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The Toronto Star is reporting, in an article by a Peter Howell, there, that a new film, Elephant, on the Colorado Columbine school shootings, is being received with "acclaim" at the Cannes Film Festival.

The director, Van Sant, who did Good Will Hunting is portrayed as "openly gay", and that he doesn't want to give any predetermined judgements on the shootings, in the film, preferring, he says,

 "I do have my own ideas about why something like Columbine happened, but some of those things aren't really in the film," said Van Sant, measuring his words. "I was really trying to get at more of a poetic impression, and to sort of allow the audience's thoughts into that impression, rather than to dictate an answer or a reason."

Alluding to the rumor that the two shooters were possibly bullied, and were homosexual lovers, "Elephant" portrays the two teenagers in a shower, kissing each other.


By leaving this portrayal of the Columbine massacre as "amoral" or "antiseptic"(my words), is it not therefore an unspoken endorsement?

Isn't is--ahem--"WRONG" to go around shooting people?  

And, um, isn't it just "WRONG" to participate in homosexuality?

And, if it is, isn't it then just "WRONG" to portray such a massacre in any other light than what it really is, that is, "WRONG"?

But rather, what you have here, evidently, is the massacre being protrayed as "antiseptic", relying instead on the audience to have its own conscience.

Hmmm, let's see.  What was the point of that story, Lord of the Flies??

"Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves..."  ??Matthew 10:16

No way people are going to allow this! It is a slap in the face to the victims of every Terrorist attack that has happened from the past 10-20 years! I normally don’t approve of violence to solve problems, but in Van Sant‘s case, if he goes thru with this, I’m open for a temporary change in principles! Sometime, actions are just so much better then words! Just ask the Money Changer in the Temple...

Yo Van Sant off da heezy!   :D

Oh wait I get it!!! what he's trying to portray is that gays are mass murderers.  If you like to kiss men in the shower then you like to shoot people when you get angry.  


Cool got it.   ;)

Maybe what van Sant might argue here is that he's using perhaps a "parable" format, to leave it up to the viewer to decide.

To me, though, we could apply that same logic to the viewing of, say, pornography.  Even the secular world knows and even enforces that pornography is wrong.  

Strangely, though, when it's presented under a literary or artistic banner, as perhaps a parable, of sorts, then all of a sudden it's okay.

Somehow, dramatizing wickedness, whether its murder, or sexual sin, etc., has just gotta be only of Satan.  

God has two Old Testament figures dramatize particular events--Hosea, to marry a harlot, to demostrate Israel's harlotry, and Ezekiel to lie on one side, and then the other, for many days, to dramatize something(I forget what).

But with van Sant, if we move along a continuum of first, condemning such behavior, as there at Columbine, then, we revise that to a sterile or amoral presentation, at what point do we not then actually begin to "celebrate" such events?  Or, that is, actually begin to "approve" of them, if we don't express our disproval at the beginning??!!  Somehow, this is too much of the "non-discrimination" culture which we have built.  We aren't to "discriminate".

Somehow, dramatizing wickedness without a moral statement or rebuke is to risk endorsing that wickedness.

As a Homosexual, I doubt he will make his own look bad in this. I’m guess the story will go along the lines of they are persecuted and ridiculed for being homosexual by the “evil” conservatives, and these “atrocities” push them over the edge. Classic Wrongdoer is a victim plot. Don’t you just LOVE when they do that. Yeah, you break a ma’s leg for trying to rob your house and murder you, and you get sued for all you have!  Clinton isn’t a womanizer, he just has mental problems because his mother and Grandmother fought a lot. So what if you got in a fight at a Football game, your black ,and that means it isn’t your fault, Society made you this way! God Bless America, where stupidity and sleaziness thrive. Who needs to take responsibility for their actions? We live for the moment! We can go online and say thing we never would in real life, because we have the right, too. Good ol’ America, where everyone who isn’t a middleclass white male is a victim.  >:(

Yes, that's true.  As van Sant is openly gay, it would be difficult to "bite the hand that feeds you".  Of course, he can't legitimately come out, at least yet, with fists swinging, saying gay is good, gay is good, if he's then portraying the same gays as mass murderers, as in this case.  The gross contradiction speaks for itself.  Even so, I imagine, going forward here, that even those sorts of wholesale contradictions will become passe, and the next argument we'll be hearing is, "Okay, so what?  So, two gays go out then and mow down a bunch of people.  So what?  Are you saying that gays are evil then?"   And then, of course, you're suppose to answer, "Oh no!  Whatever gave you that idea!!"

So, of course, all of this is very, very evil.

In Jesus' Name...

I figured since you already have this thread title this would fit well.  I hope you see it soon symphony because this one will really getyou riled(I think).

It turns out the bravo wants to join in the "reality tv" genre and they have a new twist on "the bachelor" show.  They are going to have a gay version where a gay man has 25 men to choose from (as opposed to women of course).  The other kicker here is that not all the men are gay.  Well I don't know about you but it's a good thing this isn't a basic chanel as I find the idea abhornet at best.

This world seems to get more and more like the days of Noah.

Yes, thanks Saved4, that sounds like what i heard on a news broadcast.

Back to the van Sant "Elephant" documentary or film or whatever, then is it fairly well confirmed that the two Columbine murderers were gay "lovers"(albeit a little young to be given that title)?

Are you kiddign me, Noah had it luck! lol, he never had the Anna Nicole Smith Show! And I use the word "show" losely. lol. Any of your poor souls had this displeasure of seeign that waste of Air time?

Anyways, what other details can you give us on this show, saved? Do you have a website for the show, so we can write letters of protest? And we though Mr. Personality was bad!

The Reality show crazy is getting out of hand! Why can't they just go back to sitcoms! I guess it is all about money, liek I said in a prevous thread.

http://www.bravotv.com/  I don't have time to look through it but I'm sure you can find something there.  I heard about it on the radio though so I don't know all the particulars.

As far as the columbine kids I have no idea what their sexual preference was but this is the first I've heard someone try to say they were gay.  I would guess they weren't and the ploy of this movie will be to make straight people look like evil people for not being "accepting" of "different" people.  In the end it's always someone elses fault isn't it?

Here is it:

http://www.bravotv.com/Queer_Eye_for_the_Straight_Guy/

Now that is one twisted show. What a shame.  :(

Something Wicked This Way Comes:

At yours, tibby, they come right out there and say exactly what some of us, here, last summer were saying the Gay community would be ultimately doing:  

"QUEER EYE FOR THE STRAIGHT GUY:  a reality show where five gay men are out to make over the world  one straight guy at a time."

So now, they're coming right out and admitting there is an agenda.

But, of course, Adolf Hitler did even announce his intentions, I believe, in his Mein Kompf, years ealier.  So, no great surprise here.  Not to mention, um...."prophecy" by...um..."Jesus" and um...."et.al." in the Bible??

I wonder now when the gay movement, ultimately, will merge with a nazi-like movement--maybe even with the actual Nazis themselves.  I'm guess the Nazis themselves were predominantly gay--either as submissive "fairies", or as the dominant "Butches", I think they were called.

And everyone here in western "civilizations" say we must run around defending them, hehe.  Boy, what a Trojan Horse.  


Lord help us...  The only way out now--or ever, for that matter--the blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus...

Not a chance. People offent forget Jew ere not the only people on the Nazi hit list. They did treated homosexuals the same way. I don't see the gays getting to much more powerful. Vocal, yes, they get more and more vocal every year, but as for power, they are just getting weaker. Here is Texas, a Constitutional Amendment was just added that says we will not support or recognize Gay unions! The Gays thought it would help these cause to make homosexuality politically correct. It didn’t, it just made them a larger target.

Hmmm, Tibby, that's an interesting take on the current gay issue.  Some "positive" news for a change.  I would like that!!

But, there in TX, I thought it was your right to privacy case that was now before the U.S. Supreme Court, that Sen. Santorum of PA was in the news about a month ago, saying that if the S. Court okays that case, it will open the flood gates to incest, bygamy, pygamy, etc.  The commentators I read all agreed that it was likely the S. Court will okay that TX law.  

However, if it is as you say, that they've passed a law NOT honoring gay marriage, then maybe that's a step in the right direction.  I would like to be surprised for a change.

On the Nazi thing, there've been a number of Net articles, and a book or several on the Nazi/Gay connection.  The so-called persecution of gays in the death camps was only a front, it's been said, to justify the Nazi philosophy of an Aryan Race(they couldn't propigate a new, superior race, if everyone was gay, since gays don't typically reproduce).  But in reality, it appears that much of the behind the scenes Nazi private life was rife with the gay "lifestyle"(hehe, or "death"style).  There was a very convincing series of articles and book about Hitler himself, and having one or more close confidants murdered, I believe, to cover a gay lifestyle.

I'm guessing this is difficult to discern b/c much of the mainline media is pro-gay, so most main media sources would tend to obscure it.  That's my guess.

But your news there is welcome, that's for sure!

I don't have any links or anything but it's been known for quite sometime there was some "fairy dust" sprinkled about the Nazi's.

As far as Texas goes they're a whole other ball game, I mean really "Don't Mess with Texas!" as the saying goes.  Texans are a bit different then the rest of the country.  It's not always a good thing but it's not always a bad one either.

Prayer is all we can really do seeing as God does place those in power, and that would include the supreme court as well.  Maybe he's just setting up things for the end.  Perhaps in this large game of Chess Dad is just about done letting junior think he's going to win as he sets up checkmate.


And to think I only just got bashed a few weeks ago for saying I knew this was so from personal experiences and here it is for all the world to see.  ::sigh:: people  :'(

http://www.bravotv.com/More_Shows/  This is the show that imitates the bachelor the other one is just more gay crap.

I beg to differ about Texas being different. Texas is just like any other state. My father was in the military for most of my life, so we lived in many different places. Texas is just like any other state. 36 state have already passed these laws. Texas is SLOW to act in comparison to other states. We the

Gays hate Nazis. Nazis hate gays. Don’t forget, Nazis are right wingers.

What do you mean, "We the gays hate Nazis", tibby?

As I said before here, the Nazi persecution of gays in the death camps was apparently a cover, either intentionally or unconsciously, for the gay tendencies of the Nazis themselves.  Yes, the Nazis were "right wingers", in many senses, perhaps--nationalism, for instance, as compared to the socialists.  There were some 42 parties to choose from, when Hitler won, in 1932!

Yes, Saved4, prayer and walking with Jesus.  Thank you.  Yours, "Perhaps in this large game of Chess Dad is just about done letting junior think he's going to win as he sets up checkmate...", probably says it all.

Everything is working according to His schedule, anyway.  Thank you, Lord.

lol, sorry for the typo, thanks for point it out.

Gays are bad, we agree, nazis are bad, again, we agree. But Nazis being gay? I don’t know… I’m a little skeptical about that. I mean, they didn’t decide to attack the fags in the middle of the war as a cover up for there homosexual tendencies, the anti-gay stand was in their party platform! I find it hard to believe the entire party was gay. Sure, there may have been some gay nazis, I’m sure there where, but come on, we are talking about a group that is anti-gay by nature!

Right...

(http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20030616/mdf299454.jpg)

Did you post that picture for the sole propose of confusing me?  ;D

HAHAHAHAHA  :D Symph somtimes you're too much.

Too bad hulk was never taller than a house but oh well.

(http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/avatars/zanimals/zanimals31.gif)

SAVED4EVER said: I don't have any links or anything but it's been known for quite sometime there was some "fairy dust" sprinkled about the Nazi's.

ROFLOL You Get  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Saved4EVER said: gay crap

LOL  ;D

The agenda is sin. A sin agenda is still sin whether gay, straight, or what have you.

True, Ollie.  Thank you.

But still, this is the first time that specific sin, to my knowledge has regularly and increasingly received "official" recognition--both in corporate and commercial circles worldwide(in their hiring policies, which can be accessed online), and of course in government ones as well.

It's not sin to be a woman, black, handicapped, etc.  And they've smuggled it in under that protection.   Women, blacks and the handicapped should all be roundly insulted (little wonder that rumor has it now that atheists may be adopting the term "bright", in the same way as the word "gay" was thirty years ago.  No one seems to remember what Josef Stalin's atheism in fact meant for literally millions in Russia...)

Lucifer is equated with "brightness".

And many in the gay movement are highly educated, well-heeled.  One of the guys on that Bravo TV show Queer Guys has graduate degrees in Fine Arts/Finance, etc.

This is the first time to my knowledge in recorded history that a sin has received wholesale, specific public protection and endorsement--increasingly now, I understand, according to John Leo in last week's U.S. News magazine, ruminations on pain of criminal prosecution, in Europe, if you speak out against it.

This is the first time in recorded history that specific sin has received specific endorsement, collectively, by both the public and private sectors.  I'm not sure that even the Romans or Greeks perpetrated an official policy along these lines, like this--or any other "official" governement down through the ages.

Yes, I agree and it could be the very transgression that will end the lonsuffering of God toward man as it seemed to do at other points of man in time. Christians should continue to be instant in season and out of season, preaching and abiding in the word of God always. Then they will be ready when He comes again to claim them and in the meantime perhaps snatch some from the coming fires.



Are we the people through our representatives legislating laws that are anti-God, anti-Christ. The day is probably coming if not already here when God's people will be forced to disobey the law of the land because the laws are not of God.

Is not God and His Christ usually described as "brightness"?
Is not Lucifer, Satan, that serpent usually described with darkness?
2 Thessalonians 2: 8.  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
 9.  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

 

They are probably active in all walks of life. I suspect the majority of them are low keyed and not demonstrative and flaunting as Hollywood and the media has painted their image. Therefore one would not know their sexual preferences by their just going about the daily routines of making a living etc..

It could happen in America.

What of Sodom and Gommorah? Was there any official policy of civil government there? I will have to study it again.

Just as a note...Herman Goering, head of the Nazi's Luftwaffe, was openly gay.  Even sported a pink uniform/boots, can't remember exactly which though.

Yes, all, it seems a safe bet much of the Nazi brass were gay, tho ostensibly that was even a category in the death camps.

I'm understanding there were Nazi "butches", who preyed on the effeminate types(prisoners, etc.).

I'm guessing maybe that's why they had homosexuals as one of the six camp categories--in order to prey on them?

And that Hitler himself was gay, and murdered in order to cover his tracks--it was considered counterproductive to the promotion of a superior Aryan race(large families).

I'm guessing little of this is allowed now in our own popular media b/c of a sympathy or identification with the gay cause, among the media.

Isn't it ironic that if homosexuality can be connected to 'good' then it's considered proof that homosexuality IS good. If homosexuality can be connected to 'bad' then it's just the homosexual population being picked on?  ::)


~STDAdvisor online -- December 2000

Symphony,
http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm/include/detail/storyid/174917.html (http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm/include/detail/storyid/174917.html)
http://www.fathersforlife.org/lively.htm (http://www.fathersforlife.org/lively.htm)
http://www.abidingtruth.com/_docs/resources/9922658.pdf (http://www.abidingtruth.com/_docs/resources/9922658.pdf)
Just for further reading... ;D

Thank you, sincereheart.

Yes, okay, those sites too tell me more than I ever wanted to know.

By the way, there are other trends occurring too.  I just finished listening to a Harvard Christian woman who runs her own watchdog business, on these new electronic IDs, http://www.nocards.org/welcome/index.shtml, which will replace bar codes.  Walmart a big proponent.  I saw articles both in New Yorker magazine, and U.S. News, this last week, echoing exactly what she's been researching for four years now.

I'm guessing that different or independent trends like these--immorality, IDs in commerce,etc.--will tend to cancel each other out, for the Christian, going forward here.  That is, we'll be so busy starving to death b/c we won't be able to buy or sell, that the gay thing won't even be an issue(sort of like if you hit your thumb with a hammer, just go ahead and hit the other thumb too, that way the first one won't hurt anymore, thus "cancelling" it out).

   ???

Wow anybody read 1984 by Orwell?

As far as the gay thing. It is wrong and I do not appreciate the media sneaking pro-gay material on the TV when the kids are watching cartoons. I do not think our schools are a forum for the state to dictate sexual orientation to my kids. I am fully prepared to face the wrath of the following statement...


GAY IS WRONG AND IS SPITTING IN THE FACE OF GOD.
God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.

Jim