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What does everyone think about the Matrix Trilogy thus far?

The first one kicks. The second one...doesn't.

Why do you say that? I liked it. The First one was better, but the second one was great as well. What problems did you find with it?

THe New Yorker magazine several weeks ago seemed to like the first one much better.

I've not seen either; the premise sounds interesting--What if what we all thought is reality turned out not to be so.

I find it very biblical--that our lives here are not "real"--at least, real in the sense that they last.

If that in fact is what it is about.  

The article said the first one has started a sort of cult or movement all its own; I believe some colleges were even offering a course in it or something.

Our soul goes on living; this isn't that reality at all.  We are a vapor, and then gone.

Yeah, read the book “Philosophy and the Matrix”. I like it, the author is a writer for “Philosophy now” one of my favorite publications. It was interesting, comparing the Matrix to Buddhism, Marxism, and other philosophies.

Sym, by the way our talking, it sounds like you haven't seen it...

The plot was weak. The fight scenes got old. There was nothing new. It just didn't "wow" me like the first one did.

A question about the movie.

WWJD?

In other words, I've heard complaints from some sectors that both the movies are far too violent. I did see the first movie. I liked the first movie. But when someone questioned the social responsibility I have as a Christian to not endorse such movies with my wallet or provide the tacit approval of mere attendace at such films, it got me thinking...

So would Jesus like it? Not trying to pick on anyone here. Just sharing some reflections I've had of late.

Eh, violence in movies doesn't bother me too much. I honestly don't see how either movie is really all that violent. The first one should have been rated PG-13.

I liked the plot, but you are right, Sapph, nothing new, it was the same old Matrix.

As for the violence, I take it you don't read the OT to much? How about your read Judges, then come back and say the Matrix was to violent! Lol, as the Money changers in the temple about violence! As JESUS himself about violence. Ask the Paul and Peter about violence. Violence is a fact of life, the Christian walk is compared to as a fight, Praise and Worship compared to a war. God is called a “Might man of War.” We are told to put in our “armor.” Again, violence is a fact of life, Christ sees that, so why can’t Christians? He even tells us what to do when faced with violence, proving he acknowledged the existence and unavoidability of it. You say “ Yes, but Jesus would not subject himself to such violence needlessly.” Well, he could have just as easily walked off the cross. An all powerful God has to power to do that he wishes. If he had to, he never would need to even be human, he wouldn’t even have to snap his fingers, and all the Heathens and Pagans and Daemons and Satan would cease to be. He doesn’t, he choose to save his, he choose to die a violent, brutal death for us, he had to live it, He has his arms ties to a splirnty tree, with his hands and feet nailed to it, and the crown of dry thorns in his head, many Christians choose to die death my the same fate, or my being ripped apart by beast, or torn up my Gladiators or have there heads lobed off for Christ, and we modern Christians fear watching a little FAKE kicking and punching?

What would Jesus do, good question. But are we to ask “What would Jesus Do?” or would a better question be “What would Jesus HAVE ME do?” I mean he did say we would do greater thing them him, did he not? So, WWJD? Would he keep himself from being entertained, would be avoid chance to whiteness to the Christians there, and even let the Lord speak to him thru the Silence in the Matrix?

The Matrix hardly has any blood it in, I think the Crucifixions of Christ had a little bit more. Sorry for the rant.

Tibby,

I hear you,

and yet... ;)

Consider the purpose of the violence. I'm no pacifist and wouldn't suggest violence is always wrong, but here we are talking about using gratuitous violence as pure entertainment. It DOES bear some resemblance to gladiator combat in that sense. Acknowledging violence as a fact of life hardly makes it more acceptable as a source of entertainment.

An analogy:

Sex is part of my life (yes I'm married) and most other people's.
I like sex!

It does not follow however that because sex is a part of my life and most everyone elses for that matter, that I can then begin to view it gratuitously as entertainment (i.e. pornography). Isn't it true that those who view sex as a gratuitous act are more likely to then use sex as a gratuitous act, or at least dismiss any sense of moral culpability in others doing the same? Why wouldn't the same hold true for violence?

In scripture there is a recognized purpose behind violence and it is NEVER as entertainment. Scripture also makes numerous references to sex, but again as something with purpose, meaning and significance.

As with so many things in life, when certain actions are taken outside the context of God they become essentially un-Godly.

lol, to qoute you “I hear you… yet…” ;D Very good point, I had not thought about it that way, but I have a few points I’d like to draw out here:

Good example, very good with the sex. But, I am a Martial Artist, I know several Marital Arts, and I LOVE sparring, I can’t get enough of it, I say over in classes, to get more time on the mat, I got to other schools just to train, I invite friends over and use the living room carpet! On top of that, I am a HUGE fan a Martial Arts flicks and Anime (major Otaku), but I don’t believe in using violence to get your way, or fighting, unless you have tried every other way to protect your self and/or the ones around you. I think I have a reconcilability as a fighter to protect those who can’t protect them selves, but I’m not the kind of guy who like fighting outside of a sports setting. I’m not going to watch the Matrix, then go spar for an hour, then go to the local bar and pick a fight. Violence IS entertainment for me, I do it, I watch it, but I would never attack some unwitting, unskilled person. Most Martial Artist Agree with me. Mainly, if a judges here you know Karate, it is prison time for you! Fighting just isn’t cool outside of the gym.

On top of that, the Violence shown in the Matrix is unrealistic violence. It is like the argument with Cartoon Violence. In a cartoon, a Mouse will pick up an anvil or battleship and throw it on a cat. And little kids see they, the are not going to be able to pick up a anvil. Likewise, in 5 years of Sports fighting, I’ve never seen someone jump 10 feet in the air, run on a wall, dodge bullets, or fly. The Violence is Loony Tones is just as hard to imitate as the matrix. lol, on an off note, who would win a fight, Neo or Bugs Bunny?

You ask why violence would be any different from sex? You learn to fight, you are born knowing how to have sex. You DO Martial Arts, you HAVE Sex. If some skinny loser who just saw the Matrix challenged me to a fight, I’d have him on his back before you could say “There is no spoon” and the fight would be over. People watch porn, they are going to go off and have sex. With all the Eastern Philosophy and skilled Matrix Arts action, people who see the matrix are going to rush to the Dojo’s to learn to fight “like Neo.” That is an advantage to it being a Martial Arts Movie. We see Neo learning all these Martial Arts, and we see him fighting in a Gi, and doing all kinds of complex kicks and throws, If anything it would have people running to there local Dojo to learn to fight properly, and stay safe when fighting. Some of these moves I haven’t learned yet, they have some complex Martial Arts mixed in with all the computer graphics and wires!

Scripture doesn’t directly talk of fighting, your right, but Paul uses it several times to give examples (I do not fight as one hitting the air, I fight the good fight, etc), so we can assume he at least enjoyed watching it.

My personal favorite, is when he was a boxer, all blood and bruised, talking to the camera after a fight, with his opponent being carried out of the ring in a bloody mess, and he is like “Yeah, I want to give all thinks to God…”  ;D It is like those Rapper at awards show “ And most of all, I’d like to thank my lord and savior, Jesus Christ, for my hit single ‘BEEP you BEEP, mother BEEP’” Some people can be so thick… lol ;)

You're right, Tibby, I've not seen the Matrix films.  

I just read the movie review in The New Yorker, there, two weeks ago.  

But I know now if a fifteen year old, Sapphire(Hey, JapEmp, seems you were nailing me for my feminine-sounding name, ahem....), anyway, I know now that if the fight scenes are old for a fifteen year old, then the fight scenes would DEFINITELY be old for me.  

It takes me ten minutes to read a review;  that saves me having to see the movie.

I did rent "Minority Report" recently--"pre-crime".  The FX "spider retina scanners"--those were cool.     "predestination".  

But on the Matrix, and the gratuitous violence, as Corpus points out, wasn't that cited as part of the "inspiration" for the Columbine shootings?  I thought that was how they dressed.

You misused stand him. He meant it seems like a copy of the first movie. Which the fight seems were to an extent. Same basic style.  And yes, Minority Report was a good movie. But I liked the Matrix better.



Oh, Keanu Reaves went all the way to Littleton just to show them how to load a gun and help them make pipe bombs? Yes, Music and Movies can change your mood and give you ideas, but can they load guns for you? Can they sell you bullets? If that is the case, lets watch nothing but Left Behind. Oh, wait ,there was violence then that to. Lets read out bibles! No, we can’t do that, I mean, we might go off a Crucify people! Hey, people have done it before, right? SO a few unstable people watch a movie and play a computer game and try to copy what they see. What is it, like 1 in a million? Should the actions of the few punish the many? Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold didn't kill those kids: no, sir, it was Lawrence Fishbourne and Keanu Reeves. They weren't motivated by rage and frustration at a school system: no, they were motivated by the Matrix! Welcome to Liberal America, where it is everyone fault but your own, right, Sym? Is that the case, Symphony?

Were you addressing "moi", Tibby??

(http://www.oz.net/~daveb/images/Gertie_e204a.jpg)

Nah, I was talking to some other Symphony  ;) I luv you ;D

As a side note, SYMPHONY, this name is for anyone who enjoyed Final Fantasy VII. Symphony? What kind of a name for a guy is THAT?

For the people who cannot decipher between sarcasm and seriousness, that was all sarcasm.

(http://www.beautifulclipart.com/clipart/angels/anangel.gif)

hmm...I was reading over the posts and someone said something along the lines of "Violence doens't affect me..."

That's just the problem. These days violence DOESN'T affect people. That is one way our society is declining. People have starting accepting violence as an okay thing.

Some violence, yes. But as much as I've heard is in the Matrix, someone else who posted said it right: WWJD? or rather WWjS (what would Jesus say?).

God Bless!

I said violence in MOVIES doesn't affect me. I don't think that unjustified violence in society is a good thing by any means.

WWJD is an overused and misused term that we shouldn't ask ourselves all the time. How do you know with any certainty what Jesus would do in today's society and culture? It says in the Bible (somewhere) that only the things that come out of a man, rather than those that enter him, can make him unclean.

why is violence is movies okay but it isn't in real life? yes, in movies nobody is ACTUALLY getting shot or killed etcc.... but it is still the same message.

EVERYTHING affects you, Saphhire.  You're just not always aware of it.  There are layers of consciousness, other than just the top one you're using right now.   I think there is such a thing as "gratuitous" violence.  And what purpose does it serve.  

Nope, there's something  illicit about all of this in entertainment.  We frequently justify a particularly violent beginning to a movie, for instance, in order to see the unfolding of the intrigue and suspense later on;  my instincts tell me even there, where the only violence is at the very beginning, perhaps, that something gratuitous or cynical is nevetheless taking place--and at my expense too, in terms of time wasted.

I agree with Sapphire(sigh, I can't believe I'm saying this) that the WWJD thing is hackneyed and over done.

Still, if girls want to wear it as a bracelet or emblem, etc., to remind them of that question, um, it IS a legitimate question.

What WOULD Jesus Do?  I don't see any thing wrong with the question.  And, there are going to be plenty of chances to be persecuted for the Name of Jesus, here, going forward.  So we might as well get use to it now.

Symph, you said everything I was trying to say. And WWJD is overdone as the bracelet or emblem, anymore it means nothing as far as your faith goes. But, like you said, it is a legit question we should all think about.  :D

...In another thread, seeing as THIS one is SUPPOSED to be about the quality of The Matrix trilogy.

Matrix Reloaded has a decent story, nice visual effects, and a few great fight scenes.  The best portion of the movie is definitely the freeway fight scene, and the explanation for ghosts and UFO's is smart.  The twins are a nice touch.  However, the story is not nearly the level of quality as that of the first.  The philosophy drones on in anime fashion and the characters do not really develop IMO.  Some of the story elements are cheesey, such as the kiss scene, and Zion seemed to be little more than a big rave at the center of the Earth.  The sex scene was a big waste of time.


That question is overdone and a complete waste of time.  The simple answer is we just don't know.  As much as some would like to think He would spend 24-7 at his local church and give all his money to charities, given his choice of actions I think He would spend time with people other than Christians and would not be afraid of every piece of pop culture that came along.

The Bible is full of violence, and at times is a preferred method by God for dealing with humans.  Violence in the Bible is justified by the context of the story, and the same can be said for violence in movies.  If you're watching a movie about WWII it is unreasonable to want it to not have violence.  It is best, IMO, to question the context in which violence is framed, and not worry so much about violence itself.  While I do believe there is such a thing as gratuitous violence, the inappropriate context will probably be apparent.


The Matrix was not the inspiration for the Columbine shootings.  The kids did dress in similar clothing, but their plan had been in development before the Matrix was released.  The fact that they were the bottom of the social food chain was probabley a much greater factor for their actions than any game or movie.

The sex scene was a big waste of time.

But since sex seems to be the big rage in Hollywood nowadays, they just HAD to put it in, you see.

All of Zion was a big waste of time. All we need is to see the councilmen who believes Morphous, the commander who doesn’t, and see the seen with the spoon, and that is it. The Dance was CLEARLY nothing more then a cheap attempt to capitalize in the emotions of the Mosh pit and Rave crowd. The dance it self didn’t make any since

“YES, we are the last remaining humans on earth and giant squid-like robots are coming to kill us, lets PPAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRR-TTTYYYYYYYY”


 

Why? They took the sex seen out of the first one and it did fine!

I know. I was being SARCASTIC.

Maybe the reason we are not able to decipher between sarcasm and seriousness, has to do with the fact you have yet to learn how to WRITE sarcasm! We are reading what you are saying, we don’t hear the inflexions in your voice, we don’t see your face expression, we can’t tell what your tone is. If you are going to be “SARCASTIC” then use a smiley! The use of sarcasm relies almost ENTIRELY on hearing and seeing, all we can do is read. If you are going to use sarcasm, please use a smiley, otherwise we will never know.

No. I will NOT use a Smiley. Never ever.

lol ;D

Yes, that's true, JapEmp never use smiley's.  

Check this out, JapEmp, "Then Moses and Aaron, Nadab, and Alihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel went up, and they saw the God of Israel; and there was under his feet as it were a pavement of sapphire stone, like the very heaven for clearness."  Exodus 25:9-10  thought you might like that.

Gangrene, "bottom of the social food chain".  Hehe, pretty funny gangrene.  BTW, is your user name from II Timothy 2:17:  "...and their talk will eat its way like gangrene..."??


WAAAAA.  My user name not in the bible.  Neither is Tibby's.  Though there IS a "Tob", hehe, in Judges 11:3:  "...the land of Tob..."

Thanks, MusicGirl.  Your name in bible by implication, I guess..

Haha, that is cool, Symphony.

Funny?  Eh, what do you mean?  High School can be a pretty mean place.


Honestly my reasons are not quite so deep.  Thanks for the verse, though.  I think I'll adopt it.

Yes, gangrene, you're right--it's not very funny.  The persecution in HS can be murder.  Oops.  

Symphony, you jerk! lol, keep the puns to your self!

HS isn't that bad, I just left it. The only people who are picked on are the people who bring in on them selves. The self proclaimed "Rebels" and the "goths" and "punk rockers"! Oh please, those people are picked on all the time because they act like the biggest losers. They bring in on them selves, following the pathetic trends, doing what Rage against the Machine and Metallica tells them, all the while claiming that they are “individuals’ Then there are the people who don’t bother to shower for a week at a time, and the kids who where black trench coats in the summer… kids in high school have a choice wither or not to be picked on. I feel no pity for them.

That's crap.  Do you honestly believe that those who do not follow that which is popular are asking to be maligned for it?

A place where you are forced to go, do nothing useful while you are there, and learn material that is largely irrelevant; High school is highly socially stratified by its very nature.  Unless someone wants to spend the majority of their time and energy pursuing popularity they will more often than not find themselves on the lower end of the social pecking order.  If you don't believe me about the existence of said pecking order, contact your local sociologist or read up on it.  It is there.  Perhaps you were at the top of the heap and never bothered to look down on those below you.  If that's so, I suggest you open your eyes.


That is completely incorrect.  Everyone does not have a choice of whether they are picked on or not, just as those who were shot at Columbine did not have the choice of whether they were shot or not.  The whole concept behind the idea of shooting at schools is to take power away from those who use it against you, and use what power you have to bring revenge.

There are only two major commandments that we have to follow, and that sum up the whole of the Law of Moses.  Our duties as Christians do not revolve around churches, missions, bake sales, memorizing every little verse, putting a fish on our car, or any other such nonsense pushed by popular Christian culture in this nation.  What we are to do is to love our neighbor as ourselves, and part of that is to not judge them by the standards of this world.  Now your little statement gives the impression that you feel no pity for those who do not throw themselves into the pursuit of popularity.  Is that your idea of how to love our neighbors as ourselves?

Hmmmm....

Hey, I like Rage Against the Machine and Metallica.

Gangrene- You COMPLETELY missed my point. They DO follow what is popular. Goth is “in” now, Punk is “in.” It has nothing to do with being a prep, it has to do with being normal. Madonna (boo) is pretty popular, but she isn’t “normal.” Same with Avrel Lavean(sp? and boo), the little wanta-be Punk is so popular, everyone calls her a punk, and she doesn’t even play punk rock! Anyways, It has nothing to do with not being your self; be your self, but don’t me geek in the process! You can be yourself without 00 gauge ear rings and orange hair. Being yourself, has to do with who you are inside, not how much like the cast of "SLC Punk" you look like!

Loving them and pitying them are to very different things. I’ll help if I see some bully picking on a kid, I will show him the love of Jesus, I’ll hang out with him, but he brought the bullying on himself, and thou I love the guy, I don‘t feel sorry for him! You act like a chump, you get picked on like a chump, it is simple cause and effect. Now, granted, many kids don’t realize this until it is to late, and that is truly sad, but that is life. You’re only there for about 4 years, let the bullying make you stronger inside, give you stronger resolve, because the world isn’t going to pick you up and wipe the tears out of your eyes.

Sapph- I would have never guessed… ;D

What we are to do is to love our neighbor as ourselves, and part of that is to not judge them by the standards of this world.

You've really had some good things to say, Gangrene, but I'll take just that one statement.  To not judge them by the standards of this world.

I think Jesus puts it, "Do not judge by appearances; but judge with righteous judgement."

Of course, as with your statement, it is certainly not totally clear what that "righteous judgement" may be, but we can pretty easily figure out whether we're judging by "appearances" or, as you say, by the "standards of this world".

Thanks...

I never said to judge someone by how they dress. I believe the verse you are attempting to quote is in John. But let me point out a verse that is similar, by more popular to quote, in first Samuel. God was tell him not to look at their bodies to decide who is the king. He said “Man looks at the outward appearance, the lord looks at the heart.” I have said nothing contradictory to this. I said just what the verse says, the people in high school look at your outward appearance. I can’t change that. But I don’t deny that fact that this a reality. I wish no one to judge by there eyes, by, I can only control my self. These people KNOW that they will be judged by there clothing and style. They KNOW that, even though it is wrong to judge a “book by its cover,” it happens, and it happens in high school. This is why I do not pity them. I love them, and I treat them with what respect I can, but pity never did anyone any favors in the end.