word of God is a double edge sword.

You quoted:
As  for this.....the whole Bible has 'already provided' ...that information.....As the Book of Daniel and Revelation (put together) has 'already' told us who the Beast is.

Please enlighten me, as I read many translation here. I would love to read yours.

here we go again with the law stuff...tsk tsk tsk...i'd thought we'd gotten through to ya...guess i'm gonna have to go into deeper detail...watch out.  ;) Night

Joshua

"And the dragon was angry with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ", (Revelarion 12:17).

Is it Christian to put other gods before Him?

Is it Christian to to make a graven image?

Is it Christian to take the Lords name in vain?

Is it Christian to remember the sabbath?

Is it Christian to honour your Father and Mother?

Is it Christian to kill?

Is it Christian to commit adultery?

Is it Christian to steal?

Is it Christian to lie?

Is it Christian to covet?



Matt 22:37-40

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
KJV
 

It would not be a good thing to totally disreguard the laws of daily living God set in His Word.  Mostly we call them the laws of Moses but they are Gods Word, not the word of Moses. The whole of His earth could live together much more peaceable if the laws of the lands mirrored the scriptures. His laws have merit if for no other reason than the fact they are His. We are His creation I do believe He knows us well.

Silver Surfer wrote:
The 7 day weekly cycle has never ever changed.


Ok. What day do you attend your praise and worship? I attend on Sundays as I have half days work on Saturdays. If I don't have work on Saturday, I read and study the Bible. Coming from a Sabbath keeping Church before and it split up because of differing views, this year I attended a praise and worship church. This is so different as people there were happy and enjoying themselves and they're so inspired. It's a different change for me but I know God has led me to this Church. :) Though, sometimes, I got used to observing Sabbath on a Saturday, I try to make sure to keep it holy by having a quite bible study. But, that does not mean that I'm holier than my other brethrens lest I fall into a trap like what the Pharisees and Sadduces did.

I did compare my old church to the new one, but I came to realize I cannot judge another man's servant (the ministers or pastors). To each the Holy Spirit give gifts according to his will. Some a gift of healing, some teaching, some prayer warriors, some discerning of spirits, some a gift of sight, some speaking of tongues, some prophets, and etc. Now, since the body of Christ is the Church, one church cannot be both hand and eyes, or one church cannot be both head and ears but each one belonging to the body of Chirst. But, it will be a different story if a church teaches damnable hersies and according to man's tradition like idol worshipping.

I understand that the Bible can have several translations with other churches, but we should trust the Holy Spirit to guide us to the scriptures as He is the key to understanding the Bible deeper lest we fall into a trap again and lean too much to our own understanding.

Let see what the Bible says about this:

1 Corinthians 12

1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were heathen, you were led astray to dumb idols, however you may have been moved. 3 Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking by the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus be cursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except by the Holy Spirit. 4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6 and there are varieties of working, but it is the same God who inspires them all in every one. 7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. 12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--Jews or Greeks, slaves or free--and all were made to drink of one Spirit. 14 For the body does not consist of one member but of many. 15 If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell? 18 But as it is, God arranged the organs in the body, each one of them, as he chose. 19 If all were a single organ, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, yet one body. 21 The eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you," nor again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you." 22 On the contrary, the parts of the body which seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and those parts of the body which we think less honorable we invest with the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, 24 which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving the greater honor to the inferior part, 25 that there may be no discord in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together. 27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. 28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the higher gifts. And I will show you a still more excellent way.

On a Saturday right? Thanks. So, most probably, you're following the Hebrew Calendar and not the Pagan Gregorian calendar right? Do clarify, please.


Yes, I know. But, I ask, as what our brethren Reba quoted,"
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." How do you perceive this? And, how many christian churches observe the Sabbath day strictly to the Law? Can you give a count?


Yes, I know. But not all pharisees and sadduces were like that, though most of them are.  Now I know what Jesus Christ meant, "Lord!, Lord! Did we cast out demons in your name, heal the sick in your name? and Jesus told them, "I do not know you, depart from me you who practice lawlessness!" Some Christians can fall into that trap, unfortunately.

Did we stop and think, did we do God's will? Did we feed the poor, visit the prisoners, confessed our sins, share the gospel,  forgave our enemies, pray for unsaved people, not to turn down who borrows from you, not to revenge who stole from you, had a good relationship with Christ through prayers, repented of our ways fully, being that good samaritan, and etc. And do not love our lives and the world? Did we follow what Christ told us? Jesus Christ also did work on a Sabbath day and the Pharisees accused Him of working. It is better to do good on a Sabbath day rather than leave someone hungry and thirsty.


I understand clearly your situation, my brethren. But, I worship my Lord Jesus Christ every day through praying. I do God's will to the best of my ability. I help people. I have repented of my ways with God's help. Though I do not want to deceive myself and tell a lie, I still sin, but I'm quick to ask God for forgiveness right there on the spot and stop the enemy from having a foothold on me. How can I then be wicked? If I follow strict to the law the Sabbath day, but do not do God's will, how can I then be righteous?

I follow my Lord's commandment which was fulfilled by 2 commandments:

Matt 22:37-40
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The above quote (Ezekiel, chapter 33), as I understand, the "wicked" mentioned were those people who are of the "world", idol worshippers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, and the likes who has their part in the lake of fire. We are to warn those kind of people to repent of their ways and worship the one true God, Jesus Christ. If they do not, the sword will come. We as Christians are to warn those people of the world of the coming wrath of the lamb. We are all watchman and watchwoman. Every Christian has to do their part and to save as many as we can for we cannot remain lukewarm lest our Lord Jesus Christ spew us out of his mouth. Now, as Jesus Christ has told us, we are not here for those who are well, but for those who are sick.

Now, my heart really wants me to remember the Sabbath day and to keep it holy as it is convicting me. How does one Christian observe this? Through helping people, studying the Bible, refrain from any entertainment, etc? How long would the Sabbath be? From Surise till Sunset? I know it won't be a sacrifice as it's easy following these, for I want to love God with all my heart, with all my strength and with all my soul.

How is it for one Christian to remember the Sabbath day and also working on that day? What if someone wants my help? Do I fall on deaf ears?

How do we remember the Sabbath day and to keep it holy, but not like what the Pharisees and Sadduces are doing which is very burdensome?

I know Jesus Christ did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. What is the fulfillment of the Sabbath? What was Christ's example?

I would like to hear what the Holy Spirit tells you.

God bless.

Silver Surfer,

A Christian's rest and peace is in JESUS, 24/7. If you wish to remain in a prison with all of the doors unlocked, go right ahead. Don't be shocked when nobody wishes to join you. Jesus freed all of those who have accepted HIM as Lord and Saviour. Your penalty was paid for by Jesus in full.

JESUS CHRIST is Lord over all days, hours, minutes, and seconds. I am free IN HIM, and I love every second of it. I will NOT accept your invitation to prison, and nobody else will either. You speak for Moses, NOT JESUS. You might be saved - I don't know. If so, leave prison and walk with JESUS 24/7. If not, many sweet Christians here would love to share JESUS with you.

Love In Christ,
Tom

I’ve been reading all the forums here, and there seem to be a struggle between Sabbath keeping and Sunday worship. I think I got the picture now. Just correct me if I’m wrong.

Revelation 14

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

As Silver Surfer has mentioned, God only points out to one Church. This is correct.

Remember, we are Gentiles. We are not Jews. We are not children of Israel. Because of our Lord Jesus Christ sacrifice for all of mankind, we have the right to salvation. Whoever believes in Him will be saved.

"Here is the patience of the saints", it means we as Saints are waiting for that time where some Jews finally be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ and accept Him as saviour. As we are sealed they will also be sealed - all 144,000 of them - all the tribe of Israel.

Concerning the "seal", we read:

Ephesians 1
 13 In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 which is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

and

Ephesian 4
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

and the tribe of Isreal:

Revelation 7
4 And I heard the number of the sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand sealed, out of every tribe of the sons of Israel,

Reading Revelation 14, how come only one exclusive Church? Who are they? Let’s read on:

Revelation 12

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

How come ‘the’ remnant? Read on:

Romans 9

26 "And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' they will be called 'sons of the living God.'" 27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved;

We know, in order to be saved, one must believe in Jesus Christ, because He is the only way. Now, reading the verse above, “only a remnant will be saved”.

This is very clear and simple to understand, in the last days, some Jews will believe in Jesus Christ, be baptized and be saved!! Praise God! This is concerning Israel and not the Gentiles.

You see know brethrens? This is the remnant Church that Revelation12 is talking about! This remnant church is a Jewish Christian born again/evangelical Church. This exclusive Church coming from a Jewish background carried with them the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.  Jewish + Christian interconnected = the remnant church.

Now if we think the other way, and think this is one of the hundreds of Christian Gentile church, we will be confused, because if we were to think that our church is that remnant church which keeps the commandments of God, then the rest of the other churches are null and void and make the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ in vain.  

Remember, the commandments of God is not only the 10 commandments, but the rest of the OT commandments which includes not eating pork, seafoods, animals with split hooves, birds of prey, and etc. It’s a lot.

Concerning the law and works of Israel and the faith of the Gentiles, we read:

Romans 9

29 And as Isaiah predicted, "If the Lord of hosts had not left us children, we would have fared like Sodom and been made like Gomor'rah." 30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, righteousness through faith; 31 but that Israel who pursued the righteousness which is based on law did not succeed in fulfilling that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it through faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33 as it is written, "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone that will make men stumble, a rock that will make them fall; and he who believes in him will not be put to shame."

See the difference? Not through righteousness based on law because the law was not fulfilled but to righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ.

The way I see it, there are 2 audiences here, the children of Israel and the Gentiles. If we read the Bible in general not looking at the distinctions, we will get confused and there will be conflict. We are not Israelites, we are Gentiles.

And again, read on:

Romans 10

1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they mightbe saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

See now Christian Sabbath keepers? You are not Jews, like us you are also Gentiles. Agreed? Hellooo??

Jesus Christ already died for our sins. Just believe in Him and you will be SAVED. It's not burdensome. It's not judgemental. Anyone can be saved if you believe in His holy name. There's no condition attached. We are sinners. We have been cleansed by the mighty Blood of Jesus Christ. We have repented because of our Faith in Jesus Christ. Not by ourselves, but by the power of the Holy Spirit. He is in us to guide us in all truths and to free us from all bondage.  

Free yourself from the chains, as Christ has already freed us. Free yourself and have peace and wait for our Lord Jesus Christ coming!!

Woohoo!! Praise the Lord! Glory be His name! God almighty!

H1471
&#1490;&#1468;&#1497;    &#1490;&#1468;&#1493;&#1497;
go&#770;y  go&#770;y
go'ee, go'-ee
Apparently from the same root as H1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts: - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

Eph 2:18-20

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone
KJV


I am not a gentile i am not foreigner, nor an animal,  nor locusts and i am not a heathen.

If you take it figuratively, yes. Animal or locusts.

But generally, it means and understood clearly by everyone is:

hyperdicationay.com

Gentiles Definition:      

(Heb., usually in plural, goyim), meaning in general all nations except the Jews. In course of time, as the Jews began more and more to pride themselves on their peculiar privileges, it acquired unpleasant associations, and was used as a term of contempt.

In the New Testament the Greek word Hellenes, meaning literally Greek (as in Acts 16:1, 3; 18:17; Rom. 1:14), generally denotes any non-Jewish nation.

and

Wikipedia.com

A Gentile refers to a non-Israelite; the word is derived from the Latin term gens (meaning "clan" or a "group of families") and is often employed in the plural. Christian translators of the Bible use this word to collectively designate the peoples and nations distinct from the Israelite people; the word is used that way over 130 times in the King James Version of the Bible, in both the Old and New Testaments. From the 17th century on this term was most commonly used to refer to non-Jews. In recent decades this use of the term has somewhat fallen out of favour, and "non-Jew" is typically used as a substitute.

and by Smith's Bible Dictionary

Gentiles: (nations). All the people who were not Jews were so called by them, being aliens from the worship, rites and privileges of Israel. The word was used contemptuously by them. In the New Testament it is used as equivalent to Greek. This use of the word seems to have arisen from the almost universal adaption of the Greek language.

I refer to Gentiles as Non-Jewish. Therefore, when I say, gentile christian church, it is understood as, Non-Jewish Non-Israelite Christian Church.

Of course, as what you have quoted:

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone

Yes, when we accept our Lord Jesus Christ, we have access by one Spirit unto the God the Father. We are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizen with the saints, and of the household of God.

We therefore, no longer Gentiles but fellowcitizen with the saints. Neither Gentiles nor Jews.

lowflatrate-

I think there is a problem dividing the body of Christ up into "Jewish  and non-Jewish".  It's not a country club ;)
But seriously, I have seen this same approach to understanding scripture and it is false.  The problem this approach creates, is that now there are two brides (of Christ), but only a covenant with one.  The sign of the covenant with Israel is the Sabbath, this is equivalent to a wedding ring-

The problem is that nowhere in the Bible (OT or NT) is a covenant made with anyone except Israel!!! God doesn't have a mistress (Gentile church), only a bride.  So where does that leave Gentiles like us that weren't born Jews?  Look what Eph says-
Eph 2:11-22
11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are "Uncircumcision" by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands-- 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. 17 AND HE CAME AND PREACHED PEACE TO YOU WHO WERE FAR AWAY, AND PEACE TO THOSE WHO WERE NEAR ; 18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

Note that being part of Israel is being part of Christ.  Paul goes to great lengths to make Gentiles understand that they are -

-Fellow citizens in Israel (Eph. 2:19 above)

-Circumcised
Rom. 2:26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?

-Sons of Abraham
Rom 4:16 For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

-Grafted into Israel
Rom. 11:17-27
17 Now if some of the branches were broken off, and you, though a wild olive branch, were grafted in among them, and have come to share in the rich root of the cultivated olive tree, 18 do not brag that you are better than those branches. But if you do brag--you do not sustain the root, but the root sustains you. 19 Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." 20 True enough; they were broken off by unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you either. 22 Therefore, consider God's kindness and severity: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness toward you--if you remain in His kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not remain in unbelief, will be grafted in, because God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from your native wild olive, and against nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these--the natural branches--be grafted into their own olive tree? 25 So that you will not be conceited, brothers, I do not want you to be unaware of this secret: a partial hardening has come to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written: The Liberator will come from Zion; He will turn away godlessness from Jacob. 27 And this will be My covenant with them, when I take away their sins.

We are all children of Israel, albeit it sometimes feels like the ugly step-child of Israel.  Or maybe an adopted child- hmmm.... I seem to remember Israel (Jacob) adopting two Gentiles and one of them he said would become a multitude of Gentiles (nations)!!
(Gen. 48)

In most English NT translations, there is a distinction made that is false, by hiding when the word synagogue is used as in James 2:2-
For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;

The word translated "assembly" here is actually the word "synagogue" in the Greek.  

Or translating the word usually translated "church" as "congregation" as in Acts 7-
37 "This is the Moses who said to the sons of Israel, God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from among your brothers. 38 He is the one who was in the congregation in the desert together with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our forefathers. He received living oracles to give to us.

Note in Stephen's speech above, that the church mentioned is Israel!!

Not to mention, when you read through the Exodus from Egypt, there are Gentiles with them then, and they are all addressed as sons of Israel!!  God goes on to say that -

Ex 12:49 - " The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you."

God accepted them, and they ate the Passover with the native Israelites (the above passage is in reference to Passover specifically, but the same thing applies to all the laws as we see later in the Torah).

As a friend of mine once said, "I'm in bondage?  If this is bondage, tie me up!!"
In keeping God's law, this is the only bondage I am in, and I wholly recommend it to all believers-
Rom. 6:17, 22 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Note that God gives us freedom from slavery to sin, but that freedom is so that we can now follow Him and His commands.  This is why God redeemed Israel from slavery in Egypt and brought them to Sinai to become His slaves.

So what shall we say then?  Israel has not accepted the Messiah and has been blinded so that the Gentiles could come in.  Now that blindness is maintained through the ignorance of the Gentiles.  Check out Rom 10:9-20 -
9 But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says, "I WILL MAKE YOU JEALOUS BY THAT WHICH IS NOT A NATION, BY A NATION WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING WILL I ANGER YOU." 20 And Isaiah is very bold and says, "I WAS FOUND BY THOSE WHO DID NOT SEEK ME, I BECAME MANIFEST TO THOSE WHO DID NOT ASK FOR ME."

This verse is talking about Gentiles!!  We are called Gentiles which means "nations".  But we are part of a nation, Israel, but not affiliated with the physical Israel directly.  That fits this verse to a T, and fits us, although that makes us ignorant.  What is it that we Gentiles are ignorant of?  The law of God.  Israel didn't accept Jesus (as the Messiah), but claims to follow God's law.  We on the other hand say we follow the Messiah, but we don't accept (all of) God's law.  Who's right? Put the two together and you have the right answer, accept God's law, and God's lawgiver (the Messiah).

Oh, and one last thing, in regards to this verse-
Matt 22:37-40

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Some use this to say that these are now the only 2 commandments that we have to keep.  This is in error.  If you break one command, you have broken them all.  If you break the Sabbath command, then you have not loved God with all your heart, soul, and mind. If you move your neighbor's boundry stone, then you are not loving your neighbor as yourself.

God's law is a law of grace, faith and love.  It is perfect, holy, and good.  If we as Christians didn't have a negative traditional view of the law, then we would be able to see that it tells us how to live like Messiah, it is His shadow, and I for one will dwell in it.

Well there's my 2 cents....  oh, and my standard disclaimer-
I DON'T BELIEVE WE ARE SAVED BY KEEPING THE LAW
I DON'T BELIEVE SUNDAY CHRISTIANS ARE GOING TO HELL

Jesus can forgive even not keeping the Sabbath, as long as it is not done in rebellion.

-oneBook

Hi onebook, whew, that was long. I'm kind of weary here because Christians today are split into Sabbath keeping and Sunday worship, explaining a lot to make the point but I wish to stop. There are so many arguements with regards to these in this forum under a lot of topics, all are sincere and zealous about that, though I really want to continue and learn more, but I'm not a pastor nor a minister nor a teacher. I don't want to judge, takes sides and love less anyone who believes and translates the Bible differently from the other.

These are all the body of Christ. All were baptized in His name. All received the Holy Spirit and are sealed. All believed Jesus Christ sacrificed his sinless life once and for all for our sins. All believed He was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God and He became Flesh and dwelt among us. All are gifted in some areas or another in whatever the Holy Spirit wills.  

I'm just any regular guy who attends praise and worship on Sundays and worshipping God in my heart every day and every minute and every step I take and having faith in Him. I share the gospel to my unsaved officemate. Bring back those who fall off the body of Christ. Help people who needs my help. Forgave and made peace with my enemies and make amends with them no matter how much hurt I feel. I ask God immediately for forgiveness for  the sins that I've just done. Yes, I still sin. I'm not perfect.

Since I'm new to Bible study, I ask the Holy Spirit to teach me what He taught Paul, Matthew, Luke, etc. I ask the Holy Spirit to increase my faith, wisdom, and knowledge according to what He gave Elijah and Moses. I pray and ask that He may give me a prideless heart and a selfless heart so I can hear God's voice.

Everything I relay upon Jesus Christ. For He is my source of living a life what Christ intended for us to live.

Even before I type anything here, I ask the Holy Spirit to guide me for I lack the knowledge you guys posses and just refering to an online Bible for the verses - www.bible.com and a Bible I picked up from a Hotel. All I know is, to love God with all my heart, with all my soul, with everything, and to love my neighbor as I love myself.

God freed me from myself. I feel very happy and content with my life now. For I now have a purpose in life and a goal.