ChristiansUnite Forums

I'm new to the forum and have questions.

As someone who was raised with no firm religious beliefs of any type I'd like some insight as to why you think Christianity is the right way. I'm not here to flame or troll, I simply want opinions :)

If God is an 'all knowing (past, present, future) God' then here are my questions:

1. Why are there people on this Earth who have never heard of Christianity? In some countries in the world, Christianity was forced upon people in a cruel manner (past and present), is this how an 'All-knowing God' wanted "The Word" to be known?

2. What happens to the people who have still never heard of Christianity? Do they go to Heaven, Hell or simply disappear - even in the 'after-life'? There must be tens of thousands who still have never heard of Christianity or anything related to the Bible.

3. Comparison:
a; A non-religious person commits crimes throughout their life and on their death bed they finally ask for forgivness.

b; A religious person commits crimes in their lifetime and doesn't ask for forgiveness, they figure they have in made as they  believe.

c; A non-religious person lives a good life, never stealing or hurting anyone.

Who goes to Heaven and why?

4. Why would an 'All-knowing* God' create a races of very different people on this planet and then make puppets out of their lives? I certainly hope my life is not predetermined, if it is, then whats the point of it?

This is more of a comment/opinion than a question however;
If you were an 'all powerful God', wouldnt you create a perfect life; one with no anger, one with no fear, one with no war, etc. and most of all, a people who know you right from the start. It would be quite easy for a God and the people you create would not know the difference, as negativity would not be in their nature.

Anduril

a. Because the world is a big place  :D  
b. By its mere nature, true believers would not force Christianity on anyone.  They are instructed to preach the gospel, not take prisoners.   Though your scenario may have happened in history, I certainly do not believe it to be the way God intended his word to be known.


If God is an all knowing God, does he know who will and will not accept him already?   How do we know that people who have never heard the name Jesus would actually accept it?  However, God being all knowing does know.   That doesn't answer the question, but it is a point to consider.

Another thought that is scriptural concerning this is...

Rom 1:20  For the unseen things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being realized by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, for them to be without excuse.

Man is without excuse when he examines creation around him.  The handywork of God is visible in all things created.  I fully believe that every man comes to the question at some point in his life of, how did we get here?  Where did we come from?  The inevitible question of is there a God?   If man truely wants to know this, God will move heaven and earth to bring the seeking heart his truth and mercy.   I heard a story about a tribe of people (somewhere in indonesia?) in a remote place.  A missionary went to this place to spread the Gospel.  The tribe leader told the missionary that He and his people had been worshipping this God, but they didn't know his name was Jesus.   Just goes to show that even people in remote locations are capable of knowing God even though they may have never heard his name.


Religion has nothing to do with it.  He would be Forgiven if his request was genuine.


Again, religion has nothing to do with it.  Paying lip service to God and actually receiving and doing Gods will are two different things.   This inidvidual as you have described would be in trouble at judgment time.


Religion wont cut it.  Acts of goodness wont cut it either.


Born again believers go.  Non believers don't.

Joh 3:3  Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


Is foreknowledge causetive or non-causetive?   If you knew what the lotto numbers were going to be tomorrow, does that mean you made them happen, or that you knew that they would happen?



If you read Genesis, I think you will see that that is exactly what God did  :)    He even said, it is GOOD!   God didn't make man rebel, mans heart did.  A heart that needed to be free to choose in order to show genuine Love to his creator.  If God made robots, he would never know the true love and worship he wants from his creation.

BTW, Welcome to CU Anduril!


Grace and Peace!

The mere fact that it happens is proof that God didn't plan it.  If he had, then it would happen perfectly.   ;)   As I said before, foreknowledge is non-causetive.   Knowing your mom or dad will visit next week does not make it happen....you just know it ahead of time.


When God looks at the heart of man, he is looking for holiness and sinlessness.  Are you sinless?  Never done any wrong?  Only Christ was sinless, and he died for all mans sins.  By asking God to forgive your sins, and inviting Christ into your heart you too can be saved.   In our eyes, murder is much more terrible than say stealing.  In Gods eyes, its all sin, and that sin regardless how mi-nute it is, seperates us from God.   However, we can come to Christ just as we are, and he will forgive us, and cleanse of us our sin so that we can have fellowship with God.   Makes no difference what you've done!   He is ready and waiting.   The call is all yours.



You seem stuck on the point that because God knows everything, its somehow his fault.  God didn't make Rambo, you did!   ;)  (sorry I love that movie).   Let me put to you like this.  Death is a certainty is it not?   We all know that it is coming, even though we don't want it to.   Our having foreknowledge of this does not make death happen.  It also does not make us wrong because we know it will happen.  In fact, we are right when we say it will happen, because it will.   We also don't give up on life because we know we are going to die.   God didn't make us die, we did, because we are sinners.  Because WE rigged it, sin's grasp has a death hold on all of us.  He provided the escape, and did all the ground work to release us from the situation we put ourselves into.


 :)   On the contrary, God set man up to succeed.  He provided man with all that was needed.  Man rebeled and chose to believe God had kept something from him.  Even so, God  went  a step further and provided a way back for man.  God has set you up for success anduril.   You can choose right now to succeed, by asking Christ into your heart.   You have foreknowledge about how life will end.  Death is immenant.  Christ died so you could have life.   An all knowing anduril should not make the story end in death having foreknowledge of that fact.  Life can be yours by accepting Christ today!   Having this foreknowledge, you are armed with the ability to choose.  God being all knowing, knew you before you even happened.  He died for you.  He chose you!  He is waiting.  The real question is, what will you choose?  I  promise you wont regret choosing Him.

Grace and Peace!

2nd Timothy Life is a terminal illness; God's son is the cure.

God did not set us up for failure. He gave us the gift of free will so that we could love and worship him as he does us. Since he is a Sovereign God, he knew that we would rebel against him. The only thing that for me passes as a logical explination for why he created us knowing this, is that he was already willing to give his son for us. He loved us that much before he even created us.

God is all-seeing, all-knowing and omnipotent in the fullest sense. He does knows yet does not manipulate our hearts (to simply bend us to his will would not bring him or us the same joy as worshiping him freely), so he knows who will accept his gift to us and who will not. not everyone is reached before death to be told about Christ and God's plan for us, (the world population of >6 billion is growing by the second) yet since he knows what they would chose, I believe he has a plan for those people too.

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." John 3:17

Welcome to CU Anduril =)

~Orion

I admit its a difficult thing to wrap ones mind around for sure.   The difference is, in a sims game, the people you create do not love and worship you.  They just trudge along following the program code as it was written.  They have no choice in the matter, and you do not receive true love from them....only entertainment.   God created man to fellowship with, to love, to care for and provide all his needs.   He also desires love, trust, fellowship, praise and worship in return.  Things that He truely does deserve because of his greatness.   God doesn't want anyone to perish.   He chose all men!

2Pe 3:9  The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

He loves all men, and doesn't want to see any of them perish.  But God will not force them to be robots and run the program, because that would take away mans ability to truely Love and serve Him.   God wants your genuine Love.  Not his own programming through you back to Him.  In order to get your genuine Love, He has to allow you to choose between running (loving) your own life, over Loving Him.  


If you want to find peace and love beyond and above anything you've ever known, I know someone who can help friend.   ;)



Being a Christian is not about going through the motions.  All the Bible reading and praying in the world doesn't make you a Christian.   Its about entering a genuine relationship with God.   This must happen first!   When you accept Christ into your heart, His Holy Spirit takes up residence there.  You become united with Him and begin to walk your life in Him.  Whatever touches you touches Him literally.   You become flesh of his flesh, bone of his bone.  A new person!   But that can only happen by confessing your sins to him and inviting him into your life.    After doing this, scripture will begin to make sense where it did not before.   Your eyes will be opened to truth!   You are fighting a loosing battle trying to make those changes on your own.   He has to do it through you.


You can't be Christian for your wife.   This is part of what you missed the first time around.   You must realize that your sins, is what put Jesus Christ on the cross.  He died because of you and me anduril.  

Rom 3:23  For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Isa 53:5  But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6  All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Rom 10:13  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Rom 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


He made the way for you and me.  Every wrong you have ever done, or ever will do is payed for by his blood.   Confess to him your sins, receive forgivness by faith, and confess with your mouth that He is your Lord, and you will begin a new journey in Him.   That journey is a life long commitment, and at times might be difficult.   But He promises never to foresake you or leave you.   Don't do it for your wife, do it for Him.   Do it because of what He did for you!


Don't wait...

2Co 6:2  for he says, "At an acceptable time I listened to you, in a day of salvation I helped you." Behold, now is the acceptable time. Behold, now is the day of salvation.


Jesus is ready now anduril.   You don't know what may happen tomorrow.  The opportunity is here today, whereas it may not be tomorrow.  Wont you take it?

I'll be praying for you friend.   Feel free to send me a private message if you need to.

Grace and Peace!

anduril quote...

 
 I agree with 2nd Tim - Don't wait.
Can you guarantee that you will even be alive tomorrow? how about later tonight? what about two minutes, or half a second from now? Once you die, it's too late my friend - this is about eternal salvation vs eternal damnation anduril - what could possibly be more important than that?

 Four and a half years ago, we learned that my brother had a terminal cancer - he was 42 at that time, and was married with four young daughters. He had a choice to make, between having as little as a few months to live, or having a highly risky surgery which could result in his instant death on the operating table, or, extend his life for a year, or at the outside, two years. He opted for the surgery. My family and I waited in the hospital, anxiously for nine hours while the surgery took place. Nurses kept preparing us for the worst. As I sat waiting, I suddenly became extremely afraid - I was actually more terrified than I can ever remember being in my entire life - and having lived a "biker" lifestyle prior to being saved, I can assure you, I have been through some extremely intense scary situations - and yet, here I was - safely sitting in a hospital waiting room surrounded by family, and I was terrified! Why? because I suddenly realized that I hadn't shared Jesus with my brother - I didn't even know if he even believed in God! Isn't that bizarre? I shared Jesus with many, many people in the previous years since I became saved, but was "embarrassed" to speak to Jim about Him. I knew that if Jim died on that table, a few short yards away from where I was sitting, that he would be doomed to eternal Hell! So, I began to pray that God would give Jim some extra time, so that I could get to work on him.

 The surgeon approached us with a grim look on his face, and all of our hearts sunk. "Jim survived the surgery, but we don't know if he will survive the night".....Those words just hung in the air, as we all listened to them - we were all helpless to do anything, and we knew it...it's a very hollow feeling my friend.

 They let us go up to the critical care room to see my brother immediately following his surgery. Jim had pancreatic cancer, and the surgery is called "whipple' and is extremely intrusive - I won't go into details here, however, if you want to understand the severity of this surgery, I suggest that you look it up on your computer.

 When I saw Jim I was shocked, and had to practically bite my tongue to keep from busting out crying. I have never seen a human being (alive) that looked in any worse shape - I will not describe it.

 Again, nurses kept trying to prepare us for the worse.

 Amazingly, and against the odds, Jim survived the surgery, and began to recover in the following couple of weeks in hospital. One night, I found myself in the hospital as well. I have pancreas trouble as well, and I had an attack. I was all dummied up on intravenous painkillers, when I borrowed my room mates wheelchair to go visit my brother. I wasn't even supposed to sit up in bed - however, I asked my wife to bring me a Bible, and after she left, I made my way up a few floors, and somehow found Jim's room.
 He was shocked to see me wheel into the room complete with goofy hospital issued gown! We had a short conversation, then I slapped the Bible down on his bed beside him. He gave me the strangest look, and before he could comment, I told him to listen, and I related to him my feelings as they came about in the waiting room during his surgery. I told him to start reading John, and that we would discuss it when he was home. I took Jim to all his chemo and radiation treatments, and watched the devastating effects take place...it was heartbreaking my friend.

 To shorten up, Jim and I spent many, many hours discussing all aspects of God/Jesus - the historical, non Biblical evidence - archaeology - evolution vs creation - why God did certain things etc. I studied harder than I ever did in my life to find all the answers he required. Jim was not quick to accept a God that was going to take him way from his girls. Jim made it a full year...and then another full year. His doctors were amazed that he made it that long, and Jim kept trying to figure a way out of the situation he was in - he never accepted the fact that he would die one day, and sooner than later. His doctors kept trying to prepare him for his inevitable, inescapable fate, and Jim wouldn't have any of it.

 When the third year went by, Jim finally accepted Jesus...It was NewYears eve of 2002.

 On Feb 4 2002 we got a frantic phone call from my niece. "Dad fell on the kitchen floor, please come quick!" My wife and I arrived at the house about ten minutes later. Jim was on the floor with his head cradled in his oldest girls lap. I rushed into the kitchen and looked into his eyes...I could see he wasn't there anymore. I felt hfor a pulse, and there was none. All his girls were home, and two of their friends were visiting at the time. I don't want to even remember the horrible reaction that followed. Thank God in Heaven that He was merciful enough to answer my prayer, and give Jim the exact amount of time he needed to accept Jesus!!!

 I hate relating this story my friend...it makes me cry and it hurts very much to relay it. However, God uses these tragic events in our lives to reach others...to draw us closer to Him...as a matter of fact, I believe we are closest to God in our darkest hours.

 You don't have the luxury of time my friend...tomorrow is not guaranteed, and not promised. Ask Him into your life NOW! He will come, He promises it. He keeps His promises.

 It won't make your flowers grow higher, or more colorful my friend - however, you will remain with your wife after your time is done here...He guarantees it. To all who believe, salvation and eternal glory with Him.

 Bronzesnake.
 

BronzeSnake,

Your letter hit hard, I felt as if I was there with you. I am indeed sorry for your loss. My Dad also had cancer that matastised so quickly the doctors said they had never seen anything like it. After only one day in the hospital he passed away. Unfortunately, atleast to my knowledge, he did not accept God. 5 hours before he  passed my Dad was in great discomfort. Here was a man who never showed much emotion wrathing in bed even though he was under heavy drugs. He couldn't speak and his eyes hardly opened. I shook and wept like never before, its an image I'll never forget.

BroneSnake /  2nd Tim,

Losing a loved one or friend is beyond anything anyone should go through. I don't intend to lose anyone I know for eternity, I want to be with them. My family and friends who believe in God know where they are going, I want, no, I need to be there too!

This instant as I write this I feel scared, anxious, happy and heavy hearted all at the same time. I think I know why but, my stubborness and 'free spirit' is getting in the way again. How did you feel when God was asking you to have Him in your life? What did you say or ask?

This may be irrelevant and it may not however, it is the truth; I had a reoccuring dream when I was a boy. Every time I had a fever the same dream would happen;

I'm walking on a dirt road/lane that seems endless. On one side of the lane there is a old solid wood fence (you can't look between the boards) about 8-9' high and total black behind it, so black it has no depth.

On the other side of the lane is a shear drop, you can not see the bottom however, it is total white. In the dream I never look directly into the light but out of the corner of my eye I see a figure with even brighter beems of light around him.

There is a constant endless hum around me, best described as... very odd, low, bass type drone.

Then the dream ends. It's very detailed, more than I can explain.

Anduril

I would say it sounds as if the He is calling you friend.  I felt very similar when I gave my heart to the Lord.

If you want to be saved, say the following prayer....

Dear Lord, I know I am a sinner.  I know that you died for my sins Jesus.  I ask you now, to come into my life and forgive me of my sins.   I commit my life to you this very moment, and accept you into my life right now.  Thank you Lord Jesus!

Amen!

Friend, if you pray that prayer, and mean it in earnest....YOU WILL BE SAVED.   If you pray this prayer, I want to know about it!   Confess with your mouth, that Jesus is Lord!  Don't listen to the thoughts in your head.  Listen to your heart!  The still small voice thats pleading.

Rev 3:20  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.


Grace and Peace!

anduril...my brother...

 I am so sorry about your Dad. I understand that pain. Just yesterday, I attended the funeral of a friend from Church. He was 63 years old, and had a heart attack while recovering from a horrible car crash. Bill, was so positive of his faith, that he told the doctors that he was in a win-win situation... Theses are his exact words, and he spoke them with a cheerful attitude and absolute confidence "If I recover from this accident, and all the surgery, I can go home and spend more time with my family...If I die, then I'm going home to be with Jesus!" The funeral home Bill was at, is the same one my brother was in. I was caught off guard there. I had to pray very hard for strength from God, in order to keep the tears back. It was a struggle, but God came through.

 I believe 2ndTim is right on the money. The "endless" road you saw represented eternity - on one side, eternal damnation, and on the other side eternal salvation in Heaven. I believe the dark fence which you could not see through, and the noise, represent satan trying to block out the truth. However, he isn't up to the job - Jesus always finds a way through - that's the light you describe. It's up to you to ignore satan's attempts to blind and deafen you, and trust what your spirit is telling you.

 I also had a repeating dream when I was a child. In my dream - I was at the bottom of a steep paved road - I actually recognized the road, as one that was just down the street from our home at that time. I attempted to walk up the hill, but I didn't get very far up, when I began to slide down to the bottom. Each time I had that dream, I would get a wee bit higher up, only to slide right back down to the bottom again. It was very frustrating for me, even as a child. As time passed ( years ) the dream continued, only at times, I would get almost half way up, and begin to slide down, but not all the way to the bottom. Then I would dream again, and I would slide all the way down. Finally, after several years of the dream ( not every night, but perhaps, once or twice a month) I finally reached the top!

For years the dream hung over me like peanut butter on the roof of my mouth...I was perplexed. I knew the dream had some kind of significance, I simply couldn't put it together.

 Then, one day it hit me. The dream had mimicked my spiritual journey! When I was very young, some friends and I were playing at a favorite parking lot...a church parking lot. The church was tiny, I'll bet it only held twenty people. One day, the pastor approached us, and asked to to see if our parents would allow us to attend a "children's" service. So I went, and I immediately connected, I felt instantly that I was "home"

 As I recall, I only attended twice, then the rest of my life went on pretty much without God until I was around twelve, when, once again, Mom "forced" me to attend church...I was bored stiff each Sunday for two whole hours...little did I know, that those early encounters with God, would one day find me a born again Christian. It was an up and down ride though - exactly as my dream had depicted. I made it to the top of the hill my brother, and so will you!!! God gives us these dreams, to prove to us that He knows everything from past, present, and future, He uses such methods to make us secure in our faith. God knew I would struggle with Him for many years. He knew my sliding would be substantial. He also knew I would eventually be saved by Jesus.

 He knows your doubts. He understands satan's methods, and He has given you enough of His light to guide you around satan's traps. Turn and face His light full on my brother, and He will transform you, I guarantee it.

Bronzesnake.

 anduril quote...

Quote:
As I mentioned, I don't know where this will lead. See what happens tomorrow, turn the page

I agree with 2nd Tim and BRNZ - Don't wait.

I have lost my wife, she was killed. I know though, she will be with God now, (the Rapture.)

Rev 3:20  Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Knowing 2T or BRNZ one of them have posted a prayer, of salvation for you.
Pray that prayer, mean it with all your heart. God will hear you and come to be with you. You will find that you will be at peace, with yourself. This is because of Gods, presents with you.

 D.W. my friend...my brother...my heart goes out to you. That kind of loss is very painful. Thank God in Heaven for the blessed hope.

Bronzesnake.

Anderil,
You give me the impression that you want to believe, but your not done having fun.  :D  Is that it?
You also have an edge of anger in your statements.

We are all sinners, and yet God loves us all. He gave His only begotten  Son to die in our place ,on the cross.
Jn.3:16 reads, "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

The following was one of my late husband's favorite passage's.
He's in heaven with the Lord now.
Rev.3:20 "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come to him and dine with him and he with me."
God is knocking at the door of your heart, otherwise you wouldn't be here now. Will you invite Him into your heart?
What a thrill it is to be born again. The Lord will never leave you. My prayers are with you.

God bless you,
bluelake.

Boy.  I tell ya, it isn't everyday you see a battle for a soul.  Anduril?  You've been given the truth.  You just need to believe it now.  Tangata?  You need the same truth Tim gave.  I'm praying ya both believe.   :)

 Being a believer in our own "views" won't get us to Heaven my friend. Believing 100% in the Word of God does. If our beliefs are contrary to God's Word, then we are wrong...period.

Bronzesnake.

Thank you BRNZ, I know in my heart and soul where she is, (to borrow a term "looking up.") I know I will see her again. This is why I won't marry again. She is my soul mate, something that rarely happens in this world. Jesus has helped my deal with my lost, easing my heart and lighting my soul.
For their is only one worthy, my Lord, my God, Jesus Christ. Who died for everyone of us, to cleanse our souls. That we may one day be with him for ever, and ever.

And now you dismiss my views as contrary to God's word.  If you are a free-willist then would you call a Calvinist a non-Christian, because you believe his views to be contrary to the Word of God?  Vice versa applies as well.

But so quickly it is said that I need The Truth, as if everyone but me is so enlightened.  I do not want to be disruptive, but how arrogant is that?  And without even asking me why I believe what I believe.  It is promised on this board that we can share our views and opinions on things.  I am a Christian who was sharing his views on things, and I was told that 1) I am not saved, and 2) my posts which state what I believe, which I think are biblically grounded, were deleted immediately.

I want to get along with everyone here, and I think this is entirely possible if we just relax and don't jump to conclusions.

Did you perchance delete a post, or did BEP?  The reason I ask is that I perceived you weren't a Christian when you referred to Jesus as, and I quote, "your Christ."  Most believers use a possessive noun there my friend.  :) If He's not your Christ...then how can you claim to be Christian?  I only ask because now proof of that post is no longer available.   :)

I probably did say "your" Christ, without realizing it.  I speak in that way a lot when I'm talking to other people and not about myself.  I think I referred to Him like that in a post on self-defense.  But anyway I can definitely see how you would assume otherwise.

As far as the idea that I was mocking God goes, I called the orders to completely destroy an entire group of people (men,women,children,animals) genocide.  If that was the incorrect term, I apologize.

For my beliefs, if they were mocking God, they simply are Open Theist views.  God does not know the future, because I do not believe the future yet exists... that coupled with free will.  Such things as Genesis 22:12 (NOW I know), when God "regrets" putting Saul into power in Samuel.  When God changes his mind thanks to Moses (he was to destroy the israelites, but Moses said that it'd only make the egyptians think God led them away in order to kill them, so god RELENTED).  A lot of people like to use the blanket word, anthropomorphism to cover all such instances.  "God was only speaking in terms we, as humans, could understand."  But apparently now, we are so enlightened that we understood his true meaning...  right?

Then as for all-power, I believe that God has given up some power in realm of free-will, and actually accepts our input into things (such as Moses asking God to not kill them).

All this could be found in books by John Sanders, William Haster, Clark Pinnock, Gregory Boyd, etc.  We believe that not only is it biblically grounded, but that it (theologically) requires a much more intimate personal God.  A very loving one.

However, I am not going to post here anymore, because this is all mockery, and blackeyedpeas does not want it.  If anyone wants to discuss our beliefs, richallen 1221 is my AIM.  Bye.

tangata quote...

 
 I was making a general statement - not directed specifically at you...perhaps you should take your own advice - especially inlight of some statements you have made, including the following....

 
Bronzesnake

Hmmm.  So is it safe to say there is a group of athiest attempting to convert people here at CU?   There does seem to be quite a few posts concerning this topic as of late.  

Thanks for the offer....if you wish to discuss Christ and how he has changed our lives and can change yours, our address is Christiansunite.com

Grace and Peace!

Just bumping this up, I am watching, waiting and praying for you Anduril.
Gods grace is so sweet....

musicllover

Amen musiclover.   Anduril, where you at buddy?  We don't want to run you off   :D   Theres several people here, and a few of my other friends who are praying for you.  

Grace and Peace!

Yupyup!   :)  Jesus loves you Anduril.  He wants you to know Him, and I'm prayin' you do!  

Thank you all for your comments and support, I really do appreicate it.

BlueLake,

You are right, I do have a slight tone but, not of anger, more like frustration ...and rightly so. I was raised with an 'open-mind' (how you define that is up to you ;) ). I never had great debates of my or other people's beliefs. Observing people debate which way is right (for them) tore people apart further, sometimes it made them unite out of respect as well. My attitude is whatever works for You is best.

Everyone,

Here is the last 3 years of my life; I never questioned my wifes belief system nor did I try to change it. It is not my place to do so. I however, really did try to change my lifestyle to match hers. Doing this for almost 2 years has stressed me out emotionally and mentally. This is not a healthy way too live. So, I have dropped back into 'my way' of living...being honest, true and caring for my family. I Love my Family more than Anything or Anyone. If a Creator does not understand this then I don't want to understand them.  

It would be like you leaving God and all his teachings...could you even attempt that? I'm not saying I'm a better person, I'm just saying I gave it my best. It's just not me, I was never a team player either...I have always relied on myself. However, there are some things I have gained and I have met some very caring people, etc.

I promised my Wife I'd always go to Church with her and that promise will continue.

What happens after this life?  Will I eventually come to know God? Who knows. Life changes all the time. For right now I can honestly say I'm not comfortable with becoming a Christian. I have too many questions and too many doubts. If there is a God  then he/she knows this.

I can say one thing without a doubt: Nothing and no individual (of any form) can keep me from seeing my family after this life.
Bravado? Maybe.
Strong Spirit? Definately!

 :D

hey there!
You said in your post that you wished that your life was not predestined. And then you went on saying if God was All Knowing and the Creator then why didn't he just make us all know him from the beginning.

The reason for that is free will. God gives you the oppurtunity to have eternal life with him. It is up to us to either refuse his gift or take his gift. God loves us enough that he sent Jesus to die for us now you can accept this or not.
 I pray that this helped you at least a little bit. :) God bless
And if you have any more questions fill free to ask. :)

If God is all knowing like the Bible says he is then there is no such thing as 'free will'.

If God already knows the direction we are going to take it is because he layed it out ahead of time (All knowing past, present, future). Therefore, ours is a predetermined life.

I really hope life is not like that.

Friend I thought you had flown the coupe.  Glad you came back!  

I understand your frustration anduril.     Changing to suit someone is not how it works at all.  And yes, God does understand this.   He knows you needed a saviour...this is why you couldn't do it yourself.   Jesus Christ lived this life and experienced all the dificulties you experience.  He understands the stress you feel.   If you want to experience true freedom from that stress, come to Him and invite Him into your life.  You will never feel more freedom and peace in this life I garuntee.<sp>



Your best, or my best will never be enough anduril.   Have you ever met anyone who was willing to die for you?  Someone who would give their own life because they loved you even though you let yourself down?   Jesus did that for you friend.   He was willing to take a beating of unimaginable proportions.   They spit on him. Hit him in his face. They beat him with whips containing small pieces of glass that ripped his flesh.  They nailed him to a cross.  He took your sin with Him to that tree, and put it to death with himself.   Your sin deserved all those things that He bore.  Yet, He did not.  But He took all these things on Himself.  Why?  Because of His Love for you.   Are you willing to rely on yourself to take what sin is capable of dishing out?    Sin has you in its prison.   The charges have been laid against you, and guilty is the only plea you can enter.   Jesus took those charges on himself, nailed it to the door of your prison cell and wrote, PAID IN FULL!  But you must claim it by faith.  Refusing His free gift, you must pay the debt yourself.   Don't turn Him away.   He did it out of Love for you.  


The reason you feel uncomfortable is because it means admitting you are a sinner.  Guilt is like carrying a bag of bricks.   Most people lug it around without cause.   Its quite simple though.  Just put the bag of bricks down and walk into life through Him.   It is a choice.  God knows your heart.  He knows exactly how you feel.   This is why He's calling you.  Calling you to freedom.  

When you stand before God, and He asks you..." Why should I let you into my kingdom?"   How will you answer?   When He says, "when you heard of my Son and how He paid for your Sins, why did you refuse my pardon, My Son, Jesus Christ?"  What if He says to your answer, "I have too many doubts and too many questions, after I showed you the way, and you chose not to believe."   What a frightful thing.

You are not here by any small chance anduril.  God has lead you to HIS truth.   Your heart tells you this truth.  He is calling your spirit to life.  Don't let your fleshy doubts and questions rob you of what your heart knows to be true.

I continue praying for you.  I know that His Holy Spirit is calling you today friend.   Please don't wait.  Receive Him while the opportunity is here.   God is the God of all, and He's calling you today for a reason.  No one but Him knows what tomorrow brings.  Don't take that chance.  He's calling you because He Loves you and wants to know you.

Grace and Peace!

Thanks for the welcome back Tim :)

I should have been more clear when I said I had tried to change my life to make my wife happy. At the very same time I did accept Christ into my life. I dropped all that I was for almost 2 years, a Very hard thing to do. I found myself getting uncomfortable...I was tired and getting sick more often...basically, stressed out. After a time I began to reassess my beliefs, and disbeliefs.  I wasn't living the life I was use to, I was lying to myself and my family - I realized Christianity was not the answer. After a few months my health and energy turned back to 'normal'.

Everyone has their good and bad points, everyone does something unacceptable during their lifetime. You have to find out what that something is and correct it or atleast accept it.  

A bit off topic for a momment:

Do you know what cancer is? It's a very universal word actually, and I don't mean in the cosmic sense ;) Cancer is a problem or a way your body is telling you something is not right. This problem your body is having could be a stress of some type or something you have carried around with you for a long time.

Some people turn to violence, some people steal, some people get an illness. Depending on the person this is a way the body warns or lets you know there is something wrong. Some people don't know what the stress or problem is; the violent person kills and does so until they are caught. The theif steals until they are found out. The 'cancer' manifests until the person dies.  

Basically, the way you live your life and the things you do in that time affect you either in a positive way or a negative way.

Back on topic:

If I was to pretend to be someone I wasn't, especially to those I love and care for it would be my undoing. If would also be unfair to my family. I can't be Christian, just like you can't live the way I'm use to.

I really do appreciate the warm welcome and personal events people have shared with me. However, until I am 100% comfortable in whatever direction I go I can't see myself taking another route.

On a somewhat dry humor note; I'll know what to do if the Rapture happens ;)

Perhaps you never really surrendered your life to Him.  It sounds as if perhaps you were making the changes, not Christ?



I couldn't agree more, but of course I'm thinking from a different perspective than you are.   ;)



The things we do in this life will soon equal zero.   Its going to vanish away into mere dust.  The only thing that will last forever is an eternity based on one descision.  Whether or not to allow Him mastery over your life.  



You're right.  You can't be Christian!   Only Christ can do that through you.  It still sounds to me as if you were making the changes you thought were christian in order to make those around you happy.  This is not a commitment to Christ.  With Christ, you come as you are.  He will address the issues in your life.  In fact, He is still addressing issues in my life and I have been saved over 13 years now.  I can't imagine trying to be Christ like without Christ.  Its impossible.




Again I have to agree with you on one point.  You will never see yourself taking another route.  It can only happen as the Holy Spirit leads.  Me nor anyone else in the forum can move your heart towards Him.  Yes we can share the gospel with you, but your heart being stirred must happen from Him.  This is why its so important not to ignore him while He calls.


I don't say this to scare you, but there is scripture that leads me to believe otherwise.   Paul says that those who clearly hear the gospel and understand it now, will be blinded to truth and not be able to come to salvation after the rapture.

2Th 2:9  Even him [the Antichrist], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


You are playing with fire literally friend.  Don't walk away from the truth having fully understood it.  If I understand this verse right, You will not able to find the truth after the rapture if you have fully understood it and reject it now.

Today is the day of salvation.  Don't wait till its too late!  Listen to the still small voice in your heart.  He doesn't want your attempts to change.  He wants you to come as you are.  Bring all your sin with you to the cross.  Bring all your concerns with you to the cross.  Hand it over to him and watch the changes HE is able to make in your life.  He is able to do the impossible in your life.  But He can't do it until you ask Him to.

I'm still praying for you buddy.  Me and boat load of other people here and elsewhere.  You are not slipping under Gods radar.  He is hearing your name everday now by many different people.  God wants to know you more than you can imagine.   He Loves you anduril, and so do we.

Grace and Peace!

Anduril,


 A thought just occured to me.  We have been talking about a relationship with Christ.   Do you understand what it means to be lost?  Its hard to understand salvation without first understanding this.

Grace and Peace!

Tim,

I guess by the Bible's definition I am lost. You also assume I am lost as you are set in one direction now. To be honest, I feel happier and even more at rest now that I don't have the full pressure of trying to be someone I'm not.

Tim, you mentioned in another forum that you were wondering why a group of atheists maybe be trying to change the minds of people here. You may have noticed I have not said you or anyone else is wrong. This would be a futile attempt by me (or anyone else). Yet everyone here has tried to suggest (directly or indirectly) that I am wrong with my beliefs...or in my case, not beliving in any one direction.

All I came here for is to get opinions and answers. It may or may not help me move towards God. I never make important decissions 'now', I always analyze. This method has always worked for me. It's not like I'm going to school myself about every religion in the world to see which one fits me - who would have time for that? ;)

All things aside, if I live a good life and respect my family and friends that is currently all that matters to me. They are in the here and now, they are affected by my dissicions, they deserve my attention in every way. I'm not perfect, nobody is but, I can do my best.

As mentioned before, if God exists and can't see that I'm honest to others then fine, be that way. Creating people, setting them up to rise or fall and then deciding their eternal fate doesn't sound good to me especially if you have the power to prevent evil in the first place. Never introduce evil into the equation and the people you create wouldn't know the difference anyway. So why the need for evil, its just silly.

Anyway, I'll stop the beginnings of what might become a rant and end it at that. ;)

Good answer!  You are at rest with your fallen nature, there is no conflict with righteousness in your members.  You have provided the evidence in your answer that righteousness is not attainable by actions on your part.  I have made no assumptions, I simply know the answer and apparently you do too.   ;)   There is absolutely nothing you or I can do to be righteous and pure in the eyes of God....notta, zilch, zippo.  The moment we start trying, it becomes extremely evident how impossible it is for us to do it, as you have described.


Actually, I am not the one saying anyone is wrong.  God is.  I am simply repeating HIS words, not mine.  I am in the same boat of humanity you are in.  Only I have chosen to believe His words and accept the truth that I am not worthy of anything.  I can only rely on Him for that.


I understand.  Like I said before, I cannot make you or convince you of anything, I can only share the truth that I understand and pray that you will receive it.   Only God can move the heart, its up to the individual to respond.   Only YOU can make that choice....and only YOU will be able to answer for that choice.  No one else.


Again I completely understand.  I too am human and know all too well how you feel here.  But I also know how much more God is able to direct my life in a manner that has ultimate affect on my family memebers.   I am a better person for it, they see this in my life, and know its because of God and His working in my life.  He is the reason, not me.


If I never allowed my children to fail, they would never know or understand the depth of my love for them, nor would I be able to share in their trust and reliance on me for that.  

God made a sovereign choice to create mankind with will, intellect, emotion and moral reason that corresponds to His own personality. One of the reasons He did this was so that he could give us the ability to choose independently of His will. This was a calculated risk God was willing to take in order that He could create us with the ability to experience His love and to love Him back. Without freedom of choice, there can be no love nor fellowship. Robots cannot love.

Reasoning away a need for evil does not erase God, because you are all too aware that evil does exist, therefore, God too must also exist.

Grace and Peace!

For the most part, I am at rest because I'm not being presured into Christianity. It also makes me uncomfortable hearing different points of view for what seems like different types of Christianity, atleast on the surface; ie: Protestant, Pentacostal, Catholic, Mennonite, etc.

Then all the other religions of the world, where did they come from? did God create them? All the people in the Bible are mainly from the Middle East, I'm pale and fair haired. Explain the different skin and hair tones? All the different languages? Difficult to understand why the Christian way (or any religion) is the 'right' way.

The top 20 I pasted below with figures from 2002;

1. Christianity: 2 billion
2. Islam: 1.3 billion
3. Hinduism: 900 million
4. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million
5. Buddhism: 360 million
6. Chinese traditional religion: 225 million
7. primal-indigenous: 150 million
8. African Traditional & Diasporic: 95 million
9. Sikhism: 23 million
10. Juche: 19 million
11. Spiritism: 14 million
12. Judaism: 14 million
13. Baha'i: 6 million
14. Jainism: 4 million
15. Shinto: 4 million
16. Cao Dai: 3 million
17. Tenrikyo: 2.4 million
18. Neo-Paganism: 1 million
20. Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

Some of the above, if not all are considered 'man-made' religions by Christians. I'd say Christianity is on-top because they, at the time of the world conquerors; Spanish, English, etc. spread "the word" using fear and even death to those would did not 'believe'. That was human nature ...and still is, to a point.

Explain why a few hundred years ago the Philippines had their own belief system, then the Spanish invaded, conquerored them for 350 years and now they are mostly Christian and Muslim.

The above is a tiny portion of what happened all over the world for 100s of years. Do you believe in a god that would let this happen? It's not just Christian-based beliefs but, I use the history of Christians to make my point. Sure there were honest missionaries however, for the most part the past was brutal.

Thats why I asked; why would an all powerful god create the existance of evil. If a god was starting everything from scratch would it not make sense not to add evil to the equation. In other words, if there was no evil right from the beginning you'd never know the difference and you wouldn't have to appreciate good as good would be all around!

Wishful thinking on my part. :-\

Anduril,

as I have repeatedly said, without giving man a choice to choose whether or not to accept God, how could He ever experience true and genuine Love?   God does not want robots created for service which is what He would have had he not allowed man a choice.  He wants a genuine relationship out of trust and Love.


All the numbers you post are truely telling to me about religion.   There should be no question from these that man recognises he truely has a problem.   The reason there are so many religions is that men do not know how to diagnose the problem.   God on the other hand does....God says, the problem is sin!   Watching the nightly news for about 20 mins should remove all doubt that man has a terrible illness.  Murder, hate, rape, theft, deceit, lying, coruption, lust and on and on and on.   These are not new problems either.  This has been going on from centuries past.   Why do you think we have so many religions?  Because most men know they have a problem, they just fail to diagnose the problem correctly.

Religion, philosophers and science all try to diagnose the problem man has.  They all fall short because they attempt to appease the man himself in a way to make him better on the outside, (they address the symptoms and not the disease.)  Religion tells people, go to church, say prayers pay your tithes, be good to others, feed the hungry, give to the poor etc.   These are all good things, but they do not address the real problem on the inside of man.  They only cover the symptoms of it.

Science attempts to address the problem by removing God completely from the equation because without Him, there is no need to worry about being accountable for what we do.  We are here for a mere flash of time and then we're gone...no sweat.

Like bad doctors, all of these ideals address mans problem on the outside....like rubbing medicine on your skin while the cancer inside is eating you alive.   Unless we understand the problem, we cannot make the correct diagnosis and treat the real problem.

Mans problem is that he is a sinner.  We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners.   Some of mans attempts to correct his problem of sin was religion, science etc....Jesus was Gods answer to the problem.  

You me and everyone else in life are up against an impossible barrier between us and God.   We will never be able to be pleasing in the eyes of a perfect Just and Holy God.   There is no man who has ever lived but one, who was able to go over the barrier of sin man put between himself and God.  God himself loved us enough, to step out of eternity, and take on human flesh and be tempted as we are, feel the struggles that we face, and live a perfect life in order to destroy those barriers so that we could be reconsiled to Him.

The Man that God became was Jesus Christ.   His perfect life was the only perfect life a man has ever lived thus satisfying Gods perfect Holiness.  His innocent death also satisfied Gods perfect justice for all of mans sins.  He literally became sin on the cross...YOUR sin, and put it to death with Him.   Through His resurrection, we are reunited with God.  The spiritual death that we inherrited from Adam is restored through faith in Him.  GOD bought us from the slavery of sin, he paid the wages that we owe.   Jesus was the only one who could satisfy Gods perfection in holiness and Gods justice for sin.   By asking Him into our lives and believing on him, we say to Him that we totally trust in Him for our salvation.  When we do this His spirit takes up residence in our hearts and our spiritual life becomes born of Him.    The problem of sin that is found on the inside of man can finally be addressed.   As spiritual babies in Christ, we begin a walk of faith and trust in the Lord.   The things that we used to find joy in, start not to appeal to us anymore.  Its not by self will that we address all the issues....but its Him living in us that does.

This is why I was telling you before that you can't decide to fix all your sin and live a lie before you wife and church.  God has to do it.  You can never do it.  You may have fooled many people for a while, but the ole true nature of the heart is alive and well.  The illness that you bear is untreated...you only hid it from others for a time.

If you want to cure it, there is only one way to do it.   And that is letting Jesus into your very being and allowing Him to clean up the mess.   You were built for it.  But its still your choice.   The more resist the harder your heart will become.   God Loves you buddy, and I know He wants to know you.  You can run, but you cannot hide from God almighty.   One day, you are going to say, "why did I wait so long to give Jesus a try?"

The word of God says that every knee shall bow, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.   There are two kinds of people.  Those who confess in this life, and those who will confess in the next.   One way or the other, you will one day acknowledge your God, and sadly He will only be able to acknowledge those who chose Him in this life, those who let Him address their illness while there was still time for a cure.  

Grace and Peace!

Because he is Jehovah.  .......Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? .....Isaiah 44:9

That is human logic. God's ways are not man's.


 There was no evil in the beginning. It was all good
It is the created man that has corrupted the earth not the creator God. See the book of Genesis in the Bible.

May the greater love of Christ be yours,
ollie

I to can quote something from the Bible, Koran, Vedas, Confucius, etc, etc. and find a line that 'would make sense' in explaining the beliefs or a specific moment. I realize most of my questions are unanswerable. I can't answer them either.

I like these quotes from the late Carl Sagan;

"There are many hypotheses in science which are wrong. That's perfectly all right; they're the aperture to finding out what's right. Science is a self-correcting process. To be accepted, new ideas must survive the most rigorous standards of evidence and scrutiny."

"Anything you don't understand, Mr. Rankin, you attribute to God. God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off and say God did it."

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion."

On that last quote I agree and to add to it;

Politics and Religion are the worse things to debate, I should know this by now. Politics and Religion cause more division than good.

Thanks for your time,
Anduril

---

All of your questions may seem moot to many, but the answer is as easy as it ever could be.   Your disbelief is what keeps you from finding the answer.


 :)   Funny you should quote this.  I think it fits perfectly!   Men should be able to realize they are wrong.  Its the only way man will ever find ultimate truth.   But as he says, change is sometimes painful, it requires us to admit we were wrong about our beliefs, and that God was right all along.   I can't answer for religion or politics being non-changing because neither of them have any bearing on our discussion.  I know that when truth found me, I was forced to admit I was wrong, and that Christ was right.  I too have never looked back.   Like Carl Sagan, I relate to these, only from a slightly different perspective.   ;)



I have no interest in politics or religion.  And I couldn't agree more about the division they can cause.   You are still unable to see that the truth I speak of, has nothing to do with religion of politics though.   I wish I knew how to make that clearer for you, but I don't.   Only God is able to open mans eyes, and until He does, I pray that the seed of truth has been planted somewhere in the good soil of your heart friend.   Perhaps at another time God will send someone to water it, nurture it, and eventually harvest it.  This is my honest prayer.



Don't mention it, I would spend it all again sharing His truth with you buddy.   Anytime you want to talk or have any more questions, you can find me or others here who would be more than willing to help and pray with you Anduril.   I truly do care about you and your questions about God.  Since you are not sure, you'll just have to take it from me, God does too!  :)

I will be praying for you friend!

Blessings!