ChristiansUnite Forums

-where are we going with the music? I for one see little difference these days between the two.  Here are some things that erk me so bad:

a) WHEN THEY CHANGE THE KEY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SONG
b) If you don't sing the song, speaking as when you have regular conversation, you have failed big time!
c) the mockery to people i have heard give to somebody when he truly sings out of the heart -yes it might erk to have somebody that truly doesn't have the voice, but if it is done with taste and without being all out loud what is the problem? i really want to get this sorted out guys

Digme:  kinda hard to know just where you're going with this, or what music you're talking about.

As a musician, I can only say....changing keys (modulating) isn't all bad...sometimes it's very effective in raising the level of intensity. Granted, it gets to be a little much when done 3 or 4 times, or in every song, but..............

Speaking a few words?  "why me, Lord.....?" (spoken)..."what have I ever done..." (sung). A failure?  ???

I would venture to say that anyone mocking someone else who is singing (or making just a joyful noise) from the heart is someone who is lacking Christ in their own heart, and is stuck on themselves.

IMHO....most of the "music" being touted today (this century) as mainstream, or "with it" in the Christian arena is somewhat lacking in redeeming factors (not that I'm stuck on the 'old' stuff).....but I get pretty turned off when I see groups doing the same, looking the same, and acting the same as anybody I can see in the secular arena (Kiss, Metallica, Stones, etc.). And when they NEVER mention Jesus, or the blood, well..............

And to really cap it off, a whole lot of it is purely BAAAAADDDDDD doctrine!

And to really cap it off, a whole lot of it is purely BAAAAADDDDDD doctrine!

There has always been bad doctrine in song down thru the
ages:  ie  build my mansion next door to Jesus?

He promised us a place in the new Jerusalem , not a mansiion!
"In my fathers house are many mansions, I go to prepare a
PLACE FOR YOU, that where I am there you may be also.

Many people condemn the music of today, but let us look at
where the music of the sacred music was derived. It came
from the popular bar room song of that day!
My L-rd can take anything that the enemy of our soul has
twisted and perverted, and turn it back again for H-s glory!

Revelations tells us "thou art worthy to receive glory, and
honor and power, for thou hast created ALL things, and for
thy pleasure they were created, thou art worthy O L-rd."

I too am a musician, and a song writer. I write across all of
styles of music. Country-jazz-r&b-contempory-hard rock-and
yes even rap(and I don't even like rap). All of the music gives
glory to Yeshua, and all have their place in the worship
sevices.  

I do agree with you Evangelist that some of the lyrics out
there are really out there! ;D
what we need to do is seperate the good from the bad, and
in all things : "let all ye that hath breath praise ye the L-rd"

respectfully yours in Yeshua:

 ;D  ravenloche,   ;D

Them's the ones I meant!

Like "drop kick me Jesus, thru the goal posts of life...."

or

"ooohhhh.....ooooohhhhh.........ooooohhhhhhh.........infuse me.........ooooohhhhhhhh..........gotcha72............ooooohhhhhhhh!"

Uh huh.

Worship Song I posted before on another thread, from the CCM group Big Daddy Weave:

Broken and poured out for the love of His creation
    God paid a debt that He didn't owe
Bearing my pain for not one was His equal
    And wearing my shame so that I could know Him

He gave us all He had to give
    So that we could truly live
So let's give all we have to Him
    So that we can be completely free

And as they placed the thorns on His brow
    As they drove the nails into His hands and His feet
He looked past the moment to where we are now
    And gave us the victory from what seemed His defeat

He said here's my body, it's broken in two
    Here is my blood, let it cover you
All that I have is now yours to receive
    Payment in full so that you can be free

He gave us all He had to give
    So that we can be completely
Oh without a doubt completely
    So that we can be completely...

Free
[/b]

Is that lacking in doctrine?  While I agree that there are certain songs that have the theological depth of a teaspoon,  ;D  I think that sometimes change is regarded by many as inherantly wrong.  Some can worship to "...I come to the garden alone, while the dew is still on the roses..."  Others can better worship to Step By Step or You Are My All In All.  To each his own on this one I think.  As long as the focus of the worship is the One to Whom we are giving worth, and not the sound.   :)

Newsboys~
In Christ Alone

In Christ alone my hope is found
He is my light, my strength, my song
This Cornerstone, this solid ground
Firm through the fiercest drought and storm
What heights of love, what depths of peace
When fears are stilled, when strivings cease
My Comforter, my All in All
Here in the love of Christ I stand

In Christ alone, who took on flesh
Fullness of God in helpless babe
This gift of love and righteousness
Scorned by the ones He came to save
‘Til on that cross as Jesus died
The wrath of God was satisfied
For every sin on Him was laid
Here in the death of Christ I live

There in the ground His body lay
Light of the world by darkness slain
Then bursting forth in glorious Day
Up from the grave He rose again
And as He stands in victory
Sin’s curse has lost its grip on me
For I am His and He is mine
Bought with the precious blood of Christ

No guilt of life, no fear in death
This is the power of Christ in me
From life’s first cry to final breath
Jesus commands my destiny
No power of hell, no scheme of man
Can ever pluck me from His hand
‘til He returns or calls me home
Here in the power of Christ I’ll stand

the following is an example of the type of music I write:
I chose this one because it is a praise and worship song in
the traditional Hebrew style:

  Author   Topic: adonai  (Read 19 times)  
 
ravenloche
Full Member


Posts: 113

I am a messianic christian
 
    adonai
« on: February 05, 2004, 01:01:37 AM »      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
another of my latest works, let me know what you think guys!

   

         My Adonai

   key: am           date: 9/14/03                      words and music by  Joseph E. Barnhouse Sr.



   vs 1   how can I be born again
      the pharasee did say
      but Jesus only answered
      it must be this way
      seek ye first  God's kingdom
      all other things will pass
      only what you do for God
      is ever going to last



      chorus   you are the one
      to whom my spirit  cries
      you are the one
      I'll call my Adonai
      you are the one
      I'll seek  all of my days
      you are the one
      worthy of all praise

   vs2   Yeshua ha Machiach
      adonai of all
      Jesus my Messiah
      on you I will call
      Yeshua ha Machiach
      Lord of the rebirth
      Jesus my Messiah
      come reign in this earth
 
 
 
respectfully yours in Yeshua:

ravenloche

OH, man, I want to here all of it NOT just the words.

Music, worship and praise is my passion, although at the moment Ifeel as tho I am dieing on the vine, I still have it in my heart to worship the Lord in Song. MY trouble is, I'm not the best at rythem, I play the guitar, sing, and play a little piano. My pastor appointed me worship leader and I had the worse time with others in the praise team because I learned the song diff, or I didn't play it as was written. I honestly didn't want to do it exactly as written I wanted to put my own creativity to the song, if I wanted to slow it down or speed it up, to be free to move as the Spirit led me. Yes we needed to be on the same page to begin with, to pracitce and work at sharpening our talents, so I called for practices, but some felt that was practicing the move of the spirit made it fake, I tried to explain but some just wouldn't listen, if we didn't pracitce it was terrilbe.......all I ever wanted was those with a heart to worship to do just that, to flow with me.
    Now all these years later, after I left that church, I am with a church that won't even sing. Hymnal music ONLY, any kind of praise is done in your head only.....believe me, it isn't even as good as putting up with my worship team that didn't like me as leader. (there was more to it than just not liking me but not for this post)
     Music was given to the most beautiful angel in Heaven, Lucifer, when he was booted out of heaven he took that gift with him, we have to be careful what is allowed in the church, what is allowed in our home and for our teens to listen too. Hymns, contemporary, or a mix, let God be glorified. No where does it say that we have to sing on key, but I have always felt I wanted to give God my best and if my best is half a step off, or 1/2 beat diff he still knew my heart was in the right place. But I didn't need to be leading the worship and praise team either. God will put those in postions that can handle it. I knew I was in the right place, it was just the wrong time. If someone is really singing to the Lord off key or other wise.......LET THEM SING.
musicllover

I like when keys change cause it lifts the song up.  

oh boy my computer broke down and we have a real thread started guys! guys and gals, believe me i love Jesus as much as he knows it... and try to worship him as much as possible...
but believe me the ache that i have is not with all the songs out there... i saw the names of one of the people that posted here which by the way is one of the favorites of all time worship songs for me( all in all - the story behind it is also riveting... i encourage any one of you who don't know the story behind it to read it on his website)- there are even few good ones out there... I MUST SAY THOUGH- there is either something wrong with me or it sure is something to ponder upon...
I HAVE RARELY liked key-change. No i am not a musician. I don't like key-change in Christian music because it gives me the impression that somebody is trying to invoke an emotion in me that isn't there... Oh I love hymns just as much as i love some of the good contemp music out there... (there are ones with good doctrines too)... but i just don't have the tolerance level that some of you have when it comes to key changes- whether it be during hymns or contemp worship songs...
 the other thing that i want to mention is- thanks for those of you who mentioned you were song writers thanks so much for the work you do- i just want to encourage if possible to derive songs directly from scripture... for this reason Mat redman is one of my favorites...(not all his songs ok)

Blessings,  \o/

MsGuidedAngel

Digme,
       What is the web sight, I LOVE You are my All In All, unless it was All inall the person you were writing about, but either way the Song Allinall Posted is beautiful too. OK plain and simple what is the web site address.
     Key changes.......well depends on my mood I guess. And what instrument I might be playing. Piano is a little harder (for me, but I'm not the best piano player in the world either) when it comes to key change, Guitar usually there might be a step down, or a stop up to lead you into a key change and that makes it kinda cool, and can give a refreshing change to the musician.
      Singing, can be a completely different store depends on what key, and how much of a change. Modulation or somehing like that. If you can't sing it at the moment try just letting the that time be a time of Praise for you. IN what ever form that might be, hands raised, or clapping, or simple prayer.
    I have when leading a song not even done the key changes, or sometimes the bridges,  if it doesn't affect the leadership, or the leading of the Holy Spirit, I would rather have easy time of praise that to have to struggle with a key change. But of coarse that is up to the leader and not the singers. (see there is a reason for being song leader). Bridges are hard for me, key changes are't so bad.
    I couldn't begin to tell you my favortie song, I have so much music, if anyone has a song they might need let me know. I have 3 generation of music laying in this house. My grandpa, my Dad and now myself. TO bad I can't play most of it. BUT worship begin in the heart.

Let Jesus be praised,
musicllover

http://www.dennisjernigan.com/testimon.asp

the song is "you are my all in all" written by Dennis Jerningan... I don't think most people realize what the guy is singing about... i know i sure didn't until i heard about it about 6 years ago while i was in college... and the first time i heard it i was in tears...that  is what a song is all about.. in my opinion, it epitomizes what a song does and should do because the story behind it carries exactly what a song appropriates in terms of emotions when the music is deeply felt in one's heart... and that my friends is one of the reasons why i am so so against key change... because it doesnot do any good for the congregation... yes it might do something for the musician but i am going to go on a hunch, - 90% of the time it is a distraction to the congregation... just ask around next time people.  unfortunately, i can't say that about "our God is an awesome God" or "Shout to the Lord" or recently i heard a jokester song dubbed by the name "the airplane song" written by a guy named David Thorpe... what a joke!!! you have to be kidding me sometimes that people are coming with the lyrics that they do....

all in all,
a)i wish more hymns were sung in their old melodic ways, OH I LOVE HOW AMY GRANT SINGS THE HYMNS IN HER NEW CD... that i deem a perfect example to what could happen when you take the old hymns don't change their melody or beat but just sing them with different array of instruments... you know sometimes i hear "the wonderous Cross" sung in some type of beat associated to it? What a Crock i say!

Digme,
       Thanks, I love this song so much, and it just like you say,something inside me changes, and every word I sing is true, it breaks my heart in a way that is hard to explain, but I feel so inadaquate, yet so thankful.
   I've not read the reasons behind the song, but I know what I feel when I sing it.
   Key changes, I guess must up to the individual, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. I leave them out if it doesn't work for me. There are a few songs mostly for kids that makes the song fun to sing just to get the kids pumped and into it.
     My Dad was a song writer, never had anything go very far, why,,,,, mostly because he liked to write very minor keys, which makes it nearly impossilbe for the less than avarage musician to deal with. But it was his style.

Keeping on singing,
musicllover ;D  

You are the reason
©1990 Hank & Beverly Beymer

G,                g6,           gmaj7,     g6,  
  You are the reason, my voice I raise.
Am7    Em7      C       D           G
    To   lift you up and give you praise
To bring you honor, I sing this song.
To you alone I do belong

C    Em7/Am7/sus   G        Bm7    Em                C           D
You are one,          Father, Spirit, Son, with your breath of life, you
              G       G6     G/maj7/6
made me whole,

C    Em7/Am7/sus   G        Bm7 Em             C        D  
You  are three,        Holy    Trinity, and your healing touch has made
       G
 me whole.

You are the River, sent from above,
you fill my heart, with your love.
 You are the answer, to all my pain.
Gone at the mention of your name.
 
You are one, Father, Spirit, Son. With your breath of life you saved my soul.
You are three,  Holy Trinity. With your healing touch you made me whole.

You are the Glory, from Heav'n above.
Came down to show this world your love.
Gave up  your place at the Father's right hand,
Came down to live as just a man.

You are one; Father, Spirit, Son. With your breath of life you saved my soul.
You are three, Holy Trinity,  and your healing touch has made me whole.
 
You are the reason, I want to sing. You are the answer to everything.

That is a POWERFUL testimony isn't it. Thanks for sharing this with us. I wonder what other song's back grounds are. Joni Eckerson Tada has a book out about how/ why songs were written I've always wanted it. Plus its about the beautiful hymns that I recalled from the few Sundays I acctually attended Church as a child.  When I sing, and play I try to make the song mine, my testimony so to speak. THat is why I might skip key changes or add a diff word, might change the key......its me singing to Jesus in the way that I feel he would appreciate, and that gives him the glory for any talent he has given me.
    MAN this makes me want to go practice, I HAVE a  praise report I'll throw in here, my guitar wasn't tuning right, so I took it to the music shop to have the neck adjusted (12 string), after checking it out they told me it was ruined, a fault in the way it was made at Fender, Fender at first refused to acknowledge their bad craftmanship.......but finally my music shop kept after then, and Fender decided to replace my guitar with a brand NEW ONE........JOY OF ALL JOYS, I can go get my new back baby tomorrow.......
 musicllover

Personally, I hate keychanges in the middle of a song, unless of course the song is written that way. Taking a song and adding the keychange makes me NUTS. Mostly because the key change is usually up, and I can't go any higher in a lot of songs. Aslo, from my experience, with the key change comes a tempo change and to be frank, I kind'a like to breathe every now and then between words, lol.

This is one of my favourite songs, from a probably unknown artist (Deborah Bowman) - the link opens the song

http://www.breadsite.org/music/Peaceful%20Flowing%20River.mp3 (http://www.breadsite.org/music/Peaceful%20Flowing%20River.mp3)

Gracey