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How do we know if our interpretations are correct or incorrect? The way I can tell if an interpretation is correct or incorrect is that a correct interpretation comes from the fruits of the spirit whereas an incorrect interpretation comes from sin. ANY interpretation that glorifies men comes from the sin of pride whereas any interpretation that glorifies God comes from humility and reverance. Believing that men are responsible for their salvation rather than God is one interpretation that glorifies men. Jesus said; "I can do nothing without my Father.' That is complete and TOTAL humility. Thinking that we are more powerful than God is another interpretation that comes from pride. "God hardens whom He wants to harden and has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy." As Paul says, "it is His sovereign choice." God is the one with the power. Is He who makes the decisions of the universe, not us. That's why Jesus said; "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him." If God is not drawing someone then wild horses cannot make him believe. God is the one with the power, not us.

I can tell you from my experience of witnessing on atheist forums, Neo, the people who don't have a heart for God, do not WANT heaven! It is hard for me to understand why, but most atheist i know have said that they hate God and would rather die than believe Him! The ones, on the other hand, who want God will find Him becuase Jesus promises tht He who seeks will find. So God's plan is fair and just because everyone is getting what he wants.

There is more evidence that Jesus lived and died for our sins than evidence that Atilla the hun lived. But atheists do not want to believe that and they make that very clear to me.

 You have to wonder about a person who doesn't believe in God, and yet spends so much time on a Christian web site, so he/she can sit in the bushes and throw stones...
Must be lonely...very,very lonely.

Bronzesnake.

I agree, Bronzesnake...Or desperately seeking even though he won't admit it. One or the other.

That is a belief that is derived from Calvinism.
Not all Christians believe that way.
Stop being so stereotypical and maybe you'll start getting some answers and a better understanding of Christianity.
To continue the way you have makes me wonder if you really want answers or if you just want to be a troll.

True seekers ask questions. They don't come here to mock God. Those mockers are the ones who are extremely angry at God. They must have very unhappy lives or they would have NO  reason to be angry at God.

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting

Yes and no.  Yes, God intentionally saves some.  No, God doesn't damn anyone intentionally to hellfire.  We have eternal life by God's grace and eternal damnation by our own choice.

I know that many people hold to the Calvanistic teachings, and many vehemently deny them.  I prefer to see things the way God expresses them in His word.  In the bible, He says He chose me before the foundation of the world, based upon His eternal plan for me rather than my obedience to His call.  But it never says that He chose any to go to Hell.  That is man's logic.  If He chose some to eternal life, then He must have chosen some to eternal damnation...Oddly enough, it doesn't match Gods understanding, and to be frank, to assume that we can understand everything God does and thinks is arrogant.  He even tells us in His words that our thoughts aren't His thoughts.

We cannot operate/build doctrines around what we feel is implied.  We can build them around what He does say...


...and...


...and...


God is not willing that any die, He calls all to repentance, and He sent His Son Jesus to die for the sins of whoever believes in Him.

 :)

True belivers come here to learn more then they know. Knowledge is fleeting, True knowledge is from the Lord, not mankind.
Praise God in the highest, for the Lord is the only one worthy to judge everyone.

1. That is not a Christian attidute, a Christian as most of us are here believe in the Lord. We believe because we can feel his presents.
2. Christians do well to forgive for their statements, for their own salvation.
3. You need to learn from the Bible Neo, The Lord loves everyone and doesn't want them to die without is salvation.
John 3:16-18
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.  For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.  Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

You will someday. I just hope it won't be too late.


Calvinists, like the rest of us, are just humans in need of a Saviour.


It is His desire that none will perish.
However, He never forces Himself on us.
He is pure and perfect love. If He forced us to accept Him, then that would not be pure or perfect love.
Therefore, He gives us free will. We are free to accept or reject Him.
If we accept Him, then we will spend eternity with Him.
If we reject Him, then we will go to hell.

God will not force you to make a decision.
He does not force anyone into Heaven.
He does not force anyone into hell.
We are to be held accountable for our actions. If a person rejects Christ, he has only himself to blame for landing in hell.

Who said I used human reasoning?
Ask my husband- I'm one of the most unreasonable women you could ever meet.  ;)

What I used is what I've learned in Scripture.

well whether you know it or not your argument was a deductive reasoning statement.

nimble- have you ever actually read the Bible?

not in its entirety. My grandma used to read me the bible when I was about 10-14. I think we got past genesis and numbers and a few others. I dont remember much.

How do you know that God is nonexistant when you know so little about His Book?

I try to carry on the rest of this conversation another time.
It's late and I have to go to work tomorrow.

Good night.

I should think that might depend on how you define life, and a dictionery would not suffice for the "life" we are looking towards as christians.

The "human" life we live is fleeting and momentary; we are dying every day.

The life we live in christ will bring us to life eternal.

Yah, Yah,....I know - prove it. I have my proof. I've already found it, and you would never understand nor believe it, til you can find it for yourself.

The proof you ask for doesn't come from humanity, or human reasoning.

Yep, I know....no proof at all.

Joh 20:29  Jesus said to him, Thomas, because you have seen Me you have believed. Blessed are they who have not seen and have believed.



Gracey

1Pe 4:14  If you are reviled for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of God and of glory rests on you. Truly according to them, He is blasphemed, but according to you He is glorified.

unplugged.....

Plugged in, I guess....God is my power supply.

inert.....(according to the dictionery..)

Having only a limited ability to react chemically; not active
Unable to move or resist motion
Slow and apathetic

No, not "inert". I have a body composed of chemicals which react, whether I want them to or not ( :P); I am active in many ways; I am able (Jud 1:24  Now to Him being able to keep you without stumbling, and to set you before His glory without blemish, with unspeakable joy; ); uh, well, I may be a little slow some days, but not generally apathetic  :-\

hopelessly dependent on the system....

Yes, I am hopelessly dependent on God, and it's glorious.

fight to protect it....

God hardly needs my protection. He is quite able.

Gracey

Psa 18:30  As for God, His way is perfect; the Word of Jehovah is tried; He is a shield to all those who trust in Him.

When a non-Christian comes onto a Christian site and wants to argue what we believe, then that person should know what we believe.

Ahhh, no. There is no reason to fight; to what end would I do so? If there is no faith; no trust; no belief in you (or anyone - not trying to get personal) there is nothing but the holy spirit that would convince such a one.

Fighting doesn't solve any issues, it only creates more. Debate, however, is something else. It isn't supposed to be based on personality, but it does seem to get that way sometimes.


Peace
Gracey

Neo, how do you exist? How can you prove you are alive?
How do you know if your heart is harden?

As it is written, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Eph 2:8-10.

You see it says, "That we should walk in them."

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Eph 2:4

See Neo he loves us, not only me but, you as well.

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) Eph 2:5

Please look in your Bible. Parts of the Bible is not, pre-trib, the information is for the Tribulation. Which is where, you are getting your information. Learning from the Bible is an experence, that you learn from the Lord. The Lord opens your eyes, when you are saved. Mankind can not know the will of God, unless that person has been saved, through the Grace of God.
Reading the Bible now Neo you see what you want to see. Reading the Bible after Gods Grace (saved), you can read it differently.
I am not attacking you at all Neo, I am informing you of how non-believers, vs, believers view the Bible. Before I was saved it had read the Bible, and it didn't make that much sense. Now that I have been saved, the Bible makes a whole-lotta sense.

Go in peace with God
DW

Or children of the devil hopless and dead.

"if belief only comes through the holy spirit, and God only has mercy on those he specifically chooses"

Faith comes form hearing and hearing by the word of God.
The word of God calls one to faith.

 Acts 2:21.  And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. "Whosoever" seems to open it up a bit wider than specifically chosen.

Ollie

I'm so glad to see I'm not the only one who makes those type of typos.

ebia- you are free to take friendly jabs anytime I make a grammatical error. I promise to come back with a smile.

the definition of infinite is not TRULY known to man, as it is not a concept related to reality. It is an abstraction that is used in imagination for the furthering of some mathematic principles. Everything in reality is finite in nature. And while there are possibilities for infinite things such as matter can exist "forever" but we do not know yet. For, none of us can exist long enough to observe the infinite nature of things. So infinite, is only the negation of what men do know which is the term finite.

if you read my post, you would know that you only strengthened my point. Math uses it for arguments sake. Infinite lines do not exist. Infinite is not a reality based concept. Can you point out anything REAL that is infinite? And if you claim it is infinite, how can you prove it? It is merely an arbitrary axiom accepted to further a mathematic principle. I mentioned nothing about throwing away math, and I did not attack theology in my post. I think you are being too defensive. I am through trying to argue the "non-existence" of god. I was just helping with the definition conflict you and Neo were having.

That may be somewhat positive, but there is still no evidence that you and the rest of the trolls on the forum right now read and understood the forum rules. You really shouldn't speak of math and science if you can't comprehend the meaning of the forum rules.

Moderator

Neo & Nimble,

Both of you have already received warnings about obeying the forum rules. I have started deleting and/or modifying your posts, so that means I am close to voting for you to be banned.

You will NOT characterize, define, or limit Almighty God here. Your attempts to do so appear to be intentional mockery of Almighty God, and that will not be tolerated here. Your total ignorance and lack of respect to the Almighty is well noted.

This warning is public. One more violation of the forum rules and both of you will be involved in a magic act - your disappearance.

Moderator

AAAMember, we have heard the kinds of things you believe many, many times. We have also heard dirty jokes many, many, times. We're not afraid of either. It's simply more pleasant to be around people who are not filled with mockery and hatred.

It's good to have ya back Mr. Beapster!




**********************************
 Skunks dont scare me i just dont like their stink.
 

Is some one afraid of aaaa ? Would that be upper or lower case?

Amen!!!!! ;D

So you are a cry baby? As for age It may suprise you that, I maybe older then you. Nicknames are used in everyday occurance, you may not notice it though with your whining. Go ahead and report me if you wish, to me it makes no difference. That just shows your inmaturity.

Ah, but with Christ we can reach the lost and dying world.

AAAAmember is not a nickname?

Or maybe you remember this, Want to talk about insulting? Talk to the wall you may get better answers. So stop your whinning about bep. You are worst then the trolls, and you need to learn humilty before the Lord teaches you the hard way.

Edited to add;
So what have I learned about you? You enjoy insulting your elders. That shows that you don't respect your elders.
Romans 13:1, 3-5
13:1 "Let every person be submissive to the governing authorities
Here that is bep, who is the mod here.
13:3 Consequently the one who resists authority, opposes the institution of God, and those who do so will receive judgment on themselves.
Which you have been doing 4a.
13:4 For it is God's servant to do you good, but if you do evil, then fear, for it does not bear the sword in vain. For it is God's servant, an avenger to bring wrath on the one who practices evil.
To do good means you listen to your elders, with out attacking them. If you have a problem with them PM that person. take care of it personally, in private, not in the open forum.
13:5 Wherefore it is necessary to submit, not only because of wrath, but also because of conscience.
So as you can see by your arrogance, you have been sinning, maybe unknowing. That I don't know as I am not the Lord.

Leviticus 19:32 19:32 Respect your elders.

Read the whole post nimble. Not just what you want.
Romans 13:1, 3-5
13:1 "Let every person be submissive to the governing authorities.
Thats not me or is it you, nimble.
Yes I do the Lords bidding, if you have a problem with that, oh well, I feel sorry for you nimble.
No, that is not a threat from me at all. The only reason I said that is because,  4A is suppose to be a Christian and know better then that, nimble. Then again maybe 4A is n't a Christian and is playing games that will get them banned, who knows, "The Lord knows." ;D

If it were just handle calling, Allinall, I would agree with you. But they have insulted God and Christians in almost every post. There is no good faith in their posts, only a desire to mock God and people. There are enough people like that in the world. we don't need them on a Christian forum. we can forgive them but that doesn't mean we should have to be around them. I can forgive saddam Hussein but it would be foolish of me to seek his company.

I have never in my life heard of a parent naming their child AAAAMember.  This is just a wild guess BUT could it be a nick name? So  guys, and  this by 4A's own post, aaaamember must be under third grade so childishness is to be expected.

Who is "4a"? What is "4a"? Where is "4a"? Is "4a' a tattle tail? No "4a" must be a grown up very mature. Jr. High school must be out for the summer  :P  


This is  a great thread! i love the silliness. Nice change from deep thought.

Please NO NO Is the bepster not real?  :'(

Maybe 4a nick should be "4F" ;D

I guess you never learned lessons in respect 4a. When you act brattish that how you are treated.
I noticed you didn't have anything to say about my posts. Could it be that you are a deceiving person?
Prov 12:19-20 Truthful lips will be established forever, But a lying tongue is only for a moment. Deceit is in the heart of those who devise evil, But counselors of peace have joy.
Prov 6:12-15 A worthless person, a wicked man, Is the one who walks with a false mouth, Who winks with his eyes, who signals with his feet, Who points with his fingers; Who with perversity in his heart devises evil continually, Who spreads strife. Therefore his calamity will come suddenly; Instantly he will be broken, and there will be no healing.
As you can see we Christians have joy, and happiness but wheres yours?

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

I doubt the troll pack with be with us long, and that includes 4a.

I have reported myself to ADMIN for calling "4a" 4a, a horrible transgression.   ;D   ;D   ;D


This childish troll attack from a bunch of militant atheists is so sad that it's almost funny. After all, most of them would have to be our intellectual superiors, and they are here to rescue us from Jesus. WOW!, I bet most of them are in college and in their late teens. I'm impressed and taking notes.   ;D   ;D

Please have patience. We will either trim their little horns or make them disappear.

Love In Christ,
Tom