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I'm always hearing Protestants and Roman Catholics bad mouthing the Mormans. Why? Simply because their doctrine is different? They still believe Jesus is the Savior.

A nice sentiment, but not well informed.

Have you checked into the teachings of the "latter day saints"? Their teaching if far from christianity!

I will not go into a teaching lesson on doctrines of the Mormons today, but ask you to look at their teachings with
these two verses in mind.

Gal 1:8-9  If any man come to you and present any gospel
other than that which I have presented let him be accursed.
And again I say unto you if any man, even if he be an angel
of light, present any other gospel unto you , let him be accursed.

respectfully yours in Yeshua:

 ;D  ravenloche   ;D

p.s.  Check out their teachings, although they (the Mormons)
say they believe in Jesus, they do not teach he is the son
of God, nor do they teach that he is the Messiah.

ravenloche, you get "TWO" Thumbs Up :)

Brother Love :)

<:)))><

St. Paul wrote that. Then sometime afterward, St. John wrote Revelations. Yet John's writing wasn't another gospel, even though it was a different writing. Obviously Paul wasn't refering to the group of writings we now refer to as the bible, since it hadn't yet been completely written. It seems that he must have been refering to the teachings of Jesus. In other words, if somebody teaches something that contradicts the teachings of Jesus, then "let him be accursed." Does the book of Mormon contradict the teachings of Jesus?
Mormon cult link removed - BEP
Do you know where I can confirm that?

Joseph Smith was No Prophet of God!!

Some mormons can be Christians, however they need the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the New Testament.


Blessings,  \o/

MsGuidedAngel

Mormons also teach that, a man can become God of their own world. This is something not widely known. The only thing I can say about that is; Lord have mercy upon, their poor souls.

I hear a lot of real strange stuff like that about other religions, and without a reference to the church's website, or some other proof, I can only regard it as probably made up. I know people make things up, or twist the meaning of something, in order to decieve people about a religion they hate. Then those people tell other people, who tell other people... Eventually people think things about Mormons or Jehova's Witnesses because they heard from someone, who heard from someone... Some of the things I hear may be true, but I don't want to believe them without at least some proof.

Bad mouthing is wrong. I would urge you to hear and study the good news of Jesus Christ to determine if any doctrine is other than what Christ revealed to us.

Ollie

I'm not sure where you live JitC, but in my neighborhood I am visited frequently by these (or rather used to be).  They always insist on leaving literature which explains very well what they believe.  Also of interest, JW's will not allow you to pray with them if they know you are Christian (I guess worried about asking things in Jesus name), which is a great way to initiate greetings when they knock on your door.   They usually high tail it out of there.   ;D   I don't understand why they don't come to visit me anymore.   ???   ;)

Grace and Peace!

well, I have a mormon friend. I do not personally consider them Christian, but I certianly know that she does. But I also know that people are confused about Mormons....for example, my whole family practically thinks that they're Jahovah's Witness, which they certainly are not.

Howdy do,
             It would appear that you could do well to go to any of the web site on your own, for and against, you don't need anyone here to give them too you. Part of my family is mormon, part is not even Christian. I debated with my Mormon brother for over a year, he was determined to win another church member over to "mormonism" he literally washed his hands of me, when I rererred to the book of mormon at toilet paper, but I didnt' call it that until after he called my NIV a cartoon bible...... HEY we are still bro and sis, and THANK GOD he has seen how silly he was back then.
     In my understanding mormonism is a pyramid kind of religion, based on works alone, I have several issue with there faith.
 Jesus and the Devil are brothers, and in the beginning of creation God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit and Lucifer got together and had a grand meeting to determine how the world should be.
  We are all spirits in heaven before we are born, we as spirits were concieved by God and his many celestual wives, and when Mormons family's have children they are providing a body for a spirit being from Heaven to come to earth to do good, so we have chosen our own destiny, being handi capped, rich, poor, depends on how low you choose to come to earth, as to have well you improve yourself thru a pyramid kind of faith. There is the Aaronic priest hood, I believe a few others but I can't remember and up so they can be allowed in the higher heaven ( 3 degrees of Heaven) only those in the highest postion here on earth or those in the Melchezdik (spelling) priesthood are allow in the higher Heaven, that would mean only Mormons by the way. Those Mormons who have had their marraige sealed in one of the temples, of the church etc etc found thru out the USA. Now after your marriage is sealed you and your wife will be married in Heaven. Some time may pass but you will some day become a god of your own planet and have spirit children too.                    
    Depending on the groups some do believe in many wifes, some don't.
    Joesph Smith is greater than Jesus, he is there prophet.
 Jesus is a good teacher, but not as good as Joesph.
   The way Joeshp found the "golden tablets" that is used to base there book of Mormon is HIGHLY questionable, they have ADDED the book of Mormon to the Holy Scriptures as well so they have there own bible. There are several contradiction in the book of Mormon compared to the Scriptures. I even found evidence that Joeshp Smith used "special" glasses to transalated the golded tablets that an angel name some like Moronia gave him.
    Jesus came to the USA to minister to the Indians at some point in history.
     Genelogy is very very important so that they can trace there blood line back to members of the bibles.
I could go on and on but since it is my word against what ever it is your looking for then I don't know what else to say. Kingdom of the Cults is a good refrence book, Google.com, ask jeeves.com, any search engine is going to give you information about this and many other relegions.  http://www.ankerberg.com/
is a good site to visit.
Ok think I've given you enough info.
OH I do not believe that all Mormons are doomed to hell fire, NO, they are just as savable as the rest of this world, its what they believe that I don't like, not them.
Christ be glorfied,
musicllover  

I know, but a lot of people, here too, bad mouth Mormons. So I figured this might be a good place to come for answers. I don't want to spend the effort to become an expert in Mormonism just to find out if the claims of other Christians are valid.

There are thousands of Christian denominations, and they all differ to some degree. Some more than others. Some quite a bit. I'm not challenging the accusations that the Mormon beliefs differ greatly, or that they are considered strange compared to most Christians. What I'm simply asking for is some belief of their's that clearly is contradictory to the bible, backed up by proof that it's actually a belief of their's.

OK....

*******************************************

The doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) are very interesting. Most of the 'odd' ones are not initially taught to potential converts. But they should be. Instead, "they are are revealed later as one matures and gains the ability to accept them."  The LDS Church tries to make its official doctrines appear Christian but what underlies those Christian sounding terms is far from Christian in meaning.
     Following are the teachings of its officials throughout the years.  Please note that these teachings are documented from Mormon writers, not anti-Mormon writers.  
    Finally, many Mormons respond that most of the the citations below are not from official Mormon writings, as if that disproves the doctrines they teach.  If they are not official, fine.  But, if not, then why have the Mormon apostles and high officials taught them, written them, and why are their books sold in Mormon bookstores?  The truth is, the following is what Mormons are taught.

1. The true gospel was lost from the earth. Mormonism is its restoration, Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 182-185
2. We need prophets today, the same as in the Old Testament, Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 444-445
3. The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, History of the Church, 4:461.
4. If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation.  There is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Mormon Doctrine, p. 670.
5. There are many gods, Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.
There is a mother god, Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443.
6. God used to be a man on another planet, Mormon Doctrine, p. 321.  Joseph Smith,  Times and Seasons, Vol 5, pp. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol 2, p. 345, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333.
7. After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354.
8. God the Father had a Father, Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476; Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 19; Milton Hunter, First Council of the Seventy, Gospel through the Ages, p. 104-105.
9. God resides near a star called Kolob, Pearl of Great Price, pages 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428.
10. God the Father has a body of flesh and bones, Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22.
11. God is in the form of a man, Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3.
12. God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, Mormon Doctrine p. 516.
13. We were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth, Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, p. 218.
14. The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, Mormon Doctrine, page 129.
15. The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," Mormon Doctrine, page 192.
16. Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.
17. A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god." Mormon Doctrine, page 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, page 8.
18.  God had sexual relations with Mary to make the body of Jesus, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, p. 218, 1857; vol. 8, p. 115. - This one is disputed among many Mormons and not always 'officially' taught and believed. Nevertheless, Young, the 2nd prophet of the Mormon church taught it.
19. Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 247, 1856.
20. Good works are necessary for salvation, Articles of Faith, p. 92.
21. There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188.
22. Baptism for the dead, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. II, p. 141. This is a practice of baptizing each other in place of non-Mormons who are now dead. Their belief is that in the afterlife, the "newly baptized" person will be able to enter into a higher level of Mormon heaven.
23. There are three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial, Mormon Doctrine, p. 348.
     
Some Mormons may disagree with a few of the points listed on this page, but all of what is stated here is from Mormon authors in good standing of the Mormon church.
********************************************

You will note that some is not accepted by various Mormons, yet much, if not most supplies the resource (book and author) for the teaching.  Not sure how much proof you need, but this should be proof enough.

I'm not sure about you, but I am hard pressed to find anything in this list that is not contradictory to the word of God.

Grace and Peace!

EDIT to add>>>> PS BTW, I don't dislike mormons, but I do disagree with their teachings.

Right On 2nd Timothy, You Get "TWO" Thumbs Up

<:)))><

Here Here,
            You made it understood way more elegantly that I did. Your good  bro.
 :P
musicllover

[rant on]

Okay  >:(

Joseph Smith was Never a Prophet Nor Never than Jesus Christ!  Jesus is Lord and Savior of Everyone on this Earth!


[/rant off]

JitC,

It's not a matter of bad mouthing or disliking the Mormons, rather it boils down to working for the devil. The Jesus they talk about was created and is not God. The Jesus they talk about was an angel and made into Jesus, much like the more aggressive Mormons intend to be made into Gods. It's really very simple, a doctrine of evil. By the way, the devil believes in Jesus also, but that doesn't make the devil a Christian.

We don't teach or allow the Mormon doctrine to be taught on Christians Unite for the above reasons. Let me give you a hint and you can check for yourself. According to the Mormons, Jesus would have been little more than a brother of Lucifer and created into Jesus. Our hint to the Mormons is that Jesus Christ is Almighty God, was NOT created, and has no beginning or ending. Our second hint to the Mormons is that men will not be made into Gods. The Mormons have a clever and deceptive doctrine that does not lead men to Almighty God, rather a doctrine that draws men to another man, Joseph Smith. If you are looking for more Mormon doctrine, you won't find it here.

Love In Christ,
Tom

BEP, I hope my post was OK.   I only posted their beliefs to show the errors they present.  I was a bit hesitant to do it, but judged  ;D that it had purpose.

Grace and Peace!

My Brother,

Your post was fine. I think that I was replying to a troll posing as a troll.   :D  There is an entire thread somewhere here, and it's OK also. I found it somewhat humorous that a new user would have interest only in two subjects on a Christian Forum:  atheism and Mormonism. I think that Brother Ollie already did the detective work on this one and figured it out.  

Love In Christ,
Tom

Mormons are not disliked.
It is some of their teachings that are not in agreement with the first testament of Christ. Why should their "other testament of Jesus Christ" contradict so much His first and only testament? These contradictions with the Bible are what is disliked and found to be staright out of an uninspired man's mind. That of Joseph Smith.

 :'(
You've misunderstood my post, sorry if it was misleading,  read from the begining of what I posted this is a mormon doctrine, one of the several I listed that I have a problem with. I MOST defiantly do not believe that joeshp smith is better than Jesus, or a prophet of anything but his own personal gain.
musicllover

JitC,
     You need to compare there book to the Holy Scritptures, besides the obviouse fact that they have added to the Holy Scritptures (and we are told NOT to is a good hint that they are off. I have not read the book of Mormon, nor do I plan on reading it, I used diff books and sites to pick this information up, and then compared for my ownself. One side of my husbands family are devote and I had a brother who was into this church pretty deeply as well. Or otherwise I probably would have taken other christians word for it. Do some of your own research on what they believe and comparing. I don't mean to sound hateful, I am suggesting you check it out for your ownself, because you don't seem to believe anything that anyone has offered so far. I think you need a compare list. The book and the site I offered can give you some helpful direction. I kinda use the rule of thumb that if a "faith" (such as the mormons) believes they are the only ones getting into Heaven then they are a cult.
Jesus is Lord,
musicllover

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I was in the Mormons for a short time.  Because I was so eager for answers they taught me much of the above.  Too many to list now.  I was very obedient to do my geneology so my dead relatives could become Mormons though it was harder than when they had a living body. 

I read all the books they suggested and at the time I believed them.  Then 2 things happened that made me realize I couldn't be a good Mormon for I wasn't exactly living the way they thought I should.  Then God gave me a dream that got me out of it along with another situation I was in.  They actually excommunicated me and that wasn't heard of too much.

Later I met other ex-Mormons.  When I mentioned some of the doctrines I have heard of, they didn't believe me.  They just weren't "mature" enough to understand these strange concepts.  In short, I must have been more gullible to believe everything they told me. 

Many years later and living in a high rise, many of us sat on the front porch.  Two Mormon young men walked by.  One later spoke to them so they came up on the porch and began the same spiel I first heard. I spoke up and told them I used to be a Mormon.  They got really excited.

I asked if they really believed that they could become gods and have their own worlds.  Or did they really believe Jesus and Satan were brothers.

I never saw anyone leave as fast as they did.  They walked by several times after that but never stopped.

They have a different jesus not the Jesus of the Bible.

Their jesus is a spirit child of  god and the spirit brother of satan .

So the jesus they see as saviour is a false Christ

I'm very hesitant to suggest that adding to the Scriptures is a good idea at this point - for one thing, the Book of Mormon contains obvious contradictions and theological untruths. But I'm not sure where the warning about adding to Scriptures is. The early church obviously added a great deal to the scriptures. If the text applied for this principle is Revelation 22, then it's worth noting that that verse about adding and taking away seems to be referring to Revelation as such, rather than the Bible as such.

If there is another verse, though, I would be very grateful to know it. I could definitely use it in certain conversations.  ;D

God is the author of the scriptures, He is also the organizer of them. It is not an accident that that admonition falls at the end of the Scriptures .

God is immutable, He does not change or contradict himself

Deu 4:2   Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deu 12:32   What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Pro 30:6   Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Jesus offers this warning

Mat 15:9   But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.

I certainly never meant that he did. But that Revelation 22 admonition says:

"I warn everyone who hears the prophetic words in this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book."

In the KJV, if you prefer that translation for accuracy's sake, it says:

"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book."

Which is more verbose but has a comparable meaning. The warning in Revelation specifically pertains to the words of the book of Revelation.

The early church certainly did add to the words given by God, though I have faith that their additions were also given by God. The problem is, the verses in question aren't going to be used very convincingly against people who believe that THEIR more recent additions are ALSO given by God, because the existence of the New Testament is proof that God's revelation of His word did not end at the time of the writing of Deuteronomy or Proverbs. We receive the New Testament as canon by faith, but I'm still lacking where it says, within the text, that the canon is now closed.

A very good warning, in my mind, though an uncomfortable amount of modern theology seems to be the "commandments of men," and not just within the Catholic or Mormon churches either.

How many years ago was the Bible created?  How many books are in the Bible?  How do we know that we have an accurate, unchanged account of those books?  These books are written by man many hundreds of years ago, how do we really know they are accurate and that they weren't changed to suit the churches of those days?  How do we know that Joseph Smith wasn't a prophet of God?  Why can there not be prophets in these last days? 

There are pastors and people of 'good' standing who are disobeying the very commandments they teach!

For all the 'Christian' utterings going on in these forums, I have never come across more 'unchristian' thoughts, utterances and general dislike for fellow man.

If what goes on in these forums is what is meant by being chrisitan, no wonder people are turning away in droves!! 

There are a lot of people who need to take the splinter out of their eye first before running down others. 

It is one thing to use one's time in studying the Bible parrot fashion and being able to quote from it, it is quite another putting into action what the Bible teaches and showing love towards your fellow man.

Who are you to judge others?  For all your quotes of what it is to be Christian, at least churches like the Mormons etc, (who you all appear to be such 'learned scholars' of), their teachings do not involve criticism, putting down and such anti-christian behaviour.  They teach proper family values, love for fellow man and  believe that everyone has their own 'free agency'.

At the end of the day, it is not you who will sit in judgement of them, so why worry?  Concentrate on your own shortcomings and try save yourselves first. 

Talk about the extreminism of other religions?  Read these forums! 

Hello Pumkin,

First, I'll assume that you are a Mormon and find this thread offensive. I'll simply tell you that I'm much more concerned about your lost condition than I am in offending you. Whoever tells you the truth about JESUS CHRIST is doing you a BIG favor whether you appreciate it or not.

This is a Christian forum, so we make no apologies at all in telling people the truth about JESUS CHRIST and how to be saved. You probably already know what we believe, so there is nothing shocking here at all.

You are most welcome to stay with us. Many of us would love to tell you about JESUS CHRIST and how to be saved. If you are a Mormon, this will obviously be much different than what you have been taught. Again, we would make no apology at all for that. Eternity for you is at stake, so we really aren't concerned about you being offended with us stating the truth. We don't teach any Mormon doctrines here, mainly because they are against the teachings of the Holy Bible, and they don't result in the Salvation of anyone. It would not be loving or Christian of me to withhold the truth from you. So, I hope you stay and hear more.

Tom

Thankyou for your invite.  Firstly, let me clear something which I must have given the wrong impression for.  I am not anti any constructive, good teaching or missionary work.  I have been taught and read the Bible.  No, I do not know my Bible word for word, for that matter, neither do I know the Book of Mormon word for word!

What I do find offensive is the antogonism and general dislike of people who may believe something 'different'.  I am not talking soley about Mormons. What about Jews?  Hindus?  Some of the most amazing people belong to those religions!  The only difference of what is happening on these boards and the christian crusade, is that the people on these boards are not out killing and burning (I hope!).

I was born into a Catholic family and attended a convent.  In my youth I felt that the teachings were wrong and I couldn't identify with it.  I have attended methodist, Anglican, Congregational.  I have attended charismatic gatherings and yes, I have been baptised a Mormon.   Out of all the Churches I attended, the Mormon Church represented true Christian values.  Some of you are probably shuddering at the very thought!  ::)  NO, I have NOT been brain washed - something which people choose to believe as well!  It took me a long time to be baptised.  I prayed, pondered, investigated, questioned.  I am one of the most sceptical people around!

I am not going to champion the Mormons.  I know what I believe and as it has been clearly said on here, it is a 'Christian' site and Mormon teaching won't be tolerated. Fair enough.  We will leave it at that.   But I do note that while the forum is adamant it won't tolerate any Mormon doctrine, if finds no fault in trashing the Mormons at the same time! So, there is no chance of any belief not believed 'Christian' to actually 'defend' itself now, is there....... ;)

There may be faults in the Church. I will not deny that.  There may be questions which need answering.  But that is in any religion, even the Christian one. 

I am not frightened of listening to other people.  In fact, I was recently invited by an extremely good friend of mine to attend a ladies weekend of a charismatic church.  I had a lovely weekend of worshipping and fellowship.  And I did worship with them, why?  Because contrary to what people want to believe, we love Jesus Christ as our saviour.

Pumkin,

We don't have any pulpits here for false religions and cults, and we don't apologize at all for not allowing defense or their teaching here. If they want to defend or teach their beliefs, they can open their own forum or web site, and they have. We don't hate Mormons here at all, rather we believe that the Mormon doctrines are from the devil and anti-Christ. We don't have a pulpit here for the devil either.

The JESUS CHRIST who I worship and love is GOD, has always been GOD for eternity past, and will be GOD for eternity future. If you are a Mormon, you don't even know who JESUS CHRIST is, much less love or worship HIM. There is blasphemy involved when someone says that JESUS CHRIST was created and is a brother of lucifer. We don't allow blasphemy here either, but there are many other reasons why Mormon doctrine is not allowed or taught here.

However, the fact remains that we don't hate the Mormon people at all. We love them, and we risk our lives all over the world in trying to bring the Gospel of the Grace of God to them. The same is true for any other religious group or non-religious group who are lost and on their way to the eternal fires of hell. In fact, many thousands of Christians die every year in trying to bring the Gospel to the lost. So, it would be impossible to say that we hate them while we are risking and giving our lives to help them.

You mentioned people in other religions who you say are nice and good people. That's true, and I know some of those nice and good people, but nothing they are doing will result in them being Saved from eternal punishment. There is only one JESUS CHRIST, and HE is very GOD, the CREATOR. Belief in HIM, that HE died in our place on the Cross, and HE arose from the dead on the third day as our LIVING LORD AND SAVIOUR is the only way to be saved. Those who have accepted JESUS CHRIST as LORD over their lives, confessed their sins, and prayed for forgiveness will be spending eternal life with JESUS. Those who reject HIM will spend eternity in the fires of hell.

In terms of what some people say in their blasphemy of JESUS CHRIST, if would have been much better had they never heard HIS NAME than to blaspheme HIM.

Tom

I know and love Jesus Christ.  He is my Saviour.   

I am not here to argue about religion. Many people have been killed, tortured, bullied in the name of religion.  So much anger all for the name of religion.

You have your opinion and are entitled to it. 

Take care my friend  :)

Hi pumpkin,

You said
It is not our opinion but the word of God. God said it and I beleive it. Jesus Christ said Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


Their are many "nice" people in the world that do not and will not know Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. It is not being nice that gets you to heaven.

Tit 3:5  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6  Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7  That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Amen PR


The following Scriptures show God's plan for man:

Eph 1:3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
lEph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Eph 1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;



The following Scriptures tell us Jesus is God

Joh 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

This includes satan, who was created by God, and is not the spiritual brother of Jesus, but rather created by Him

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


The following Scriptures tell us we were bought with the Blood of Jesus

1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Jesus was nailed to the cross for our sins, for our salvation, for our redemption, He bought us back from the clutches of sin and death.

The prison has been stormed, and the gates of the prison opened, but unless we eave our prison cells and go forward into the light of freedom, we are still unredeemed in actuality.
Donald Bloesch

Jesus is the Only Way, there is no other way to salvation.
I will put my trust in Him and in Him alone. In Him Who is the Creator, not in any one who is merely a creation by Him.

AMEN PR and airIam2worship, God gave us his book the Bible, so God said it I believe it!

Amen Brothers and Sisters! - More beautiful posts that glorify the name of our precious Lord and Saviour, JESUS CHRIST.

Many over the centuries have blasphemed HIS Name, attempted to remove HIS Deity as Very GOD, and insult HIM with man-made doctrines. For whatever reason, this has become more and more popular with so-called religious groups, books, movies, and every type of assault that one can think of. BUT, the power and reality of GOD'S WORD, JESUS, and the Cross are just as strong as they were 2,000 years ago. No man or group of men have been able to diminish the power of the Gospel of the Grace of God. GOD'S WORD is still sharper than any two-edged Sword, regardless of the number of books written by self-proclaimed prophets who don't even know GOD.

Brothers and Sisters, there will be more false prophets in these possible last days of the Age of Grace. They will be counterfeits actually working for the devil, but they will deceive many. Our best defense will be a strong foundation in GOD'S WORD, not in books written by men.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 10:8-10 NASB  But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

I dislike no one. God tells me to to hate the sin, but love the sinner. I will follow what He says to do, under His one and only law, written in the one and only, true Bible.

I have family members that converted to being JW's. I have seen them come into my grandmother's home and go "right at her" about Christianity being wrong. She always came back with love and said, "you have your beliefs and I respect that. However, respect my faith as well and don't ever put down my Lord". JW's are a cult and there is no other way to put it. I don't do DOOR TO DOOR religion sale either, which Mormon's also do. We are to witness to others about Christ, but not use scare tactics of firey death and children screaming (as on many pamphlets) to do so. His truth doesn't cause fear. His truth brings peace.

I have friends that are mormon. I respect that they are, but will never agree or condone what they teach. One major issue we always come to is the Trinity. Mormon's don't believe in it, nor do they believe in other things that are in our bible. They also have their own teachings about Jesus, which I have seen but refuse to read. As for someone saying ANYONE is greater than Christ, I firmly oppose false prophets, as the bible tells me to. NO ONE is greater than Christ and never will be. Father, Son, Holy Spirit are all one. There will never be any greater, no matter how much one might believe they are. Enough said on that subject.

I follow one teaching--Christianity as taught through the Holy Bible. Praise Jesus!

God Bless,
Kelly

At the tender age of about 15 I became interested in the Mormon church due to being a fan of the Osmonds and ended up joinging it.  A few years went by and I got married ( he is NOT a Mormon... THANK GOD) and drited away from going to church. I must have been in my mid 20's, but the yearning for God was once again burning in my soul. I started watching some of the great programs on TBN and that is when IT hit me... what was missing from the Mormon church.. JESUS!!!  I was missing HIM!!! Then I remembered when I was younger how much I Loved Him and how much He was the center of my heart!  Without Jesus... there is NOTHING! That is one lesson that I will never forget!
         When or if you encounter a Mormon.... let Jesus really shine through... let His Love reach out to them....because that IS what they are missing.

      In His service... Tina

pumkin,

How many years ago was the Bible created?  Who knows cause as John states in the beginning there was the Word.  Now as far as when was the Bible as we know it compiled and "put together"? The OT was no later than 150BC.  The NT was in all actuality within the 1st or 2nd century. 

How many books are in the Bible?  66.  39 in the OT and 27 in the NT.  Now if you really want to get technical about it there are 43 in the OT and 23 in the NT.  The 4 Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were actually OT since the NT actually starts with resurrection, thus most of the 4 Gospels were before that and could actually be classified as OT scripture....but that is a topic for another day :)

How do we know that we have an accurate, unchanged accout of those books?
This is always a good one.  1st off historians and scholars alike will comment on how the Jewish people are meticulous in their transferring their scripture from one generation to the next.  There was a group of Jewish scribes that actually had a checksum in their copying.  If the math did not line up when they were finished with a section they would throw the entire section away and start over.  If the entire book they were working on did not match up then the whole book would be tossed and started over.  Archeology has shown that with the thousands of manuscripts, fragments, scrolls, etc that we have found from antiquity that OT has remained intact from as far back as the 1st-2nd century BC.  And the same can be said of the thousands of the same for the NT as well (just not BC, but more like 3rd-4th AD). 

ON top of the physical evidence that shows us that the Bible we have today is in the same state as it was about 2000 years ago we can look at the nature of God who is the true author of the Bible.  Would God allow His Word to be corrupted?  No. 

Are we putting faith that what we have is unaltered and accurate.  Sure we are.  But the evidence is showing that we are correct in that faith.  THe Bible has been unchanged for 2000 years it is safe to assume that the OT was unchanged for 4000+ years before that as well.

Why can there not be prophets in these last days?  Quite honestly there is no need.  Jesus was the greatest of prophets being God...who better to state the desire of God than God Himself?!  The important thing to note is that even if there were further prophets they would not teach anything against the Word of God.  Look at the prophets of the OT.  Not only do they refer from one to another but they NEVER counter or contradict what God has said.

So all in all if we can safely trust that the Bible as we know it is accurate and has not been changed.  Which is not a leap of faith but historically shown to be that through the many findings of ancient pieces and such.  Now we also know there will be no further covenants for Jesus taught us that He was it.  But even in Hebrews 13:20 lets us know the covenant is eternal "Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant"

Many have already addressed the comments about a "dislike for fellow man."  Not the man but sin. 

You also mentioned something of "believe that everyone has their own 'free agency" which is not true Biblically.  Jesus told us that there is but one way, and that was through him.  It is Jesus who acts as our agent.  And it is God, through Jesus, who provided us the path needed.  There was no negotiating our route to Heaven.  Paul and the others let us know that it was not through works that we gain salvation, it is not from anything we do but by the grace of Jesus that we gain acceptance into Heaven. 

You had also said "At the end of the day, it is not you who will sit in judgement of them, so why worry?  Concentrate on your own shortcomings and try save yourselves first. "  And as a Christian we are to do both.  We are to be examples (thus ensuring we are walking correctly).  Examples to who?  To the unsaved.  If we were to only worry of our own shortcomings before worrying about other people then we are selfish.  And we are not in accordance with Jesus.  Jesus told us that if a man were to ask for our coat we should also give him our shirt.  Above and beyond.  The reason we "worry" about our selves and our walk with Jesus is because we want to be an example to those that are unsaved.  It is because we have been given a Great Commission to teach the Word of Jesus to the world that we keep our walk Christlike.  Such a vicious circle :)  But because of our love for other people and not of ourselves we try to keep our spiritual life as well as secular life glorious to Jesus.

I am sure I speak for many here when I say that we love you and will pray for you.

Sincerely
Brother Jerry

(http://www.christiantalkzone.net/forum/images/smilies/tiphat.gif) Greetings in the name of Christ Jesus, pumkin. I wish to offer a small rebuttal.




This is a red herring. You are attempting to undermine the Bible in order to elevate the Book of Mormon. However, we are discussing the reliability of Mormon documents and teachings, not the reliability of the Bible.

For instance, Mormonism teaches the existence of multiple Gods (D&C 121:32 (http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/121/32#32), D&C 121:28 (http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/121/28#28), D&C 132:20 (http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/132/20#20), etc.), while Biblical Scripture teaches the existence of only one God (Isaiah 45:5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2045:5;&version=31;)). In response, Mormon apologists must insert unwarranted presuppositions into the Biblical text to harmonize these contradictory teachings.


You are engaging in a negative burden of proof logical fallacy. The person making the positive proposition bears the burden of proof, not vice versa.

How do you know that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God? For instance, consider the "Golden Tablets," which are Joseph Smith's primary "accomplishment." The Church of Latter-Day Saints claims that the "Golden Tablets" were written in "Ancient Reformed Egyptian" hieroglyphics. However, there is no evidence that this style of hieroglyphics exists. To the contrary, Mormon apologists try to circumvent this problem by equivocating different existing dialects of Egyptian hieroglyphics with "Ancient Reformed Egyptian" hieroglyphics. But, since no tangible sample of "Ancient Reformed Egyptian" exists, this response relies on unsubstantiated plausibility.

Moreover, there is no evidence that the "Golden Tablets" existed. Only Joseph Smith saw, read, and translated the alleged physical tablets, which means that his "translations" rely on self-validation. The contents of the "Golden Plates" could have been meaningless demonic scribble produced by Smith's occultic practices, but how could the observer know the difference? 

This question raises certain concerns, which start with the Book of Mormon's inaccurate historical claims. For instance, the Book of Mormon claims that "barley" (Mosiah 7:22 (http://scriptures.lds.org/mosiah/7), Mosiah 9:9 (http://scriptures.lds.org/mosiah/9), Alma 11:7, 15 (http://scriptures.lds.org/alma/11)), "wheat" (Mosiah 9:9 (http://scriptures.lds.org/mosiah/9)), and "coins" (Alma 11:7, 15 (http://scriptures.lds.org/alma/11)) existed in ancient America, between 600 B.C. and 421 A.D. However, since there is no archeological or historical evidence to support these claims, Mormon apologists claim that these words have uncertain meanings.

Moreover, why is there no archeological evidence left behind by the Lamanites, Nephites, Jaredites, and Mulekites in ancient America, between 600 B.C. and 421 A.D.? They used cement (Helaman 3:7, 11 (http://scriptures.lds.org/hel/3)), hard metals like steel and iron (Jarom 1:8 (http://scriptures.lds.org/jarom/1), 2 Nephi 5:15, 16 (http://scriptures.lds.org/2_ne/5), etc.), horses (Enos 1:21 (http://scriptures.lds.org/enos/1), Alma 18:9 (http://scriptures.lds.org/alma/18), 3 Nephi 3:22 (http://scriptures.lds.org/3_ne/3), 3 Nephi 6:1 (http://scriptures.lds.org/3_ne/6), etc.), and other farm animals (Enos 1:21 (http://scriptures.lds.org/enos/1), 3 Nephi 3:22 (http://scriptures.lds.org/3_ne/3), 3 Nephi 6:1 (http://scriptures.lds.org/3_ne/6), etc.), correct? 

I could continue with more examples, but I believe that the point is made.


This is a strawman argument. The issue is not about the existence of Biblical prophets, but questioning the credibility of Joseph Smith's status as a prophet.


The spiritual man judges all things (1 Corinthians 2:15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%202:15;&version=31;)), which requires the testing of all things (1 Thessalonians 5:21 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Thessalonians%205:21;&version=31;)). This prerogative includes the righteous judgment of fellow believers (1 Corinthians 5:12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%205:12;&version=31;)).


This is incorrect. The LDS believes in Conditional Salvation, or a works-based salvation (ref. reading (http://scriptures.lds.org/tgg/grcmnmyf)). How can Christ Jesus save us, if his substitutional sacrifice on the cross is not an all-sufficient atonement (Hebrews 10:12-14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%2010:12-14%20;&version=31;), Hebrews 7:27 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%207:27%20;&version=31;) + Hebrews 9:25-28 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%209:25-28;&version=31;), 1 Peter 3:18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=67&chapter=3&verse=18&version=31&context=verse))? Salvation by grace precludes works, otherwise grace ceases to be grace (Romans 11:6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2011:6;&version=31;)), no?

If the BoM is compareable to the BiBle, as it says in the introduction to the BoM,  and as you stated Pumkin, that the Bible us unreliable as a source of truth, then it must be the case that the Book of Mormon is also unreliable as a source of truth.

Are you in the habit of believing something is true, that you know to be false?

First of all, I am not Protestant, Catholic or any denomination started by man. I follow Christ--I am a Christian. There is no other name for it.

Secondly, the Bible has been disputed by "so called experts" for years, but they have yet to disprove anything in the Bible that is recorded. As of this date in time, NOTHING can be disproved in the Bible for content, date or recorded miracles. However, the Bible has been proved, time and time again as being the correct (and only) book about God. Many have tried to follow it (See the Da Vinci Code post where I put the dates for each different book that was ever written--the New Testament is the only one published soon after the death and resurrection of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ) in other books and doctrines but most can be disproved. The Bible, as of yet cannot! That says something, doesn't it?

Any other book written from any "religion" is false doctrine. The only true doctrine from God and about Jesus is THE BIBLE. It doesn't matter which version you read, as long as it states "THE HOLY BIBLE" on it. The only true lawmaker is God. Although other religions have laws of their own that they make their members abide by, the only TRUE LAW, not made by man is the Law of God! Jesus Christ is God. AKA==the Trinity!

I have had enough of the DOOR TO DOOR RELIGION SALESMEN this week, coming in pairs of two and trying to throw hellfire and damnation in my face if I don't convert to their beliefs. Mormon also goes door to door. Christians, who believe that Jesus is the one and only true Savior and the son of God don't have to go door to door to sell their beliefs. The truth speaks for itself. As for fire and damnation, I don't have to worry about it. I follow the Life, the Truth and the Way--Jesus Christ. Through Him I will go to my Heavenly Father and no one on earth can tell me otherwise. I only listen to Jesus.

There, I made my spew. Take it as you will. It doesn't matter to me what may be disputed by what I wrote--the truth is, Jesus is the only One that can dispute anything==and I know He won't, for He is the only truth.

God Bless,
Kelly

I invite you to visit my blog.

http://members.christiansunite.com/blogging.cgi

I wrote "Defeating Mormonism at the Door" for the youth group at church, specifically, and generally, for anyone who see's the value in useing their own books against them.  Right after the 10 pages of text, is an alphabetical list of their "scriptures" I referr to in the text.

Let me know how I did--if it's understandable and all that.  I ain't a wrighter, so if something needs to be communicated clearer, let me know.   ;D


A couple definitions of Mormon names:

Lehi--jawbone of an ass- Judges 15:17

Mormon--Greek word, one meaning is "monster".  In the Satanic Bible, by Anton Szandor LaVey, pg. 145, Mormo is listed as one of the "infernal names".  On pg. 59, ' Mormo' is listed as the Greek king of the Ghouls

Moroni--moron with an 'I' added.

Mammon--Aramaic god of wealth and profit.  In the Book of Mormon, the word Mammon is capatolized, they knew it was a proper name.( 3 Nephi 13:24, Matthew 6:24)

Taken from the "Official Morman website," morman.org

"Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is Heavenly Father’s Only Begotten Son in the flesh. He is our Redeemer. Through Jesus Christ, Heavenly Father has provided a way for all people to become like Him and return to live with Him forever.

We love Christ. We worship Christ. He is our example and our Savior."

As for myself, I have never thought Mormans were all bound for hell, just as I don't believe all Catholics are bound for hell. It is about a personal relationship with Jesus, as the Son of our living God - end of story. Accept Jesus as your savior and make Him Lord of your life!

As pointed out above Mormonism is a cult. The wording used on their site is very deceiving as they believe that Jesus was and is a completely different entity from God and many more things that are definitely not taught in the Bible. They hold their other books as having more importance than the Bible.

Hello Lefty,

Welcome to Christians Unite.

Please read this entire thread again because the absolute truth about Mormons is here. This thread isn't about hating Mormons, mainly because Christians don't hate lost people and never will hate lost people. There are a lot of Mormon doctrines that are much more bizarre that aren't even mentioned here, and those Mormon doctrines are also in complete disagreement with the Holy Bible. In short, there is a very thin veneer that makes Mormons appear to be Christians, but a glance beyond the initial hype reveals a completely false religion, blasphemy of GOD, and elevation of man over JESUS CHRIST. The detailed Mormon teachings about JESUS CHRIST are blasphemy, and they don't resemble the JESUS CHRIST of the Holy Bible.

Bluntly, Mormonism is a cult that has nothing to do with Christianity except blasphemy of GOD THE FATHER, GOD THE SON, AND GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT. Telling someone that you love JESUS CHRIST and then grossly distorting who HE is does NOT please GOD. Those of Islam do the same thing, and Christians don't hate them either. We love them and have a burden for them because they are LOST.

To help you begin a search for the absolute TRUTH, I'll give you some hints to help you get started.

GOD THE FATHER IS ALMIGHTY GOD.

GOD THE SON, JESUS CHRIST, IS ALMIGHTY GOD.

GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT IS ALMIGHTY GOD.

The three are distinct, but they are one.

The are known as the GODHEAD or the HOLY TRINITY, and they are also the CREATOR, yet the three are one.

Not one of the GODHEAD was created because they are the CREATOR.

The GODHEAD has existed for eternity past and will exist for eternity future.
_______________________________

Joseph Smith was a false prophet, and his book of mormon is fiction.
_______________________________

Mormons are quite welcome on Christians Unite, just as all lost people are quite welcome on Christians Unite. However, we don't allow the teaching of mormon doctrine here because it disputes the Holy Bible and blasphemes GOD. This is not subject to debate here at all because this is a Christian forum. You are most welcome to stay and learn about the REAL JESUS CHRIST. There aren't any lies about mormon doctrine in this thread, just a small dose of the absolute TRUTH. If the TRUTH upsets some people or makes them angry, so be it. Eternity is at stake, so anything less than the TRUTH would be very cruel and hateful.

The "Mormons" is the Church of   "contradictions", and of "deception".

See the 13 Articles of Faith of the Mormons:
They are one the first statements they will show when they go to the homes... some of them are beautiful, but some of them are great Christian deceptions.... be aware!.

The "Bible":

It is good... but it is good for nothing, at least it agrees with the "Book of Mormon". In fact, Smith introduced 125 new verses only in the New Testament, and changed 1,475 verses in the Bible.

- Only the Mormons use "their Bible", no other Christian does... in fact, no other Christian denomination considers the Mormons as Christians, though they have the name of "Jesus Christ" as the main title of their Church.

"Jesus Christ", and the "Father":

"God the Father", and "Jesus Christ" of the Mormons are not those of the real Bible:

- "God the Father", for the Mormons, was once a man, but became God. He has a physical body, as does his wife, Heavenly Mother. Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three separate gods. Worthy men may one day become gods themselves.

- "Jesus Christ", like God the Father, for the Mormons is "eternal" because he has no end, like any other man, but he is "not eternal", because he had a beginning: He was born from Adam (who was God), by sexually cohabiting with the Virgin Mary in a physical, flesh relationship. Brigham declared emphatically, "Jesus was not begotten by the Holy Ghost". Jesus was married and had children with the two sisters of Lazarus, Maria and Martha... and Jesus became God, as you and I can become God, like Him!... everything contrary of what the real Bible says!.

- An another strange thing of the Mormons: Jesus and Lucifer are brothers!.

The "Latter-day Saints":

The "Latter-day Saints" of the title of their Church, are the "Mormons", because all the churches and creeds before Smith are "abomination" into the Lord, as revealed to Smith by God the Father and Jesus Christ!.

- Any man can become God... "As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man can become", is one of the most famous aphorisms of the Mormons... but of course, only the Mormons can become God, if they are faithful to their Church!... and only "men", not "women".

- This concept of "every man is god", has been taken up by the New Age Movement, but using different methods to become god.

- The Mormons could build on earth a "Garden of Eden", and that's the idea of Utah, USA... but Utah is still not a Garden of Eden!.

The "family"... "polygamy"... "women":

This is another "contradiction" and "deception"of the Mormon Church:

- The "family", "is the most important unit of life", for the Mormons... however, there is polygamy!

-"Polygamy", is forbidden in the "Book of Mormons"; however, Smith, in his 132 revelation was ordered by God to have polygamy, as in the life of Solomon: So, Smith had 27 wives officially, and 60 unofficially, and the second great leader, Brigham Young, had 25 wives with 56 children, and proclaimed, "he who rejects the doctrine of polygamy shall be condemned"... and "the only men who become gods are those who enter polygamy"... however, a third "little Pope", Fielding, abolished officially polygamy in 1904.

... Today, polygamy is forbidden in the Mormon Church, but an estimated 30,000 fundamentalist Mormons have plural marriages in Utah.

- "Women", cannot become priests or church leaders, and cannot become gods... may be this is one reason why in the Mormon Church women have the highest rate of suicides in the nation, the highest percentage in mental institutions, and the highest percentage of divorces in the nation.

The "Book of Mormon":

The "Book of Mormon" is the greatest deception: It was dictated by Smith to Cowdery, not face to face, but from behind a curtain, in a period of 4 years, since 1827 to 1830.

- The story of Smith, is that the Book was written by Mormon in the year 400 A.C., and found by Smith 1,400 years later in Cumorah, near Palmyra, N.Y., with the help of angel Moroni. The Book was buried, and engraved on thin sheets of gold metal, nobody knows how many sheets, 200?, 2,000?... and with the book, there were a pair of large "supernatural spectacles", to translate the reformed Egyptian hieroglyphics of the sheets.

- After translating the Book, Smith returned it to Moroni, without even showing to his wives this great unique treasure... nobody knows what he did with the "supernatural spectacles", another unique great treasure!...

... But for most evangelicals, the Book is a plagiarism of a fiction novel written by Solomon Spaulding in 1816, "Manuscript Story"... and may be this is the reason why Smith always dictated the book from behind a curtain.

- Martin Harris, an old friend of Smith, portrayed him as "a religious faker, a charlatan", in a letter in 1830.

"Contents" of the Book of Mormon:

It is another great deception:

- The Book relates a thousand-year history of a lost tribe of Israelites who left Palestine and came to America to become the ancestors of the Native Americans. The leader of the lost tribe was Lehi, who had two sons: Laman and Nephi. They lived in pease and love, until the Lamanites became bad people, who fought and annihilated the Nephites near Palmyra, N.Y. in 428 AC But, before his demise, Mormon, the Nephite leader, wrote and buried his Book, including the appearance of Christ in America, after his resurrection, instituting the ordinances of baptism, communion, and priesthood.

-- The Book was published in 1830, with the subtitle "Another Testament of Jesus Christ", and it is the most sacred scripture for the Mormons, "the most correct book of any on earth"...

... But here comes the big deception:

- The Mormon's doctrine often contradicts the Book of Mormon's doctrine:

- The Book says, "there is only one God", Mormonism teaches "there are many gods" (Mosiah 15:1-5, Alma 11:28, 2 Nephi 31:21, Journal of Discourses, Smith, Vol.6, pag..5).

- The Book says, "the Trinity is one God", Mormonism teaches, "the Trinity is 3 separate gods" (Alma 11:44, Mosiah 15:5, 2 Nephi 31:21, Articles of Faith,Talmage, pag.35, 1985).

- The Book says, "God is Spirit", Mormonism teaches "God has the form of a man" (Alma 18:24,28, Journal of Discourses, Smith, Vol.6, p.3.

- The Book says, "polygamy condemned", but polygamy was taught and practiced (Jacob 1:15, 2:23-31, Ether 10:5,7, Mosiah 11:2,4, Journal of Discourses, Young, Vol.3, p.266).

... And another big deception:

At least 12 essential Mormon doctrines are not found in the Book of Mormon: The Church organization, the Aaronic priesthood, Celestial Marriage, Baptism for the Dead, men my become gods, the pre-existing doctrine, the 3 degrees of glory in heaven, eternal progression, God is an exalted man, plurality of gods, plurality of wives doctrine, Word of Wisdom...

The "biggest deception":

The "biggest deception" of the Mormons is that their "Sacred Books" contradict each other, so, if you tell them that Mormonism teaches that there are many gods, they will show you the Book of Mormon teaching that there is only one God... and so forth...

To be cont....

The "Articles of Faith":

When they go to your home, they show you some of their "Articles of Faith", those appealing to a good Christian, but they are very deceptive: For example, the Article 1 says, "We believe in God, the eternal Father, and in his son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Spirit"... but they don't say that they are 3 gods!... and they don't say that the Father is "eternal" only because he has no end, like any other men, but he had a beginning, so, he was actually "not eternal"... Article 8 says, "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly"... but they don't explain to you that the "right translation" of Smith contains 1,475 verses changed from the real Bible.

The "Sacred Books" of the Mormons":

The "Book of Mormon"; The "Bible", correctly translated; "Doctrines and Covenants"; "The Pearl of Great Price", with the "Articles of Faith", and, like the Book of Mormon, is considered to be a divine revelation superior to the Bible.

Joseph Smith was a "false prophet":

Smith thought he was living in the last days before Christ return, and prophesied Jesus Second coming for 1890, but he died in 1844, without witnessing the non-fulfillment of his prophecy.

"Restitution"... the "key word":

The key word for the Mormons is "restitution", the words of Peter in Act.3:21, "restitution of all things"... they claim this restitution, or restoration, began in 1820 with Smith: The restitution of divine truths with the Book of Mormons, restitution of the priesthood, of sacred temples... but they don't realize that Peter was talking about "Jesus Christ", who restored already everything with his death and resurrection almost 2,000 years ago... Peter was not talking about Smith!.

The "blacks":

Smith taught that they were the defendants of Cain and therefore cursed... they were barred from the priesthood until Spencer Kimball received a "revelation" abrogating this injunction. Kimball died in 1985, and was succeeded as President by Ezra Taft Benson.

"Good people"... another deception:

It is impressive to see the young Mormons dedicating 2 years full time to the Church as missionaries, going the two in two, with closely cropped hair and regalia of dark suits, white shirts, subdued ties, polished shoes... representing the most basic human values: Patriotism, sobriety, familial responsibilities, hard work...

- Their sincerity is beyond question, 30,000 of them, garner 200,000 converts each year...

... But they are deceived, as millions of young Communists were deceived, as the followers of Jimmy Jones were deceived... and deceived people are the best to deceive other people...

... They are deceived, expecting to become God, and create new planets... they are deceived with the satanic and masonic rituals of the "celestial marriages" in the temple... they are deceived thinking that with the proxy "baptism for the dead" they can save their ancestors... a "baptism for the dead" taken erroneously from 1Cor.15:29...

- I pray Jesus to light the life of those Mormons of good faith, and I order Satan to go out of the heart of any Mormon who may read these lines. Only Satan can make up such deceptions and contradictions. Thank you, Jesus.

A Rich Church:

When you visit Temple Square in Salt Lake City, everything is "free"... but don't be deceived... the Mormon Church has assets of $8 "billion", making it the wealthiest Protestant Church in America... not everything is free!... all this fortune comes from the "deceived members", they end up giving to the Church their money, time, and life.

Cults, Different groups, on C.U. (http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?topic=6468.0)

I beg to differ.


This is false. The Mormon Church does in fact teach that Jesus is the son of God and that he is the Messiah.


This is not the teachings of their church.


This not why they believe genealogy is important. They believe it is important because they believe in baptism of the dead, which is where you can be baptized in proxy for a person who passed away without being baptized.


Not sure where you are getting your information but this again is not even close to the truth of what the Mormon Church teaches.

The reason Mormons can answer the mainstream theologians questions debating their beliefs is because they debate false notions about what the Mormon Church teaches and not what they actual teach. I believe they do more harm than good and should get their facts straight before debating Mormons. If you want to know what they actually teach then visit their web site and see for yourself.

Having “investigated” their church and debating with Mormon theologians for several years I came to the conclusion that their church isn’t the “True Church”, Joseph Smith was not a prophet of God and the Book of Mormon was not a historical document written by many men but a document written by one man and borrowed heavily from the Bible. I read the Book of Mormon several times and discovered that the Book of Mormon does not contradict the Bible. All of their teachings that distinguish them from other ‘Christian’ churches do not come from the Book of Mormon at all but from revelation of their prophets. That’s my two cents worth.

Tawhano

And this is where I would have to say that a little further digging is required.

Let us take a look at what the Bible has to say about God and what the Mormon's say about God shall we.

God
Bible: Isaiah 43:11 states "There is only one God"  This can also be found in Is 44:6,8 and 45:5
Mormon:  Book of Abraham chapter 4:3 "And they (the gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light
*This shows the Mormon faith as believing in multiple Gods.
Bible: Psalm 90:2 God has always been God.  This can also be found in Is 57:15
Mormon: God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!!!  ...We have imagined that God was God from all eternity.  I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see.  (this from the Teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith, P 345)

Jesus' Birth
Bible: Is 7:14, Matt 1:23 Jesus was born of the virgin Mary
Mormon: Journal of Discourses Vol 8 p 115 "The birth of the Savior was as natural as the births of our children; it was the result of natural action.  He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers.
* This clearly teaches the idea that God took a fleshly form and came down and conceived Jesus, which would have thus made Mary no longer a virgin.

Jesus
Bible: John 3:16 is one verse that says Jesus is God's ONLY son.
Mormon: Gospel through the Ages p15 would state that Jesus is the brother of Lucifer

These are just a few of the many problems with the Mormon cult.  They have many many different books other than the book of Mormon, which they use for their doctrine.  And you will find that many are hard to find in print outside of the church. 

And one cannot say that they do not use those today.  I pulled this excerpt from a Mormon church website

"The Mormon church is led today by a prophet of God and twelve apostles who receive revleation from God on how the affairs of His church should be conducted.  God , being the same yesterday, today, and forever, continues to use the same pattern He followed in Bible days;  He teaches us today in much the same way as He taught people in ancient times."

So this statement (and problems with it in a moment) would state that the teachings that apostles and prophets have written in the discources and things of that nature were from God.  And that God is the same so their meanings have not changed either.  They would not say that one day Jesus is only son of God and then the next say that Jesus is brother of Lucifer.

The problems even with their statement is that if they were to believe the NT at all they would see that when Jesus came there also came a difference in how God teaches, and that there had been throughout.  Even throughout the OT there is a difference in how God works with the people of Israel.  For 600 years before Christ, God had not revealed any revelations.  Right there is a difference. 

Filled with contradictions and deceit.  This is not a religion of Christ in any way except trying to pull in converts with the name of Christ.

Amen Brother Jerry.

Like many cults it appears on the surface to be one thing but when one actually delves into their teachings is when you find the total falseness of their teachings. Even the Mormons themselves admit that they serve a "different Jesus Christ" ( as stated by Mormon president Gordon B. Hinckley).


When reading such works as Articles of Faith, by James Talmage and The Mormon Doctrine, Journal of Discourses it becomes quite evident that they do not even follow the Book of Mormon.

The statements made in this thread are in fact a truth.

Tawhano,

If you did such an investigation and arrived at these conclusions, you would arrive at the same conclusions about Islam and every other false religion. In fact, I could make up a religion right now, and you wouldn't find anything wrong with it.

We're not talking about anything small or nit-picking. If you can't see what's being referred to in this thread, you wouldn't be looking. It really is just this simple. Mormonism isn't even close to Christianity, rather an anti-type of Christianity. Mormonism involves blasphemy of GOD and JESUS CHRIST with the lies that are taught in this false religion. We know precisely what they teach, and this thread is completely accurate. To see it, one must simply open their eyes.

It is apparent that none of you actually read my post but instead read part of it and decided I was defending the Mormon Church and needed to be corrected; I was not. I was pointing out the falsehoods presented by members of this board and none of you provided any evidence to the contrary.


Which is essentially what I said: “All of their teachings that distinguish them from other ‘Christian’ churches do not come from the Book of Mormon at all but from revelation of their prophets.”

I have to ask you blackeyedpeas, just what in my post made you come to the conclusion you did that I wouldn’t find anything wrong with a religion you made up?

Hello Tawhano,

That's obvious and already answered. You find nothing wrong with Mormonism, and I'm sure that I could make up something more reasonable than Mormonism. I would start out by not making JESUS CHRIST created and a brother of Lucifer. This one step would bring it 100 times closer to Christianity, and I could just make up the rest as I went. This would be what Joseph Smith did, but I honestly think that I could do a better job of making up a religion than he did. I certainly wouldn't use Mormonism as a pattern because it is riddled with obviously false information from the time that Joseph Smith dreamed it up. I would want to make it harder to prove that my made up religion was baloney.

I would also change all of the names and certainly not use any of the names of the HOLY TRINITY. I wouldn't dare commit blasphemy, so I would invent names closer to Moroney. I think you should get the picture.

If there are members of the Mormon church who have rejected the founders doctrines, principles, and books in their teachings, it would stand to reason that they shouldn't call themselves Mormons. It really wouldn't matter if they were still committing blasphemy against the HOLY TRINITY, so I wouldn't care what percentage of the official doctrines they were teaching. It would still be a cult and a false religion.

Tawhano,

I will admit that in my post I did nothing relating to the specifics that were posted.  However based on your post, the entire post, I still got the impression that although you did not believe personally what the Mormons believe that you were still defending their beliefs.

My point being though that their underlying beliefs although they look Christian for the most part on the surface are far from it underneath.  And that many many Mormons believe that the church they are attending is no different than any other.  But in fact it is supporting a belief that is far from Christian.  What is sad about this is that even their articles of faith have some major conflicts with traditional Christian doctrine.

2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
** So we are born sinless and are judged upon our actions.  This goes against many teachings of the Bible.

Some of the others are not as bad but more quirky. 

Thank you for confirming my suspicion that you did not in fact read my post but glanced through it and caught that I brought up points where incorrect statements were made about the Mormon teachings and incorrectly assumed I was defending Mormonism. No where in my post do I even slightly indicate that I believe there is nothing wrong with Mormonism.  Had you actually read my post in it’s entirety you would see that it wasn’t the point I was bringing up.

I am deeply concerned and offended by your false accusations.

Hello Tawhano,

I would greatly prefer that you be offended than LOST. There is nothing about Mormonism except being lost, so there is no point of any kind to make. Plainly and bluntly - it's a false religion. I've not done anything except tell you the TRUTH. I'll tell the next person the truth also, and I won't feel bad about it at all. ETERNITY is at stake, so I don't play games with the TRUTH of the GOSPEL of GOD'S GRACE.

Looks like to me here you have brought up some great stuff.

The problem being that his post was in response to mine but addresses nothing that I posted.

If that is the impression you got then it was a preconceived notice from the fact that I questioned the falsehoods put forth on this thread and therefore must be the enemy come to defend Mormonism. You couldn’t have possibly understood my post and come to that conclusion especially after I said that I do not believe the Mormon Church is the ‘true church’ and that Joseph Smith was not a prophet of God which is the very core of that religion. No, the reason you came to that conclusion is because I dare to question something posted as fact when it was a falsehood.

You offend me by your preconceive notion that I in any way condone Mormonism or adhere to its doctrines and therefore I am lost. I see that you are a moderator on this site, am I to conclude that from your unwarranted offensive remarks that this site condones religious bigotry and hatred?

Hello Tawhano,

The answer to this question and everything else you've argued is already in this thread, so read it. You really shouldn't assume or conclude anything except what's already posted in this thread with more than sufficient details. I have better things to do with my time. You might also want to read the forum rules.

There is nothing hateful or bigoted in telling the truth. Others use those words today in an attempt to prevent the truth from being told. In fact it is a loving act to attempt to tell the truth about cults. Loving because Christians would have all to know the truth and be saved from these false cults that do nothing but lead them into eternal death.

Magicians are illusionists who entertain with wonderful things that appear real. Of course their craft is not real magic any more than the Wizard of Oz was more than a man behind a curtain. It is masterful illusion, the art of misdirection, a play upon our credulity. A magician lures us into believing we have seen something that is not really there.

The book of mormon cannot stand up to any tests by anyone of any knowledge of the Bible, theology, archaeology, geography, or history. It has failed these tests miserably.

While there are small portions of it that replicate the Holy Bible with different names there is much left to be desired. In fact these similarities have been proven to be plagiarized from other earlier writings and some even from the King James Bible.

The theology of the Book of Mormon contradicts the theology of the Bible in some significant areas (e.g., its doctrine of the afterlife, its doctrine of the "land of promise," and its understanding of prophecy), and it contradicts itself in its prophecies alluding to Joseph Smith, Jr.

The Bible plainly states that the gospel, with its inclusion of Gentiles, was not fully revealed until after Christ's death. However, the Book of Mormon maintains that this knowledge was had in 545 B.C.

The Bible says believers were first called Christians after Paul's ministry in Antioch. However, the Book of Mormon claims people were known by this title as early as 73 B.C.

The Holy Ghost was bestowed on the Christians at the time of Pentecost. Yet the Book of Mormon claims that people received the gift of the Holy Ghost as early as 545 B.C.

In the Old Testament the only ones who could be priests were the descendants of Levi, one of the twelve sons of Israel. However, the Book of Mormon story claims that descendants of the tribe of Manasseh (Alma 10:3) were made priests.

The Old Testament teaches that the first born of the flocks were to be given automatically to the Lord. Sacrifices were to be made from their remaining animals. The Book of Mormon claims that the Nephites were keeping the law of Moses. However, the Nephites broke the law of Moses by using the first of the flocks for burnt offerings. These should have already been given to the Lord as tithing.

The Bible states that all of King Zedekiah's sons were killed. Contrary to the Bible, the Book of Mormon claims that one son of King Zedekiah escaped destruction and came to the Americas.

The Bible prophesied that Jesus would be born in Bethlehem. However, the Book of Mormon said he would be born at Jerusalem.

It has geographical inconsistencies. The book of mormon says that Jesus was born in Jerusalem.

Even though not every place named in the Bible has actually been located, enough sites have been discovered to give the Bible a considerable amount of trust.

On the other hand, Mormons must place an inordinate amount of trust in a book that has virtually no historical evidence to support its authenticity. No discoveries have been made in the New World to give credence to any of the places mentioned in the Book of Mormon. The LDS Church has yet to produce any clear evidence to support the notion that Nephites and Jaredites were real people groups that existed outside of Smith's imagination. The idea that the Indian people are Semitic ancestors of the Book of Mormon "Lamanites" also has its share of problems, both historically and genetically (DNA evidence refutes this).

There is much more evidence that the book of mormon is nothing more than a fary tale with bits and pieces of truth added in. Too much to be able post it all here. While looking at the book of mormon on the surface it may seem to be "Okay", once one delves into it they find that it is a false document that is nothing more than complete blasphemy and attempts to do nothing but discredit God's word.

There was not preconceived about my reply.  I read your post as well as your comments about how you found that to not be the true church.  And I still got the impression you were defending the Mormon religion.  You may not have meant it that way but that is how I perceived it by reading your post.  One reason being is that I can say I have attended a Church of God church and I would say that they are not the true church, but I would say that they are still Christians and that their doctrines are slightly different than what I interpret the Bible to indicate in those matters.  But they are still Christians.  However with Mormons I cannot say that they are Christians if they are followers of the Mormon cult.  So the statement of true church is ambiguous and thus I did not interpret it as you had meant it.

As far as questioning things that are posted as fact when they are falsehoods...I think you should take a look at my posting and you will find that I will do the same as well.  If there is something that is incorrect I will bring it to light.  As others here have said the truth should always be brought out and that it will stand in the test of time.