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"People v. Ruggles

8 Johns. R. 290 N.Y. 1811
Kent, Ch. J. delivered the opinion of the Court. The offence charged is, that the defendant below did "wickedly, maliciously, and blasphemously utter, in the presence and hearing of divers good and christian people, these false, feigned, scandalous, malicious, wicked and blasphemous words, to wit, "Jesus Christ was a bastard, and his mother must be a whore;" and the single question is, whether this be a public offence by the law of the land. After conviction, we must intend that these words were uttered in a wanton manner, and, as they evidently import, with a wicked and malicious disposition, and not in a serious discussion upon any controverted point in religion. The language was blasphemous not only in a popular, but in a legal sense; for blasphemy, according to the most precise definitions, consists in maliciously reviling God, or religion, and this was reviling christianity through its author. (Emlyn's Preface to the State Trials, p. 8. See, also, Whitlock's Speech, State Trials, vol. 2, 273.) The jury have passed upon the intent or quo animo, and if those words spoken, in any case, will amount to a misdemeanor, the indictment is good.

Such words, uttered with such a disposition, were an offence at common law. In Taylor's case, (1 Vent. 293. 3 Keb. 607. Tremaine's Pleas of the Crown, 226. S. C.) the defendant was convicted upon information of speaking similar words, and the court of K. B. said, that christianity was parcel of the law, and to cast contumelious reproaches upon it, tended to weaken the foundation of moral obligation, and the efficacy of oaths. And in the case of Rex v. Woolston, (Str. 834. Fitzg. 64.) on a like conviction, the court said they would not suffer it to be debated whether defaming christianity in general was not an offence at common law, for that whatever strikes at the root of christianity, tends manifestly to the dissolution of civil government. But the court were careful to say, that they did not intend to include disputes between learned men upon particular controverted points. The same doctrine was laid down in the late case of The King v. Williams, for the publication of Paine's "Age of Reason," which was tried before Lord Kenyon, in July, 1797. The authorities show that blasphemy against God, and contumelious reproaches and profane ridicule of Christ or the Holy Scriptures, (which are equally treated as blasphemy,) are offences punishable at common law, whether uttered by words or writings. (Taylor's case, 1 Vent. 293. 4 Blacks. Com. 59. 1 Hawk. b. 1. c. 5. 1 East's P. C. 3. Tremaine's Entries, 225. Rex v. Doyley.) The consequences may be less extensively pernicious in the one case than in the other, but in both instances, the reviling is still an offence, because it tends to corrupt the morals of the people, and to destroy good order. Such offences have always been considered independent of any religious establishment or the rights of the church. They are treated as affecting the essential interests of civil society.


The Founders' Constitution
Volume 5, Amendment I (Religion), Document 62
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendI_religions62.html (http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendI_religions62.html)
The University of Chicago Press

sincereheart
Interesting history lesson - thanks.  
How do you think those kinds of ‘common law’ actually affected those under the rules?  The text indicates “blasphemous words…tended to weaken the foundation of moral obligation”.  Was that true then, and is it true today?  I tend to believe so, but what can be done and still be considerate of free speech?  (I have my ideas about that, but I’ll keep them to myself for now.)  
Who, at that time, defined blaspheme?  (I’m guessing it was the Church of England?)  Do you think the law was an infringement of free speech?  At the time, they probably likened it to “yelling fire in a crowded building”.
Who in our time would define blaspheme?  Muslims certainly take advantage of their narrow religious laws to kill (murder, in my opinion) whomever they deem unfavorable in their god’s eye.
Can we ever hope to return to laws of decency in light of new laws lauding sodomy as “good and natural”?
We are so far from those days – can the world hold out much longer?  Considering our current rate of decay, I really doubt it.

Thanks for making me think.
Yours in Christ,
JN

Oklahoma Howdy to Sincereheart,

In America, you will easily find millions of events that clearly show what America was and what it has now become. I can easily cite many examples in law enforcement, especially since it changes by almost the minute.

In Oklahoma, adultery is still on the books as a felony, but that statute has not been enforced in Oklahoma since the 60s. Certain sexual acts are listed on the books as unnatural acts and acts against nature. These acts are identical to those listed in the Holy Bible, and they are a felony. Most of them have not been enforced, except for public offenses, since the 80s. In 1976, profanity in public was a common and regularly enforced ordinance that usually resulted in a hefty fine and a few days in jail. In the 80s, the state and local ordinances were changed and limited to in the presence of women. In the late 80s, the state and local ordinances were changed and limited to in the presence of children. Today, that is a difficult offense to get filed unless it results in a fight.

What you are actually seeing used to be a slow and gradual erosion of all that was decent, moral, and Biblical in America, starting in the late 40s and early 50s. The erosion gathered speed in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. The erosion started to become a mudslide in the 90s, and it has become a flood since the year 2000. At the current rate of erosion, America will be a cesspool of filth and evil by the year 2010.

Christians still have a few champions trying to slow the flood, but they are being run over, made fun of, and usually are cast aside. It appears to me that Christians will be persecuted more and more with every passing day. We are supposed to shut up, especially in public, and retreat to our homes and churches. However, our homes and churches are also being assaulted by every imaginable evil. Some of the evil is easy to recognize, and some of the evil is veiled in deceit with very clever tricks of the devil. The tolerance of Christians to evil has risen during the same time frame to the extent that the Christians of the 50s and 60s would not recognize us. We are bombarded 24 hours a day from TV, news, and other media that has slowly desensitized our strong and loud objections into quiet and timid whimpering.

In short, America has turned its back on Almighty God and is becoming a nation of evil.

Love In Christ,
Tom

It has been making me think, too. I can't answer all the questions you asked, which I'm guessing was more a matter of you thinking 'aloud' anyway.  ;)
But later it does say:

I guess my biggest question is; Where and when did we let the Christian foundation go?  ??? We had a missionary to the Phillippines speak recently and he said that America is now the 3rd largest mission field.  :'(

Sadly, so many try to say our nation was not built on a Christian foundation. But a simple read through the original charters proves otherwise. But the more I find information (like the court case above), the more I SEE just how much of a Christian foundation we had. "Had" (past tense) being the operative word.  :-\

I have always wondered why we send people out of America to preach and teach instead of combing the fields for harvest in our own backyard. Perhaps that is what has happened? We have concentrated on other's backyards instead of cleaning our own. The neglect is showing and the weeds are growing.

Ollie

Just a few thoughts. From a teenage point of view i think that the media has a great deal to do with it, but the person behind it is satan. I think this interview with Anne Graham (Billy Graham's Daughter) would go right well for this thread. So here it is:

In light of the many perversions and jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke, it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this happen?" (regarding the attacks on Sept. 11).

Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"

In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.

Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school ... the Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

Then someone said teachers and principals better not discipline our children when they misbehave. The school administrators said no faculty member in this school better touch a student when they misbehave because we don't want any bad publicity, and we surely don't want to be sued (there's a big difference between disciplining, touching, beating, smacking, humiliating, kicking, etc.). And we said OK.

Then someone said, let's let our daughters have abortions if they want, and they won't even have to tell their parents. And we said OK.

Then some wise school board member said, since boys will be boys and they're going to do it anyway, let's give our sons all the condoms they want so they can have all the fun they desire, and we won't have to tell their parents they got them at school. And we said OK.

Then some of our top elected officials said it doesn't matter what we do in private as long as we do our jobs. Agreeing with them, we said it doesn't matter to me what anyone, including the President, does in private as long as I have a job and the economy is good.

Then someone said let's print magazines with pictures of nude women and call it wholesome, down-to-earth appreciation for the beauty of the female body. And we said OK. And then someone else took that appreciation a step further and published pictures of nude children and then further again by making them available on the Internet. And we said OK, they're entitled to free speech.

Then the entertainment industry said, let's make TV shows and movies that promote profanity, violence, and illicit sex. Let's record music that encourages rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes. And we said it's just entertainment, it has no adverse effect, nobody takes it seriously anyway, so go right ahead.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.
Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.
Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.
Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.
Are you laughing?

I think that best sums up what the deal is. These are the signs of the times and America claims to be a nation under GOD but our actions speak louder than our words. I think ollie hit a good point when he wrote about sending people out instead of sending them into our own back yard, The weeds are growing and it's gonna be a bad day in heaven when Christ seperates the wheat from the tares. I honestly believe that America started heading down hill when prayer was taken out of schools and God was thrown by the wayside. As said above, Being the gentleman He is, He's sort of stepped back, and sadly so i believe that's happened. Each generation gets worser and worser as satan has gained his foothold. I see many of my friends who go get drunk every weekend, come to school high, each class i have at least 1 pregnant person next to me, then other days we have those who come in high as a jaybird. Now if that doesn't get our elder generation's attention i don't know what does, but many christians today have turned a blind eye to what's going on. I see alot of talk, but very little action to correct this problem. Just a few thoughts and my opinion on the situation. God Bless and may He guide you in your walk.

In His Service,
Joshua

Sincereheart,

Thanks for a very interesting topic, one that should unite all of us in thinking about what we can and should do in service for our Lord and Saviour.

Ollie,

You are completely correct about America needing missionaries. America needs a massive and long lasting revival from coast to coast. As a nation and as individuals, we need to rededicate ourselves to Jesus and pray for forgiveness.

Joshua,

I'm pretty close to that elder person you talked about. The situation has had my attention for almost my entire life. I considered police work to be my ministry and what God called me to do.  I am very encouraged when I hear young people like you talk about what they want to do for the Lord. I also enjoyed the article you shared with us. From your perspective, you may believe that the Christians in my generation failed, and I would understand that thought completely. If this situation was compared to a football game, I would tell you that I'm disabled and someone else will have to carry the ball and do the rough work. I can still talk, write, vote, sign petitions, and encourage those who will be carrying the ball. I like the idea of someone young, strong, and bright like you to carry the ball.

Love In Christ,
Tom

SH,

What happened  in a few too short words ...

The church sat back waiting for rapture and did NOTHING. We did not occupy.

 ;D I think if we as Christians UNITED all together stopped watching TV because it's so filled with garbage.

And then, in our moment of weakness when we do watch tv, TAKE CAREFUL NOTE NOT to buy any products we see advertised!!!   Especially if it was advertised during the hour before or the hour after ANYTHING that might mislead anyone to thinking bad things are good and good things are bad.

AND if we actually took down the names and addresses of the advertisers that are advertising the products we would like to buy, but they pay for advertising  while garbage is being aired, basically that product is paying for garbage to be aired.

If we all did these things, then we could make a difference.

THEN if we see a good show that is totally uplifting and giving up hope and faith and love, THEN we buy whatever product is being advertised whether we want it or not.   ;D

It's called activism.

Agreeed wholeheartedly, but here's the thing i see some who get complacent in their day to day walks, that activism has no effect on them, and tom, i'd gladly carry the ball fer ya bro, that's what we're called to do, "Bear one another's burdens" in other words anything i can do to be of help i will...i got chores to finish ups, but i'm glad to see where this thread is going and i hope it continues to get attention. God Bless

In His Serivice

Many of the commercials are unGodly in themselves along with the programs they sponser. They promote greed, selfishness, selfcenteredness, sexual promiscuity, etc., etc..

Ollie

Such is life on Lucifer's world.  :-\  At least the Lord gives us "armor" against it.  

I worry so much for the kids.  

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

Tornadoes, straight winds, severe thunderstorms, hail, and flash floods have been working pretty hard to tear up Oklahoma for about the last 10 days.  As a result, I've been watching weather warnings and watches on our local ABC Affiliate. I'm shocked - there is almost nothing but filth even during early prime-time when many children are still up. I'm an adult, but I don't wish to watch that garbage.

I learned a secret a couple of years ago. I got a Direct TV Satellite Channel Package, and a lot of the basic channels are completely clean. We can most definitely vote with what we buy, what we watch, and what we boycott. My wife and I belong to several organizations who use mass email to complain to advertisers about the shows they sponsor, and it works. If the advertisers don't cooperate, we quit buying their products. Several of the organizations have memberships in the millions, so they do listen to us.

Satellite is cheaper and much cleaner than cable. There's also a massive Christian network headed West from the East Coast. It is getting rave reviews and should eventually give Christians all over the country a chance to sign up and completely turn off the big boys with all of the money and dirt.

Love In Christ,
Tom  

This is an interesting topic. I was just at another "Christian" website where I asserted that defaming Christ is slander. Slander is simply  a malicious intent to defame someone's character with no PROOF that the person is lying, only the desire to defmae him. It is very definitely slander to defame Christ's name, but since the Constitution subsucribes to religious freedom, I'm sure that will supercede any legal justification to prove slander in the case of Christ. One atheist actually threatened to take me to court, which I wouldn't be averse to, except that pointed out that is he wanted to spend his time and money to keep himself and others from eternal life then I had no interest in even engaging him in conversation. We simply have to expect persecution and accept that the laws of men don't take away the laws of God.

To seize possession of and maintain control over by or as if by conquest.





Luk 19:12,13  He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.  And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

 ;D  Can we advertise for them here?  Just joking around.

What I would like to see are the genius Christians of the world, the accountants, the business people, the computer programmers the television experts ALL decide to give up all that they have to follow the Lord.  They could all agree to work at some wage that would give the organization such the advantage that we could have the media industry ALL OF IT.    But of course, the Christians of our country seem to have bought into the idea that if you have lots of money, God must be blessing you.  And if you have lots of stuff, you must be doing the will of the Lord.  As a nation we've all bought into this idea that says "wealth = God's blessing"   So, then no body gives up all that they have to follow the Lord, and actually it's people follow the Lord to get more stuff.  So, we're all trying to get more stuff so we can't get united. ;D  It's because we've been watching too much tv where TV worships the almighty dollar and holds in high esteem that folks that managed to hog up most of it for themselves.  Those are the folks we admire in our country.  We look down on folks that give up what they have to follow the Lord, because we hold in high value this idea that "wealth equals God's blessing"   ;D  And if you give up all that you have to follow the Lord, folks automatically think you must be doing something wrong!   8)  

I couldn't agree with you more, Candice. Sometimes I feel like joining the Amish community but I don't subscribe to a lot of their beliefs. But i do like their being in the wolrd but not of the world.

Naw.  The Amish are much too old fashioned for me, but to each his own.  ;D  I don't mind the changing of the world.  What I think is an actual problem is that in our country we value so much folks that are sitting on a million dollars.   If you sit on a million dollars the whole country thinks you're lucky.  Not that many folks thinks, "Oh my gosh!!  You have a million dollars and there's extra corn and there's starving people!!    Maybe we should use this extra money to buy that extra corn and ship it over to those starving people!!"  I don't see a whole lot of people think like that.  Many people think it's sooo important to hold up signs at abortion clinics and I keep seeing and hearing about folks that rent signs about homosexuality being a sin, but nobody rents a sign that says, "You have all that extra and there's starving folks in the world--THAT's SIN!"  AT least I haven't seen any.  Because only in America if you have extra we think that you're doing something right and God is blessing you--we don't bother trying to hold the folks with extra accountable to feed the people that are starving to death.  We hold non-Christians accountable for every sin under the sun, but we let Christians sit around on millions and we don't mind it at all.  And I don't see much of people voicing anything about having extra and not seeing their neighbor starving to death   -- I haven't seen any sign of people with qualms about having extra and not feeding our neighbor.  I see plenty of people all concerned about gays and abortions.  I don't see anyone spending any moments holding even wealthy Christians responsible for feeding the millions of lazurous of the world.
(c) 2002 James N. Watkins  "It is tragic that 3,600 unborn babies are aborted every day in this land of freedom. That’s a million each year. But did you know that 24,000 people worldwide die every day from starvation and malnutrition? That’s over 8 million each year. Three of four who die are younger than five years old." :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

I see people make a big deal about abortion and gay people, and I don't see people minding that folks are sitting on money while folks are starving.  And we hail and worship folks that have money and we don't mind that they aren't feeding the poor even when they call themselves Christians.

So, the WORLD thinks we're hypocrits.  We choke on a comel and we swallow a nat.  
  But Jesus' did tell a story about the rich man and a starving man.    .  I begin to think we need to point out sinners so we can feel like saints.  Either that or our priorities are not right.  There's just something wrong.  

AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED!

Peace

Oklahoma Howdy to Candice Cavalier,

Who is this we you keep talking about?   :D  An old saying would add, "Do you have a mouse in your pocket?" - Thus, qualifying the "WE".

I guess that all of us would be rich according to some third world standards, but I don't know many of those rich Christians you are talking about, and I completely reject the "Wealth Gospels" that some of the TV preachers spout.

Most of the Christians I know would be considered to be poor or lower middle class by America's standards, but they collectively manage to send food, medicine, clothes, and missionaries all over the world. I do know of several fairly rich Christians who give large amounts.

I understand that America does more than any other country in the world to help the poor and needy. Did that change? Even my little small and relatively poor church sends supplies and supports missionaries all over the world. I really don't know many rich people, and most of the normal or poor folks I know give about as generously as they can while they are trying to survive.

Candice, what category do you place yourself in? I really doubt that many of the folks here are rich. Do you want to trade computers with me, sight unseen?   ;D

Love In Christ,
Tom

I agree with both you and Candice, BEP. But I do think that there are many Christians in the world who are more ruled by greed than we should be. We are of course human beings and are called to look at the plank in our own eyes everyday.

OKlahoma Howdy to Heidi & Candice,

I'm sure that there are some rich, stingy, and greedy Christians. I was just considering my circle of friends who would probably be considered to be "have nots". I doubt many of them have a clue what it would be like to be rich. I meant no offense, rather some humor about all of those rich folks I don't know.

I was just considering the humor that someone might think I was rich.   :D  There are overwhelming needs and evils at every turn. My post was intended to be good natured. I honestly think there are a large number of Christians who strive to run a good race. Looking at the world and becoming depressed that everything was done in vain should not be done. Instead, I think that Christians should wonder what would happen if nobody was trying to run a good race. Hopefully, the Christian will get back up after each disappointment and finish their race. I know a lot of Christians with very little wealth that run pretty good races.

Love In Christ,
Tom  

:'( :)

 ;D  Sorry, guys.  I'm just being grumpy today.  I forget to be happy for all the wonderful things that are being done and I focus on all the negative things.  Right now I wish I knew of a single person who was very wealthy and gave up all of his wealth to the Lord.  Or I wish that  . . .

Here's the deal.  I'm obsessing because someone is giving away a mansion.  Or raffling it off to raise money to do stuff that's not feeding the poor.  I'm becoming increasingly more obsessed that it doesn't occur to him to feed the poor.  If more Christians were focused on the poor then maybe it would occur to him to shift gears.  No, were all focused on other stuff.  Oh, well maybe the Lord will give me the nerve to say something.

The Church I attend supports several missionaries (to Alaska, Africa, Peru and other locals) who have done just that:  Liquidated everything to serve GOD!

Praise the Lord!  It IS happening!
JN

The Christian foundation did not crumble overnight. The history of bible scholarship since the Reformation is primarily the history of unbelief among scholars, theologians, critics, seminaries and bible schools. The history of mainline denominations since the Reformation is also the history of unbelief in the churches.

Unbelief had its origin in German scholarship of the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries, and names such as Semler and Schleirmacher are prominent as the originators of those who undermined God's word. The virus of German unbelief infected the rest of Europe, then came across to America. All through the 19th century, with the rise of anti-biblicism, there was a battle for the Bible, which the seminaries lost. Thus unbelief entered into the mainline denominations and is now know as "theological liberalism".  This liberalism has now permeated the evangelical and fundamentalist schools through both higher and lower criticism. Today we have men like "Bishop" Spong parading as Christians but in fact "denying the Lord that bought them". Today we have homosexual being "ordained" as priests and bishops, and being applauded for their anti-biblical stance.

The central issue was the authority of God's Word, and America's religious leaders rejected it's authority. This authority was based upon the fact that because God is it's Divine Author, the Bible is not only inspired, but it is also inerrant in every part, and therefore infallible.

The Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches have also done their part in  undermining the authority of the written Word of God for almost two millenia by claiming that "tradition" is equally authoritative to the Word of God! But since tradition comes from fallible men, many of whom were no doubt learned and pious, but also capable of being mistaken, the truths of God's Word were replaced by the dogmas of men. Therefore Mary has been elevated to the position of Co-Redemptrix!

The third aspect of the diminished authority of the Word of God was the introduction of modern bible versions.  Since 1881, when Westcott and Hort introduced their corrupt NT text and the corresponding Revised Version, there has been a steady drive towards discarding the Authorized Version and replacing it with everything from paraphrases to perversions.
Evangelical Christian leaders are largely responsible for this. But evangelical Christians are equally responsible for not seeking the truth behind the propaganda, and finding out the hidden agenda in the attack on the Authorized Version.

There was a time when all English-speaking people [including those living in British Commonwealth countries] recognized only ONE AUTHORITATIVE BIBLE -- the KJV 1611 A.D. That was "THE Bible".  Today, because of the diversity of bible versions, there are diversities of doctrine, and there are divisions among believers. The primary thrust of modern bible versions has been to diminish the authority of the KJV by casting doubt upon numerous passages of Scripture. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance (1980 or newer) is  an excellent source for comparing other translations to the KJV. Today many will argue for a different interpretation on the basis of "Well, my translation says something else". And of course the scholars -- those infallible ikons of modern Christians -- have told us that "the best manuscripts" do not contain this or that or the other Scripture, implying that Christians were misled for over 400 years!

We should never forget that apostasy in Christendom was was foretold in Scripture, and we are seeing the results of apostasy on every side. The Bible has been thrown out of schools, colleges, universities, courts, and most shockingly, seminaries, bible schools and churches. America has been deliberately "secularized" and Christians have stood by watiching. A watered-down "bible" and a watered-down "gospel" is all that can be found in many of the churches of America.  As a result, God has already begun to pour out His judgments on this nation, which once sincerely stood for "In God We Trust", but is now more pagan than many formerly pagan lands.

Because the United States of America had more light and freedom than any other country, the severer will be it's judgment, just as Israel had more light than the heathen nations, and was therefore judged more severely.  "To whom much is given, from him much shall be  required". We are seeing only the tip of the iceberg in the floods and fires and natural disasters that have plagued the USA over the last few decades. There are greater judgments to follow.

North America today is as much a mission field as South America. But the churches have not risen to the challenge and the true Gospel has been "hidden under a bushel".  However, those who know the truth and love the Lord can still be overcomers through prayer and through persistence in freely giving away God's Word and the Gospel to the lost. The mandate to "Go ye into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature" is still in force. Are we up to the challenge?

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

Candice,

I think that JudgeNot and I were almost grumpy once.   ;D  You know that I'm kidding. We all get grumpy and out of sorts, and I think that you picked a good reason to get grumpy. My niece and several others went to Guatemala as part of their Bible University to see if they really wanted to become missionaries. She came back knowing that she wants to be a missionary, but she also brought back a severe eating disorder. She had seen so many hungry people that she felt guilty eating. That took almost 1 1/2 years to get over. She just got married to another Bible student, and they are going to Guatemala with almost nothing. We desperately need young people with fire and desire to address some of the worst problems in the world: (1) Those without Jesus, (2) Those without food, clothing, shelter, medical supplies, etc. My niece now understands that she has to have health to follow her calling. Her husband is a skilled carpenter, and she is good with many crafts. Hold this picture:  their marriage ceremony was in a pasture, and they were both barefoot by choice.   ;D  The entire family will help them, but they do already have shoes.   ;D

Sower,

AMEN BROTHER!! - I enjoyed your post.


JudgeNot,

Brother, I sincerely believe that missions should be a major work of every church. There must be an organized approach, and most of the work should be validated. By that, I mean that the church or individuals should make sure their money and supplies are being used the way they intended. Scams and con games have really hurt many genuine missions in the last years. There are now organizations that validate missions and pass the information on to churches. Several such organizations have been in that business for 50 years or more. It makes me want to do more when I know who really gets the help.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hold this picture:  their marriage ceremony was in a pasture, and they were both barefoot by choice. ;D

  :D



 

Sad but true!  :-[

You're one of our youth who give me hope for the next generation!  :D

The fabric of the home and community and country fell apart just about the time mothers began leaving their children in the hands of the world, while they went seeking work that paid better wages than that of keeping their homes continually guarded for their husbands and children.  We invested in the wrong account, and little wonder we wound up living in a spiritually bankrupt society.

Amen, Shylynne!
Most folks cite removal of prayer from schools, etc.
The point you bring up is often overlooked - but right on the money!
JN

Oklahoma Howdy to Shylynne,

Add one more for agreement. It is probably a fact that many in my generation put themselves in a situation where everyone had to work. I didn't live through the great depression, but my parents did. In looking back, there may have been a thought from those in my generation that we wanted more than what we had when we were children. Well, we got a little bit more, but we sure did pay a horrible price for it. I was lucky with very close family ties, so my children were rarely with anyone who didn't read Bible stories and teach them good things. We probably did have to work 2 or more jobs for the first 5 years of our marriage, but we could have made it on one income had we not decided we had to have a bigger house. We had a second child on the way and an 800 square foot house with a massive $66 monthly payment.   ;D  Well, you know what happened with the bigger house.

This may also be the root cause for the explosion of alcohol and drug abuse, and then so many broken marriages. We would have probably all been better off in a tent.   :D

Love In Christ,
Tom

lol  blackeyepeas

This may also be the root cause for the explosion of alcohol and drug abuse, and then so many broken marriages. We would have probably all been better off in a tent.

my elder neighbor always said to me that the indians were onto something, with a tent you just have to dust it off.

He-he-he.
Butcha - I'm at the age now where down-sizing is the thing to do.  I moved from a 2000 sq ft house to a 1100 sq ft house a few years ago.  My next move will be to either a trailer or a boat.  After that - a teepee may be in order!  ;D

Just picking up on the thread again...Sorry i havn't been more involved, but i've been busy with things around here...anyways. I thank those who have read what i've written and i pray that It will make you think. oh yea...and before i forget...luciferx, you are just supporting my point for what has happened in america. God created ADAM AND EVE, not adam and steve...dude, homosexuality is wrong in an d of itself it is an abomination. God's Word says so and plus, it's just nasty....uggh. Yet this is what America has been reduced to. In our newsletter today at church i wrote this let's see if this will get you to thinking some more:

What a wonderful, magnificent place that the Lord had made for us to live. We are given the trees, the oxygen we breathe, the water to drink, and nature as our playground, but sadly we take for granted the tings that He’s given us. Instead of giving Him the praise and the glory for having given this stuff to us, we just brush Him off to the side often. God, being the gentleman that He is, is certainly disappointed, but He will never force anything upon us. Yet He still loves us. Now, I’m not saying that it is ok to just brush the Almighty aside like a dust bunny. I’m saying that if we are to remain a mighty nation, and we are to remain a nation “Under God” then we must keep God at the forefront of our nation. This business of separation from Church and State went to far when prayer was taken out of schools and when the Bible wasn’t allowed to be read in school. Why is there a sharp decline in today’s morals. Satan has gotten his foothold in this nation and has deceived many. One such example was someone I spoke to a few weeks ago. I ask her if she believed in God and she said, “Why should I?”  Are you Concerned now? With the lack of morals and accountability it gets worse everyday. So let’s unite and pray that our nation would return to the foundation of the Bible and give God the glory for the things He has given us. Will you?

Maybe luciferx, if you would quit watching such mindless waste of television film such as the simpsons, then you may see that through the Lord Jesus Christ, the world will be a free place.

Sometimes we as Christians fall lacking in holding others accountable because we simply turn the other way, Here is the solution to this. TURN TO GOD. Trust Him...Salvation begins with Trust and repentance begins with Trust. Trust in the OT is the same as the NT word for believe. Get this and get it now luciferx, I for one look forward to the day my Lord and Savior comes back to get His children. I pray that the Lord will open up your mind such that you may see His truth.

and an LOL at butcha and blackeyepeas...i never was good at camping, but i love it...here's the cool thing, when we reach to heaven we'll be living in mansions built in Glory. Then and only then shall our camping days be over with and our eternity walking with Christ shall begin. I pray that this message finds you all in good health and high spirits. God Bless

In His Service,
Joshua

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

Joshua,
AMEN!! - Good post that I really enjoyed.

JudgeNot,
It looks like we are thinking on the same wave length. My wife and I are considering a smaller place now. We have an empty nest that needs tons of repairs. A smaller, but well built, trailer sounds like a fairly good answer for us.

Butcha,
With five children, I think you are going to need at least 1,000 square feet.   ;D

I was out of pocket last night with an ailing computer, so I missed LuciferX. ADMIN didn't miss him. It's amazing how hard the devil tries to get to us.


Love In Christ,
Tom

Just speakin from my heart Tom, don't get too excited. I've said what needed to be said, and i'm holding my end of the bargain, now it must be said, will the rest of the Christians on here, hold up their end of the bargain. The ball is multiplying and it is going into other people's courts. Don't drop the ball. I pray that htis finds you in good health and spirits. God Bless

In His Service
Joshua

The devil is what is happenning. He knows his days are short.

Oklahoma Howdy To Joshua,

Brother, it is my desire and determination to use whatever I have left in service to Jesus for the remainer of my days. My computer is one of the ways I had to do this, and it appears that it is ailing more than I am.   :D  I prayed about this, and God has provided a way for me to get another one. I'm praying that problem will be solved in the next couple of weeks. It is down and crashed more than it is up.

God willing, I plan to finish my race, even if it is in a wheelchair. I completely agree that all Christians should stand up and keep standing up until Jesus takes us home. I'm 1,000% positive that all Bible prophecy will be fulfilled precisely, so standing up for Jesus will eventually mean persecution. By the way, that's already started, but it will get worse. That should simply be encouragement to continue.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Too true!