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#1.)  "Reason and common sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either protestants and the keeping holy Saturday, or Catholisim and the keeping of Sunday.
 Compromise is impossible"
(The Catholic Mirror, December 23, 1893)


#2.)  "Sunday is a Catholic institution, and its claims to observe can be defended only on Catholic principles....From the beginning of scripture to end of scripture there is not a single passage thatr warrents the transfer of weekly public meetings from the 7th day of the week to the 1st day of the week".
(Catholic Press, Sydney, Australia, August 1900).


#3.)  "It is well to remind Baptists, Methodists, presbyterians, and all other Christians that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday.
Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church".
(Priest Brady, in an addres, reported in Elizabeth, N.J. 'News', March 18, 1903).


#4.)  "Protestants....accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic church made the change (Daniel 7:25....'think to change times and laws').
But ther protestant mind does not seem to realize that in observing the Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church....the Pope".
(Our Sunday Visitor, February 5, 1950).


#5.)  "If protestants would follow the Bible, they should worship God on the Sabbath day. In keeping with the Sunday they are following a law of the Catholic church".
(Albert Smith, Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore, replying for the Cardinal, in a letter dated February 10, 1920).


Jesus said: "Why do you transgress the commandment of God by your traditions ?"

"BUT IN VAIN...do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men", (Matthew 15:3,9).


 QUESTION:  Are there any protestants left ?

"Sunday is a Catholic institution ;D

Nope, my Apostle Paul meet on the first day of the week (((((SUNDAY)))))

I am NOT a roman catholic ;D and I am sure NOT one of those protestants :) I am just a Bible Believer.

<:)))><

A Bible believer is one who follows What Christ says and does.
Jesus Christ said: "IF..you love me, keep my commandments", (John 14:15).

And Christ wrote the 4th commandment:
"REMEMBER the Sabbath day, to keep it Holy.", (Exodus 20:8-11).

Jesus also said: "Why call me, Lord, Lord, and not do the things I say ?, (Luke 6:46).

Old Testament verses.

I am under Gods GRACE, NOT Law

24/7

<:)))><

GRACE: "By whom we have received grace....for OBEDIENCE...to the faith, among all nations", (Romans 1:5).

GRACE:  "Shall we continue in sin...that grace may abound ?
 "GOD FORBID"
"How shall we (Christians) that are dead to sin, live any longer therein ?", (Romans 6:1,2).
(NOTE: Breaking God's commandments is sin, 1 John 3:4.....Romans 7:7).

Jesus said, 'go and sin no more', (John 5:14....8:11).


*****"For sin shall not have dominion over you, because we are not under the Law, but under Grace.
"What then ?
"Shall we sin (breaking God's commandments), because we are not under the Law ?, but under grace ?
 "GOD FORBID", (Romans 6:14,15)***************

PART 1

I AM NOT A CATHOLIC! I AM NOT AN ISRAELITE! I AM A MEMBER OF THE BODY OF CHIRST!

The following is taken from a 1994 copy of "THE GRACE JOURNAL", by Pastor Richard Jordan. (footnotes not included)

WHO CHANGED THE SABBATH?
"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy."—Exodus 20:8

In many church gatherings the fourth commandment of the Decalogue is publicly read each week. Generally those who observe this practice call Sunday the Sabbath, and yet when pressed as to why they "keep" the first day of the week rather than the seventh, Sunday instead of Saturday, confusion quickly sets in. While a few argue for Saturday, most seem to think that the Sabbath has been changed and that now Sunday is the so-called "Christian Sabbath." But has the Sabbath Day indeed been changed? and is Sunday really now the Sabbath? Let us see what God's Word says on this subject.

Although many who seek to observe the Sabbath are not readily familiar with Exodus 31, this chapter contains one of the most descriptive and instructive passages in the Bible on the subject of sabbath day observance.

"And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
"Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for IT IS A SIGN BETWEEN ME AND YOU throughout your generations; THAT YE MAY KNOW THAT I AM THE LORD THAT DOTH SANCTIFY YOU.
"Ye shall keep the Sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
"SIX DAYS MAY WORK BE DONE; BUT IN THE SEVENTH IS THE SABBATH OF REST, HOLY TO THE LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
"Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, FOR A PERPETUAL COVENANT.
"IT IS A SIGN BETWEEN ME AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL FOR EVER: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He rested, and was refreshed.
"And He gave unto Moses, when He had made an end of communing with him upon Mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God" (Exodus 31:12-18).

Here Moses clearly shows that sabbath day observance was "a sign" between the Lord and the children of Israel (vs. 13,17; cf. Ezekiel 20:20) to be kept throughout their generations, that Israel might know that "I am the Lord that doth sanctify you."

The "sabbath of rest" was to be kept holy unto the Lord" as a ceremonial observance1, given as a perpetual reminder of Israel's covenant relationship with and separation to the Lord. Recall His words to them through Moses:

"Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
"Now therefore, if ye will obey My voice indeed, and keep My covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto Me above all people: for all the earth is Mine:
"And ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel" (Exodus 19:4-6).

Israel was to be His "peculiar treasure," and as such He reminded them of their place, privilege and responsibility by this "sign" of sabbath day observance. There is not one line of Scripture to indicate that God gave the observance of the sabbath to anyone but Israel. In fact, the Scriptures seem to indicate that it was not given to anyone before Moses, for we read in Nehemiah 9:13,14:

"Thou camest down also upon Mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:
"And MADEST KNOWN UNTO THEM THY HOLY SABBATH, and commandedst them precepts, statutes and laws, BY THE HAND OF MOSES THY SERVANT."

AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE LAW

The observance of the sabbath day, then, was a part of the law given through Moses, and this explains both the exacting instructions and the severe penalties which accompany it.

A particular day was to be kept, not merely "one in seven." "The seventh is the sabbath of rest" (Exodus 31:15). And so demanding were the accompanying regulations that later Israel was told,

"Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the Sabbath day" (Exodus 35:3).

This would make cooking the sabbath day dinner a bit difficult—to say nothing of keeping warm in the winter! From passages like Exodus 16:22-26 it appears that they were to make all the necessary preparations for the sabbath of rest on the previous day so as not to be in violation of these exacting regulations.

And the penalty for breaking this "holy sabbath" was equally heavy:

"...everyone that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
"...whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death" (Exodus 31:14,15).

In Numbers 15:32-36 we see this sentence swiftly carried out against a man "that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day"—possibly to "kindle a fire."

One reason the sabbath day was used as a "sign" of the Mosaic Covenant is intimated in the words:

"...for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He rested, and was refreshed" (Exodus 31:17).

Just as God had perfected His work of creation in six days and then "rested and was refreshed," in like manner He had given Israel a work to do as His representative nation—His witness before the nations—and this work was to result in the promised "times of refreshing" (Acts 3:19). Israel's sabbath day was, of course, only a type of that coming day of kingdom blessing and rest, the future age when this groaning creation shall finally be "delivered from the bondage of corruption" and find true rest. Concerning that time we are told:

"Then judgment shall dwell in the wilderness, and righteousness remain in the fruitful field.
"And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance forever.
"And My people shall dwell in a peaceable habitation, and in sure dwellings, and in quiet resting places" (Isaiah 32:16-18).

To be cont'd in PART 2

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

PART 2
"WHO CHANGED THE SABBATH", by Richard Jordan.

ISRAEL'S FAILURE

Israel failed sadly in her responsibility. Thus when our lord appeared on the scene He was forced to lament even over the temple itself:

"...Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? But ye have made it a den of thieves" (Mark 11:17).

Hence, in a touching invitation, we see Him offering Himself to those who so futilely labored under the "burden" of keeping the Law:

"Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I WILL GIVE YOU REST.
"Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and YE SHALL FIND REST UNTO YOUR SOULS.
"For My yoke is easy, and My burden is light" (Matthew 11:28-30).

Israel's only hope of finding her true sabbath of rest lay in her Messiah, "the Lord of the sabbath." Here it is interesting to note that the Scripture's first mention of "rest" is found after the completion of creation (Genesis 2:1-3). But God's rest was soon broken, for in the very next chapter we see Him seeking fallen man and working in his behalf, slaying an innocent animal to provide him a covering.

Thus our Lord came to Israel to "seek that which was lost," and saying:

"...My Father worketh hitherto, and [now] I work" (John 5:17).

How touching to hear His words to the Father on the eve of His crucifixion: "I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do" (John 17:4), and then, as He hung upon the cross His cry:

"...IT IS FINISHED: and He bowed His head, and gave up the ghost" (John 19:30).

Indeed, He had finished redemption's work by His all-sufficient sacrifice for sin. Hence Hebrews 10:12 says:

"...After He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, [He] SAT DOWN ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD."

How blessed!! Our Lord "sat down"—for the work was completed, finished, with nothing left undone.

OUR REST

"There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
"For he that is entered into His rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from His" (Hebrews 4:9,10).

Just as God rested in his perfect work of creation; just as our Lord Jesus Christ ascended and sat down to rest in His perfect work of redemption; just so, we are now bidden to "enter into His rest."

Today, Christ is the believer's only Sabbath, our only resting place. We ceased from our labors, not on the sabbath day, but the very moment we enter by faith into "His rest," the result of His finished work at Calvary, where He died "the Just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God."

And what about "sabbath day observance" today? Galatians 3:19 tells us that the Law was added "till" something happened—and this something has happened. "We were kept under the law," the Apostle says, "shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed" (Galatians 3:23). But now with the revelation of the mystery through Paul that faith has come, and thus Paul declares by divine inspiration:

"BUT NOW the righteousness of God WITHOUT THE LAW is manifested…
"To declare, I say, AT THIS TIME His righteousness: that He might be just, and the Justifier of him which believeth in Jesus" (Romans 3:21,26; cf. Galatians 3:23-25).

And it is Paul who goes on further to say:

"FOR CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS to everyone that believeth" (Romans 10:4).

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
"Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ" (Colossians 2:16,17).

Who changed the Sabbath? Well, "the sabbath day" remains unchanged; it is still the seventh day, Saturday. However, God Himself has changed the sabbath—our resting place—from a day to a person. Now we are to rest in Him who died for our sins and rose again as proof that the debt is fully paid.

This no doubt explains why the Scriptures show Paul and the disciples meeting on "the first day of the week" (Acts 20:7, cf. I Corinthians 16:2). Thus, meeting on the day of His resurrection, they celebrated His finished work of redemption and their new-found "life in Christ Jesus."

And so it is with us. Ah, but this is seldom a "day of rest for us—far from it! Rather we will gladly toil right through Sunday that others may "find rest in Him."

A CLOSING WORD

Believers today are, of course, free to set aside any particular day for special worship and study. In the dispensation of grace, no day is set above any other. Hence Paul wrote to the Roman Christians:

"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
"He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it" (Romans 14:5,6).

Down through Church history, and even in some lands today, believers have found it very difficult to set aside a definite time for Christian fellowship, Bible study and worship services. How we should praise God for the privilege so freely given to us in the "land of the free" to have a regular day each week which we can devote more wholly to the worship and service of Christ. And how sad to see increasing multitudes of believers forsaking the assembling of the saints, and using even this opportunity for their own pleasure and enjoyment. Surely all excuses for such behavior become insignificant and meaningless when placed alongside the faithfulness of the One who gave His all for us.

Rather than using our liberty "for an occasion to the flesh," may we "by love serve one another" (Galatians 5:13), taking to heart Paul's exhortation:

"Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
"See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
"Redeeming the time, because the days are evil" (Ephesians 5:14-16)

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

God means what He says:
"And hallow my sabbaths, and they shall be a sign between me and you...that you...may know that I AM the LORD your God", (Ezekiel 20:20).

And please people....don't get caught up in the sabbath, is Jewish thing.

WHY ?

Because God blessed the 7th day Sabbath...and made it HOLY, (Genesis 2:2,3) ...some 2300 years...'BEFORE', there ever was a Jew !

BigD responds:
WHY? Because I am not Jewish and Israel is presently set aside.

Exodus 31:17,18 says:
"IT IS A SIGN BETWEEN ME AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL FOR EVER: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He rested, and was refreshed.
"And He gave unto Moses, when He had made an end of communing with him upon Mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God" (Exodus 31:12-18).

Prior to God telling Moses that the children of Isreal should keep the Sabbath Day; Can you SHOW ME any Scripture that says that the 7th day was observed by anyone? Chapter and verse please.

I wonder how many SDA members break the Sabbath travel Laws in order to attend church services? Do you know of any?

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

And AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN!!!!

<:)))><

Silver Surfer Isn’t today a good day...  


http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=4919

<:)))><

PART 1
Silver Surfer posted:
God means what He says:
"And hallow my sabbaths, and they shall be a sign between me and you...that you...may know that I AM the LORD your God", (Ezekiel 20:20).

And please people....don't get caught up in the sabbath, is Jewish thing.

WHY ?

Because God blessed the 7th day Sabbath...and made it HOLY, (Genesis 2:2,3) ...some 2300 years...'BEFORE', there ever was a Jew !

BigD responded:
WHY? Because I am not Jewish and Israel is presently set aside.

Exodus 31:17,18 says:
"IT IS A SIGN BETWEEN ME AND THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL FOR EVER: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He rested, and was refreshed. And He gave unto Moses, when He had made an end of communing with him upon Mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God"

Silver Surfer replies:
"But he is a jew, which is one inwardly...in the heart, in spirit, and not of the letter...but of God", (Romans 2:29).

BigD replies back:
The roots of all believers go back to Abram/Abraham.

In Romans 4:1-3 Paul is writing to believers and there are, no doubt, believing Jews among them. " What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaing to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what sayeth the scriptures? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness."

Paul is refering back to Genesis 15:5,6 before Abram's name was changed to Abraham and before he was commanded to be circumcised. We can see here that Abram was saved/justified just by believing God - FAITH ALONE.  This is how the believer is saved/justified in this dispensation of grace.

Now I will admit that in Genesis 2:2,3 that God did bless the 7th day and make it HOLY, HOWEVER, there is no record in the "some 2300 years" prior to Exodus 16 that the 7th day (Sabbath) was ever required to be kept. PLEASE SHOW ME if I am in error. CHAPTER AND VERSE PLEASE.

It was after the gentile Abram was given the Jewish name of Abraham and commanded to be circumcised that we find James saying in his Epistle 2:21-24 that Abraham was justified by FAITH + WORKS.

While God was dealing with Israel, as a nation, deed/works were the vehicle God used for the children of Israel to demonstarate their FAITH.

I have said all of the above to show that the roots of all believer go back to Abram/Abraham.

Under "CIRCUMCISION AND THE LAW", Chapter 2, in his commentary on Romans, Pastor C.R. Stam says the following:
Circumcision was the token of the covenant God made with Abraham, the rite that separated Israel from the wicked and licentious Gentiles. It spoke of separation to God and death to the flesh and its passions. Under Moses it became part of the Law. This is why circumcision and the Law are so often referred to together (e.g., Acts 15:1,5; Gal. 5:3). Thus the Apostle says:

"For circumcision verily profiteth if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision" (Ver. 25).

This is self-evident, and it explains why Paul wrote to the Galatians, who were tempted to submit to this religious rite:

"I testify again to every man that is circumcised37 that he is a debtor to do the whole law” (Gal. 5:3).

What good to possess the sign without that which it is supposed to signify? Surely the mere possession of the Law, or the mere submission to circumcision did not entitle one to special favor from God. And conversely:

"... if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?" (Ver. 26).

Of course there were no Gentiles who perfectly kept the Law, but some did accept it as God's revealed will and earnestly sought to obey it. This did not save them, but it did place them in a position where God could reveal Himself to them further. We have an example of this in the case of Cornelius the centurion. In Acts 10:34,35 we have Peter saying to Cornelius and his household:

"Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons, but in every nation he that feareth Him and worketh righteousness is accepted with Him."

Peter did not mean that such were saved, for Acts 11:14 clearly indicates that Peter was sent to tell them how to be saved. What he meant, therefore, was that such God-fearing Gentiles were "accepted" by God along with the chosen race, the Circumcision, because they were sincerely trying to do what circumcision taught - and what those of the circumcision so largely failed to do. Thus the Apostle continues:

"And shall not uncircumcision, which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcisionwhich is outward in the flesh:

"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God" (Vers. 27-29).

He does not mean here that the Gentiles could perfectly fulfil the Law, but that when Gentiles sought in heart to obey the Law they condemned those who boasted that they possessed the Law, but failed to sincerely obey it. So God here teaches a twofold lesson: (1) The Law cannot save sinners; it can only condemn them (cf 3:19,20). (2) Religious rites cannot save. External conformity to the rite of circumcision did not meet the true design of the requirement. In a word: Religion cannot save. Cain was religious, but lost. He brought a beautiful offering to God, but God rejected it not only because it was the wrong sacrifice, but also because it was brought in pride rather than in faith. It was no acknowledgment of sin or of the need of salvation or of faith. Millions of religious people today are likewise lost, for they have placed their trust in the Church, their character, their good works, etc., rather than in the Lord Jesus Christ as the One who "died for our sins."

The last two verses of Chapter 2 bring to mind the words of Paul in Phil. 3:3:

"For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the Spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh."

It does not follow from this that God has abrogated His promises to national Israel, or that these promises have been transferred to the Church today. Rather these verses teach that the outward form of religion is not acceptable to God and that He is pleased only with an inward work, the work of the Holy Spirit.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

PART 2
BigD asks:
Prior to God telling Moses that the children of Isreal should keep the Sabbath Day; Can you SHOW ME any Scripture that says that the 7th day was commanded to be observed/observed by anyone? Chapter and verse please.

Silver Surfer answers:
"Because that Abraham obeyed my voice....my commandments...and my Laws..", (Genesis 26:5)

Now....the study of the 4th commandment shows, that God established the 7th day Sabbath, at creation time (Exodus 20:11)...showing the the 4th commandment dates back, to the time of the creation.
So then...Abraham kept God's commandments and laws as scripture says.

BigD responds:
Can you SHOW ME, prior to Genesis 26:5, that God ever commanded Abraham to observe the 7th (Sabbath) day. If that commandment was in effect, SHOW ME chapter and verse. Yes, I have already agreed that God blessed the 7th Day and made it Holy, but there was never a commandment to observe it prior to Exodus 17.
----------------------------------------------------------
BigD asks:
I wonder how many SDA members break the Sabbath travel Laws in order to attend church services? Do you know of any?

Silver Surfer responds:
But, God identifies the SDA church people (true SDA's) in Revelation 12:17, and in Revelation 14:12.

BigD replies:
The fulfillment of the book of the Revelation will happen AFTER the members of the Body of Christ, the Church for today, has been raptured to heaven. Today members of the Body of Christ are not under the Civil, Moral and Ceremonial Laws of Moses, but under grace. Isreal will again be under the Law when the book of the Revelation is being fulfilled.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord

Silver Surfer,

I will simply be nice and say that you should study your Bible once in a while. I doubt you will find much interest in the Sabbath argument here. We've had it so many times that it is nauseating. I rest in Jesus 24/7, and you can too. Use the search function for "Sabbath", and you will have all the material you can stand to study. Those who love to study the Holy Bible do so without the edicts and instructions of Prophetess Elen G. White.

Reference the tribulation period, you can do a similar search on the forum and find a host of Bible Scriptures that most definitely address a 7 year tribulation period. They are fairly difficult portions of Scripture, and they really aren't very appropriate for beginners or babes. Those who love to study the Holy Bible do so without the edicts and instructions of Prophetess Elen G. White.

If you are really interested in these topics, study the mass of information already on the forum.

Tom

BigD responds:
First of all, I have no fear of the Tribulation because I am a member of the Body of Christ, a child of the day. "For God hath not appointed us to wrath (the Tribulation), but to obtain salvation (via the rapture)  by our Lord Jesus Christ" (1Thes5:9).

SS, You have demonstrated your inability to understand the context of Matthew 24:37-42. These verses have nothing to do with the Chruch, the Body of Christ, as it was not MADE until AFTER the Apostle Paul was converted.

The above verses are talking about what will happen when Jesus returns as the Righteous Judge. The ones taken out will be taken out to judgment and the ones remaining will inter the earthly kingdom that Jesus will establish.

We don't find any Scripture concerning the rapture of the Church, the Body of Christ, until After Paul is raised up. The rapture is part of the MYSTERY that was revealed to the Apostle Paul.

Paul tells us in 1Cor15:515-53 about the rapture, as a secret. It cannot be found in prophesy. Also you can read about the rapture in 1Thess4:13-18. Chapter 5:1-9 tell the Thessalonians that they do not have to fear the Tribulation because they are the children of light (vsv5) and not appointed unto wrath (Tribulation) vs 9.

Yes I do know that the therm "7 year tribulation" is not so stated in the Bible. However, If you will study Daniel 9 you will read about "the seventy weeks of years." One week of years is equal to 7 years. When you get to verse 25, you will read about the 70th week.

69 weeks have already passed and the 70th week started in Acts 2. See Acts 2:15-20, however, it was interrupted after God set the nation of Israel aside after the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7. God then raised up the Apostle Paul to usher in "the dispensation of grace" in which we not live. This dispensation also cannot be found in prophesy. This dispensation will end with the rapture of the Chruch, the Body of Christ. THEN the Tribulation & Great Tribulation will resume for the remainder of the 70th week of Daniel.

SS, on the edge of the city in which I grew up, and adjacent to the city I know live in, the Seventh Day Adventist have built a large beautiful church. Being the city is rapidly growing, they, no doubt feel that the city will soon not only grow up to them but also around them.

IMHO there are not enough people living within a "sabbath days journey" of the church to possibly fill more then one pew. But, when I drive by on Saturday, the parking lot is quite full. I suspect that the majority of those car owners are violating the Sabbath Day travel Laws. PLEASE TELL ME what does the Bible teach about what their punishment should be.

Looking forward to your reply.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

I'll give you $100 if you can show one verse from the Bible, about any 7 year tribulation.

Read the threads already on the forum and send your donation to Christians Unite. In fact, send a $100 donation for each and every Bible Scripture.

Tom

It must be remembered that the majority are always wrong regarding religious matters, (Matthew 7:13,14, 21-23)

The sabbath rest is in Christ and it is 24/7. It has nothing to do with protestant or catholic, but Christian.

ollie

Read my post in your other thread you started.
http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=4952
This is where I debunked your rapture theory.
Here is just a sample, of the Rapture.

I Thessalonians 4:16-18
"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ will rise first.  Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up int he air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord.  Therefore encourage each other with these words."
Isaiah 26:19-21  "Your dead will live; their corpses will rise.  You who lie in the dust awake and shout for joy.  For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.  Come, my people, enter into your rooms, And close your doors behind you; Hide for a little while, Until indignation runs its course.  For behold, the Lord is about to come out from his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; and the earth will reveal her bloodshed, and will no longer cover her slain."

Here is some about tribulations. Since you don't like Matthew.
I give you......
Mark. 13:19, 24
John 16:33
Rom. 5:3
2 Cor. 7:4
Eph. 3:13
2Thess. 1:4
Now look up the verses yourself, I don't feel like typing them in.


Please make my donation to ChristiansUnite.

Yes, the Sabbath is the test of loyalty to God.
 http://home.earthlink.net/~se7en_7/

Silver Surfer:
I would appreciate a response to my post #23 above. Would appreciate an answer to my question on the later portion.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord?

If you can show me from scripture where God (Jesus Christ) changed the ',7th day' Sabbath to an 24/7 deal...then I might believe what you are implying....which would make the 4th commandment null and void.

Silver Surfer:
I should have said PLEASE resond to my post #18. Not #23.

Sorry.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

Silver Surfer,

What are the commandments of Jesus Christ? List them please so we can all understand some of your other posts here. I've asked this in two locations since it is critical to attempt to understand your posts.

Tom

 20:3   Thou shalt have no other gods before me.  
  20:4   Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:  
  20:5   Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;  
  20:6   And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.  
  20:7   Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.  
  20:8   Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.  
  20:9   Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:  
  20:10   But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:  
  20:11   For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.  
  20:12   Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.  
  20:13   Thou shalt not kill.  
  20:14   Thou shalt not commit adultery.  
  20:15   Thou shalt not steal.  
  20:16   Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.  
  20:17   Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour's. ", (Exodus, chapter 20)

Silver Surfer,

What are the Commandments of Jesus Christ?

(Matthew 22:35)  Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
(Matthew 22:36)  Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
(Matthew 22:37)  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
(Matthew 22:38)  This is the first and great commandment.
(Matthew 22:39)  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
(Matthew 22:40)  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Interesting thought on Christ's commandments. Christ simplified it all for man. With love for God , one another, and neighbor all the commandments of God as given to Moses are fulfilled in our daily lives. With this love in our hearts we would not go against any one commandment but fulfill them all.
Paul also relates this love in 1 Corinthians 13.

ollie

Brother Ollie,

Our Saviour did much more than simplify - MUCH MORE. We are not under Law - BUT GRACE. There is now an ultimate Law, one that all Christians can easily agree with - THE LAW OF FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. Jesus Christ, Very GOD, died on the CROSS for ALL who will beleive and have faith in HIM. Those who study the Holy Bible understand the purpose for the schoolmaster for the Law of Moses. Those who don't understand rob themselves of the meaning and purpose of the most precious event in the history of mankind - THE CROSS! Those who wish to live under the law must do so perfectly under 600+ laws. Those who wish to live under Grace must do so under the THE LAW OF FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST.

The Gospel of God's Grace is simple enough for a child to understand. In fact, Jesus wants us to come to HIM like a child, regardless of our age when we believe, have faith, and ask HIM to come into our hearts as Lord and Saviour.

There was and is a MOST CRITICAL meaning, purpose, and effect OF THE CROSS!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hi Tom,

I think you misunderstand what I was saying and I am not sure I know how to re-explain it.
I was not talking about living under the Law as given to Moses. I was just trying to say how wonderful Christ summed up all the commandments in these two and if we love God and one another as we should we actually are fulfilling all the ten. Siver Surfer's previous thought which I quoted brought it to my mind. It has nothing to do with the great gift of God obtained through Jesus Christ. That being salvaged from our sin to eternal life. It is more attitude toward God and each other.

Thanks for your great lesson on grace vs. law anyway. I appreciate it.
ollie

Brother Ollie,

I'm glad that you clarified that. I did misunderstand. That's part of the problem with all of these new-fangled devices (i.e. computers, email, forums, etc.). We can't see hand gestures or hear voice tones. We have an inadequate number of smilies to give each other hints.   :D  Brother, I'm sending a BIG OKLAHOMA HUG to you.

Indeed, the GIFT of Jesus Christ on the CROSS for us is very simple, wonderful, and MOST PRECIOUS. The TREASURES we have in JESUS are beyond imagination.

Love In Christ,
Tom

YEP! - You are stuck in the Law and can't get out. Jesus Christ, VERY GOD, can help you get out, and he won't need Moses or the Levite priests.

I think that you finally have me confused. Do you believe that Jesus Christ is VERY GOD, that HE died on the CROSS for you, that HE is THE MESSIAH, that HE is the LORD AND SAVIOUR?

If NOT, you need a different message than the posts I prepared for you. You will need Jesus Christ in your heart as Lord and Saviour before any of those posts will mean anything to you. Let us know. There are many Christians here who will be happy to share Jesus with you.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Jn.5:46-47  "Had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me, for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?"
The Law of Moses is this: the Law was only for the circumcised nation Israel. The Law was never given to the Gentiles, but only to the Jews. Unless you are in Israel, and a Jew, the Law of Moses doesn't apply.

Amen!!

And what church would that be?

The law of ordinances and the ten commandments were all of God and not Moses. They were given to Moses to deliver to the people God had chosen.

ollie

The Holy Bible is the word of Moses?   as Mr. beapster says...



NOT

DUDE, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO KEEP ALL 10 COMMANDMENTS OF GOD...I'M SURE YOU HAVE READ IN ROMANS 3:23 WHERE IT SAYS "FOR ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALLEN SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD" AND JAMES WHERE IT SAYS BASICALLY IF YOU BREAK EVEN ONE COMMANDMENT THEN YOU HAVE SINNED AND BROKEN THEM ALL! Faith is all that we need in order to be saints...a thourogh study of the New Testament book of Hebrews and i'm sure you are familiar with 1 Peter where it say that we are a royal priesthood of Believers. AND IT ALSO DOESN'T TAKE MUCH THOUGHT IN THE WORLD TO REALIZE THAT WE'RE ALL SINNERS AND THAT IT IS ONLY BY GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT LIVING WITHIN US THAT WE ARE ABLE TO EVEN DREAM OF KEEPING GOD'S COMMANDMENTS THE WAY HE ASKS US. We want to obey God, but since we still have this corrupt flesh, we are still prone to sin....yes i said it, we're still prone to sin. that includes you bub. I'm under grace, not the Law. That is why i recieve forgiveness for my sin. IT'S ABOUT GRACE, NOT THE LAW!!! If i was under the law, i'd have no hope of salvation. Get this...while you are still on this earth, there ain't no way you will keep all of God's commandments and from the sound of it, it seems like you're saying that we can do it...nuh uh...that's wrong. Apart from God we can do nothing...not even save ourselves. So if you wanna sit there and condemn those who don't keep all then of God's commandments...i suggest you do a serious inventory of your status with Jesus Christ...cause if you believe that being a Christian means you gotta do all 10 commandments, then you're disregarding what Jesus Christ did. God knew that we wouldn't be ever be able to hold all 10 of the commandments at once. WE'RE SINNERS. That's why He sent Jesus Christ, to free us from the Law. Get it? I hope you do...but if you don't...i'm sorry.

God Bless,

In His Service,
Joshua