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Babylon the Great is Falling
http://www.babylonthegreatisfalling.net
 
 
I have posted my latest article "The Golden Cup of America" which describes the consequences of divorcing eternal principles from the Declaration of Independence by the Founding Fathers.  It also addresses the ongoing seduction of Israel by the infamous Quartet, led by the leaders of America's political and religious institutions.  This article will cause you to ask the question....is America really Israel's greatest friend?      
 
Please click on above link and go to "What's New" to read the article.  Please sign my guestbook or send me an email with your comments or questions.    
 
Sincerely, Jack

Interesting that you also have identified Babylon.
Not many have seen this, and again not many will....

 8) Amen!

In 2000 we were all over the local DC news standing outside the hall of justioce with our signs.

Babylon is Fallen!

Woman of many waters topic at TCForums (http://thecomforters.wshost.net/ubb/Forum12/HTML/000008.html)

Is there anyone on this forum working on the timing of the fall ?
What I know of it is that is should coincide with an attack on
Israel. Crippling the USA for a counterattack.

On a similar note: I have received word that mr Bush will be
re-elected and will drag Europe into a war they don't want to fight.
This as a pointer to the event mentioned above (the fall of Babylon)

Read this and you will see the real whore of Babylon...im pretty sure its not America. The Gentiles will burn her with fire untill the time of the Gentiles is fullfiled. God made her a Queen but she turned from him and committed fornication with the kings of the earth.

Eze 16:1  Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Eze 16:2  Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,
Eze 16:3  And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity [is] of the land of Canaan; thy father [was] an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite.
Eze 16:4  And [as for] thy nativity, in the day thou wast born thy navel was not cut, neither wast thou washed in water to supple [thee]; thou wast not salted at all, nor swaddled at all.
Eze 16:5  None eye pitied thee, to do any of these unto thee, to have compassion upon thee; but thou wast cast out in the open field, to the lothing of thy person, in the day that thou wast born.
Eze 16:6  And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee [when thou wast] in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee [when thou wast] in thy blood, Live.
Eze 16:7  I have caused thee to multiply as the bud of the field, and thou hast increased and waxen great, and thou art come to excellent ornaments: [thy] breasts are fashioned, and thine hair is grown, whereas thou [wast] naked and bare.
Eze 16:8  Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time [was] the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine.
Eze 16:9  Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
Eze 16:10  I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.
Eze 16:11  I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.
Eze 16:12  And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
Eze 16:13  Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment [was of] fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.
Eze 16:14  And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it [was] perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 16:15  But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
Eze 16:16  And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: [the like things] shall not come, neither shall it be [so].
Eze 16:17  Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,
Eze 16:18  And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.
Eze 16:19  My meat also which I gave thee, fine flour, and oil, and honey, [wherewith] I fed thee, thou hast even set it before them for a sweet savour: and [thus] it was, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 16:20  Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. [Is this] of thy whoredoms a small matter,
Eze 16:21  That thou hast slain my children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through [the fire] for them?
Eze 16:22  And in all thine abominations and thy whoredoms thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, when thou wast naked and bare, [and] wast polluted in thy blood.
Eze 16:23  And it came to pass after all thy wickedness, (woe, woe unto thee! saith the Lord GOD;)
Eze 16:24  [That] thou hast also built unto thee an eminent place, and hast made thee an high place in every street.
Eze 16:25  Thou hast built thy high place at every head of the way, and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred, and hast opened thy feet to every one that passed by, and multiplied thy whoredoms.
Eze 16:26  Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger.
Eze 16:27  Behold, therefore I have stretched out my hand over thee, and have diminished thine ordinary [food], and delivered thee unto the will of them that hate thee, the daughters of the Philistines, which are ashamed of thy lewd way.
Eze 16:28  Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied.
Eze 16:29  Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied herewith.
Eze 16:30  How weak is thine heart, saith the Lord GOD, seeing thou doest all these [things], the work of an imperious whorish woman;
Eze 16:31  In that thou buildest thine eminent place in the head of every way, and makest thine high place in every street; and hast not been as an harlot, in that thou scornest hire;
Eze 16:32  [But as] a wife that committeth adultery, [which] taketh strangers instead of her husband!
Eze 16:33  They give gifts to all whores: but thou givest thy gifts to all thy lovers, and hirest them, that they may come unto thee on every side for thy whoredom.

Continued

Eze 16:34  And the contrary is in thee from [other] women in thy whoredoms, whereas none followeth thee to commit whoredoms: and in that thou givest a reward, and no reward is given unto thee, therefore thou art contrary.
Eze 16:35  Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of the LORD:
Eze 16:36  Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them;
Eze 16:37  Behold, therefore I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all [them] that thou hast loved, with all [them] that thou hast hated; I will even gather them round about against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness.
Eze 16:38  And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy.
Eze 16:39  And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare.
Eze 16:40  They shall also bring up a company against thee, and they shall stone thee with stones, and thrust thee through with their swords.
Eze 16:41  And they shall burn thine houses with fire, and execute judgments upon thee in the sight of many women: and I will cause thee to cease from playing the harlot, and thou also shalt give no hire any more.
Eze 16:42  So will I make my fury toward thee to rest, and my jealousy shall depart from thee, and I will be quiet, and will be no more angry.
Eze 16:43  Because thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, but hast fretted me in all these [things]; behold, therefore I also will recompense thy way upon [thine] head, saith the Lord GOD: and thou shalt not commit this lewdness above all thine abominations.
Eze 16:44  Behold, every one that useth proverbs shall use [this] proverb against thee, saying, As [is] the mother, [so is] her daughter.
Eze 16:45  Thou [art] thy mother's daughter, that lotheth her husband and her children; and thou [art] the sister of thy sisters, which lothed their husbands and their children: your mother [was] an Hittite, and your father an Amorite.
Eze 16:46  And thine elder sister [is] Samaria, she and her daughters that dwell at thy left hand: and thy younger sister, that dwelleth at thy right hand, [is] Sodom and her daughters.
Eze 16:47  Yet hast thou not walked after their ways, nor done after their abominations: but, as [if that were] a very little [thing], thou wast corrupted more than they in all thy ways.
Eze 16:48  [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters.
Eze 16:49  Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
Eze 16:50  And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw [good].
Eze 16:51  Neither hath Samaria committed half of thy sins; but thou hast multiplied thine abominations more than they, and hast justified thy sisters in all thine abominations which thou hast done.
Eze 16:52  Thou also, which hast judged thy sisters, bear thine own shame for thy sins that thou hast committed more abominable than they: they are more righteous than thou: yea, be thou confounded also, and bear thy shame, in that thou hast justified thy sisters.
Eze 16:53  When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters, and the captivity of Samaria and her daughters, then [will I bring again] the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them:
Eze 16:54  That thou mayest bear thine own shame, and mayest be confounded in all that thou hast done, in that thou art a comfort unto them.
Eze 16:55  When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.
Eze 16:56  For thy sister Sodom was not mentioned by thy mouth in the day of thy pride,
Eze 16:57  Before thy wickedness was discovered, as at the time of [thy] reproach of the daughters of Syria, and all [that are] round about her, the daughters of the Philistines, which despise thee round about.
Eze 16:58  Thou hast borne thy lewdness and thine abominations, saith the LORD.
Eze 16:59  For thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even deal with thee as thou hast done, which hast despised the oath in breaking the covenant.
Eze 16:60  Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee in the days of thy youth, and I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant.
Eze 16:61  Then thou shalt remember thy ways, and be ashamed, when thou shalt receive thy sisters, thine elder and thy younger: and I will give them unto thee for daughters, but not by thy covenant.
Eze 16:62  And I will establish my covenant with thee; and thou shalt know that I [am] the LORD:
Eze 16:63  That thou mayest remember, and be confounded, and never open thy mouth any more because of thy shame, when I am pacified toward thee for all that thou hast done, saith the Lord GOD.

God bless

 8) You can't run from the facts!

There is but one city which rules the kings of the earth this day. And that is Washington DC. It is found nestled within a great nation and at the present has turned on it's public body with great abominations. That nation is symbolized by a woman standing in water, and the whore dressed in scarlet, that is said to be her mother, is sitting, just to help you see the two.

About one more large piece of information showing this administration has deceived the people and you will see Babylon fall friends. The people will rise and gut the way it is. Of course we are a little ahead of ourselves on the timeline, but "shortly" to say the least.

I am sure it is hard with just a piece here and there, but the Revelation of Jesus Christ is alive today.

Lamps full?

Trim?

John.

This day is just one way of putting it...who says it has to be a city of this day that this prophecy is speaking of...its Mystery Babylon were talking bout, Babylon ruled the kings of old. God may be talking bout this same old city whitch is now modern day Iraq...also i doubt that Americans are from the land of the Chaldeans...spiritual saying? may not be Babylon or America at all, but Jerusalem. This is a hard saying my friend and a Mystery... even John wondered about it.

The best way to interpret the word is with the word...that way your really not running from the facts. And the fact is that this is a Mystery. For years this was thought to be a revived Roman Empire, now its America....

Jer 51:1  Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will raise up against Babylon, and against them that dwell in the midst of them that rise up against me, a destroying wind;
Jer 51:2  And will send unto Babylon fanners, that shall fan her, and shall empty her land: for in the day of trouble they shall be against her round about.
Jer 51:3  Against [him that] bendeth let the archer bend his bow, and against [him that] lifteth himself up in his brigandine: and spare ye not her young men; destroy ye utterly all her host.
Jer 51:4  Thus the slain shall fall in the land of the Chaldeans, and [they that are] thrust through in her streets.
Jer 51:5  For Israel [hath] not [been] forsaken, nor Judah of his God, of the LORD of hosts; though their land was filled with sin against the Holy One of Israel.
Jer 51:6  Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this [is] the time of the LORD'S vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence.
Jer 51:7  Babylon [hath been] a golden cup in the LORD'S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.
Jer 51:8  Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed: howl for her; take balm for her pain, if so be she may be healed.
Jer 51:9  We would have healed Babylon, but she is not healed: forsake her, and let us go every one into his own country: for her judgment reacheth unto heaven, and is lifted up [even] to the skies.
Jer 51:10  The LORD hath brought forth our righteousness: come, and let us declare in Zion the work of the LORD our God.


God bless

That explains why we have full support from all the nations we reign over to rebuild Iraq!    ;)

Grace and Peace!

Hmm, completely, and I mean, totally completely different views.
When we cannot even agree as to who is the Babylon, then
pondering on the timing doesn't is even farther away.

Let's try it the other way round...

To the Europe&Rome-bashers out there: when will this happen, what events will precede and what will happen after the destruction ?

"As they say: peace and safety, sudden destruction cometh upon them"

Greetings,
2B

We?

I am not of the Governing body and as of late I am reserved in shouting of my public pride. "In God we Trust" is now yelled from the Outside!

If you are not in the governing body I guess you haven't realized there is no "we" now...

Answer me this:

At what point in your doctrine does scripture turn from yesterday and reveal tomorrow?

Today?

Please use Chapter and verse.

Peace.

You must be a democrat. By the way..... Washington D.C., isn't a port. Where as Rome is a Port city.
In recent years there have been many people declare that America is mystery Babylon found in the 17th chapter of Revelation. I suppose it would be easy to believe that we are mystery babylon because of the disappointment with our government, the courts and the terrible immoral acts that are being committed in America. I would like to say that I am disappointed with America myself when it comes to these things. But, contrary to those who believe that America is mystery Babylon; I would like to share with you a few of the many reasons why that this is not the case. America is not what it should be from a Christian standpoint, but it is far from being the bloodthirsty Babylon of Revelation 17 and will never be.

In the vision that God gave John on the Island of Patmos, God showed John a harlot riding the back of a scarlet colored beast. She is an abomination unto God, She is an allegory or type and shadow of a group of people that God is going to pour out his indignation and wrath upon in the end times.

Revelation 17:

3: So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4: And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

6: And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

7: And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

Notice in the above scripture in verse 5 that there is a comma between the words MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

This divides the title of this woman into four parts.

   1. She is a Mystery.
   2. She is Babylon the Great.
   3. She the mother of harlots.
   4. She the mother of abominations of the earth.

18: And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

In the 17th chapter there are a number of things that God tells us about this woman, but the things that stand out to me are these.

She is a mystery, she is considered to be great, she is the mother of harlots, she is the mother of abominations, and she is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth.

One thing to consider is that although we call her mystery Babylon, God himself never did. He said that she would be a mystery and called her Babylon the great but never called her mystery Babylon. We call her that but he didn’t, which is something to consider.

God gave us the first glimpse of her in Revelation 14:8:

Revelation 14:

8: And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Many people believe that Babylon of Revelation 14:8 and Babylon the great in Revelation 17:5 are two separate Babylon’s. But when you look real close you will see that this is not the case but will find rather convincing similarities that they are one and the same.

The reasoning that some have is that the woman in Rev. 17 is called mystery Babylon and the city in Revelation 14: 8 is only called Babylon. Believing that one is a mystery and the other is the actual city of Babylon in modern day Iraq. If a person believes that the city that Saddam Hussein is trying to rebuild is going to make all nations drink of the wrath of her fornications and that she will be a great city before the time of the end then they are stretching their imaginations to the limit. This rebuild Babylon is nothing more than a museum or tourist attraction, something for Saddam Hussein to amuse himself with.

God promised in Jeremiah 51:37 saying that Babylon would never amount to anything again after the invasion of the Medes and Persians. This has come to pass. There have only been two cities that stand out as ruling nations and people these cities were Babylon and Rome. Babylon went under and will never rise to become anything that will be called great again. Since this is the case, and I believe it to be, then the Babylon of Rev. 14:8 has to be as much a mystery as the woman in Rev. 17:5, unless of course someone can tell us who it is.

So we have these similarities between the Babylon in Rev. 17th chapter and the Babylon in Rev. 14:8.

   1. They both are mysteries.
   2. They are both called that great city. Rev. 14:8, Rev. 17:18.
   3. Both are fornicators. Rev 17:4, Rev.14: 8.
   4. They both cause others to sin. Rev. 17:2, Rev. 14:8.

Babylon the great in Revelation the 18th chapter is the same as the woman in Revelation the 17th chapter and Revelation 14:8. The 14th chapter tells us that Babylon will be destroyed. The 17th chapter identifies her and tells us more about who is going to destroy her. The 18th chapter tells how the other nations feel when they see this great city going up in flames and destruction.

Who is this city? Think on this, The Bible says, that she is a city. God told John that it was that great city that ruled over the kings of the earth. When we try to place America into this scenario we fail to think about the fact that we are a nation not a city. In every place it is spoken of it is a city, not a nation. We do not rule over the kings of the earth, we have a lot of influence but we do not force nations to obey us.

When God spoke to John he was revealing who this city was. It was the city that was ruling the kings of the earth in John’s day. It was the city of Rome itself. We don’t think of the city of Rome having any power today and it is true, but in John’s day it ruled the known world. It was a cruel vicious city that ruled men with a cruel hand. God has not punished Rome for her sins. She has killed more saints than any city in the world. With all her sins against God and humanity she still reigned over many nations for a thousand years. God has saved his wrath for her for the last days.
The city of Rome today has no military might to boast of but, she has a great authority over the Catholic faith that is in every nation of the world. She is the iron in the legs of the man in Nebuchadnezzar's dream which comes down into the feet and toes of this image of world powers. She has in her the strength of iron and has prevailed for centuries.

Try and compare the inhumanities when it comes to the city of Rome and the United States of America. Many feel that because the government allows abortion and homosexuals to go unpunished that America is mystery Babylon. There is a great difference in a government allowing people to make sinful choices and a government that commits the act itself. America can’t even compare to the wickedness of Germany in the forties let alone compare to the city Rome today.

In America ignorant sinners have abortions because they feel that an unborn child is not a person yet. I do not agree with this but they do it in ignorance. The Romans killed Christian families by the millions, men, women and children, making no distinction knowing that they were doing this as an intentional act against Christ and his church.

They were able to see with their eyes little children being fed to lions; Christian families were hacked up with the sword, burned at the stake for the sake of entertainment. All of this was done as an intentional act to destroy the church from the face of the earth. They also killed the Jewish people, over one million were killed by Titus when he destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D. which was just the start of the murders that would take place over the next 15 hundred years coming from the authority of the city of Rome.

We have homosexuals in America trying to obtain their rights. The Romans were led by homosexuals and engaged in this horrible sin without any thought. It was a common practice without condemnation.

After the Romans became so called Christians they carried out their acts of murders against Christians who tried to be obedient to the Lord. They did all of this in the name of God calling the true believer heretics. The Roman leadership has murdered literal millions. These violent acts have created the mind set for things like the Spanish inquisitions that murdered Jews and new Christian converts through suspicion. The same reasoning that caused men like the Spanish conquistadors to kill the Indians in Central and North America because they did not believe in Jesus. This kind of leadership brought all this about from Rome. There have been millions of Christians martyred for the name of Jesus. None of this has been done or accepted by the American government. Remember in Revelation the 17th chapter she is drunk on the blood of the Saints (Christians).

God has been saving his wrath for the city of Rome. He still remembers every Christian that was killed for his name’s sake by these people. He warns the people of that city in Revelation the 18th chapter to get out of there before His wrath hits. It is up to them. God is slow to wrath but he never forgets. The only thing that will cause him to forget is repentance.

Rome is the center or hub for world trade in that part of the world. She is rich in merchandise. Everything you can imagine is bought sold or traded for in the city of Rome. She is the hub for all the railroads joining Europe, Asia and the Middle East. She is also one of the worlds leading tourist attractions. People visit there from all over the world. She is the religious center when coming to Christianity in that part of the world. Most of the people in that part of the world are not Protestant, but are Catholic by faith.

She will ride the back of the anti-Christ nations trying to assure her a position. The leadership will come out of the religion that comes out of her. The pope will declare the anti-Christ to be God. He will be the false prophet at that time. There are only two basic religions in that part of the world. They are the Muslim and Christian beliefs. The Christian belief in that part of the world is a majority of Catholics.

This is the Iron and the Clay in the man’s feet from the book of Daniel. The Iron is the religion that came out of the two legs of the Roman Empire; the clay is the Muslim religion. This is the main reason the two do not mix well. They will work together for a period of time under the leadership of the anti-Christ.

The Muslim religion will destroy the city of Rome at the end and kill the Catholics who are living in that part of the world. God has put it in their hearts to fulfill his will. I am glad that the Catholics in America are independent in their thinking. They will never submit to this kind of atrocity.

Please don't mis-understand, I am not putting down the Catholics. I know many Catholics who are good Christian people. But during that time many will be deceived into following a Pope that will lead them into following the anti-Christ. This again is why God gives this warning in Revelation the 18th Chapter. I am sure that there will be a great deal of God loving Catholics who will recognize the situation and give their lives for Jesus keeping the faith.

I don’t always enjoy telling the truth the way it is. There are so many people so quick to condemn and make a monster of our nation. Our sins are many for sure, but we have and still have many Christians in this country that love God. Even with all the rich Christian background America has never truly been the Christian nation people would like to think. Our Christian ancestry was so bigoted and racially prejudiced it is unbelievable. God has been very merciful to us. Praise his Holy name. By the time of the return of Christ America will be a true Christian nation in every sense of the word. God is going to cause this nation to repent before the return of Jesus.

Go in peace with God.
DW

REMEMBER: I am Just Posting this, its not how I believe.

 ;D

<:)))><

*sigh* 2 party systems ...

greetings from a democratic Holland
one of the first European NWO states;
27 partys and still not even one in my flavour....

2B

The we I refer to is America.   I suppose I was being a bit facecious....but I was attempting to make a point.  America is only reigning over itself.  Sure we impose ourselves on a much of the world...Washington may do as it wishes, but to say that the rest of the world is in bed with America just doesn't hold true in the sense that is laid out in Revelation.   I suppose that could change, but its deffinately not the case at this moment in time.

The question you ask cannot be pointed out by chapter and verse.  Prophecy is interweaved throughout scripture.  If you feel there is a chapter and verse where it stops, I would certainly like to hear your thoughts on that?

Something you need to keep in mind concerning Revelation and its cryptic symbols is the following.

It was written by John during the 1st century.   He was instructed to write down everything he saw.

Rev 1:19  Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

Past, present, future.   Important keys for interpretation of whats going on.   Not to dig on your wanting to omit history, but the Lord himself felt it important to show things that were. as well.    John having to write down everything he saw, had only 1st century referense (from personal world experience) in which to explain what he was seeing.   Imagine if you were shown a vision of events to take place 2,000 years from today.   Probably some pretty outrageous events that would be hard to describe using the terminology we have today.    (Shoot, I have trouble keeping up with terminology from months past when it comes to computers.)   It would probably sound a lot like a modernized version of Revelation, being very cryptic and difficult to understand.  If people 2,000 years from today were to omit 2004 history, they might miss what you were trying to show them using your own world experience to explain what was going to happen then!   You see what I mean?

Just some food for thought!

Grace and Peace!  

 8) A couple of points!

I addressed the actual topic on the other thread by mistake, it just fell in there.

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER etc... is a name on the forehead of the woman. Which means on her mind. Check out the other thread and see if you can get the parable and what was on the womans mind as she "goes" down.

As far as the Lord holding back on some wrath for Rome?

The Roman system spun off of Babylon and in modern times the Babylonian system of city and state is America. No matter which path you take to remove the city which rules the kings of the earth from DC you will wagon wheel right back to America and DC.

Democrat? Only this time around! And as the king who has been troubled by the kings of the east goes down, hang on boys!

Right or wrong, understanding or not, scripture stops for no man.

Peace.

John.

Right or wrong, understanding or not, this is all speculation on everyones part. God says that it is a mystery, and I believe it. We will know who, what, when, and where, when Jesus wants us to know.

Hi all,

I see a "glitch in the matrix" when Dreamweaver answered.

A mystery is something that God *wants* to reveal to us
when we seek Him earnestly; some mysteries are clearly
explained such as the mystery of the calling of the Heathens.
Others are somewhat more hidden.

But this does not mean that it/this/that isn't for us.

How often do we sing:
"I am in the Father and the Father is in us"

And preach: " oh, this or that mystery is known by the Father,
 it is not to be known for us ! (until we are in heaven)"

I tell you again today:
It is a glich, a misunderstanding and a direct contradiction to
even think that any mystery pertaining the Kindom of God isn't
to be fully understood with the knowledge of Him by us on Earth.

We are not slaves; we have got power to become the Sons of
the most High, and Jesus calls us Friends !

Would you not tell a true friend everything he would really like to
know, and if not, and if you were told He would not tell it; what
basis does that friendship of yours actually have ?

Consider this, ponder it as I do and you will find that that being
in the dark regarding any matter in the Chuch, His people  and
this day is definately "a bad thing"(tm) And has no place in a
relationship as serious as the one you should have with Christ
and the Father

Greetings,
2B

Sorry to hear that 2B, You still have hope though........


Through the greatest party of all..............




The party of Jesus Christ. ;D

Gen 10:8-10 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth. He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD. And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.

Nimrod built Babel which was ancient Babylon. He was said to be a mighty hunter before the Lord; this means he was in defiance of the Lord. Babylon was the place where false religion was first organized. The world was united with one language during the days of Babel. Therefore, we might say that Babylon represents a united world religion.

Isa 21:9 And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, with a couple of horsemen. And he answered and said, Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and all the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground.

Babylon was a city of many graven images, false gods, and idol worship.

Jer 51:37 And Babylon shall become heaps, a dwellingplace for dragons, an astonishment, and an hissing, without an inhabitant.

God declared that the ancient city of Babylon would be destroyed and would be uninhabited.

Jer 51:44 And I will punish Bel in Babylon, and I will bring forth out of his mouth that which he hath swallowed up: and the nations shall not flow together any more unto him: yea, the wall of Babylon shall fall.

The walls were eighty feet thick and three hundred feet high, but they eventually fell.

Jer 51:47 Therefore, behold, the days come, that I will do judgment upon the graven images of Babylon: and her whole land shall be confounded, and all her slain shall fall in the midst of her.

Babylon trusted in idols and not in God; therefore, God destroyed Babylon.

Jer 51:61-62 And Jeremiah said to Seraiah, When thou comest to Babylon, and shalt see, and shalt read all these words; Then shalt thou say, O LORD, thou hast spoken against this place, to cut it off, that none shall remain in it, neither man nor beast, but that it shall be desolate for ever.

Notice that God said that Babylon would be desolate forever; this means it will never be rebuilt, it will never again become a center for false religious worship.

Jer 51:63-64 And it shall be, when thou hast made an end of reading this book, that thou shalt bind a stone to it, and cast it into the midst of Euphrates: And thou shalt say, Thus shall Babylon sink, and shall not rise from the evil that I will bring upon her: and they shall be weary. Thus far are the words of Jeremiah.

God's word says that the ancient city of Babylon will never rise again; we can count on it. God's word is correct to the last detail; ancient Babylon will never rise again.

Ezek 23:8 Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her.

Ezekiel is speaking of ancient Israel as a whore, an unfaithful wife, because Israel worshiped the false gods of Egypt.

Ezek 23:17 And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them.

The Babylonians caused Israel to take part in idolatry, to be unfaithful to God; therefore, Babylon became a name used to refer to a place of idol worship.

Ezek 23:30 I will do these things unto thee, because thou hast gone a whoring after the heathen, and because thou art polluted with their idols.

God's judgement came upon Israel because of their idolatry.

1 Pet 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

Peter is not speaking of the ancient Babylon; it was in ruins. Peter was referring to the city from which he wrote his epistle; it was a city of idolatry, the city of Rome.

Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

The Babylon mentioned in the book of Revelation is a center of idol worship; it is a city that encourages people to engage in false religious worship. Spiritual Babylon will someday be destroyed for leading people into idolatry.

Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

God will someday destroy spiritual Babylon with great anger because of its great wickedness..

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

The term ''great whore'' refers to a large religious system involved in idol worship. The term "many waters" refers to many parts of the world or to many nations. Putting it together we have a large worldwide system of idol worship; false religion controlled by one city, yet covering the entire earth.

Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Fornication here speaks of idolatry. The whore, spiritual Babylon, will be responsible for leading the inhabitants of the world into idolatry.

Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

The woman here refers to the religious system of the world, which will be supported by the antichrist, the scarlet beast. The antichrist will use this united religious system to help him secure power and to unite the world under his government. The woman will not realize she is only being used by the beast for his own purpose; her greed and corruption will bring her downfall..

Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

The priest of this religious system will dress in purple and scarlet, the colors of royalty, which are already found in some so-called Christian ceremonies today. They will also use a golden cup in their idol worship.

Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

The term "mystery" means that her true identity had been hidden for a period of time. Remember Babylon is where organized false religion got its start. She is the worst of all the worlds false religious systems and she leads the entire world into idolatry, and all other religions of the world will look to her as their mother.

Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

False religion has always been responsible for the persecution of true Christians. During the great tribulation period there will be a great persecution of new believers and spiritual Babylon will be responsible. Rev 6:9-11 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. We must remember that these persecuted believers are not Christians who go into the seven year tribulation, but they are people who will come to believe during the Great Tribulation.

Rev 17:7-8 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Many demons are now in prison in the bottomless pit. The beast is a demon who will someday be released from the bottomless pit to possess the antichrist. He is identified with the antichrist because he will control him completely. It could be that this one that comes out of the bottomless pit is a very evil demon that has possessed some very evil person in the past, but is now confined in the bottomless pit. He could be the same demon that possessed Nero, the emperor of Rome, since the Roman Empire will be revived during the Great Tribulation. This may explain the statement that he was, and is not, and yet is.

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The seven mountains are the seven hills of Rome; Rome will be the home of spiritual Babylon.

Rev 17:10-11 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

These kings are rulers of the Roman Empire who persecuted Jews and Christians, as the beast will. The beast refers to the antichrist. The antichrist will be the ruler of the revived Roman Empire.

Rev 17:12-13 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

These ten world rulers, whoever they are, will only rule for a short period of time. Because the whole world is controlled by the evil one, they will all support the antichrist.

Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

When Jesus Christ returns as King of kings, we who believe in Him will be with Him. The nations of the world will gather to wage war against Him, but to no avail.

Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

After the rapture takes place, the whore will be able to take control of the many false Christians in this world, and will have unopposed control of the minds of men. Many people who call themselves Christians today will not be raptured because they are not true Christians; they are religious, but they have not been born again. Furthermore, because almost all denominations have many nonbelievers in them they will still be here during the Great Tribulation and will become part of the one world religion.

Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

The united world government will only use the harlot to gain power. Since the beast wants all the people of the world to worship him only, he will destroy the whore, spiritual Babylon, as soon as he becomes powerful enough to do so.

Rev 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Even the most wicked unbelievers in this world are the servants of the Lord. In this case, they are used by God to bring judgment upon the harlot, spiritual Babylon.

Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

When the apostle John wrote the Book of Revelation, the city of Rome ruled over the kings of the earth. The kingdom of the antichrist will be the revived Roman Empire.

Rev 18:2-3 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

This false religious system which had so much control over the world will be no more. It is apparent that the false religious system will be very wealthy; it may even have more wealth than all of today's religions combined. She will have so much wealth that she will make the world's merchants rich by her extravagant spending.

Rev 18:4-5 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

God is not only telling His people to separate themselves from the false religion of the tribulation period, He is also telling His people of this day to separate themselves from all forms of false religion, and to put their faith in Jesus Christ, and in Him only.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. People are saved by faith in Jesus Christ, not by religion.

Rev 18:6-8 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

There is a day of judgment coming for all the wicked and especially for the world's false religious system. Those who put their faith in religion will be judged for their idolatry because they don't trust in Jesus Christ, the only Savior.

Rev 18:9-13 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

The only reason the merchants of the earth will mourn for her is because she will not be able to buy their products anymore.

Rev 18:14-20 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all. The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

The world will mourn for spiritual Babylon, but heaven will rejoice over her judgment. The saints, apostles, and prophets all rejoiced over her judgment because she was responsible for so much of the suffering of the true Church in the past, as well as the suffering of the tribulation saints.

Rev 18:21-23 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

As the ancient Babylon was thrown down, also the Babylon of the great tribulation will be thrown down, never to arise again. The teaching here is that all false religion will be removed from the face of the earth forever.

Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Babylon, representative of all the false religions of the world, is responsible for the death of all those who were slain for their faith in God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Rev 19:1-3 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

DreamWeaver...

 That is great stuff my brother! Have you considered writing a book? I'm serious about this. I have begun writing a book which is going to be written for my friends. It will focus mostly on a series of important future biblical events - such as the rapture - What to do to catch the flight out, and how to avoid certain doom, if you thought it was all a bunch of weasel wash, and find yourself smack dab in the midst of satan town! I will also insert my own personal testimony. "From Rock Star Hell To Jesus and Eternal Salvation" Don't know if you're aware, but I was a singer in a rock band, here in Canada. I though I could live that lifestyle, and still know Jesus, and get to Heaven...Bwahahahahaa!

I always wrote "Christian" lyrics, and themes. However, I cleverly hid them. Some people recognized the Christian content, and yet - regrettably - watching my behavior and understanding the lyrics as being "Christian", didn't sit well with Born Again Christians, who knew I was lost. Others completely mistook my lyrics and thought them to be "dark" I didn't do much to straighten that false perception out - which saddens, and shames me to this day, thinking about how I may have been responsible for leading some astray. Back then, I didn't know the difference between, knowing "of" Jesus, and "knowing" Jesus. I did all the usual things we all read about in relation to the "Rock Star" life. It almost cost me my wife and children, not to mention my life. Immediately after our second CD came out, I quit the band. My very close friend, and guitar player didn't speak to me for years because of that. We are now very close again, I'm happy to say. I left that life behind, and went head strong after Jesus...Thank you Jesus for accepting me, and washing that filth off of me. I am a new man in Jesus...Amen?

By the way...When I say "Rock Star" I shake my own head now, in utter disbelief, shame, and disgusts, just to think back on how pleased I was with "My accomplishments"

Bronzesnake.

Amen DreamWeaver ;D your study makes more sense than America, or a City of America, being MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT. I dont see God taking revenge against Washington DC for the blood of his holy apostles and prophets.  

Rev 18:20  Rejoice over her, [thou] heaven, and [ye] holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

Thank you AJ, and BRNZ.
No I haven't though about writing a book BRNZ. To me the word of Jesus is free. So therefore I rather post it, free of charge.

I did a search on New Babylon, guess what? There really is a place called New Babylon.
http://www.classic.archined.nl/extra/babylon/newbabylon_00.html

New Babylon - The value of dreaming the city of tomorrow

January 26 and 27 the organisation LINK organised a seminar on Constants' dream of the 'unitary urbanism' at the Delft University of Technology, with the aim of investigating its background and its relevance for todays' architects. The organisers summarised it like this: "A search for the significance of the ideological, social and polemical dimension of architecture, the value of critique and the integral vision of man and the built environment."

It got clear we are looking at a project which surpasses both our wildest dreams and nightmares. Also, through a series of contributions by Adolfo Natalini, Elia Zenghelis and Peter Cook it became clear how much has changed in the approach towards architecture today.

On the occasion of the start of the symposium 'special guest' Simon Vinkenoog offered a short and blazing argument, which ended with the statement: 'Let's start a revolution for fun!'

There are other links describing, what the city is like. :( :o

Brother DreamWeaver, I enjoy ALL your posts

Thanks

 DreamWeaver, have I told you today I LOVE you Bro?
If not I LOVE you Bro  :)

Your friend and brother

Brother Love :)

<:)))><

Love you too brother.

Good Stuff!

As we watch the actions of Washington DC affect the entire world and realize the damage it has done to both Wheat and tare alike around the world, I wonder if any have drawn closer to America being the Nation described within Revelation? For what better title than Revelation to reveal these things? Regardless, there is no question that Scripture is written for these days and the City which rules is DC and the Saints and Prophets of today are being harmed by but one rouge city.

It is becoming clearer every moment.

Good Stuff!

The spirit of the original city of Babylon has rested on various empires over the years.  That is why in my opinion it is called "Mystery Babylon."   It is invisible to the naked eye........but the spirit of evil is there.   It is the type of spirit that leads to such things as feeding Christians to the lions.....as in ancient Rome. 

It probably has rested on our nation since the time the leading judges of the land viewed us no longer a Christian nation. 

Major Supreme Court decisions related to this issue:

1947

1963


http://www.sluiceboxadventures.com/history6_salient_points.htm